Pakistan: Cartoon protesters defy rally ban

"America is the killer of humanity,

This passes as a coherent statement from a "learned cleric of Islam"

And how many fellow Muslims did they kill??

OT, but curious: I am taking it that details of the attack on the oil facility in SA are still coming in, being verified... Perhaps we shall hear of it on JW in the next few days?

Hmmm, still going on about the cartoons but didn't say a word about attacks on fellow muslims or thier holy shrines. You have to respect anyone who will riot over cartoons and ignore actual attacks (yeah right). I wonder if the comics showing the Iraqi police as heros bothered them? Nah, didn't have any pictures of any prophet. On a positive note "thousands" in that areas would have just been a drop in the bucket, seems most had better things to do. Ok, had my say, time for another round, I'm starting to like Danish beer, I owe who ever started the ban on Danish products, thanks ackmed, heres to ya.

The idea of Moslems governing other Moslems always takes my breath away. Maybe that's what happened. Maybe as a young man Mohammed looked around at all the Arabs walking up and down the sidewalks of Mecca, and grasped that these people needed to be enslaved and went on to build his great religion and gave it the name Submission.

He said protests would also be held on March 3, a day before the visit of U.S. President George W. Bush to Pakistan.

Well, this should be interesting. The peace loving Muslims may change the face of American politics if President Bush is not protected well enough.

How many peace loving Muslims in Pakistan have StoA's, StoS's, car bombs, grenade launchers???

How many peace loving Muslims does it take to kill two presidents of two countries? This may be determined on March 4.

The war with Islam is inevitable.

Prepare be armed be ready.

The Texican.

Freedom. The only choice at any price.

Texican-

If Bush is going to Pakistan he's dumber than I thought.

They usually have these 'koffee klatches' on secure islands off the coast, and pretend it is in the country of [fill in ungovernable area].

In Pakistan's case, I doubt there is such a secure zone. But, if all passes without disaster, it will only bring Musharref's assassination a little closer for having let the infidel crusader devil into an Islamic Republic.

If not-

-well, at least Cheney knows how to shoot.

(And I'll be glad to adopt the Scotties. I can do a pretty good redition of "Loch Lomon".)

"...rendition..."

Although not the CIA kind.

(Not that I'm opposed to it.)

I wouldn't worry about the President, if a threat is found he will just find a reason not to travel. I want to see how many show up to protest and if they have a counter protest (not likely) also to my friend Texican, armed and ready sounds like great advice.

Let them burn Western toilet paper and stop using clocks, cars, medicines, AK-47's and other Western inventions. Let them live in the stone age of 7th century Islam until they come begging the US to give them assistance in a natural disaster or foreign aid. Who cares?

The very idea of a Paki is our worst nightmare. The intelligence and energy of a Hindu combined with the saliva-drooling savagery and stupidity of a Moslem.

Good to go Bush. Lets just stroll into Pakistan for a meeting and see how many secret service agents you can put into danger. You can probably bet something will happen while he is over there. I think its a waste of time going there in person to accomplish something that can be done over a phone. Then again maybe it will cause another protesting riot where 20 or 30 more muslims will end up stampeded in the name of allah.

I have a buddy from college, a high-born Paki whose family fled when the CIA set up the Zia takeover. Fled to London, of course, and after a course at LSE this friend had renounced Islam and ended up in graduate school at my college in the States. (I can't reveal too much about myself, but I attended a very elite institute of swine sciences located on a bucolic campus somewhere in the Kentucky area.)

Anyway, years later, after a federal drug bust and a consequent forced stint of service for the CIA --- which he claims is now over, I don't believe him, though --- he was able to return to return to Pakistan under a false passport in order to visit a close relative on his death bed.

I picked him up at the airport when he returned to the States. He was visibly shaken. After a 25-year absence, he told me what he saw in Pakistan. Cars driving against traffic the wrong way on one-way streets. 8-year olds being beaten on sidewalks for not working hard enough at their slave labor. Koran-brandishing upstart Imams holding forth in corner cafes, to the roaring approval of drunken crowds. Brokeback man-boy love combos working their magic in alleys as he flitted by, shocked, in his CIA-provided limo.

Moslems everywhere. Korans laying all about.

I asked him why he was so upset. He said that he saw the vision of America's future. He also told me that he never wanted to speak of his past again.

Neither did I. Except for the Islam part, that is.

This cartoon sums up Muslim Ideology perfectly.

http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php

-cheers

The very idea of a Paki is our worst nightmare. The intelligence and energy of a Hindu combined with the saliva-drooling savagery and stupidity of a Moslem.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer

Don't worry, all the inbreeding has made them stupid. All the wars between India and Pakistan have been instigated by Pakistan with full American backing of arms, latest technology and weapons, yet India still kicked their ass every time. Shows how competent the Pakis are.

