"Islam is coming to Denmark"

Islam is the antithesis of Judeo-Christianity. The antithesis of Judeo-Christianity is evil. Ergo islam is evil. QED.

The God of the Bible is not the same as the god of the Koran.

A true poster child for immigration control.

>The God of the Bible is not the same as the god of
>the Koran.

Sure he is...its just in the christian bible, his name starts with the letter D in some verses and S in other verses.

Too bad the other side of that card read "TO GET ITS ASS HANDED TO IT"

Big Kitty-Cat Girl,

You are so right, girlfriend. The "god" of the Koran is Satan. When you read the Koran, replace the word "Allah" with the word "Satan" and the whole thing will make sense.

Big Kitty-Cat Girl,

You are so right, girlfriend. The "god" of the Koran is Satan. When you read the Koran, replace the word "Allah" with the word "Satan" and the whole thing will make sense.

"Islam is coming to Denmark". Like the tsunami came to Indonesia and earthquakes came to Pakistan. This is like the warning label on cigarettes.

Alright, WHY IS THIS(and everything else) HAPPENING????

ANSWER-- HUMANISM DEMANDS IT. The New World Order is REAL(research it BEYOND the wacko-sites). It is ROOTED in Humanism. The Jihadis are resisting it.
We are living in a PSYCHOTHERAPUTIC STATE, it is expanding, it seeks domination of the world. It is seen as the ANSWER TO CONFLICT(war).

But, ya gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.

But, but. Humanism is COERCED ALTRUISM. We are expected to sacrifice ourselves to save the emotionally disturbed muslims.
Humanism is Marxism REVISED.

No BS, it's a 99.9999999999999999999999% probability. Therefore, A FACT. The question is not if anymore, only a fool denies it, or someone too damn busy to pay attention.

Isabellathecrusader

That is true, the Muslim god is a false god, the Koran is false scripture, and Mohammed is a false prophet. Truth is; allah is Satan. I think if my memory is correct, Islam got started in the year, 666.

in psychotherapeutic terms..islam is in for one massive deflation..

bigcatgirl13106,

Islam is evil. There's no doubt about that. The question now is whether Western Civilization will succumb to it.

Isabella, I think you're projecting your crusader tendencies on what you believe is the god of the Muslims.

Little primer here... God (created everything, the air we breath the food we ate, us, Jesus, you name it)

god - any other diety which people revere and pray to

Glad to be of help.

Muslims pray to God. They call God (neither a he nor a she) "Allah" Now, if that "God" is a false god because you believe Jesus, created by God, is God, well.. I can't help you there.

Cat girl, the only thing evil in here is the smell of abject hatred and the stinch of bigotry. Try opening a window and letting in some fresh air, for pete's sake.

All y'all. Check out the film "Turning Muslim in Texas". It will give you a new perspective hopefully on Islam in America. It's not a threat but a test of your ability to be tolerant of people that are different from you.

You can find the film here. It's pure delight
I'm off to have myself some barbecued beef.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=islam

Isky, you can't even help yourself. How can you expect to help anyone else?
"... God (created everything, the air we breath the food we ate, us, Jesus, you name it)"
In that sense God IS our "father" since He created us. Careful Isky, you sound blasphemous.

What a pity so many of you have nothing new to offer but the same old, tired, worn out lines.

First, you attack Muhammad, then not satisfied with the result, you claim the devil is the god of muslims. But if a single muslim expresses hatred and contempt for you, you claim their religion preaches violence.

It is you that incite and instigate violence, much more viscerally than a simpleton's cartoon. You have so much hatred and contempt for people different from you that you accuse them of praying to satan.

Richard Ramirez and Aleister Crowley would be proud.

isKANdaria:

Islam is a cult created by a human MAN from lies and deception, nothing more.

I don't have to define it as evil. But what would you call the worst lie ever perpetuated in human history?

Muslims of good intent should become apostates today, tomorrow and everyday hereafter.

Welcome to the modern age. Free yourselves of the tyranny of barbaric 7th century dogma. We would welcome you.

The fact that Freedom of Speech is what is arousing the world to see Islam for what it really is, is a poetic irony that we all will appreciate when it's written in the history books and the Mullahs are nothing but a bad memory.

To 80% of the world, Mohammed is nothing more than a historical figure who just happens to be the founder of yet another religion. To understand this religion, we must be able to analyze and discuss freely the historical Mohammed. Yet Muslims protest that we are not free even to depict Mohammed as such depictions may lead to idolatry. Muslims thereby insist we unconditionally accept a mythical image of Mohammed free of historical scrutiny, which in effect elevates Mohammed to a position of idolatry and perhaps above Allah himself.

itCANdiarrhea..

..you've been logged.

Bohemund, you cannot morph God into human form (oops, did I actually say that!?) You can't attribute human qualities of the creation to the Creator. Just because God gave you genitals doesn't mean God has genitals. The fact that you have a father doesn't mean God is a father and you are his child. If you believe this to be true, what image is God? Is he male and female morphed together, or is God only male? Carefully think of your answer.

God is indescrible. God has no sex, no children, no offspring. God is not your father, God is your CREATOR.

hate to sound so brash in response to ALL of these signs but Islam needs to LEAVE Dal ul-Harb. If so many Muslims are enfuriated by the opinions portray in twelve rather benign cartoons - they need to leave and leave soon.

I for one do not have problem with Muslims until I start to see storm clouds on the horizon telling me that Islamic Umma intents to take over our societies through pressure and surrender.

Sorry - I burned my white flag a long time ago and I do not surrender and I am proudly anti-dhimmi. Furthermore - I am also begining to personally boycott known Muslim owned businesses.

If the Islamic Umma is willing to collectively boycott western trade, there is no longer any reason to ever do business with Islamic elements ever again.

Muslims who are offended by the critical opinions of others need to either tolerate and recognize the rationale of critical opinion - or leave Dar ul-Harb and never return.

Isky, (you may call me Bo), you haven't answered my question. PLease be good enough to do so before we go on to other topics. I'd hate for you to be accused of not defending your faith as the Q'uran commands, so I will restate my question here:
You said "...God has not children.. sons, daughters, aunts, uncles or otherwise." So when Jesus calls God His father accoriding to you, he is a liar? Then the Q'uran is wrong for calling Him a prophet of God. A true prophet is never wrong. If Jesus is right and God IS His father, then the Q'uran is wrong and Mohammed is a liar. But then Mohammed was wrong when he thought Allah had three daughters, right? Then he said he was deceived by Satan. Except when was a true prophet of God ever deceived by Satan?

What is needed here is an enterprising person to produce and offer sale (anonymously via the Internet, for obvious reasons) the following products: "Mohammed Birdcage liner" "Mohammed Pooper-scooper" "Mohammed Urinal mat" and last but not least, "Mohammad Toilet Paper".

the troll above has reared its ugly head again -- how interesting - this drone uses the exact same line as hatshepsut and others -- i.e. 'How sad -- this site is the true terrorist site --- you're spreading so much hatred of my peaceful religion..." blah blah blah...

KT, Hatshepsut, Iskandaria, Ispanan, etc... Separated at burp? I wonder...

Sure, Quantum, as soon as all the others leave "dar al Islam". Isn't that actually what started the row?

Oh, yeah, isKANdaria,
Americanized islam is corrupted and pacified. Hehe, they've accepted the anti-literalist(Pragmatist/leftist) view that if they don't agree with something that is written down(like the koran, hadith, sira)and the Constitution), it REALLY DOES NOT MEAN WHAT IT SAYS, and lo and behold; the ANTI-LITERALIST can tell us what it REALLY means!! Hahaha.

BinLadean speakS the TRUTH. Something that is TABOO in the Pragmatic Humanist VIRTUAL REALITY.

And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (Luke 4:5-8)

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan.

Mohammed OTH accepted the deal.

Mahdi, the gillotine was invented by a french aristocrat. Can you guess his name? I bet you have implements with his namesake in your medicine cabinet today.

Case in point, let's not play the beheading game. Is that supposed to be a sore point. We have criminals disemboweling people across this country daily, so what's your point?

So, if you keep projecting HATRED, eventually, the law of reciprocity says you should get some HATRED back. Interesting theory..

So, perhaps you should be more JESUS-LIKE and project some of that luv (xoxox) to your enemies instead of pillaging hords. What a thought! Might you get a different result?

Nah, that wouldn't work.

Isky, as referring to God being our Father, you are thinking in purely human, physical terms. You have to try and rise above that and think in spiritual terms as God is a spirit. You are limiting God by saying that He cannot appear to us in human form, i.e., that there are things which God cannot do. God is limitless, there is nothing He cannot do, even to the pont of dying on the cross.

"So, perhaps you should be more JESUS-LIKE and project some of that luv (xoxox) to your enemies instead of pillaging hords. What a thought! Might you get a different result?

Nah, that wouldn't work."

Don't insult our collective intelligence with that kind of nonsense.

from the filth stained Muslim drenched brain of a certain poster above: "Cat girl, the only thing evil in here is the smell of abject hatred and the stinch of bigotry."

If anyone smells a stinch, it's this Muslim winch..!

Isky said "as soon as all the others leave "dar al Islam". Isn't that actually what started the row?"
No, it was when Islam placed the rest of the world in the dar-al-harb and declared jihad on it, trying to force the world to convert to Islam by warfare.

So isKandaria, is it fun living a lie? Pretending something is something it is not?
You can invent your religion, how cool. Ignorance is bliss, ain't it?

Sure as HELL IS.

Jsla, sounds like you want to maim, rape and pillage, minimally that you are near a fit of rage. I thought you said this is the character of a muslim. What blind, visceral hatred you have *hahahahah*

Careful now, watch your step as the next one promises to be a "dousie".

isKANdaria:

Let me get this straight, because I want to be very clear on certain matter: Are you a Muslim convert living in Texas, or just a cage-rattler?

How many of you even know what Iskandaria is?
No matter. To the site drone who felt it necessary to tell me "I've been logged".. for what? Coming here freely expressing my opinion? For harming no one? For engaging in discussions? Can you not even tolerate freedom of speech in this blog, but you blog about muslim intolerance?

My presence here is simply a TEST of your ability to maintain that which you preach here. To see if you can be fair. To see if you can be just. To see if you CAN practice the democratic principles YOU preach.

We'll see... by the way, never look a gift horse in the mouth. You, sir, are also being monitored.

Isky, I know you're having fun responding to all the others, but I must remiond you that by ignoring my post on whether Jesus or Mohammed is a liar you have failed to defend your faith as the Q'uran commands you to do. Consider your reply carefully. I know it's Friday and you have to go to prayers at the mosque and be seperated from the males like a good slave.

Hammer, yes, I am a muslim convert, no I don't live in Texas, but about 200,000 muslims do (in Dallas).

Look at the film, get a real qur'an and read it without interpretation, and see for yourself why this religion is the fastest growing one today.

Happy trails, folks.

Man to face charges for printing Koran on toilet paper

Associated Press
Feb. 10, 2006 07:10 AM

BERLIN - A German businessman who printed the name of the Koran on toilet paper and offered the rolls for sale to mosques and media will face trial for disturbing the peace.

The man, identified only as Manfred van H., is scheduled to go on trial Feb. 23 at a court in Luedinghausen in western Germany, Jochen Dyhr, a spokesman for judicial authorities in nearby Muenster, said Thursday.

The businessman last summer printed sheets of toilet paper with the sentence "Koran, the Holy Qur'aen" and sent them to about 15 mosques, television stations and magazines.
in an accompanying letter, authorities say, he asserted that Islam's holy book is a "cookbook for terrorists" that calls for acts of violence.

He proposed that a "memorial to all victims of Islamic terror" be set up, financed by sales of the toilet paper - an offer that prosecutors say he also posted on the Internet.

The businessman's offer led to criminal complaints and telephone death threats against him.

Prosecutors argue that the man's actions overstepped the legally guaranteed freedom to criticize other religions. They say he has cited his right to freedom of opinion and artistic expression, and said his aim was to provoke rather than actually sell the toilet paper."

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0210QuranTP10-ON.html

isKANdaria:

Well then, allow me to reveal some bad news for you and the Muslims of Dallas:

I am now a citizen of Texas.

This is where I moved to very recently. You see -- I think ahead. I always think ahead.

There will be no quiet Dhimmitude in Texas while I'm alive.

I doubt it's the fastest growing religion, Humanism beats it by a long-shot. No wonder with the government-sanctioned Humanist madrassas called "schools".

Posted by the filth stained troglodyte: "Jsla, sounds like you want to maim, rape and pillage, minimally that you are near a fit of rage."

Only a Muslim drenched brain could infer that from what I wrote -- But thanks for illustrating how precarious your hold on reality is, you pathetic winch!

The Muslim specimens that come here to post are the BEST! Perfect in situ examples of the deranged mentality of the verminous goblin idolators known as "Muslims".

Thanks Isky,

I hope my crusader tendencies are showing. ;)

Don't be fooled guys, (as if you could,) by the constant drone of the Islamic affirmation machine.

"You have so much hatred and contempt for people different from you..."

"You have so much hatred and contempt for people different from you..."

"You have so much hatred and contempt for people different from you..."

Isn't it amusing that we are getting to them? They never spent too much time on our site before but now they are all over the place. 'Must have touched a nerve or something. And I think they are panicking because there's been an awful lot of wishful thinking going on. Unfortunately for their big plan, they jumped the gun before they were ready to take over. They don't have the power. They think they can fake us out by bluffing. But remember...Muslims aren't allowed to gamble. It's a sin. So we will always be one up on them when it comes to playing poker.

I do have to laugh. A handful of trolls telling us they are going to take over and our children will be Muslims. Too bad they don't know how many people are waking up and noticing the inequity, especially in America, where the Internet allows us to disseminate information in a nano-second. And the way these trolls keep giving us new material and information to pass along, well, it's a beautiful thing. Just a warning to anyone who wants to do a little gang raping in the good old USA, I can carry a gun, even a concealed one with a permit, which should make it very interesting if anybody wants to try a little raping and pillaging on a Saturday night. I can turn you from a rooster into a hen in short shrift, and not even mess up my nails. And then you'll have to walk around in one of those ugly hefty bags, instead of your wife.

***Disclaimer***

If there are any trolls who would like to be true neighbors, reject their religion of hate, love their neighbors as themselves, not be so fixated on their next sexual conquest and truly be everyday, ordinary guys, we've got no beef with you. Even if you try to kill me I won't HATE you, like you think. 'No hatred here, just good old-fashioned commonsense. I've already had the gift of freewill, which God gave me and which you can't take away, no matter how many people you've raped, burned, mutilated and gouged eyes out of in Bosnia. No matter how many Christian school girls you've beheaded in Indonesia. No matter how many gang rapes you've committed in Norway and Sweden.
I don't hate you and never will.

But I will stop you.

Isky, God isn't concerned with numbers. AIDS is the fasted growing disease in the world. That is hardly justification for getting it. A "real" copy of teh Q'uran is in Arabic, a language which even 80% ot eh Muslims in the world cannot read. According to "real" Muslims noone gets the "full blessings" of the Q'uran unless they can read and recite it in Arabic. Do you?

Trust me. You will thank us one day. Allah and Islam equals a love that you cannot yet understand. It is not your fault but the fault of the culture of which you were born into. We shall remedy that soon.

Abdul

I will help grind Islam into the dust of the ages where it belongs.

Hehehe...
Oh-oh, they're on a love-offensive.

Heehee.
Yep, they know what "TRUE" islam is.

Those dummies in the M.E. actually hijacked and corrupted "true" islam.
Islam was really invented in America. A nice, pacified islam. Just like George Bush sez, right?

"Humanistic islam"....

The therapist will be proud.

Muslim dress, school code clash in Britain By César G. Soriano, USA TODAY
Fri Feb 10, 7:24 AM ET

Britain's highest civil court is deciding whether a Muslim girl's rights were violated when she was barred from school for wearing a traditional dress.

ADVERTISEMENT




The legal battle, which pits an individual's religious freedom against a public institution's need to set rules of conduct, comes as Europe and the Muslim world deal with new, dangerous tensions over the publication of cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed.

Shabina Begum, 17, says she was unlawfully suspended in 2002 from Denbigh High School in Luton, northwest of London, when she insisted on wearing the jilbab, a full-length gown worn by conservative Muslim women that cloaks the entire torso and legs.

Begum's attorney is Cherie Booth, wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. Booth won the case for Begum in a lower court, but the school appealed to Britain's House of Lords judiciary panel, the equivalent of the U.S. Supreme Court.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/muslimdressschoolcodeclashinbritain

Isabelle, Buffy the Muslim Slayer, or whatever you fantacize yourself to be on the internet... sweetie, the only thing you are getting sitting here debating with someone you will never meet is another minute older and a lot broader.

Get up, get out, and have a one-on-one with someone. That's the first thing you need to do if you want to stop anything, specifically the widening of the part you sit on.

Later, chickaroony.

JSLA,

We love you buddy. Don't let the trolls get you down. WE know that's not what you said. It's just more wishful thinking on the part of those who will never know peace, who will never know the love of God as long as they associate with this anti-human cult that demands the sacrifice of fresh blood everyday.

Who's honoring Satan and hatred here?

And Bo Baby,

Glad to hear you are in Texas. I have a lot of faith in the men from Texas. They understand the importance of what the Alamo stood for and will never again be caught without the proper means to keep it safe. If there really are 200,000 Muslims in Dallas, they chose the wrong state to try and pick a fight. Oh, and they don't put up with whining, either.

isKANdaria--

I strongly disagree with your position and your religion, but I'm still ashamed of many of the posts directed at you on this stream. I thought juvenile insults where the stuff of high school? I guess not. The words coming out of the mouths of the Nazarenes on this site are really rich given the oceans of blood they have shed over the centuries (Forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do). I'd like to remind these folks that we've struggled for centuries in West to tamp down the fanatical reflex of their own religion, not Islam. Just because MOST Christians have learned to behave now doesn't mean you weren't as bad as the Islamists back in your glory days. Too bad you can't burn your enemies at the stake anymore, huh?

Raynor

Oh, Isky,

Now I see I really have touched a nerve. Poor baby. Where is your religion of peace? I like how you come un-nerved because I told you some truth. And that's what will beat you everytime.

It's okay for you to be confused and even a little angry. Keep coming towards the light. The truth will set you free.

Funny these "brave Muslim warriors" are afraid to answer the questions about who is a liar, Jesus or Mohammed? They have all failed to defend their faith.

Ol' Raynor's a dedicated "Humanist" I see.

Sacrifice yourself, it's your choice.
But I will make my own.

"You have so much hatred and contempt for people different from you..."
They really have no idea how funny that is when we see Muslims world wide murdering, kidnapping, bombing, burning, etc., to try and force their views on the rest of the world. Talk about hypocrites. At least some of them are good for a laugh.

As the comic rage rages on, proving rather ironically what was to be proved (Q.E.D.), I've added some Crying Mohammed items to the Dumb Ox, there's a coffee mug, a gray t-shirt, a journal, and cards.

http://www.cafepress.com/dumb_ox

We live dangerously at The Dumb Ox.

http://thomistic.blogspot.com

p.s. We've introduced silly video Fridays...

Thank you Robert for your hard work, we're getting the word out with serious intellectual reflection, plenty of sarcasm and capitalism!

All the best,
D. Ox

p.s. warning to your readers, be careful where you display any of the Crying Mohammed items...

There it goes again... Raynor -- another character from the panoply of self-loathing Western Christian bashing moral relativists... How many times have we see useful idiots like this one conflating the real and imagined ancient history of Christianity with the all too real modern day nightmare of Islam...? How many times have we seen the ignorant leftist apologists coming to the unquestioned aid of Islam, willing to pile on in the trumped up defamations and lies in their shared hatred for Christians and the West? It's tiresome. It's insidious.

Such leftist moral relativism is getting awfully threadbareby this time... And this posters sympathy with the Islamic troglodyte is so telling... After I made a fairly innocuous post lampooning the Muslim posters stupidity and lack of spelling acumen, it (the Muslim troll) came back at me with some seriously insane hyperbole, general Islamic ugliness, and a threat just for good measure..:

"Careful now, watch your step as the next one promises to be a "dousie".

"Dousie?" Now what could it be referring to? Is it threatening me? Is it threatening us? Seems like that paper thing veneer of peace love and understanding is terribly easy to wrench away -- as we know is is from all of the Muslim hypocrites who come here to conduct their disinformation da'wa.

So -- Does it mean to "dousie" me with gasolinie and set me on flamies? Not sure what this ignorant pustule means in it's droll little threat, but the fact that Raynor is so eager to side with it and it's vile creed is telling...

Self loathing leftist secular zealots such as Raynor are sometimes little better than the verminous Muslim fascists. Here we see splendid samples of both types of insect.

Bo,

One of the Imams must have told them to get on the blogs and try and tie up the threads by playing Marco Polo all over the place. Very clever. But they are no match for the likes of us. And I love it! (And me, just a little old girl, he he!)

Well, I'll check in with you guys later. 'Gotta go get my nails done and polish my gun collection. ; )

You go girl!

Isabella, there is probably no more than 20,000 slaves living in the Big D. But you never see them around town as they are either in the mosque or at home breeding.

fastest growing "religion" my ass.

because

a) if a muslim converts to something else in Saudi Arabia, the penalty is death

and

b) the fastest growing belief in Europe is non-belief i.e. atheism.

in the UK media , "islam" is always referred to as the "2nd biggest religion" - but thats a misrepresentation. a slight of hand , if you will.

in pure religion terms, you've got 70 per cent christian, 3 per cent muslim and the others following.

However, if you add NON-RELIGION, there's a whopping 15 per cent. and its growing.

The "moral-relavitists' actually are not "moral relavitists". Moral-relavitism is just the verifiable observation that different people/cultures percieve their own moral/culture to be "good".
The "moral-relavitists" who have added a UNIVERSAL value-judgement on all morals/cultures are not relavitist at all, they are arrogant absolutists. They have taken the intrinsic value of a human at birth and extended it into ADULTHOOD. This is Humanism. Think about this, and the ramifications on the rest of us.

raynor -> remember the gates of vienna, 1683

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

Isabella, keep your powder dry darling. The truth will always trump a lie. As The Duke said, "I will not be threatened and I will not be insulted." No matter how hard these new Nazis try. I refuse to be ashamed for winning WWII. I refuse to apologize for fighting a war to end slavery in this country. I refuse to forget that when other countries are in need of help, it is America that comes to their aid. I refuse to apologize for my Lord dying on the cross. If they don't like that, I don't give a damn.

kentim -> i'm humanist - and i have absolutely zero moral relativism with regards to other belief systems. some beliefs are good, some evil , some neutral.

the primary consideration for tolerance of other belief systems amongst humanists like myself is - do they infringe on my rights of others to practise their beliefs or do they try to supress the rights of other human beings to practise their beliefs.

in that regards, i'm afraid, the supremacist ideology of Islam fails. therefore, to humanist eyes, it is "evil". it is not good for humanity.

argh- i wish i had an edit button.. let me rephrase that..

do they NOT infringe on the rights of others to practise their beliefs or religion (a good thing)

or

do they try to supress the rights of other human beings to practise their beliefs and try to impose their will on these non-believers. (a bad thing)

in that regards, i'm afraid, the supremacist ideology of Islam fails.

therefore, to humanist eyes, it is "evil". it is not good for humanity. it is anti-freedom. it is anti-free speech.

thats all there is to it, from an humanist point of view.

