Just remember keeds...only responsible people get to suffer the wrath of Allah. So if you want to be like us, the IRRESPONSIBLE, FANATICAL, WORK-AVERSE UMMAH, and avoid the wrath of Allah, we suggest you, uh, umm, Oh FARG! Death to you ALL!
These Muslim fanatics in New York should go back home to the stone age if they can't understand freedom. I hope the multiculturalists are getting a dose of reality from this and by seeing the non-Muslim world being terrorized by Muslims.
These Muslim fanatics in New York should go back home to the stone age if they can't understand freedom. I hope the multiculturalists are getting a dose of reality from this and by seeing the non-Muslim world being terrorized by Muslims.
Now there's a bunch of happy chappies...Dour,scowling males. Guess that 'bums up' 5 times a day, regulated farts[regulated everything],music forbidden,pork & alcohol forbidden, Infidel books forbidden, all that is left to look forward to is killing Infidels and shagging 72 Virgins in Allah's Brothel in the sky. Reminds me of that terrible old murdering hypocrite [apart from Mohammed] Ayatollah Khomeini-'"THERE IS NO JOY IN ISLAM." No humour either obviously. The faces of these boyos say it
all-"without the thrill of a stoning or beheading, the diversion of watching amputations,
what can we possibly find to do in New York except to go on another Protest March..."
Basically these little bullies who think they can frighten people into submission can go to hell.......just needed to say that ...made me feel better as I can't say it to their faces.
It seems many of us (those against Islam) are missing the point.
Many criticize Islam from religious positions (usually quoting from the bible) and in terms which levels them with Muslims.
It seems that the only problem with Muslims’ reaction to cartoons is not the reaction itself, but the way such reaction manifests. In essence it is like “we do not like when you mock Jesus, but as civilized people we do not react violently. Such violent reaction is a direct result of teachings of Islam as Judaism and Christianity are totally against it.”
I have written before that criticism of Islam from a religious position comes to a silly argument, whose religion is better.
We are laughing at the promise of perpetual virgins to a Muslim martyr and they are laughing at perpetual virginity of Mary. We criticize the Koran for violence and quote the bible as a recipe for peace (which it is not and they know it). The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite.
Any religion is an ideology and as such, no religion can escape to be a political movement. Even those of us, who do not believe a word of the Koran or the bible, still submit to a PC line that the religious beliefs deserve our respect as long as those beliefs do not promote hatred. A very naïve position at best.
I have respect for knowledge, culture and reason. I refuse to respect superstitious beliefs, them being Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other.
No doubt, we are far more civilized then the Muslims and the reason for it is not our Judeo-Christian background, but because most of us do not allow that background to influence our lives. We had been civilized before Judaism and Christianity were born and our civilization started to flourish again only when a few but the best of us had understood that.
I am getting old and my tolerance is wearing thin.
I am pissed at the attitudes of these squirrels. They have every right to express their opinions in this country BUT not to threaten death to others who may express opinions they do not agree with. No New Yorker's were stopping them from expressing their opinions but if they make the mistake of following through with any of the threats in this country, there will be a violent backlash. Being upset about cartoons of a PERSON who happened to have the great character of someone who likes having sex with a 9 year old seems stupid. I will attempt to buy a Qu'ran or two, flammable liquid, and a BIC lighter to have available in case these fine citizens come to my neigborhood for a demonstration and then I will be able to express my opinions about this farce.. Radical Imams are currently the scourge of the earth IMO.. My Anger grows more each day with these actions.
KNOW YOUR MUZZIES :What this jihad shit comes down to is an attack on private citizens by islamic death squads.
Private citizens are the softer targets.
Private citizens carry weight with their politicians and can be terrorised (as the citizens of Spain were) into removing those politicians from office who obstruct the goals of jihad. (In America, terrorists rely on liberals to pave the way for them and have the cooperation of the leftist media, the dems, and various "civil rights" groups whose aim is to disable the ability of law enforcement.)
As a private citizen you need to be aware of Death Squads. The threat of kidnap, the threat of sudden assault, and of the threat of disruption of public utilities and the contamination of food and water sources.
These are the basic tools of jihad....once liberalism has allowed them to infest and tied the hands of law enforcement.
You should be armed. You should have supplies to hold you in good stead against terrorist disruptions.
(nothing outlandish....but the same foresight that is applied to severe storm preparation....water, food, vitamins, prescription medicines, OTC meds,lights, generators, fuel, personal hygene supplies....etc)
And you should be aware of where your local muzzies congregate, of who they are, and of which jobs and positions they hold in your community.
You can not negotiate with these fanatics.
You can not pacify them. You can not ignore them and thereby cause them to go away.
But you can fight them, and you can kill the sons of bitches.
It is happening in Iraq and in Afghanistan .....more than the leftist media wants you to know. Terrorists are suffering horrific losses at a kill ratio of 47 of them to every innocent person they murder.
Citizens have had enough.
And in Iraq, out of the 5 major territories....the terrorists operate only in continually shrinking sectors of two remote areas. Iraq intends to close it's borders off from terrorist supporting neighbors.
It can be done. And it is a positive step.
IBRAHIM HOOPER (CAIR) …YOU MAKE US LAUGH… ARE YOU IN THE CARTOON BUSINESS TOO…
Filed under: Ebn Masr - CDK
I always said “if islam was not evil, it would’ve been the funniest burlesque play in town, not only for Saturday nite live …but every day and nite”. You would still be dead from islam, but dying of laughter. You should see it to believe it.
Host: “Isn’t there some truth in the political cartoon that shows Mohamed with a bomb device?”
Hooper (CAIR): “You can make political statements. You can criticize. You can do all of these things. But the cartoons themselves were designed as intentional insults to hurt people feelings, to provoke. That’s the difference in this case… But let me tell you how the prophet responded to attacks on himself: There was a lady who uses to throw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day she didn’t do it, the prophet went to inquire about her health because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to islam. So that’s how you respond to people who attack you with forgiveness and with kindness”.
Now I ask the audience to please don’t laugh yet before I tell you my story...(www.congressdebatekoran.org for the full article)
The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite. posted by pong
pong? unless you can present just one New Testament Scripture that preaches violence between humans - you are the hypocrite - and will rmain so - until you can present the New Testament Scriptures that preach violence. [you can't. There aren't any]
But the Koran - on the other hand - contains hundreds of vicious statements - that preach violence between humans. The Muslims are taught to behead, sever hands and feet, crucify, rape, lie and steal - to all non-Muslims.
Here is the 'Ark' that you, among many, have missed:
Saying you are a Christian - and actually being one - are two completely different acts. If you say you are a Christian - but carry out voilent acts - then you're not a Christian - no matter how much you claim to be.
Why? - Because there are no Holy Christian Scriptures to support violent actions.
on the other hand...
Saying you are a Muslim - and actually being one - are two completely diferent acts.
If you say you are a Muslim - and yet, can not bring yourself to kill an infidel - then your not a Muslim - no matter how much you claim to be.
Why? because the Koran commands it!
Until you, pong, - can present New Testament Scriptures that promote violence?
You will remain a hypocrite
It is people like you - who stand in the way of those who are trying to take down that which has produced a bunch of murderers. Those who proudly hail those signs in those protests - are murderers. Plain and simple.
It's very interesting how they use "must" and "punished". "Must" as in there can be no mercy for the offence of publishing, and "punished" as if the Western world is so stupid to believe that "punishment" is something you actually survive in the Islamic world.
Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? yes. religion is bullshit.. billions of self proposed 'rational human beings' still choose to adhere to primitive faiths that are so foul, corrupt and often perverse that it makes me sick...
Two things come to mind: 1) don't these jerks have a job and 2) I need to get Fido on a leash, go down to the UN and pass out some McRibs. I'm sure protesting makes you hungry.
First thing that comes to mind when looking at the picture is "DAMN they're ugly."
This cartoon thing is going to end up cutting islams throat and it's all their fault. They thought they knew how to handle infidels... they should have tried herding cats first.
Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? Posted by: stranger
YEPPERS! He did!
Is that all ya got stranger? Come on - can't you do better than that????????
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels [NOT HUMANS] shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
Is that all ya got stranger?
How pitiful
How sad!!!
Why?
Cause I can give you whole whole bunch of commands from the Koran that preach - beheadings, rape, cucifixions, lies and theft.
What part of this Understanding are you not getting stranger?
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Stranger, you forgot to mention Luke 9:11, which is the Beginning of the Parable:
'And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.'
Jesus is telling a Story. This is NOT a commandment.
If you are going to lie about what Jesus said, at least find something that can't be easily verified.
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
"There was a lady who uses to throw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day she didn’t do it, the prophet went to inquire about her health because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to islam. So that’s how you respond to people who attack you with forgiveness and with kindness”. posted by qalambo
I find it very ironic that examples of Christian militancy (in the form of a parable or not) is locked away in the same distant past as the examples of Muslim charity.
Beav~ pray tell, how does a parable which would plainly appear to relate to the Second Coming and final judgement, have anything to do with 'Christian militancy'?
Can you provide us examples of people who quoted this verse in support of their actions?
Meanwhile, the story of the lady (or the Jew, or the Jewish Lady) appears to be apocrypha. Used to justify an illusion of 'peace.'
To Pong--
You are wrong for one simple reason. While it is true that Chrisitanity and Judaism were once midevil religions which were very violent- JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY HAVE UNDERGONE REFORMATIONS. Period.
Martin Luther. Reformed judaism. But, if you do some research, it is easy to see that there has not been an equivalent reformation in the islamic faith. You would expect that one day, with the moslems having contact with reformed western culture, they would have a reformation in their faith. But, it seems like the moslems are actually going BACKWARDS. I don't know why this is, but until they do have a reformation in their dastardly faith, the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to my intelligence.
incidenetally, a few years ago in New York, there was a play written by a (gay)Tony-award winner in which Jesus was carrying on a homosexal affair with Judas. While Christians were offended, the playwrite DID NOT EVER fear for his life. No one called for his beheading. And the play even did reasonable well (damned liberal New yorkers)... The point is Christians ain't like the moslems, and how dare you say they are.
You people, Gary and Beth, have gone way off the beam. I was not referencing anything but posters on this board, READ MY POST, and was showing that the material claiming "christian militancy AND muslim charity" come from the PAST and that this situation is very IRONIC compared to what we are seeing today. Don't put words in my mouth OR thump your bible at me.
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong.
I've read the Bible from end to end. I was Fascinated by religious studies so much, in grade school, that I often forgot I had a music lesson (unfortunately), mid-way thru that class.
And yet I have never seen verses like that as a call to militancy.
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong. Posted by: Gary
Nope - no they are not Gary
Why?
Because the Commands given by God differ for the angels and humans....
Take a look at these:
Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. {{{He speaks to BOTH the visible - AND the invisible
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
It is the angels - not humans - who will carry out the act of totally destroying the wicked.
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong. Posted by: Gary
Nope - no they are not Gary
Why?
Because the Commands given by God differ for the angels and humans....
Take a look at these:
Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. {{{He speaks to BOTH the visible - AND the invisible
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
It is the angels - not humans - who will carry out the act of totally destroying the wicked.
Beth-
I am not a religious scholar. However, their is reformed christianity and reformed judaism. Although, i think the teachings of Christ don't need reformation - the ORTHODOX HIERARCHIES of Judaism and Christianity have been reformed by more secular forces - remember, Popes used to sell passes for heaven to thier cronies.
The basic crux of what I am saying is that islam is a young religion, and about 500 years behind christianity. but, i do see them even moving farther BACKWARD, and that is some scary s#$%.
An imam in Pakistan has offered a reward to any Muslim who kills the Danish cartoonist (I don't think the dumbass knows there's more than one).
I think it's high time we turned the tables and offered a reward to anyone who bumps off these imams who issue these fatwas. Let's see how brave they are when the boot's on the other foot.
"All we ask - is that you present the New testament Scriptures to support your claim"
Again you miss the point and try to put words in my mouth. So that you understand:
The "claim" you think you can force me to accept, is in fact, a lift from strangers post (see above).
If you know this verse
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
This is an example of militancy even if it is a parable whose point is to advise against violence.
I called it "christian militancy" because it came from the bible. Before you try to split hairs with me:
The point was: what is the real context of this verse?
The real point for me, was; why do we have to look into the past for examples of Muslim charity?
It is becuase they do not exist in practice now.
Why do we need to look into the past for examples of christian militancy?
It is because they do not exist in practice today.
It is not my opinion that christian militancy is prescribed, nor was it ever my claim, stop saying that it is.
But what IS my opinion, is that I have been wasting too much time conversing with an idiot.
