Eurabia Alert from Aftenposten, with thanks to Andrew Bostom:
Norway needs anti-blasphemy regulations to protect minorities against derisive and hateful expression, says lawyer Abid Q Raja."The point is not to restrict freedom of speech but to give it direction so that weak groups do not feel insulted or mocked. If we do nothing the differences within Norwegian society will increase in the future," Raja told newspaper Dagsavisen.
Raja's statement comes after the new wave of controversy surrounding caricatures of the prophet Mohammed, first published in Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten last September and now recently in the Norwegian Christian weekly Magazinet.
Raja said he perceives the caricatures as a clear insult of Muslims and their faith.
"I would like a new blasphemy regulation that defines limits for what type of offensive expression shall be allowed towards society's minorities," Raja said.
Would it then be "blasphemy" to approve of pedophilia, 'sanctified' lying, "divine calls" for assassination and terrorism in the name of a "God"?
I didn't think so.
Blasphemy is a stricly religious concept, if written into law what if someone blasphemes aginst the FSM?
May I kill those who hate pasta?
Can I portray non-pasta eaters as hell-bound
Islam must be destroyed.
This incident has pushed me over the line.
"If we do nothing the differences within Norwegian society will increase in the future," Raja told newspaper Dagsavisen."
Sounds like a threat to me.
Deport them all and let nature take it's course.
Let's see..there are basphemy laws in "Islamic countries" because Islam is the religion of the majority and represents the masses of Muslims. In Norway, blasphemy laws are needed to protect "society's minorities." (read Muslims) Islam must rule, whether the majority or minority of a population follows it. For added measure, Muslims are always the victims too; In "Islamic" countries, they are victims of the evil, greedy Westerners/kafirs. In Western countries, they are also the victims of the evil, greedy Westerners/kafirs. The formula is so simple. I wonder when the Western elites will figure it out?
" I wonder when the Western elites will figure it out?"
When the knife is at thier throat.
No one want's to think tha billions want to kill them and the only reason they don't is because they can't, just yet.
The delay of almost one month between publication of the offensive cartoons and the Muslim outrage has interesting timing considering all the Danish flags that have spontaneously combusted.
Do you have a Danish flag in the attic or stored somewhere? I need to burn it.
Hmm...guess we better stock up before we go public with any rioting.
Iran goes to the Security Council, and theses riots give the news an excuse to look elsewhere when the deadlock to sanctions rears its ugly head.
Naw, can't be. They wouldn't do that, would they?
My bet is that Rabid Q. Raja has a sample of the regulations he would like to see imposed on behalf of the Muslim minority, in his pocket.
On another note: When I see Muslims burning the American flag, it doesn't faze me a bit. Old Glory is *supposed* to be torched, when it comes into contact with dirt.
"The delay of almost one month between publication of the offensive cartoons and the Muslim outrage..."
--- from a posting above
Not "one month." Four months have gone by since the cartoons were published in Jyllends-Posten.
Fine
I WANT and DEMAND..
Protection FROM ISLAM for ALL Jews and Christians
Religious Profiling of AL MUSLIMS...
Ban the Evil Koran
Ban Islam as a Disease and list all muslims on the no fly list
Ban ALL Islamic Organizations and round up ALL their terrorist loving supporters and Ship them all to IRAN...
Stop ALL technology transfers to any islamic country
Stop ALL Islamic countries from sending their students to study in the WEST...
Hey the Koran is so wise let the Muslims use that for their scientific research..
RO ALL Americans i say this..
While during wwII we did intern the japanese and for 60 years afterwards we wresteled with the aftermath...
We are Under attack
From outside by Islamic Terrorists
From Inside by Islic Organizations
From Inside by Liberals helping known islamic terrorists..
From the Inside by the Liberal Media
I ask you this..
Whith the Liberals and the media working with islamic terrorists..
Whith the ACLU and others Helping Islamic Terrorists..
With the UN Protecting Islam and Islamo Faschism..
Do YOU REALLY TRUST ANY LIBERAL NOW???
How can you TRUST ANY Liberal media outlet, Liberal Organization, Liberal Politician or ANY Politicians who does not Place our Freedom above their on personal agenda..
I DONT...
http://www.jimgoism.blogspot.com
I think the Saudis are behind all this. The recent stampede in Mecca not to mention that hostel falling down has caused them much embarrassment. What to do. OH yeah.... focus everyone's attention and rage on someone else.
I sure would have liked to be able to take a look at the protesters id cards. How many were actually carrying them I wonder.
The second thought I have about the Saudis being behind it is the cartoon rage is supposed to set up justifiable cause for the next muslim outrage. They're already floating the idea "SEE what you made us do?"
