Saudi Cleric Demands Trial Over Drawings

Good Site

This is a good site that Muslims should check out in order to enlighten themselves:

http://victimsofallah.blogspot.com/

Meanwhile, Europe takes another step in the wrong direction. The E.U. is considering a "Press Code" on religious matters...

http://thomistic.blogspot.com/2006/02/eu-moves-towards-press-censorship.html

l think the EU has it wrong as usual! when and if have a code if muslims have a code in their own coutnries and allow Christian . non muslims places of worship in their countries.. then we might be on some equal footing!

Here is a good intro to (lack of) religious freedom in Saudi Arabia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Saudi_Arabia

I am sure that any Shari'a court in SA will provide full due process rights to any infidel charged with a "crime". The executioner will be fully "professional" and not even show you the scimitar he will be using to behead you with after you are sentenced. The occasional sounds of sword sharpening ought not disturb your testimony since it only enhances your right to a speedy trial. You might have your life sparred by allah the most merciful, the most forgiving but only if you "submit" to Allah, inshallah enchilada, burrito and iced tea.

Is he demanding a trial for those dudes that added the 3 extra (non Danish) cartoons of Mohammed?

Let these Islamo Fascist Fanatics rave on-despite
our gutless Dhimmi leaders,the ordinary people are catching on FAST! Their anger bubbles and boils like a cauldron with a tightly closed lid.
Sooner rather than later a sea of Non Muslim protest will burst forth and remove the potential
Murders & Destroyers of our Civilization from our lands...

This is called chutzpah! :-)

Spencer: "A trial. Of non-Muslims in a non-Muslim country. A trial according to Islamic law."

And while this outrage proceeds - of Muslims demanding that non-Muslims in other countries, submit to Islamic law, posters here who object to thes aggressive, supremacist demand have to deal with a bunch of Muslim posters coming here and accusing us infidels, living in our own western lands, according to our own western (i.e. non-Islamic) laws, of "persecuting" Muslims worldwide, by objecting to their imposition of their laws upon us, free westerners and infidels, living in free western, non-islamic countries.

What fucking hubris. Are any westerners threatening to kill Muslims in the west for what Muslims in Islamic countries routinely print in their papers? Namely cartoons that portray Jews and other infidels as pigs and cattle? No. Civilized people in the west do no such thing. We are not invading by the millions into Muslim countries and announcing as we do so "Christianity shall dominate and shall not be dominated". Westerners are not threatening to kill Muslims living in the west, as Iran has done: "we don't like the cartoons published in the Egyptian press but we blame the Saudi's for it so any Saudi citizens in the west - BEWARE! You are fair game for our murderous Christian and Jewish mobs because of the insulting cartoons about Jews and Christians published in an Egyptian newspaper!"

Who the hell do these Muslims think they are? And then they have the damned nerve when western infidels protest against this hubris of Muslims trying to enforce westerners to abide by Islamic law even when they live in the west - to accuse us westerners of aggression against Islam?!

It is entirely clear to any sane person who the aggressor is here. Westerners HAVE NOT immigrated 20 million plus strong and growing (through large reproductive rates financed by gullible European westerners themselves) into Islamic countries, announcing that western (Christian) immigrants shall dominate while simultaneously our own western heads of state issue warnings and threats against Muslim newspaper editors and writers and cartoonists - living in their own Muslim countries! Abide by our Christian laws you Jordanian cartoonists or else we will kill you or any other Jordanians found in our western territories!

Of course Muslims could claim that we had the damn nerve to take out Saddam Hussein. Bad us! You're right! After all I've learned about Islam since and about the Muslim mentality, I can honestly say - Take him back! Bring back Saddam! You get the leaders you deserve! You keep Saddam Hussein and we'll keep our freedom of the press. Fine by me!

More about Saudi notions of justice...

http://www.amnesty.ca/SaudiArabia/4.php

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE230222000?open&of=ENG-SAU

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi/report.html

http://www.omdurman.org/sharia.html

And my almost-daily post...please circulate widely, email to a newspaper near you, etc...

The Koran says that disbelievers (non-Muslims): are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (Christians and/or Jews are) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); (idolaters are) unclean (9:28); “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); liars/they lie (2:10, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11) “losers” (7:179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), in false pride and schism (38:2), the lowest of the low (95:4-6).