Gary -
Beth said, "pong? unless you can present just ONE New Testament Scripture that preaches violence between humans - you are the hypocrite - and will remain so"...The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." l consider moderate muslims christians - Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19. Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12 Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. xtians have alot in common with muslims.. (shock horror) False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9.. everyone will have to worship jesus...whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10. oh stop it, l'm getting a stitch.
"All we ask - is that you present the New testament Scriptures to support your claim"
Again you miss the point and try to put words in my mouth. So that you understand:
The "claim" you think you can force me to accept, is in fact, a lift from strangers post (see above).
If you know this verse
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
This is an example of militancy even if it is a parable whose point is to advise against violence.
I called it "christian militancy" because it came from the bible. Before you try to split hairs with me:
The point was: what is the real context of this verse?
The real point for me, was; why do we have to look into the past for examples of Muslim charity?
It is becuase they do not exist in practice now.
Why do we need to look into the past for examples of christian militancy?
It is because they do not exist in practice today.
It is not my opinion that christian militancy is prescribed, nor was it ever my claim, stop saying that it is.
And while your at it, don't confuse me with Stranger
footnote - not only does the Islamic faith fit the criteria of a devastating plague in its purest form, it represents an affront to the dignity of man and a disgrace to the intelligence of its brain dead believers who exert a medieval mentality worthy of a shallow grave...
Beth-
I am not a religious scholar. Posted by: templar
Neither am I Templar. I'm about as dumb as they get! Is there a harder way? - show it to me [lols - but true]
remember, Popes used to sell passes for heaven to thier cronies
and as you remember that one Templar - remember this also:
Mat 23:9 Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
The word 'Pope' means 'papa' in Itialian.
The basic crux of what I am saying is that islam is a young religion, and about 500 years behind christianity. but, i do see them even moving farther BACKWARD, and that is some scary s#$%.
Well surprise surprise! Someone has finally noticed!
The Koran writings went out immediately to all those who were forced under its power.
But {and that is a BIG BUT!} not so with the New testament. The New Testament was spread by the new printing press to the people - approx 1000 years AFTER the Koran.
So there's another 'theory' - easily flushed down the commode
"This cartoon thing is going to end up cutting islams throat and it's all their fault. They thought they knew how to handle infidels... they should have tried herding cats first."
It was the outgoing German leader who said to the Muslims,
something like:-
For those who want death,
maybe it is their own death they will get.
I definitely think that Islam is going to loose its footing ~ trying to take over Europe.
It is just an outright greedy gesture.
Almost every Muslim in Europe is here - for either economic reasons or becasue of violence in their home countries. [Typical of the state of the Islamic world today.]
OK - they were given refuge.
But rather than be thankful ~ its you are going to follow the rules of our religion or else?
_____
If an Islamic country is what they want ~ we can show them any one ~ of their choosing. All Islamic countries are just an airplane ride away.
so, the new testament is younger than the koran? is that true?
No Templar - it's not younger.
But - it was not given to the poeple for approx 1000 years after the Koran was given.
The so-called self-proclaiming 'Christian' leaders of that time would not allow it to be released to the people. But King James prevailed - obviously.
Look at what the Islamic lands have produced: Immigrants galore - and a time of trouble that has never been seen by this world before.
The Lord Jesus - is the ONLY Lord that is mentioned the U.S. Constitution [Aticle VII] No other country has that honor.
Is America the most powerful country on earth?
And was she made the most powerful country on earth because of Jesus - or because of men?
Before anyone spouts their answer - know this:
The New Testament is the most Powerful and sure Foundation. {{{No man has that same power - because no man can claim he is God. {This fact - the 'atheists' do not understand.....
A house divided - is a house that will surely fall
and just look at what it will fall to!
the foundation that has united the beheaders and the rapists.
The New Testament is also a Foundation - in which to Unite those who want Peace
It also has the power to breed prosperity - and America is its proof.
In 1915, after a German U-boat (number "20", to be exact) sank the passenger liner the Lusitania, killing almost 200 Americans onboard -including freethinking author Elbert Hubbard and classical musician Enrique Granados, sadly- the U.S. was deciding whether to fight Germany over this provocation.
The Germany ambassador in Washinton was trying to throw some weight around in the debate so he told his American counterpart to "Remember, there are 500,000 German army reservists living in American."
In reply, his American counterpart said what we should be saying to all of these hysterical, anti-freedom cultists:
"And remember, we have 500,001 lamp posts in America."
The battle is between:
-Let the intolerant of our freedoms use these liberties to destroy freedom itself, and meekly allow their violent cult take over the world,
Or say:
It stops here. Now. We know what you want. And it will not be permitted.
Then forehoses to spray thewm off the curb and into paddywagons as seditionists for a cult that seeks the violent overthrow of the country.
Or are we not to believe what they say?
I goddamned believe them.
So I oppose them.
And would imprison them- in self-defense.
And write operas about it, make up dances to mock it, and celebrate the liberty of humanity in every way they wish to crush.
So here we go, once again. Instead of discussing what's going on in our own country, here goes Beth turning it into her own personal religious soapbox. Why is it so hard to put aside religiuos differences and stay focused on the real issue here - which, surprise surprise, is *not* the supremacy of Christianity over all other religions?
All this bickering over which Religion is best is a joke. When was the last time a Christian told you to go to church or we will cut off your head. Did I miss the story about the Christians that are raping women in the name of god? I do not believe what I am seeing in NY. Evidently they will not get it until a mushroom cloud is visible over their city. This country is breaking down into 3 camps,
A. The Muslims.
B. Those that are insane enough to believe that we can find a way to get along.
C.Everybody else.
When the s#*t hits the fan, those who are in group A and B are screwed. There will be no "Please let me in I had no idea that my views would get some of your friends killed. Too late they made their beds now let them sleep in them.
the majority of the New was written 80 - 140 ad.. the quran 622 ad.. There's speculation Revelations is the oldest as it was stolen from the Egyptians as was the fairytale about jesus stolen from pagans, hell Horus of egypt was called the "christ" some 1800 yrs b4 the elledged appearance of jesus.
Templar:
I don't know why this is, but until they do have a reformation in their dastardly faith, the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to my intelligence.
If the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to your intelligence, why would you bring such an idea to our discussion? I could not find in my comment anything remotely close to your statement.
I did not state that Christians are like Moslems. As a matter of fact, I pointed to a difference between them and us (and it was not a compliment to them).
People are often arguing with their own statements instead of reading and understand what other people wrote.
So much for intelligence…
You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit. Part of the reason EUrope let Islam run rampant, allowed so much Muslim immigration, is that the EUropeans have much less belief in God than do Americans. Their atheism makes them oblivious to what a determined cult can do. They treat Islam as joke so their automobiles get torched (France) and embassies get burned to the ground They just don't get Islam. They don't get Jihad. They don't get Muslims immigrating to their nations and having 10 children supported by state welfare payments.
Beth- I'm Jewish and have God in my life. Belief in God is what will help America stave off Islam. This belief is what makes us more aware of the menace of Muhammadanism. I like the fundamentalist preachers who shine a strong light on Muhammad's cult
OK as A New yorker i have to speak out about this NY protest. First I would like to say that They could'nt have picked a better day to do this. This is a 3 day weekend and for the most part the city is empty as people leave by 3pm. The protest did'nt start until then. Second, WE GOTTA GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER!!! They have their "insular commuinty and mosques" as their organisational tool. They all can rally at a days notice. I did'nt know about this until 7pm EST on a blog (LGF). By the time i could've gotten there (it started at 3pm) with NYC traffic it wouldve been like 830 pm, and the rally would've been over. I would've been there with a suppost Danmark sign! I would'nt have cared if i was the only Dhimmi within a mile, I'm sick of this shit. But heres the problem, we gotta know about this shit before hand. We gotta keep an eye on the web sites that promote this BS so we know if they are gonna try any BS. Then either we meet at a designated place and time then from there go to the rally or just go there and try to find eachother and stick together. (just like they do) Dont worry white boys, there will be tons o' policia to protect your pastey ass! :D I know there are a few "loose associations" like protest warriors and what not, but mostly they are in other cities. I guess NYC is TOO liberal (and scared!) I'm thinkin we could use various sites like this to announce events BEFOREHAND so we show'em America not for the taking and we aint scared of those 5th column traitors!
You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit.
Posted by: dennisw
Don’t think for one second that because I am indignant at fundamentalist christians (with their own agenda) who would savage my posts and distort my opinions. That I do not understand the seriousness of the task at hand. As someone raised in a christian environment, I forgive, and ask forgiveness, we are all human.
but I am a practical person who must seek resolution to this problem in the “Here and Now”
Jesus will not save us from Islam and Allah will not deliver victory to Muslims. I do not accept the notion that this is a fight of the ephemeral world.
It is a clash of cultures on a world scale.
It is a fight we must win.
Most distressing for me is It is a fight in which our side has no champions as of yet.
Where is George Patton?
Where is Black-Jack Pershing?
Where is Douglas MacAurthur?
Where is Thomas Jackson?
"Pack your bags, muslims. Your holiday in the USA is coming to an end."
-- one of the posters above.
Last night (Friday, February 17) on the Charlie Rose interview show, Donald Rumsfeld asserted emphatically that "It's only a small number of Muslim extremists who are the problem -- the vast majority of Muslims are moderate!"
No, when we have our leading neo-cons like Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld repeating such idiotic things over and over (let alone the rest of our media, education, leadership and millions of Americans), the Muslim holiday in the USA will enjoy a long stay.
Good sound advise Metamoros & good luck, just dont use religion to combat the muslim scum otherwise it will be sinking to their depraved level of fundamental BS. "my god is better than your god" In other words dont be a rabid fundy like Beth. Dennisw - You said, "Part of the reason Europe let Islam run rampant, allowed so much Muslim immigration, is that the Europeans have much less belief in God than do Americans". What a load of CRAP! Get yourself a world atlas, will ya!
For all you critics of Christianity posting in this thread, just remember one very important thing -- like it or not you would not be a Westener without Judeo-Christian influences.
Now stop your ridiculous attempts at drawing equivalencies between Islam and Christianity. When Islam allows its own Martin Luther to live long enough to bring about a necessary Enlightment to its Dark Ages cult, then we can down to an interesting discussion on the topic of world religions.
But, as we all can recognize, the very idea that reform of Islam will ever come about by peaceful means is ridiculous. 'By the sword' is just about the only language that Muslims understand. God knows, they threaten us with them often enough, and sometimes quite literally.
The majority of Americans are not stupid. The msm and the pols can tell us that the sky is green over and over, but we know better. We really need men with the attitudes of "Old Hickory" Andrew Jackson or Willian Tecumseh Sherman. Patton will do of course.
I am so glad that they have finally started to show their stripes here in America! Nothing like waking up the masses. In Southern California we have demonstrations by the Radical Illegal Mexican groups who have no problem preaching their true intentions regarding the retaking of the Southern States in America. Take a look at the first three clips on this web page I have listed below and listen to the words coming out of their mouths.....plus take a look at the heads covered with the checkard scarves.....looks familiar?
To Mackie:
Great post. A beatutiful tribute to the men, women, and children slughtered by these cowards. Shame on all who have tried to blunt our war efforts.
To Beth & Gary:
I don't think there is a need to 'dialogue' with mockers and scoffers. The best we can do is pray for them.
This garbage-Lady-story that Hooper told to congress, wasn't that debunked recently on Ali Sina's FFI?
I tried to look it up but I couldn't find it. Apparently there is nothing in the Mohammedan scriptures to support it, but plenty of what Mo really did (chopping heads and killing a sleeping poetess among her children)
Wonder why Hoopy didn't tell that story to congress. Was he afraid they'd all be laughing their heads off?
pong said "No doubt, we are far more civilized then the Muslims and the reason for it is not our Judeo-Christian background, but because most of us do not allow that background to influence our lives."
Again, i disagree. As Mr Spencer points out in his most recent book, a great many scientific advancments can be attributed to our judeo-chritian culture, not in spite of it. Have you really read the words of Christ? They are arguably the most profound wisdom teachings ever encountered - right up there with Buddha- love your enemy, turn the other cheek, live an upright life... Martin Luther King was a Chrisitan whose ideals of nonviolence were taken from Christ. And, it has been suggetsed by many that one reason that Jews are so perennially successfull is that their religion demands thought, interpretation and constsant scrutiny- which of course has important parallels in law, medincine, science and art, to which jews have always contributed far beyond their small numbers.Your thesis seems to be - all religion is equally bad, but we are more secular than muslims. No, I disagree with this- we are successful BECAUSE of Judeo-Chrisitanity, not inspite of it.
We've been through these debates many times on this site. It would be useful if JW/DW would post a brief summary of the usual arguments and counterarguments so that we can get past this.
