Russia may sell arms to Hamas

The world needs to understand that Palestine doesn't need any more weapons or military aircraft (just how big is Palestine anyway?).

It's bad enough they have guns and no common sense. That's a danger in itself.

Since when did we start trusting Russia? Russia is still a wreck isn't it? If they're doing anything, it's for their own benefit. Not everyone else's.

"The Palestinian Authority wants to buy two Mi-17 transport helicopters and 50 armoured personnel carriers, news agency Interfax has reported."

I really don't a few old BRT-70s and a couple of transport helicopters are going to pose an threat to Israel. I recall the last time the Palestinians had some Mi-17s they were grounded because the ground crewman were selling the aviation fuel on the black market and filling the helicopters tanks with low grade gas. The results were predictable. This new equipment will make good target practice for the IDF.

Almost hilarious how a blind marginalist will twist themself into a pretzel to find some glimmer of appeasement in an unappeaseable situation.

Make sure the money to buy arms does not come from the West, and then bomb the fools.

From the article: "But they admit Russia still offers the best hope for a breakthrough."

Yes, so Hamas can breakthrough the security wall.

Please permit me to try that again:

Yes, so Hamas can break through the Israeli security wall.

I am curious to see how the palis are going to buy anything...since they are wastes of oxygen and have no economy other than hating Israel.Their funding is about to be cut off.Perhaps the wording should be changed to "give" the palis weapons.

The Israelis should announce that they will enter into negotiations with the Chechnians to sell them advanced weapons like night visions goggles, stinger missiles etc. That should get Putin's attention. Next, Israel should announce that they are talking with Chechnia to sell them nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

"Sell arms"? To be paid for with what money? If the American and European Infidels stop paying the Jizyah (and the habit of not paying it sticks, whatever makeup is applied to Miss "Palestine"), where will the money come from? The Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank are essentially incapable of creating, much less sustaining, a viable economy. They will forever be dependent on outside aid. Let that aid come only from fellow Muslims -- if it comes at all. And let that rule apply elsewhere, so that the "wealth" weapon that is so important in the Jihad ceases to be supplied, and constantly replenished, by Infidels, the very victims of that Jihad.

A little clarity, a little common sense, would go a long way to making things better for Infidels. And making things better for Infidels is all that Infidels should care about.

The Palestinian Authority wants to buy two Mi-17 transport helicopters and 50 armoured personnel carriers, ..

Two skeets that will meet their inevitable fate along with 50 BMP's that the IDF's Mekrava tanks will turn into mobile coffins.

Big deal. Given the muzzies track record in combat, one has to wonder if they accept their deaths prior to turning over the engines...really!

Wean them. It's time they grow up.

Can any of you gorgeous western specimen please explain how this fits into your pathetic good and
evil worldview?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060213/lf_nm/religion
_senegal_cartoons_dc_2
To this ridiculous individual Hugh I just want to comment on his wisdom

"The Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank are essentially incapable of creating, much less sustaining, a viable economy."

Just what kind of a depraved racist are you? Isnt that the same thing your country said about blacks not so long ago? If you have any honor left, stop calling them Arabs, but Palestinians. They have a right to their own identity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060213/lf_nm/religion_senegal_cartoons_dc_2

Hey
that's a good use of the $3billion or so dollars in tax or duties that was just released by Israel to the Palestinians. I would think the check was still clearing when Hamas started negotiating an arms sale with the Russians.

Lets see: they are a very poor country with a very low GDP. Based on the old Guns or Butter analysis, they are short on comsumer goods and enjoy a low standard of living. But yet the new Hamas government wants to spend on guns. That is a clear statement of the new government's intentions.

Karimguy: I came across this article a day or two ago, and found it to contain contradictions that undermine its agenda, such as this:

"People here are tolerant not because they are Senegalese or African but because we have a secular society."

What? Not Islam? Senegal is probably the face of a number of Muslim countries, as they were prior to the mass export of Wahabbism, which sought to quash "innovations" in Islam-- such as the laid-back co-existence that still occurs in Senegal-- and return the practice to that of the early Muslims, the "Salafists."

It's just a question of when Wahabbism will start to make inroads. And you've got to hand it to them, they are literally interpreting the Koran and hadiths, so they'll have a compelling case to destroy the tolerant status quo in Senegal. The time bomb is ticking, unfortunately.

Elsewhere in the article:
It's Western countries that challenge Islam.

Tell that to the Egyptian Copts, the Christians in the southern Sudan, and the Abyssinian Christians in Ethiopia, among others. Tell that to the Iraqi and Iranian Jews, and the Falasha, or Ethiopian Jews.

Senegal is not a sanctuary from the Big Bad West, but the Big Bad Mideast. While it's a model of what could be, in terms of religious tolerance and pluralism, it's not because of Islam.

Karimguy wrote:
Just what kind of a depraved racist are you? Isnt that the same thing your country said about blacks not so long ago? If you have any honor left, stop calling them Arabs, but Palestinians. They have a right to their own identity.

And I have the right to not allow anymore of my hard-earned taxes reach their coffers. We have enough problems to deal with right here in the United States and can not continue to blindly bankroll murderers, zealots and madmen.

Palestinians are awash in lies and blood and a 7th century cult mindset. But, there you go: I've called them what they wish to be called.

Let's call them something else also: enemies of world peace.

stop calling them Arabs, but Palestinians

That's why they their flag is nearly identical to that of the "Arab Revolt," I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Arab_colors

The only 'bridges' we need with the Pali-arabs are draw-bridges...

I have some very (!) bad news for the US government: THE COLD WAR DID NOT END IN 1991 with the tearing down of the Berlin Wall! The Cold War is still going on to this day, only most Americans don't seem to know it yet.