I figure that Pakis are the garbage of the Indian subcontinent and they only had some say because they had America's backing, but now I hope that things change. Once America is not willing to support Pakiland, they are so toast.

-Cheers

FATWA NEWS:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200602270014

Mark Thomas flushes out a fatwa
Mark Thomas
Monday 27th February 2006

"A fatwa committee has sentenced the Kurdish writer Marywan Halabjaye to death, while Kurd leaders just stand by. By Mark Thomas

Being a card-carrying confused liberal, ie, someone who is resolute in their lack of certainty, I was dismayed - as I'm sure you can imagine - when I sliced open an aubergine to find the seeds forming a picture of the Prophet Muhammad holding an AK-47. What was I to do? Should I send the aubergine to Denmark for publication and risk another half-dozen embassy fires, or send it to Koranic scholars for interpretation? The scholars might decide that it is not an AK-47 after all, but a shepherd's staff, which would calm everything down. Or they could just as well declare a fatwa on the aubergine and baba ghanoush in general......

----

"Take the example of the Kurdish writer Marywan Halabjaye in Iraq. I was contacted by Houzan Mahmoud, the UK representative of the Organisation of Women's Freedom in Iraq. She told me Marywan would answer any questions I might want to put to him, but as he spoke no English and I no Arabic, I should e-mail the questions to her and she would get the answers. It was also a polite way of avoiding me compromising his safety. Marywan is in hiding with his pregnant wife and three children; he has been sentenced to be beheaded by the fatwa committee of Halabja. His crime was writing a book entitled Sex, Sharia and Women in the History of Islam, which includes a textual analysis of the Koran and how it is used to oppress women.

"I wanted to prove how oppressed women are in Islam and that they have no rights actually," says Marywan, "although this is really a traditional topic among progressives." In fact, he is well known among Iraqi Kurds and has written on religion before with a minimum of fuss.

So his book was published last November, after permission had been sought from the Kurdish bureaucracy. The print run was for 1,000 copies, and the work proved popular enough for a second edition to be issued within a month. "The Islamists were not happy with this," says Marywan, "because they always want to hide the oppression of women within Islam."

Islamic scholars from Halabja made an official complaint about Marywan to President Talabani. Letters followed to the Kurdish newspapers, calling for him to be punished. Throughout December the verbal attacks continued from the mosques throughout Halabja, Irbil and Kirkuk. Then three of Kurdistan's Islamic parties, the United Islamic Party, the Islamic Kurdish League and the Islamic Movement of Kurdistan, joined the debate. By which I mean they bellowed for him to be punished.

According to Marywan, he is constantly harangued on the Islamists' television and radio stations. "Almost every day they have a programme against me. They interview scholars and mullahs on how to punish such an infidel . . . the Islamists said once from the radio, if they found out where I was, they would blow themselves up with me...."

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE

"vowed not to sell Western products in future"

Start with antibiotics.

Gorkhali, I got turned on to the voi.org website by some Hindu co-workers here in the States. They came back after about a week, smiling, and asked me what I thought. I told them I thought that our dumbass President Bush should be sent to a spa in Bangalore for a week to hang out with some Hindu intellectuals --- the real ones, not the phonies from the elite Indian universities --- and then maybe he'd understand what in the holy hell he's dealing with.

Sita Ram Goel is a saint. May God, or the Gods, bless that man. While the ideal of intellectualism has so obviously collapsed in the West, it seems to be holding fast on the Subcontinent. Ironic.

Pakistan: Cartoon protesters defy rally ban

I've got to say, my Friday plans always beat the crap out of those people's.

Every time I read a report such as this, I think "for heaven's sake, folks, get a hobby!" But therein lies the problem in places like Pakistan, Iraq, and so on.

When, as Ayatollah Khomeni said, "there is no fun in Islam," the events in the article are what instead has to pass for fun and entertainment. Well, that and executions.

Allah doesn't want you to unwind, recharge your batteries, and get a little perspective on things. Heaven forbid, you might sit back and think about some things, like how you're quashing most of your potential as a human being to join a mob of protestors in the savage thrall of anger and pack-like behavior. Time at home with the family, reading, some crafts, art, sports... Nope. Getting whipped into a fanatical frenzy after Friday prayers is probably a cheaper thrill.

But doesn't that ever get old? Doesn't one ever go out to the flag-and-effigy burning demonstration and think, "y'know, I'm just not feeling it today"?