As someone who doesn't believe in any revealed religions, I nevertheless do not for one second believe that all religions are equal from a moral standpoint. We can look at
1. The substance of the doctrine itself.
2. What is preached and emphasized by religious leaders (clerics, imams, mullahs, sheikhs, etc.).
3. The history of the religion's policies as applied.
4. The present-day practices and attitudes of the religion's followers.
It has been established over and over again that Islam is morally worse on all these points and more. It is not merely morally worse, but it is a clear and present danger. Consider the fact that we (nonbelievers) can at least have discussions with Christians and Jews. We can criticize these religions freely without fear of ourselves, our families, or our countries being attacked. Indeed, Christians and Jews today can freely criticize their own religion. This is not the case with Islam, as we have seen over and over again.
I have some agreement, and some disagreement, with your post February 18, 2006 05:07 AM
Pong: “Even those of us, who do not believe a word of the Koran or the bible, still submit to a PC line that the religious beliefs deserve our respect as long as those beliefs do not promote hatred. A very naïve position at best.”
I agree. The idea that religions should be immune from criticism, a view championed by the Vatican and by all governments in the Anglosphere, is PC nonsense that must be demolished. However, in practice, it is really only Islam that is being sheltered from the usual criticism and lampoon. Islam is in the most need of criticism, obviously. But it is being sheltered on the basis of threat and violence, not just by PC prejudices. No legitimate reason has ever been offered as to why Islam should not be criticized or lampooned.
All the Abrahamic religions promote hatred of nonbelievers. However, the Koran, Hadith, and Sira are the worst. Re: promotion of hatred: The Koran alone contains 250+ verses condemning the non-Muslims to hell-fire, simply for being non-Muslims. The Koran states explicitly that Muslims must hate non-Muslims forever (60:4), unless the non-Muslims convert to Islam. Even non-Muslims who do good works are going to hell according to the Koran, but the Bible at least leaves room to argue that good works are more important than faith (the Bible contains some contradictory statements on this point, but the Koran is absolutely clear that good works of non-Muslims aren’t accepted by Allah; the non-Muslims are going to hell anyway).
The Islamic texts require the execution of critics and mockers of the religion, a rule that is still followed by Muslims. The Islamic texts require the execution of apostates and hypocrites.
Pong:“I have written before that criticism of Islam from a religious position comes to a silly argument, whose religion is better.”
Is it silly to argue that Buddhism and Taoism are better than Islam?!
If you’ve read the Bible and the Islamic texts with a critical eye and with certain key issues in mind, some important differences emerge. Whereas the Old Testament contains numerous terrible passages of violence and atrocity, from the standpoint of modern-day Christians and Jews, these passages are descriptive rather than prescriptive. This doesn't excuse it. But the violent passages of the Koran are more open-ended and tend to be more prescriptive—i.e., prescribing violent actions that must be carried out as a religious duty—than descriptive. The Koran authorizes the Islamic mission to all mankind, the whole world, until the Last Day. This mission is to make all the world Islamic, to make all people Muslims, and any non-Muslims left must live under Islamic law in a subjugated condition. The use of force, if necessary, in accomplishing this goal is not only approved, but glorified in many bellicose verses. All disbelievers, in the whole world, must be given the option to convert to Islam, or else live as subjugated humiliated slaves or dhimmis, or else be put to death. Neither Christianity nor Judaism has this combined violent-imperialistic policy. The Old Testament is violent but not imperialistic. The New Testament offers a mision to the whole world but does not authorize believers to use violence in this mission. Fighting purely for the sake of making Islam superior to the others and destroying disbelief is prescribed and glorified in the Koran, Hadith, and Sira. This makes Islam inherently much more dangerous than Judaism or Christianity.
Aside from all that, consider the overall message or impression one gets from reading the religious text. Read the New Testament, and read the Koran. My overall impression is that despite some significant flaws, the NT is a book whose overall message is compassion and fairness to all people. The Koran is overwhelmingly a book of hate which tells believers to be forgiving amongst themselves but to act harshly against the non-Muslims, to oppose non-Muslims socially, politically, and militarily.
Pong:“The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite.”
This is flat wrong. In a single stretch of 250 years of history, Muslim imperialists in India had slaughtered approximately 70 million Hindus, simply on the grounds that they were non-Muslims (“idolaters”). On total number of deaths due to pursuit of an ideology, adherence to the core tenets of Islam is the chief cause of death of more innocent people than any other ideology in the history of humankind.
Besides tallying up numbers killed, one must look at the reasons why people were killed. Islamic imperialism involved the killing of people simply on the grounds that they were non-Muslims and/or had refused to convert to Islam. Muslims spread outward, invading surrounding countries and slaughtering and raping in full accordance with the Koran, all for the ostensive purpose of making Allah's religion supreme.
You refer to the “J-C” period. Do you mean Judeo-Christian, of do you mean post Jesus Christ (i.e., the A.D. period?). In any case, it’s a moot point. Let us ask what is Judeo-Christian about the period? This goes back to the issue of doctrinal support. Spreading Christianity by force was never authorized. Spreading Islam by force, if necessary, is a religious duty.
Islam’s early expansion, begun by Mohammad and carried forth by the early Caliphs, was an intense period of bloody religious imperialism. Islam is a “religion” that is founded upon capture of land, booty, and women and children that could be used as slaves, with some ad hoc “revelations” from Allah thrown in whenever Mohammad needed to come up with a justification for whatever crime he happened to be committing at the time.
Pong:“Any religion is an ideology and as such, no religion can escape to be a political movement.”
It cannot be denied that the Abrahamic religions have a political component. However, this is weak in Christianity, which permits a division between church and state (e.g., render unto Caesar…). It strong, approaching absolute, in Islam. No one may share in Allah’s government. The world must be submitted to Islamic law, period. Christianity has no such feature. True, theocrats in the U.S. are attempting to impose their vision on the masses, but they don’t have doctrinal support with which to impose this vision on others, and they are still limited by the constitution and by the system of democracy, and by the free expression (allowing for criticism and argument) which Americans enjoy more than perhaps any society (except, perhaps, Denmark!). Also, theocrats in the U.S. do not use violence to impose their view on the masses. That Christianity has survived as the dominant religion in the U.S.—-a free society where sacred cows are ready targets—-does suggest that there is some merit in the Christian religion itself. Being a Christian is not entirely due to family and social influence/upbringing, because Christians (today) are free to leave the religion and are free to criticize it, as well as take personal individualistic interpretations of the Scriptures, rather than relying on an imam authority or an “ummah” popular opinion to tell them how to interpret. In other words, Christianity as practiced today in modern democracies offers choice. It is not perfect and there are still problems, but these are minor indeed compared to the problems with Islam. Islam, even in modern democracies, limits choice, forbids criticism, penalizes dissent, penalizes apostacy harshly, and does rely on authority of the imam and the group-think of the ummah. Islam in western socities has proven to be a force that seeks to subvert and overthrow free and democratic values. Overall, it would be ludicrous to equate the theocratic influences in the U.S. to the instituted Islamic theocracy in countries such as Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
I think it is very sad that this thread has been "over-run" by fundamentalists, even posing as Jews.
In order to distort other peoples' words, to call people atheists, drunks, and mockers.
"I don't think there is a need to 'dialogue' with mockers and scoffers. The best we can do is pray for them." GA-boy
"You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit....Beth- I'm Jewish and have God in my life. Belief in God is what will help America stave off Islam. This belief is what makes us more aware of the menace of Muhammadanism. I like the fundamentalist preachers who shine a strong light on Muhammad's cult." by dennisw
If you're really Jewish pal, than I'm really the Pope!
You are just as bad as the Muslims in my opinion, why do you need to "bear false witness?"
The truth of the matter is that the Jewish/Christian culture made Western Civ possible, as well as saved it. This is not something to be ashamed of. Rather this is part of the life and history of Western Civ.
The history of Xtianity is nothing to be proud of, l could rip your dogma to shread but this is'nt the forum for it. pong is right in stating the hypocracy in useing the JC position to slander the other cult. islam is lame though.
The question is not whether murderers who purport to be Christians, Buddhists, etc. are "real Christians," "real Buddhists," etc. That is not for us to judge.
Do Christians say that Christianity requires them to murder to be a good Christian? No.
Do Buddhists say that Buddhism requires them to murder to be good Buddhists? No.
The same goes for all the major religions, except Islam.
Countless knowledgeable, Arabic speaking Muslim holy men assure us that they are required by Islam to commit murder against Christians, Jews and others. Not only allowed, but required. And their scriptures back them up. That's the difference.
Archimedes: "We've been through these debates many times on this site. It would be useful if JW/DW would post a brief summary of the usual arguments and counterarguments so that we can get past this."
Archimedes - I hereby appoint you "Keeper of the Usual Arguments and Counterarguments." Long may you (and your computer files) live!
you are right to post your thoughts, bigcatgirl
I did not mean to offend,
This thread has left me a little defensive, I have been arguing with "well-intentioned" phonies, who did not understand that I was on their side (not your posts)
As for this "...It cannot be denied that the Abrahamic religions have a political component.." would it not be appropriate to deny and to refute Mohammed's claim that his "religion" (which is a totalitarian ideology more than anything else) is not in any way related to Abraham?
The only 'proof' there is, is Mohammed's claim according to the Koran, and that doesn't make it so.
It becomes even more preposterous when Mohammedans claim they would "respect Moses & Jesus" since they were all "Muslim prophets".
This falsehood must be exposed for the pompous BS it is...
Yohannbiimu, truth hurts. Are you aware of what the xtian church did to Galilio? It was'nt long ago they were burning witches too.
Posted by: stranger at February 18, 2006 09:46 PM
Give it a rest Stranger; that was then, this is now. Remember the Reformation? We're all aware of the ANCIENT atrocities committed by Christians acting on their own volition or under the direction of the Catholic Church, NOT the doctrine of Christianity. Today's Christians and today's Catholic Church DO NOT COMMIT ATROCITIES in the name of Christianity. The Bible does not condone or sanction such behavior and NEVER HAS. There is no equivalence between Islam and Christianity---NONE!!
I hope atheism provides all the serenity and happiness you could ever want. You are welcome to condemn religion to your heart's content but like it or not, the world you live in was profoundly influenced and shaped by the Judeo/Christian tradition, which gave us Western Civilization. Western Civilization is far superior to anything else, past or present, or would you prefer the enlightenment of Islam?
"Are you aware of what the xtian church did to Galilio?"
That was 1633, no? Which by my count is roughly 19 generations.
"It was'nt long ago they were burning witches too."
And from my brief google search, the witch-burning heyday also appears to have been about 400 years ago.
But 400 years is a long time in human history, non? I mean, would we even be having this conversation if Muslim atrocities were 400 years behind us? No, the sad fact is that thanks to the Muslims, we've all just been plunged back 400 years. Now we don't just get to read in history books about witches being burned by Christian fanatics, we get the live educational experience ourselves, only the fanatics are waving a new flag!
My fellow infidels – We’re all witches now! So to all you bored couch potatoes, fed up with the latest re-runs on TVland, you don’t even need to switch to the History Channel to get your dose of reality - it’s coming to you – live, and in the flesh!
Hmm… I can’t help but wonder though whether witches back in the day actually debated theology amongst themselves. SNL writers - there’s some ripe material for you to tap into. Get to work!
OK Foehammer, l'll refrain from comparing religions, fighting fire with fire is one thing but, might l add that fighting BS with BS is BS.
Thanks for putting it so straight, Stranger.
I do not care about anybody believing in god, whatever name they call it. I live in a country with more casualties caused by Muslims since 9/11 with exception of places like Iraq and Afghanistan and it is not a Christian or a Jewish one. I can see how much hatred Muslims have towards Buddhists and at the same time I can also see Christian missionaries trying to save those Buddhists not from Islam but from “an eternal condemnation” because “there is no salvation but through Christ”.
Apparently it is more important for them “to save poor Buddhists” then to give support to Christians in Indonesia, Malaysia and the Middle East.
Christian influence in US is could be used to help Christians in those places, but almost nothing is done.
We have to be together in fighting Islam. You can believe in BS (thanks again, Stranger) but don’t try to convince us. Most people in the world are not Christians or Jews.
Late president Ronald Reagan call Communism – an evil ideology. President Bush understands that to call Islam – an evil ideology is a difficult one. You get away with Allah – Jesus will follow.
Susanp - This is a war between lslam and civilization, not xtians and muslims...We cannot pull rank when it comes to religion otherwise we slump to the level of the muslims because all we're doing then is creating a three man war which will defeat our purpose giving lslam that leg up. "They" throw their book at us and l see it as futile Xtians trying to bash them with the bible.