Russia in fact secretly remained both Communist and viciously ANTI-AMERICAN to this day!!!! Not only that, but Russia signed an anti-American pact with CHINA in 1991. Both China and Russia are known to have wilfully and covertly armed al-Qaeda terrorists since the signing of that treaty. These ghastly developments have been brought to us by our ol' buddy, Communist Russia, which we can see amount to the Communist's Movement's latest moves in their strategy to win the Cold War and bring down the western democracies. And with all this going on, the western democracies have deluded themselves into believing this war had already been won and by them! Americans really have NOTHING TO THANK RONALD REAGAN FOR EITHER I MIGHT ADD. America may well end up being destroyed by the aggression of the Communists (who are now in cahoots with militant Islam)!!! Robert Spencer, I hope you read this!

To paraphrase something Ousamah bin Laden actually said a few years ago:"The interests of the Islamists and the Socialists meet in the war against the Crusaders!"

EVERYBODY WAKE UP!!! By 'crusaders' bin Looney Tunes is referring to the western democracies and especially the United States.

Russia probably benefits from trade and commerce with the western democracies. It seems to me that the western democracies need Russia the way they need al-Qaeda or Hamas or a thermonuclear holocaust. Their cutting the Russkies out of all future economic dealings (and assistance) is the beginning of what needs to be done. Presently (and obviously) the Russians are banking on the western democracies' reliance on imported fossil fuels for use as international political leverage against them.

As I mentioned previously, Russia is known to have had dealings with numerous terror networks in the past so no one should be surprised, even if the terrorists are Islamic. Claire Sterling documented this is "Network of Terror."

Its is not so bad to have a secular goverment of some kinds, but that is not the core of the arguement.What is being argued here is that Islam itself,and Muslims as a group, are incapable of tolerance,all of them being afflicted with a severe case of Jihadism(as you like to call it). Since Sengegal is 95 percent Muslims, what stops this huge majority from attacking their fellow Christians citizens? Well, what does? Regarding that most people here belittle even the existenz of Muslim moderates, this seems to be strange.And you are neglecting the fact that most of Muslims Goverments in the Middle East are strictly secular. Take Egypt for example. The absolute taboo in Egypt is not so much making fun or ridiculing the goverment, but having affiliations with Islamic groups. The Egyptian goverment severely cracks down on them, as was shown in the voting recently. So as matter of fact the ones being persecuted are not so much the Copts but Muslims. I hope you notice the irony. As a matter of fact the Copts, like most Christians in the Middle East, are a wealthy and generally better educated minority. Anyone who has been to Egypt can testify to the abundance of Churches. I can and I have never seen evidence to extent of persecution, The rampage of some rural Saidi Fellaheen is out of the question. These people
are poor illiterate and supersticious. If, as often happens in Egypt, a fellow Muslim was killed by them for tribal or honor code, would you take
that as persecution? The Jewish community in Iran of 30 000 people is a small but stable community.
They are in no danger of extinction, having their national and religious holidays and their representatives in the Iranian parlament. You cant just point a conflict and show me the christian casualities without also telling about the conflict and also the Muslim casualites. The Lebanese civil was bloody for all sides, but it is generally known that the most ruthless and brutal were the Phalangists and Israelie. The biggest massacres were not between Muslims and Christians, but between Druze and Christians.

"Just what kind of a depraved racist are you? Isnt that the same thing your country said about blacks not so long ago?"

Islamo-virus replicant "Karimguy" is testing the defenses here, which he will find are strong, healthy, and impervious to attack -- there are no immuno-deficient liberal receptor cells here.

Best try your attack at dailykos, Karimguy -- you'll find plenty of willing hosts there.

-Dr Zeno, M.D.

Palestinias are only called Arab because of the cultural Arabization that came with Islamic rule.
Does calling them Arabs mean we associate them with the people or conquerors inhabiting the Arabic Peninsula?The answer is no. The same way we hardly refer to Iraqies, Syrians or Lebanese as exclusivelsy Arabs.They have their own national identity and history.

karimguy -

Whereas black people are actually a race, muslims are just the unbathed, low-end of humanity's IQ distribution. Not really a race, at all. (Think of islam as a lint trap for dumb people.)

Therefore, we can be amused at your dim-witted antics without committing a race crime.

Laughing @ You ...

Pythagoras
Calm down Buddy-America is SELLING HIGH TECH ARMS TO INDONESIA WHICH IS A THREAT TO THOSE LIVING IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD! At least we know now why Hamas is being invited to Moscow :not for love but to sell'em some old Soviet Weaponry.
Karimguy
We have Copts living in our town in New Zealand WHO HAVE FLED PERSECUTION AND DEATH FROM POLICE AND RELIGIOUS MUSLIM FANATICS IN EGYPT. THEY TELL OF DAUGHTERS ABDUCTED AND RAPED,SOMETIMES NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN,OF HUSBANDS AND BROTHERS TORTURED OFTEN KILLED,THE PROPERTY OF COPTS VANDALIZED,LOOTED AND BURNT. Whatever lies your Iman tells you this is NOT the reality of Islam.

Note to karimguy: the only time we really think about muslims, at all, is when we are dusting off the big ones.

"Whereas black people are actually a race, muslims are just the unbathed, low-end of humanity's IQ distribution. Not really a race, at all. (Think of islam as a lint trap for dumb people.)"

That must makes me an exception, being much more intelligent then you ever hope to be. Salam.

It is amazing. What the Portugese and Spanish managed to do to the inidgenous people and religions of South America, that is almost wipe them out with diseases and murder, Muslims didnt manage in 1400 years rule in Egypt. The Egyptian Copts are still a healthy 10 percent of the population, while you already talk about transfering Muslims out of the United States. Shame on you.