Hmmm maybe we should get such a law in Denmark too? As far as I know there are more than 500 religious groups in Denmark - I guess they all have something to contribute with regarding the purification of my newspaper... but why stop there? Im an atheist and I to get offended by a lot of religious bullshit in the news - so here is my idea: a complete ban on ANY talk of religion in the news. To mention anything about religion will be punished severely! Why is it than no muslim can answer these questions? Will you recognize that we ALL are offended by something? And if so, will you allow EVERYBODY to decide what they dont want in the press? If yes, are you sure you like a free press?
Hey, from what I know, truth is adequate defence against accusations of slander or libel etc. If the concept can be exteded to blashphemy, then we're good I guess. Only to point out historically accurate facts, right?
Fireangel wrote:-
"I think the Saudis are behind all this. The recent stampede in Mecca not to mention that hostel falling down has caused them much embarrassment. What to do. OH yeah.... focus everyone's attention and rage on someone else.
I sure would have liked to be able to take a look at the protesters id cards. How many were actually carrying them I wonder.
The second thought I have about the Saudis being behind it is the cartoon rage is supposed to set up justifiable cause for the next muslim outrage. They're already floating the idea "SEE what you made us do?"
Shunkleash says:-
I think you missed the boat on this one. The Saudi's have already explained the cause of the stampede and the hotel collapse...it was the will of god! Didn't you hear the collective "aaahhhs" and "oooohhhs" comming from the sweaty, smelly, ignorant, self righteous, bumbling horde in mecca?
The saudi's are not behind this...oh contrare ISLAM IS BEHIND THIS!!!!
Shunkleash (PBUH)
Blasphemy laws??
Oh i get it laws that protect islam and muslims from being shat on. But allows muslims to say and do as they please. I say sure no problemo! In fact I will offer my services in helping the mulsim umma draft first draft.
Article 1:- Screw Islam!. If you're a muslim you aren't allowed to buy a copy of the koran far less utter it. Furthermore, from now one any reference to islam, the koran, their piece of shit prophet or a muslim in general must be prefaced with the word "cud"! ie cud muslim or cud prophet etc.
Article 2:- If you don't like Article 1...get on a plane and leave!
Articel 3:- All houses of devil worship (ie mosques) must be closed with immediate effect and turned into Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets.(This is called the "one good turn deserves another' clause). If they refuse and muezzin is heard we bomb the thing to dust.
Article 3:- Articles 1 2 and 3 are repeated.
How about it Mr. Rabid dog...is this what you wanted? How about you go back to your desk and try practicing law instead of talking through your ass!
Good day y'all
Shunkleash (PBUH)
Shunkleash (pb&j)
Remember your blood pressure!
In Islam a "cool head" is one which has been disconnected from its body.
I was just reading the "Arab Historians on the Crusades" and its mentions, during the Third Crusade, an shining example of their Great, Peaceful, Dignified Leader Saladin's amazing benevolence.
An "infidel" captive, snared near Jerusalem, (a "Frank" in the terminology of that day) was brought before Saladin and offered the chance to "accept Islam".
The "infidel refused", so the peace-loving, broad-minded, urbane, sophisticated, civilized Saladin had his head chopped off.
The more things change, the crazier too many Muslims stay.
I will never tire listening to Muslims lecturing secular Westerners on the best ways to improve our tolerance and pluralism quotients... These people, who herald from the most backward cultures on earth, who have come to the West to escape the cesspool of horrors of their culture of origin, and their religion, now have the arrogance and temerity to come to our lands and lecture us about our laws and condemn us for our culture and our traditions!?!
Tolerance aside --- perhaps it's time to kick their asses out... If they find our society it too decadent... if they find that our religions seem apostate... if they deem that we aren't tolerant enough for their tastes -- Let them return to the sewers from whence they crawled -- let them wallow in the filth of Arab nationalism, tribal Arab hatreds, and Islamic ignorance and insantiy, or let them return to Pakistani backwardness and filth, Pakistani ignorance and violence, Pakistani poverty and squalor, or let them return and wallow in Egyptian stupidity and corruption, or Saudi oppression and rigidity, or Indonesian disease and rot, or let them return to Palestinian degradation and lies, or Syrian bellicosity and treachery, or Iraqi organized crime and mayhem...
But I say to those Muslims in the West: For God's sake and our own -- STOP pointing your crooked Muslim fingers at us, and lecturing us with your hate tinged Muslim lies and propaganda -- stop insulting US with your twisted mouths and inane demands, stop burdening us with your veiled threats of violence, and your truculent demands for concessions from us, stop your tantrums and your childish demands that we "respect" you when have NEVER done anything to earn our respect!
Muslim! Get the hell out of Western lands. Go back to your pile of filth, back in the black heart of Islam -- Go! And bother us no more!
Blasphemy Laws!? Cram that into the dark hole of Islam where the sun doesn't shine -- Why ever would you want to visit your nightmare on this clean well lit part of the earth? Go back to the dungeon and bother us no more!
"Shunkleash (pb&j)
Remember your blood pressure!