Although Islam is often called "Abrahamic," I have to agree with what you say that this name is misleading. Mohammad (or whoever authored the Koran) did plagiarize all kinds of material from the Jews (e.g., presenting rabbis' personal commentary as words of Allah), but it was mixed in with his own ideas, and altered to fit his own agenda. And as I suggested, Mohammad seems to have made up revelations ad hoc to justify whatever immoral or criminal activity he was involved in at the time.
"It becomes even more preposterous when Mohammedans claim they would "respect Moses & Jesus" since they were all "Muslim prophets"."
Yes, though many ordinary Muslims who've not studied the Koran with a critical eye may sincerely believe this. But the smooth-talking Muslim apologists and spokesmen love to play up the connections between Islam and "the People of the Book." But what the Koran says about the earlier prophets having bungled, and the Jews and Christians having "corrupted the scriptures," is obviously offensive to Christians and Jews, and the claim that Jesus was a mere prophet (not son of God) who only appeared to have died on the cross, is obviously offensive to Christians. This is on top of all the other insults and condemnations of Christians and Jews, who are called disbelievers who must be converted, subjugated, or killed.
These religions are just not compatible. Islam needs a modern, radical reformation. Once criticism and apostacy are permitted, Islam as we know it will be finished. The Islamists are taking this cartoon business very seriously because they know that it is a real threat--criticism and lampoon, unconstrained, would destroy it.
Sir Archimedes: "Once criticism and apostacy are permitted, Islam as we know it will be finished. The Islamists are taking this cartoon business very seriously because they know that it is a real threat--criticism and lampoon, unconstrained, would destroy it."
Hear! Hear! (and the "Sir" is in deference to your well-earned title of "Keeper of the Usual Arguments and Counterarguments"):-)
No where in the Bible does God instruct me to allow others to kill my family, destroy my religion or destroy my country, but to protect all three from evil deeds and the evil ones that do these deeds.
Passage Luke 22:36:
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Instructions from Jesus to the Disciples.
Jeremiah 24:10 (Whole Chapter)
I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their fathers.' "
Jeremiah 46:10 (Whole Chapter)
But that day belongs to the LORD, the Lord Almighty— a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by the River Euphrates
Matthew 10:34 (Whole Chapter)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Revelations 7:14
And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
The war with Islam is inevtiable and it is fastly approaching.
Multitutes will come out of the great tribulation, war with Islam, that fight for God our religions and countries. God will see us through and be with us in the fight against this evil.
Oh look, another rabid Xtian fundy sinking to the pathetic depths of their muslims cousins, thankfully Xtianity has developed somewhat but there's always the odd zealot with its neurotic view of itself in the world.. Freedom. The only choice at any cost.. Da texan, your mind has been turned into an unfathomable and imperishable ocean of deception..
Stranger, you have said: Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? yes. religion is bullshit.. billions of self proposed 'rational human beings' still choose to adhere to primitive faiths that are so foul, corrupt and often perverse that it makes me sick..."
It is your right to exercise free speech - no doubt about it, but the fragment you quoted is a parable told by Jesus and NOT His commandment.
Are you being manipulative or do you not know the meaning of a double quote in a text?
Da texan, your mind has been turned into an unfathomable and imperishable ocean of deception..
Posted by: stranger
It is enlightening to see all of the agnostics and atheists upset with Christianity, but your venom that is so transparent is aimed at the wrong target.
America is the nation it is because of the Christians that formed it and have led it for over 200 years. This has allowed all Americans to believe or not believe as you wish and to utter such utter stupidity that you posted.
I find it astonishing that with the threat of complete annihilation of America by Islam, that there are those like you that would rather condemn Christians instead of joining together to take the war to Islam.
I haven’t condemned you, but you condemn Christians because we believe.
When you demean Christians you just show your total ignorance of American history and your beliefs in the leftist liberal dogma. Most leftist liberals that I have meet fear that there is a God and they will be judged by God and found to be lacking and condemned to the final death of their soul. The Bible says "Judge not least you be judged by the standards you set." I will be judged by the standards that I have set and am willing to so be judged. Are you ready to be judged for you will be judged by God regardless of what you believe or think.
We post and argue because we have the right and freedom to so espouse our views. We do not have to agree because of the war fought and won by American Christians, Jews, agnostics and even atheists.
Islam has no such beliefs in freedom of individuals. Islam intends on defeating America and eradicating Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists and all infidels.
Choose you war. War with Islam is inevitable. Islam is attacking Christianity and Christians across America will defend our beliefs and America. We will not go silently into the dark.
Thanks for standing up to the hypocrite, Stranger. His sneering contempt is showing. He's probably just another jihadi sent to divide and conquer, play the Christians against the Jews and stir up hatred and confusion. Kudos to you for not buying into his BS.
I especially like his offering God's blessing to Pong. What a hypocrite. And please tell me why the atheists on this site think they are so noble? To quote a famous pop star, "What have you done for me lately?"
Beav, I stopped reading the exchanges among you, Gary and Beth halfway through. I read your initial comment and found it ironic. Please don't get angry at someone misunderstanding you. Christians are busy these days defending themselves (often when the subject of Islam is brought up it is Christianity that ends up in need of defense) and perhaps we have lost a little our perspective.
The Texan,
Religion has made a virtue of cruelty. Bloody sacrifices of human beings to appease the gods fill the pages of history. This is my beef and when l see people "counter" the BS dogma of lslam with Xtian BS l perceive the demise of our freedom at the hands of these jihadis. Simple logic will destroy lslam not this hypocritical ring around the rosy crap.
polish infideless,
Jesus condoned and advocated murder: Luke 19:27.. that is my point on this verse and l did'nt say it was a command at all. Someone asked for one negative verse and they got it. Here have some more..
1 John 5:19. Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” ..sounds like something a muslim would say, just replace Paul for Mohummad.. Hebrews 3:12 Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (mmmm that's nice) everyone will have to worship Jesus...whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10.... Now replace Mohummad for Jesus in the Phil 2:10 verse and what have you got? Granted, compare lslam with Xtianity and lslam comes out far far worse but to throw Xtian script at muslims only makes their resolve even stronger and alienates the rest of us.
was Josephus Flavius there at the time of the elleged appearance of Jesus? ..all accounts of Jesus come from hearsay writings and no contemporary evidence exists.
Isabellathecrusader
The god l believe in is the one with-in not the grand poo pa in the sky you're terrorfied of.
Thanks Stranger, for your comment about the god with-in you. Whatever that might be, which doesn't sound like much since you didn't bother to capitalize the "g", ought to give all of us here a warm fuzzy when it comes to spiritual protection from the Satanic forces of Islam.
And since you assume that I'm terrified of my God, (wrong again!) let's make a little assumption about you based on your utterings. At first I thought you were simply an embittered former Christian, who had some bad thing happen to him and now he blames God for all his problems. But now I am more persuaded that you have never met the true God, for it is obvious by your vitriolic spew that you speak of what you know not. Your comment that, "Religion makes a virtue of cruelty," suggests that you are a recovering Muslim who was so abused by your demonic "god" that any reference to the True God would be repugnant to you. Come towards the light, brother. I will pray that your eyes will be opened. I even forgive you for deliberately insulting Christians by replacing Our Lord's name with an "X". But there is hope for you, because in this case, "X" marks the spot.
Isabellathecrusader
What difference does a capital "g" make? Satan? Com'on, it is common for Xtians to speak in languages which others identify as fantasy, in that the experiences Xtians describe are understood to be unreal and thus the product of a deluded mind. You've met the true god? Get a grip! Your feeble attempt to insult me with the "assumption" that l'm a recovering muslim is testament to your own state of mind.
Gotcha, didn't I. Otherwise you wouldn't be foaming at the mouth.
If that "god" within you works for you, I hope you'll be very happy together. But I doubt it...you wouldn't be so bitter, condescending and covertly hostile if it did.
BTW, I love your comments referencing fantasy and a deluded mind. What kind of deluded mind makes up some word that looks like a label for Inter-galactic space creatures to describe a group of people who have been going strong for 2000 years? Sorry, but your contempt is showing. If you are trying to use logic to show that you are a wiser and more intelligent being and that you have the answers to combat the very real threat of Islam, you've failed miserably. The "god" within you sounds more like a spoiled, selfish brat than a being that has any power to deal with what is coming our way.
Don't worry though; while you are off imitating Muslims we'll watch your back for you. It's a Christian thing.
"Responsible editors must be punished."
Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.
Just remember keeds...only responsible people get to suffer the wrath of Allah. So if you want to be like us, the IRRESPONSIBLE, FANATICAL, WORK-AVERSE UMMAH, and avoid the wrath of Allah, we suggest you, uh, umm, Oh FARG! Death to you ALL!
Nah, they got it wrong. Responsible Editors must be "Published" There, that's better, I fixed it for ya Muslims.
These Muslim fanatics in New York should go back home to the stone age if they can't understand freedom. I hope the multiculturalists are getting a dose of reality from this and by seeing the non-Muslim world being terrorized by Muslims.
These Muslim fanatics in New York should go back home to the stone age if they can't understand freedom. I hope the multiculturalists are getting a dose of reality from this and by seeing the non-Muslim world being terrorized by Muslims.
So it begins in the USA.I was wondering when it would make its way here.Be careful how far you take it moslems...you may just regret it!!
Pack your bags, muslims. Your holiday in the USA is coming to an end.
Now there's a bunch of happy chappies...Dour,scowling males. Guess that 'bums up' 5 times a day, regulated farts[regulated everything],music forbidden,pork & alcohol forbidden, Infidel books forbidden, all that is left to look forward to is killing Infidels and shagging 72 Virgins in Allah's Brothel in the sky. Reminds me of that terrible old murdering hypocrite [apart from Mohammed] Ayatollah Khomeini-'"THERE IS NO JOY IN ISLAM." No humour either obviously. The faces of these boyos say it
all-"without the thrill of a stoning or beheading, the diversion of watching amputations,
what can we possibly find to do in New York except to go on another Protest March..."
Those responsible for this poutrage should be hanging!
Basically these little bullies who think they can frighten people into submission can go to hell.......just needed to say that ...made me feel better as I can't say it to their faces.
Just give me a face to say it to.......!!!!
PHOTO- "The World is Divided into Two Camps" (same Muslim rally)http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesofperfection/101024448/in/set-72057594066070858/
It seems many of us (those against Islam) are missing the point.
Many criticize Islam from religious positions (usually quoting from the bible) and in terms which levels them with Muslims.
It seems that the only problem with Muslims’ reaction to cartoons is not the reaction itself, but the way such reaction manifests. In essence it is like “we do not like when you mock Jesus, but as civilized people we do not react violently. Such violent reaction is a direct result of teachings of Islam as Judaism and Christianity are totally against it.”
I have written before that criticism of Islam from a religious position comes to a silly argument, whose religion is better.
We are laughing at the promise of perpetual virgins to a Muslim martyr and they are laughing at perpetual virginity of Mary. We criticize the Koran for violence and quote the bible as a recipe for peace (which it is not and they know it). The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite.
Any religion is an ideology and as such, no religion can escape to be a political movement. Even those of us, who do not believe a word of the Koran or the bible, still submit to a PC line that the religious beliefs deserve our respect as long as those beliefs do not promote hatred. A very naïve position at best.
I have respect for knowledge, culture and reason. I refuse to respect superstitious beliefs, them being Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other.
No doubt, we are far more civilized then the Muslims and the reason for it is not our Judeo-Christian background, but because most of us do not allow that background to influence our lives. We had been civilized before Judaism and Christianity were born and our civilization started to flourish again only when a few but the best of us had understood that.
I am getting old and my tolerance is wearing thin.
I am pissed at the attitudes of these squirrels. They have every right to express their opinions in this country BUT not to threaten death to others who may express opinions they do not agree with. No New Yorker's were stopping them from expressing their opinions but if they make the mistake of following through with any of the threats in this country, there will be a violent backlash. Being upset about cartoons of a PERSON who happened to have the great character of someone who likes having sex with a 9 year old seems stupid. I will attempt to buy a Qu'ran or two, flammable liquid, and a BIC lighter to have available in case these fine citizens come to my neigborhood for a demonstration and then I will be able to express my opinions about this farce.. Radical Imams are currently the scourge of the earth IMO.. My Anger grows more each day with these actions.
KNOW YOUR MUZZIES :What this jihad shit comes down to is an attack on private citizens by islamic death squads.
Private citizens are the softer targets.
Private citizens carry weight with their politicians and can be terrorised (as the citizens of Spain were) into removing those politicians from office who obstruct the goals of jihad. (In America, terrorists rely on liberals to pave the way for them and have the cooperation of the leftist media, the dems, and various "civil rights" groups whose aim is to disable the ability of law enforcement.)
As a private citizen you need to be aware of Death Squads. The threat of kidnap, the threat of sudden assault, and of the threat of disruption of public utilities and the contamination of food and water sources.