Well, archduke, while you may be call yourself a humanist, the dominant (Marxist)humanist dogma that is influencing society(and the world) is responsible for the insanity we are seeing in non-muslims. Insanity= disconnection from reality.

Also, there are some interesting angles to look at in the area of "rights".
Islamists are not the only or the most powerful group of rights-violators.

Fence Sitter and all other Muslims:

It has taken me longer than I would like to respond to you for I have also been busy earning a living. My Bible, the true word of God, states that even evil men will work and love their own families, but this does not make them good.

So here is my reply.

Christianity:

There is only one basic principal in the New Testament and that is salvation is open to all human beings and to become a Christian and gain salvation all you have to do is to ask for forgiveness through Jesus Christ to God and it will be granted even to a Muslim if you so ask.

Islam & America:

You wonder why Americans have such distaste for Islam and its Muslim followers. Following are a few of the thousands of reasons.

We value our freedoms more than Islam and its followers.

How many innocents were killed in the America on 9/11 by Muslims????? Muslims danced in the street afterwards.

How may innocents have been killed in Israel by Muslims?????

How many innocents have been killed in Africa by Muslims????

How many innocent children were killed in Beslan by Muslims?????

How many more Americans will be killed by Muslims in the next attack on America?????

The silence of the Muslims is deafening and shows undying support of the Islamic terror and murder across the globe.

Mohammed:
The Muslims are rioting over cartoons about Mohammed the murder, pedophile, child molester and child rapist.

How can you slander Islam when its prophet, Mohammed, was a child molester and child rapist. Mohammed forcibly married a 6 year old baby girl and started molesting and raping this innocent girl child at 9 years old.
Bukhari Hadith Vol VII, Book 62, Number 64: "Narrated Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."

Yet beyond all comprehension in today's modern world, Muslims call Mohammed the child rapist a prophet. Only other liars, murders and child molesters and rapists would follow such a prophet. Allah is a figment of Mohammed’s imagination that he fostered onto others to cover his shame and crimes against humanity. From this, Islam was born. What an abortion.

Islam was created from hate and murder and remains a cult of hate and murder.

A religion built from such filth is not a religion but a violent, perverted and corrupt cult that can only have violent, perverted and corrupt followers.

There is nothing in Islam that can be slandered.

Islam does not want peace. Islam wants world domination. It is the main command in the Quran to convert all to Islam or murder them.

The Jews and Christians have fought Muslims through the centuries and will continue to fight until Islam is defeated, because the free world can not live with the violence, hatred and murdering of Islam and Islam will not give up the violence, hatred and murdering.

Revelations tells what is to happen across the Middle East when the Muslims and others surround Israel. Stars (missiles) will fall out of the sky like over ripen figs from the fig tree shaken by a might wind. Mountains will be moved and islands will disappear.

War with Islam is inevitable because the so called peaceful Muslims will not rise-up and destroy those that have murdered innocents across the globe. The innocent and the guilty in Islam will die together when the bombings start.

How can any reasonable and prudent person in any way conceivable follow Mohammed who was a murder and child rapist?????

Peace can not in anyway be associated with anyone that follows Mohammed the murdering pedophile child rapist.

Now do you see why America has such a distaste for Islam and it followers.

Islam will see what firebrands that America has after the next attack on America.

The Texican,

It is better to fight and die free than to ever liver under Islam.

Freedom. The only choice.

Ask yourself this question - Was Mohammed a nose-picker?

Kentim--

Thanks for the Christian words, but you're wrong I'm not a libral, a leftist, or a moral relativist. Moreover, if it wasn't for humanists like John Locke, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and a great many others, it wouldn't be the United States we currently live in but rather Jesusland run by LEFT BEHIND nut jobs such as yourself and jsla who'd get their jollies by roasting heretics such as me over bonfires. See you at the Day of Judgement, you false Christian.

Raynor

I'm an unbeliever you moron.

And you did'nt get any 'Christian" words from me.

kentim, it seems to me that you are the one calling names and making threats of physical violence. I don't think they will tolerate that here, so before you're TOS'ed, did you forget to take your meds?

Sorry folks....but I have yet to read this entire thread before I post my thoughts from viewing the picture at the top of this topic.

This poor little girl looks so sad.......it is obvious she was given a sign to stand in protest and probably told to keep her mouth shut to journalists.....and if she needs to speak.......to only speak the dribble that comes from the teachings of the ISLAM CULT!

I would love to photograph her after she spent two days at a spa where she could be pampered and deprogramed from this CULT. I bet she would feel like a totally different young woman.

Now.....I can go back to the top and read the thread...and probably get pissed off at the total ignorance of ISLAM!

I responded, and "physical" threats are kinda unrealistic considering we are playing at virtual reality here.
The threat was a "figure of speech'.

And your own "name-calling" behavior has been noted.

"The threat was a "figure of speech'." A threat is never a figure of speech except for cowards who cannot back it up. But I'll leave that one to the moderators.

The next excuse from the Muslim playbook should be along the lines of "It wasn't my fault! The Infidels made me do it! "

"Hammer, yes, I am a muslim convert, no I don't live in Texas, but about 200,000 muslims do (in Dallas)."

It is obvious by your tone of voice and style that you were a convert. Probably a liberal spoiled child from divorced parents....possibly both who are still trying to find themselves. You sound just like a liberal who grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. If you did not grow up in the San Francisco Bay Area.....I would imagine you did grow up in some other part of America that allowed you to EXPLORE AND FIND YOURSELF. (ie. Let's not bother our little JOHNNIE while he discovers what poop is all about.)

What's the matter Bohemond, I rain on more than Raynor's parade?, let me guess you're so-called humanist too.

You don't like the stuff I say huh? Other people might check into it, and that ain't good hmm?

The "threat" was meant as a challege, here, Mr. OH-SO-SENSITIVE.

kentim, at least be man enough to mean what you say. But then again I suppose we should be used to threats, lies and taqiyyah from your kind.

Bohemond,
Please explain what you believe my "kind" to be. At least 10 sentences.

isKANdaria:

Well then, allow me to reveal some bad news for you and the Muslims of Dallas:

I am now a citizen of Texas.

This is where I moved to very recently. You see -- I think ahead. I always think ahead.

There will be no quiet Dhimmitude in Texas while I'm alive.

Posted by: Foehammer at February 10, 2006 07:31 PM

isKANdaria:

But I will stop you.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 10, 2006 07:33 PM

It is good to see that many more are becoming mad as shit and ready to do something about it.

isKANdaria

So there are 200,000 Muslims in Dallas. I know millions of Texas red necks that are still pissed off about 9/11. There will not be dancing in the street by Muslims in America after the next Muslim attack on America.

I also live in the Texas and am ready for the war with Islam that is coming.

Be prepared. Be armed. Be ready.

The Texican,

It is better to fight and die free than to ever ive under Islam.

Freedom. The only choice at any cost.

Lets see, I picked out Raynor perfectly, only he was way off on his perception of me. And he calls me names cause I attack a psuedo-scientific ideology/dogma. And then Bohemond tries to come to his rescue, what chivalry.

Hmm, but I'm the "bad-guy".
Too bad.

Thank God I'm an agnostic (with Taoist leanings)!

To have to worry about the dusty, pre-psychological prattlings of dead men (always men) must wear the myelin sheath off the neuronal tissue behind the dura matter, and fray the brain to conceptual goop.

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord (Hadiths galore crow it) whose present-day militant followers lose their collective minds at the slightest insult to his purportedly "perfect" character.

As if anything accurately reported about him could be considered anything but a sordid rap sheet.

On the opposite end of the sacred spectrum, Jesus was a witty guy (whether he thought of himself as anything be a "child of God" as every other human being is, or not, I find impossible to determine, since human beings rewrote the New Testament story of him to suit their own power urges, and, as the Nag Hammadi "lost teachings" proved, we didn't get the whole truth about the "Truth").

He overturned the petrified rule of the despotic deity of the Old Testament with his brilliant repartee ("render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar and to God the things that are God's"), sly humanism ("it is not what goes into a person's mouth, but what comes out of it, that makes them unclean"), defense of women's rights ("let he who is without sin cast the first stone"), and peristent and brilliant mockery of hypocrisy ("you clean the outside of the cup, but the interior is polluted"/ "you are like whitewashed tombs, but within are filled with corruption") and a pure love that was unmatched in human history until his day.

Unfortunately, sadly, and terribly tragically Mohammad revived the Christ-overthrown monster/king Old Testament cruel "God", the "Lord of vengeance", and disastrously turned mankind backward into the vendetta-filled darkness again with his retrograde creed.

Glorying in hellfire for his earthly opponents, absolute intolerance for all who doctrinally disagreed with him , and spewed out calls for the death of those who would not convert to his dictator's idea of a "divinity".

Turning Jesus's agape breakthrough on its head. And the world back onto one more tired, bloody road to hell. Paved by recycled Old Testament (now called "Islamic") dogma, -the same old map of horrors that led the Jews into diaspora after diaspora from their own unrealistic Yaweh-intoxicated arrogance.

Behind this record of "religious" warfare over which direction leads to "God", what can we really know?

We can know ourselves.

We can accept that others will see the Universe with different eyes (some 20/20, some colorblind, some Buddhist, some Baptist).

But when any "true believers" insist on poking your eyes out because what you see disagree with what they "see", then enlightened self-defense will rise up to prevent the theocratic egomaniacs from being allowed to bring the world to their "one-true-kind" of "vision".

Which is essentially spiritual blindness trying to prevent anyyone else from seeing more than they can.

I don't like what Mohammad did. (As reported by his own p.r. team in the Hadiths.)

I find the Koran a schizoid document, perfectly understandable given the level of psychological development of the 7th century. (Nil, with some intuitive poetry.) It comes off as a pedophile warlord's diary of revenge fantasies for those who disagreed with him and smooth sugared lies about "comapssion" to lure in the good-hearted and naive. (Larded with promises of loot for the all-too-common cynical thieves who would later follow other 'Great Men' like Atilla, Hitler, Stalin and Mao.)

Muslims fail to be able to think critically.

The Koran does not allow it.

It is thus doomed like every megalomaniacal creed before it.

The fatal flaw in their push for global dominion is this inability for self-assessment.

The subconscious mind, hiding behind the eyes, will secretly revolt and trip them up at the crucial moment, since this secretly free spirit will only go against its own healthy nature for so long ...and for just so far... before it needs to laugh, to stretch, to play, and to look for something beyond degrading, paralyzing cage of "submission".

Mohammad, ultimately, is a bore.

Let's look at today's contrast. There is one show on the Discovery Channel talking about space tourism and on the news; hundreds of thousands can be seen marching in protest of a drawing of Prophet - who lived 1500 years ago.

The contrast could not be greater. While we explore space - 1/5 of the world’s population really looks backwards and wants to maintain and be governed by rules, from 1500 years ago.

Under Islamic law, for example, if you ‘kill’ someone you are to bring that persons family several camels.

They might be asking for more than we could logically give them. The protests wont stop - and new protest have been planned for tomorrow. And you get the impression that even those Muslims, who say that they are not so bothered by the images; seem to implying that some other punishment needs to be enacted in this case.

The first protesters may have stated it more accurately, “death to those who 'make cartoon images' about the Prophet”.

A few years ago I remember speaking to a Somali refugee about space and how many planets there were. He sat there, the whole time, waving his hands in the air, going Waallah, Wallah. Then the guy proceeded to explain, how a man could have more than one woman, but the woman can not have more than one man, as it is seen as 'mixing the milk'. What?!!

More recently I was talking to a young man from North Africa, who believed that it was God that caused the weather - and seemed a little spooked, when I explained to him that the changes in weather were caused by heat rising and meeting with bodies of colder air and so on. He had not long graduated from high school.

This is what we are dealing with.

The majority of these people just don't have the information to be able to talk rationally. In Saudi Arabia and straight across the Muslim world, young people are taught more Koran, than all other subjects put together. They don't know anything else.

There is also a resistance to learning modern science in many Islamic countries; because if it is not found in the Koran, they are forbidden to practice it. In many of these countries a kind of Islamic Mathematics is taught. And I have no idea what that is about.

They want to urge us - not to paint their Prophet in an unfavourable light, but maybe it is a good time for us to urge these Islam governments to teach their young people more about the modern world.

It doesn't need to be conquered - anymore!!

Hehe, I'll bet 'ol bohemond and raynor are telling on me," teacher, teacher, kentim's baaaaad! He needs some ADHD drugs. The ones that might cause "instant death". But what the hell, at least he'll shut the hell up!

kentim, your kind is Muslim. The same kind of cowards who are carrying posters saying "Behead those who Insult Islam", "Europe your 9-11 is coming", etc., and hide their faces. The same kind who refuse to answer my questions as to whether Jesus Christ is a liar for saying He was the Son of god, or whether the Q'uran is right for saying Jesus Christ did not die on the cross as He prophesied He would. The same kind who cry religious discrimination while they refuse to allow churches, crosses or bibles in Saudi Arabia. The same kind who want to project Islam as a religion of peace while they kidnap, murder, rape, burn, and bomb their fellow man because they believe the Q'uran commands them to do it. The same kind who refuse to be honest about slavery in Islamic countries. The same kind who does not allow freedom of speech or freedom of the press in any Islamic country. The same kind who believes that Mohammed was a prophet even though there is not one single prophecy in the Q'uran. The same kind who say that all Jews must be exterminated. The same kind who believes that a pig has more power than God because pork will not allow you into heaven. The same kind that come here and when they can no longer dodge the arguments they run away. Oops, sorry, that was 11, you asked for 10.

taqiyyah from your kind.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at February 10, 2006 09:48 PM

Taqiyyah means 'concealing one's religion or faith due. to fear, but in one's heart,

........So there is no misunderstanding by the Muslims, The Texican is a red neck Christian and dam proud of it..........

........To understand the meaning of mad as shit, just throw some on a someone and see how fricking mad they get...........

The Texican

kentim - You are a moron of the highest order. Take your stupid conspiracy theories elsewhere.

It's too bad to see that most of the people commenting here are xenophobic morons. This site could have fostered some good intellectual debate, but all I see is a mob of Christians calling all the Muslims drones (I mean talk about the pot calling the kettle black).

And now I'm sure someone's going to call me a Muslim, like I got accused of pretending to be an atheist in the other thread because I said that there are tolerant Muslims (even though I explicitely said that I'm anti-dhimmitude and that I completely support Denmark...I guess I have to hate all Muslims and make allusions of genocide in order to be taken on my word).

Get a life all you Christian hypocrites. Stop trying to legislate YOUR dhimmitude, and then you can talk legitimately (yes, I'm talking about your gay-marraige bans and your anti-abortion laws, which are based on Christian morality, and therefore do not belong as laws in a secular state). If it weren't for the enlightenment, you guys would probably still be burning witches.

Sheesh.

Bohemond,
What drivel.
You're fricken nuts.

"you guys would probably still be burning witches."

At least under shariah, they're stoned to death in a pit. It takes three to four hours.

Obviously, a much more "sensitive" and enlightened resolution.

Left one out: the insignificant kind who makes hollow, cowardly threats and curses when they cannot make an intelligent, logical response to an argument.
I'm going out now to have some good Danish beer, cheese and pork with some friends. You are dismissed.

Notice how they all ASS-UME I'm a Christian.
A little generalization and KNEE-JERK action going on there. Like they think they that Christians are the only ones who oppose so-called humanism(and only because of the bible).
And they think they are intellectually superior to Christians even though they(humanists) buy into a brainwashing totalitarian psuedo-scientific cult.

Bohemond,
Argument????
Are you kidding? Of course I can't dispute your opinion, and since you did'nt make any propositions or statements of fact, there is no argument to be had.

All you try to do is provoke me with your BRAVE "coward" taunts. Whoop-dee-doo.
I'm am prepared to die for my freedom and principles, and I will.

Re: kentin

"Notice how they all ASS-UME I'm a Christian.
A little generalization and KNEE-JERK action going on there. Like they think they that Christians are the only ones who oppose so-called humanism(and only because of the bible).
And they think they are intellectually superior to Christians even though they(humanists) buy into a brainwashing totalitarian psuedo-scientific cult."

No, I wasn't specifically referring to you in the latter portion of my post, that's why I singled you out as an uber-moron, moron.

There are a lot of Christians in here though, and many of them are being irrational as all hell...so yeah, I was referring to them. But thanks for misconstruing me, moron.

Now if you think science and humanism are as dogmatic as everything else, then please burn your all your posessions and go live in a cave somewhere, 'cause all that technology that you love to love is a direct result of the applications of science, moron.\

Cheers,
Nate

Get a life all you Christian hypocrites. Stop trying to legislate YOUR dhimmitude, and then you can talk legitimately (yes, I'm talking about your gay-marraige bans and your anti-abortion laws, which are based on Christian morality, and therefore do not belong as laws in a secular state). If it weren't for the enlightenment, you guys would probably still be burning witches.

Sheesh.

Posted by: Nate Prophet

Nate the Prophet:

If you live in America, you have freedoms developed from basic Christian beliefs and from the dreams sacrifices and victories of American Christians through the centuries. America is a Christian country and will remain a Christian country regardless of the millions of attacks on Christian Americans by the left and their leftist new media.

Christians will live in peace with just about any one until they start attacking us or our religion. Christians across America have reached the point that we are mad as hell and are not going to take it any more and those in America and across the globe you will be hearing a lot more from us.

If this upsets you, to damn bad. If you do not like living in Christian America then get the fricking hell out and go live somewhere else.

or;

You can join us and be part of the solution to the Muslims that intend on MURDERING Nate the Prophet if Nate the Prophet does not become a Muslim. Some choice.

I do not care if you become a Christian or live as an agnostic or athetist in America, but do not attack my rights as a Christian American and we will get along just fine.

The war with Islam is fastly approaching and it is near.

Be prepared, Be armed. Be ready.

The Texican,

Freedom. The only choice at any cost.

NATE....NATE...NATE.....

INTERIOR DESIGN.......

Nate Prophet,
Okay bigshot, I'll be right back, I think you gave me some stuff to pick-apart.

We have to ask of the picture above - Can the girl holding the placard - read it?

Islam has got modernize itself.

They are making their attacks - but it is really an expose of their intentions.

I'll bet Islam will not be coming to Denmark.

Nate,

I haven't read most recent threads, so am curious as to how you, personally, define a "moderate muslim". I'm not looking to argue about things right now, just to see a short and clear definition from your viewpoint. I have looked for moderate muslims, but my sightings have consistently turned out to be false sightings.

I trust we would agree that the supremacism evident in this thread's picture (and those linked at Jawa report), "Islam is Coming to Denmark" is not moderate, even if that person advocates nominally peaceful (dawa), rather than violent (terrorism) methods to reach her goal. By which I mean that both their methods and their goals must meet tests for "moderation", (whatever, exactly that is).

Thanks for your help.

Texican, Prophet is my last name, no need to call me "Nate the Prophet."

This country IS NOT a Christian country, despite what your indoctrinated self likes to assert.

If it were, why then, is the seperation of Church and State an integral component of our constitution, hmmmm??? If the founding fathers were so concerned with making America a Christian country, why didn't they make it a theocracy from the get go?

But America is definitely leaning towards such a theocracy, and if it happens, believe me I'll be the first to go. I love the ideals that America was founded on, but I don't love it because it's Ah-mehr-i-cuh...it's just a piece of land that has a better institution of government then most other pieces of land, an institution that protects my rights, and if the institution no longer gaurantees that protection, then I'll go find a better place to carry out my rights in peace. America to me is not a flag or a doctrine, but it's the ideal that all sorts of people should be able to carry out their ambitions in a free market and together build prosperity...but I could not give a sh*t less about the stars and stripes and some sort of abstract Nationalism that they're supposed to inspire.

I am glad that there were Christians and non-Christians alike to fight for my freedom in the past. So don't think I'm somehow discounting the influence that many Christians had on the formation of this country.

I'd guess that the girl holding the placard can't read it, because she probably can't read (or speak) English, and perhaps can't even read in her own language. Also, I'd say that she has no idea where Denmark is, nor Europe either. And I'd guess that the vast majority of those demonstrating, or protesting, or boycotting throughout the Muslim world today have no idea, no idea at all, where Denmark is, what Denmark is, or how big Denmark is. Their ignorance about this is almost guaranteed.

The placards in these orchestrated protests are for our benefit, obviously. The fact that many of the messages take the form of a threat speaks volumes for the protesters' modus operandi.

"Nate,

I haven't read most recent threads, so am curious as to how you, personally, define a "moderate muslim". I'm not looking to argue about things right now, just to see a short and clear definition from your viewpoint. I have looked for moderate muslims, but my sightings have consistently turned out to be false sightings.

I trust we would agree that the supremacism evident in this thread's picture (and those linked at Jawa report), "Islam is Coming to Denmark" is not moderate, even if that person advocates nominally peaceful (dawa), rather than violent (terrorism) methods to reach her goal. By which I mean that both their methods and their goals must meet tests for "moderation", (whatever, exactly that is).

Thanks for your help."

Re: del

I think a moderate Muslim is someone who is content to live under the principles of liberty that we in the West hold dearly, and who does not seek to impose his will on other peoples. Obviously, moderacy kind of goes against their whole 'kill the infidel' mantra, but there are many subscribers to many different systems of belief that do not follow all the rules of those systems, yet still would consider themselves subscribers to their respective systems. So a moderate Muslim is then a Muslim who renounces the violence of the Koran, but appreciates its other teachings. For instance, Dave Chappelle is Muslim, but he obviously appreciates the principles of satire and criticism that we in the West live by, and I'm sure he's not the only one, although I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he would be of the minority.

Okay,

Nate sez:
"Take your stupid conspiracy theories elsewhere."

I say:
What conspiracy theory is that?, everything about the NWO is a matter of the public record. There is no doubt "globalization" is the NWO. dUH.