In Islam a "cool head" is one which has been disconnected from its body." Quote profitsbeard
WOW! very funny. LOL!!
"Articel 3:- All houses of devil worship (ie mosques) must be closed with immediate effect and turned into Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets.(This is called the "one good turn deserves another' clause). If they refuse and muezzin is heard we bomb the thing to dust."
No, No, Shunkleash--Turn them all into Tony Roma's. That way, we'll support the Danish with endless purchases of baby-back ribs! I went to "Tony's", as we call it here in town, the other night. I just had to have some pork, after an hour of reading the rants in my copy of the Qur'an.
Skunkleash,
I'm good with all the articles except for #3. How about this:
Article 3: all houses of devil worship, (ie mosques) must be closed with immediate effect and turned into Jimmy Dean pork sausage factories.
Here's an idea: You know how we've heard over and over again that the Muslims burn down churches, leave the heads of beheaded school girls at the door of churches, run in and slay people with machetes while they attend church services? Maybe we should fight fire with fire, not killing anyone of course, by dousing every mosque in our various fair cities and countrysides with a thick coating of pig slop. I'm sure Alarmed Pig Farmer could provide us with some blood n' guts.
The best defense is a good offense. ; )
Muslims are seldom interested in blasphemy against other religions, are they? Islam never tolerates them unless it's in control at the top, which of course is the essence of dhimmitude. From a Christian perspective, the Qur'an itself is a blasphemous document since it explicitly denies the incarnation and crucifixion. But I don't see Christians banning and burning the Qur'an and demanding the revival of the Inquisition or other eccesiastical courts. Western governments and media must not back down on this issue. We must all be free to give and take offence.
Forcibly repatriate these savages from the shores of Europe and then we all could live in peace. That is the only anwser. Period
Very few reports worldwide, and certainly none here in Aus (belated and sparse as they are), have mentioned that:
a) 12 (rather bland) cartoons were first published in Denmark’s Jyllands-Posten newspaper on 30 September 2005 (you’d think it happened last week)
b) moderate muslims opposed “outraged” imams (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/689) and the newspaper had apologised for causing offence (but not for publishing)
c) the “outraged” imams nonetheless launched a planned, concerted campaign (http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1702104,00.html) to deliberately whip up Muslim “anger” by sending a delegation throughout the muslim world handing out a 43 page document containing 15 images, (three were added)...
“Meanwhile, the Danish tabloid Extra Bladet got hold of a 43-page report that Danish Muslim leaders and imams, on a tour of the Islamic world are handing out to their contacts to “explain” how offensive the cartoons are. The report contains 15 pictures instead of 12. The first of the three additional pictures, which are of dismal quality, shows Muhammad as a pedophile deamon (sic) [see it here], the second shows the prophet with a pig-snout [here] and the third depicts a praying Muslim being raped by a dog [here]. Apparently, the 12 original pictures were not deemed bad enough to convince other Muslims that Muslims in Denmark are the victims of a campaign of religious hatred.
“Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the 21 Danish Muslim organizations which organized the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to “give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.” Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity.” http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/668
d) it took five months to do the job to the extent that the western mainstream media at last picked up the story of muslim “outrage” (victimhood), never mentioning any of the above
e) Norway, Germany, France, New Zealand and now Jordan (The editor of a Jordanian newspaper that suggested Muslim anger was unreasonable, was sacked by his publisher. Al-Shihan had run the cartoons, arguing: “What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures or pictures of a hostage taker slashing the throat of his victim?” http://news.bbc.co.uk) have published the original cartoons, however...
f) Britain (although The Daily Telegraph and the Sun did publish a picture of the front page of Wednesday's edition of France Soir, which featured one of the cartoons, but both blanked out the image of Muhammad.... ) and that bastion of “free speech”, the US of A (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-02-03T171307Z_01_N03197247_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-CARTOONS-USA.xml) have declined to do so.
Now, even Denmark is backing down http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2006_01.php
This issue had died a natural death in its place of birth but was too good an opportunity for Islamists to let slip through their fingers. It has taken them five months of deliberate and concerted effort, but they have managed to drive it by force, literally, into a world-wide live-or-die battle of assumed victimhood v free speech.
Why does no one ask:
by what right do Muslims demand that every nation and every individual obey the decrees of their cult religion on pain of boycott, beating, bombing and beheading?
by what right do Muslims living in non-muslim countries demand that their beliefs supersede all others’?
by what right do Muslims living in non-muslim countries demand that their customs and practices must be accommodated by everyone else?
The answer, of course, it’s the Koran, stupid! Make that the stupid Koran! Have you read it? Or the Hadith? the Sira? Sickening, infantile, and just plain stupid to anyone with even half a mind.
So it’s all about the Koran. OK. Believe whatever you like. But don’t come into my home (country) and throw out or re-arrange the furniture according to the Koran. That is not acceptable.
BY WHAT RIGHT do governments of non- Islamic countries adopt a position of appeasement and capitulation to Islamist demands without consulting their constituents?