These are the basic tools of jihad....once liberalism has allowed them to infest and tied the hands of law enforcement.
You should be armed. You should have supplies to hold you in good stead against terrorist disruptions.
(nothing outlandish....but the same foresight that is applied to severe storm preparation....water, food, vitamins, prescription medicines, OTC meds,lights, generators, fuel, personal hygene supplies....etc)
And you should be aware of where your local muzzies congregate, of who they are, and of which jobs and positions they hold in your community.
You can not negotiate with these fanatics.
You can not pacify them. You can not ignore them and thereby cause them to go away.
But you can fight them, and you can kill the sons of bitches.
It is happening in Iraq and in Afghanistan .....more than the leftist media wants you to know. Terrorists are suffering horrific losses at a kill ratio of 47 of them to every innocent person they murder.
Citizens have had enough.
And in Iraq, out of the 5 major territories....the terrorists operate only in continually shrinking sectors of two remote areas. Iraq intends to close it's borders off from terrorist supporting neighbors.
It can be done. And it is a positive step.
A must read: it's hilarious, IBRAHIM HOOPER IS BOXED, LET'S SEE IF HE'LL ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE:
http://congressdebatekoran.org/
IBRAHIM HOOPER (CAIR) …YOU MAKE US LAUGH… ARE YOU IN THE CARTOON BUSINESS TOO…
Filed under: Ebn Masr - CDK
I always said “if islam was not evil, it would’ve been the funniest burlesque play in town, not only for Saturday nite live …but every day and nite”. You would still be dead from islam, but dying of laughter. You should see it to believe it.
This time it was Ibrahim Hooper, one of CAIR’s “bosses” stand up comedy on the show of “Scarborough country” aired on MSNBC http://www.cairfl.org/video/060202_msnbc_hooper_cartoon.wmv
Host: “Isn’t there some truth in the political cartoon that shows Mohamed with a bomb device?”
Hooper (CAIR): “You can make political statements. You can criticize. You can do all of these things. But the cartoons themselves were designed as intentional insults to hurt people feelings, to provoke. That’s the difference in this case… But let me tell you how the prophet responded to attacks on himself: There was a lady who uses to throw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day she didn’t do it, the prophet went to inquire about her health because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to islam. So that’s how you respond to people who attack you with forgiveness and with kindness”.
Now I ask the audience to please don’t laugh yet before I tell you my story...(www.congressdebatekoran.org for the full article)
The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite. posted by pong
pong? unless you can present just one New Testament Scripture that preaches violence between humans - you are the hypocrite - and will rmain so - until you can present the New Testament Scriptures that preach violence. [you can't. There aren't any]
But the Koran - on the other hand - contains hundreds of vicious statements - that preach violence between humans. The Muslims are taught to behead, sever hands and feet, crucify, rape, lie and steal - to all non-Muslims.
Here is the 'Ark' that you, among many, have missed:
Saying you are a Christian - and actually being one - are two completely different acts. If you say you are a Christian - but carry out voilent acts - then you're not a Christian - no matter how much you claim to be.
Why? - Because there are no Holy Christian Scriptures to support violent actions.
on the other hand...
Saying you are a Muslim - and actually being one - are two completely diferent acts.
If you say you are a Muslim - and yet, can not bring yourself to kill an infidel - then your not a Muslim - no matter how much you claim to be.
Why? because the Koran commands it!
Until you, pong, - can present New Testament Scriptures that promote violence?
You will remain a hypocrite
It is people like you - who stand in the way of those who are trying to take down that which has produced a bunch of murderers. Those who proudly hail those signs in those protests - are murderers. Plain and simple.
Interesting that Islamic Thinkers site -
Here is a page where the London Radical placards are supported -
______
http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=505&Itemid=26
_____________
I think that the leaders of the western world should respect that when it comes to Islam the Pandora’s Box has been opened.
What other group can get up and threaten to kill members of the general public, if they speak about them. The mafia doesn't even have that much power.
We are probably going to have to vote in people who are going to listen.
Stop bringing these people in willy - f*in - nilly.
"Editors must be punished"
It's very interesting how they use "must" and "punished". "Must" as in there can be no mercy for the offence of publishing, and "punished" as if the Western world is so stupid to believe that "punishment" is something you actually survive in the Islamic world.
OK, Beth. Your religion is better, then Islam.
I wish you luck in explaining it to a Muslim.
OK, Beth. Your religion is better, then Islam. Posted by: pong
I didn't write the New testament.
pong - are you aware of the fact that the Bible gave a most amazing prophecy about Palestine? for end time?
The Koran forgot to mention Palestine.
Now, I understand perfectly - how the significance of that fact can escape the men of this world.
But, in no way - does it escape the minds of those who are willing to die for a lie.
It's very interesting how they use "must" and "punished". " Posted by: beav
Could not agree more
They can take their self-appointed authority - and stick it where the sun doesn't shine
A little backbone from the National Post
"Muslims will be expelled from Europe if they do not assimilate.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=34cbfbb7-eb95-4e77-a155-3904297e45de"
Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? yes. religion is bullshit.. billions of self proposed 'rational human beings' still choose to adhere to primitive faiths that are so foul, corrupt and often perverse that it makes me sick...
Two things come to mind: 1) don't these jerks have a job and 2) I need to get Fido on a leash, go down to the UN and pass out some McRibs. I'm sure protesting makes you hungry.
First thing that comes to mind when looking at the picture is "DAMN they're ugly."
This cartoon thing is going to end up cutting islams throat and it's all their fault. They thought they knew how to handle infidels... they should have tried herding cats first.
Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? Posted by: stranger
YEPPERS! He did!
Is that all ya got stranger? Come on - can't you do better than that????????
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels [NOT HUMANS] shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
Is that all ya got stranger?
How pitiful
How sad!!!
Why?
Cause I can give you whole whole bunch of commands from the Koran that preach - beheadings, rape, cucifixions, lies and theft.
What part of this Understanding are you not getting stranger?
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Did ya read that one - stranger?
The Koran produces Murderers!!!!!!!
That is a fact that no man can deny.
The New Testament Condemns each and every single one of them - which NO man - can deny!
How Right the Lord was - in saying - that His Word has the power in shutting the mouths of kings
You either love a Good thing - or you don't.
The grave has the power over you - if you let it be that way.
Beth...... *giggles* Nice smack down. Some of my fellow Atheists can be real pains.
Stranger, you forgot to mention Luke 9:11, which is the Beginning of the Parable:
'And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.'
Jesus is telling a Story. This is NOT a commandment.
If you are going to lie about what Jesus said, at least find something that can't be easily verified.
Here's the entire story:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Luk/Luk019.html
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
"There was a lady who uses to throw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day she didn’t do it, the prophet went to inquire about her health because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to islam. So that’s how you respond to people who attack you with forgiveness and with kindness”. posted by qalambo
I find it very ironic that examples of Christian militancy (in the form of a parable or not) is locked away in the same distant past as the examples of Muslim charity.
Christian militancy Posted by: beav
And the Christian Scriptures are? to support that theory?
Give them - please
read my post to understand my position
don't "knee-jerk"
Beav~ pray tell, how does a parable which would plainly appear to relate to the Second Coming and final judgement, have anything to do with 'Christian militancy'?
Can you provide us examples of people who quoted this verse in support of their actions?
Meanwhile, the story of the lady (or the Jew, or the Jewish Lady) appears to be apocrypha. Used to justify an illusion of 'peace.'
The 'knee-jerk' is not giving the Holy New Testament Scripures that preach 'militancy'
Until then - the case rests with that which Preaches True Peace between ALL men.
To Pong--
You are wrong for one simple reason. While it is true that Chrisitanity and Judaism were once midevil religions which were very violent- JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY HAVE UNDERGONE REFORMATIONS. Period.
Martin Luther. Reformed judaism. But, if you do some research, it is easy to see that there has not been an equivalent reformation in the islamic faith. You would expect that one day, with the moslems having contact with reformed western culture, they would have a reformation in their faith. But, it seems like the moslems are actually going BACKWARDS. I don't know why this is, but until they do have a reformation in their dastardly faith, the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to my intelligence.
incidenetally, a few years ago in New York, there was a play written by a (gay)Tony-award winner in which Jesus was carrying on a homosexal affair with Judas. While Christians were offended, the playwrite DID NOT EVER fear for his life. No one called for his beheading. And the play even did reasonable well (damned liberal New yorkers)... The point is Christians ain't like the moslems, and how dare you say they are.
JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY HAVE UNDERGONE REFORMATIONS. Posted by: templar
\
Not True - templar
The Dead Sea Scrolls Justify the Old Testament Scriptures [of which that old prophecy about Palestine is included]
and the New Testament is made up of letters from the apostles of Chist - which were carefully preserved!
To s changes were made for the Bible - to suit the needs of men - is a lie.
If not - then prove it.
You people, Gary and Beth, have gone way off the beam. I was not referencing anything but posters on this board, READ MY POST, and was showing that the material claiming "christian militancy AND muslim charity" come from the PAST and that this situation is very IRONIC compared to what we are seeing today. Don't put words in my mouth OR thump your bible at me.
when are the american people going to PROTEST about Islam? why is no-one organising this? Why isnt it on the news?
You people, Gary and Beth, have gone way off the beam. Posted by: beav
Is cutting someone's head off - 'way off the beam'
Because - like it or not - that's the power of the Koran
and was showing that the material claiming "christian militancy AND muslim charity"
Don't flip out Beav
All we ask - is that you present the New testament Scriptures to support your claim
when are the american people going to PROTEST about Islam? why is no-one organising this? Why isnt it on the news?
Posted by: chu - doc
The greatest uestion that can be asked by any True American!
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong.
I've read the Bible from end to end. I was Fascinated by religious studies so much, in grade school, that I often forgot I had a music lesson (unfortunately), mid-way thru that class.
And yet I have never seen verses like that as a call to militancy.
Anyway I don't thump the Bible. My mother hit me with one once, when I was a kid, and belive me the Word of God does have an impact.
templar?
I am your friend
God Bless you - For ever and ever
Anyway I don't thump the Bible. My mother hit me with one once, when I was a kid, and belive me the Word of God does have an impact.
Posted by: Gary
ROFL!!!!!
that's cute
Beth
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong. Posted by: Gary
Nope - no they are not Gary
Why?
Because the Commands given by God differ for the angels and humans....
Take a look at these:
Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. {{{He speaks to BOTH the visible - AND the invisible
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
It is the angels - not humans - who will carry out the act of totally destroying the wicked.
The Koran teaches the Contrary!
The Koran produces Murderers.
Stranger~ I will grant that we may be misreading you. However I cannot see how that phrase is a call for Christian militancy, by Jesus. Anyone who used it, at any time in the past, had it Wrong, and if anyone is using it tody, they are Wrong. Posted by: Gary
Nope - no they are not Gary
Why?
Because the Commands given by God differ for the angels and humans....
Take a look at these:
Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. {{{He speaks to BOTH the visible - AND the invisible
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
It is the angels - not humans - who will carry out the act of totally destroying the wicked.
The Koran teaches the Contrary!
The Koran produces Murderers.
I hope the FBI keeps the photos handy and maybe, just maybe they may recognize a few of them.
Do any New Yorkers recognize them?? Boycott their businesses.
They're stepping on our toes.
I hope the FBI keeps the photos handy and maybe, just maybe they may recognize a few of them. Posted by: freewoman
Hope so!
Those protestors are violating the U.S. Constitution.....because they are calling for the murder of those who don't belive as they do.
And the U.S. Constitution has the Authority!
No?
Beth-
I am not a religious scholar. However, their is reformed christianity and reformed judaism. Although, i think the teachings of Christ don't need reformation - the ORTHODOX HIERARCHIES of Judaism and Christianity have been reformed by more secular forces - remember, Popes used to sell passes for heaven to thier cronies.
The basic crux of what I am saying is that islam is a young religion, and about 500 years behind christianity. but, i do see them even moving farther BACKWARD, and that is some scary s#$%.
An imam in Pakistan has offered a reward to any Muslim who kills the Danish cartoonist (I don't think the dumbass knows there's more than one).
I think it's high time we turned the tables and offered a reward to anyone who bumps off these imams who issue these fatwas. Let's see how brave they are when the boot's on the other foot.
Well, there you go, Beth, they should have been arrested.
It's so ironic. They want to live in our free country and yet want to censor free speech.
Send them home!!!
"All we ask - is that you present the New testament Scriptures to support your claim"
Again you miss the point and try to put words in my mouth. So that you understand:
The "claim" you think you can force me to accept, is in fact, a lift from strangers post (see above).
If you know this verse
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
This is an example of militancy even if it is a parable whose point is to advise against violence.