Not that one could ever admit it, because a passionate display of piety is equated with piety itself: He who burns the most flags and chants the most slogans is the one who loves Allah and his "prophet" the most, apparently.

Hi Guys,

Bush is going to India, I think this visit should have been 30 years ago and USA should have strengthened the relationship with India some time earlier. India is the biggest democracy and secular country. India and USA both have been victim of terrorism on name of religion and fundamentalism. Both countries share the same ideology of justice, peace and economics.
I think its right time that there is a strong partnership between two biggest democracies of the world to work for future development and dealing with the rouge states like Pakistan, Iran & Korea.

The only grudge I have against USA is that it supported Pakistan and other muslim nations for so long and not supporting a country based on similar values. But its never too late to correct your mistakes and work towards future betterment.

Unlike west, India has faced more Islamic trouble than any other country. India has the second largest muslim population which lives in India and still support pakistan( I dont say everyone, but most of them } my question to all those iraqi infiltrators and terrorist is, If you believe in what you do and believe your religion is true and after death you will go to heaven, why dont you fight against the Army, one on one and not hide and kill civilians. You are just COWARDS... accept that assholes.

President/General Musharraf isn't perfect but he's the only thing standing in the way of another crazy-azz Mullocracy, like Iran has.

Plus, unlike Iran, Pakistan already has N-bombs which the crazies would love to get their hands on. Yes they allowed that one top scientist to spread nuke technology around the Islamic world, but even that was before Musharraf was in charge. He hasn't been punished under Musharraf, but he has to be very careful or he could go the way of Sadat in Egypt as he too has Islamists all around.

I didn't know that Bush was to visit there soon. That surprises me as I wouldn't think that it would strengthen Musharraf in the slightest, in fact I would think the opposite.

I'm not any kind of expert on Pakistan but isn't it the case that the military consitutes the main bulwark against Islamism, as in Turkey?

Hammer_Time

p.s. interesting post Alarmed Pig Farmer

Barely related Note: On this or another thread someone mentioned how Fox News is going to pot. I have to agree. The other day they 'reported' (loosely used) on more Cartoon Riots, this time in "Istanbul Pakistan". I'm not kidding, they had it up on the screen and everything; Istanbul Pakistan. Sure they've got the most gorgeous women in television news, but apart from Brit Hume, Tony Snow, and a handful of others, the journalistic standards are pretty sad. I've even started watching CNN again, sorry to say.

Pakistan is one coup away from al Qaeda with the Islamic Bomb. I wouldn't take the friendship talk too seriously. International relations are based on necessity.

There's no doubt Americans get along better with Indians. Exhibit A: my neighbors.

Well, the president was visiting India, so how could he not visit Pakistan? /sarc off

While he's there, maybe he could contract UAE security officials to substitute the secret service? Expect more cartoon demonstrations while he is there, since America=Israel=Denmark=India.

In the past, the president had courted groups like NAACP, and only got wise about them after being burned by things like the James Byrd ad. While I don't wish it, looks like massive demonstrations in Pakland against him might, just might change his opinion.

But then, again,...

I would like to hear more on this visit and related topics from our friends in India.

I can tell you that we in America learn absolutely nothing about India in our public schools, let alone about the bloody Islamic expansion against your land and people.

What books (in English) can you recommend about these topics?

Thank God(s) you had strength to resist and weren't completely overrun has happened in so many other places.

Hammer_Time

When, as Ayatollah Khomeni said, "there is no fun in Islam," the events in the article are what instead has to pass for fun and entertainment. Well, that and executions.

Shinoliite, is this what they call qunintessence?

I can tell you that we in America learn absolutely nothing about India in our public schools, let alone about the bloody Islamic expansion against your land and people. What books (in English) can you recommend about these topics?

voi.org. It'll blow your mind. 80 milliion non-Believers dead. Wow.

Hammer_Time

The Legacy of Jihad is a good survey on all Islamic conquests.

Hi Hammer,

I wouldnt recommend any of those sites as they are ignited by the fanatic section of Hindu society, Every religion has some fanatics in there, unfortunately we do too. But the fact that these fanatics are unable to rule the country or even make it near to majority is an evidence to the fact that the state of minds of Hindus in India are secular and democratic. If that wasnt the case, can a Muslim be president and a Sikh a prime minister of a country where Hindus are 85% of population?

Believe me guys, Hindus are forward looking people and will never talk much about religion as they think its a personal faith.
Definetely there were a lot of Hindus killed during 600 years of Islamic invasion of India(as they wanted everyone to be converted to Islam... thank god my ancestors didnt else I would have been one of those burning flags), but we still didnt start killing them on the basis that your ancestors killed us so we should kill you, instead we have them a secular and democratic country. We dont ask for our land back from muslims that is pakistan or Bangladesh on the same basis as they are asking Israel. Why do they have double standards and not follow policy of live and let live. Work hard and be productive instead of spreading hatred and killings.

