Bishop Fisichella really seems to understand the dimensions of this problem -- far better than most: "Not only is the destiny of Christian minorities living in the Muslim world at stake, but everyone's freedom..."
"Vatican: Leading Bishop Condemns Silence Over Anti-Christian Violence," from AKI, with thanks to Twostellas:
Rome, 20 Feb. (AKI) - A leading Italian bishop has slammed as "unacceptable" the silence of states and international organisations over the fate of Christian minorities in Muslim states in an interview published on Monday. Auxiliary bishop Rino Fisichella of Rome told Italy's best-selling daily Corriere della Sera that, "not only is the destiny of Christian minorities living in the Muslim world at stake, but everyone's freedom, the way they can exercise such freedom and the civility of international relations." Fisichella, who is also the dean of the Lateran Pontifical University, added that it was the duty of state governments and international organisation "to implement the principle of reciprocity."...Commenting the demonstrations, Fisichella said that, "these episodes stress how difficult it is for Muslim socities to accept the principle of religious freedom which is for us a acquired right."
"It's hard to understand why these societies fear freedom and are afraid of Christians who preach fraternity and forgiveness," added the bishop.
In a reference to the murder on 5 February of an Italian priest, Andrea Santoro, in Turkey, allegedly killed by a Muslim radical, Fisichella also noted that, "it is impossible to put on the same level a cartoon and the murder of a priest."
- "The pope? How many divisions does he have?" (Said by Joseph Stalin sarcastically to Churchill)-
Noble euro squeaks from the land of the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.
Thank goodness, somebody is speaking up. Why are Moslems going so completely insane over cartoons? How many Moslems have actually seen the pictures to determine for themselves the nature of the "insult?" Where is the simple human capacity to be measured and proportionate in response?
The Bishop's comments underline the insanity gripping large parts of the Moslem world. How can anyone 1) threaten anyone for cartoon, 2) attack churches on the pretext that, as Christians, these church congregations must have had something to do with the cartoons and 3) fail to see the irony in acting out in the very manner the cartoons were lampooning?
Good for the Bishop, speaking out clearly and distinctly, not with anger or arrogance, but in simple dedication to the truth. Let the Moslem world look to what conscience it might have and reflect on the poverty its belief system that bullies and threatens as a way of pleasing their god.
Compare and contrast the Archbishop of Canterbury speaking to teh WCC today:
Rowan Williams addresses the WCC
"Yet what is remarkable is the courage with which Christians continue - in Egypt, in Pakistan, in the Balkans, even in Iraq - to seek ways of continuing to work alongside non-Christian neighbours."
This is modern Anglicanism - a fading affair of jumble-sales and jam and trying to offend no one. There's nothing unpleasant or untrue in anything Williams says, but it is so woefully inadequate. While he'll flirt with multiculturalism and the left-liberal agenda, he will occasionally speak against anti-Semitism and even mention the persecution of Christians in Africa. But reading his prose is like swimming through wet cotton wool. He can discuss mass murder and the attempted elimination of whole communities as if they were unfortunate distractions that could potentially spoil the atnmosphere in the inter-faith dialogue with the Muslims.
The Christian community in Iraq that he mentions, for example (like the Jewish one) has been virtually eliminated. While he's burbling about people's efforts to cooperate, they're being jihaded out of existence.
Yojimbo
Too damned true. It is not just in Iraq but throuighout the muslim world.
In a fair world we should exchange "our" muslim tenants with Christians from msu7lim nations. They will have no trouble integrating. In fact no government monies and subsidy will be rquired for integation - it will happen naturally.
I'm all in favour of integration. I'm in favour of integration of "our" muslims in society ---- im muslim lands where they will have no problem.
"It's hard to understand why these societies fear freedom and are afraid of Christians who preach fraternity and forgiveness."
Why are they afraid? Because they know that in the free marketplace of ideas: Islam cannot compete.
As if only a few learned anything from the rise of the NAZIS. Say nothing now, get nothing later.
Chatillon, you said, "The Bishop's comments underline the insanity gripping large parts of the Moslem world."
Actually, the whole Islam is insane!
There is nothing healthy about their whole belief system. That so many people have this belief says a lot about our human credibility.
Check the Koran. I read it and I came to the conclusion that only those who are crazy could believe such B.S.
A sign of sanity would be for a born Muslim to drop out, run away from their society, and become an apostate.
Enjoy the evil book. I have several copies and I cannot yet figure out how come people belief this garbage. Are they crazy? I guess so.
It's time to fight back. We must get ahead. Please read my statement on PIA CAUSA.
quote: "Until Muslims worldwide start fighting the Iran hangings, the Saudi slaughters, the islamic terrorists of Gaza, the bin Laden supporters and bin Laden himself in the name of their beloved prophet, - until then I shall not for one second call them anything but a bunch of religious hypocrites.