I called it "christian militancy" because it came from the bible. Before you try to split hairs with me:
The point was: what is the real context of this verse?
The real point for me, was; why do we have to look into the past for examples of Muslim charity?
It is becuase they do not exist in practice now.
Why do we need to look into the past for examples of christian militancy?
It is because they do not exist in practice today.
It is not my opinion that christian militancy is prescribed, nor was it ever my claim, stop saying that it is.
But what IS my opinion, is that I have been wasting too much time conversing with an idiot.
Gary -
Beth said, "pong? unless you can present just ONE New Testament Scripture that preaches violence between humans - you are the hypocrite - and will remain so"...The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." l consider moderate muslims christians - Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19. Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12 Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. xtians have alot in common with muslims.. (shock horror) False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9.. everyone will have to worship jesus...whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10. oh stop it, l'm getting a stitch.
"All we ask - is that you present the New testament Scriptures to support your claim"
Again you miss the point and try to put words in my mouth. So that you understand:
The "claim" you think you can force me to accept, is in fact, a lift from strangers post (see above).
If you know this verse
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) posted by stranger
This is an example of militancy even if it is a parable whose point is to advise against violence.
I called it "christian militancy" because it came from the bible. Before you try to split hairs with me:
The point was: what is the real context of this verse?
The real point for me, was; why do we have to look into the past for examples of Muslim charity?
It is becuase they do not exist in practice now.
Why do we need to look into the past for examples of christian militancy?
It is because they do not exist in practice today.
It is not my opinion that christian militancy is prescribed, nor was it ever my claim, stop saying that it is.
And while your at it, don't confuse me with Stranger
footnote - not only does the Islamic faith fit the criteria of a devastating plague in its purest form, it represents an affront to the dignity of man and a disgrace to the intelligence of its brain dead believers who exert a medieval mentality worthy of a shallow grave...
Beth-
I am not a religious scholar. Posted by: templar
Neither am I Templar. I'm about as dumb as they get! Is there a harder way? - show it to me [lols - but true]
remember, Popes used to sell passes for heaven to thier cronies
and as you remember that one Templar - remember this also:
Mat 23:9 Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
The word 'Pope' means 'papa' in Itialian.
The basic crux of what I am saying is that islam is a young religion, and about 500 years behind christianity. but, i do see them even moving farther BACKWARD, and that is some scary s#$%.
Well surprise surprise! Someone has finally noticed!
The Koran writings went out immediately to all those who were forced under its power.
But {and that is a BIG BUT!} not so with the New testament. The New Testament was spread by the new printing press to the people - approx 1000 years AFTER the Koran.
So there's another 'theory' - easily flushed down the commode
Here is my occasional reminder that I always keep in my favorites.
It has to do with an incident that also occurred in New York City a few years ago.
http://www.company71.org/wtc.htm
fireangel
"This cartoon thing is going to end up cutting islams throat and it's all their fault. They thought they knew how to handle infidels... they should have tried herding cats first."
It was the outgoing German leader who said to the Muslims,
something like:-
For those who want death,
maybe it is their own death they will get.
I definitely think that Islam is going to loose its footing ~ trying to take over Europe.
It is just an outright greedy gesture.
Almost every Muslim in Europe is here - for either economic reasons or becasue of violence in their home countries. [Typical of the state of the Islamic world today.]
OK - they were given refuge.
But rather than be thankful ~ its you are going to follow the rules of our religion or else?
_____
If an Islamic country is what they want ~ we can show them any one ~ of their choosing. All Islamic countries are just an airplane ride away.
We want Peace too.
so, the new testament is younger than the koran? is that true? all this time ive thought islam was the youngest of the big three.
so, the new testament is younger than the koran? is that true?
No Templar - it's not younger.
But - it was not given to the poeple for approx 1000 years after the Koran was given.
The so-called self-proclaiming 'Christian' leaders of that time would not allow it to be released to the people. But King James prevailed - obviously.
Look at what the Islamic lands have produced: Immigrants galore - and a time of trouble that has never been seen by this world before.
The Lord Jesus - is the ONLY Lord that is mentioned the U.S. Constitution [Aticle VII] No other country has that honor.
Is America the most powerful country on earth?
And was she made the most powerful country on earth because of Jesus - or because of men?
Before anyone spouts their answer - know this:
The New Testament is the most Powerful and sure Foundation. {{{No man has that same power - because no man can claim he is God. {This fact - the 'atheists' do not understand.....
A house divided - is a house that will surely fall
and just look at what it will fall to!
the foundation that has united the beheaders and the rapists.
The New Testament is also a Foundation - in which to Unite those who want Peace
It also has the power to breed prosperity - and America is its proof.
In 1915, after a German U-boat (number "20", to be exact) sank the passenger liner the Lusitania, killing almost 200 Americans onboard -including freethinking author Elbert Hubbard and classical musician Enrique Granados, sadly- the U.S. was deciding whether to fight Germany over this provocation.
The Germany ambassador in Washinton was trying to throw some weight around in the debate so he told his American counterpart to "Remember, there are 500,000 German army reservists living in American."
In reply, his American counterpart said what we should be saying to all of these hysterical, anti-freedom cultists:
"And remember, we have 500,001 lamp posts in America."
The battle is between:
-Let the intolerant of our freedoms use these liberties to destroy freedom itself, and meekly allow their violent cult take over the world,
Or say:
It stops here. Now. We know what you want. And it will not be permitted.
Then forehoses to spray thewm off the curb and into paddywagons as seditionists for a cult that seeks the violent overthrow of the country.
Or are we not to believe what they say?
I goddamned believe them.
So I oppose them.
And would imprison them- in self-defense.
And write operas about it, make up dances to mock it, and celebrate the liberty of humanity in every way they wish to crush.
Art, music, wine, thought.
Let the war be open.
Freedom or slavery?
I know where I stand.
Freely.
So here we go, once again. Instead of discussing what's going on in our own country, here goes Beth turning it into her own personal religious soapbox. Why is it so hard to put aside religiuos differences and stay focused on the real issue here - which, surprise surprise, is *not* the supremacy of Christianity over all other religions?
I never thought anyone would make me miss Naseem.
/snarky sarcasm
All this bickering over which Religion is best is a joke. When was the last time a Christian told you to go to church or we will cut off your head. Did I miss the story about the Christians that are raping women in the name of god? I do not believe what I am seeing in NY. Evidently they will not get it until a mushroom cloud is visible over their city. This country is breaking down into 3 camps,
A. The Muslims.
B. Those that are insane enough to believe that we can find a way to get along.
C.Everybody else.
When the s#*t hits the fan, those who are in group A and B are screwed. There will be no "Please let me in I had no idea that my views would get some of your friends killed. Too late they made their beds now let them sleep in them.
Liberty or Death is still the only answer.
the majority of the New was written 80 - 140 ad.. the quran 622 ad.. There's speculation Revelations is the oldest as it was stolen from the Egyptians as was the fairytale about jesus stolen from pagans, hell Horus of egypt was called the "christ" some 1800 yrs b4 the elledged appearance of jesus.
Templar:
I don't know why this is, but until they do have a reformation in their dastardly faith, the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to my intelligence.
If the idea that Islam is equal to Judaism or Christianity is an insult to your intelligence, why would you bring such an idea to our discussion? I could not find in my comment anything remotely close to your statement.
I did not state that Christians are like Moslems. As a matter of fact, I pointed to a difference between them and us (and it was not a compliment to them).
People are often arguing with their own statements instead of reading and understand what other people wrote.
So much for intelligence…
"The word 'Pope' means 'papa' in Italian". posted by beth
Wrong again beth, but don't let little details like accuracy slow you down.
by saying that pope means papa, you imply that papa is an english word, it is not
The Italian word "papa", means "pope" in english.
Go back to Manipulation 101 and tell Jerry Falwell that I haven't forgotten the money he owes me.
You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit. Part of the reason EUrope let Islam run rampant, allowed so much Muslim immigration, is that the EUropeans have much less belief in God than do Americans. Their atheism makes them oblivious to what a determined cult can do. They treat Islam as joke so their automobiles get torched (France) and embassies get burned to the ground They just don't get Islam. They don't get Jihad. They don't get Muslims immigrating to their nations and having 10 children supported by state welfare payments.
Beth- I'm Jewish and have God in my life. Belief in God is what will help America stave off Islam. This belief is what makes us more aware of the menace of Muhammadanism. I like the fundamentalist preachers who shine a strong light on Muhammad's cult
OK as A New yorker i have to speak out about this NY protest. First I would like to say that They could'nt have picked a better day to do this. This is a 3 day weekend and for the most part the city is empty as people leave by 3pm. The protest did'nt start until then. Second, WE GOTTA GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER!!! They have their "insular commuinty and mosques" as their organisational tool. They all can rally at a days notice. I did'nt know about this until 7pm EST on a blog (LGF). By the time i could've gotten there (it started at 3pm) with NYC traffic it wouldve been like 830 pm, and the rally would've been over. I would've been there with a suppost Danmark sign! I would'nt have cared if i was the only Dhimmi within a mile, I'm sick of this shit. But heres the problem, we gotta know about this shit before hand. We gotta keep an eye on the web sites that promote this BS so we know if they are gonna try any BS. Then either we meet at a designated place and time then from there go to the rally or just go there and try to find eachother and stick together. (just like they do) Dont worry white boys, there will be tons o' policia to protect your pastey ass! :D I know there are a few "loose associations" like protest warriors and what not, but mostly they are in other cities. I guess NYC is TOO liberal (and scared!) I'm thinkin we could use various sites like this to announce events BEFOREHAND so we show'em America not for the taking and we aint scared of those 5th column traitors!
You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit.
Posted by: dennisw
Don’t think for one second that because I am indignant at fundamentalist christians (with their own agenda) who would savage my posts and distort my opinions. That I do not understand the seriousness of the task at hand. As someone raised in a christian environment, I forgive, and ask forgiveness, we are all human.
but I am a practical person who must seek resolution to this problem in the “Here and Now”
Jesus will not save us from Islam and Allah will not deliver victory to Muslims. I do not accept the notion that this is a fight of the ephemeral world.
It is a clash of cultures on a world scale.
It is a fight we must win.
Most distressing for me is It is a fight in which our side has no champions as of yet.
Where is George Patton?
Where is Black-Jack Pershing?
Where is Douglas MacAurthur?
Where is Thomas Jackson?
this is what I think about
and I know full well they were all religious men
"Pack your bags, muslims. Your holiday in the USA is coming to an end."
-- one of the posters above.
Last night (Friday, February 17) on the Charlie Rose interview show, Donald Rumsfeld asserted emphatically that "It's only a small number of Muslim extremists who are the problem -- the vast majority of Muslims are moderate!"
No, when we have our leading neo-cons like Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld repeating such idiotic things over and over (let alone the rest of our media, education, leadership and millions of Americans), the Muslim holiday in the USA will enjoy a long stay.
Good sound advise Metamoros & good luck, just dont use religion to combat the muslim scum otherwise it will be sinking to their depraved level of fundamental BS. "my god is better than your god" In other words dont be a rabid fundy like Beth. Dennisw - You said, "Part of the reason Europe let Islam run rampant, allowed so much Muslim immigration, is that the Europeans have much less belief in God than do Americans". What a load of CRAP! Get yourself a world atlas, will ya!
Allow me to interject something here:
For all you critics of Christianity posting in this thread, just remember one very important thing -- like it or not you would not be a Westener without Judeo-Christian influences.
Now stop your ridiculous attempts at drawing equivalencies between Islam and Christianity. When Islam allows its own Martin Luther to live long enough to bring about a necessary Enlightment to its Dark Ages cult, then we can down to an interesting discussion on the topic of world religions.
But, as we all can recognize, the very idea that reform of Islam will ever come about by peaceful means is ridiculous. 'By the sword' is just about the only language that Muslims understand. God knows, they threaten us with them often enough, and sometimes quite literally.
The majority of Americans are not stupid. The msm and the pols can tell us that the sky is green over and over, but we know better. We really need men with the attitudes of "Old Hickory" Andrew Jackson or Willian Tecumseh Sherman. Patton will do of course.
I am so glad that they have finally started to show their stripes here in America! Nothing like waking up the masses. In Southern California we have demonstrations by the Radical Illegal Mexican groups who have no problem preaching their true intentions regarding the retaking of the Southern States in America. Take a look at the first three clips on this web page I have listed below and listen to the words coming out of their mouths.....plus take a look at the heads covered with the checkard scarves.....looks familiar?
http://www.kirkbytv.com/Video/
The Games have Begun........the camps are prepared!
OK Foehammer, l'll refrain from comparing religions, fighting fire with fire is one thing but, might l add that fighting BS with BS is BS.