I have been studying Islam and Middle East history with increasing interest since 9/11, and the more I learn the more I am convinced that the free world must stand up now and say “Enough!, It’s over, Muhammad”.
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
Let us not forget how the Nazis came to power. Pastor Martin Niemöller, who opposed the insanity of the Nazis, repined about the insensitivity of the Germans to stand against the evil when their fellow citizens were becoming the targets of the Nazi ethnic cleansing.
He expressed their collective guilt in these words:
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.?Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.?Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.?Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Last night, a man who described himself as an "Iranian muslim", living in the U.S., called Michael Savage about the cartoons. My AM reception is so bad at night that I couldn't understand everything he said but it seemed like he was defending the cartoons, saying that muslims had no right to dictate what could be printed in Western newspapers, and telling Savage about a conversation he had with a relative in Iran. According to the relative in Iran, the Iranian government has stirred up the cartoon controversy in an attempt to get the UN off their backs, and to inflame the Islamic world.
Of course, the Saudis are fanning the flames to the max and they hate the Iranians, so who knows. I certainly don't want to mimic our dear muslim friends, who fall for every imaginary conspiracy theory their puppet master imams present to them, but it is strange that this has spiralled out of control four months after the fact.
If non-muslim British citizens walked around with signs threatening murder, genocide, beheadings, and world domination, would they be arrested for inciting hate? I have a feeling they would.
I believe in Theodore Roosevelt 1907 gave US a simple Victory Road Map for a Quality Sustainible Population & Destiny, now how do we re-discover this place?
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin
But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American,and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile..
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language..
and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Who do the Muslims think they are kidding? They seem to think that he who screams loudest will get his way. But the mushrooming of the cartoons across the Internet and across the entire world shows us that people are not going to take the destruction of their free speech rights lying down.
I think Susan P is correct in that this is just a diversionary tactic to make the world forget that the Iranians are desperately seeking a nuclear bomb. They are not stupid enough to jump the gun on taking over the entire world when there are still more of us than them in America, to do it.
rumoret
Dietrich Bonhoeffer is another German protestant theologian, a friend of Niemoller, who opposed Hitler and died because of it (he was hanged.)
I encourage all JW/DW readers to get a copy of his writings, first his letters and essays from prison. There's nothing like them in the 20th century religious thought (yes, there's Barth, but he's dark whereas B. is luminous).
I came upon Bonhoeffer's writings while helping an Eastern Orthodox monk manage the monastery's library, many decades ago. The monk was himself a survivor of the communist gulag.
Please read Bonhoeffer, whether you are Protestant or Catholic or "Other."
What will they want next? Friday be made a holiday? All women to wear a burka? Sharia law be enforced? stoning, amuptations the lot?
Norway is a majority Christian country. So if it frames a Blasphemy law, it will protect first,the Christian values,and as such, the real Blasphemies will be (1). saying that Jesus is not the Son Of God',(2). Degrading the Holy Bible as corrupetd,or changed by humans,and (3). Writing anything aginst the Holy Trinity.
Every Muslim,who indulge in the above blaphemy offences will be punishable by law. If you bring any book,which speaks contrary to the above blasphemy will be banned,and the publisher or seller fined or jailed.
"Do YOU REALLY TRUST ANY LIBERAL NOW???"
-Jingoist
Take a valium. I am pretty liberal. If I were in charge you can be sure I would not have made such a statement. Need I remind you of what our (US) non-liberal government said about the "cartoon scandal" yesterday? It is not about liberal v. conservative, as those are really antiquated labels given for the simple minded anyway. And what do you make of the courageous "liberal" French, Belgian, German, Italian and other newspapers that reprinted them. Calm down and stop seeing things in such simple terms.
It is not about liberal v. conservative
Kafir, this is an excellent point. I agree 100%. I'm also quite liberal, and I think it's time liberals and conservatives realize we have much more in common with each other in terms of fundamental values (like free speech) than with, uh... them. We can agree to disagree with each other, a virtue that Muslim citizens of Western countries have yet to achieve as a community. Or at least I'm waiting to see the evidence of it.
i'm with Anne. i'm a "liberal" as well.
jwatch isnt just for conservatives. liberals like myself are just getting sick to death of politically correct madness in the face of one of the biggest threats to western civilisaton since Nazism.
my attitude is - once we defeat Islam, we can get back to our civilised left v right debates, as is per usual in any democratic and free society.
we did it before in World War Two.
"Norway is a majority Christian country."
like most Scandinavian countries, you'll find that a lot of Norweigians are atheist or agnostic. religion simply does not matter to them. its like getting them to understand the meaning of an invisible spagetti monster - it just doesnt compute to the scandinavian mind.
hence the danish cartoons. religion is a irrelevance in those northern european countries.
I am sad to report Dutch dhimmitude at radio netherlands.