Russia is a terrorist country. Why is ANYONE here surprised? Russia:

1. Is a country without any viable democratic institutions;
2. Opposes Israel's existence;
3. Is resurgent due to its gas and oil revenue;
4. Is providing arms to Iran, including (but not limited to) nuclear technology, satellites and, anti-aircraft missiles;
5. Is providing political support to Syria (and probably still provides military aid to Damascus);
6. Beats Polish diplomats in thuggish style;
7. Does not respect the sovereignty of the Baltic States, and Japan;
8. Is attempting to create a second "Kalingrad" inside of Moldova (to prevent it from rejoining Romania) - will not remove troops from Moldova it refers to as "peace keepers";
9. Attempts to undermine Estonia's and Finland's efforts to bring aobut Finno-Ugric consciousness inside of Russia;
10. It refuses to take troops out of Georgia in order to pummel that nation into submission and disallow if from joining Western structures;
11. Treats Ukraine as a vassal state, and has in fact succeeded in extinguishing democracy in the Ukraine;
12. Manipulates Armenia into needed it military so as to prevent Armenia from seeking Western friends;
13. It uses gas a weapon in Europe, charging different rates, threatening states with gas cut offs, and scaring the entire continent;
14. It enjoys close relations with Belarus, a pariah state that entertains visions of a greater Russia;
15. Maintain relations with North Korea;
16. Intermeddles in our affairs with Central Asian countries, particularly Uzbekistan;
17. Refuses to allow the beast of the former Soviet Union to die- believes in the continuation of the oppressive state system;
18. Is cooperating with China in efforts to combat US power projection;
19. Calls HAMAS a group with which we can work;
Russia seeks to sell weapons to HAMAS !

Im sure Russia is not ignorant to the facts of Hamas.The fools hope of moderation didnt yeild much with Arafat and his gang,the same may be the outcome with Hamas.So if we can assume Russia is not ignorant of the basic facts,then its safe to say Russia is supporting Hamas and its apocaliptic goals.At least we know where the old Bear stands.When a reality check is noticed it always helps those who need to make the proper adjustmens.

The Palestinians have said that they would return the cash that the US has currently given them.

Let them buy Russian arms - preferably with Islamic money (KSA, Iran, Qatar, et al). Once the transaction is complete, Israel should do a 1967 type attack on them, and wipe out their armed forces and weapons.

The benefits for infidels:

- US gets back its money. Even if it doesn't, Russia gets it. It doesn't go into mosques in NY.
- Israel destroys something tangible, and reduces its threat
- Russia gets Islamic cash.

America is a terrorist state. Here is the proof.

1) Starts an illegal without UN sanctions, by falsifying evidence.

2) Refused and refuses to allow Democracy in the Middle East and also did so in Latin America by continually supporting Dictators, holding their own interests over Human Rights. Pinochet come to mind.

3) refused to sign the Kyoto protocal for enviromental protection.

4) illegaly spies own its own citizens without a warrant from the supreme court.

5) detains innocent people and doesnt give them a right to an appeal or a lawyer, simply by calling them terrorists.

6) legalizes torture and also applies it to prisoners.

7) Holds a torture base, Guantanamo, condemmed by all Human rights agencies and the UN

8) builds illegal CIA torture bases in Europe and kidnapps the citizens of its Allies.

9) illegaly used weapons of mass destructions on civillian populations.

10) continues to support the severe human rights violations and illegal settlement building of Israel

11) uses illegal weapons, such as phosphour and napalm, on civillians

These are just a few to warm you up.

8)

Hamas has held on to the truce with Israel, despite
Israel having killep 15 Palestinians till now. Is there anyone, ANYONE; here who argue against the fact
that the Israeli Defense forces,started out of terrorists gangs like Stern and Hagganah and that most Israli Prime ministers were part of these groups
and also took part in well known massacres? So why argue against Hamas and be so biased? Isnt there an analogy between the founding of Israel and Hamas?

Karimguy:

The Copts ARE being persecuted in Egypt--nNo matter what you say to the contrary. I KNOW this for a FACT since I personally know some Coptic Christians who fled Egypt for personal safety reasons and came to the US and have spoken to them about this issue.

Government crackdowns in Egypt may receive MORE PRESS COVERAGE than do attacks on Coptic Christians, nevertheless, the population of Coptic Christians in Egypt is steadily shrinking. You'll notice that Egypt's human population continues to expand like wildfire. None of the population increase in Egypt is coming from non-Muslims I can assure you. The situation is similar from Africa to Indonesia I promise you.

About a year ago, an immigrant Coptic Christian family was found dead in their New Jersy home with their throats slit. Jihadists from Egypt are suspected of having perpetrated this crime. If so, Egyptian persecution of Copts is no longer limited to Egyptian territory.

Since Sengegal is 95 percent Muslims, what stops this huge majority from attacking their fellow Christians citizens? - posted by Karimguy

Karimguy, reread the third and fourth paragraphs from my post above:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010288.php#c178302

All shall be revealed, in'Shinoliite (Shinoliite willing).

Karimguy,

Belonging to a fake religion that operates entirely outside of, and in contempt of, international laws, and dedicated to destroying the cultures, customs, and and human rights of all outsiders via every means available, including violence up to and including genocde, you have absolutely no right to lecture us on the legality of anything.

RE:Karimguy,
What you describe in Senegal passes for Dhimminitude. All the non-Muslims know their place and are kept in it. Karimguy, just step ouside your paradigms and see what is really going on. Oh I forgot! Islam doesn't let you do that and live!

Have you asked them why they fled? Simply for being Christians is a little bit silly answer, dont you agree? I can assure you that there are many more Muslim Exiles from Egypt, who fled because of their
opposition to the Goverment.

"About a year ago, an immigrant Coptic Christian family was found dead in their New Jersy home with their throats slit. Jihadists from Egypt are suspected of having perpetrated this crime. If so, Egyptian persecution of Copts is no longer limited to Egyptian territory."

Forgive me, but that sounds extremely biased. You cant simply draw a conclusion like this without evidence, even if Muslims commited this crime, then
why associate religious motives without knowing the background? That is contrary to your law. Innocent until proven guilty. But that is in some way typical, draw conclsuions bases on the supposed general mentality of an ethnic or religious group. If a Copt is killed, that does not immediately mean because of his religion.