To Mackie:
Great post. A beatutiful tribute to the men, women, and children slughtered by these cowards. Shame on all who have tried to blunt our war efforts.
To Beth & Gary:
I don't think there is a need to 'dialogue' with mockers and scoffers. The best we can do is pray for them.
The poster image above should encourage "Irresponsible Editors" now to publish the Mo Cartoons.
Gutenberg, where is thy sting!?
On the editorial cartoon page.
If the cowards'll print it.
This garbage-Lady-story that Hooper told to congress, wasn't that debunked recently on Ali Sina's FFI?
I tried to look it up but I couldn't find it. Apparently there is nothing in the Mohammedan scriptures to support it, but plenty of what Mo really did (chopping heads and killing a sleeping poetess among her children)
Wonder why Hoopy didn't tell that story to congress. Was he afraid they'd all be laughing their heads off?
pong said "No doubt, we are far more civilized then the Muslims and the reason for it is not our Judeo-Christian background, but because most of us do not allow that background to influence our lives."
Again, i disagree. As Mr Spencer points out in his most recent book, a great many scientific advancments can be attributed to our judeo-chritian culture, not in spite of it. Have you really read the words of Christ? They are arguably the most profound wisdom teachings ever encountered - right up there with Buddha- love your enemy, turn the other cheek, live an upright life... Martin Luther King was a Chrisitan whose ideals of nonviolence were taken from Christ. And, it has been suggetsed by many that one reason that Jews are so perennially successfull is that their religion demands thought, interpretation and constsant scrutiny- which of course has important parallels in law, medincine, science and art, to which jews have always contributed far beyond their small numbers.Your thesis seems to be - all religion is equally bad, but we are more secular than muslims. No, I disagree with this- we are successful BECAUSE of Judeo-Chrisitanity, not inspite of it.
pong, and others engaged in this debate,
We've been through these debates many times on this site. It would be useful if JW/DW would post a brief summary of the usual arguments and counterarguments so that we can get past this.
As someone who doesn't believe in any revealed religions, I nevertheless do not for one second believe that all religions are equal from a moral standpoint. We can look at
1. The substance of the doctrine itself.
2. What is preached and emphasized by religious leaders (clerics, imams, mullahs, sheikhs, etc.).
3. The history of the religion's policies as applied.
4. The present-day practices and attitudes of the religion's followers.
It has been established over and over again that Islam is morally worse on all these points and more. It is not merely morally worse, but it is a clear and present danger. Consider the fact that we (nonbelievers) can at least have discussions with Christians and Jews. We can criticize these religions freely without fear of ourselves, our families, or our countries being attacked. Indeed, Christians and Jews today can freely criticize their own religion. This is not the case with Islam, as we have seen over and over again.
I have some agreement, and some disagreement, with your post February 18, 2006 05:07 AM
Pong: “Even those of us, who do not believe a word of the Koran or the bible, still submit to a PC line that the religious beliefs deserve our respect as long as those beliefs do not promote hatred. A very naïve position at best.”
I agree. The idea that religions should be immune from criticism, a view championed by the Vatican and by all governments in the Anglosphere, is PC nonsense that must be demolished. However, in practice, it is really only Islam that is being sheltered from the usual criticism and lampoon. Islam is in the most need of criticism, obviously. But it is being sheltered on the basis of threat and violence, not just by PC prejudices. No legitimate reason has ever been offered as to why Islam should not be criticized or lampooned.
All the Abrahamic religions promote hatred of nonbelievers. However, the Koran, Hadith, and Sira are the worst. Re: promotion of hatred: The Koran alone contains 250+ verses condemning the non-Muslims to hell-fire, simply for being non-Muslims. The Koran states explicitly that Muslims must hate non-Muslims forever (60:4), unless the non-Muslims convert to Islam. Even non-Muslims who do good works are going to hell according to the Koran, but the Bible at least leaves room to argue that good works are more important than faith (the Bible contains some contradictory statements on this point, but the Koran is absolutely clear that good works of non-Muslims aren’t accepted by Allah; the non-Muslims are going to hell anyway).
The Islamic texts require the execution of critics and mockers of the religion, a rule that is still followed by Muslims. The Islamic texts require the execution of apostates and hypocrites.
Pong:“I have written before that criticism of Islam from a religious position comes to a silly argument, whose religion is better.”
Is it silly to argue that Buddhism and Taoism are better than Islam?!
If you’ve read the Bible and the Islamic texts with a critical eye and with certain key issues in mind, some important differences emerge. Whereas the Old Testament contains numerous terrible passages of violence and atrocity, from the standpoint of modern-day Christians and Jews, these passages are descriptive rather than prescriptive. This doesn't excuse it. But the violent passages of the Koran are more open-ended and tend to be more prescriptive—i.e., prescribing violent actions that must be carried out as a religious duty—than descriptive. The Koran authorizes the Islamic mission to all mankind, the whole world, until the Last Day. This mission is to make all the world Islamic, to make all people Muslims, and any non-Muslims left must live under Islamic law in a subjugated condition. The use of force, if necessary, in accomplishing this goal is not only approved, but glorified in many bellicose verses. All disbelievers, in the whole world, must be given the option to convert to Islam, or else live as subjugated humiliated slaves or dhimmis, or else be put to death. Neither Christianity nor Judaism has this combined violent-imperialistic policy. The Old Testament is violent but not imperialistic. The New Testament offers a mision to the whole world but does not authorize believers to use violence in this mission. Fighting purely for the sake of making Islam superior to the others and destroying disbelief is prescribed and glorified in the Koran, Hadith, and Sira. This makes Islam inherently much more dangerous than Judaism or Christianity.
Aside from all that, consider the overall message or impression one gets from reading the religious text. Read the New Testament, and read the Koran. My overall impression is that despite some significant flaws, the NT is a book whose overall message is compassion and fairness to all people. The Koran is overwhelmingly a book of hate which tells believers to be forgiving amongst themselves but to act harshly against the non-Muslims, to oppose non-Muslims socially, politically, and militarily.
Pong:“The J-C period in our history is worse then any in The Muslim’s history and anybody who criticizes Islam from a J-C position is a hypocrite.”
This is flat wrong. In a single stretch of 250 years of history, Muslim imperialists in India had slaughtered approximately 70 million Hindus, simply on the grounds that they were non-Muslims (“idolaters”). On total number of deaths due to pursuit of an ideology, adherence to the core tenets of Islam is the chief cause of death of more innocent people than any other ideology in the history of humankind.
Besides tallying up numbers killed, one must look at the reasons why people were killed. Islamic imperialism involved the killing of people simply on the grounds that they were non-Muslims and/or had refused to convert to Islam. Muslims spread outward, invading surrounding countries and slaughtering and raping in full accordance with the Koran, all for the ostensive purpose of making Allah's religion supreme.
You refer to the “J-C” period. Do you mean Judeo-Christian, of do you mean post Jesus Christ (i.e., the A.D. period?). In any case, it’s a moot point. Let us ask what is Judeo-Christian about the period? This goes back to the issue of doctrinal support. Spreading Christianity by force was never authorized. Spreading Islam by force, if necessary, is a religious duty.
Islam’s early expansion, begun by Mohammad and carried forth by the early Caliphs, was an intense period of bloody religious imperialism. Islam is a “religion” that is founded upon capture of land, booty, and women and children that could be used as slaves, with some ad hoc “revelations” from Allah thrown in whenever Mohammad needed to come up with a justification for whatever crime he happened to be committing at the time.
Pong:“Any religion is an ideology and as such, no religion can escape to be a political movement.”
It cannot be denied that the Abrahamic religions have a political component. However, this is weak in Christianity, which permits a division between church and state (e.g., render unto Caesar…). It strong, approaching absolute, in Islam. No one may share in Allah’s government. The world must be submitted to Islamic law, period. Christianity has no such feature. True, theocrats in the U.S. are attempting to impose their vision on the masses, but they don’t have doctrinal support with which to impose this vision on others, and they are still limited by the constitution and by the system of democracy, and by the free expression (allowing for criticism and argument) which Americans enjoy more than perhaps any society (except, perhaps, Denmark!). Also, theocrats in the U.S. do not use violence to impose their view on the masses. That Christianity has survived as the dominant religion in the U.S.—-a free society where sacred cows are ready targets—-does suggest that there is some merit in the Christian religion itself. Being a Christian is not entirely due to family and social influence/upbringing, because Christians (today) are free to leave the religion and are free to criticize it, as well as take personal individualistic interpretations of the Scriptures, rather than relying on an imam authority or an “ummah” popular opinion to tell them how to interpret. In other words, Christianity as practiced today in modern democracies offers choice. It is not perfect and there are still problems, but these are minor indeed compared to the problems with Islam. Islam, even in modern democracies, limits choice, forbids criticism, penalizes dissent, penalizes apostacy harshly, and does rely on authority of the imam and the group-think of the ummah. Islam in western socities has proven to be a force that seeks to subvert and overthrow free and democratic values. Overall, it would be ludicrous to equate the theocratic influences in the U.S. to the instituted Islamic theocracy in countries such as Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
Critical Intro to Islam: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sinaprologue.htm
James Arlandson’s Article “Why I don’t Convert to Islam.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5197&search=arlandson
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5237
Classifying Different Passages in the Koran: Summary
(also see skepticsannotatedbible/quran)
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
Tafsir (or tafseer) is necessary to understand the meaning and context of the quran.
http://www.tafsir.com/
Hadiths (for Sunni)
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/
Sira (life story of the prophet, abbreviated).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sira/index.htm
My articles on “peaceful tolerant” Verses 5:32 and 2:256 can be found here
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_compulsion.html
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_peace.html
Kick this verminous filth out of our country! Yesterday wouldn't be soon enough!
I think it is very sad that this thread has been "over-run" by fundamentalists, even posing as Jews.
In order to distort other peoples' words, to call people atheists, drunks, and mockers.
"I don't think there is a need to 'dialogue' with mockers and scoffers. The best we can do is pray for them." GA-boy
"You wise guy atheists had better sober up a bit....Beth- I'm Jewish and have God in my life. Belief in God is what will help America stave off Islam. This belief is what makes us more aware of the menace of Muhammadanism. I like the fundamentalist preachers who shine a strong light on Muhammad's cult." by dennisw
If you're really Jewish pal, than I'm really the Pope!
You are just as bad as the Muslims in my opinion, why do you need to "bear false witness?"
The truth of the matter is that the Jewish/Christian culture made Western Civ possible, as well as saved it. This is not something to be ashamed of. Rather this is part of the life and history of Western Civ.
It seems you are responding to a non-existent question. Who is ashamed JC culture? or Western Civ?
The history of Xtianity is nothing to be proud of, l could rip your dogma to shread but this is'nt the forum for it. pong is right in stating the hypocracy in useing the JC position to slander the other cult. islam is lame though.
And you thought they only wanted to punish irresponsible editors, didn't you?
The question is not whether murderers who purport to be Christians, Buddhists, etc. are "real Christians," "real Buddhists," etc. That is not for us to judge.
Do Christians say that Christianity requires them to murder to be a good Christian? No.
Do Buddhists say that Buddhism requires them to murder to be good Buddhists? No.
The same goes for all the major religions, except Islam.
Countless knowledgeable, Arabic speaking Muslim holy men assure us that they are required by Islam to commit murder against Christians, Jews and others. Not only allowed, but required. And their scriptures back them up. That's the difference.
Archimedes: "We've been through these debates many times on this site. It would be useful if JW/DW would post a brief summary of the usual arguments and counterarguments so that we can get past this."
Archimedes - I hereby appoint you "Keeper of the Usual Arguments and Counterarguments." Long may you (and your computer files) live!
What was posted is the fact that the Jewish/Christian culture left a mark on the West, that is all.
beav,
Nothing to be ashamed of, just a few reflections, that is all.
you are right to post your thoughts, bigcatgirl
I did not mean to offend,
This thread has left me a little defensive, I have been arguing with "well-intentioned" phonies, who did not understand that I was on their side (not your posts)
I leave you with sincere contrition
Stranger wrote: "The history of Xtianity is nothing to be proud of, l could rip your dogma to shread but this is'nt the forum for it."
I could rip your dogma to shreads too, but I agree that this isn't the forum for it.
Terrific post, Archi!
As for this "...It cannot be denied that the Abrahamic religions have a political component.." would it not be appropriate to deny and to refute Mohammed's claim that his "religion" (which is a totalitarian ideology more than anything else) is not in any way related to Abraham?
The only 'proof' there is, is Mohammed's claim according to the Koran, and that doesn't make it so.
It becomes even more preposterous when Mohammedans claim they would "respect Moses & Jesus" since they were all "Muslim prophets".
This falsehood must be exposed for the pompous BS it is...