"Why ridicule won't lead to dialogue"
http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/currentaffairs/ned060204?view=Standard
What "dialogue" are they talking about here? What is there to discuss in a free society? If you don't like that, too bad.
On that site, there is also discussion of whether the US is a "Rogue State". This discussion was brought about by a book of the same name written by Richard Blum.
KISSING UBL ARSE:
"Well according to one US author it is and that author recently received a major boost from an unexpected corner - Osama bin Laden.
In one of his scratchy audio tapes the world's most wanted man encouraged people to read William Blum's book 'Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower.'
Following bin Laden's backing the book shot up Amazon.com's bestseller list from being at number 205,673 to being in 26th place.
"This is almost as good as being an Oprah book," Blum told the Washington Post.
A translation of bin Laden's tip to read Rogue State:
"And if Bush carries on with his lies and oppression, then it would be useful for you to read the book 'Rogue State,' which states in the introduction: 'If I were president, I would stop the attacks on the United States: First, I would give an apology to all the widows and orphans and those who were tortured. Then I would announce that American interference in the nations of the world has ended once and for all."
The exact quote is: "If I were president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologise - very publicly and very sincerely - to all the widows and orphans, the impoverished and the tortured, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism."
Is the US a rogue state? Would apologising for US interventions end terrorism?"
Have your say... http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/amsterdamforum/amfor
So let me understand this, to end terrorism we need dialogue and apologies from the US for the orphans, impoverishment of billions etc? Ah, ok I get it now.
Rafia,
You miss the point of the blasphemy laws. If instituted in Norway they will only further restrict freedom of speech for Christians, not Muslims. Muslims are already not free to say what they really think, if they think at all outside the boundaries of their ever narrowing, repressive belief system. (Although I do believe that there must be a lot of Muslim women who have to notice the misery of their lack of freedom and inability to express their God given talents and lost opportunities. That is why I fight this fight...I recognize mine.) Instituting blasphemy laws is a nice step towards instituting Sharia law and that's why the M's are screaming about it and we infidels are resisting it.
Kafir,
You are beginning to sound like one of the Muslims that you protest against. If you are indeed a liberal you are protected on this site by Robert and Hugh. The thing I don't understand is why liberals feel so sensitive that they must tell people to take a valium, calm down and stop being "simple". You can tell Jingoist that you don't appreciate him saying something negative about who you are without saying something negative about who he is. Otherwise, you're just doing the same thing. And I need you guys. Please, let's all get along.
"religion is an irrelevance in those northern european countries."
-Archduke
Not only in Northern Europe, much of Southern Europe too, as it is with me a continent away. That is they are so stunned. Of course we are not stunned because we understand the Moslem's zealotry and ignorance.
Guess what? Nobody makes anybody feeeel anything. If the muslims feeeel mocked and offended, that's their problem. They make a CHOICE about how they feeeel. REPEAT: THEY CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT TO BE OFFENDED!!!
Or, "sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
But the new THERAPUTIC HUMANIST SOCIETY likes to control everything, including peoples feeelings. And we will be trained by those psychoanalysts on HOW TO BE HUMAN, whether we like it or not.
We live in a MADHOUSE now, and the real crazies are calling the shots!
Norway needs anti-blasphemy regulations to protect minorities against derisive and hateful expression, says lawyer Abid Q Raja.
"The point is not to restrict freedom of speech but to give it direction so that weak groups do not feel insulted or mocked. If we do nothing the differences within Norwegian society will increase in the future," Raja told newspaper Dagsavisen.
No doubt non-Muslims living in Muslim majority countries would like not to be insulted or mocked + not having family members beheaded, churches burned down, not being officially discriminated against since no non-Muslim may have a position of authority over any Muslim...the list goes on.......why can't the "weak groups" in Muslim countries ask (or do like the Muslims worldwide do and demand via underlying threats of "we will burn the town down!" - sounds like a Mafia shake down to me!)for more consideration so that their FEELINGS will not be hurt!
Au secours Voltaire! Where are you when you are needed!
Isabella,
I am sorry if I offended you or Jingoist. I really mean that. I see constant rants against liberals and I believe them to be silly. I think we need to keep our differences, briefly discuss them, but never resort to name-calling. In the same spirit, we should avoid using the simple terms “liberal” and “conservative” because it weakens this site. I admit to some level of hypocrisy here because I have even identified myself under that label. We are all unified about the threat of Islam, that's the bottom line, irrespective of our differences on other issues. Like Hugh said before, this is a site that aims to expose Islam. THAT is the subject matter here. I realize that other issues will get discussed. Still, I want to tell you that it was only my intention of making clear that using the terms liberal and conservative is truly wildly deceiving, and should be avoided if we are to build a coalition.
Well, of course, I'm a "liberal" too!
Naw,,,, I reject labels.