Then he sez:
"Now if you think science and humanism are as dogmatic as everything else".

I say:
hehe, I don't think science and "humanism" are synonyms. I have great respect for real science. But I don't respect pseudo-science that denies reality.
And I don't like Marxist con-men using real scientific knowledge(psychological) to decieve and manipulate people.

Nate sez:
"There are a lot of Christians in here though, and many of them are being irrational as all hell.."

I say:
That's funny, it's the Christians who see the Islamic threat for what it is, as opposed to what it should be, might be, or wished to be, according to the "humanist" dogma, which is that the muslims can't(really) help themselves so we should sacrifice ourselves while the humanists apply psychotherapy on the muslims.
It's the "humanists" who want to talk about it and "dialogue", and can't bear the thought of all-out war.
___

Gay marriage. Well, if one REALLY believes in evolution; queer behavior is not normal, natural, or healthy. But hey, to each it's own, but don't expect society to celebrate it or give them special privileges.

Abortion.
Yeah, the "right to choose".
Mmm-hmm. The "womans body". Yeah, sure.
What it is really about is irresponsibility and Ugenics. It dovetails nicely with euthanasia. Margaret Singer(Sanger?) and co-horts.

How else can they create the "New Man"?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48764

By Jay Stapleton:

"The bottom line is that Allah's complete incomprehensibility and total "otherness" leaves a huge void in the heart of the Muslim. Because man is driven to worship something he can relate to, the vacuum created by the incomprehensible Allah is often filled by Muhammad. Although worship of the prophet of Islam is forbidden, the practice is revealed in the constant reverencing of his name. The problem is, Muhammad makes for a very vulnerable god.

Insult is inflammatory when it strikes a note of truth (like a cartoon can do), and Muhammad's dubious legacy and integrity are defended furiously. The recent Islamic uproar reminds me of the old joke about the preacher who was writing out his sermon notes. Toward the end, he jotted to himself in the margin "Weak point – pound fist, speak loudly." Likewise, in the Muslim rioting and burning, we're seeing evidence of vulnerable weakness, not zealous conviction. I despise public denigration of Jesus Christ, but He needs my defense about as much as a lion needs help from a duck.

I have a sense of pity for these rioting, Muslim crowds. In defending Muhammad (and previously, the flushed Quran), there's a desperate attempt to show some fealty to Allah, the unrelatable one. There's also reason for caution in these events. We're not watching the actions of a few, fundamentalist radicals. These are the actions of a huge, violent and deadly dysfunctional religious family now living in our midst. May the love of Christ – and not resentment – prevail in our hearts."

Read the article......

If it were, why then, is the seperation of Church and State an integral component of our constitution, hmmmm??? If the founding fathers were so concerned with making America a Christian country, why didn't they make it a theocracy from the get go?

Prophet:

It seems that you haven't read the Constitution and Bill of Rights lately. It says the government will make no law abridging the right to relegion and "not separation of church and state."

In the 1940's, a left leaning court was presuaded that the Bill of Rights implied "separation of Church and State" which it does not. This will be corrected in time.

Regardless of your beliefs, America is still a Christian America and you will still be welcome here.

We are pleased that you are willing to join us Christian Americans to defeat Islam in its try to dominate the free world.

The Texican.

Freedom. The only choice at any cost.

Here is a O.T. google video called "Its in the Koran"

funny and accurate

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8442014088728649932

ROTFLMAO..................WATCH THE VIDEO ABOVE.......SO FUNNY.....SO........ACCURATE!

Nate-

Put a $100 bill in the middle of the road equidistant from a moderate Muslim, a militant Muslim, and the Easter Bunny. Which one will get the money first? The militant Muslim because- to paraphrase Kevin Smith- the other two creatures are figments of your f**ing imagination.

Well, that's not exactly true. There are some like Fouad Ajami or Fareed Zakharia who have not yet apostasized and who are genuinely patriotic, but they're exceedingly rare specimens, freaks among their kind. The typical Muslim may not be directly involved in terrorism or militant activity (outside the occassional ask-no-questions donation to a Palestinian "charity"), but they are still threats to our society and will dismember our freedoms and sabatogue our foreign policy given sufficient numbers through the ballot-box just the same (look up Britain's narrowly-defeated, Muslim-backed religious vilification law for a taste of what sustained exposure to a large Muslim population will do even to the most advanced societies).

Here is a good one:-

http://islamcomicbook.com/01.htm

I imagine 'moderate' Islam as a huge ocean liner, and the Mad Mullahs and terrorists are at the controls steering it right at us. Like a scene out of Speed 2: Cruise Control.

emperor_diocletian..............its FRIDAY night in my world and your post is accurate........I think I will have a HOBGOBLIN!

CHEERS!

The following includes three bits from Sahih Bukhari, showing Muhammed in an interesting light

Before I go to Bukhari, let me say that this particular thread has probably not been helping Spencer's effort to defend against the totalitarian aspects of Islam. We should aim for a higher, more factual standard of posting here. The polemics should contain less shooting from the hip, and more citation of evidence -- by evidence I mean actual passages from Muslim documents, or from scholarly authorities. I'll try, in my feeble way, to start: Here are two great websites where you can read the Hadith and the Koran and cite passages from them as evidence for your viewpoint:

A translation of Sahih Bukhari:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/

An annotated Koran useful to skeptics:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.html

Before I cite a Sahih Bukhari passage (which shows Muhammed capable of significant cruelty), what do Muslims think of Bukhari, you might ask? The University of Southern California/Muslim Student Associations site, in an introduction at

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/sbtintro.html

says Sahih Bukhari

"is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah [life] of the Prophet"

At http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah

the USC-MSA site says

"The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them"

Now that we know how the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world, according to the University of Southern California-Muslim Student Associations site, regards Sahih Bukhari, here are a few excerpts:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796:
Narrated Anas:
A group of people from Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died. (Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder and fought against Allah and His Apostle.") /

I boldfaced some of the above text. Wow, Mohammed sure drew the line at cruel and unusual punishment, huh? Glad there were some things he was unwilling to do.

Here's another from Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

I boldfaced some text above. One more cite from Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
While we were with the Prophet , a man stood up and said (to the Prophet ), "I beseech you by Allah, that you should judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then the man's opponent who was wiser than him, got up saying (to Allah's Apostle) "Judge us according to Allah's Law and kindly allow me (to speak)." The Prophet said, "'Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer working for this man and he committed an illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom for my son's sin. Then I asked a learned man about this case and he informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and be exiled for one year, and the man's wife should be stoned to death." The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to the Laws of Allah. Your one-hundred sheep and the slave are to be returned to you, and your son has to receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O Unais! Go to the wife of this man, and if she confesses, then stone her to death." Unais went to her and she confessed. He then stoned her to death.

Posters on this thread (myself included) should see there is not so much need to be polemical about Islam. These ahadith speak for themselves, and most non-Muslims (and many nominal Muslims) will be able to draw reasonable conclusions, without any help from polemics. Let the facts and documents talk more than polemics.

Re: Kentim

[[Okay,

Nate sez:
"Take your stupid conspiracy theories elsewhere."

I say:
What conspiracy theory is that?, everything about the NWO is a matter of the public record. There is no doubt "globalization" is the NWO. dUH.]]

Yes, but when you refer to the global order, it sounds as though you're attributing it to the motives of some sort of organization, which reeks of conspiracy theories that I've heard espoused on other forums throughout the net.

[[Then he sez:
"Now if you think science and humanism are as dogmatic as everything else".

I say:

hehe, I don't think science and "humanism" are synonyms. I have great respect for real science. But I don't respect pseudo-science that denies reality.
And I don't like Marxist con-men using real scientific knowledge(psychological) to decieve and manipulate people.]]

Dictionary.com defines humanism as:

"A cultural and intellectual movement of the Renaissance that emphasized secular concerns as a result of the rediscovery and study of the literature, art, and civilization of ancient Greece and Rome."

By that definition, humanism sounds pretty good to me, and as though it should get along pretty well.

Coupled with your earlier mention of humanism being associated with psuedoscientific absolutism, I thought that you were trying to say that science itself is a psuedo-practice (being that when scientists claim absolute knowledge of the universe, they are often criticized as being dogmatic, which is quite fallicious if you ask me) of conniving humanists.

[[Nate sez:
"There are a lot of Christians in here though, and many of them are being irrational as all hell.."

I say:
That's funny, it's the Christians who see the Islamic threat for what it is, as opposed to what it should be, might be, or wished to be, according to the "humanist" dogma, which is that the muslims can't(really) help themselves so we should sacrifice ourselves while the humanists apply psychotherapy on the muslims.
It's the "humanists" who want to talk about it and "dialogue", and can't bear the thought of all-out war.]]

Dude, is it possible for you to comprehend that maybe there are some people who subscribe to certain principles of humanism, but are averse to it's communal doctrines? I don't like the Marxist aftertaste that humanism carries, but it does have some very good aspects, particularly the subset called secular humanism.

Maybe it's my fault though, because I'm not very familiar with the history of humanism as a movement.

[[Gay marriage. Well, if one REALLY believes in evolution; queer behavior is not normal, natural, or healthy. But hey, to each it's own, but don't expect society to celebrate it or give them special privileges.]]

Uh, they're not asking for special privileges, as the right to marraige between two consenting individuals is quite a normative privilege as far as I can see.

[[Abortion.
Yeah, the "right to choose".
Mmm-hmm. The "womans body". Yeah, sure.
What it is really about is irresponsibility and Ugenics. It dovetails nicely with euthanasia. Margaret Singer(Sanger?) and co-horts.

How else can they create the "New Man"?]]

There you go with your conspiracy theories...who is this "they" who want to create this "New Man?"

Oh right, it's "them."

Anyways, like I said, I don't know much about humanism as a movement, but at face value I like some facets of secular humanism.

Abortion has nothing to do with eugenics, except maybe in your woo-land of the "great conspiracy of humanism." Eugenics is the process of preventing certain individuals from breeding over many generations in order to literally remove their genes from the gene pool.

First of all, a woman, if she decides to have a baby, must then take care of it as a result of her decision. But if she is forced to have it against her will, then she is not responsible for taking care of it, because she had no choice in the matter (regardless of how she was impregnated). So therefore, by not allowing women the right to choose, a baby is quite possibly condemned to a life of neglect.

Furthermore, a baby is not a life until all it's brain has wired itself together such that it begins to exhibit sentience. So early-term abortion cannot be considered euthanasia.

Then, the argument often becomes, 'what if you had been aborted?' This question cannot be answered, because if I had been aborted, then there would be no me answer that question, and there would be no me to care about my life.

Then, the argument often becomes, 'what if Einstien or another person of great relevance been aborted?' In this case again, the question cannot be answered, because the me in the timeline of events where Einstien was aborted would probably not ever have been born (because the series of events leading up to my birth would be completely altered, and thus would likely no longer lead up to my birth), and even if I still was born, I would have no knowledge of this alternate timeline and thus would not be able to answer the question.

There are many more arguments for the case of choice, but unfortunately I've gotta eat dinner atm.

Laters,
Nate

Dear Eduardo Odraude:

You are correct........I think this thread has reached the end, and I promise to read your links in the morning.

A rational mind looking out for the frustrated MAJORITY!

Re: Texican

[If it were, why then, is the seperation of Church and State an integral component of our constitution, hmmmm??? If the founding fathers were so concerned with making America a Christian country, why didn't they make it a theocracy from the get go?

Prophet:

It seems that you haven't read the Constitution and Bill of Rights lately. It says the government will make no law abridging the right to relegion and "not separation of church and state."

In the 1940's, a left leaning court was presuaded that the Bill of Rights implied "separation of Church and State" which it does not. This will be corrected in time.

Regardless of your beliefs, America is still a Christian America and you will still be welcome here.

We are pleased that you are willing to join us Christian Americans to defeat Islam in its try to dominate the free world.

The Texican.

Freedom. The only choice at any cost.]

If I were more familiar with the finer points of Americas history, then I'd contest you more on this, but for now I must decline from further argumentation on this specific point out of ignorance.

Why do you want America to be a Christian nation anyways? If you espouse freedom as "The only choice at any cost," then you should realize that religious establishmentarianism will impose Christianity on individuals who would not appreciate being so imposed, therefore impinging on their freedoms. So think a little bit more about what a Christian Nation implies. What's wrong with a nation of liberty, where anyone can do whatever they want as long as they do not impinge on the liberties of anyone else? This is guaranteed by a neutral constitution, and grants your Christianity and my Atheism equal standing under the law.

"There are many more arguments for the case of choice, but unfortunately I've gotta eat dinner atm."

THANK GOD...........

Re: emperor_diocletian

[Put a $100 bill in the middle of the road equidistant from a moderate Muslim, a militant Muslim, and the Easter Bunny. Which one will get the money first? The militant Muslim because- to paraphrase Kevin Smith- the other two creatures are figments of your f**ing imagination.

Well, that's not exactly true. There are some like Fouad Ajami or Fareed Zakharia who have not yet apostasized and who are genuinely patriotic, but they're exceedingly rare specimens, freaks among their kind. The typical Muslim may not be directly involved in terrorism or militant activity (outside the occassional ask-no-questions donation to a Palestinian "charity"), but they are still threats to our society and will dismember our freedoms and sabatogue our foreign policy given sufficient numbers through the ballot-box just the same (look up Britain's narrowly-defeated, Muslim-backed religious vilification law for a taste of what sustained exposure to a large Muslim population will do even to the most advanced societies).]

Well, we have to root them out, and let them know that we will not tolerate their subversive agendas. But I think that if the elusive moderate does exist, then he will likely back us when this clash boils over. I don't think that mass-deportation or anything more drastic is an acceptable solution, as many seem to imply.

Despite what one poster has posted, the real fastest growing faith is the Christian faith because of the best kept secret : the growth of Christian churches in the third world, and in Africa bigime. Not just the Catholic and Protestant churches, but Bible based evangelical churches as well. The reason is because of Jesus and the message of the good news of the Gospel.

re: rumoret

"There are many more arguments for the case of choice, but unfortunately I've gotta eat dinner atm."

THANK GOD..........."

No, thank YOU, in your condescension, for saving me the trouble of having to dissect any logically flawed contentions.

Tell a Mohammedan to to piss off to where the Sharia reigns and he will tell you that "all the world belongs to Allah and all infidel countries will soon become Islamic..."

Co-existence is impossible, dialogue is impossible...

So unless we determine that the presence and infiltration of our countries by Mohammedans is undesirable and incompatible with what we believe in, Mohammedans will continue to subvert and destroy any host nation that they have been allowed to settle in, very much like AIDS and definitely worse than 'bird-flu'...

Internment and deportations NOW!

Nate, honey, take your meds and hit the sack. It's past your bedtime.

NATE:

Don't worry............just because I stated THANK GOD..........does not mean you have to take it literally.

Example: "I told him I never wanted to see him again, but I didn't expect him to take it literally."

Grow some thick skin.......NATE......saying thank God will not make you disappear.

Grow some thick skin.......NATE......saying thank God will not make you disappear.

But,but I want him to disappear

War against Jews and Crusaders are taught and have been taught in Islamic schools to schoolchildren.

They grow up believing they are in a holy war.

This is why Islamic violence has not just affected one radical country out of 30 "moderate" Islamic countries... Islamic violence is now in every single muslim country (including the US) because the seeds of the teachings begun 30 years ago are bearing fruit.

People like Nate will continue to believe in moderates, even as he admits they're shrinking, despite a thorough violence indoctrination that guarantees nothing but violence in the future.

Some people, though, still believe Islam is hijacked by just a small handful. This makes no logical sense, but these western secularists will wish for anything that doesn't require the admission that they're wrong.

1.3 billion "noble" muslims are scared of a dozen radicals? Or even a thousand? That's like saying 6 jerks in Milwaukee are holding America hostage.

It doesn't add up.

The Jerusalem Conference that birthed the Jerusalem Project says it all - and before 9/11. Ask and I'll provide a link. The news media couldn't handle it and totally buried it. Fox News gave it brief mention, but you won't find it in a search.

'Nate, honey, take your meds and hit the sack. It's past your bedtime.'

I'm sure your ad hominems make you feel big, but they're not gonna get you anywhere if you ever start thinking outside of the church.

Nate,

Ok. Thanks for explaining what you mean by a "moderate" muslim. Your definition seems basically reasonable, if not perfect (there are other issues besides violence which are problematic), from my viewpoint. My problem is still in finding sincere individuals who actually fit your definition (e.g. would sincerely answer NO to a question along the lines of: is it desirable to institute sharia as the law-of-the-land sometime in the future?) Of course, to answer sincerely in this moderate way is practically apostasy. As emperor_diocletian pointed out, perhaps Fouad Ajami and Fareed Zakharia. So the proportion of moderate muslims in the US is somewhere between 1 in 1000 (estimated personal experience and 1 in 2 million (assuming those 2 are moderates).

As for Dave Chapelle, I am aware he is a muslim. I haven't watched his comedy nor tv shows. Has he ever criticized or satirized islam? That he criticizes or satirizes various aspects of current American culture does not demonstrate what you assert: "but he obviously appreciates the principles of satire and criticism that we in the West live by, and I'm sure he's not the only one". If he criticized practices of his own faith-ideology, islam, I would agree with you. If you have a transcript, reference, or video link, please share.

Nate-

Did you read Fareed Zakaria's article, "Islam and Power," in the latest Newsweek? Six paragraphs into the article, he states, "The cartoons were offensive and needlessly provocative." Now, from what I learned in my sophomore journalism class in high school, this very statement is unprofessional, since he's not writing an editorial piece. Nowhere is the journalistic use of political satire mentioned. The reader gets the feeling that perhaps there's too much bias going on regarding Mr. Zakaria, for true journalistic objectivity to occur. I remember him several months ago, while on "Today With George Stephanopoulos," shaking his head over reports that many Americans believe that Islam is "a sham." Get a clue, bud!!!

I think Mr. Zakaria would do well to study the writings of Ibn Warraq or Ali Sina rather than serve as the poster child for the American Moderate Muslim Intellectual.

I'm sure your ad hominems make you feel big, but they're not gonna get you anywhere if you ever start thinking outside of the church.

Sorry to disappoint but I don't at present belong to any organized religion.

Mussolini, please provide the link.

Hello there Nate,

Glad to see you've calmed down a little.
Alright, you've expressed your opinion, and I've expressed mine.
But I did drop a name. And that name will lead to other names and those names will provide more info and more names. Eventually, a pattern develops. A commonality becomes evident. A perpetuation of ideas is noticed. But words don't stay the same, as time goes on, new words are used to describe what old words used to. And old words develop a new meaning. For instance the word "liberal", interesting how the word today is almost if not the anti-thesis of the ORIGINAL(and therefore correct)meaning.

See how that works? Language is what we use to understand and express our perceptions of reality. When language is perverted and corrupted, our perception of reality is perverted and corrupted.
You used the word "nationalism". And used it with contempt. But why? Surely not just because Hitler was a nationalist, right? Is all nationalism "bad"? And you did not say;"extreme" nationalism.
Why would that be? Unless it stood in the way of something. Was percieved as a threat to someone or some group.
Yes, nationalism is a bad word. But without nationalism, how can there be a nation? There can't.
Sorry, no.
So what is the alternative? It's obvious, is'nt it?

The "Humanist" movement that you are not aware of is the source of political-correctness. It is a view of us, "humanity" as being child-like, sick, dangerous. They, those who adhere to the humanist philosophical world-view do not constitute a "conspiracy" in the conventional sense, what it is is a conspiracy of ideas, and this particular ideological grounding guides these people to positions in society where they can "make a difference". They believe they know what is best for humanity, this mindset betrays a collectivist, supremicist, and ultimately totalitarian mode of thought.
Consider the word literalism. From a previous post:
There is the talk of "literalism'. As if that is a bad thing. Where in the past the word generally had it's negative connotation related to METAPHORICAL sentences and stories, FUNNY how that has been transferred to statements of fact,truth or law. Yes, that is VERY INTERESTING. What this means in actuality is that ANYTHING that is written down is actually MEANINGLESS if it contradicts an alternate or opposing view. In other words, anti-literalism is a tool or tactic upon which to PRETEND that those words written down on a piece of paper do not really mean what they say, and conveniently, the anti-literalist can tell us what they "really" mean, which of course, supports the anti-literalists view.

So, if anti-literalists(like leftists and Pragmatists) achieve power, everything written before them can be "re-interpretated"(where "interpretation" is unnecessary and in fact is SUBVERSION), even to the point of being the anti-thesis of the ORIGINAL MEANING.

This is what they hope to accomplish with Islam. Islamic scriptures are obviously meant to be taken literally, and has instructions to do so within it. In other words, Bin Laden and Co. are defending truth and reality, though at the same time they are defending an oppressive system that is based on a metaphysical idea. Therefore the only truth/reality-based defense against it(Islam) is to destroy the metaphysical idea, the root itself. Anything else is based on lies and deception, and freedom certainly is not the objective, though there would be an increase in some freedom(there). But at the expense of truth and reality, which means truth and reality-based freedom ELSEWHERE(here) will see a DECREASE.
___

There IS a Matrix, to start becoming cognizant of it go here and read, though by no means does this stuff expose the "One Truth", they provides pieces of the puzzle(that lead to more pieces), and can be verified:

http://members.mountain.net/theanalyticpapers/
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

From Henry Lamb...exactly the point:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48779

A report card for Islam

___

Posted: February 11, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Years ago, elementary school children brought home report cards that contained a graded item called "Works and plays well with others." A "U" for Unsatisfactory on this graded item often resulted in the same consequence as an "F" in an academic subject. The Islamic world has certainly earned a "U" for their response in recent days to the cartoons published in the Danish press.

It doesn't matter that the cartoons may have been irreverent or tasteless; rioting in the streets and destroying property is an inappropriate response. The Islamic world does not work and play well with others – when others fail to behave as the Islamic world wishes.

It is the entire Islamic world that must be given the "Unsatisfactory" grade, not just the fanatics who perpetrate the violence. The Islamic world should be the loudest voice in condemning the violence of the fanatics. If there has been an Islamic voice of condemnation at all, it has been a muted whisper. The fanatics get the "U" for their actions; the rest of the Islamic world gets the "U" for their inaction.

The Islamic world should explain why a derisive cartoon image of Muhammad is a sin worthy of death, but it is perfectly acceptable for the state-controlled Iranian press to sponsor a cartoon contest depicting the slaughter of innocent Jews. They should explain why it is "cruel and unusual punishment" for a U.S. soldier to touch the Quran while handing it to a prisoner, but it is perfectly acceptable to burn the Bible and murder the people in private homes where a Bible is found.