Yohannbiimu, truth hurts. Are you aware of what the xtian church did to Galilio? It was'nt long ago they were burning witches too.
Yohannbiimu, truth hurts. Are you aware of what the xtian church did to Galilio? It was'nt long ago they were burning witches too.
Posted by: stranger at February 18, 2006 09:46 PM
Give it a rest Stranger; that was then, this is now. Remember the Reformation? We're all aware of the ANCIENT atrocities committed by Christians acting on their own volition or under the direction of the Catholic Church, NOT the doctrine of Christianity. Today's Christians and today's Catholic Church DO NOT COMMIT ATROCITIES in the name of Christianity. The Bible does not condone or sanction such behavior and NEVER HAS. There is no equivalence between Islam and Christianity---NONE!!
I hope atheism provides all the serenity and happiness you could ever want. You are welcome to condemn religion to your heart's content but like it or not, the world you live in was profoundly influenced and shaped by the Judeo/Christian tradition, which gave us Western Civilization. Western Civilization is far superior to anything else, past or present, or would you prefer the enlightenment of Islam?
"Are you aware of what the xtian church did to Galilio?"
That was 1633, no? Which by my count is roughly 19 generations.
"It was'nt long ago they were burning witches too."
And from my brief google search, the witch-burning heyday also appears to have been about 400 years ago.
But 400 years is a long time in human history, non? I mean, would we even be having this conversation if Muslim atrocities were 400 years behind us? No, the sad fact is that thanks to the Muslims, we've all just been plunged back 400 years. Now we don't just get to read in history books about witches being burned by Christian fanatics, we get the live educational experience ourselves, only the fanatics are waving a new flag!
My fellow infidels – We’re all witches now! So to all you bored couch potatoes, fed up with the latest re-runs on TVland, you don’t even need to switch to the History Channel to get your dose of reality - it’s coming to you – live, and in the flesh!
Hmm… I can’t help but wonder though whether witches back in the day actually debated theology amongst themselves. SNL writers - there’s some ripe material for you to tap into. Get to work!
"Give it a rest Stranger; that was then, this is now"
posted by Susan at 11:00.
"would we even be having this conversation if Muslim atrocities were 400 years behind us?"
posted by Caroline, at 11:00.
Great minds not only think alike. They think it at the same time. :-)
OK Foehammer, l'll refrain from comparing religions, fighting fire with fire is one thing but, might l add that fighting BS with BS is BS.
Thanks for putting it so straight, Stranger.
I do not care about anybody believing in god, whatever name they call it. I live in a country with more casualties caused by Muslims since 9/11 with exception of places like Iraq and Afghanistan and it is not a Christian or a Jewish one. I can see how much hatred Muslims have towards Buddhists and at the same time I can also see Christian missionaries trying to save those Buddhists not from Islam but from “an eternal condemnation” because “there is no salvation but through Christ”.
Apparently it is more important for them “to save poor Buddhists” then to give support to Christians in Indonesia, Malaysia and the Middle East.
Christian influence in US is could be used to help Christians in those places, but almost nothing is done.
We have to be together in fighting Islam. You can believe in BS (thanks again, Stranger) but don’t try to convince us. Most people in the world are not Christians or Jews.
Late president Ronald Reagan call Communism – an evil ideology. President Bush understands that to call Islam – an evil ideology is a difficult one. You get away with Allah – Jesus will follow.
Susanp - This is a war between lslam and civilization, not xtians and muslims...We cannot pull rank when it comes to religion otherwise we slump to the level of the muslims because all we're doing then is creating a three man war which will defeat our purpose giving lslam that leg up. "They" throw their book at us and l see it as futile Xtians trying to bash them with the bible.
Caroline - Oh excuse me for the error... "as above" caroline... And yes l just took a brief glance into the 17th century.
Pong - l apreciate that and l have noticed that you have not pulled rank with your religion, l aplaud you and god bless you.
applaud - sorry Caroline :)
sheik,
Although Islam is often called "Abrahamic," I have to agree with what you say that this name is misleading. Mohammad (or whoever authored the Koran) did plagiarize all kinds of material from the Jews (e.g., presenting rabbis' personal commentary as words of Allah), but it was mixed in with his own ideas, and altered to fit his own agenda. And as I suggested, Mohammad seems to have made up revelations ad hoc to justify whatever immoral or criminal activity he was involved in at the time.
"It becomes even more preposterous when Mohammedans claim they would "respect Moses & Jesus" since they were all "Muslim prophets"."
Yes, though many ordinary Muslims who've not studied the Koran with a critical eye may sincerely believe this. But the smooth-talking Muslim apologists and spokesmen love to play up the connections between Islam and "the People of the Book." But what the Koran says about the earlier prophets having bungled, and the Jews and Christians having "corrupted the scriptures," is obviously offensive to Christians and Jews, and the claim that Jesus was a mere prophet (not son of God) who only appeared to have died on the cross, is obviously offensive to Christians. This is on top of all the other insults and condemnations of Christians and Jews, who are called disbelievers who must be converted, subjugated, or killed.
These religions are just not compatible. Islam needs a modern, radical reformation. Once criticism and apostacy are permitted, Islam as we know it will be finished. The Islamists are taking this cartoon business very seriously because they know that it is a real threat--criticism and lampoon, unconstrained, would destroy it.
Sir Archimedes: "Once criticism and apostacy are permitted, Islam as we know it will be finished. The Islamists are taking this cartoon business very seriously because they know that it is a real threat--criticism and lampoon, unconstrained, would destroy it."
Hear! Hear! (and the "Sir" is in deference to your well-earned title of "Keeper of the Usual Arguments and Counterarguments"):-)
To those that doubt:
No where in the Bible does God instruct me to allow others to kill my family, destroy my religion or destroy my country, but to protect all three from evil deeds and the evil ones that do these deeds.
Passage Luke 22:36:
36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Instructions from Jesus to the Disciples.
Jeremiah 24:10 (Whole Chapter)
I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their fathers.' "
Jeremiah 46:10 (Whole Chapter)
But that day belongs to the LORD, the Lord Almighty— a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by the River Euphrates
Matthew 10:34 (Whole Chapter)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Revelations 7:14
And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
The war with Islam is inevtiable and it is fastly approaching.
Multitutes will come out of the great tribulation, war with Islam, that fight for God our religions and countries. God will see us through and be with us in the fight against this evil.
Prepare, be aremed be ready.
The Texican.
Freedom. The only choice at any cost.
Oh look, another rabid Xtian fundy sinking to the pathetic depths of their muslims cousins, thankfully Xtianity has developed somewhat but there's always the odd zealot with its neurotic view of itself in the world.. Freedom. The only choice at any cost.. Da texan, your mind has been turned into an unfathomable and imperishable ocean of deception..
Stranger, you have said: Ummmm Beth -
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me” (LUKE 19:27) ooops! Did Jesus say that? yes. religion is bullshit.. billions of self proposed 'rational human beings' still choose to adhere to primitive faiths that are so foul, corrupt and often perverse that it makes me sick..."
It is your right to exercise free speech - no doubt about it, but the fragment you quoted is a parable told by Jesus and NOT His commandment.
Are you being manipulative or do you not know the meaning of a double quote in a text?
Starnger - "elledged appearance of jesus"? Alleged?
Well how about the "alleged" historians like Josephus Flavius who makes a reference to Jesus?
Da texan, your mind has been turned into an unfathomable and imperishable ocean of deception..
Posted by: stranger
It is enlightening to see all of the agnostics and atheists upset with Christianity, but your venom that is so transparent is aimed at the wrong target.
America is the nation it is because of the Christians that formed it and have led it for over 200 years. This has allowed all Americans to believe or not believe as you wish and to utter such utter stupidity that you posted.
I find it astonishing that with the threat of complete annihilation of America by Islam, that there are those like you that would rather condemn Christians instead of joining together to take the war to Islam.
I haven’t condemned you, but you condemn Christians because we believe.
When you demean Christians you just show your total ignorance of American history and your beliefs in the leftist liberal dogma. Most leftist liberals that I have meet fear that there is a God and they will be judged by God and found to be lacking and condemned to the final death of their soul. The Bible says "Judge not least you be judged by the standards you set." I will be judged by the standards that I have set and am willing to so be judged. Are you ready to be judged for you will be judged by God regardless of what you believe or think.
We post and argue because we have the right and freedom to so espouse our views. We do not have to agree because of the war fought and won by American Christians, Jews, agnostics and even atheists.
Islam has no such beliefs in freedom of individuals. Islam intends on defeating America and eradicating Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists and all infidels.
Choose you war. War with Islam is inevitable. Islam is attacking Christianity and Christians across America will defend our beliefs and America. We will not go silently into the dark.
The Texican
Prepare, be armed be ready.
Freedom. The only choice at any cost.
Susan, Caroline & Texican,
Thanks for standing up to the hypocrite, Stranger. His sneering contempt is showing. He's probably just another jihadi sent to divide and conquer, play the Christians against the Jews and stir up hatred and confusion. Kudos to you for not buying into his BS.
I especially like his offering God's blessing to Pong. What a hypocrite. And please tell me why the atheists on this site think they are so noble? To quote a famous pop star, "What have you done for me lately?"
Beav, I stopped reading the exchanges among you, Gary and Beth halfway through. I read your initial comment and found it ironic. Please don't get angry at someone misunderstanding you. Christians are busy these days defending themselves (often when the subject of Islam is brought up it is Christianity that ends up in need of defense) and perhaps we have lost a little our perspective.
The Texan,
Religion has made a virtue of cruelty. Bloody sacrifices of human beings to appease the gods fill the pages of history. This is my beef and when l see people "counter" the BS dogma of lslam with Xtian BS l perceive the demise of our freedom at the hands of these jihadis. Simple logic will destroy lslam not this hypocritical ring around the rosy crap.
polish infideless,
Jesus condoned and advocated murder: Luke 19:27.. that is my point on this verse and l did'nt say it was a command at all. Someone asked for one negative verse and they got it. Here have some more..
1 John 5:19. Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” ..sounds like something a muslim would say, just replace Paul for Mohummad.. Hebrews 3:12 Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (mmmm that's nice) everyone will have to worship Jesus...whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10.... Now replace Mohummad for Jesus in the Phil 2:10 verse and what have you got? Granted, compare lslam with Xtianity and lslam comes out far far worse but to throw Xtian script at muslims only makes their resolve even stronger and alienates the rest of us.
was Josephus Flavius there at the time of the elleged appearance of Jesus? ..all accounts of Jesus come from hearsay writings and no contemporary evidence exists.
Isabellathecrusader
The god l believe in is the one with-in not the grand poo pa in the sky you're terrorfied of.
Thanks Stranger, for your comment about the god with-in you. Whatever that might be, which doesn't sound like much since you didn't bother to capitalize the "g", ought to give all of us here a warm fuzzy when it comes to spiritual protection from the Satanic forces of Islam.
And since you assume that I'm terrified of my God, (wrong again!) let's make a little assumption about you based on your utterings. At first I thought you were simply an embittered former Christian, who had some bad thing happen to him and now he blames God for all his problems. But now I am more persuaded that you have never met the true God, for it is obvious by your vitriolic spew that you speak of what you know not. Your comment that, "Religion makes a virtue of cruelty," suggests that you are a recovering Muslim who was so abused by your demonic "god" that any reference to the True God would be repugnant to you. Come towards the light, brother. I will pray that your eyes will be opened. I even forgive you for deliberately insulting Christians by replacing Our Lord's name with an "X". But there is hope for you, because in this case, "X" marks the spot.
Isabellathecrusader
What difference does a capital "g" make? Satan? Com'on, it is common for Xtians to speak in languages which others identify as fantasy, in that the experiences Xtians describe are understood to be unreal and thus the product of a deluded mind. You've met the true god? Get a grip! Your feeble attempt to insult me with the "assumption" that l'm a recovering muslim is testament to your own state of mind.
Stranger.
I am with you all the way!
Stranger,
Gotcha, didn't I. Otherwise you wouldn't be foaming at the mouth.
If that "god" within you works for you, I hope you'll be very happy together. But I doubt it...you wouldn't be so bitter, condescending and covertly hostile if it did.
BTW, I love your comments referencing fantasy and a deluded mind. What kind of deluded mind makes up some word that looks like a label for Inter-galactic space creatures to describe a group of people who have been going strong for 2000 years? Sorry, but your contempt is showing. If you are trying to use logic to show that you are a wiser and more intelligent being and that you have the answers to combat the very real threat of Islam, you've failed miserably. The "god" within you sounds more like a spoiled, selfish brat than a being that has any power to deal with what is coming our way.
Don't worry though; while you are off imitating Muslims we'll watch your back for you. It's a Christian thing.