"Blashemy laws - these are just a code words. What this really means is that they want rape statistics and criminality statistics and the very connection between crime and islamistic cultures to be covered-up. They would find it "blashemous" to point out that men with mid-eastern origin with islamic backround are overrepresented in rape and crime statistics. That they are that is beyond any doubt - unemployed vietnamese do not commit rape and crime. Neither do flat-broke hindus do that. What the muslims really want is a cover-up really BIG TIME.
Am I the only that secretly dreams that some conspiracy of newspaper editors are right now working behind the scenes in an attempt to arrange the simultanous publishing of those cartons in hundreds of papers all over the free world at the same time?
Not likely to happen, but damn I would like to see it happen.
From ExPatDK: Am I the only that secretly dreams that some conspiracy of newspaper editors are right now working behind the scenes in an attempt to arrange the simultanous publishing of those cartons in hundreds of papers all over the free world at the same time?
What a wonderful thought!! If only that would happen!
Kafir buddie,
No apology necessary. You didn't offend me. I just hate it when someone tells somebody else to calm down because it's such a dis, especially someone who is on our team. I appreciate your explanation, though. Thanks.
I hope you have a good night.
As a democrat I'm deeply committed to free speech. But with it comes responsibility. The purpose of free speech is, among other things, to create the most favorable conditions for the search for truth. I'm deeply troubled by some of the hatred expressed above, not for Islam, but for Muslims. As a Catholic, I believe that Islam is a false religion, but I know also that I'm called to love those who because of socialization have been raised to believe many things that are false. The solution is to engage Muslims in courteous dialogue. This is not a soft response that has no regard for truth, but is an intelligent strategy for evangelization of Muslims. As Berlesconi said, "The problem is their religion; the solution is to convert them to Christianity." Those with a secular world view have an important role to play by focusing on the important values of the Enlightenment (freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etc.). But a clash of civilizations leading to world wide apocalypic scenarios is not good for anyone. The behavior of Fatah (threatening churches in the Gaza strip) and other unacceptable reactions to the cartoons are a teachable moment. But ranting about ragheads and dumping on people (as opposed to the kind of reasoned rejection of Islam that this website engages in) is self-indulgence. I detest the facile ethical relativism associated with the American left (with its mystique of multiculturalism), but a case can be made for civility as one of the West's important values at this time.
Tom writes:
"The solution is to engage Muslims in courteous dialogue. This is not a soft response that has no regard for truth, but is an intelligent strategy for evangelization of Muslims"
That does not work. I've seen some evangelicals trying that in Stockholm and that does'nt work, no matter how intelligent and subtile you are. The muslims have a powerful jungledrum in their community, the Imams will hear about "muslims having a dialogue with christians" very quickly. And it has to be said that the Imams are not stupid in a IQ-test sense; the smell converting attempts from mile's distance. A mafia-like order goes through the community and after your first meeting there's nobody attending the next one. I quess you are referring to a more wide dialogue in a societal level, but I can see no reason why that would work any better than those tried-and-failed attempts at street level.
That is not to say that "dialogues" by letists are any better, and that because the so to speak set-up of the dialogue team, from the western side. There is a politically correct filter you must pass to be taken into a "dialogue". And the essence of that filter is nulticultural - all cultures are as good.
These are the filters one must pass - with rape statistics being the case study:
A. The unemployed muslim is a victim.
1) You first show the rape statistics - showing muslim men being rapists - and the very first response is that muslims are unemployed and of course the victims of the society cause crime.
2) You show the lefties victim theory being false - other ethno-religous groups do not commit raping spree while unemployed.
B. The muslims are unemployed because of racism.
1) You show them that wherever you go in Europe, muslims are always unemployed.
2) You show the leftists that racism or not, chinese and vietnamese are always at work.
As you can see, it is very diffult to arrange such a genuine dialogue which shows that it is the muslims who must change. Of this follows that the political left gets conned time after time, no matter how many times these "dialogues" are repeated. In practice these dialogues - which get publicity - are always Left-Muslim dialogues, which is just bullshit about racism-racism-racism-racism....
I'm sorry Tom but I am afraid what you advocate is too late. Most people do realize that the muslims are a product of their culture, but what your(and Humanists in general)thinking seems to be based on is what could be, what might be, or what should be. While your facts and observations are real, your solution is unrealistic, at least from the standpoint of individual free-will.
Of course it is possible(probability is a whole different thing), but what it comes down to is to FORCE the rest of the world to SACRIFICE themselves for the muslims. This is unacceptable in my opinion. These people seek our destruction, it matters not to me that they are brainwashed and suffering from serious personality disorders, I've got my own problems, and I have a serious problem when the unpleasant consequences that result from stupid or insane beliefs and behavior by others is placed on my door-step.
