When they convict a man for insulting Christianity or Judaism, I'll acknowledge that they have a case. From Reuters, with thanks to Christopher Zentner:
DUESSELDORF, Germany (Reuters) - A German court on Thursday convicted a businessman of insulting Islam by printing the word "Koran" on toilet paper and offering it to mosques.The 61-year-old man, identified only as Manfred van H., was given a one-year jail sentence, suspended for five years, and ordered to complete 300 hours of community service, a district court in the western German town of Luedinghausen ruled....
Manfred van H. printed out sheets of toilet paper bearing the word "Koran" shortly after a group of Muslims carried out a series of bomb attacks in London in July 2005. He sent the paper to German television stations, magazines and some 15 mosques.
Prosecutors said that in an accompanying letter Manfred van H. called Islam's holy book a "cookbook for terrorists."
He also offered his toilet paper for sale on the Internet at a price of 4 euros ($4.76) per roll, saying the proceeds would go toward a "memorial to all the victims of Islamic terrorism."
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of, mates. Islam is the insulter with its methods. Weal weasely German jie-naz
No fatwa against him yet?
Will no islamocleric take up his case in the mideast to rakeup passions a wee bit?
Will German embassies and flags not burn??
How about the boycott of german goodies?
Awwww....
/Sarcasm off
Osama Bin Laden Toilet Paper on Ebay (not the same guy)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Toilet-Paper-Funny-muslim-muhammad_W0QQitemZ6254780439QQcategoryZ4280QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
One would be certainly unlikely to be convicted for insulting Christianity or Judaism in any European country.
In point of fact, you'd be lucky to allowed to confess to either of those religions in public. A 74-year-old Zambian man was recently threatened with arrest by police in London for carrying a placard with quotations from the Bible on it.
He was told he was:
The fellow listed in Bohemond's link above also produces Mohammad toilet paper (yes, the one with the turban bomb) and a tee shirt with the same depiction.
http://www.jeremyinc.com/muhammad%20toilet%20paper/muhammad%20toilet%20paper.html
It is time to make signs "Jews are apes and pigs, the viliest of creatures" and parade them in the streets, and in front of embassies, city halls, churches, mosques and synagogues. Get arrested, use non-violent resistance. Then at trial, let the evidence show the source material for the hate speech, "Uh , no, your honor, this didn't come out of Mein Kampf, I just copied it from this little book here with this intricate calligraphy on it." "May I see that book, please."
Artists have insulted Christianity just as much and had their work on display in galleries. (They never seem to have the balls to insult Islam though).
The guy should also have included the correct instructions to use the paper with the left hand....perhaps then, the Muslims wouldn't have been so offended.
It's a shame that when Muslims do actually use the Bible itself as toliet paper, there is no outcry from the ROP.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?
ARTICLE_ID=44324
What would Martin Luther say now? Some welcome ant-dhimmitude from the Vatican:
Vatican to Muslims: practice what you preach
Don't mess with the Swiss Guards, they aren't all for show.
The Germans build a great car body, but they just can't get anything right when it comes to their body politic.
The problem with equal opportunity equal rights no discrimination etc. blah blah blah laws is that Islam is the only entity that needs to be criticized, i.e. the only one that can't or hasn't ever withstood critcism.
Germans have never been known for their sense of humor.
Unless you count Nietzsche.
But they turned him on his head, mistook his paradoxical jokes for straight-faced guidebooks (with the aid of his Nazi-sympathizing sister who censored his posthmously p-ublished writings to appeal to the brownshirts), and ended up the Socratic figure of modern philosphy (even as he also mocked Socrates)- the gadfly destroyed to preserve the gods of the tribe.
Schadenfreude is as close as they get.
Ach!
Pathetic, politically correct dhimmis. The Germans have rightly had the holy living crap kicked out of them twice in the last century for their demonstrations of national psychosis. That might explain why they have no spines left. They hope that such displays of pro-islamic tyranny will gain them favor with their future muslim masters. Idiots. They deserve whatever happens to them.