Muslims worldwide must split up in democrats - and the rest. The democrats among you must start to speak out against your own, instead of supporting them against us."
I'm Danish, I'm in contact with some papers, - time to get moving on a world scale.
Westman,
Have you read any Hadith? I've picked at the Quran, but it is the same thing over and over again. I skim it and try to tease out the highlights. But the Hadith, what I have read of them, are actual stories of events.
I've just now ordered Reliance of the Traveller. My feeling is this will tell me a lot more about Islam than the Quran, kind of like how the Talmud will tell you a lot more about Judaism than the Torah. Here is a description, shamelessly ripped from Amazon:
The new edition of the in-depth manual of Islamic law based on the Shafi'i school of thought, with a detalied index and commentary on specific rulings. 1,200 pages in an exceptional binding with Arabic and facing English text in two column format with occasional diagrams. 'Umdat al-Salik wa 'Uddat al-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and tools of the Worshipper) is a classic manual of fiqh. It represents the fiqh rulings according to the Shafi'I school of jurisprudence. The appendices form an integral part of the book and present original texts and translations from classic works by prominent scholars such as al-Ghazali, Ibn Qudamah, al-Nawawi, al-Qurturbi, al-Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar and other, on topics of Islamic law, faith, spirituality, Qur'anic exegesis and Hadith sciences. It has also biographical notes about every person mentioned (391 biographies) , bibliography of each work cited (136 works), and a detailed subject index (95 pages). Of the 136 works drawn upon in its commentary and appendices, 134 are in the original Arabic. The sections and paragraphs have been numbered to facilitate cross-reference.
Look forward to all sorts of quotes from Reliance of the Traveller!
Quijybo
In a google search type:
"whats wrong with islam"
makes for very interesting reading.
A thoughtful article by David Warren
A truth exposed
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=573
It is good to learn of a bishop who is speaking the truth. The Vatican needs to take the lead on the defense of Christianity, both speaking forcefully to Muslim leaders and educating Christians on the history of Muslim persecution. Bat Ye'Or's book would be a good textbook along with Mr. Spencer's books. Churches in the West could "link" with churches in the Muslim world, to offer support, with money, visits and moral support. Let the Christians know that they are not forgotten in the hostile, hateful "Muslim" lands in which they exist.
But the Hadith, what I have read of them, are actual stories of events.
I'm refer you especially to the second of these two most fundamental of all basics tenets of Islam:
1) The Koran is the literal word of God, not open to human interpretation of any kind.
2) In the Koran, God commands to all Moslems that "You have indeed in Allah’s Messenger an excellent pattern of conduct for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and who engages much in the praise of Allah."
God commands emulation of the Sunnah. Put another way, God demands that all Moslems be the lowest form of scum humanly possibly, and I place several legalistic and biochemica provisos here around the word humanly.
DP111,
Thank you for the article by David Warren. When people complain about Christianity, they really need to contemplate what that article says. There is something very real, yet seemingly untouchable that draws Catholics who choose it, to a contemplative life. To those who are caught up in the world, or are embittered by some misunderstanding in their past, they miss the silent touch, the peace that surpasses all understanding. Thanks for sharing a glimpse.
Have there been any attempts by people in the West previously belonging to Christian communities in Dar ul-Islam to sue their 'Fatherland' for the treatment that made them run for their lives? I think some Jews are trying to get compensation for the stolen property. Libyan leader Qadhafi has even acknowledged that the formerly Libyan Jews deserve some compensation...
Is it just possible that a conservative, strong, Pope Benedict will answer the call and save Christianity and the West?
"Is it just possible that a conservative, strong, Pope Benedict will answer the call and save Christianity and the West?"
Save the west with what? Harsh words?
No, he is busy making sure that no one uses birth prevention and that homosexuality is seen as a crime against god. Sounds more like an ally of the muslims than an enemy, in my ears.
I just had to respond for two reasons. First of all to 'Expatriate': Homosexuality, birth control and abortion are some of the major reasons why Europe's population has shrunk and why the Islamic population has grown. You only have to realize what the odds mean there.
Before you come out with your biases, perhaps you should educate yourself first. You can start with the latest civil suit in the US because of Depo-Provera and then study the statistics regarding condom use as only a means for the pharmaceutical industry to get rich and make stock-holders happy. It has not reduced pregnancies because people will not use them.
Secondly, perhaps you should research how this culture of death is now trying to come to terms with the imbalance of generational differences and how that will affect seniors being able to retire when the previous two generations have been aborted or shrunk in the birth rate.
Read about the crisis in India and China because there are too many men and not enough women because of aborting them all. Too late to learn? Do you homework. Oh, and by the way, what is your church doing in order to help those who are being treated unjustly in Muslim countries?