I think Americans have the least knowledge of India as a country and if the ties were built in past then we would have had lesser problems than what we have today.

I'm not any kind of expert on Pakistan but isn't it the case that the military consitutes the main bulwark against Islamism, as in Turkey?

No, Pakistan's whole basis for existance is Islam, just as N Korea's whole basis for existance is Communism. The military has historically been a force for Islam - both externally, where they historically kept provoking Kashmiri Jihadists against India, and internally - especially under Gen Zia. In the current case, Gen Musharraf happens to be a non-Islamist, given that he overthrew the Islamist regime of Nawaz Sharief, a protege of Gen Zia.

But while Musharraf may not be an ally of al-Qaeda, it's inane to extrapolate that assumption to the rest of the Pakistani military brass, which is what the White House seems to be doing. During the Benazir Bhutto regime, it was Pakistan's military intelligence that backed the Taliban to power. If any of the assassination attempts on Musharraf ever succeeds, all those nukes would be in the hands of a pro al-Qaeda regime.

In such a case, I can't see how ICBM's are not used.

Amen, Aman!

Thanks A.P.F. and Beagle, I've bookmarked those sites. I did browse some of the history of the Hindu Holocaust on voi.org just now and found it a bit hard to read (as in literally a bit hard to see clearly). There's a lot of stuff there which is given very quick treatment, but it's an overview of course. I never did get to the 80 million dead part but will re-visit. One thing I didn't like was the re-created historical conversations, like: >>> Then Alexander turned to the judge, who decided that each one had answered worse than another. "You will die first, then, for giving such a decision," said Alexander. "Not so, mighty king," said the Brahmin, "if you want to remain a man of your word. You said that you would kill first the one who made the worst answer." Alexander gave all of the Brahmins presents and set them free, even though they had persuaded the Indians to fight him

p.s. It's good to hear that India proper is still 85% Hindu. And yes, I'm sure that your Muslim minority is infinitely better treated than are the Hindu etc. minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh, such is the great benevolence of Islam (not).

I figure that Pakis are the garbage of the Indian subcontinent.

- Gorkhali

In India, IT means Information Technology.
In Pakistan, IT means International Terror.

If it wasn't true, it would be a funny joke, wouldn't it?

I'm sure that your Muslim minority is infinitely better treated than are the Hindu etc. minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

- Hammer_Time.

If anyone questions Hammer_Time's statement, India's President is Dr. Avul Pakir Jainulabdeen (APJ) Abdul Kalam, a Muslim.

Next question?

What books (in English) can you recommend about these topics?
- Hammer_Time,

Hammer_Time,

What is unique about India is that while Mahatma Gandhi won India's freedom with the dignity it deserved, Pakistan was born out of deciet, bigotry and betrayal, aptly captured in the book 'Freedom at Midnight' ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0006388515/103-2866436-0102230?v=glance&n=283155 ), a good start. Ofcourse, there is more like 'History of Satyagrah in South Africa', but 'Freedom at Midnight' would be a good start.

Aman

Which sites are you referring to here? If hinduunity.org, I'd agree to an extent, although I thought the cartoon on their cover page of Mohammed dragging Ayesha funny. If you're talking about voi.org, I don't see how they are a fanatical site, unless you consider Koenraad Elst and Arun Shourie (former Indian Minister of Dis-Investment and former Indian Express editor) fanatics. Quite a number of the books there seem to be Open Books, available for reading online. I was somewhat disappointed that RC Mazumdar, who has written the most comprehensive accounts of Muslim-on-Infidel (i.e. Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Parsi, et al) violence, was not listed there.

While I agree that most normal people visiting fanatical web sites would be left with a negative impression of Hindus, I do think that it is useful for people in the West to complement what they know about the jihads on Christians and Jews with new information about the jihads on Zoroastrians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, et al. It is natural for people to resist the idea of stereotyping an entire group of people (especially a group as large as 1 billion) as fanatics. However, once they see the pattern of Muslims persecuting not only Christians and Jews, but others such as Hindus and Buddhists as well, they would at least stop misinterpreting this conflict as a clash between Western and Eastern civilizations.