Attention Any Democrat Reading This Blog!

This post alone could be the key for your party to win back the Presidency and leadership in general. Muster up the courage to take a real stand against Saudi Arabia. Stop with the charade. Stop bantering with Prince Bandar. Stop calling them our friends and allies. Stop taking their bribes.

Why will this work?

* Allows you to get your wacky base energized, since taking a stand against Saudi Arabia will excite the nutty protestor with his HALLIBURTON-with-a-red-X-through-it poster in his closet.

* Energize the left-leaning centrists who don't believe Bush and his oil ties/riches will every have the courage to focus on alternative fuel sources.

* Energize the right-leaning centrists "tough on terror" base that re-elected Bush by focusing on posts like these and the lack of "liberty and freedom" in the Kingdom.

* Energize all Jihadwatch readers.

Those will add up to a victory, not to mention helping to save our world.

The only thing that will suffer is your political leaders' pockets.

Does anyone in your party have what it takes?

Archimedes,

As always, I get a lot of pleasure reading your posts. I have copied your email, which was an excellent concise composition. I am looking for a concise compilation of Koranic/Haidth/Sira versus that are used to justify terror/jihad. In addition, I would also love those versus which Shiva posted about the booty being good for you to take in the case in raped and captured infidel women. Are there such concise listings anywhere?

When you read the Koran, you simply cannot remember all of it. Right now I am about to finish reading the Koran and have not had much time to post. I plan to really the hadith next. After I finish all three works, I will read the bible again for refreshers.

I have found a great deal on line, but nothing is encapsulated like what you have written. Do you know of a very good source for such works? I want to email them to all of my friends. All of them are starting to grow increasingly weary of Islam. Fewer and fewer still think it’s a religion of peace, but there are still many.

Demanding a trial is good idea. I'm going to demand a trial, for the Islamic woman who condemned her stepdaughter to a life like this:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/Fatima.htm

"Where is the world with all its agencies and organizations? Is there only freedom of expression when it involves insults to Muslims?

One word for him..
Idiot.

If their countries allowed western media in more often they would clearly see the insults to all kinds of groups and individuals throughout western media. Toughen up already!

Archimedes,

Wonderful links in your post above. I found this article linked to the fourth one:

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/book_on_women/chapter2.html

Read under the title, "Brutalizing Dissident Women".

"According to a 'religious' decree, virgin women prisoners must be raped before their execution, 'lest they go to paradise.'"

Read it all.

There should be no freedom of expression for Islamists who pratice their cult of death. We see what happens whenever they "express" themselves.

I can't help but wonder if these brash and exaggerated public outcries are just a cover for something else.

We should all be on our guard right now.

Archimedes:

Re your posting at 4:38 -- I'm trying to choose my epithet (a variant of "Choose your Poison").

Would you know if that's "Losers" with a capital "L" (they way the kids do it with thumb and forefinger held up on their forehead to make an "L")?

Or would you say the Koran intends the kindlier nuance of meaning for "loser" as in, you know, "He worked hard all his life, but didn't have a nickel to show for it, poor guy ... what a loser"?

Until I'm sure about which "loser" is intended here, I'm leaning towards "miscreant" ... it does sound rather creative! ... oops, I just looked it up in the dictionary -- not such a nice word really.

I'd better stick with "ape" ... at least these genetic first cousins of humans never threaten to blow-up non-apes who don't accept their chimpma (a variation of dogma).

So, ape it is! Move over Flo, Fifi and Goblin ... do you think Jane Goodall could study me too?

l just seen news about the real big protest in Montreal only a few hundred islmaofacist showed,but most importanly a counter protest for freedom of the press! way to go Montreal!