My second response is, if anyone is interested in helping to support Christians in these countries, you may want to check out www.ccfc.ie.
Regards,
PJ
Expatriate_DK hates Islam not because it is violent but because it claims to be a religion. He is typical of those who value the freedom to fuck each other in the arse more than life, liberty and the continuation of civilization. He is a troll and must be ignored.
The people who ask whether the Pope will repeat what Bishop Fisichella said do not seem to have noticed that Bishop Fisichella is an auxiliary Bishop of Rome - that is, as close to the Pope (and to the Pope's leading ally, Cardinal Ruini, vicar of Rome) as is possible to be. He would not in a million years made a statement like that without Papal approval. The Pope cannot speak in such terms himself without endangering the lives of every Christian in Muslim countries - if they did what they did over a few cartoons, what would they do if the head of Christianity condemned them in so many words? - but this statement is from him, and anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church would realize it.
I'm not Catholic, but I've got to give it to him. He's telling it like it is. As a minister myself, I often come into conflict at my own church with members that have relatives that are apart of the Nation of Islam here in the States. I'm the only minister that will tell it like it is about Islam over the pulpit. I don't claim a denomination, but I fellowship with a Baptist church. The pastor takes a non agressive approach on the issue. I have no reservations when it comes to Islam. Can't help it. It's the Marine in me. I've even had three rows of Muslims family members walk out on me in mid sermon because of what I've said about true Islam. And trust me, when it comes to the black comunity and the Black Muslims of the Nation of Islam, you are inviting death threats into your life. But yet just like this priest, true Christians must keep the faith and keep exposing Islam for the fraud that it is.
To anyone who can read Italian - or would like to try - this is the link to the original interview: http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Esteri/2006/02_Febbraio/20/accattoli.shtml
It is actually even stronger than the report. Every word of it - except the demand that international organizations should take a morally decent position - could come from JihadWatch.
Isabellathecrusader
You are welcome. Keep any eye on Warren's site. I have read his columns for 4 years or more, and he is a thoughtful writer. He spent his childhood in lahore BTW.
This is unaceptable, another priest was killed in Nigeria, with 44 other christians, and the goverments have to say something now, they have weapons to answer and pressure, we can´t.
An intersting aside, the cause for beatification of Andrea Santoro, the Italian priest who was martyred in Turkey, has already been formally introduced to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. His cause was introduced by Cardinal Soldano, the same cardinal who officially announced Benedict's election.
His cause of beatification will give much needed ammo in the struggle to show the true nature of Islam.
I do not think Pope Benedict will go quietly into the night (as will many heads of state).
Given a choice between between Chirac, Blair, Merkel, Bush, the heads of any protestant church or the Pope who would you say could issue an effective call to arms in defense of Christianity which would transcend political and religious boundaries?
When all is said and done, it'll be the Pope.
PJ,
Amen!!
Cause and effect, people. Cause and effect.
DP111,
Gotcha! Thanks.
Muslims always like to say, they have ‘no problem’ with Jesus,
Since, in Islam; Jesus is recognized as one of the Prophets…
Jesus was a peacemaker, not just some guy found in supernatural scenes.
Where in the Koran, is one able to read, the principals & parables of peace
for all of humanity, such as the principals found in Luke Chapter 6, i.e., love for enemies, do not judge others, a healthy tree bears good fruit, the house built on a rock…
Any world religion, lacking a consistent discussion of morals, ethics, & peace, for mankind, (as in the image of a peaceful Creator) as a primary issue, rather then a secondary issue, or some other lower rank, has extinguished itself of credibility.
All human societies, may draft a civil code, representing their citizen’s political & social rights. Religions are no longer required for this task. Islam has ceased to be relevant, in this manner. Those, who find themselves, identified as Muslims, by birth or some other means, must begin to get a handle on this dilemma, the ancient & barbaric practice of Sharia Law, is no longer required. Civil law is necessary, to separate religion from government. Create civil laws, & topple the Imams, Clerics, & Mullahs, down from their pedestals of oppression.
Rumor has it that biological experiements which have been secretly conducted for years in the basement of the Vatican are beginning to yield results. Vatican insiders have hinted that the research focused on miraculous breakthroughs which may permit the generation and growth of spines in holy prelates where formerly there were none. Recent pronouncements from the Vatican seem to indicate that the research may have already yielded positive results among certain clergy -- while some skeptics maintain that nothing has changed. Others believe recent pronouncements from various Vatican spokepersons simply indicate that the clergy is finally waking up from a long slumber, opening its eyes, and seeing the Muslim Menace the way it truly is, not the way Christians would like it to be...
JSLA,
I love it!!