The Islamic world should explain why it is virtuous for a Muslim to strap on a bomb and explode it in a public marketplace filled with innocent women and children. The Islamic world should explain why they continue to allow the fanatics to kidnap and behead journalists and construction workers, and commit wholesale executions in the name of Allah.

There is no rational explanation, of course, for the behavior of the Islamic fanatics. And it is up to the rest of the Islamic world to either convince the fanatics of the error of their ways, or to disavow the antics of the fanatics as contrary to the spirit of Islam. Continued silence from the non-fanatic Islamic world is tacit approval of their behavior.

The rest of the world that is not Islamic has no chance of convincing the fanatics of anything. It is a task that must be undertaken by the Islamic leadership. Failure by the leadership to perform this vital task will not simply tarnish Islam in the eyes of the world, it will hasten a global culture clash that will make the Crusades look like a schoolyard skirmish by comparison.

The image Islam has presented to the world in recent years is irrational and uncivilized. It may well be true that the vast majority of the Islamic world is quite rational and civilized, but the image the world has seen is just the opposite. The rational and civilized Muslims are being represented by the fanatics. Unless the fanatics are isolated by, and from, the rest of the Islamic world, then the great historic tradition of Islam will continue to suffer.

The conflict between Islam and the rest of the world is gathering steam. The rest of the world has been restrained in response to repeated attacks by the fanatics. But somewhere, there is an end to this restraint.

There was a scene in a movie in which the good guy found himself confronted by a half-dozen bad guys. He fought ferociously and, with muscle and superior fighting skills, eventually disabled all the bad guys. Just as he realized he had won, another bad guy emerged, bigger than all the rest. The good guy didn't fight; he pulled his gun and shot the bad guy between the eyes.

The non-Islamic world has been fighting the bad guys when and wherever they emerge. Sooner or later, the good guys are going to pull their guns and shoot the bad guys between the eyes.

It will not be just a handful of Islamic fanatics lying on the floor. It will be thousands and thousands of innocent Muslims and non-Muslims lying in the aftermath of brutal annihilation. There will surely be attacks and catastrophe in the Western world, but most of the devastation will be in the Islamic world, where people need hope and help, not death and destruction.

It is the Islamic world that bears the responsibility for putting a bridle on their fanatic brethren. The Islamic world should either convert the fanatics, or isolate them, ostracize them and deliver them up to justice for their crimes. Anything less is unsatisfactory.

The only news source that carried info on the 2001 Jerusalem Conference:

Fox News

Let's try that again...

Fox News

=P

Mussolini, thank's much

Daniel Pipes has a fantastic write-up Cartoons and Islamic Imperialism.

Re: del

[Nate,

Ok. Thanks for explaining what you mean by a "moderate" muslim. Your definition seems basically reasonable, if not perfect (there are other issues besides violence which are problematic), from my viewpoint. My problem is still in finding sincere individuals who actually fit your definition (e.g. would sincerely answer NO to a question along the lines of: is it desirable to institute sharia as the law-of-the-land sometime in the future?) Of course, to answer sincerely in this moderate way is practically apostasy. As emperor_diocletian pointed out, perhaps Fouad Ajami and Fareed Zakharia. So the proportion of moderate muslims in the US is somewhere between 1 in 1000 (estimated personal experience and 1 in 2 million (assuming those 2 are moderates).

As for Dave Chapelle, I am aware he is a muslim. I haven't watched his comedy nor tv shows. Has he ever criticized or satirized islam? That he criticizes or satirizes various aspects of current American culture does not demonstrate what you assert: "but he obviously appreciates the principles of satire and criticism that we in the West live by, and I'm sure he's not the only one". If he criticized practices of his own faith-ideology, islam, I would agree with you. If you have a transcript, reference, or video link, please share.]

That brings up a good point. I don't think he has ever criticized Islam, even though it would be right in line with his comedic motif. In fact, reading this article I just found, it seems as though Islam had a lot to do with the breakdown that put his show on an indefinite hiatus:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8038045/

I remember reading in that TIME interview awhile back that his faith had something to do with the hiatus but, in retrospect, after learning a little bit more about Islam, his breakdown seems to be right in line with the intense devotion that Islam requires as a faith when compared to other religions. Maybe you guys have a point about the severe shortage of moderates we're seeing.

Re: kentim

"The "Humanist" movement that you are not aware of is the source of political-correctness. It is a view of us, "humanity" as being child-like, sick, dangerous. They, those who adhere to the humanist philosophical world-view do not constitute a "conspiracy" in the conventional sense, what it is is a conspiracy of ideas, and this particular ideological grounding guides these people to positions in society where they can "make a difference". They believe they know what is best for humanity, this mindset betrays a collectivist, supremicist, and ultimately totalitarian mode of thought.
Consider the word literalism. From a previous post:
There is the talk of "literalism'. As if that is a bad thing. Where in the past the word generally had it's negative connotation related to METAPHORICAL sentences and stories, FUNNY how that has been transferred to statements of fact,truth or law. Yes, that is VERY INTERESTING. What this means in actuality is that ANYTHING that is written down is actually MEANINGLESS if it contradicts an alternate or opposing view. In other words, anti-literalism is a tool or tactic upon which to PRETEND that those words written down on a piece of paper do not really mean what they say, and conveniently, the anti-literalist can tell us what they "really" mean, which of course, supports the anti-literalists view.

So, if anti-literalists(like leftists and Pragmatists) achieve power, everything written before them can be "re-interpretated"(where "interpretation" is unnecessary and in fact is SUBVERSION), even to the point of being the anti-thesis of the ORIGINAL MEANING.

This is what they hope to accomplish with Islam. Islamic scriptures are obviously meant to be taken literally, and has instructions to do so within it. In other words, Bin Laden and Co. are defending truth and reality, though at the same time they are defending an oppressive system that is based on a metaphysical idea. Therefore the only truth/reality-based defense against it(Islam) is to destroy the metaphysical idea, the root itself. Anything else is based on lies and deception, and freedom certainly is not the objective, though there would be an increase in some freedom(there). But at the expense of truth and reality, which means truth and reality-based freedom ELSEWHERE(here) will see a DECREASE."

Well, when you put it that way, you and I are pretty much on the same page. I guess you could also call this linguistic relativism or something to that effect. I'm definitely annoyed by philosophical relativism and its attempt to subvert any claims to absolute knowledge, and this is sounding like an offshoot of that whole deal. Apologists of all dogmas continuously try to use anti-literalistic rhetoric to advance their views. So I retract my earlier insults towards you, as it seems to have been an issue of semantics (ironically enough). Thanks for the literature by the way, I think I need to read up a bit on this whole humanist movement.

Cheers,
Nate

Kentim--

I had to step out for a while. Looks like I missed all the fun. You really blew a gasket back there. Glad to see you’re stabilizing now... And many thanks to Bohemond and Nate Profit for standing in for me and fighting the good fight. God save Denmark! God save England!... Getting back to you, Kentim, my apologies for labeling you as a Christian rightwing loony. I was wrong on the first of three counts. It was an honest mistake, however, as the only people I know who are obsessed with the evil of Humanism are in fact Christian rightwing loonies. One learns new things everyday. It’s odd you should fear Humanism so greatly as many of the values that Robert Spencer and other posters on this site so vigorously defend against the Islamic hordes had their origins in the Humanism the grew of the Renaissance and Reformation. I think if you’ll bother to check a good dictionary you find that not one of the definitions for Humanism cited there come anything remotely close to your own definition which is something like “Marxism-Leninism and every other leftist hobgoblin you tortured imagination can conjure, including, hushed breath, the horror of multiculturalism.” You probably also find the idea of miscegenation to be anathema, no? This isn’t surprising as I found Robert L. Kocher on a website that also hosts an essay denying the Holocaust. Your main man hangs with neo-Nazis. Says a lot about you. Got to run now. Sweet dreams.

Raynor

I think this article puts the cartoon 'outrage' into perspective..

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/dec97/phares.htm

It's hard to believe the west is falling for this crap, and it's also hard to believe that the people who are deciding the future of the free world, the political leaders, are the least likely to be aware of this Islamic strategy of subversion.

Raynor - as a good little humanist who loves to quote history (eg Christians are bad and have killed all in the past) tell me in the 20 Century who did most of the killing?

Moa? Stalin? Hitler? Pol Pot? Castro? All good little Humanists. Maybe you should go and see what the Humanists wrote in the 'Humanist Manifesto's' in the first half of the 19 Cent. They declare open cultural warfare on the Christian West, namely through our education systems (or should that be “re-education systems”?). Maybe we should throw Charles Darwin in that list as well, as many a European, atheist and Christian alike took like a fly to cow dun to his “Social Darwinism” which gave them the excuse to kill and enslave millions of people who were not “white” (as white people in this model were the “most human” the most “evolved”.) Ah yes this was called “science”, So much for a “repeatable”, “observable” fact/experiment being called “science”. Welcome to the new Dark Age – all thanks to “science” by evolutionists.

As for your comments on "Church and State" - the constitutions of Western countries such as the USA, Australia, NZ etc were set up so that no leader/party could force there version of CHRISTIANITY on the masses - as was happening in Europe for centuries. It did not even enter the political leaders brains that people of religions such as Buddhism, Hindu, Islam etc would EVER GET THE VOTE EN MASSE in their respective countries. These constitutions were done in a CHRISTIAN CONTEXT.

It's funny how the Humanists think Christians should leave their beliefs at the door of Parliament, but it's OK for a Humanist to take theirs in. And Raynor you have the hide to call us Christians hypocrites?

Oh and as for the abortion "facts" about a Baby:

Point 1. When the egg is fertilized ALL THE HUMAN DNA - THE SOFTWARE OF A HUMAN IS THERE. Just because they are lacking some of the HARDWARE doesn't make them any less HUMAN. Tell me Raynor - should we "abort" people who no longer have their limbs, arms, quadriplegics etc After all they don't have all their hardware either?

You should also look up the recent studies on "embryos" / babies in the womb. This "non life" actually sends out a chemical barrier to protect itself from the mother's immune system from the very outset of fertilization. Where the "embryo" cannot “out do” the mothers defense a miscarriage occurs. So this "non life" is defending it's "life". Pro Choicer’s love to ignore this fact. Besides, when were they appointed to play god? In fact even if they don’t believe in God, just when exactly is a embryo a “human”?

The trouble of Humanists is that essentially they are narrow minded, they are materialistic. They cannot fathom therefore that a human being – essentially just a blob of cells – yet it has “life” is multi-dimensional in many ways. That a Human has “hardware” – our blob of cells. Made up of nothing more than chemicals that are found in the earth. That a Human has a “spirit” – the “thing” that gives us our personality, our thoughts, our free will. That when we die, the hardware breaks down back to it’s chemical elements worth what? $5 maybe to a chemist? And that our spirit lives on? That only life begets life in this dimension that our earth sits in.

Oh one last thing – if Homosexuality is “normal” (even though even evolution – which I don’t agree with – teaches that we have “evolved” into heterosexual beings) why is it if I “poo punch” another man all I get is a smelly dick, and most of all greater probability of catching some nasty diseases. Yet when two heterosexual people get together and have some sex, they beget life? If homosexuality is so normal, lets do a scientific experiment? Lets see how many homo’s can reproduce without any outside help. We can even have a control group of hetro’s to see if they can reproduce. Then we will see which group has actually managed to reproduce enough infidels to stave off this growing Islamist threat.

Oh and as for all "those Christian right wing loonies" - that you insult , they are DYING EVERY DAY IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES, as they speak out against Islam. You are oh so brave Raynor - sitting at your computer, insulting them, even when they are doing more for your liberty than any rabid humanist working out how they can stop those "right wing looney christians" from having their prayer meeting in the school hall at lunch, all thanks to their “snibbel liberties” groups (you know - those humanist groups that 'tolerate' all - except those who they can't tolerate - like Christians)

If we weighed up the Christians who are fighting Islam in peaceful ways through words, or legitimate means in wars of self defense via their governments in the world, and then compared it to the Humanists who are doing the same - well the Humanists are few and far between. But what else would you expect from a "material man/girl"? In fact from what I see, the Humanists in general are aiding and abetting the enemy, while the Christians are fighting for their countries and their freedoms.

Yep – if we counted the number of “own goals” that the humanists have won, and compared it to the Christians “own goals”, it’s the humanists who are way out in front. In fact the biggest ally the Muslims have in the West, are the humanists.

Being “secular” does not mean being “humanist”.

Just read the Henry Lamb article
_____________
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48779

A report card for Islam
____________

The writer Henry Lamb believes that the Muslims should isolate their radicals, but what we are coming to understand - is that the actions of the radicals are supported by the Koran.

This is Mohammed - and Muslims will not come against Mohammed, as the protesters keep reminding us.

Therefore the responsibility of controlling Islam will have to move onto us - where they are incapable of controlling themselves.

___

Freedom and peace means different things to different people.

Peace to them means taking over the world and making it Islamic

And peace to us means respect for the rule of law and building a better world through improvements in technology, by allowing freedoms in thought and religious belief.

islam is coming to Denmark

does the West have the right to reject the ideology of Islam like it has rejected Nazism?

I am asking, since I am getting the feeling that I am totally out of touch.

On the one side I see from historical accounts the well founded commitment to fight Nazism then, and I see the same determination vis-à-vis neo-Nazism now.

Islam poses a similar threat, yet the West's demeanor is one of helplessness, denial and indifference.

Or is what we are seeing appeasement, the same appeasement that we saw 65 plus years ago. That is, appeasement born out of fear. Fear resulting from unrelenting, coordinated Muslim intimidation, and, lack of common purpose and will on the West's part.

OMG Iskandaria are you really taking us up to fools?Asking us if we know what that distorted name means?Only a MUSLIM can ask such a stupid question.By your name you are Egyptian not a big pride,the secondary henchman Al-Zawahiri is from Egypt the place of birth of the Muslim Brotherhood.Alexandria used to be a big city ,a GREEK city with a wast library,until the muslims show up and first they banned the books,and later they "BURNED" the entire library,but so did HITLER and his companions.Mohammad and Hitler have much in common,they were very HUMANITARIAN,killed ppl in a very human way.No nothing good comes out of you desert ppl ,without the west you and your kind will still be eating camel dung,and have sex with goats in the desert.The days of the ISLAM ARE NUMBERED,and the day of expulsion of the Islamists from the western hemisphere are very near,the free society will end up by sendig shipload of "good muslims back to their homeland!!!Remember the days of ww2 and the japanese in the US!!Thats a warning!!!!

Pass It On

Also had just read this morning the article by Henry Lamb, it is excellent.

He has made a number of good points.

In the last few weeks, the mask that the Muslim world has been wearing has been removed, revealing its true self. The violent actions prove the reality that the Muslim world is the new "sick man" of the world, using a term that comes from the Ottomon empire in the last years of its life.

Overall, the grade point average for this community has to be a failing grade because the more peaceful side has not done enough.

Oh, Mr. Raynor,
I am aware that Mr. Kocher's work is discussed all over the web. I also remember finding it discussed on what may have been a "racist" site.
What I remember seeing was some guys who liked the anti-political correctness, but did'nt really know what to make of his over-all theme. Why? Because it lacks absolutely any connection to nazism or racism.
Tagging him to nazis without citing his own work is the tactic of a lazy mind and a deciever.

And don't try to claim otherwise, I have read his works in entirety. This does not mean I agree or believe EVERYTHING he says, he is human and expecting perfection is unreasonable.
But this particular analysis comes very close to perfection in the American context:

Freedom, Choice, and Consequences
by Robert L. Kocher

"Among the long-term consequences of the borderline-psychotic social revolution of the sixties and seventies are many common misconceptions of the nature of freedom, of what constitutes choice, and what freedom does not confer..."
http://members.mountain.net/theanalyticpapers/freecon.htm

3rdtimelucky,

I understand what you are saying about "science", but much of what you attribute to science was pseudo-science. Or the missuse of real scientific knowledge.
Science itself is simply the pursuit of truth/reality-based knowledge, requiring rigid, verifiable/falsafiable criteria. Real science welcomes critisism, and the "absolutism" like axioms in science are not considered real absolutes, it is just a matter of practicality to act like they are. Science knows they could be refuted in the future, though the probability-factor against it is nearly absolute. It is an reasonable application of Pragmatic Truth, but universalizing the Pragmatic Theory of Truth is a mistake in my opinion. Real science knows it could be wrong, and therefore "final solutions" are the work of con-men, tyrants and pseudo-scientists.
___

As for "Humanism", the U.N. is dominated by a "humanist" world-view, and it is clear the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Humanist Manifestos are the source of that world-view. The U.N. impacts our nation in ways that clearly erodes our sovereignty and subverts the Constitution. Denial of this fact is either deception or ignorance.

Good grief...the trolls have been well fed on this thread. Look how large they get when you feed them...and they multiply like rabbits.
There is no point in arguing religion or most anything with a troll. All they do is get bigger.
They dont have ears. The few that do have peanut butter in them, and they cant hear. So whats the point?

I can explain why Allah is not God and why he is the Lord of Matter, Satan. I have done so before and I can do it again. But only infidels are capable of understanding lofty concepts. Allah stole that ability from muslims to keep them slaves.

duh_swami

You can say that again! I have never seen a thread on this website posting board get as big as this one and I have been to a number of posting websites, this site has comments, but a small group. I do my best to either ignore of post to trolls as little as possible because all they want is the attention. The recent Mahammed cartoons incident just brought out a number of them from the woodwork.

Thank you Nate, I appreciate the fact that you have an open mind.

What could have been the motivation of Jyllands-Posten and those who in one way or another defended their idiocy? Could it really have been something as insolent and flippant as “testing the boundaries of free speech”? I just can’t comprehend that level of idleness. And I’m from the third world.

When exactly did freedom become so selectively sacred? So conveniently transcendent? It must have been when European people abandoned God: those at Jyllands-Posten and the other publishing places at any rate. If they were ever with Him at all. My pity for such people as have completely lost touch with the sacred is almost as intense as my revulsion at the result of their unfortunate condition: oppression.

And what oppression is more difficult to overcome than self oppression? The children of Israel were delivered from their cruel oppressor by the force and might of a sea. They beheld that with their eyes but nevertheless took a “caricature” calf thereby oppressing themselves as the Quran says. Those who are far from Allah forget His Power and Might even if it is manifested before their eyes. And when they forget they cross the limits. They are unjust and excessive in their actions to themselves as evidenced in the wanton depravity that accompanied the calf worship and they are unjust and excessive to those who are just and innocent like Aaron, who is slandered by the Children of Israel to this day.

So I think my pity and revulsion towards those Children of Denmark are more than adequately justified. But then I look at some of the protests and wonder- do we not fear the Power and Might that are in reality manifested in the folly of our adversaries or are we loosing touch with the sacred as well?
I saw this commentary by Sheik Qays,agreed with it 100% and thought I'd share it here.

"The conflict between Islam and the rest of the world is gathering steam. The rest of the world has been restrained in response to repeated attacks by fanatics. But somewhere, there is an end to this retraint."

Thank you, Pass It On, for that thought provoking article by Henry Lamb. He hits the nail on the head.

Mistyhymen, your post from the 4 o'clock hour this morning on Al Taqiya is well received. Everyone on this thread should go back and read it because the tactics employed by the Islamists to try and divide and conquer which are sited in that article were alive and well on this site only last night. Like St. Anthony of the desert who fought Satanic demons in the form of wild animals and dispersed them with truth and logic, these trolls fly in the face of steady, repeated, relentless applications of the truth.

Don't let up, my fellow crusaders. Keep reading and educating yourselves. Then educate your family and friends. The truth shines brightly against those who would try and put it.

"Keep the fire burning tonight..." Kenny Loggins.

Could it be that these Danish cartoons are a reminder that in the Arab/Muslim world, the newspapers there print out cartoons that would make the Danish cartoons look very harmless. Cartoons that not only put Jews and Christians in a bad light, but also are nasty in and of themselves. What it all comes down to is that there is a lot of hypocracy, a double standard at work, and as the saying goes what goes around, comes around. Hypocracy is truly an oppression.

Does freedom of speech exist at this site. "No".

Your site owner surrepticiously deletes any id that stokes up the heat in here and threatens to expose you all for the fakers you are.. freedom preachers practicing hate.

You can't claim freedom while denying it to others. You can't even stomach polite conversation with someone you don't like, so since you can't drop a bomb on them and force them to change, you slap a "net-gag" on 'em.

Pretty sad and pathetic epithet to the founding principles this country was built upon. But I digress...

The one thing I have observed in reading the posts at this site is how quick most of you are to incite and instigate some kind of reaction out of people you think are not one of you. You seem to want only to spark some kind of emotion from people just trying to communicate with you. Gee whiz, seems a whole lot just like what those dang cartoons were intended to do... provoke a reaction.

Funny, too, that for a site that claims to protest muslims’ lack of civility for protesting “freedom of speech”, your site owner notoriously deletes daily any id here that he gets a notion to just so the rest of you can sit back and continue your taunts and rants full knowing your victims are unable to reply (pretty cowardly). So you all get a big, fat “F”, for failing to practice what you preach. You don’t believe in free speech any more than you believe in Muhammad. I sudder to think what you’d do if someone drew a not-so-funny cartoon of Jesus and the 13th disciple at the “Last Supper”.

Now, that being said, matters not to most intelligent folk if you call them a troll, a muzzie, a wince, or any of the other sundry monickers imagined in the mind of a bigot. But take a good, hard look at what you are portraying and the effect it really makes. Any one coming to this site to discuss politics (yes, perish the thought, given the fact that your site owner has 501c3 status...) will quickly learn that this is little more than an "incubator of hatred" directed toward a disfavored minority, namely Muslims. Any one would quickly learn, too, that this web site is a shame, a cover for a small group of cohorts who've banded together with one common objective... destroy, destroy, destroy anything that sounds, looks, talks, smells, and acts like a Muslim.

Interesting, too, that you complain and whine about the "muslim agenda" for world domination as you see it, to make the world muslim and bow in "dhimmitude", but you don't hesitate to demand that your muslim neighbors bow and submit to your way of life and abandon their religion.

You people can't have your cake and eat it, too. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom by a small group of people fleeing their homeland from religious persecution. The irony of that is that now you, their sons and daughters, feel you have the right to perpetrate religious persecution on 1.5 billion people worldwide. And, you don't feel those people are cunning or smart enough to see your real agenda.. to destroy what they believe and meld them into your own cultural image.

Now, unlike you, I don't hate any of you. Rather, I pity you, that you have such dark hearts filled with rage that you must spend every available minute obsessing over the "muslim threat". My religion, however, doesn't teach me to spend my time this way, but to enjoy the life God gave me and try to use it productively.