The Germans invented socialism, so it is understandable that they engineer some enforcement teeth into their local Islam operation.
MORE KORANS MORE HADITHS MORE SIRATS MORE MOSLEMS MORE ISLAM MO' MO!
They coulda forced their Moslems to sneak around and murder the insulting guy just like in the good old days, but no, they had to do it clinically and via the proper bureaucratic channels. If the Germans aren't careful, they're gonna take the bloodlust fun outta the Islam... and that could make the Moslems angry.
OT:
another sign of the Vaticans increasing hostility to Islam
read it all:
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060223/2006-02-23T175457Z_01_L2369100_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-VATICAN-MUSLIMS-DC.html
note the language being used. its not exactly diplomatic speak.
just thought i'd point this out , as it IS an interesting development. Since no political body is standing up for Christians in the Muslim world, it looks as if the Vatican is stepping in to speak out about it.
ack - sorry - i just noticed that Lisa pointed out that story too.
my mistake.sorry.
"Don't mess with the Swiss Guards, they aren't all for show."
despite the funny costumes , they actually really ARE a bunch of fearsome warriors. Swiss special forces types - the creme de la creme of the Swiss army. And bearing in mind that self-defence and gun ownership is engrained into the Swiss psyche from birth, you wouldnt want to mess with those guys.
archduke,
those costumes aren't funny, they are artistic masterpieces designed by none other than that Renaissance maestro, Signor Buonarotti, better known by his first name, Michelangelo. Within the last 1-2 years, I was watching a program on PBS, History Channel, or the like, about the Swiss Guards. Behind the facade of medieval weaponary and uniforms, they possess all the 21st century sophistication of modern military and intelligence operations, albeit without cruise missles, B-2 stealth bombers or nuclear powered submarines, but they do have plenty of the James Bond toys necessary to protect the Pope and the Vatican.
It is not suprising that now the Vatican is also steping up to the plate more on the issue of dealing with the Muslim world in regards to its treatment of the Christians living in the Muslim countries. After hearing about what has been happening in both Packastan and Nigeria as of late, the Church is letting the Muslim world know that the Church is keeping a very close eye on the tense situations as far as the bad treatment of Christians. The Muslim community has to stop acting like a bunch of hypocrits in the respect department. Respect is a two-way street.
I will expect to see the prisoner appear on Amnesty International's prisoner of conscience list and fully expect that people all over the world will be writing letters to Germany not to put people in prison for their conscience.
Lisa,
Never knew that Michelangelo designed the uniforms that the Swiss Guards wear. That is new to me. I know that they just celibrated a milestone aniverssary of that force. If there is any history info about them, please do pass it along, because the history interests me. Thank you.
Celsius said,
"The guy should also have included the correct instructions to use the paper with the left hand....perhaps then, the Muslims wouldn't have been so offended.
It's a shame that when Muslims do actually use the Bible itself as toliet paper, there is no outcry from the ROP."
My friend you seem to be mistaken in the belief that muslims use toilet paper. Mohamed the shaitan instructed his followers to use their "left" hand and the following to clean their bungholes--->rocks, leaves, sand, robes, turbans etc etc...no mention is ever made of toilet paper, or clam shells or OH WHATS THE USE. ITS MUSLIM SCIENCE MAN!!! ITS BETTER THAN SLICED BREAD, MOHAMED WAS A GENIOUS!
I recently returned form a trip to Lebanon and was taken to an apartment my cousin rented out to a group of Saudi "business" men. He said he had to show me the mess. I was totally appalled by what I saw! Apparently these mohamedans tried to write their names on the walls of the bathroom with...lets just say it wasn't crayola. However, fresh clean and unused rolls of toilet paper were in the cupboards.
Sanitary aint it...i wonder what Saudi Arabia smells like...probably a-lot like what yemen, kuwait or sharjah(UAE)smell like.
These people are not normal by any stretch of the imagination, that is why they are called muslims.
Shunkleash (PBUH)
Allora, Regazza di gatta grande 13106
The Vatican website has dedicated web page with links to further pages of information concerning the Swiss Guards, including the history of the uniform. I stand corrected:
Skunkleash,
Too bad corn wasn't known in the 7th Century Arabian peninsula, there would have been yet another "revelation."