Morgane-

Indonesia, abysmal as its human rights record is, does NOT have a record of invading foreign territories, and it does NOT have 50-plus million government-sponsored murders to its credit as does Russia. And it certainly has never been a superpower and is VERY unlikely in our lifetimes to achieve anything like that. Indonesia is technologically generations behind the Russians. It couldn't even beat Malaysia in the 1960s if you remember Sukarno's "Crush Malaysia" campaign which ended in miserable failure.

Have you ever been to Indonesia my friend. You are making the assumption that Indonesia would be able to invade Australia on its own devices--wrong.

The only way Indonesia could pose a threat on a scale comparable to aomething the Russians could pull off tp Australia or New Zealand would be for the Middle East to virtually take the place over and run it on their own. Not likely.

Indonesians never really fully Islamized either. Most of the Islamic loonies over there are of Arab descent--not Malay. But we'll save that for later.

Belonging to a FAKE STATES that operates entirely outside of, and in contempt of, international laws, and dedicated to destroying the cultures, customs, and and human rights of all outsiders via every means available, including violence up to and including genocde, you have absolutely no right to lecture us on the legality of anything.

I think you are absolutely right.

Karimguy wrote:
"Palestinias are only called Arab because of the cultural Arabization that came with Islamic rule.
Does calling them Arabs mean we associate them with the people or conquerors inhabiting the Arabic Peninsula?The answer is no. The same way we hardly refer to Iraqies, Syrians or Lebanese as exclusivelsy Arabs.They have their own national identity and history"

Yes you are right. They are not Arabic but Semitic. But that is besides the point.

Islam might have been fine 1,200 years ago for a bunch of thieving Arab Bedouin nomads pillaging and subjugating neighboring tribes but it doesn't cut it in the 21st century. All of the major world conflicts involve prosteltizing Muslims engaged in the violent subjugation of an indigenous non-Islamic population. At the expense of repeating myself you need to step out of your paradigm and see what is really going on. Stop reflexively defending an inherently violent and repressive religion.

Karimguy,

FAKE STATES. Yes, that was such a clever turnabout. Your blind ignorance matches your mindless hate. Islamic brainwashing has poisoned you. I'll pray for your soul.

Stendec,

"Your blind ignorance matches your mindless hate. Islamic brainwashing has poisoned you. I'll pray for your soul."

I dont hate you, I often feel intense anger, but no hate. I have a christian girlfriend and my mother used to be a christian, so why should I? Believe it or not, I am an individual just like you.On the opposite I see these blogs filled with hate and unchristian(despite claims to the contrary)cruelty, so it is not that I hate you. I pity you for your lack of empathy and warmth. I dont have to pull my religion into every dastardly deed done to Muslims
or nonMuslims. It gives me enough of a moral outline to judge what is wrong and what is not. Contrary to you, I would never defend an act of violence against innocent Americans( soldiers are another matter).
So where is that hate and ignorance?

If a Copt is killed, that does not immediately mean because of his religion. - posted by Karimguy

The motive for the slain Coptic Egyptian mentioned above was officially termed a "robbery." But the method of the crime sounds much more like revenge/assassination.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/009210.php

If robbery was the motive, why were he, his wife, and two daughters all stabbed to death? The article makes it clear their faces were very purposefully desecrated in the act, especially that of the man's outspoken daughter.

The man in question, according to the article, "was well known for expressing his Coptic beliefs and engaging in fiery back-and-forth with Muslims on the Web site paltalk.com," and that criticism did not come without threats, such as "You'd better stop this bull---- or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you."

"Robbery" doesn't cut it. I'd be willing to bet the authorities fudged the motive (seems logical the assailants would plunder valuables while taking their revenge - so, hey, it's a robbery) to keep tensions from boiling over.

Shinoliite,

How many times have I been threatened with death on this site? If tomorrow my corpse is found, is it reasonable to assume that it was a blogger here on Jihad watch? The point is, that is just guesswork. Lynchmobs need guesswork, reasonable people ask for evidence. Whoever did this, I hope they catch the motherfuckers and hang them.

Back to Russia and Hamas... three, no, four possible outcomes:

1. No renunciation of the desire to destroy Israel = No deal.

2. Russia actually finagles said renunciation. Pigs fly, but are not caught and cooked in order not to offend the Hamas guests. The deal is on.

3. Most likely: Hamas gives lip service to "wanting peace," though still without any concrete assurance of non-aggression toward Israel. Russia decides it's good enough for them. The deal is on.

4. "Wild-card" scenario: "Water" pitchers for the two parties are inadvertently swapped. Russians wonder why the vodka isn't doing anything, and has a chlorine side-taste. Hamas empties their pitcher and starts to lighten up as talks proceed; Mrs. Putin starts to look pretty hot. Hamas renounces violence, Mr. Pibb, and the Smurfs, and wakes up the next morning with a headache.

I give up, al-Pottymouth, how many times have you, personally, been threatened?

We get postings from crackpots occasionally, but they're deleted and banned with an impressive promptness that is a testament to the belief around here that the pen is, by far, mightier than the sword.

"I give up, al-Pottymouth, how many times have you, personally, been threatened?
We get postings from crackpots occasionally, but they're deleted and banned with an impressive promptness that is a testament to the belief around here that the pen is, by far, mightier than the sword."

How many times? Do you know that Delusional psychopath called the Texan, or border line patient Mahdi Al-Dajjal? There was even an almost plead for raping Muslim women and killing the men in the United States. When did you ever object to these blogs?Now, now dont play the oh so typical hypocrite "I am so devastated by muslims manners"
card. How many times did you call for Muslims to be attacked or shipped out of the United States?
Hitler never used any vile language in his speeches either. So what. It is the content that matters. Deleting every crackpot writing here would make holding this website impossible. It is website for extremists after all.

Lo! Learned fellow kafir followers of JW/DW be ye Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus or unbelievers, cease conversing with Moslem trolls. Do you not know that they have lost all reason and that ye find yourselves in the Dar-Al-Harb? Do you not know that the Western world (peace be upon us) prepares for them, the great continued humiliation. Surely their date with modernity has arrived! O kafirs, save your breath and instead inform other terribly ignorant kafirs about Islam so that Islam can surely be defeated. Amin.