Similarly, on the Indian side, Hindus and Sikhs are well informed about the 800 years of jihad against them - from Mohammed bin Qasim to Ahmad Shah Abdali, even though enough of them today seem to pretend that it never happened. They too should complement that knowledge with that of the initial Islamic conquests of the Mid East and North Africa, the Turkic campaigns in Central Asia (Timur, et al), the Ottoman conquests of the Balkans and wars against Christian Europe, the Crusades (only the first was successful, and the third just failed to capture Jerusalem). Compare the destruction of temples in Somnath, Ayodhya, Mathura, Varanasi with that of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the Hagia Sophia, and any number of other Christian and Jewish holy sites. They should then realize who their enemies really are - and hopefully, one should see an end to things such as attacks on Valentines Day, Christians and churches, as well as asinine statements by Bal Thackeray glorifying Hitler for the endlosung.

All the infidel world has a big enough, real enough enemy - Islam - without wasting time and energy preying on each other.

"America is the killer of humanity, and we will keep raising our voice against it,..."

It's so sad that Muslims hear this and do not know the truth. Millions of people from around the world do whatever they can to come to America, to live the American dream. Are they looking for death, no, they're looking for FREEDOM. Satan, the father of lies, rules Islam and wants the people repressed. He uses the clerics to spread his lies. He knows his time is short. Expect to see more and more violence as the satanists attempt to silence the truth. We know the ending to this story.

If the readers have noticed, UAE completes the list of countries that recognized Taliban Govt. in Afghanistan, along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Isn't it interesting that the Saudi Arabia, where most of the 9/11 butchers came from, were funded by Pakisan thru UAE?

Heck, Pres. Bush might as well nominate Bin Ladin for Nobel Peace Prize and settle it once and for all.

PS: Ofcourse, there is more like Daniel Pearl's on-camera butchery, by Sheikh Omar, who was in Indian custody for terror in Kashmir. For anyone interested, 'Who Killed Daniel Pearl' is a good read on Pakistan's deep routs in International Terror, but that is another story.....

"America is the killer of humanity, and we will keep raising our voice against it,..."

Notice how quickly Muslims forget America's aid to earthquake victims in Pakistan. That did not send Bush's message 'We will treat you fairly', but UAE Ports Deal will?

For those interested in Pakistan's terror-ties, join yahoo group 'pakistan-terror '.

The very idea of a Paki is our worst nightmare. The intelligence and energy of a Hindu combined with the saliva-drooling savagery and stupidity of a Moslem.

Well genetics has very little to with the qualities that Indians in the west are known for. Its culture that matters... Most of my Sindhi brethern are Muslims. The once agriculturally advanced Pakistani province of Sindh is now a wasteland. But 11 million Hindu Sindhis whom they kicked out after partition flourish in India and in West (one of the Britain's most richest men the Hinduja brothers are Sindhis.)

As for Hinduunity.org, well thats usual extreme Hindutva crap. I wouldnt recommend it to anybody.

Sita Ram Goel is a saint. May God, or the Gods, bless that man. While the ideal of intellectualism has so obviously collapsed in the West, it seems to be holding fast on the Subcontinent. Ironic.

Sita Ram Goel died unheralded, unknown back in 2001. Indian pseudo-intellectuals are obessed with socialism and history denial. We are in the same boat dude.

@Gorkhali

I read the Rajput ArbCom hearing at Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Rajput

I am barely able to concieve that they banned the entire Hindu Side... Wikipedia has been overtaken by commies (like D.Bachmann who incedently booted me from Wikipedia's higher echelons) and Muslims.
Theres some seroious history denial by Muslims at work in Wikipedia.

(as they wanted everyone to be converted to Islam... thank god my ancestors didnt else I would have been one of those burning flags).

Well there may one of my distant cousin Aslam amongst those flag-burners in Paki-land. Last forced conversion in family happened in 1947 during the partition!

I'm sure that your Muslim minority is infinitely better treated than are the Hindu etc. minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

- Hammer_Time.

Well check this Dhimmiwatch article about forced coversions in Punkistan: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009388.php

Last known genocide occured in 1971. Nearly 1 million Hindus were exterminated in erstwhil East Pakistan by West Pakistani forces. Though in this genocide even Bangladeshi Muslims were killed in hundreds of thousands, Hindus were specifically targeted. Guess whose side Nixon was on?

http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html
http://www.secularislam.org/bangladesh/hasan2.htm
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_bangla.html

If the riots continue and grow, the Pakistani security forces responsible for containing them will at some point go over and join the rioters. Musharraf will try to get the last plane out; perhaps he will find Texas a congenial place of exile. If he doesn’t make that plane, his head will serve as a football, not just of the political variety. ...