Skunkleash, those Saudis are some whacky party animals. In a Moslem sorta way.
But you are so right. Protocol teaches that one should never touch a Moslem with the left hand. This makes no sense because, being an Infidel, I use toilet paper not the fingers on my left hand to wipe. But Sharia beckons and Moslem supremacism prevails, so whatever.
Naturally, when I'm introduced to a Moslem, or a potential Moslem, I shake with the right and do the double-hand deal where I place my left on the suspect's right wrist.
If there's a grimace and a recoil, voila!, I've just identified a Believer. And, in the same transaction, I've also let him know where I stand. That's when I corner my victim and begin flipping through photos of my pig farm operation. Between the left hand touch and the lurid pig pen photos, he goes gray at the gills. His left hand stays dusky, though. Gotta admire a man who will show his true colors.
Is this really a surprise coming from Germany, anymore than the Irving case in Austria?
Shunkleash,
When I read the article, I just about had shaken my head in disbelief. You mean that the founder of Islam taught how to go to the bathroom? Good grief, I just do not understand these folks.
"German court convicts man for insulting Islam"
This, to me, raises the intriguing question of whether an ideology can actually be "insulted". Can an ideology take offense? Feel ashamed? Hang it's head? Experience emotional distress?
No - I don't think so. Of course, the question of whether Muslims can feel insult is a different issue altogether. But I think the two issues ought to be clearly separated in this debate.
This court decision begs the question if any German newspaper ever published a GWB cartoon in which beliefs of evangelicals were insulted. It also begs the question whether the movie "The Blues Brothers" was ever shown in Germany. Satire insults, isn't that the point?
APF
LOL
You are on form today I see, keep it up.
When I read the article, I just about had shaken my head in disbelief. You mean that the founder of Islam taught how to go to the bathroom? Good grief,
Yup, there are numerous rules in Islamic sharia instructing one how to take a piss or a dump, I kid you not.
Suzan, the rule I never understood was about toilets can not face Mecca. Does that mean the centerline of the toilet can not bisect Mecca? If it does, a man standing is peeing towards MEcca and sitting is dumping towards MEcca.
Suzan, the rule I never understood was about toilets can not face Mecca. Does that mean the centerline of the toilet can not bisect Mecca? If it does, a man standing is peeing towards MEcca and sitting is dumping towards MEcca.
If you sit sideways, you are not dumping towards Mecca. And I think that's what they counsel nowadays :) Of course to the really fanatical ones, just using a Western toilet is haram. They must squat and use the hole in the ground in order to properly imitate the prophet.
Lisa
Thanbks for the Link. Interesting reading. The Vstican deanding reciprocity. Great.
Sadly I feel that is all this is a little too little and too late. Most of the Christians in Arab/muslim countries such as Iraq, "Palestine", Yemen, Somalia etc, have already packed their bags and left. The rest are just waiting for a visa.
So what in effect will happen is that muslim countries will agree to protect non-existent Christians in their countries (the task of virtually eliminating Christianity having been completed), while requiring us to abide by that agreement for tens of millions of muslims in the West.
NO. I'm afraid all his is too late and in effect only helps the muslim cause. Something more robust is required.
"I recently returned form a trip to Lebanon and was taken to an apartment my cousin rented out to a group of Saudi "business" men. He said he had to show me the mess."
in my younger, student days, i had a similar experience. i worked at a London hotel and had to clean out a room after Saudi "businessmen".
lets just say that the turds werent in the toilet bowl.
I'll bet they're making him go through some type of counselling/treatment too(re-education/brainwashing). I'll also bet the trial resembled an old Soviet show-trial-- making him acknowledge a lie as "truth" and submitting to the subjective arbitrary definition of the "law".
It happens all the time, depending on who the politically correct "enemy of the people" is at that particular(arbitrary) point in time.
That's how collectivism works.
Who's next?
