Well, I have offended our new masters, Mr. Cooper. I published the cartoons here yesterday. You are welcome to come and carry me off to Guantanamo. "US sides with Muslims in cartoon dispute,' from Reuters, with thanks to all who sent this in:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Washington on Friday condemned caricatures in European newspapers of the Prophet Mohammad, siding with Muslims who are outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion.By inserting itself into a dispute that has become a lightning rod for anti-European sentiment across the Muslim world, the United States could help its own battered image among Muslims.
"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question. "We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."
"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices," he added.
So, cartoons are the problem, not the threats of violence openly displayed on signs carried by British Muslims, bombings, threats of murder in retaliation, attacks of foreign governments on principles of free speech, and the ominous implications for the future in Europe or whereever there exist a significant Muslim population.
No, offensive cartoons are the problem.
When one is impaled by fear absolute insanity seems to be contagious.
Let's blame it all on Bug Bunny.
For the first time in my life I am ashamed to be an American!
This is unacceptable. All hell should break loose. It won't, but it should.
There has to be someone in Congress or in public life to remind the craven State Department of its duties to uphold, and not to undercut, the foundations of this country, and nothing is more foundational than the First Amendment. The statement was disgusting, and of a piece with the disgusting remark of a former President, Clinton, no doubt carelessly intended to please his Arab Muslim hosts, patrons, and check-writers the other day in Qatar.
Senator McCain, Rudolph Giuliani, Tom Tancredo, anyone else (and it should include Democrats as well -- not least Hilary Clinton who owes us a public rebuke of her husband, this time for things that are affairs of state, rather than mere country matters.
As far as the sickening cowardice of our Free Press, with all those putatively brave defenders of Press Freedom, those worthy inheritors of Milton's Areopagitica, and John Peter Zenger, and the First Amendment from its Virginia Remonstance glimmer to its present full-fledged adulthood, now being undermined by the obvious pusillanimity of newspaper editors -- there is nothing to be said about them. What a contrast to many in Europe who, after all, are under far more threat because there are far more Muslims present to threaten.
Here's how Mohammad dealt with free speech. Please circulate these links widely.
see http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/free_speech.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/dead_poets.htm
Because the Koran states that Mohammad is an example that (male) believers should emulate (33:21), the killing of critics and satirists of Islam is obligatory.
"By inserting itself into a dispute that has become a lightning rod for anti-European sentiment across the Muslim world, the United States could help its own battered image among Muslims."
This is cynical politics at it's worst. Yeah lets gain brownie points by abandoning free speech and siding with the intolerant Muslims. Disgusting. Dhimmitude at it's finest. Like somehow the Muslims are gonna realise "oh gee , America is our friend, They are not the great Shaytan! Europe is!" I can really see THAT happening! Our Gov't would sell out it's own mother for political expediency! Sideing with Chechens, Bombing the Serbs, Training Afghani "freedom fighters", Etc etc. These are all examples of us siding with Islam at the expense of Westerners or Christians in the name of free oil flow. But in the end This "help" to the Muslims only comes back to haunt us as the Muslims use us then they turn on us down the road after they get what they want.Look at how we tried to help them in Pakistan after the earth quake or the Tsunami did it improve our image to them?? We try to kill terrorists in Pakistan with a missle and then they all riot after we gave them all that aid. Yeah 'hearts and minds' campaigns really work.
All this bru-ha-ha about these cartoons shows to the Western world how immature and stupid Islam and its followers are. If they had made no fuss, by now it would have just died down within the borders of Denmark and now one would have taken any notice.
But NO, Muslims all over the world have to march, threaten,demonstate, burn and do as much damage to everyone else who is not a Muslim. It shows how incompatible Islam is with Secular western society. Its time Muslims left our shores and went to their own Islamic countries. Even the liberals now have second thought with Muslims living in our midst.
I hope the day will come soon when forced repatriations would take place, so that we could live in peace within our boarders without the constant threat of Islamic violence. Islam is not compatible with democracy , common sense and western thought.
a10billr,
I'm not ashamed to be an American. I'm ashamed that people like Kurtis Cooper represent America.
What is the point to all those goddam "boots on the ground" if we are all to succumb at home, or to abandon those in Europe unwilling to go quietly, and willing to put Islam to the test -- a test which its adherents have, in their demonstrations, demands for apologies, recalled ambassadors, widespread economic boycotts, forged cartoons far worse than anything actually printed by the Danish newspaper in question, and concluding with burning of flags, calls for death to anyone who dares to offend the Prophet and Islam, and warnings made both to institutions (the Danish newspaper offices had to be vacated) and indeed to anyone defending the right of Free Speech.