Source: Sacred Selected prayers by Kafir Non-Believer (on trolls) 1:01

Some Moslem trolls pretend there is no problem with radical Islam in West Africa and don't even see the mess big brother Nigeria is in! Shari'a is nicely planted in Northern Nigeria today. Tomorrow it will overcome Lagos. The divine laws will then, inshallah, be brought to Senegal, Guinea, Mali and beyond. O Allah, surely you will be pleased!

Racism I hear? Those who take Islam are themselves victims of it by the hands of the true African oppressors: Arabs.

Believe me, I'm not opposed to a little "blue language," especially when driving. My own personal practice is one of "no first use," like nuclear weapons. When in Rome, do as the Romans do, but they have to move first. So when Robert, Hugh, Rebecca, or Anne drops the first "F-bomb," I'll follow suit. ;)

Every comment posted here has a unique link. Don't just name names, Karimguy; show some examples. Nonetheless, there's a lot that's said here that I don't agree with, whether in style or content. For example, I don't cotton to people who emote in all caps or bandy about homegrown catchphrases. I also disagree with the use of perjoratives that sometimes slip through, like "muzzies." Satire, yes. Slurs, no. Ideological battles, yes. Calls for violence, no.

It's impossible to moderate every comment-- never mind insults, how about grammar, spelling, usage, and brevity? (That last one would sink my battleship.) It's part of a mature existence to choose your battles against what offends you, and we all have better things to do anyway.

That's also what disclaimers are for. Scroll up and read it. Memorize it. There will be a short quiz later on. That's a promise, not a threat. :P

The sub-heading:

Hamas May Transfer the Russian Arms to Chechins.

And Russia is welcome to the blowback.

They think they are chessmaster Machiavellians.

They are:

Short-sight suckers.

karimguy-

The point is not simply a litany of what bad things either side is doing (all war is always hell) but what your ultimate aims are.

Islam's aim is:

a global theocratic prison camp where free thought is forbidden as blasphemy.

The West's aim is:

greater and greater freedom of belief, conscience, expression and discovery.

And we'll battle to keep it.

So, knowing your side's desires, I really don't care about any of your insincere complaints over how we fight this war.

The ends sure as hell justify the means -when it means survival.

May the Islamic Imperialists come to the same hard truth that the Japanese warlords did, -and better sooner than later:

-freedom will always draw more passion and intelligence to its cause than the the side of dogmatic monotony and "submission"'s slavery.

Best of luck in the joyless zone of Islam.

May you wise up and bail out.

Inshallah.

No, the issue is when crimes are commited in the name of Islam, it is for you proof of an imperial ideology that needs to be rooted out. When you commit the same crimes, when the United States threatens world peace with its clear imperial ambitions it is no matter.
I am sorry, but the conclusion doesnt make you look good. You neither seem critical nor free. You appear more selfish and hypocritical then anything, telling others to change while ignoring the plight of millions casused by your culture.

Karimguy:

It would appear your only form of nutrition is koolaid.
Your triad about America being a terrorist state is laughable and just what one would expect from a Moslem apologist.

1) Your first statement tells it all, it makes NO sense . Please proof read before you post.

2) There is only one democracy in the middle east - Israel. Just because you are elected by people voting for you and you call yourself a president doesn't make your country a democracy. Saddam was always voted into office but no one in his right mind would call Iraqi under Saddam a democracy. Yes the U.S. has supported a number of right wing dictators over communist dictators, political reality at the time- live with it.

3) I wouldn’t sign the Kyoto protocol either. It allowed 3rd world countries (like China) virtually unlimited pollution on the environment while severely punishing industrial countries.

4) Name me 1, just 1 country that doesn't spy at one time or another on its own citizens.

5) Read the Geneva Convention on unlawful combatants. They have NO rights to a lawyer or appeals.

6) The constitution of the U.S. specifically states , no prisoner will be subjected to cruel or unusual punishment - torture.

7) A little known UN study was taken of prisoners recently released in Egypt, Sudan, Iran, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan. They were asked if they were to go back to prison would they want to go back to the prison they were just released from or go to Guantanamo. 100% stated Gitmo. I guess the torture of 3 good meals a day, great medical care and the freedom of fear beats the tortures the just experienced in the last prison they were in.

8) See # 6

9) At the time the use of the atomic bomb on Japan was NOT illegal, it was war and far, far more civilians were killed by conventional bombs.

10) All U.S. presidents from Jimmy Carter on have severely criticized Israel at one time or another for their settlements in the west bank and gaza and for their treatment of the Palestinians.

11) When unlawful combatants hide among and use civilians as human shields, the U.S. military goes out of their way to try and avoid civilian causalities. Unlike the Moslem terrorists who routinely show their extreme pleasure in killing and maiming children, women and unarmed men waiting in line to get a job.

The above from an independent agnostic who firmly believes if the whole world was agnostic we wouldn’t have the problems we now face.

No WLF, you are laughable, you have made yourself the butt of jokes. Your answers are so ridiculously apologetic and narrow minded that answering them
would make me look bad. All I can say, way to go critical thinker.

Oil chaps oil, lran will be in on these deals and Russia will be the darling of the anti-semetic hordes.

A little known UN study was taken of prisoners recently released in Egypt, Sudan, Iran, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan. They were asked if they were to go back to prison would they want to go back to the prison they were just released from or go to Guantanamo. 100% stated Gitmo. I guess the torture of 3 good meals a day, great medical care and the freedom of fear beats the tortures the just experienced in the last prison they were in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,5398934-111575,00.html

Where is your little know study here? I can just Imagine Iraqies standing in line to be sodomized, mutilated, burned, beaten and starved.Its not what
is written in your constitution but whether you stick
to it. It is just a piece of paper. Every Arab country has a constitution promising protection from political persecution and freedom of speech.Gee.I am impressed.