The fall of Pakistan to militant Islam will be a strategic disaster greater than anything possible in Iraq, even losing an army. It will be a greater disaster than a war with Iran that costs us our army in Iraq. Osama and Co. will have nukes, missiles to deliver them, the best conventional armed forces in the Moslem world and an impregnable base for operations anywhere else. As North Korea’s Dear Leader has shown the world, nobody messes with you if you have nukes. Uncle Sam takes off his battle rattle and asks Beijing, or somebody, if they can possibly sponsor some talks.

That ticking sound Mr. Bush hears is not Mr. Cheney’s pacemaker. It’s the crocodile, and he’s getting rather close.

"Paking it in" - William Lind at Defense and the National Interest

O.T

Planned Exhibit of Cartoons Protested
The caricatures of Muhammad will be displayed at a UCI student forum. Muslims object, and university officials are wary.

Plans by a Republican student group at UC Irvine to showcase the controversial cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that led to violent protests around the world are drawing condemnation from Muslim groups and university officials.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/orange/la-me-cartoon25feb25,1,2407822.story?coll=la-editions-orange&ctrack=1&cset=true

'A poster above' cracked me up:

"...N Korea's whole basis for existance is Communism..."

Hardly. If they exist for anything at all it is to worship the bizarre cult around the deceased Kim Il sung and his deranged son, the 'dear leader' Kim Yong Il.

You'll find more communism in an Israeli Kibbutz than in the North Korean gulag.

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1049#

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48996

Now take notes carefully-there will be a quiz.

I'll be wearing my Mohammed cartoon t-shirt on the UCI (University of California, Irvine) campus this morning. Sadly, there are a few Muslims here in Irvine. I invite them to try and stop me from wearing the t-shirt.

Civil War II is coming, folks. Be prepared, be ready, be armed.

reports from iraq
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

Hi Hammer and everyone,

I was not saying against those websites voi.org but I was just trying to say that do not judge all hindu's on basis of some website. The biggest fact you can think is that India is 85% Hindus, Still the most important temple (RAM Mandir) is still not constructed(though I dont care and most dont) which was destroyed by muslim invasions centuries back. Hindus are fighting in court to win the case, but can you expect this kind of thing in muslim countries where they will just kill and demolish every other religion's place.

We are secular people and Muslims in India are given same priviledgs and rights as Hindus PLUS extra right to marry another 3 women. We suffered the Islamic terrorism for so many years, wont be wrong if I said so many centuries but when ever we tried to say at the world stage, we were sidelined by major powers thinking we are thirdworld countries and its a problem of third world countries. We tried to explain that its fanatism and its terrorism and no freedom struggle, but everytime we were sidelined. Its time now since everyone has seen the ugly face of ISLAM that we stand together and make a way out of this ugly shit.
The so called Moderate muslims are very few in number and the problem lies in that 90% of Muslims will call them moderate and still support the terrorists indirectly saying they are right. How can you be moderate and support Killings, may be they are used to see killings from their childhood, thats why.
But we got to change things now.

You've got to see this. I love it!

http://www.danishmuhammedcartoons.com/Apology.html

Aman, how about the Voice of Dharma? Several years ago, I bookmarked a fascinating article about Negationism in India which was linked to VoD, although I haven't really read much on the website itself. The Negationism article is an education in itself, as it details the history of the muslim invasions and the ensuing genocide, etc. Some of it I already knew but not in such great detail.

If the content of the Negationism article is correct, the official stance in India is one of denial regarding the Islamic genocides, subjugation, iconoclasm, and attempts to conquer all of India. I was left with the distinct impression that it is not politically correct to even think of these heinous atrocities, much less discuss them, although many advocate abolishing India's offical revisionist history credo for the facts. What say you?

Hardly. If they exist for anything at all it is to worship the bizarre cult around the deceased Kim Il sung and his deranged son, the 'dear leader' Kim Yong Il.
You'll find more communism in an Israeli Kibbutz than in the North Korean gulag. Posted by: sheik yer'mami

Sheikh

You are starting to sound like communists who've told me that the Soviets weren't true communists.

My point above was that if the Communist, or, if you will, the Kim regime, folds and that country, gods willing, become democratic, they wouldn't have a good reason to remain separate from Seoul. Of course, the South Koreans may balk at their LG-Samsung economy come crashing down as a result of such a merger, but there wouldn't be the cultural differences between the 2 countries to rationalize North Korea's sovereign existance.

To re-cast it in an Islamic context, countries like Malaysia & Indonesia could cast off Islam, without looking like Thailand or Phillipines as a result. If Pakistan cast off Islam, it would be tough to tell the difference between Pakistan and India - maybe after two or more generations. Same goes for Bangladesh.

Note that most Indians would be opposed to a resultant merger, due to the effect it would have on the now booming Indian economy.