Bush had better speak about this State Department remark. And he had better apologize -but not to any Muslims or Muslim group. The American State Department, and the American government, now owe an apology to the American people.
We are waiting.
Hugh,
I'm afraid that we'll be waiting a very long time for that apology.
"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices,"
At what about the respect for the danish people who supports US with their blood i Iraq!!! This is how you betray your friends in a time of need! Maybe they dont care but the danish people will forever see this as pure backstapping!
From a very frustrated and tired dane who just last a war...
With all due respect it looks like Al-Reuters has put there own spin on a statement made by one State dept employee.The headline that the State Dept sides with Muslims was supplied by Al-Reuters not the State dept. From reading the article Kurtis Cooper (who I've never heard of) responded to a question about the cartoons.His response was rather general and lukewarm to me he mentions freedom of the press,tolerence,Muslim offense ect ect. It amounts to throwing Muslims a bone as nothing anyone says will appease them.Bush haters may even be inspired to publish the cartoons if they believe the State dept is against that.
I posted my letter to State Department here, and a portrait of Mohammad here
I hope you like. It is nice.
I sent the following to Tom Tancredo:
Since writing to my own representatives, in both Congress and the Senate, is virtually useless I've chosen to contact you. Mr Kurtis Cooper's remarks on behalf of the State Department, as well as those of Mr Clinton, regarding the Danish cartoons and the ensuing Muslim furor were extremely ill advised. The United States, in the form of the US State Department, and Mr. Clinton, should be reprimanded for siding with the anti free speech forces. I would draw your attention to the cartoons run in the arab press ridiculing the US, Christians and Jews. Recently a Palestinian claymation show for children depicted Jews being transformed into pigs and apes. Kindly note, this viewpoint is described in the Qu'ran and the Hadith and is a belief of mainstream Islam. For the muslims to now cry foul is disingenuous at best and hypocritical at worst. For representatives of the USA to abet their cries of indignity is ignorent and borders on giving comfort to those who wish us harm, both overtly and covertly. Please request a formal and public apology from them. Thank you for your time
Ignorant atheist,
Please do not generalize the idiocy of mr. cooper and his half-witted string-pullers in the State Department, to all Americans. Most Americans are on your side. If President Bush does not reel in, and correct, this state department idiocy, I, for one, will not vote republican in the next presidential election. Its that simple.
Sorry, Mr. Cooper but America has already offended the Muslim world. Why? Well, the Supreme Court building already has a STATUE of Muhammad located at the north frieze. Notice that Muhammad appears before "Equity".
Oh snap, son.
Ignorant Atheist.
I've already sent a blistering email to the State Department, and will be calling on the White House to support freedom of speech.
I also think we should get oil contracts with the new conservative Canadian government, FAST.
F THIS!!! Washington condems?! Bullshit! My Gov't sure as hell does not represent my feeling on this. How dare they even say anything at all, they should have at the very least kept silent. Someone else from out country's govt needs to stand up and tell Cooper to STFU!!
The response of our government is despicable. I remind you all that this is an administration that does not like satire, cartoons or anything "offensive". FREE SPEECH IS ABOUT THE ABILITY TO BE OFFENSIVE! In light of this, why then does it surprise you we would get such a Dhimmi response. The Bushies are not great supporters of the first amendment whether it is pornography at issue, or politically satire.
See: Bush fury at the Onion (satire on line)
http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-5913057.html
What angers me is that the left is equally obnoxious. The DEMS in the US may at times prefer free speech when it suits them, but their silence here is SICKENINGLY deafening. Where are the opposition congressmen that are criticizing the response of Moslems?
Perhaps they dare not "offend" the "peaceful religion" of some "developing" nations.
Why can't either party get this? Free speech is fundamental to our civilization. Without it, we cannot ever hope of defeating tyranny.
When they call upon us to respect all religious beliefs, my jaw drops in disbelief.
If the Indians were to revive the Thuggee sect, would we be obliged to respect it?
Should we show deference to human sacrifice if the Aztecs reappear?
How about Scientology? I'm supposed to think Tom Cruise is sane?
The religion of honor killings and cartoon fury must first earn respect.
Since officials like Kurtis Cooper take an oath to uphold the US Constitution (including the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech and the press) and since the US policy claims to be committed to these principles, Cooper should be fired immediately.