I really don't care about being "humane" and "understanding" anymore, what these people NEED IS TO GET THE LIVING SH-T KICKED OUT OF THEM, or, to wall them into a huge geographical maximum security psych-ward. They are going to set-back the human race 100 years if we play your game with them, and there is a very real possibility they would turn it around and end up WINNING. We don't need this sh-t, we have the means to end this pronto, with no Soviet Union to tie our hands, all this "humanism" crap is what gives these people some kind of imaginary value. Just because they were born innocent means nothing now, psychopathy is CONTAGIOUS, we need to quarantine all the believers of this cult, and speak the truth about it in our own countries, so people can use informed judgement and steer clear of it.
The Germans were brainwashed by the nazis, the Soviets by the commies, the Japs by the emperor, knowing that dos'nt change the reality, they/we were at war.
We are playing a very dangerous game, and are INTENTIONALLY frittering away our well-earned superiority which simultaneously increases the power of the enemy, this is insane.
Rafia:
[[Norway is a majority Christian country. So if it frames a Blasphemy law, it will protect first,the Christian values,]]
Ever the optimist, are you? A much more realistic expectation is that it will be "adjusted" like the anti-hate speek law in Britain.
It will supposedly apply for all, but then it will excempt the hate speech from the Koran, because, well, all that smiting of necks and exterminating the Jews and forcing dhimmitude on the unbelievers... well, it is after all God`s word, and we have to respect that. Otherwise, what would the imams have to say in their Friday kutba?
Immigration is a good thing, unless the immigrants are 3rd world DEVOUT Moslems. I myself have immigrated to Sweden (beautiful country, beautiful people, kind people – but like that rest of the West, ignorant about Islam).
In the West, we assume that if an immigrant comes to our country that they will try to assimilate into our culture and accept our values. This is generally true of all immigrants except devout Moslems. They have been so brainwashed by their religion that they cannot accept a non-moslem culture. Please note that I am talking about the DEVOUT MOSLEMS. I am not talking about the Moslems who were only Moslem for fear of being put to death. They were religious prisoners in their old countries! Usually when they get to the West, they find the courage to leave Islam!
The good people (countries) of the West bring these devout Moslems in not knowing the truth behind Islam. Islam IS a religion of TERROR! It has been from the start!
I started learning about Islam after one of them murdered my mother by crashing a plane back on Oct 31, 1999. What I have learned is MIND BLOWING to say the least.
Before my mother’s murder, I believed what I HEARD about Islam. That it is a religion of PEACE and that they worship the same God that the Jews and the Christians worship. The people of the West and their governments also believe this and therefore believe that the Moslems should be able to become good immigrants.
I now know I was given INCORRECT information by UNINFORMED people regarding the Islamic religion. Here is what I have learned. As far as what I am about to say, don’t just take my word as the truth, study about “their prophet” and how their religion grew for yourself and you too will know the truth. You will soon understand that the God THEY worship is NOT the God we worship!
Now please understand that what I am about to say is purely a western viewpoint because the Moslems see it entirely different. What I have learned is that Mohammed was a murdering, sadistic, raping, thieving, lying, slave trading, warmongering, pedophile, who had no problem assassinating anyone who spoke up against him or against “HIS” religion. These ARE documented historical facts; find them yourself!
In short - Mohammed and his band of followers started out by ROBBING the caravans that traveled the desert. He KILLED the caravan people if they tried to defend themselves and sometimes even when they did not try to defend themselves, and he then took their loot for himself and his followers.
He would attack the villages around him and kill off the men, take the women and children as SLAVES for himself and his followers and of course he would take their possessions. Any female slaves he desired were then RAPED. The historical records talk about him desiring a married woman of a family of UNBELIEVERS, so he killed her husband and raped her that night! It is in THEIR book!
Even though he had numerous wives and many slave girls, one day he saw his adapted son’s wife in some state of undress and suddenly had an urge for her. He told his son to divorce the woman so that he could have her. The son complied and Mohammed took her. (In the West, we WOULD NOT consider this to be a MORAL man!)
One wife he married when she was 6 years old. This is OK because there were many child marriages back then but there was NO sex until the girl well past the onset of puberty and so was 11 to 16 years old. In the West Mohammed would be defined as a PEDOPHILE because he strongly desired sex with this child bride. Finally when she was 9 years old, he had sex with her. It is written that at that moment she was playing dolls with her friends when the women came to take her to Mohammed. – Draw your own conclusions.
There are also stories of very SADISTIC acts carried out by Mohammed. For example, some man who committed some crime and when he refused to “repent” Mohammed cut off an arm and a leg. Day(s) later, the man still refused to repent and the prophet cut off his other arm and leg. Day(s) later the last refusal to repent lead to the burning out of the eyes, cutting out his tongue and dragging him out into the desert to die with the warning that anyone who tried to help this man would suffer the same fate. To which the Moslem “HOLY” book exclaims “Mohammed, the Merciful, the Just!” In the West we consider this to be SADISTIC!
FINALLY --- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! Anybody who SPOKE AGAINST Mohammed was put to DEATH ! Anyone who SPOKE AGAINST ISLAM, was put to DEATH ! Anyone WHO LEFT ISLAM, was put to DEATH !