Hi Infidel Pride,

Well Indians wouldnt be against the merger of India and Pakistan because we are booming, but because we already have 150 million troubles and dont want to double it. Do you think it would be wise to do that. What will eventually happen is that they will try to recapture India and turn it in a Islamic state, then west has to deal with another terrorist state probably called Indiastan(India+pakistan) where Hindus will be killed and buried and eventually it will be Muslim majority in 30 years.

If you think that the next 3 generations there would be a difference, let me cite you some expamples I have come across:

I have some guys working with me in my company who have come to North America from Pakistan 2 yrs ago. These guys are educated, all of them will get CPA very soon too, but they still go to prayer 5 times a day, have very rigid backround and thinking and they were very upset for the cartoons. One of the guys in conversation told me Fuck democracy and I was taken back with his comments and I stopped the conversation as I didnt want any confrontation. These Muslims just want Islam ruling, they dont want democracy, so why dont we tell them to stay where they are and not polute everything.

Answer to Susan

Since childhood all Indians are taught that all religions are equal and everybody is brother and sister, but this is not what is taught by Muslims to their kids. If India presently donot deny that genocides, its like fueling the anger and rage towards the fellow Muslims.
Hindus are very tolerant and forward looking people, we just want to live and let live. Dont believe in imposing our religion on anyone. And interesting thing is that many of you wouldnt know that Buddhism is considered a branch of Hinduism. Similarly Sikhism is also a branch of Hinduism. Hnduism is a faith to do right things and not impose what is right.

Hello Vikrant_Camberleykar and Friends,

I checked out the links you provided. Very interesting and tragic reading.

As a boy of about 10 years I have vague memories of seeing about the floods and subsequent strife in Bangladesh. Of course it was a faraway trouble and most news here was dominated by Vietnam, and then Watergate.

Also checked out the JihadWatch news from December about forced conversions in Pakistan. Sickening!

I will also be adding Freedom at Midnight to my booklist (and Legacy of Jihad).

I did order and read the indispensible "Why I Am Not A Muslim" by Ibn Warraq, and that book also contains some history of Jihad against India which was very interesting and eye-opening for me. Thus I did already have the ISIS site bookmarked. I'm afraid they have a hopeless task in front of them but all the best to them. I don't know if Warraq is of Indian or Paki origin (or possibly Bengali?), but he is a hero to me and I have great respect for him. His writing resonates deeply with me.

Time for bed again. Thanks again and all my best, Hammer_Time (as in Charles "The Hammer" Martel who dealt the plundering Jihadists a decisive defeat in 732.

We stand or fall together.

You ever notice how the media can't just say Mohammed, but they've got to say "The Prophet Mohammed"--you ever notice that? Everyone in the media who puts the word "Prophet" before that sack of urine's name should be fired immediately, as they would be if any of the news channels were actually interesting in being "fair and balanced"--that's NOT "fair and balanced." Do they says Jesus the Son of God every time they mention him? NO FREAKING WAY! So where's the fair balancedness?????

Aman

I was discussing a hypothetical - if Pakistan ceased being Islamic, would India welcome it?

Anyway, I agree with you. I avoid discussing either religion or politics with any Muslims, period. In my workplace, I wouldn't want anything like that going to HR, while outside my workplace, I don't have Muslim associates, so it's not an issue. Several years ago, I had a Pak colleague who was rooting for Imran Khan to come to power so that Pakistan becomes more Islamized. I made it a point to agree with him, just so that the more extreme such countries become, the more unavoidable a confrontation between Mohammedans and Infidels become.

It won't happen under Bush, but for the GOP to retain power in 2008, they have to take an anti-Islamic stance (as opposed to a mere anti terrorist stance).

Vikrant_Camberleykar:

I am now banned from the Rajput article on Wiki. Regardless of me stating my credentials and expertise on the topic, I was banned because Wikipedia is officially a TERRORIST PROPAGANDA instrument.

A bunch of Muslims are going to wirte about Hindu history.

@Pig Farmer:

VOI, get their "Arise Arjuna" by Dr. David Frawley (an American writer from New Mexico), I met him in 1995 when I was an outright Hindu activist against Islamic terrorism during my undergrad days.

I used to sell their books (VOI) on campus when I was an undergrad and president of the Hindu Students Council, the student wing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. I used to get into open confrontations with the MSA (MUSlim Students Assoc) all the time.

A friend of mine, whom I recently bumped into all these years later, remided me by saying "You crazy brown F*cker, you always warned us that the Muslims would attack us one day and I always brushed you off, but now I always recall your words from the day......."