Since the owner of this website professes to be a devout catholic and a freedom-loving man, to him I'd like to say just a few words. Your tactics of hiding behind the internet to spew hatred while pretending to stand for freedom have exposed you for the hypocrite you are. I know plenty of decent, catholic people that wouldn’t share a pew with you.. People see through you, Spencer, like a piece of glass. That being said, remember that Adolf Hitler, too, was a devout catholic. In his megalomania, he instigated the mass murder of what is purported to be 6 million european jews with the endorsement and blessing of the Pope. Catholics have had a pretty rough go of it lately, what with all those pedophiles running around in cassocks, and it's high time self-respecting people of God, catholic and protestant, stand up against bigotry and the new "kristollnacht". Don't let your religion, once again, be at the helm of another of history's great holocausts.

Happy trails.. until we meet again.

Isabella, Queen of Spades, the conflict between Islam and the rest of the world is in your head. Try thorazine.. it works wonders.

Mahdi Dajjal, the law of reciprocity says if you constantly project hatred, it will come back to you. It's the yin/yang thang, you know. But you won't get any hatred from me because MY RELIGION TEACHES ME NOT TO HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT.

Hate is for the ignorant and, yes, hatred is beneath most decent folk.

Now I know Spencer and his web drones will soon disable this ID. But that's fine, because I've got a ton of things to do far more rewarding in the real world.

So, when your posts go unanswered, you'll know what. Another cowardly attempt to silence opinion and another blow to free speech.

Folks, now we've got a new troll on board. Or is this just a re-tread from one of those who posted here last night.

Everyone please go back and re-read the excellent article posted this morning by Misthymen:

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/dec97/phares.htm

This very succinctly describes what the troll, Watching U, (yawn,) is trying to do here.

I like the one about Hitler being a devout Catholic. Sorry, wrong again. He was indeed born a Catholic but then rejected Catholicism in favor of the occult. You can read about it here:

http:www.livingstonemusic.net/hitlerandtheoccult.htm

Patient, continual, application of the truth. We will win this war, one troll at a time.

"We should aim for a higher, more factual standard of posting here. The polemics should contain less shooting from the hip, and more citation of evidence -- by evidence I mean actual passages from Muslim documents, or from scholarly authorities."
--eduardo odraude at February 10, 2006 11:49 PM

eduardo,

Thanks! And great post. This is supposed to be an educational site and I do hope people will put a little more care into what they say.

3drtimelucky, you say:

"Maybe we should throw Charles Darwin in that list as well, as many a European, atheist and Christian alike took like a fly to cow dun to his “Social Darwinism” which gave them the excuse to kill and enslave millions of people who were not “white” (as white people in this model were the “most human” the most “evolved”.)"

I have read Origin of Species, Voyage of the Beagle, Darwin's Autobiography, and several other works by Darwin and about him, including his sketchbook notes. To get a good idea of who Darwin was and what he thought, read Howard Gruber's _Darwin on Man_. Darwin himself never advocated "Social Darwinism" as a policy. Therefore, it cannot be "his." If anything, Darwin would have opposed such policies. As for racism, Darwin was against it and was one of a minority of people in his age who actually opposed slavery. Your claim that Darwin believed whites were "most evolved," etc., does not come from Darwin himself. Be careful of your sources.

WatchingU, you said

"My religion, however, doesn't teach me to spend my time this way, but to enjoy the life God gave me and try to use it productively."

The Koran's verse 60:4 says followers of Allah will hate the disbelievers forever (until non-Muslims believe in Allah only). Verse 3:85 states that Islam ("the Surrender") is the only acceptable religion. Verse 7:177 says those who deny Mohammad's revelations are evil.

The Koran says that disbelievers (non-Muslims): are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (Christians and/or Jews are) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); (idolaters are) unclean (9:28); “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); liars/they lie (2:10, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11) “losers” (7:179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), in false pride and schism (38:2), the lowest of the low (95:4-6).

Sounds like you either need to know more about your religion, or stop trying to misrepresent to others.

'Your site owner surrepticiously deletes any id that stokes up the heat in here and threatens to expose you all for the fakers you are.. freedom preachers practicing hate'.

You should read the whole thread before making these types of comments.

Archimedes, my hero as always.

WatchingU (aka isKANdaria)--

You bring up some good points. A lot of the posters on this site are loose cannons to say the least and they love nothing more than to dog pile on someone who disagrees with them. Too bad people are not allowed to take the level of debate here to a higher plane. That said, I think you employ some of the same type of sweeping generalizations and inaccuracies you atttribute to these posters. As one example noted by a poster above, Hitler was not a devout Catholic (and belive me I'm no defender of Catholicism!).

If you think the hate on this site is so bad, may I suggest, if you haven't done so already, that you experiment by comparing it to the hate you'll find on Islamist and even so-called moderate Islamic oriented sites. Unfortunately, I've only be able to visit some of those that operate in English, and as I'm sure you know, the most virulent sites are all in Arabic, Farsi, and Urdu.

Also, if you can, please direct me to a good moderate Islamic website where I can debate Muslims civily without running up against Islamofacism or xenophobic/racist/religous fanatics from the West.

Many thanks.

Raynor

War is coming, folks. Debate and discussion are useless. Islam won't be eradicated by negotiation. The only thing Muslim dogs understand is force. Direct force must be applied effectively to Muslims and their apologists. Muslims have no place in Western societies.

Personally, I can't wait to exact revenge for the centuries of suffering & death that Islam has wreaked on the West.

Worse is better. :)

In case there were any doubt about the nature of at least some of the recent trolls at this site, here is what isKANdaria posted yesterday at another thread (looks like his original post was deleted but not my cut and paste of it):

"If you are referring to Homeland Security, or the FBI, you'd be surprised to learn who's tracking how Bohem. Let's not be smug and contrite. Aren't we supposed to be exercising free speech here? As a red-blooded American citizen, you'd be surprised the places I've been, the people I've seen and the clearances I've gotten. I'm not saying that "tongue in cheek".
Read 'em and weep."

3rdtimelucky--

You've attributed comments to me that I've never written here or at any other site. If you want to challenge something I have actually written then fine, but at least have the decency to speak to the reality of my written words. Thank you.

Adam

Has anyone else noticed the hate mongering Muslim posters and zealot leftist sympathizers seem to show up most in those threads featuring graphic photos of dispicable Muslim activities and attitudes? I have noticed this trend several times before -- and this thread is no exception.

It seems that when graphic photos of deplorable Muslim intolerance and attitudes, the types which illustrate so effectively how vile, hateful, and fascistic their so called nazi "relgion" is, are also the threads where most of their propaganda efforts will be applied at this site. These efforts sometimes push the number of posts over 200 - with most of their tired out drivel constituting the same warmed over emptiness, false comparisons, and all out lies. These are clearly and mainly designed to divert these threads into various tired out Islamic cul-de-sacs of non-thought and non-discussion...

It seems a concerted effort is currently being exerted by a new coterie of nevertheless familiary and vile Muslim dissemblers and enablers. They are all taking cues out of the same old playbook...

In addition to the pathetic laughability of these various themes which are so relentlessly put forward by these sundry Muslim posters and their secular zealot sympathizers, I have noticed these definite variants above:

"Don't forget about all of the heinous activities of the Christians 1000 years ago..."

or

"This site is the true epicenter of hatred and violence and intolerance, not the Muslims!"

or

"The posters here are the true bigots and fascists, and religious fanatics, certainly not the Muslims."

This last one is the most stunning of all. Few paranoid or false constructs surprises me from a Muslim poster, but the secular zealots are a different breed... Despite the near complete absence of religious Christian zealotry in these threads, these peculiar secularists see Christian conspiracies and subpots in everything at this site (not to mention in the USA, which they tar with the accusation of being a Taliban-like state... Are they completely INSANE? How could anyone be so completely out of kilter with reality, one wonders...?)

Anyway, there are other variants as well, but they follow the exact same trajectories... ALL diversionary -- ALL ignoring the ample evidence provided here that the Islamic Jihad isn't just limited to a "fanatical bunch of fringe Muslims", that the Jihad is firmly rooted in the tenets of Islam, and that there is currently a vicious and relentless war being waged by Muslims against the West, and determined to subvert and destroy the West.

These two camps, the Muslim, and the secular zealot, are clearly both determined to do everything in their power to deflect our discussion here about the dangers of both of these malignant ideologies...

Kentim--

In good faith, let me apologize for my posts to you yesterday. I don't like to pick on people like that but I felt the need to do so when you attacked me first and slandered me just because I disliked the tactics employed by some of the posters here.

About Humanism, let's just leave it at this. We both use very different definitions of the same word. You can hold on to yours and I'll hold on to mine.

Peace.

Raynor

JSLA, my good friend,

Excellent, excellent post! Say it again.

The Muslim Jihadis who post here have been trained to conquer and divide. The never ending affirmation of what all we Christians did, way back when, blah, blah, BLAH...how about what they are doing now!

Keep the pictures coming. They can dish it out, but they can't take it.

http://Knowislam.info/drupal/beheadings

And as for the one on Hitler from my previous post, try this:

http://www.livingstonemusic.net/hitlerandtheoccult.htm

jsla--

You are the worst sort of hypocrite, and you don't even check to get your facts straight. I'm not a Muslim or a Democrat, liberal, lefist, socialist, Marxist, or any other left leaning bugbear you care to conjure up. I also believe Islamofacism is a real and present danger. And yet I still strongly disgree with your thinking and tactics. How can that be if I don't fit into the two categories of subhumans you listed above?

You really need to stop marinating your heart in poison. It's not something true Christians are supposed to indulge in. Of course, you probably are one of those Christians who doesn't waste much time with the inconvenient fact of the New Testament. Christian charity, forgiveness, and love are just Marxist attempts to hijack your so-called religion, right?

Raynor

JSLA,

The troll just proved your point.

'Got stuff to do. See you all later!

To Archimedes:

Thanks, glad you liked my post -- not surprising, because its emphasis on citations from Muslim documents, on sources, on facts (rather than on the free-floating personal arguments so many posters on this thread have been embarassing themselves with) was inspired partly by reading one of your more objective posts, Archimedes! I enjoyed your last post on this thread, too.

If only some of the other posters on this thread would follow your style! The Muslim documents speak for themselves!

For posters who don't know, here is a webpage address for Sahih Bukhari:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/

And a webpage address with a translation of Sahih Muslim:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/

According to an intro page (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/smtintro.html) at the University of Southern California-Muslim Student Associations website, both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are " recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah [life] of the Prophet"

Check it out: MUHAMMED ORDERS A STONING
source: Sahih Bukhari

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 806:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death.

eduardo odraude - I am very happy to see you picking up the mantle from Archimedes, as I was distressed to see him state on a previous thread that he had little time to continue doing what he has done so very well at this site, namely refute the Muslim posters here with their own texts.

That said, and even agreeing with your point about the futility of "our-religion/your religion" arguments, it is very very difficult, given the example of Muhammad ordering someone stoned to death that you just cited, not to be reminded by contrast of the example of Jesus in similar circumstances, when he said (paraphrasing)

Let he who has not sinned, throw the first stone.

Posted by Raynor:
You really need to stop marinating your heart in poison. It's not something true Christians are supposed to indulge in. Of course, you probably are one of those Christians who doesn't waste much time with the inconvenient fact of the New Testament. Christian charity, forgiveness, and love are just Marxist attempts to hijack your so-called religion, right?

Raynor

the Bible tells us to sell our clothes and buy swords to defend ourselves our religions and our countries from the evil ones (be they Muslim or an one else) that wishes to destroy all three.

This is not hate, but following the dictates of God to defend ourselves and by the might of God I will defend my family, my God, my religion and my country from Islam and the Muslims.

If you can not stomach this, then leave America so you are not offended by righteous Christian Americans.

Or,

You can join the Christian Americans in defeating the evil of Islam across the globe.
The Texican,

It is better to fight and die free than to ever live under the satanism of Islam.

Freedom. No other choice at any cost.

Fareed Zakaria a 'moderate' Muslim?

Ridiculous.

He is a dyed in the wool Da'wa spin doctor, doing whatever a western educated, eloquent Muslim does: Obfuscating, deflecting, planting red herrings, accusing the accuser, a little sedition here, a little subversion there, always fighting the 'lesser Jihad', until all religion belongs to Allah.

Just because the guy wears suit and tie does not make him 'moderate' and will even less make him criticize Islam.

Texican--

My Christian ancestors came to this country from England in 1680 and fought in the Revolutionary War so please spare me any advice about staying or leaving this country. It's perfectly evident that your blind devotion to your faith is such that not one shred of contrary information could ever penetrate the rigid dogma that envelopes your mind so I won't make any attempt to reason with you.

I am already an enemy of Islamofascism. I didn't watch 9/11 on Fox News. I was in NYC and saw the Twin Towers come down with my own eyes. I traveled to Islamic countries and saw the menace there more than 20 years ago, probably long before the threat was even on your radar. If it comes to fighting Islamofascism I'm happy to do my part. That doesn't mean I support neo-fascist Christianity. It's obvious that despite your so-called love of freedom that if people like you--and posters who call themselves stuka and mussolini--were ever successful in exterminating Muslims that your next target would be everyone else, including Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, aetheists, agnostics, and even fellow Christians who didn't share your hatred.

We may end up fighting Islamofascism together, Texican, but no thank you, I don't want any part of your faith.

Ok, I have just read the first posts and saw how people talked of what god is the true God, what god is Satan, and all you habitual dementia, so I think I will post this again, as I can't go to the other thread. I may be back later, but for now, I really need some air. And maybe someone will answer my question:

IF THIS IS THE TRUE GOD... THEN WHAT IS SATAN LIKE?

Numbers 25:4 And the Lord said unto Moses, TAKE ALL THE HEADS OF THE PEOPLE, AND HANG THEM UP BEFORE THE LORD, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.

Judges 1:4 And Judah went up; AND THE LORD DELIVERED THE CANAANITES AND THE PERIZZITES INTO THEIR HAND: AND THEY SLEW TEN THOUSAND MEN.

Ezek. 9:5 And the Lord said, "Go through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have you pity. SLAY UTTERLY OLD AND YOUNG, BOTH MAIDS AND LITTLE CHILDREN, AND WOMEN.

[Num. 31:1] And the LORD said unto Moses, "Avenge the children of the Mid'-an'ites.. They warred against the Mid'-i-an'ites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slay all the males. And they took all women as captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. Moses said, "HAVE YOU SAVED ALL THE WOMEN ALIVE? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES, AND KILL EVERY WOMAN THAT HAS KNOWN A MAN BY LYING WITH HIM, BUT ALL THE YOUNG GIRLS WHO HAVE NOT KNOWN A MAN BY LYING WITH HIM KEEP ALIVE FOR YOURSELVES. (which means every virgin female, including little girls)

[Josh 6:16] Joshua said to the people of Israel, "The Lord has given you the city of the Canaanites.. all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord. THE PEOPLE UTTERLY DESTROYED ALL THAT WAS IN THE CITY, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, YOUNG AND OLD, AND OX AND SHEEP, AND ASS, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.

[Judg. 21:10] The congregation of Benjamin sent twelve thousand of their bravest men, and commanded them, "Go and smite the inhabitants of Ja'-besh-gil'ead with the edge of the sword; also the women and the little ones. EVERY MALE AND EVERY WOMAN THAT HAS LAIN WITH A MALE YOU SHALL UTTERLY DESTROY.

Their “bravest” men… that’s rich.

[Deut. 20:10] When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it SHALL BE FORCED LABOUR FOR YOU AND SHALL SERVE YOU.

But if it makes no peace with you, then you shall besiege it, .. YOU SHALL PUT ALL ITS MALES TO THE SWORD, BUT THE WOMEN AND THE LITTLE ONES, the cattle and every thing else in the city all its spoil, YOU SHALL TAKE AS BOOTY FOR YOURSELVES; AND YOU SHALL ENJOY THE SPOIL OF YOUR ENEMIES.

Deuteronomy 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, YOU SHALL LEAVE ALIVE NOTHING THAT BREATHES:

Deuteronomy 20:17 BUT YOU SHALL UTTERLY DESTROY THEM: the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; AS THE LORD YOUR GOD HAS COMMANDED YOU.

Don’t miss that:

… so you wont imitate THE DETESTABLE THINGS THEY DO.

Precious!

Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and TOTALLY DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT BELONGS TO THEM. DO NOT SPARE THEM; PUT TO DEATH MEN AND WOMEN, CHILDREN AND INFANTS, CATTLE AND SHEEP, CAMELS AND DONKEYS.'"

Ezekiel 9:6 SLAUGHTER OLD MEN, YOUNG MEN AND MAIDENS, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

Slay “infants and sucklings”:

[Samuel 15:2-4] Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; BUT SLAY BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, INFANT AND SUCKLING, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

The happiness of dashing sucklings on the rocks:

[Psalm 137:8-9] O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
O THE HAPPINESS OF HIM WHO SEIZE, AND HAS DASHED YOUR SUCKLINGS ON THE ROCK!

Ripping pregnant women open:

[Hosea 13:16] The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, THEIR PREGNANT WOMEN RIPPED OPEN BY SWORDS.

Muhammad forgave children who threw stones at him. What would have Elisha done?

[Kings 2:23-24] From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"
He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. THEN TWO BEARS CAME OUT OF THE WOODS AND MAULED FORTY-TWO OF THE YOUTHS.

[Exodus 13:13-16]"In days to come, when your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, THE LORD KILLED EVERY FIRSTBORN IN EGYPT, both man and animal. THIS IS WHY I SACRIFICE TO THE LORD THE FIRST MALE OFFSPRING OF EVERY WOMB AND REDEEM EACH OF MY FIRSTBORN SONS.'
And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand.

To those who say how Muslims must “sacrifice” for their god:

[Numbers 31:35-40] [From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......OF WHICH THE TRIBUTE FOR THE LORD WAS 32

Numbers 31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep,

72,000 cattle,

61,000 donkeys

and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

The half share of those who fought in the battle was: 337,500 sheep,

of which the tribute for the LORD was 675;

36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the LORD was 72;

30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the LORD was 61;

16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32

[Samuel 4:10-12] a man told me, 'Saul is dead,' and thought he was bringing good news, I seized him and put him to death in Ziklag. That was the reward I gave him for his news! So David gave an order to his men, and they killed them. THEY CUT OFF THEIR HANDS AND FEET AND HUNG THE BODIES BY THE POOL IN HEBRON. But they took the head of Ish-Bosheth and buried it in Abner's tomb at Hebron.

Moses obscure past:

[Exodus 2:13-14] The next day he went out and saw two Hebrews fighting. He asked the one in the wrong, "Why are you hitting your fellow Hebrew?"
The man said, "Who made you ruler and judge over us? ARE YOU THINKING OF KILLING ME AS YOU KILLED THE EGYPTIAN?" Then Moses was afraid and thought, "What I did must have become known." (doh!)

Muhammad let go the Jewish tribe who had attacked the Muslims; the Israelites slaughtered a whole people for just deceiving them:

[Numbers 25:17-18] Treat the Midianites as enemies and KILL THEM,
BECAUSE THEY TREATED YOU AS ENEMIES WHEN THEY DECEIVED YOU in the affair of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of Peor."

[Kings 21:20-21] Ahab said to Elijah, "So you have found me, my enemy!" "I have found you," he answered, "because you have sold yourself to do evil in the eyes of the LORD.
'I am going to bring disaster on you. I WILL CONSUME YOUR DESCENDANTS AND CUT OFF FROM AHAB EVERY LAST MALE IN ISRAEL-SLAVE OR FREE.

Cutting the hands of women who help their husbands:

[Deuteronomy 25:11-12] If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts (where it hurts!), YOU SHALL CUT OFF HER HAND. SHOW HER NO PITY.

[Ezequiel 23:25] I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. THEY WILL CUT OFF YOUR NOSES AND YOUR EARS, AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE LEFT WILL FALL BY THE SWORD. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire

Killing both the righteous and the wicked:

[Ezekiel 21:3-4] …and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I WILL DRAW MY SWORD FROM ITS SCABBARD AND CUT OFF FROM YOU BOTH THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED.
Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north.

Here is a good one:

[Deuteronomy 22-28] If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, HE SHALL PAY THE GIRL'S FATHER FIFTY SHEKELS OF SILVER. HE MUST MARRY THE GIRL, FOR HE HAS VIOLATED HER. HE CAN NEVER DIVORCE HER AS LONG AS HE LIVES.

PAUL AND RACISM

[Gal. 2:15] Paul said, "We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners."

[Gal. 4:22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave, and by a free women. BUT WHAT DOES THE SCRIPTURE SAY? "CAST OUT THE SLAVE AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF SLAVE SHALL NOT INHERIT WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN" SO, BRETHREN WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE SLAVE BUT OF THE FREE WOMAN."

SLAVERY

And they found among the inhabitants four hundred YOUNG VIRGINS who had not known a man by lying with him; and they brought them to the camp of Shiloh, which is the land of Canaan. And Benjamin returned at that time, and they gave them the women whom they had saved alive of the women of Ja'besh-gil'ead, BUT THEY DID NOT SUFFICE FOR THEM.

"Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'. " – Genesis 9.25,27.

[Josh. 16:10] So the Canaanites have dwelt in the midst of E'phraim to this day, but become slaves to do forced labour. (see also Joshua 17:13 and Judg. 1:30)

[Timothy 6:1] All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them.

[Peter 2:18] "18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps

THE BIBLE MISREPRESENTS GOD’S MERCY

[Heb. 12:29] OUR GOD IS DESTROYING FIRE.

[Psalm. 94:1] O LORD, YOU GOD OF VENGEANCE.

[Ezek. 11:8] God said, "You have feared the sword, THE SWORD I WILL BRING UPON YOU."

[Amos 9:1] I will slay that left of them with the sword, not one of them shall flee away.. I WILL COMMAND THE SWORD, AND IT SHALL SLAY THEM.

[Jer.49:37] I will send the sword after them, UNTIL I HAVE CONSUMED THEM (Let those who say Islam is the religion of the sword know that the word "sword" is never mentioned in the Quran while the Bible mentions it many times, in the way that you see here).

[Ezek. 12:14] I will unsheathe the sword after them. I will let a few of them escape from the sword, from famine and pestilence.

Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. GO BACK AND FORTH THROUGH THE CAMP FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER, EACH KILLING HIS BROTHER AND FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR.'"

Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'

For I [God] will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses looted AND THE WOMEN RAPED; half the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Zechariah 14:2, from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)

EATING SONS AND DAUGHTERS

[Jer. 19:7] The Lord said, "T WILL MAKE THEM EAT THE FLESH OF THEIR SONS AND THEIR DAUGHTERS, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour.