Yes the U.S. has supported a number of right wing dictators over communist dictators, political reality at the time- live with it.

That being Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Persia, Pinochet, Hosni Mubarak, King Fahd; including death
in Latin America ecs ecs. Right wing dictators or monsters?

death squads

I am sure those 4 million dead Viatnamese, burned by Napalm and Agent Orange, felt very happy at the thought of the U.S consitution giving them a garantue of protection. Maybe the executed Taliban captives
praised the U.S before being unceremnonially shot in the back. Dont watch CNN; read Amnesty. I have this years edition and boy you look bad. So much for freedom.

The only way we can get through this is if we both
start apologizing to our dead and giving them the honor they deserve. On our side that includes a millions Armenians, thousandths of Kurds Jews, and god knows how many Sudanese ecs. On you side 17 million dead Native Americans,500 000 dead Japanse, 4 million Viatnamese,500 000 dead Latin Americans, over a million dead Iraqies ecs. The way I see it you are heavily indoctrinated and unapologetic, as well as arrogant. You desperately want a war, I dont. Realize
that Muslims are Human Beings, not drones, or breathing stereptypes, if you hurt them they will react( or overreact). As Shakepeare said "If you prick us, do we not bleed?". That is all that needs to be said. No more and no less.

Good night

karimguy, after reading alllll your posts after mine, please lay off the kool-aid, you are soooooo easy.

Yeah,yeah and bla bla bla, yadda yadda yadda. Happy now? You are having a conversation with me. I guess you are winning.

good night

Hmph. Last weekend's trolls did So much better.

Gary - totally. No followup on my previous exchange with him, in which I requested specific examples of threats. There was a pause, and then the subject changed.

There's always next weekend, I guess. ;)

karimguy: "I guess you are winning."

OK, admittedly I did skip this whole thread but just as one can stumble onto the end of a Hollywood romance movie and expect to see "And they lived happily ever after", one can stumble onto the end of a thread with Muslims and see something to the effect of "I win, you lose", or as in this case, "OK, you are winning, for now".

The point being that for Muslims, it's all about winning or losing. That pretty much sums up their idea of spirituality. I win - you lose. Or you win - I lose. How pathetic is that?

Pythagoras Honey
You may regard Indonesia's most populous nation of Muslims as MODERATES but I sure don't-the Island of Bali is lovely but folk there are mostly Hindus not Muzzies and I won't be risking my arse by going there again. And of course the 'secular & very corrupt' police can easily frame you for drugs. Personally think a firing squad is preferable fate than dying slowly in one of their stinking squalid jails where a juicy rat is thought to be a treat... Strange that with all the rules of 'Holy Koran' Muzzies live in such filth with ideas of hygiene which have obviously never changed since the days of Murderous Mo & 7th Century.
As for Indonesia NEVER INVADING ANYONE -have you been living on this planet...You must know the terrible things which happened in Christian East
Timor. At the moment the people of Papua New Guinea are fighting the Indonesian Military with rocks and sticks and their bare hands-no one gives them any media attention but THEY NEVER WANTED TO BE PART OF THE INDONESIAN PARADISE-and
who can blame them!!

karim83/guy/whomever-

As I mentioned, the means are always messy, but the aims are what is important.

Your aim is to hustle the world into a Shari'ah prison camp run by intolerant theocratic mullahs.

The free world will defend itself against all such delusional efforts.

Democracies dealing with dictators throughout history -to remain free themslves- is cold realpolitik. Churchill hated Stalin, but, to keep his country alive, he allied himself with that maniac, temporarily.

We will do what we need to do to prevent religious imbeciles from ruling the world. )(Saddam's idiot Muslim hordes fought Khomeini's idiot Muslim hordes, so we fed Saddam's in the 1980's to divide both. C'est la vie.)

Imperfect people prefer average human beings at the helm of their government, even if they do screw up and betray their public trust with squalid regularity, rather than allowing "holy" men (who are always perfectly right in their own minds) to guide the destinies of countires. It's a safer bet, judging from the past. As it shows in Iran, where the tunnel-vision leaders run the ship of state onto the rocks of the apocalypse, -on purpose- in order to bring about the return of the Mahdi [Muslim Messiah] to Earth. And institute the Restored Caliphate's paradise on earth through armageddon and chaos.

One more bunch of madmen who think they speak for God. Dooming their people with their dogmatism.

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." [J. Joyce.]

Islam wants to put us into a permanent coma.

"Rage, rage, against the dying of the light." [D. Thomas]

The free people of the world will fight for their liberties.

And all of your examples of Western failures to live up to their ideals mean nothing if you only use them to defend a "religious" despotism. One that smugly despises the free human intelligence and wants us all to bow to their idea of Stupidity Incarnate.

Dream on, and be sure not to eat your pillow (while REM-ing that it was a marshmallow).

Profitsbeard,

I suggest you lock all the doors and windows tight, check under your bed and in your closet, also make sure there is no Jihadi hiding in your cellar or in the fridge. They are out to get you man.Watch out!

Karim Khayal

Does anyone have a link to that site "religionofpeace" which lists the thousands of terrorist attacks perpetrated globally against infidels since 9/11? I want to bookmark it. Muslims have been quite diligent, in case you hadn't noticed, in taking over every anti-jihad website name and replacing it with some bullshit pro-Islam propoganda. Warfare, even cyberspace warfare, is what the "religion of peace" excels at, after all.

Caroline -

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

THE religion of peace! Who would have thunk it? Thanks Shinoliite!

Now, Karimguy. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

karim-

I've done far better than you suggest.

I've read the Koran.

And I know the stakes.

Play whatever silly, self-abnegating game you like.

Cut your own throat with irrelevant historical sophistries .

It'll save the enemies of human liberty the future trouble.

There is no freedom under Islam.

You want that, then be sure to blow out the Big Light (AKA the free human consciousness) when the cage door shuts on your butt.

I'll work from where one can freely petition for redress of grievances peacefully. And where no mullahs steer the power structure toward the cul de sac of dead dogma.