Hindus, especially Hardcore Hindus, know that Muslims are out to kill everyone. I have friends from every faith group, I even belong to a christian fraternity (because they wanted me, go figure), one of my cloest friends is a Catholic Priest, and I know as a Hindu I can assimilate and live in peace with everyone. Yet I know in my heart that a true Muslim can never live in peace with others..........ever.

@Alert:

Good joke.

-Cheers

In regard to the cartoons the American media, aside from some individual opinions, should have universally published them as a show of solidarity for the Western support of freedom of speech and press. But where has the MSM, which usually screams about freedom of expression when such things as "piss Christ" are criticized, been? Hiding behind their desks and mumbling PC nonsense about "sensitivity" and other banalities. At a time when it was important not be cowardly and craven when confronted by militant Islamofascism -- our media (with VERY few exceptions) caved. Such efforts to appease will surely be seen as weakness -- which they are! It makes one doubt our resolve to win any war, let alone a protracted war against terrorism.

Hammer_time et al. Don't forget that Pakistan was once part of India but had to be partitioned by the British in 1947 because it was a land of fanatical Islamists constantly persecuting Indians. And today it's an Islamic nuclear state that's a time bomb - only a heartbeat away (i.e. Mushariff's heart) from unhinged Islamic aggression.

Solidarity is truly shown with this cartoon, not sure if they are Brits or Americans, but a damn fine job.

http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php

-Cheers

I don't know much about India, but I do know that India would not be 85% Hindu is it wasn't for the fact that the majority muslim areas have demanded and received independance more than once because of unceasing violence. Same story, different place. Pakistan, Bangaldesh, what's next?

Hey Borg, yes, that's what Aman was referring to when he mentioned that India already has "150 million troubles" (Muslims) inside its borders. Double that with a re-absorbtion of Pakistan and the trouble would more than double.

Exactly right Topdog. Remember when Time and News-weak and all the other 'elite' media splashed images deeply insulting to Christians (like the cross in a jar of urine and mother mary made from cow dung and whatever else) ALL OVER their newspapers and magazines. And how they fawned over the artists who created those images. "Oh how Wonderfully PROVOCATIVE! We must show these images to EVERYONE!" Not only did they not think twice about the offense given to Christian believers (and i'm not Christian by the way), but they positively revelled in it. What Hypocrisy!

But Oh My Heavens, we mustn't offend the Muslims!
Even though there is rioting all around the world which is supposedly caused by the publication of these cartoons, the New York Times and all the other media elites of the western world, are suddenly gripped by the most touching sensitivity for Islamic religious feelings. And of course (they think) "we mustn't show these incredibly newsworthy images to our readers, lest more feelings be hurt". What hypocritical double-standards!

Anyway, rant over.

Actually, rant not quite over.

Remember those same wonderfully "provocative" artists who so boldly created those blasphemous images against Christianity? And the ones who made exhibits where the gallery patrons walked over the American flag? Remember how they were praised for their courageously provocative work?

Where are those same 'artists' now that Islam is front and center. What about that other incident that supposedly happened in Guantanamo Bay a couple of years ago where the interogater flushed a Koran down the toilet. Nevermind that it turned out not to be true (but it was in News-weak; it MUST be true, right?!) After all the rioting was over, and the dead buried, would not this Koran toilet flushing make for one hell of an exhibit for one of these incredibly courageous artists. How about a toilet mounted on a gallery wall with a Koran glowing with neon red inside?? Surrounded by a stout box of protective plexi-glass of course. Very stout. I'm telling you, as someone with more than a little artist in me myself, that this would make one incredibly powerful statement. Very provocative and thought-provoking. Oh, and riot-provoking too. And death-threat-provoking too. And arson and bomb threat-provoking. But wouldn't an artistic installation of such provocative power be incredibly daring and worthy?! Sure it would, but don't hold your breath waiting for this exhibit to show up anywhere. Oh no, we mustn't offend Muslims.

Wow Gorkali, that Zipperfish animation you linked to is certainly provocative and offensive. Some more 'Fat Ones' will have to be issued for the death of those responsible. Maybe Iran can even target one of their new nuclear warheads (when available in a few months) on to Zipperfish HQ.

The narrator is almost certainly American, simulating a (pretty bad) British accent. The only part i didn't like is the imitation of the 'Muslim' 7-Eleven clerk who is made to sound and look rather more like an Indian than a middle-eastern Muslim.

Don't forget that they only 'Muslim' to die in direct American retaliation after the attacks of 9-11 was some poor Sikh working at a convenience store somewhere who was tragically misidentified by an ignorant "patriot" American attempting some street justice revenge shortly after the trade towers came crashing down.

Gotta Go. Will be back.