Without Truth, justice does not exist.
suzan -> al sistani's website tells you in exquisite detail how to go to the toilet...
have a read here:
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/menu/3/inside/9.htm
The comment above by "archduke" on the non-use of the toilet is not surprising. The good Muslim must not defecate into still water. You can find this in Qaradawi's little volume on the haram and halal. At MGU, Moskovskij Gosudarstvennij Universitet, where I once spent a month, I was surprised to find in Korpus B (Building B), at that time turned over to Arab students, that the same phenomenon could be observed: the toilet bowl, and not in the bowl, but right beside the bowl, on the floor, the evidence that someone was being a loyal Muslim. The Russians seemed to have no idea. I did not either, at the time. I ascribed it all to one or two individuals.
One wonders how this prohibition, which might have made sense in 7th century Arabia, where water was so scarce, is gotten around in other places?
Any hoteliers have an answer?
Don Miguel-
Are you equating a sentence in Austria for a guy (Junior Aryan Irving) who PROMOTES a totalitarian genocidal pagan despotism- and defied that country's self-defensive laws, which were draw up after they personally suffered from the "Anschluss" takeover of Austria by the militant form of that pagan cult (Nazism),- with the conviction of a guy in Germany who OPPOSES a totalitarian genocidal "theocratic" despotism and is jailed because the Germans do not know enough about Islam to recognize it as proto-Nazism with a "God" to prop its followers up eternally?
OT: Michael Savage just publicly stated:
People just don’t understand Islam because it’s a complicated subject. I have read the history of Islam. Mohammed himself would never have approved of what has been done with his faith. He never wanted to be set up as a deity. At its best, Islam is a beautiful religion. It teaches against blood sacrifice, for example, and prohibits many other bad things. We all understand that Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity, Mohammed said that he was the successor to Abraham and Jesus, which of course is blasphemy to Jews and Catholics. But Mohammed never wanted to impose the faith on others. That started with Abu Bakr, after Mohammed died. Abu Bakr was the one who perverted Islam and changed the religion’s goal to conquering others. Abu Bakr is the one who brought violence into the religion.
Now, Michael, or should I say, Dr. Savage, if you read in order to be able to pontificate, you must also try to do a complete survey and to try to understand the content. Don’t just look at the pretty words and dream up patent self-serving bullshit, you coward. Or, is it that you lied about actually having read the history because of intellectual laziness. We can understand that, but please shut the hell up on the subject of Islam.
Always bragging about being an actual scientist. Always implying what a steely eyed genius he is. And tonight he comes out of the closet as just another bigmouth coward and moron. If this guy is our leading spokesman on the dangers of Islam, we’re done.
Dr. Savage indeed. I don't know how many dumbasses Berkeley has put out, but add one more to that distinguised list.
What's with Germans and Austrians, jailing people
for exercising their right to free speech? Shitting
on the Koran or denying the Holocaust may be tasteless, but surely not felonies?!
APF,
Is that the same Michael Savage who I once caught during a long boring drive on the AM dial? My recollection was that he had not a single positive word to say about Islam or its founder.
That just shows how deep the pathology of PC runs: even Mike Savage can't quite shake himself of its spell: he can't quite bring himself to critically condemn Islam to its roots. Forbidding critical condemnation of Islam qua Islam is one of the 5 Pillars of Western PC. Only the few, the proud and the sane are able to knock down that Pillar: we are still a minority -- let's hope our numbers grow.
That just shows how deep the pathology of PC runs: even Mike Savage can't quite shake himself of its spell: he can't quite bring himself to critically condemn Islam to its roots. Forbidding critical condemnation of Islam qua Islam is one of the 5 Pillars of Western PC. Only the few, the proud and the sane are able to knock down that Pillar: we are still a minority -- let's hope our numbers grow.
Finally, one can post on this thread again - after all the interest has subsided.
Skunkleash, that was some experience. Is this something unique to the Saudis, who seem to lead the way in being the ultimate troglodytes, or is that something common to Arabs across the world - Saudi, Oman, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Morocco, et al? And does this practice spill over (in a manner of speaking) to the non-Arab portions of the ummah?