I just wonder if he's related to Ibrahim Cooper?
Did Grover Norquist get him his job at the State Department?
Maybe someone can rent some billboards in Washington DC and put these cartoons on them along with a message "Support Freedom of Speech".
Holy shimoly! Look at that "image of Muhammud" on the Supreme court freise! I bet dollars to doughnuts if the Muslims ever found out about this they would demand it be removed or defaced. Also notice he has a SWORD in his hand!! LOLOLOLOL! How sweet is that! I, actually in order to embarress the Dhimmi Arshen suggest we make Cair and other Muslim groups aware of this Blasphemy! Let the D.C. Dhimmis sweat for a change.
he's only a state department "spokesman" , whatever that is.
its not exactly Donald Rumsfeld or Cheney is it?
the headline is very misleading.
i think the LACK of statements from Bush and his cabinet says a heck of a lot more. well, they cant exactly come out in favour , what with Pakistan being a "ally" - or Saudi supplying oil - that would be reckless... better to just say nothing.
I don't get any thrill out of publicly denigrating someone else's personal beliefs. Most people posting here probably feel the same way. But most of us know what the issue is here. It is the attempted subjugation of Western society to Moslem mores. This is simply not acceptable.
For the first time in a while, French and German individuals have taken a public stand for Western values, currently under attack by hysterical Moslem reaction. The French and German media stood by their Danish colleagues and told Moslem critics that threats, ranting and bullying were not acceptable. The French and the Germans did the right thing. The US government also should have done the right thing and stood beside the Europeans in this matter.
The present tack adopted by the State Department betrays a wistful attempt to mollify a Moslem world that shows a woeful lack of gratitude. For instance, the US-led intervention in Kosovo to protect Moslems from predations by the Serbs seems now to have been forgotten and in any case 9/11 happened anyway in spite of this effort. What makes anyone in the State Department think that the Ummah will understand the courtesy that is being offered to them by these words of respect. Indeed, the Ummah will simply take it as their due, further fueling calls to curtail free speech, further eroding the West.
Mr. Cooper needs to read Mr. Ibn Warriq.
If the State Department or Muslims for that matter ever condemned the rampant incitement for religious and ethnic hatreds in the Muslim world, perhaps they'd be worth listening to. But given the near complete silence from both constituencies regarding the acidic and ubiquitous Muslim bigotry from around the world, and even here in the US, they prove their opinions don't warrant any respect.
I am sickened to find our tax dollars used in such a pandering and doomed to fail manner -- I am infuriated that our blind State Department continues to subscribe to the bankrupt notion that the "hearts and minds" of Muslims can ever be "won" -- It will never happen.
Also, such pronouncements only increase Muslim contempt for us... First because we have caved so completely to their temper tantrums and immature demands... And second, because our capitulation will only cause them to have more outbursts, demand more curtailments, and undermine our system while empowering theirs for nearly no effort on their part...
Think of it... We spend trillions in oil purchases, and billions in aid, and worst of all, expend thousands of precious vibrant hopeful heroic American lives to try and bring them out of their sewer of darkness, backwardness and horror, and the publishing of 12 cartoons, and a couple protests later, we are more reviled and hated than ever...
Aid to Pakistan is a waste.
Aid to "Palestine" is a waste.
Tolerance of their intolerance only whets their appetites for more terrorism and violence.
In short -- we pay for everything -- in blood, treasure, and loss of rights -- and they win everything by barely lifting a finger -- Why wouldn't they infer that we are weak, and they are worthy? We behave as if these things are true -- that we are weak and they are worthy of respect just because they're Muslims -- and this, despite all the evidence that we are strong, and Islam and Arab culture is little more than a rotten cadaver, putrifying the planet with its corruption and decay ...
Time to take out the trash -- time to flush the sewer -- and STOP pouring our blood and treasure down into the festering slum of Arabdom and Islam...
"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsiblity." from State Department statement.
Responsibility? Where does the word responsiblity appear in the 1st Amendment? It's freedom of speech Cooper, not freedom of responsible speech. Sucking up to the Muslims will not change the image of the US with fanatical, sadistic, death wishing zombies.
Hello Americans
Thank you for your support. I am fully aware that Foggy Bottom doesn't speak for most
Americans and I hope that my country will continue to support America.
I understand that your government is in a precarious position with thousands of military servicemen on the ground in Iraq.