[Levi.26:14] If you will not hearken to me.. I will bring a sword upon you.. YOU SHALL EAT THE FLESH OF YOUR SONS, AND DAUGHTERS.

[Lam. 2:20] LOOK O LORD, AND SEE! WITH WHOM YOU HAVE DONE THAT: SHOULD WOMEN EAT THEIR FRUIT AND CHILDREN OF A SPAN LONG?

[Lam. 4:4] The hands of compassionate women have boiled their own children. THEY BECAME THEIR FOOD.

TREATMENT OF CHILDREN:

[Deuteronomy 21:18-21] If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then ALL THE MEN OF HIS TOWN SHALL STONE HIM TO DEATH. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it SHALL KNOW FEAR.

That is what I would call strict discipline!

SAID JESUS!

[Math. 10:34] "Do not think that I have come to make peace on earth? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, BUT A SWORD. "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother."

[Luke. 12:49] 'I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH, AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED.. DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO, I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION; for from henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother.

[Luke. 14:26] If any one comes to me and does not HATE his own father and mother and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters yes and even his own life: he cannot be my disciple.

[Revelation 2:18-22] So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I WILL STRIKE HER CHILDREN DEAD. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds

[John 15:1-12] I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

[Matthew 5:32] But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery

WOMEN

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you."

I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all" (Ecclesiastes 7:26-28).

No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" (Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24).

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14).

GENTILES IN THE BIBLE

[Isia. 49:22] Thus the Lord said, "Behold I will lift up my hand to the gentiles, and raise up my signal to the people, and they shall bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders. Kings shall be your foster fathers, and their queens your nursing mothers. WITH THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND THEY SHALL BOW DOWN TO YOU, AND LICK THE DUST OF YOUR FEET.

[Isia. 60:4] Lift up your eyes round about, and see, they all gather together, they come to you. THE WEALTH OF THE NATIONS SHALL COME UNTO YOU and the sons of the foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister unto you... MEN MAY BRING UNTO YOU THE WEALTH OF THE NATIONS

The nations and kingdoms that will not serve you shall perish; THOSE NATIONS SHALL BE UTTERLY LAID WASTE. YOU SHALL SUCK THE MILK OF THE NATIONS, YOU SHALL SUCK THE BREAST OF KINGS.

[Isia. 61:5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedresses. BUT YOU SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD. Men shall call you the ministers of God. YOU SHALL EAT THE RICHES OF THE NATIONS AND IN THEIR GLORY SHALL YOU BOAST YOURSELVES.

EX 22:20 Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.
LE 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord must be put to death.

NU 3:10 An unauthorized person who acts as a priest must be put to death.

DT 13:6-10 A man is required to slay his friends and members of his own family who are guilty of worshipping another god.
DT 17:12 A man who shows contempt for a judge or priest must be put to death.

DT 18:20-22, EZ 14:9 If a prophet's words do not come true, he is a false prophet and must be put to death. This is true EVEN IF HE HAS BEEN DECEIVED BY GOD HIMSELF.
DT 22:23-24 A betrothed virgin who is seduced in the city is to be put to death unless she cries for help.
MK 10:2-12, LK 16:18 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.

LE 20:10-12, DT 22:22 Adulterers (in some cases) must be put to death.

PR 13:24, 22:15, 23:13 Children are to be disciplined with the rod-- if beaten with a rod, they will not die. (Note: Many Christian parents have inadvertently beaten a child to death following this precept.)

MT 5:29-30, 18:8-9, MK 9:43-47 If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.

King David is God’s begotten son: "I (David) will declare the decree: the LORD had said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. In this verse, we clearly see how God loved King David so much, that he chose him to be his begotten Son.

Knowing this, let’s examine a revelating episode of David’s life.

[Samuel 11:2-4] One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. SHE CAME TO HIM, AND HE SLEPT WITH HER.

So what happened to "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)"????

WELL A BIT OF A DOUBLE STANDARD HERE, NO????

God prohibiting brothers from marrying their biological sisters after he initially allowed it for Abraham and Sarah:

[Genesis 20:12] And yet indeed she is my sister; SHE IS THE DAUGHTER OF MY FATHER, but not the daughter of my mother; AND SHE BECAME MY WIFE.

CURSED BE HE THAT LIES WITH HIS SISTER, THE DAUGHTER OF HIS FATHER, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:22)"

X-RATED CONTENT: THE GOSPELS OF PORN

[Song of Songs 8:1-3] "IF ONLY YOU WERE TO ME LIKE A BROTHER, WHO WAS NURSED AT MY MOTHER'S BREASTS! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. (Does that mean that brothers and sisters kissed each other at biblical times?) I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I WOULD GIVE YOU SPICED WINE TO DRINK, THE NECTAR OF MY POMEGRANATES.

[Song of Songs 8:8-10] "We have a young sister, and her breasts are not yet grown. What shall we do for our sister for the day she is spoken for (…) I am a wall, and MY BREASTS ARE LIKE TOWERS. Thus I have become in his eyes like one bringing contentment.

YOUR TWO BREASTS ARE LIKE TWO FAWNS, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."

My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts

[Song of Songs 7:1-4] How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. YOUR NAVEL IS A ROUNDED GOBLET THAT NEVER LACKS BLENDED WINE.

[23:19-22] Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There SHE LUSTED AFTER HER LOVERS, WHOSE GENITALS WERE LIKE THOSE OF DONKEYS AND WHOSE EMISSION WAS LIKE THAT OF HORSES

"Despite what one poster has posted, the real fastest growing faith is the Christian faith because of the best kept secret : the growth of Christian churches in the third world, and in Africa bigime. Not just the Catholic and Protestant churches, but Bible based evangelical churches as well. The reason is because of Jesus and the message of the good news of the Gospel. "

--- Not because of Gospel but because of your well-funded Church. Money talks thats all.

Someone on this thread said this website is full of Christian right wing loonies...I guess he/she is right after all !! What with all these pyscho references to your God & my God is better & Gospel good news etc. After the Muslims, they will definitely target the Jews & Hindus & Buddhists (as if they are not already doing so in non-White countries!).

I hope (& it does look like it is going to happen sooner or later) the Muslim loonies take out the Christian loonies....then finally there will be peace on this Earth.

Oh..and vice versa too...

Christian loonies take out Muslim loonies...while Muslim loonies take out Christian loonies = Peace on Earth.

Ispanan--

I get your point, but I never questioned that the Old Testament isn't just as loaded with ugliness as the Qur'an, and the evidence you've provided certainly doesn't change my opinion. I'm not a Christian, but objectively speaking, it's also plain to me that the New Testament is considerably more benign that either the Old Testament or the Qur'an, despite whatever flaws may be in it.

I know that Church Fathers were trying to enhance the historical pedigree of their faith by keeping the Old Testament in the Bible, but I think they would have been better off to retain some of the Gnostic gospels instead. Oh well, such is the folly of history. I'm just glad I don't believe in that BS any more than I believe what's in the Qur'an.

As one poster has posted, this thread has gotten bigger because of all the trolls coming out of the woodwork. As I have said, ignore them, because they just love to get the attention.

What's the matter, meow meow? Can't handle free speech? Is this the exclusive hate site of Christian rightwing loonies? No contrary views allowed? Not happy unless hundreds of your fellow drones are dog piling on top of any voices of dissent? Get a grip, would you.

But wait, you've given me an idea. I'm going to start posting under the name of "troll" just so no innocent reader could possibly be confused about who I am. Wouldn't want to poison any open minds. Thanks for the advice.

Stay free.

Hello Miss Kitty Cat Girl,

You are so right, girlfriend. The spew in here is getting pretty noxious. Time for some troll disinfectant.

BTW, check out this site that I got from Archimedes' post above. It describes an American's eyewitness account of the stoning of a young Muslim woman.

http://www.liddyshow.us/liddyfile35.php

Religion of peace, my ass.

Lazysusan~ you Must be lazy, to think such things.

Isabellathecrusader (aka Mistress of the Rhineland Pograms, summer 1096; aka Sexy Assassin of the Christian King Thoros, early 1098; aka Cannibal Queen of Ma'arrat al-Numan, December 1099; aka Mother of the Massacre at Jerusalem, July 1099; aka Diva of the Destruction of Constantinople, April 1204)—

Hugs and kisses, sweetie. I’m sending good vibes your way.

The Troll

'raynor' means 'deciding warrior.

Well, rainy, you decided on the Losing side. Stand Tall!

Thank God, once again, I'm an agnostic!

Sadly, I have to read all of these old blood-soaked texts, OT and Koran being the worst, to be able to have a grasp of the "cultural patrimony" enough to tweak it when it gets cranky.

Islam seems to be King Crank.

(Since the forced-retirement of the not-very "Christian" Church from politics -after the Enlightenment, Renaissance, Declaration of Human Rights, Bill of Rights and printing press all helped humble their schismically competing cosmic claims.)

Islam seems resistant to any real Reformation, because all acceptable thought is already contained in the perfect Koran. (No further thinking permitted, forever.)

The Christian figure of Jesus allowed for dissent, being the archetype of peaceful revolt against dead dogma, himself.

Mohammad just hacked off yer head if you got lippy with him.

I don't see how Muslims will ever save themselves from this theocratic paralysis and conceptual headlock.

I wish they would retire to Mecca, as a people, and fight it out among themselves for a millenia or two, and leave the rest of us to work on more serious things- like curing diseases, exploring the cosmso, creating new artforms, unravelling the microcosms of DNA and nanotech, loving our children, and dancing on the sand with a Tuborg Gold in our hand.

This tit-for-tat My God's Bigger Than Your God wore thin about the time of the Council of Nicea.

Islam has a lot of work to do on its head and heart.

Their intellectually incontinent behavior on the world stage makes them look irretrievably intolerant, rantingly ridiculous, damned demented, daftly delusional and somebody you wouldn't want to invite into a well-run madhouse much less into your country.

I wish them well, while they wish me hell.

As the French say:

Honi soi qui mal y pense.

(Roughly: May your hard heart knock your own head.)

Gary--

So you Googled my name. Good for you.

Look, if you've read my posts, you'll see I'm no friend of Islam. But you've still got to cast me into eternal hellfire because I champion free speech, don't believe in your faith, and challenge the sanctimonious righteousness of some of this site's Christian posters, is that correct?

Oh well, I really would have preferred a one-room apartment in Purgatory, but if its the lowest circle of Hell where I'm forced to reside, so be it. Who am I to question the post-mortem housing policies of God?

Hey, if it will make you feel better, when this all shakes out, you're welcome to shout down from Heaven and say you told me so.

Best wishes for the Millenium.

Your friend,

Raynor

Just keep making those false assumptions about any Christians posting here. We'll just keep knowing you are Wrong.

Profitsbeard--

I've been dodging the flak from Christians for so long I forgot that there were other reasonable people such as yourself on this site. Thanks for being there. I don't feel so lonely anymore.

In one of your other posts, you mentioned that Muhammad, in final assessment, was ultimately a bore. One of the most insightful things I've read on this site. More power to you.

Raynor

Gary--

I am an open-minded person; one of the few on this site, so here's your chance. You tell me what assumptions I should make about the hate written by Christian posters here. In doing so I'd appreciate it if you would also explicate the meaning of John 8:3.

Raynor

If you are not a muslim, islam is at war with you. Fellow posters (non-muslims) are not the enemy. Division is a common military tactic.

We have a right to love and we have a right to hate (quote: Oriana Fallaci) those who seek to destroy us.

No more 'dialogue', no more apologies, no red herrings and no mo kitman and taqqiyya:

Mohammedans lie when they open their mouths, they lie when they pray and their intentions are clear. Unclear is what posers like 'Raynor' want apart from trying to confuse the issues at hand.

Seek yourself mate! (...and if you happen to see a Mohammedan in the mirror it wouldn't surprise me...)

Raynor, Ispanan and the others that are afraid of Christanity, be at peace.

Christians do not mean you harm.

In your life time, when was the last time that an Christian American strapped on a bomb and murdered innocents????? Never.....

In your life time, when was the last time that a group of Chritian Americans stone a woman to death for commiting adultery????? Never.....

In your life time, when was the last time did a group of Chistian Americans murder a woman for protecting herself from her rapist????? Never....

Why do you fear Christians?????

See if you can honestly answer these questions without resorting to actions from centries ago. I did live centries ago, but in today's world as you do.

Your leftists views blind you as it did the communists in the USSR which is no more.

The Texican,

Freedom. The only choice at any price.

Smart-ass yer'mami--

Please clarify why exactly I'm a poseur? Not enough hate for your taste, is that it? My world view not black-and-white enough for you? Also, do tell me, are you a neo-fascist Christian, a neo-Nazi, or some variant of the two? Orianna Fallaci spent the best years of her youth fighting troglodytes like you.

Raynor

Texican--

Thanks for your reply. I don't fear Christians, just Christians who devote their lives to hate. Why? Because hate is a contradiction of Christian faith. Thus, Christians who are consumed with hate are false Christians and a menace to humanity. Please consider John 8:3 in this matter.

And don't slander me by calling a leftist. I'm nothing of the kind, not even a Democrat. Just because someone cherishes free speech and dislikes hate doesn't make them a leftist. I wish more people on the right felt the way I do.

Case in point, why did you feel the need to challenge my posts, when there's hate flowing in so many other posts on this stream. Why didn't you consider the relevance of posts by "stuka" and "mussolini", with their open allusions to Nazism and Fascism? You get all bent out of shape by someone like me and your lips are sealed when it comes to their posts. It suggests you're sympathetic with their views. This from a so-called Christian? You should be ashamed of yourself.

Raynor

Raynor-

As an agnostic (a not-certain-ist) with a sense of humor, the Muslim militants will be coming after me long before any of the "Peoples of the Book" (I gave my Book up at 13, having seen too many other Books floating around all making the same contradictory claim to know the mind of God... which is a pretty big order in my book).

Since I am on the front line, I feel the need to respond to their theocratic crap.

Personally, I like Jesus. Sounds like a good guy. No "suffering fools gladly" or schmoozing with hypocrites.

Whether he thought he was any more of a "child of God" than anyone else, who now knows? And how could you? Those who later arranged and sanctified the books and the dogmas (especially Paul), decided their content years after Yeshua's mouth was sealed. (And after heretic exterminations of the Ophites, Gnostics, Arians, Pelagians, etc.)

Mohammad seems like the worst of the kill-thy-neighbor Deuteronomy crowd. This kind of arrogance didn't do the Jews much good (2000 years of dispersal after yet another failed Messianic warlord got them kicked out of their land, or killing themselves at Masada), after all.

The militant Muslims appear not to have learned this hard historical lesson: you claim to be the One True Truth, and the rest of the world ultimately loses its patience with you.

They are headed to their own Masada.

Spurred by power-seeking psychopaths in mufti.

From the front trench, my report is:

Free Speech is the one vaccine against their poison gas. AKA the Koran.

If they get the laughing agnostics, they'll be coming for the rest of the other-than-People of the Book. Hindus, Confucians, Shintoists, Buddhists, Wiccans, atheists, Jains, etc., etc.

We're in this together. I don't want to divide the Resistance over any John 3:16 versus The Rapture irrelevancies.

Muslims won't listen to serious theological arguments.

Their mind is like the back of a mirror.

Not recognizing that the need for reflection requires them to look around.

And study other faiths.

I'd recommend the Trial of Socrates, The Mumonkan, the Teachings of the Buddha, The Tao Te Ching, Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth", the life of Hypatia, and the fragments of Heraclitus for a start.

Any such leaven in the sourdough of the Koran couldn't hurt.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/thirteen_years_of_killings_in_tripura.htm

THIRTEEN YEARS OF KILLINGS IN TRIPURA BY THE NLFT

(The National Liberation Front of Tripura)

The Violence in Tripura Continues

In our concern for the violence that takes place daily in India's Northeast region, here is a sample of the typical but atrocious news that comes out of the region due to the insurgency of the terrorist, militant Christian groups that act in the area. These groups, in their promotion of Christianity, continue to kill thousands of local people in their attempt to ban all Hindu practices and convert everyone into Christians.(...)

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christ_and_northeast_india.htm

(...) Isn’t it also strange that many of the North-East separatist movements, such as the Mizo or the Bodos, are not only Christian dominated, but also sometimes function with the covert backing of the missionaries? The Don Bosco schools, for example, which are everywhere in the North-East, are known by the Tripura Intelligence Bureau to sometimes harbor extremists at night. But the Tripura Marxist Government chooses to close its eyes, because in India, Communists are often walking for their own selfish purpose - hand in hand with Christians. Does the common man in India know that the nexus between the separatists and the Church is so strong in Tripura and Assam that temples are being demolished, that people are scared to practise pujas, except in strongholds such as Agartala, that Hindu social workers do not dare go in the interior? On the other hand, every other day a new church springs-up in the North-East, every week a new Christian school is opened without facing the threat of any extremist attack. Is it the way of treating a country, which from early times gave hospitality to Christians, indeed, the first Christian community in the world, that of the Christian Syrians, was established in Kerala in the first century AD? (...)

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/baptist_church_backs_terrorism.htm

(...) There is clear evidence which confirms that some international Christian organizations are backing terrorism and separatist movements in India’s North-east. These church backed organizations are providing funds, arms and ammunitions with the aim of creating a separate Christian state. (...)

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/terrorists_in_northeast_india_get_american_support.htm

(...) In the aftermath of the airplane crash-bombing of the World Trade Centre, President George W. Bush has said that America would do what it takes to rid the world of the scourge of terrorism. America would target not only the terrorists but also those who shelter and finance them. If he is true to his word, he should have to look into his own backyard first. It is inconceivable that those in southern United States who collect funds for the Baptist Church's evangelical work in India have no inkling of the end use of that fund. One among several end uses is buying weapons for organised terrorism.

http://www.freethinkerscs.com/articles/christianterror.html

My step-daughter works for Planned Parenthood. She asked me to tell my readers about Christian terrorism right here in the United States.

She said: "Do your readers have any idea what it is like to go to work day after day wondering if there is some Christian nut waiting with a bomb or gun for you?" "Do your readers have any idea what it is like to get obscene and threatening phone calls every day, to get threatening letters in the mail every week?"

Her office has been hit once with a bomb.

Here is what she is talking about. Listen to Randall Terry, founder of the violent anti-abortion terrorist group they call "Operation Rescue" -- "You abortion people better flee, because we will find you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I have made it a part of my mission to see that you are tried and executed. I am a Christian Reconstructionist. I believe the Christian church should run this country. Let’s get the State out of the Church’s business. The Christian bible is the center of civilization."

Listen to Clayton Lee Wagner: "God called me to make war on his enemies...and it does not matter to God or me if you're a nurse...receptionist...bookkeeper or janitor...If you work for a murderous abortionist, I am going to kill you."

Listen to Jerry Falwell: "I really believe that the pagans...and the abortionists...and the feminists...and the gays and lesbians...as well as the ACLU and People For The American Way...all of them...should take the blame for God allowing this to happen [the World Trade Center disaster]. I point my finger in their face and say that to them."

And then there is the anthrax scare currently alarming the whole nation. Few people realize that abortion providers had been victims of at least 80 anthrax threats since 1998. On October 15, following this new wave of actual anthrax cases, more than 100 supposedly tainted letters flooded family planning clinics across the nation. Some of the messages inside said they were from the "Army of God" -- the underground antiabortion group in whose name a 20-year crime spree of arson, assassination and bombing has been carried out against abortion providers -- and announced "We are going to kill all of you." The spokesman for the group, Donald Spitz, denied having any knowledge of where the hoax letters came from, but he cheerfully announced that the flood of potentially life-threatening mail "made my day."

Profitsbeard--

I'm an agnostic myself, too. There’s too much of the stink of certitude in atheism for my tastes, makes it resemble what I dislike so much in organized religion. I’m cool with Jesus, too. He’s a refreshing breath of fresh air compared to the ghastly figures in the Old Testament, and he makes Mohammad look like a moral minnow. It’s all the apparatus the Church Fathers built up around Christ that I have a problem with. Christ’s message gets lost within a huge structure devoted to the controlling the behavior of believers.

I’m also sympathetic to certain philosophical aspects of Taoism, Hinduism, and Buddhism, but these three faiths all have too much superstitious baggage attached to them for me ever to become a believer. I actually incline more favorably to Greek philosophy, which to my mind forms the bedrock of Western Civilization. Diogenes’ retort to Alexander is a moral lesson for all would-be tyrants: “Stand out of my sunlight.”

Anyway, I agree with you that Islam wins The Nastiest Religion In The World award hands-down, at least in this day and age. I wish I could actually spend more time debating Muslims on this site rather than having to defend free speech against some of the more rabid posters (Christian or otherwise). You see, even when I agree with a point that people are making, I can’t sit back idly when they start indulging in a lynch mob mentality.

Good fortune to you and your family.

Raynor

Hey people, it behooves us all to be reminded of what Islam means for human beings NOW. TODAY. Since many people don't bother to follow links, here is the actual text of of a link that Isabella posted above, describing the stoning of a woman in Saudi Arabia:

"Dear readers, please put on your thinking cap and imagine a mental picture of the following story.

A deep hole is dug in the ground. A 30 year old lady, tied up from feet to shoulders, as a stick, is lowered alive into this hole, in a standing position. Only her neck and head are visible. Can you imagine a human head sticking above ground?
When the order is given, a man throws a fist-sized stone at her protruding head. The stone hits her head with a thud. She screems in pain as the blood oozes down her face. Another man picks up a stone and scraps the side of her head drawing a lateral line of blood. She cries and screems in excruciating pain. Since it is a free for all, a teenage spectator from this open playing field, tries his luck, but misses her head completely. Another aims at her and flings it with force. The stone hits its intended target, her forehead. She screems and cries loudly for mercy. There is now a gash on her forehead. Blood spurting out, down her eyes, nose, cheeks, mouth and down to the ground. She cries out for mercy but to not avail. The minutes become an hour, between the many misses, scraps, nicks, chips and strikes. Another spectator flings forcefully at her. The stone hits the bridge of her nose with another thud. She screems again and again. This time the blood comes down from inside and outside her nose. Probably, her nasal bridge-bone is broken, causing the bleeding from inside her nostrils as well. Though her wounds are grave, as you can imagine, her screems by now are not as vociferous as earlier, and her tears help to wash some of the blood on her cheeks. Her vision has completely gone with the blood coating.The next stone hits her again. A piece of flesh pops out. No, its not, oh god, it really can't be her eye-ball. It is so bloody that you cann't really make out. By this time, blood has covered her entire face and the ground in front of her.She still makes groaning sounds. More time pass. Stoning her, continues. Her sounds are less and less audible. Her face has become unrecognisable. Flesh, like mashed meat is her face, but only more bloody, as she now literally has no human face. Small strips of flesh, like locks of hair are hanging from her. Her head is now droopping forward. At this stage a hit on her make splashes of blood. She has stopped making a sound for the last two stone pelting. Two hours have passed. The Islamic authorities check her neck for pulse. It is still beating but barely, due to the loss of blood. A flesh piece drops off her head, as the stoning process continues. Finally,death comes to this lady. She is then left there for a few more hours for the spectators to see, because this is a public lesson for all muslim females, who commit adultery.Then her father and relatives are allowed to dig her body, and bring it above ground. Pieces of her flesh, lying on the ground, is collected and because she has no face, it is put back on the front of her head, and bundled up. Now readers, imagine that is your mother, or your daughter, or sister, or even you, yourself."