OT: i came across this Hindu site

http://hinduunity.org/

its a bit militant, but its kind of like a "jihadwatch" , except written from a Hindu perspective. now bearing in mind that they are regularly attacked in the Indian subcontinent, its a bit , shall we say, more militant , than Jwatch.

but i thought i'd point it out so that folks on here can get a perspective on Muslim jihad through the eyes of some Indian Hindus.

worth a read anyway, so that Jwatchers can get a broader picture of whats going on in the world. (day to day Muslim attacks in India are rarely noticed in the West, unless its a really big one)

may i add to the above post - note the links to pro-israel sites on the left hand side (scroll down, near the bottom)

Seems as if attacks by Muslims just brings out the pro-israel in everyone, no matter what their religion or nationality.

major islamist attacks in india , post 9/11 up to 2004.
jeez - there's a LOT

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/kpsgill/2003/chapter7.htm

Jen,

LOL. I think it means "loser" in almost every sense of the word. The type of school-yard social psychology we see in kids' behaviour isn't that far removed from Mohammd's tactics. I think Mohammad/Allah meant they were losers of everything, because they'd be (a) going to hell and (b) possibly lose everything in this life as well. By referring to them in this way, Mohammad was building upon the total demonization of the enemy disbelievers.

This word "loser" tends to be used in the Pickthall and Shakir translations. Yusufali translates this as "those who will perish." Another variation on this is "their works will perish" because Allah does not accept the good works of non-Muslims; they have to be believers for the good works to be accepted in Allah's judgement.

and here's what happened when the Hindus attacked back - a report on the Gujarat massacres

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/04/30/india3885.htm

sobering reading. and i hope its not a premonition of what might happen in Europe in the wake of some terrorist attack.

What a paradoxical irony , lets hold the trial and use the Saudi courts to expose the injustice when either the "Cartoons" won't be allowed as evidence , or will be shown during the trial and ergo...negate the claim the Islam forbids any images of Muhammed in public.

* Here's a part of a report about a Muslim protest in Toronto Canada ( why 32 million people are being punished and blamed for the cartoons I'll never know) , the article has the standard gutless appeasement of western mindsets .
The Police were there to watch the crowd of Muslims that chanted the usual anti-Israel and USA tripe , but note that it was a "Pro-Free speach" supporter that was grabbed by the Police and taken away for a perceived Anti-Islam comments.
And the real kicker is that while the violence has a direct link to Muslims and Islam,the solution in Canada seems to be that 32 million non-Muslims must be endoctrined with anti-Islamophobia sensitivity to counter the hurt "Feelings" of about 300,000 Muslims that chose to live in the West and in Canada.
************************************************

Dateline: Toronto,Canada

While the protest was peaceful, leaders of many Muslim groups in Montreal urged their members not to participate in the protest because they feared it would turn violent. Instead, they opened mosques to the public.
The protesters also decided to stay away from the nearby Danish consulate to diminish the chances of violence. Jazeri, eyeing about 50 people held a counter-protest on the other side of the street in favour of freedom of speech, added: "I advise all my brothers to keep calm and not respond to provocations."
About 25 police officers kept a watch over the protest and arrested a man who was shouting profanities against Islam.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

kamala,

WHile i agree with some of your points it's silly to direct this at democrats. THis is not a partisan issue. Who has been buddy-buddy with the Saudis all along? Our republican president, his father, Reagan etc... Both Democratic and Republican leaders have kissed the Saudi ass for years and blocked efforts to make us less dependant on oil in general (though i do applaud the president's recent recognition that we have to diversify away from oil). Maybe if people had listened to the tree-huggers before oil hit 70$ a barrel we wouldn't even need the Saudis. The problem is oil. If we didn't need the Saudis we could bomb the crap out of them too but they have us by the balls because WE NEED THEIR OIL. Short-sighted leadership from both parties has put us here. This partisan in-fighting is just as short-sighted.

It must be somewhere here,a comment i have made to one of the articles a few days ago,i`ve said it then and i`ll say it again:
Appologies will not be enough,they will demand the cartoonists to be handed over to be executed,shariah-style.
If the cartoonists were handed over,(unlikely but not alltogether impossible),within a month the muslim barbarians will demand that all pork products be banned throughout the world.
If we cved in to this ridiculous demand of theirs(unlikeley but not 100% impossible),within less than a month they would demand that alcohol be banned and burqas for women.
Today is the 11th of March,2006,a Saturday.
I have marked these comments in a personal notebook and i am ready to bet anyone that if we give in now,all of the above will come true,in less than ONE YEAR.

fatnun,

Of course you're right that it's non-partisan.

I just thought though that since the Democrats need to come up with *something* to win, they might be more motivated to pick a different course. The Republicans--I think--don't have any compelling to reason to change course.

Nothing has helped our cause more than the great Koranic Flush, and now the great cartoon riots.