I don't get what you are defending?

Your own submission to the cult of a 7th century pedophile and fool?

All because the free governments of the world are not perfect Paradise already?

That day ain't coming.

Humans are imperfect. And when they claim God is working with them, their charming imperfection becomes magified into insufferable madness, and is absolutely suicidal for the species.

Especially given the malevolent variety of mass-murdering weapons now coming into the hands of fatalistic theocratic cranks.

I could stack up a catalog of 'The sins of the West' that would fill ten libraries, but it doesn't affect the current struggle at all.

The battle for survival sweeps the past into perspective.

Our aim is liberation.

Islam's is subjugation.

Choose wisely.

Or go back to worrying about the dead who cannot be helped by anything.

(The only "jihadist under my bed" looked suspiciously like a dust bunny, so I'll fed-ex to Mecca on Monday, where it can be worshipped along with the broken black meteorite glued into one corner of the Ka'aba. )

I think we have now reach the absymal depth of Human stupidity, where the picture of a man packing his
close is seriously taken at face value. The more you
show me those in wonderfully researched and serious websites the more you convince me of the opposite.
Take a look at this one for a change.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse_reports/Gallery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse_reports/Gallery

Therse is your goddam nation of freedom.I bet you like that? Be prepared, the more you hurt Muslims, the more you are going to get hurt in return. What goes around comes around. So stop this wallowing in selfish and misguided selfglory and hatred.Better sooner then later.In case you havent noticed you are not a bit better then people holding up hateful signs. Be careful what you become.

Lets just what your Ally Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East,thinks about Human rights. The hypocricy is, that in this case you are not bothered
about where your taxes are going.

http://poetry.rotten.com/jenin/

"Sell arms"? To be paid for with what money?

Hugh,
Iranian money!

There is your troll and look how much she is supported. I hope someone catches up with her
and gives her brain surgery without Anesthesia

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/07/iraq/main616306.shtml

The Lebanese civil was bloody for all sides, but it is generally known that the most ruthless and brutal were the Phalangists and Israelie. The biggest massacres were not between Muslims and Christians, but between Druze and Christians.

So Arafat was Druze, certainly not Israelie, when he and his boyz massacred more than 500 Christians of the town of Damour in 1976 in the most bestial fashion and then turned their church into a small arms shooting range and a garage for their jeeps.

After the suffering the Phalangists went through during the 70s at the hands of the PLO it was no wonder that they went wild in Sabra and Shatillah.

Cynic, you just prooved my point. Thank you.

Indonesia, abysmal as its human rights record is, does NOT have a record of invading foreign territories,

You forget East Timor! And don't forget the atrocities. Just ask the Brits who controlled the UN Security Council in 1975.

Cynic, you just prooved my point.

No. I just proved that you will believe what you want to in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

With respect to those trying to discuss something with the writer of the above quote just take note that the Jews when referring to the result of such a discussion refer to the image of people posting messages in the cracks of the "Western Wall" for their reposte as: "He is just talking to a wall".

Go on Cynic. The wall is chuckling.

I dont take insult from someone who considers the bestial murder of 1500 Palestinain refugees a reaction. I cant take offense from you, because anyone who says such a thing is a hopeless idiot.

karimguy

A few facts for you to think about.

1. The vile and evil corrupt souled Mohammed married a 6 year old girl child and started raping this girl child at the age of 9. In civilized lands he is a pedphoile child molester and child rapist. In America we would arrest him and put him in prison where he would probably be murdered. Muslims have such vile and evil corrupt souls that you Muslims honor this evi vile corrupt souled Mohammed the child rapist instead of condemning him for being a follower of Satan.
What is stated here is not true.

2. From my latest review of nuclear weapon facts, Israel has an estiamted 100 to 200 nukes. Before Israel is defeated by Ilsam, Israel will turn the middle east into a sheet of glass.

3. America has over 10,000 nukes and America used nukes on Japan to end WWII. Do you really think that America will not use nukes to end WWIII with Islam??

4. American citizens are armed and are ready for the inevitable war with Islam. When the war starts with Islam, there will be a cleansing in America and across the world that will allow you and your fellow corrupt souled Muslims to meet with the corrupt souled Mohammed in Hell where he is being constantly raped by the demons of Satan which will also be your reward.

If Islam is so great and strong, start the war today.

The Texican

Prepare, be armed be ready.

Freedom. The only choice at any cost.

"American citizens are armed and are ready for the inevitable war with Islam. When the war starts with Islam, there will be a cleansing in America and across the world that will allow you and your fellow corrupt souled Muslims to meet with the corrupt souled Mohammed in Hell where he is being constantly raped by the demons of Satan which will also be your reward"

Jesus! Are you serious? Your weekly intimate sadomaso whipping sessions with your cattle really have a bad
effect on your psyche. You are talking about the willingness to commit genocide here. You are obviously a very very sick man. Get some help. Please, if I dont hear any rebuke from a poster here
then I take it that you all agree with him. Thats quite scary.

Karimguy: "I dont take insult from someone who considers the bestial murder of 1500 Palestinain refugees a reaction."

No, instead, you revere as the most perfect man ever, someone who had 800 Jewish men beheaded, thus revealing yourself to be a hypocrite of the vilest sort instead.

"I cant take offense from you, because anyone who says such a thing is a hopeless idiot."

Which pretty much sums up our inclination to take moral instruction from someone who thinks a mass murdering, thieving, lying, pedophile was not merely a successful warrior, but the Final Prophet of God's Word! LOL! (Last time I checked noone thought either Lyndie England nor The Texan were prophets). So whose the moral midget/idiot here?

Caroline, dont you have something to cook or iron? in your case it would suit you better then trying to be intellectual.

Why do you have to bring the Prophet into this? You are childish and immature, immediately going below the belt when you dont have any arguements left and you feel yourself cornered. The discussion is not the prophet here. And you should be very quiet, what do you think about the 300 000 dead civilians in Japan? I already know, it was justefied murder.