After reading this, I am starkly reminded of the title of this thread: "Islam is Coming to Denmark."

Ispanan—

I spent six months in India back in the ‘80s, have traveled in West Bengal and Sikkim, and have also done some reading into the politics and history of that region. I’m not your average American who wouldn’t have the first idea about the conflict of which you refer. To my mind, the Stephen Knapp’s essays you’ve provided are all exceptionally slanted towards the perspective of the national government of India and state government of West Bengal. Yes, some of the insurgents there a Christians, even Christian fundamentalists, but others are animists (the region was once notorious for its head hunters). The problem in the Northeast, however, is hardly Christian terrorism, but rather Hindu and Muslim colonization of remote tribal regions that have historically had very little to do with the Hindu or Muslim culture of India proper. Both the national government of India and the state government of West Bengal have encouraged this colonization in an effort to bring these regions into the sphere of India (not unlike the Han Chinese moving into Tibet and Western China and displacing and overwhelming the indigenous population). The Marxists in the state government of West Bengal even came up with a conspiracy theory called “Operation Brahmaputra” which held that the CIA was instigating the insurrection of the locals in an effort to break the region away from India and thereby weaken the country, which at that time was aligned with the U.S.S.R. It was all a fig leaf used to stoke anti-American sentiment and justify the repression of the tribal people as American sponsored terrorists. Sorry to disappoint you.

If you’re actually looking for a good bit of recent and completely unjustified terrorism by Christians I suggest you check out the Lord’s Resistance Army of Uganda. Real psychos, those boys.

Raynor

P.S Isn’t Ispanan the working name of a porn star?

Caroline--

Chill out. I don't like Islam, and I'm guessing that I have much more experience traveling in Muslim countries and interacting with real-live Muslims than you do. Do I have to foam at the mouth when I say I don't like Islam to make some of you happy?

Raynor

Thanks, Miss Caroline, for reprinting that article. I offered the link because the fact that this happened sometime in the past few years means that it could happen to anyone of us. And the thing, again, that continually strikes me about Islam is the absolute lack of compassion or mercy for another human creature. The incessant whining of how the Islamic people have been wronged because of a few cartoons of their "prophet" just doesn't make any sense when you read about how they listened to that poor woman scream and cry for a couple of hours and continued to use her face for target practice.

There must be something truly demented in the Islamic mind that has no guilt or remorse when committing that kind of "justice". It reminds me of the minds of the famous serial killers, like Ted Bundy. I think the violence in Islam begets itself. These people are brutalized and they in turn brutalize.

It's time for us to help them stop the vicious cycle, with their approval or without it.

Raynor -

Huh?

Isabella - no doubt many Muslims wouldn't want to see stoning, as mandated by Sharia law, actually carried out today. Still, it's useful to point out that this is precisely what their blessed prophet, that most "perfect man" they so admire, actually ordered! (while Jesus, by contrast, said Let he who has not sinned, throw the first stone - and he said that 600 years before Muhammad was born. So much for the Muslim argument that Muhammad was merely a product of his times or that other classic Muslim apology - "Hey - nobody's perfect!)

Sorry, Caroline. I've been getting a lot of flak from people for not being with the program enough. My apologies if I came on too strong.

Ispanan, the difference is that while these people may say they are Christians, they cannot quote one thing Jesus Christ ever said or did to justify their actions or support their beliefs. In fact, just the opposite. The bible, especially the New Testament, CONDEMNS the actions and words of these self-styled "Christians". The Q'uran and the hadith not only COMMANDS Muslims to "kill infidels" and "strike terror in them", but COMMENDS them for doing it. Major difference.

Ispanan--

Hey, don't tell me about Christian extremists in the U.S., I know all about them. I came to this site to debate Muslims and yet all it seems I've been able to do so far is fend off attacks on free speech by these sorts of people. It's not good enough with them that I dislike Islam, which I almost unquestionably have had more real experience with than they have. I've also got to wave a burning torch in the air and howl for blood to convince them I'm not a sleeper cell Jihadi on a martyrdom operation, either that or a Marxist academic/gay rights activist trying to subvert the sovereign rights of the U.S. Constitution while also destroying traditional marriage. These people are absolutely humorless, which tells you something about the state of their souls.

Raynor

Addendum: The instructions in the Old Testament were given to the Jews as a one time order against specific tribes or groups. The bible records these things as history, just as it does their apostasy and banishment. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He fulfilled the Law and through His blood provided a way for all men to be forgiven and come to the Father. The God of Christ forgives and made a provision for reconciliation. There is no forgiveness of reconciliation in Islam. Muslims try to achieve righteousness by their own works.
The Q'uran is seen as "eternally valid" by Muslims so the commands to kill infidels are just as valid today as they were when Mohammed first uttered them.

Wow, I know what you mean about all those militant pro-lifers. They are so vicious. And there are so many of them! There's something in the news everyday about another suicide bomber blowing up another abortion clinic. In fact, I think it's the number one problem we have here in America. It's such a big problem that it has absolutely eclipsed the magnitude of the Islamic rapes, beheadings, murders, amputations, land conquests, attacks on our troops, gang rapes in Sweden and Norway and Sharia induced pedophilic behavior of older men against pre-pubescent girls, all under the heading of the religion of peace.

And I know about their subversive activities. I saw 100,000 of them on the mall in Washington, D.C. to rally against Roe vs. Wade back in 2003. They were so clever! I saw them walking along Constitution Avenue, quietly praying and then when they reached the steps of the Supreme Court, instead of beating up the 30 odd pro-choice folks standing there with pro-abortion signs, they just continued to pray and sing religious hymns. Well, they weren't fooling me! I can tell latent maniacal tendencies when I see them. I know they really WANTED to cause trouble and spew hatred but for some reason, that day they disappointed me.

Nice try.

Isabella - LOL!

Sorry Raynor, but your sneers are becoming tiresome. And your posts are a bore. We all know what you are about here, and with whom you are in solidarity.

Isabella, Caroline, you two beautiful ladies have a good night and may the Lord watch over you while you sleep.

Why thank you Bohemond! That was very sweet! It's been a very long time since someone tucked me in with those words!

No doubt you'll put yourself to sleep reading the soporific prose from the LEFT BEHIND series. Pleasant dreams, ladies. You're in my prayers.

Thank you, Sir Knight,

Goodnight and God Bless!

I don't believe in the Left Behind series. 'Sorry to disappoint you.

You have a goodnight, too.

"I don't believe in the Left Behind series. 'Sorry to disappoint you."

I don't even know what it is.

Rainy, you know nothing, and you prove it with each and every post. The 'left behind' series is a joke and a Huge misinterpretation of the last book of the Bible. It was amusing to read but I find the Harry Potter series to be much the better effort.

Your mind is closed. Please go away.

Raynor -- really now, your rants are beneath contempt -- but since you are a perfect example of the type of fanatical Christian hating America bashing bigot I referenced above, I will address your bilious blather --

Here are several quotes of anti-Christian spewings from your hatred strewn posts above:

"Just because MOST Christians have learned to behave now doesn't mean you weren't as bad as the Islamists back in your glory days. Too bad you can't burn your enemies at the stake anymore, huh?" -Raynor

Comment:
Haven't noticed ANYONE here, Christian or otherwise, calling for the burning of enemies, as you so viciously aver... We leave that to the Islamists, who can be seen daily calling for and conducting such atrocities... The Muslims and their zealot apologists such as yourself will do ANYTHING to deflect attention away from that uncomfortable fact -- attempting desperately to focus attention on your respective hatred for Western culture, religion, and values... YOU are the hatred filled anti-Western anti-Christian bigot here! Your posts prove it.

And to support this thesis, there's this choice little nugget:

"...if it wasn't for humanists like John Locke, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and a great many others, it wouldn't be the United States we currently live in but rather Jesusland run by LEFT BEHIND nut jobs such as yourself and jsla who'd get their jollies by roasting heretics such as me over bonfires." - Raynor

Time for you to go back to school, or to read a good history book! The false allegation that anyone here is calling for "roasting heretics...over bonfires" shows what a nutjob you are. It's an insane fantasy you indulge to help justify your insatiable hatred of Christians... Aside from being off by about 200 years in the chronology of the burning of "heretics" in America, (this practice was already a distant memory by the time Locke, Franklin, and Paine came along -- they had absolutely nothing to do with its eradication...) And again I would ask you to back up your preposterous, slanderous, and insane claims... There is not a single quote you can attribute to anyone here calling for burnings. Nor have I encountered anyone calling an ignorant bigoted person such as you a "heretic". I will say that you are a self loathing, America bashing Christian hating fanatic -- but "heretic"? It's not part of my thought process... Again -- we leave such archaic fanatical terms and name calling to the Islamists and their febrile fascist abettors such as yourself.

And now the icing on the cake:

"You really need to stop marinating your heart in poison. It's not something true Christians are supposed to indulge in." -Raynor

Well, well, well... Who is "marinating [their] heart in poison?!?" It's obvious that YOU are the poisonous hater here.... not I. And why have you jumped to the conclusion that I'm a Christian? You betray your complete lack of balance and perception. If you had spent ANY time at this site, which clearly you haven not, you would know that I have stated many times here that I am a dedicated and lifelong agnostic... Unlike you however, I feel no need to blame modern day Christians for the acts of their forebears centuries earlier, and I find little to fear from them in our modern day -- I certainly reject claims such as the ones you are making repeatedly clear which conflate imagined Christian transgressions (past or present) with real Muslim transgressions today.

You betray the fact that YOUR heart is steeped in a poisonous hatred for Christians. It is EXACTLY this kind of blindness and ignorance which has given comfort and cover to the steady infiltration of other enemies of the West in the form of Islamist Jihadis -- You and others of your type are complicit in the ascendancy of this fascist Islamic menace. I would also add that I am somewhat left of center... and a lifelong Democrat. So how off base can you be? Pretty damn off base, buddy.

I don't say these things to justify my posts, nor to prove my bona fides to hate filled pumpkinheads like yourself, but simply to illustrate how wrong these dimwitted fanatical America bashing Christian hating bigots such as Raynor are! He is certainly one of the most prejudiced persons to post at this otherwise clean, well lit place in quite some time!

Oh-- and I forgot -- here's a little sample of Raynors' self loathing America bashing, par excellence -- this is a quote from one of his cringing posts to his verminous Muslim friends who keeps resonating with each of his anti-American and anti-Christian posts -- funny thing -- he truly doesn't seem to recognize the confluence of his own ideology with the various Islamist posters above -- clearly not too bright:

"I’m not your average American who wouldn’t have the first idea about the conflict of which you refer."

I have travelled the world and met many such shameful bad ambassadors for America -- He is the type who travels with a Canadian flag on his luggage -- GOD FORFEND that any person abroad should know he's from America! What exactly does he mean when he says "average American"? The phrase positively drips with contempt for his fellow countrymen, whom I, for the most part, and as one of them, find to be generous, open minded, kind, and brave... I also deplore the way this type of person truckles up to any non-American and gushes with embarrassment, and assurance that he isn't like the rest of that horrible country -- What a smug little America loathing twerp...

Hi JSLA,

Don't worry about Raynor. He's probably not an American...just some guy from the Middle East who came over to go to school and aced his English exams. He spews the same way the other "pumpkinheads", (I love that one!) try to play Marco Polo with the thread and keep everyone here off kilter. One of their Imams or Muftis or whatever the hell you call them must have told them to get on the site, right after Friday prayers at the mosque down the street. Honestly, they are not very clever.

Raynor was, is, and always will be a LIAR. And I doubt he is even bothering to dig this deep to see our responses to his hatemongering.

But if you have, rainy, know that your infantile antics had an audience of hundreds of thousands (at least!)

Hey Isabellathecrusader -- Happy Sunday!

Yes -- I've noticed the Friday upsurge in postings here -- Alsi, Did you see my surmise above where I mentioned that the Muslims and their apologist dissemblers really come out of the woodwork when there's a particularly damning photo of Muslim hatred and stupidity...

They see the obvious need to enter such threads and at all costs divert the discussion away from what these explicit photos reveal... So much for their lies and falsehoods about their "moderate" Islam, their "religion of peace" and all their Muslim jazz and gyrations....

Did you notice that these scabrous Muslim and America bashing posters got especially worked up into a lather in each of the recent JW threads which featured such splendid displays of Muslim tolerance, pluralism, and moderation as "Behead those who insult Islam", "Islam is coming to Denmark", "Freedom of expression is Western terrorism","Islam will dominate", "Whoever insults the Prophet, Kill him! (aka "I love al Qaida" baby hat)", "Be prepared for the REAL Holocaust", "Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer!", and "Exterminate those who slander Islam".

Free speech in the hands of these devil worshipping hate crazed seditious Muslims isn't free speech at all -- it's an invitation to our beheading... Giving this gutter multitude the right of free speech in the West to spread their hatred, death, and calls for dismemberment only assures the death of very same right of free speech!

Thank you! 2nd Amendment...

Archimedes

With all due respect, here in Australia there is documented evidence that around 10,000 of Australia’s Aborigines were shipped off to British museums in a frenzied attempt to prove that they were the “missing link”. Darwin was one of these “scientists” calling for these ‘specimens’. In fact it wasn’t that long ago that some Aboriginals were demanding their dead back. I remember seeing the news on TV when Adelaide museum returned the Aboriginal remains to protesting (living Aboriginals) You can read all about it in David Monaghan “The Body Snatchers”, The Bulletin November 12, 1991 p30-38. Darwin’s evolution has been a great source of misery for people “of color” all around the world.

In case you don’t know – The Bulletin is a well respected, very anti Christian, “secular” magazine.

Darwin’s book, “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection Or the PRESERVATION OF FAVOURED RACES IN THE SUGGLE OF LIFE" (1859) (note the title, Darwin was a racist)– has been the inspiration for genocidal maniac atheists such as Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot – all of whom took “survival of the fittest” to the extreme.

This is what happens when unproveable facts (evolution – yes there is “evidence” but is the theory really testable? No – it is all rooted in the past – it cannot be tested or seen (like natural selection)) suddenly become classed as “science”.

Thanks for the completely off topic posts 3rdtimelucky...

You are clearly far out of your league with this latest post...

Just one example: The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848 -- Darwin, the obscure author of the seminal "Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection" in 1859 CLEARLY had no influence whatsoever on Marx's seminal work in 1848... Your miscontruction of his use of the term "Races" in the subtitle reveals that you probably haven't read the book --- and are unfamiliar with both the denotation and connotation of the word "race" in the 19th century context. Furthermore, quite some time elapsed after Darwin's publication before his theories gained large scientific appeal -- So your "facts" and inferences are extremely flawed and altogether silly... While it may be true that Darwin's theories have sometimes been coopted and abused, it is deceptive to tar him with the blame!

Any way -- what's your point? At the very least, get your facts straight before you espouse such flagrant idiocy.

This appears to be another excursion into some silly and arcane pet grievance... The crazy need exhibitied here by some to expose real or imagined Western transgressions for whatever reason, and to relentlessly promote various off topic pet agendas is truly tiresome. The relentless tendency for certain posters to foul these threads with all manner of inanities is extremely disrespectful of this site and its true purpose.

Raynor:

The fact that the author is biased or not biased does not affect the veracity of the information provided. There is Christian terrorism in North East India, of the same kind that ETA or IRA terrorism, and it is partly funded by US groups. I don’t think I have ever heard about this in the news. The point is – nobody cares, because these terrorists are killing Indians, not Westerners, so why bother to do something about it?

And why should I be “disappointed”? was I supposed to have some kind of “hope” about Christian terrorism, was I supposed to be “happy” about it because I could say there was not only Islamic terrorism, but also Christian? What if you apply the same behaviour you claim the others don’t have with you and don’t slander me right away?

There can be all sort of terrorists – Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc. And one has to read the words of some of these nutcases here to see that, while they boast about worshipping Jesus, peace be upon him, they think the exact contrary of what he preached. One only has to see the comments about “bombing Mecca” or how “loving one’s enemy didn’t mean you couldn’t kill him”. They claim to defend life and, while they are against abortion, they support the death penalty including against minors and mentally retarded people, and enthusiastically support the war against Iraq.

But what baffles me the most is this pathetic attitude of moral superiority that right-wingers have when they compare the “Western” civilization and the “Muslim civilization”, like if all the possible illnesses of the world only happened in the former. Violent? Which is the Muslim country whose capitol city has the same rate of deaths by gunfire by day than the whole Japan a year? Which Muslim country needs to have guns detectors at schools? In which Muslim country you have cities where you can’t go outside after 10.00 pm? In which Muslim country you have children walking the street with guns? Rapes? How many imams of Western countries have been accused of pederasty? And how many of them have been sent to prison instead of the church paying a “compensation” to the families of the victim so the scandal wasn’t aired? War, land conquest? Who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Who overthrew the democratic government of Iran in 1953? Who bombed Vietnam during 8 years? Who supported all sort of dictatures throughout the globe? Who was Sadam’s best buddy as he was gazing Kurdish and Iranian women and children? Who bombed a village in Pakistan killing women and children to catch one man? Slavery? Who had segregation laws until the 50’? Who had an apartheid system until 1990?

They are incredible. They will say how Muslims celebrated the 9/11 while they were happily chanting “Bomb bomb Iran” as Sadam was killing Iranians with their chemical weapons, while they were rejoicing in the streets as the US army was bombing Iraq in the first Gulf War killing thousands of innocents civilians, while Bush told how they were going to “bomb Iraq back to the stone age”, while American soldiers were writing things like “goodbye Ahmed”, “Happy Ramadan”, “Say hi to Allah” on their missiles. How many of them kept even a minute of silence for the innocent victims of their actions? How many of them ever apologized for all the civilians deaths in Iraq?

This hypocrisy is unbelievable. They will pretend to be horrified by the three beheaded Christian children while they don’t give a sh** about the hundreds of Palestinian children Israel has killed; they will speak about the crimes of Islam while the ONU sponsored genocide killed 1.5 million Iraqis, most of them children; they will be outraged by the kidnapping of Western women by the insurgency while they don’t care about all the Iraqi women kidnapped and raped by their troops. They can make the rest of the world burn around them and not care, but that they perceive the slightest hint of threat to them, and nothing will stop them. They have spread hatred in the world and they wonder why the world hates them.

This is what your troops are doing in Iraq:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/27/iraq/main1248784.shtml

In one case, a secretive task force locked up the young mother of a nursing baby, a U.S. intelligence officer reported. In the case of a second detainee, one American colonel suggested to another that they catch her husband by tacking a note to the family's door telling him "to come get his wife."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,1220673,00.html

“In November last year, Swadi visited a woman detainee at a US military base at al-Kharkh, a former police compound in Baghdad. "She was the only woman who would talk about her case. She was crying. She told us she had been raped," Swadi says. "Several American soldiers had raped her. She had tried to fight them off and they had hurt her arm. She showed us the stitches. She told us, 'We have daughters and husbands. For God's sake don't tell anyone about this.'"

Astonishingly, the secret inquiry launched by the US military in January, headed by Major General Antonio Taguba, has confirmed that the letter smuggled out of Abu Ghraib by a woman known only as "Noor" was entirely and devastatingly accurate. While most of the focus since the scandal broke three weeks ago has been on the abuse of men, and on their sexual humilation in front of US women soldiers, there is now incontrovertible proof that women detainees - who form a small but unknown proportion of the 40,000 people in US custody since last year's invasion - have also been abused. Nobody appears to know how many. But among the 1,800 digital photographs taken by US guards inside Abu Ghraib there are, according to Taguba's report, images of a US military policeman "having sex" with an Iraqi woman.

Taguba discovered that guards have also videotaped and photographed naked female detainees. The Bush administration has refused to release other photographs of Iraqi women forced at gunpoint to bare their breasts (although it has shown them to Congress) - ostensibly to prevent attacks on US soldiers in Iraq, but in reality, one suspects, to prevent further domestic embarrassment. ”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1432691,00.html

“Ramadi madness”

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842
"A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse at the prison outside Baghdad says videotapes and photographs show naked detainees, and that groups of men were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped. Taguba also found evidence of a 'male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.'

"Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts 'that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.'"

The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other”

http://www.vialls.com/myahudi/rape.html

Remember the depleted uranium used by the coalition troops? Now look what it did to these Iraqi babies. Death would have been a far more merciful fate for them:

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/gulf_war_syndrome/uranium_infanticide.html (WARNING: VERY DISTURBING PICTURES)

“I have heard stories of visitors to Iraq who spoke with mid-wives there. These mid-wives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... ‘We don't know what's going to come out.’ "

Ispanan, is the US threatening to behead anyone if they do not meet our demands? Are we mistreating any of the insurgents family by denying them medical supplies and good food? Are coalition forces kidnapping reporters from al-jazeera? No. It is Muslim insurgents who are kidnapping and murdering non-combatants. They are upset because we are doing to them what they have done to others. Too bad. We did not start this war. We did not fly their planes into their skyscrapers without warning. We did not get suicide bombers to blow up their mass transport systems. They wanted a war, they got it. Now we have to listen to them and their sympathizers whine about how they are losing. We did not want this war, but by God we will do whatever it takes to finish it and if you and your friends don't like it, that's just too bad. Islam can join the other oppressive losers like Communism, the Nazis, Imperial Japan and the Confederacy on the scrap heap of history.

BTW, any educated person must get a good laugh at your pathetic attempts to discredit American forces by posting this nonsense about "depleted uranium". It is DEPLETED. (Look it up on wikipedia, lol.) It has no radioactive effects, you moron. Don't you realize that if the charges you are making had any validity, those same effects would be present in American troops and their families? Why are there none? If the rumors are in any part true, they are more likely from Saddam's use of posison gas and other outlawed weapons of mass destruction than anything the US has done. (And yes, he did have WMD's. Read the book by one of his generals that just came out. The general says Saddam sent the weapons to Syria before the war.)