Keep it up! Please, Keep it up!

So, if they have a trial, and they swear on the Koran, and the Koran sanctions lying, then the entire trial is based on deceit.

Heads implode.

Next case.

(Gavel crack!)

Kafir Nonbeliever,

When I first read the Koran, I cut-and-pasted a lot of material, sorting it into categories as I went. I now have a file with website links and verses categorized according to subject matter. I collected this material from a skeptic's site...you may be familiar with this?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

This site is valuable because everything is categorized already; and it's fairly encapsulated already. It is still necessary to check the verses against other translations, which can be done here:

http://al-islam.org/quran/

The Koran can be deceptive, because the meaning isn't always obvious, and sometimes when it seems obvious, it means something different. This is where tafsir comes in. Tafsir (or tafseer) is necessary to understand the meaning (the historical context is also sometimes given). One of the most respected is Ibn Kathir's classical work, which is available online, though there are others.

http://www.tafsir.com/

Kathir was unapologetic and makes no effort to tone down the Koran's bellicose rhetoric, e.g.,

Verse 48:28, http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=48&tid=49630

...which Kathir titles as

"The Good News that Muslims will conquer the Known World, and ultimately the Entire World..."

You can find some articles that contain a good survey of citations. A general article which touches on the many problems with Mohammad is here
http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/ProphetCartoons.htm

Another article which deals with Jihad is here http://www.islam-watch.org/MAsghar/SuicideBombInIslam.htm

I have added some material in the comments section for that SuicideBomb article.

There are at least 164 verses of jihad.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html

Further references and discussion of Jihad in the Hadith and Sira can be found here.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/JenniferKing50710.htm

and here http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jihad

Regarding rape of women captives, the Koran allows Muslim men to take girl-slaves for sex. (23:1-6, 33:50-52, 4:24, 70:30)
Abul Kasem’s article covers many of these issues, on sex with captives, Mohammad’s sex with Aisha, etc. http://www.islamreview.com/articles/sexinislam.htm

The Hadiths are a morass; a swamp. There's too much material, all of it badly organized, despite the headings. I have read some of them with the guidance of respected tafsir, i.e., the relevant reports are often cited in comprehensive tafsir such as Kathir's.

Hadiths (Sunni)
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/

The Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim collections are generally considered most valid in Sunni Islam.

And then there is the Sira.

Sira (of Ibn Ishaq, abbreviated version)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sira/index.htm

The camel humpers don't have enough intelligence
to realize their own ignorance which is directly
related to their lack of 'freedom of speech.'

Anything they think or think they know,is limited
to what their murderous, uneducated, camel-cuddling leaders tell them.

Their inept leaders know that Christians are not
hateful or despicable such as themselves and that is one reason why they behave as they do.

We don't do any 'sword rattling' so with their
7th century mind-set they think we are a simple
push-over.

Isabella,

Thanks for that; I just went through it. Gruesome. Islam is truly the worst concoction in the history of humankind.

Archimedes,

Thank you very very much. You are a gentleman and a scholar!

It's amazing how little of that you can glean from a back to back read of the Koran. It's also astounding how predicatable it is after having read the history of Mohammed (Plenty Bomb Uniforms Hammas). The Koran reads rather like the bible however.

We've an excess of trial lawyers in America. maybe a few could go out on loan to these muzlim lands since demands for trials are so high out there....
/sarc off

Yes there should be a trial:

Denmark should put this despicable 'Abu Laban' and his cohorts on trial for incitement and sue his ass off for the damages he caused.
After a 30 year jail-term he can then be exported (in a box of his choice) to whichever desert that will have him.

Internment and deportations, NOW!

PS:

I forgot to add: Abu Laban is the 'Islamic cleric' who is behind all this.

Until an all out street fight happens......these Muslims will continue to think they are powerful.

Archimedes,

I've been thinking about this all night long. What kind of a sick bastard condemns someone for a crime that somebody else committed? Some pig rapes a woman so that SHE can't go to heaven?

I wonder if the trolls would like to take a crack at that one. No, anything that tells what's really going on in their religion of human sacrifice to Satan and they skidaddle down the road.

Nothing surprises me about these savages. http://www.islamundressed.com - Islam = Jihad, Jihad = War, War = Deception …therefore; Islam = Deception.