Karimguy - the truth about your prophet doesn't require any special intelligence to grasp. It just requires open eyes and a sense of basic human decency. In fact, overanalyzing things intellectually is an impediment to grasping basic spiritual truths. You only need to open your eyes and have the uncorrupted heart of a child to see that the Emperor has no clothes.

Caroline, cook him in a big couldron and give give to dogs and pigs.

Caroline, and please keep on quoting DANISH writers. Long live Andersen and Denmark and Caroline!

Karimguy - why is mentioning your prophet's crimes "going below the belt"? I mean - he's your prophet isn't he? That being the case, I have to assume you're quite comfortable with his crimes, including the fact that he had 800 Jewish men beheaded and their wives and children sold into slavery. Why do I bring this up here? Because if you know this about him and yet you still believe him to be the final prophet of God's word, then it casts doubt on your credibility to evaluate issues relating to morality. And in saying that, I am merely using your own standards, as indicated in your earlier response to a poster above, that you "cant take offense from you, because anyone who says such a thing is a hopeless idiot" - only in this case, I am substituting, "I can't take moral instruction from you" because...

As to the bombing of Japan, excuse me but when did anyone claim that Truman was the final prophet of God's word? If I thought so, I think you would have good grounds to question my credibility on things moral.

I lack the basic humanity? Just a piece of information for you. These Jews had broken a fair
treaty and commited treachery against Muslims
in war time. What does your constituion say to that?
What is the international law for treason in war or desertion? Tell me. Now think yourself back into the situation of Medina 1600 year ago. You also forget that these Jews were sentenced not by the Muslims, but by another Jewish tribe. According to Jewish Law all children, men, women even the animals had to be killed. The Muslims didnt do that and there is enough evidence that the survivors were treated respectfully. Second, it has no impact whatsoever on Islamic thought today. Prophet Mohammad said that whoever kills a Jew or Christian unjustly he will be his witness against him on Judgement day.

Say: O People of the book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God, that we associate no partners with him, that we erect not, from among ourselves lords and patrons Other then God.If they turn back say ye: Bear witness that we(at least) are muslims( bowing to gods will) Sura 3, verse 64

The Idea is one of harmony even you are personally rejected.

As to the bombing of Japan, excuse me but when did anyone claim that Truman was the final prophet of God's word? If I thought so, I think you would have good grounds to question my credibility on things moral.

Really, does that matter? Prophet Mohammad was also a
man with mistakes.No Muslim makes him divine. But if
we both agree on something wrong and my sinner is a prophet and your sinner is an ordinary man, how does that make you better?

Karimguy: "But if we both agree on something wrong and my sinner is a prophet and your sinner is an ordinary man, how does that make you better?"

Thank you for acknowledging that what your prophet did was wrong. It shows me that you are capable of moral discernment. Now you just need to take that insight one step further and ask yourself honestly whether Muhammad was actually a prophet or merely an ordinary man and a sinner like the rest of us, but clever enough to cloak his earthly and sinful ambitions in the guise of religion.

What ambition? Mohammad died the most powerful man in Arabia and was in debt to his comrades. It was well
known that his wife Aisha used to complain about the lack of the meat and the poverty. He didnt have any material gain from his prophethood? His house in Medinah was a one room little clay hut. So please explain his motives to me.

Karimguy - not all ambition is monetary. The most pernicious and destructive ambitions often relate to the ego:

http://neirr.org/psychissues/Personality_Disorders.htm

“The narcissist is prone to magical thinking. He thinks about himself in terms of ‘being chosen’ or of ‘having a destiny’. …He believes that his life is of such momentous importance, that it is micro-managed by God. …In short, narcissism and religion go well together, because religion allows the narcissist to feel unique.”

“God is everything the narcissist ever wants to be: omniscient, omnipresent, admired, much discussed, and awe inspiring. God is the narcissist’s wet dream, his ultimate grandiose fantasy.”

“The narcissist is haunted by the feeling that he is possessed of a mission, of a destiny, that he is a part of fate, of history. He is convinced that his uniqueness is purposeful, that he is meant to lead, chart new ways, to innovate to modernize, to reform, to set precedents, to create. Every act is significant, every writing of momentous consequences, every thought of revolutionary calibre. He feels part of a grand design, a world plan and the frame of affiliation, the group, of which he is a member, must be commensurately grand.”

"Karimguy - not all ambition is monetary. The most pernicious and destructive ambitions often relate to the ego:.." Man, that is true....Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao...the cast of ego worshipers is endless. It is the ultimate idol worship.

On another matter: I think the headline "Russia may sell arms to Hamas" might be changed to "Russia pretends they might sell arms to Hamas."

The Russians are playing good cop (the Chinese play good cop) and the US has to do what the US has to do to stabilize the "Eurasian Balkans" and the US plays bad cop against a common enemy.

The Russians are playing a role, and don't let Chechnya out of their minds for a moment, or Beslan, where hundreds of children and their mothers were killed by Moslems. Putin understands the real problem.

For Russia, Iran + the (former Soviet)now Islamic Republics south of Russia represent a huge (170 mill +/- population) threat, and Russia will not tolerate Iran getting a nuclear weapon, Iran dominating the region.

Neither Russia, nor China, nor the US, nor Israel, want that. The Russians are playing good cop with Hamas. It's "showtime."

Karimguy: "His house in Medinah was a one room little clay hut."

Come to think of it, the last time I checked, Osama bin Laden lived in a cave. Maybe he's a prophet too by that logic.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm

THESE are the cartoon's you should see

scroll to the bottom

Suicide bombers do not create income...how are these yokels going to pay for weaponry? The Israeli's will use them as target practice.
Too bad they can't contact Arafathead and see how he's doing in Hell as that's where Martyrs end up. NO VIRGINS FOR YOU!!

Karimdude is smoking waaaaay to much opium.
Your fake prophet molested children....see no evil in that? False prophet, false god, false doctrine....That equates to a FALSE RELIGION.
Satan loves martyrs.