There is the story of 2 unrelated people, from the village that took the Mohammedans in when they were just starting out, who were shocked by what Mohammed and his followers were doing. They each wrote some kind of poem that painted Mohammed in a less than favorable light. The man was ASSASINATED in his sleep and likewise the woman was ASSASINATED in her sleep as well as her ENTIRE FAMILY!
The reason why this is so IMPORTANT is that, with ANYONE who spoke out against Mohammed or Islam, or even who left Islam once they had converted to Islam (or was born into Islam) being put to DEATH -- NO ONE SPOKE OUT ! NO ONE QUESTIONED ISLAM AND NO ONE TRIED TO LEAVE ISLAM !
People converted to Islam out of FEAR because people who were Moslem could not be killed by Mohammed’s army! They could NOT be made into slaves (only unbelievers could be slaves)! They could keep their property and they would have the protection of Mohammed’s army against the unbelievers. Covet thy unbelieving neighbor’s property – it is yours for the taking!
The Moslems excuse the killing, robbing and enslaving because he was waging God’s War against the nonbelievers! The Moslems say that if a woman is your slave, it is NOT rape when you have sex with her because you own her and she has no say in the matter. They say he was not a pedophile because the 9 year old was his wife. The Moslems ignore the other transgressions of Mohammed because AS God’s Prophet, there was ONE SET OF RULES that applied to Mohammed and ANOTHER SET of rules that applied to the rest of Islam.
The Moslems have been so indoctrinated that after 1,400 years, they truly believe BADMOUTHING Islam by ANYONE deserves death! They do not and cannot understand a FREE society.
Islam spread through war and rape. After Mohammed died, the various tribes started to leave Islam. The Mohammedan Army put a quick stop to that by killing the apostates. The Mohammedan Armies continued to wage war and Islam spread. The stories of how the holy warriors would move into an area, slaughter the men and place the women into harems are again – historical fact! Make a lot of babies with these women and soon Islam is the law of the land without question.
After the Islamists entered the Christian lands, the Christians fought back and stopped the Islamic advance into the West. And IN A COMPLETE REWRITING OF HISTORY, it is the Moslems who claim it was the Christians who attacked and waged a crusade against Islam! The Moslem wars against India saw incredible CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY waged against the Indian people! Historical FACT – just find it for yourself.
Christianity did not spread through war. Buddhism did not spread through war. Zoroasterism did not spread through war. Only Islam spread through war.
There is SO much more to this story, you need to find it and understand it for yourself. I believe that once the truth is known, Islam will be exposed for the terroristic religion it truly is! I know people here who were Moslem, who came to the West and when they found out the truth about their religion of “PEACE”, promptly left it knowing that they would not be put to death in the free countries of the West (although in reality, some have been murdered here for leaving Islam).
--An Unbeliever who now faces the death penalty for speaking the truth of Islam!
Great post, Steve... That's just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to Islam -- but you've nicely covered many of Islam's "high" points...
While I am revolted at the recent convulsions in the Muslim world over a series of cartoons, since 9/11 I have been stunned at our own mass delusions about Islam...
This delusional state still exists, even today, despite the ample evidence of Islam's heinousness -- despite the ample evidence that Islam is the cause of all of the backwardness, intolerance, bigotry, hatred, violence, corruption, and stupidity which exemplifiies the Muslim world today.
And Muslims couldn't have been more frank or clear about their intentions towards us for decades... How many times have we heard "Death to America", "Death to England", "Death to Israel"?
How many times before we believe their intentions which they state in their fervent promises to destroy us? These can be seen daily in their media. These can be heard daily in their religious pronouncements -- even in the mosques here in America and in Europe -- If the 1979 "Islamic revolution" in Iran didn't make us pay attention and believe, if the first attempts to topple the World Trade Center didn't make us pay attention and believe, if incidents like the Cole Bombing, the Beirut Barracks bombing didn't make us pay attention and believe, if even 9/11 and the subsequent atrocities in Bali, Beslan, Madrid, London, Moscow, Philippines, Sudan, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel, Turkey, Algeria, didn't make us pay attention and believe --- WHAT WILL IT TAKE? How much more must we be told, from their own lips, before we believe? How much more must we see, from their own hands, before we believe? How many more of us need to die before we believe that Muslims intend to destroy us and dominates us and are acting daily to further these goals across the globe?
Tom-
The people onboard the airliners on 9/11 believed what you believe about "dialogue" and "reason" and a "soft" appoach.
Until their planes flew into the South and North World Trade Center towers. And the Pentagon.
Those on Flight 93, over Pennsylvania, got the word about the true intentions of the Islamic fanatics over their cellphones -and fought back.
We are all onboard a global flight 93 right now.
Pussyfooting time is long, long past.
Wake up and smell the cut throats.