Hi Guys,

Commenting back on "Posted by: archduke at February 11, 2006 06:03 PM"

Well first of all I would like to explain the sample site you have picked up is not a representation of Indian or Hindus behaviour. If we had that behaviour, then inspite of being ruled by Muslims and their atrocities(which you can imagine considering what they are today, what do u expect them 50 to 500 years back) at the time of Independence we wouldnt have chosen to be a Secular and democratic country.
On the other hand there was a country created on the name of religion PAKISTAN...

What happened in Gujrat/ India is not supported by Hindu masses, which you can very well see, that a Sikh is a Prime Minister and a Muslim is a President.
We are not against Islam or anyone. Live and Let live, but these Muslims have double standards, they want to have a everything on name of democracy and secularism and still are involved in terroorist activities or support those on name of Allah.
Western people have started seeing the bad side of Jihad and Muslim fanatism now, we have witnessed for so many decades.
I have mentioned it earlier too that they have schools which they call "Madrasas" where they teach kids from the age of 4 to age of 18.. just Quran, how can you expect such a person to have any sense of rationality when he is 18.
They have always killed us terrorised us to have a seperate state on the name or religion. How can you ask a seperate state from a democracy on name of religion. Think if tomorrow all muslims in USA starts asking a seperate state on name of religion, doesnt it suck... but thats how their thinking is. They are fanatic people with only one objective in life, ALLAH. I would hope if they grow up and we have a better place to live in this world without threat.

They dont understand one simple thing,
Religion is a private and personal thing and you cannot impose on others, everyone has a right to choose what he or she wants.

I live in North America and think these countries have provided a platform for the best people across the world to come and use it to develop and grow. These countries are best democracies and with the least discrimination. But still these Muslims think that they are being discriminated here, then why dont they return to their native lands, if they donot agree to western culture and beliefs.

I think the current events are just an eye opener for the west towards Muslim fanatism and double standards.

RE: Maybe if people had listened to the tree-huggers......

You can't be serious, the tree huggers are a BIG part of the problem as they have blocked nuclear technolgy and energy exploration here in the USA.
We have enough shale-oil in the Utah and surrounding states to be energy independent.

But why would investors back such endeavors when
tree huggers block their actions via courts and lawsuits???????? They can't predict the outcome and the risk is to high thanks to those moroons.

"Speakers can get carried away, but they are just flowery words. I don't take them on board and others shouldn't."

In other words they wanna take the cartoons seriously, but not the Islamic threats.

In the meantime Buy Danish Products.

I personally recommend Nordic House Danevang Macaroons .

For those seeking a better understanding of
jihad, courtesy of Hindu scholars:

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/jihad/

other informative books using Muslim sources that should be read as well..

Let's be open minded, after all, we're not bigots and racists here, are we?

This sounds like a good development in Saudi Arabia -- Hey! Maybe this democracy thing is really catching on -- Let's not jump to any conclusions as to the outcome of such a trial -- these fellows may find the cartoonists "NOT GUILTY" after all!

Why do the posters here always jump to the conclusion that a bunch of Imams in the epicenter of Islam, in the heart of the Saudi "Kingdom", where the most virulent hatred is nurtured, magnified, promulgated, agitated, and financed through the bottomless pocketbook of the Saudi "Royal" family, why jump to the conclusion that these said Imams in the heart of this said Islamic "Kingdom" will find the infidel cartoonists guilty? Let's keep an open mind!

Kafir Non believer,
Archimedes gave you some good information. I would suggest some simple steps for anyone starting to study this proble. Get a good translation of the Koran and put the chapters (suras) in chronological order. If you get the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, he gives the considered chronological order in the Arabic titles at the top. You DO NOT have to be able t read Arabic to decipher the order. Also a good biography of Muhammad is very useful, as you can see where he is coming from in many of his "revelations." An excellent book that give a lot of insight into jihad from the beginning to the end is Andrew G. Bostom's book, "The Legacy of Jihad." The great thing about it, is that he cites many Muslim scholars, and give evidence that they can not refute. Also, Robert Spencer's book, "The Politically Incorrect Guide to ISLAM" is worth the investment in time and money.

Enjoy,
Woodrock

The world has already put the cartoons on trial. And "we the jury," find these cartoons, Funny as all get out!!!