Yo Ispanan! You still haven't come back to explain to me how, if implenting sharia law is so benificial, hands are Still being chopped off and women are still being stoned, especially in countries which have only enacted sharia law within the last 5 years!

Wow, you know, that guy has got a point. In a former life I was a U.S. Military wife and when we would go to parties the guys would all spin stories for us about how many rapes they committed on insurgent wives that week. Give me a break.

I remember one of my friends who married a guy who was a Vietnam Vet talking about when he was in Nam and he had a lieutenant that everyone loved who commanded his battalion. The lieutenant had to go along a certain road everyday to get to wherever he needed to go, and one day his jeep hit a land mine and he and his driver were both killed. Well, this shook the guys in his battalion up pretty badly. There had been other landmine mishaps along that road, too, so the guys decided to do a stakeout and see who was planting those mines. They watched the next night and in the wee hours of the morning a little old Vietnamese woman went to the road and planted a mine. They caught her red handed and strapped her to that mine and she is with us no more. An ugly business, but it was either get rid of her or risk her getting rid of our guys. Collusion there was punishable by death. My bet is that the insurgent wives are aiding and abetting the enemy, obviously, and the one lady smuggled out a note, or somebody made up this story about a smuggled note to try and make our guys look bad.

Remember everyone, Ispanan and the other trolls were sent to divide and conquer us on this site. Do not buy into his bullshit; do not feel guilty for anything.

And read Andrew Sullivan's post from today, especially the one about threats to lynch pro-free speech protesters in Paris.

http://time.blogs.com/daily-dish/

Try this:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/

Gary, Ispamem is like the other Muslim apologists here. They make rash accusations, throw unsubstantiated rumors around and then run like the cowards they really are when confronted with hard facts. Ispanan never did respond to my challenge on another thread months ago that The Q'uran calls Jesus Christ a liar by saying that he did not die on the Cross and He is not the son of God,and therefore the Q'uran must be wrong to call Jesus Christ a prophet. He failed to defend his faith and dogded the question, a major sin in Islam.
Isabella, these Islamic idiots only spout the party line and never think for themselves. (Maybe why they never get ahead and every Muslim country is an insignificant third world nation.) They won't even consider the possibility that Muslim insurgents would wear American uniforms and rape and kill to make Americans look bad, even though rape, torture and murder were main tactics of Saddam's secret police and the Bath party to intimidate and control the people. But how many mass graves did these "good Muslims" fill with the bodies of Iraqi women and children? Let Ispanan (BTW, a female porn star name, Google it, lol.) and the others keep posting. Every time they open their mouths they just make our team look better.

Isabella, you said "...or somebody made up this story about a smuggled note to try and make our guys look bad." Gosh, Isabella, you don't think Muslims would lie, do you? Like they did about the Q'uran being flushed down a toilet in Gitmo, just to stir up anger against the US? And BTW, I never did hear an apology about that from any of the "moderate" Muslims, did you? Lies, deceit and treachery are a way of life for these people.

Ispanan

Tell me how you can honor the vile and evil Mohammed who was a pedophile, child molester and child rapist. Married a baby girl at age of 6 and started raping her at the age of 9.

In America, when we find child molesters and rapists, we arrest them, convict them and put them in prison where many die from their fellow prisoners. Muslims honor this vile and evil actions.

The Koran - Quran is an evil and vile book written by an the evil and vile Mohammed a disciple of Satan.

Mohammed told his followers to sign treaties with those that they could not defeat until they could defeat them. Mohammed had no honor.

Mohammed was a woman hater and beater. Told his followers to beat and lock up their wives if they were not obedient until they became obedient.

In America, we also lock up wife beaters after the cops generally work them over for resisting arrest.

Muslims murder women for being raped and murder women from protecting themselves from rape.

In America we take care of the raped woman and try our best to punish the rapist. And for any woman that kills or harms her attackers, we honor her.

America will continue to try to improve the world in spite of all of the mistakes that America has made.

Islam only wants to destroy all religions and the freedom of all persons and dominate the world.

These are the differences between American the the vile and evil cult of Islam.

America detonated two nukes in Japan to save the lives of its American soldiers. America did not start this war, but we ended it.

As the French President said, Islam needs to be ready for nuclear war if Islam attacks.

Americans are ready for Islam. Once the war starts with Islam America will use every weapon that we have to defeat Islam.

The Texican,

Freedom. The only choice at any price.

JSLA, your statements to Raynor were as they should be.

It is great that we have the freedom to express ourselves to each other, but it is time to stop the bickering between ourselves about abortion, the left wing, the right wing, Christianity, religion, politics and sex. A house divided will fall.

We need to remember that….Islam…. is the enemy.

Islam intends on converting each of us to Islam or murdering all of us regardless if you are agnostic, atheist, Christian, left handed, right handed, poor, rich, middle class, bald, male or female.

I will not be converted. I will fight and die for America, my family my religion and the free peoples across the globe before I ever become a Muslim. I pray to my God to give me and America the courage the strength and the foresight to defeat Islam.

The basic reason that we are at this site is to defend our rights and the rights of all people to be free.

The war with Islam is fastly approaching and it is near.

Be prepared, be armed, be ready.

The Texican,

Freedom. The only choice at any price.

Above, in an attempt to confront a malignant moral relativist named "Raynor", I stated:

"The crazy need exhibitied here by some to expose real or imagined Western transgressions for whatever reason, and to relentlessly promote various off topic pet agendas is truly tiresome. The relentless tendency for certain posters to foul these threads with all manner of inanities is extremely disrespectful of this site and its true purpose."

As if to conclusively prove my point, this post is followed directly by a nefarious concoction by the Muslim trog named "Ispanan" who, with great relish, takes up and augments the false and bankrupt moral equivalency argumkents of the poster I lambasted named "Raynor". The Muslim post is truly beyond contempt, and not worth responding to, except to note how nicely the posts of "Raynor" the moral equivalencer, and "Ispanan" the Muslim troll work in tandem with each other. As is their intention, once again the thread is temporarily thrown off topic and the discussion turns to a fantasy construct in which the incidence of "Christian terrorism" is seen to post as grave a danger to world peace as the Muslim variety.

This is the kind of sewage which posters such as Raynor encourage at this site -- And carrion such as the Muslim troglodyte Ispanan are attracted by the stench posters like Raynor leave behind when they sully this site with their relativist exudate -- Such posters only come to revel in their respective fantasist filth, and to promote their various inane agendas...

So such posts contribute in the slightest way to the discussion here? No. They only serve to illustrate the nexus between the Western loathing creatures who infest the West such as "Raynor", and the Western loathing Muslim filth who infest both the West and all of Islam...

jsla, you mean the (gasp!) Raynor is Ispanen and that he is arguing to get things off topic here?! Hmmm.... that may explain why you never see them togehter in public...... But is should be an easy matter to track their ISP's.

Having just come back to check on this thread, having been away because of a " little snow " in the northeast, I see that at last folks are starting to stand up to the trolls. Good. The trolls have to learn not to hijack threads to start all types of diversion arguments that just do not belong. The focus must be on the issues that revolved aroud jihad. Thank you for standing up to the trolls and doing the right thing.

Not so fast Mr. Raynor,

I think you've got me mixed up with somebody else, nobody is capable of "picking" on me here.
You throw the words "hate", "fascist" and "nazi" around far too often, while at the same time pretend to be a champion of free speech. Let's cut through the crap buddy, you are the one guilty of trying to oppress free-speech. You are the one telling people how they should feeeel. You are the one who is trying to enforce Political-Correctness, which is a Humanist psychological manipulation tool used to program society(like we're all sick, child-like and stupid)into a bunch of nice, pacified, government-worshipping sheep.

So we have 2 different "definitions" of Humanism, do we? I don't base my opinion of "Humanism" on a definition, as I stated earlier in this thread, our language has been perverted and corrupted, so simple definitions can be deceptive and distractive.

Semantic games. My opinion concerning "Humanism" is based on what the most prominant and/or influencial(and therefore the most authoritive and representative) self-proclaimed "Humanists" have said and done. In other words, my opinion is based on REALITY. Similarily, most of the people at this website base their opinions about Islam in the same way.

When one wants to understand an idea or action, one must go to the source, the inspiration, the foundation, and learn the FUNDAMENTALS.
So what is "Humanism" all about? It is about creating a society(world) where conflict is eliminated. War becomes obsolete. Murder and mayhem is reduced to almost non-existence. Everybody gets along and all disputes are settled non-violently. Everybody has equal value and all differences are eliminated. There are certain things the Humanists have determined to be the cause of human conflict. Obviously people conflict because of "differences".
The differences the Humanists seek to eliminate are National, Racial, Cultural, Economic, Religious, Political, Philosophical, Sexual.

The Humanists must first create a world of lies, illusion, and insanity. The Humanist must deny the reality of the NOW because the Humanist lives in the future. The Humanist pretends that POWER and CONTROL or "Might makes Right" is not what makes the world go round. This is what the Humanist wishes it's subjects to believe. This is the PACIFICATION PROJECT. But of course the Humanist is the ultimate example of Meglomania; they seek Total Control of the Mind.
But they justify that by rationalizing that people are the products of any culture, they are just changing the culture into something more "humane" and "healthy".

But there's a problem there. The people, we, don't really have a choice. Yes, this is a very problematic issue. The Humanists get around this ETHICAL ISSUE, by rationalizing that it is for our own good. Humanism is DECEPTION. Psychology is a tool. Pragmatism is interconnected with psychology. The psychotherapist will withold truth from the subject and in fact lie to the subject, if it is judged to be "useful". But the term "useful" is a SUBJECTIVE term, and may or may not coincide with reality. It is a matter of luck or accident if it does. An unwise criteria to base decisions on. Ah, but they have good intentions, right? Well, here's a little saying I dreamed up myself: "intentions do not determine results".

The Humanists have even created their own version of psychology,"Humanistic Psychology", no doubt a pseudo-scientific vehicle to propagate and further the Humanistic political/ideological/philosophical agenda.
One has to wonder, since there is no "God"(or "Creator")as far as reasonable evidence/experience/observation goes(in my opinion), does the Humanist believe that voids the Constitution of the United States? I beg to differ. I propose that the elimination of "Creator" changes nothing. I propose the Constitution is correct and valid because we say it's so. Because we choose to believe in equality AT BIRTH AND BEFORE THE LAW. I propose that logic and reason proves the (old)American definition of freedom is the most progressive and advanced definition of freedom known to man.

But the Humanist wants to reduce us to animals, a herd to be managed. Why? Because we fight and kill each other, use and abuse each other. Truth and reality do not matter to the Humanist. The only "evil" that exists to the Humanist is that which opposes Humanism. The Humanist promises bliss. But of course, that bliss requires ignorance. It requires conformity, it requires sacrifice of self, it requires destruction of the individual. When the individual is destroyed we become like sheep. Inferior, pathetic, submissive, enslaved.

The Humanist is a coward, a Humanist will choose slavery(of course the elites will be the masters) before death, a Humanist will Pragmatically rationalize compromise with evil, a Humanist will corrupt truth and reality and attempt to manipulate the innocent into believing virtual-reality.
There is only one reason I can think of that explains this surrender of America, and that is that the Soviets pressured the politicians by risk or ultimatum to adopt a desire to compromise. In other words, the Soviets called our bluff, or through linguistic word-games they(including their allies here) verbally assaulted the defenders and beat them down to submission. That's what McCarthy warned about. He did'nt know what to make of it because he did'nt grasp the Pragmatic angle. It's been going on for at least 100 years. Wilsons entrance into the 1st W.W. is understandable in this context. What was it? Other than behaviorist psychology to reinforce the idea that aggression(and war) was "bad"(and a convenient boon to the financial elites who finance it). The reality of the situation is lost, logic and reason is dismissed. What about the 2nd W.W.? Was America really threatened by Germany? Oh, get serious. It's well known now that Roosevelt maneuvered the U.S. into war with Japan(an enemy of the Soviets), not to mention the UNDECLARED war against Germany beforehand( yes, before Hitler made the "stupid" mistake of declaring war on us). But we saved and strengthened the SOVIETS.

This sh-t don't happen by accident, there is serious discussion before policy is implemented.
Humanism understands the DYNAMICS of religious beliefs and has created a situation where DENIAL of REALITY is preferred, even necessary. Humanism has created a cult of belief in FANTASY. Virtual-reality reinforces the fantasy-life. Realization is irrational. POWER determines rationality. But not actual TRUTH. The answer to that problem is indoctrination and repression of intelligence, logic, reason and skepticism. And of course language corruption and rewriting of history.

The "patient" must not be told what is going on because that might upset them, they may resist, become chaotic, and dangerous. The "patient" does not really know what is best for them, but the Humanists certainly do, and the patient MUST BE HUMORED(lied to and condescended upon) for their own good. They may need to be physically restrained if the psychic-cage is breached. If the "evil" words(nazi, racist, intolerant etc.) are rendered ineffective danger lies ahead. Logic dictates reaction to realization of truth. Logic dictates defense from oppression, and OFFENSE towards the oppressor. Logic and reason proves the doctor is projecting disfunction onto the subject. Logic and reason shows treating humans as sick, child-like and stupid will CREATE a society of dependant sick, child-like, and stupid humans.
But that's the idea. How else can those who possess supposedly superior intelligence administer and stand above the rest of humanity for infinity? They lie. They pretend. They project. They rationalize. They subjugate.

The muslims are resisting. The double-message we recieve justifies the "treatment" and pretends they resist freedom. When in reality we will exchange one form of mind-slavery for another, softer, gentler kind. A humane slavery.

Humanisn is Marxism. The Humanist Manifesto is an operational expression of it. Marxist-Humanism is an analytical/theoretical time-space adaptation of Marxism-Leninism that lays down strategical/tactical procedures upon which to change perceptions of reality--- the "Frame of Reference" is attacked, altered, and eventually completely metamorphisized into something completely different. A blatant example of this was the "Counter-Culture Revolution".

The Marxists do not rest. And they do not die, it is a self-perpetuating outlet of obsessional disorder. The higher echelons of the elites possess a depth of perception and an analytical mind that simple dismissals or medium-level thinking cannot defend against. They apply their mind in pursuit of a pre-determined outcome, the realization of Marx's hypothesis.

They know that it can be proven correct( the final outcome) because it is entirely based on the PERCEPTION of reality. Perceptions can be changed. And they have. Marxism is not a real threat to financial elites, they know how to protect and retain their positions, and they will Pragmatically adapt to whatever situation they find themselves in. The strong individuals will survive and the weak will fall on the wayside. Money is not actual power, control is power. Our money is a metaphysical creation, and has no intrinsic, or physical value, it's value depends on FAITH. This requirement is a cornerstone if not the foundation of an omnipotent administrative body that can dictate to it's subjects. Survival depends on submission and acceptance.

Just one example: The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848 -- Darwin, the obscure author of the seminal "Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection" in 1859 CLEARLY had no influence whatsoever on Marx's seminal work in 1848... Your miscontruction of his use of the term "Races" in the subtitle reveals that you probably haven't read the book – jsla

Actually there is ample evidence that Darwin’s ideas were not really his own entirely – the idea of evolution had been around for a long, long time. Rather than writing me off – how about you look up the Bulletin quote I gave. How about you look up the Aboriginal connection with the Adelaide university. Off topic? No I was merely responding to a humanists accusation that Christians are the reasons for the worlds “ills”.

The relentless tendency for certain posters to foul these threads with all manner of inanities is extremely disrespectful of this site and its true purpose.

- so don’t bother responding to me. It really gets on my goat when humanists/atheists accuse Christianity of trouble making in the West – when they do far more in the fight against Islam – especially compared to the Islamic apologists in the Humanist camp. Off topic? Maybe some would say so - but others would say this is at the heart of the matter – which has opened up the West to Islam (that is this humanism)

jsla - also re Darwin being a racist. Show me evidence that he wasn't - back up your claim with facts rather than semantics. Whereas I can show you the pictures and bones and give references (which you dismiss out of hand) of indigenous people's who suffered under Darwins ideas.

I don't doubt your point for a minute that Darwin's evolution has been used and abused over the years - and that he may have never forseen the consequences of the masses accepting his theory as fact.

But the fact remains - The title of "race" in his book and the racist perversion of the people at the time (if he was so smart maybe he should have chosen a different word), the drawings in science texts showing the "evolution" of man through apes up to "blacks" then the asian then up to the most advanced - the "whites". There is NO DOUBT that Darwins supporters believed that Aussie Aboriginees were the "missing" link. You may argue semantics jsla - but I can show you bones.

Why talk about it? Because before Humanism came along this whole debate about our identity and Islam DID NOT EXIST. As a dominant Christian soceity we just fought the Muslims. We did not let them in on masse - as we knew our history, not the revisionist/humanist model we feed school kids today.

No, as a dominant HUMANIST society - we welcome our future slave drivers in. There is a cultural war going on in the West. It has created a vacuum in people's identity/culture. Islam is sweping in to fill the void. So please jsla - don't write me off as not knowing anything because my Christian beliefs dare to critque your "high priest" being Darwin. My Christian brothers and sisters in the past and today are fighting Islam and dying as a result. Humanists/atheists in general are happy to see Muslim hordes in our society. Those Humanists who don't are in the minority (probably in the same numbers as "moderate Muslims"). So don't you dare write me off jsla - it's my kids who will be living the Islamic hell of your Humanist/atheistic evolutionary hell.

Maybe Darwin was right Survival of the fittest is real in evolution - we are seeing "survival of the fittest" with Islam v's Humanism. However if Islam wins it's a step backward, not forward.

Oh and jsla - I never refered to the Communist Maisfesto - I only refered to the Manifesto's of the 1900's - not the 1800's.

http://www.faira.org.au/issues/humrem.html

That's a link talking about the Aboriginal remains held at insitutions for "science" jsla

And here is a Christian link to a site (by a very qualified scientist - but I'm sure the Darwin worshipers will write him off as he is Christian)about Darwin's role in the whole affair.

http://www.onehumanrace.com/docs/darwins_bodysnatchers.asp

"Oh and jsla - I never refered to the Communist Maisfesto - I only refered to the Manifesto's of the 1900's - not the 1800's. "

Then what were you referring to here?:

"Darwin’s book, “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection Or the PRESERVATION OF FAVOURED RACES IN THE SUGGLE OF LIFE" (1859) (note the title, Darwin was a racist)– has been the inspiration for genocidal maniac atheists such as Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot – all of whom took “survival of the fittest” to the extreme."

You display a dim understanding of the chronology of world affairs and other's writings...
You display a dim understanding of the chronology of this thread and your own writings...

jsla - show me where I referred to the Manifesto's of the 1800's. You brought that one up. I can quote the manifesto’s of the 1900’s if you like where they declare open cultural warfare on Christianity in the West.

I had no beef with you anyway - I was merely responding to Raynor who attacked Christianity whilst being a good little Humanist. I think kentim’s definition of what a humanist is fits the bill entirely.

jsla - you insult me, yet do not address the facts that I present to you about Darwin, using both secular sources, and that of highly qualified Christian scientists. If you like I can also supply a whole array of quotes from atheist scientists (molecular biologists) who also say evolution is a load of croc. Do you want them? Why? Because Darwin had no idea about the complexity of a "simple cell".

I agree with most of your statements re Islam. But I find it ironic that you just write off any info/person who disagrees with your ideas (re Darwin) even when they present facts backed up by sources. That is what the likes of Muslim posters do here all the time.

Anyway - my initial posts about Darwin and those who were inspired by his teachings (twisted or otherwise) was directed towards Raynor - not you. You decided to take issue with me, then you go on and liken me to a troll. If that's not enough you then hurl more insults at me - rather than addressing what I have written. If you are not going to show me your point of view - even though you are the one who responded - then DON'T! No need to get your nickers in a knot and hurl insults.

Here is one site on teh connection between Karl Marx and Darwin

http://www.gruts.com/darwin/articles/2000/marx/

Google the two and have a look at the sheer amount of info written on how the two interacted!

Marx was also
‘ … one of the first to grasp the significance of Darwin’s research. Even before 1859, the year of the publication of The Origin of the Species [sic]—and, by a remarkable coincidence, of Marx’s Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy—Marx realized Darwin’s epoch-making importance. For Darwin … was preparing a revolution similar to the one which Marx himself was working for … . Marx kept up with every new appearance and noted every step forward, especially in the fields of natural sciences … .’
Lessner, F., A workers reminiscences of Karl Marx; in: Reminscences of Marx and Engels, Foreign Languages Pub. House, Moscow, p. 106, 1968.

like Darwin, Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life. ... both Marx and Darwin made struggle the means of development. Again, the measure of value in Darwin is survival with reproduction—an absolute fact occurring in time and which wholly disregards the moral or esthetic quality of the product. In Marx the measure of value is expended labor—an absolute fact occurring in time, which also disregards the utility of the product. Both Darwin and Marx [also] tended to hedge and modify their mechanical absolution in the face of objections.’

-Barzun, J., Darwin, Marx, Wagner: Critique of a Heritage, 2nd Edition, Doubleday, Garden City, New York, p. 8, 1958.

The importance of Darwin’s ideas is stressed by Parkadze, a childhood friend of Stalin’s:

‘We youngsters had a passionate thirst for knowledge. Thus, in order to disabuse the minds of our seminary students of the myth that the world was created in six days, we had to acquaint ourselves with the geological origin and age of the earth, and be able to prove them in argument; we had to familiarize ourselves with Darwin’s teachings. We were aided in this by … Lyell’s Antiquity of Man and Darwin’s Descent of Man, the latter in a translation edited by Sechenov. Comrade Stalin read Sechenov’s scientific works with great interest. We gradually proceeded to a study of the development of class society, which led us to the writings of Marx, Engels and Lenin. In those days the reading of Marxist literature was punishable as revolutionary propaganda. The effect of this was particularly felt in the seminary, where even the name of Darwin was always mentioned with scurrilous abuse. … Comrade Stalin brought these books to our notice. The first thing we had to do, he would say, was to become atheists. Many of us began to acquire a materialist outlook and to ignore theological subjects. Our reading in the most diverse branches of science not only helped our young people to escape from the bigoted and narrow-minded spirit of the seminary, but also prepared their minds for the reception of Marxist ideas. Every book we read, whether on archaeology, geology, astronomy, or primitive civilization, helped to confirm us the truth of Marxism.’

Yaroslavsky, E., Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow, pp. 8-9, 1940.

I could sit here all day giving info on the influence that Marx drew from Darwin jsla - but I suspect that you will just sit there hurling insults.

It's Ok jsla - I'm sure all these authors are also dim witted. By the way - how many books have you had published on the topic??