Another reason for the silence might be the administration's insistance on framing the conflict narrowly as a struggle against radical Islam.
Islam's attitude regarding freedom of expression is an indictment of the neocon policy for regime change with an Islamic face. Someone remember Afghanistan where an editor was sentenced for questioning shariah law?
PS -- Our State Department acts as if winning Muslim "hearts and minds" would be a great prize, worthy of endless effort and sacrifice -- It is anything but... Winning the "hearts and minds" of Muslims is probably the worst possible thing we can do -- propping up the dead corpse of Arab culture and Islam is suicidal for us...
Less Islam worldwide! = GOOD
Fewer Muslims in our land! = GOOD
Weaker Islam = GOOD
I just sent an email of protest to the State Dept. I suggest that everyone who is disgusted by tthe DOS cave-in do the same, and urge others to do so.
The State Dept. site isn't very user-friendly, but go to:
http://www.state.gov/
Hit the "contact us" button, and keep following the links. You have to select one of their pre-set topics; I chose "Human Rights."
May they be flooded by emails, faxes, etc. in protest.
Roxanne, if what you say about Mr. Cooper is true then he was taken out of context, he needs to get on television and explain his statement himself. he should not have said anything to the mainstream media. By making any kind of statement in his position at the State Department, everything he says would be construed as being offically from the Bush Administration. Condoleeza Rice should also make plain the official position of the Bush State Department.
If Mr. Cooper was acting as a loose cannon then he needs to be censered. If true, he was very irresponsible in his duty to our country and he owes the country a big apology.
If al-Reuters errored in their responsiblity, they owe the American people an apology. But I won't hold my breathe. The leftists in the mainstream media never admit when they're wrong. It's always somebody elses fault or their intention were good. The left can be wrong but never wrong because they meant to be right. In order to understand the last line, you'd have to be a leftist or understand the leftist mentality.
It's obvious that you do Roxane. If the Bush Administration comes out against the cartoons, the leftists just might print them to spite the President. Lets hope for that to happen.
Igor saw the posting. I hope for the Muslim boycott to begin any time now. Now lets see how CAIR handles this afront to the pedophile false prophet!!! I'm on pins and needles on this one.
Curtis isn't the only Foggy Bottom flak talking bosh: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1576795
By inserting itself into a dispute that has become a lightning rod for anti-European sentiment across the Muslim world, the United States could help its own battered image among Muslims.
I know that's not a betrayal on the level of Spain and France but God do I feel ashamed.
Now, thanks to American dhimmitude the western world and western civilization will fall.
^^^^ Stupid sentence, isn't it? I agree, it is stupid.
The stance of the State Department is completely irrelevant. The newspapers that published the cartoons couldn't care less about what the American State Department has to say about this issue, and neither does the Muslim community.
"Death to America" will still be shouted in Teheran on a regular basis, so what's the point?
Only two (good) things come out of this whole mess:
1) Many politicians and diplomats are still incredibly short-sighted regarding the Islamic menace
2) Having the pleasure of watching the Europe-bashers from that side of the Atlantic eating humble pie, for a change
It doesn't happen that often these days, but I am presently EXTREMELY PROUD of being European.
I think the coward thats behind this support for censorship needs to learn a little from the people that founded the US. Because he is in the process of giving up freedom in order to gain (temporary) security, and he is helping the fanatics in their attempt to force it on us as well.
If the republicans don`t stand up on this issue,i will never vote for them again,in my life.
"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression, but it must be coupled with responsiblity." from State Department statement.
Then by making this statement, does he recommending censoring the NY Times, the SF Chronicle or the Washington Post? They have not shown very much "responsibility" with their editorials while the country is at war.
No surprising coming from the State Department. The American State Department had no problem ignoring American children still left in Saudi Arabia and their American mothers who want to see their children. It is all about Saudi money and the kick backs they give our Politicians when they leave office. The State Department is coming out doing their typical SAUDI DAMAGE CONTROL.
I see protests coming soon on the American streets of Washington D.C.
3 state Dept flaks have made statements;Cooper
and janelle Hironimus and j. Higgins..thyis s***
has come from condi Rice, dollars to donuts..
"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims," State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said when queried about the furore sparked by the cartoons which first appeared in a Danish newspaper..."
This is a veiled attempt to warn U.S. newspapers not to print the cartoons..the State Dept fools
should at the least have kept their festering gobs SHUT!!
My venting to the the Department of State
Customer - 02/03/2006 03:58 PM
The intolerance and religious hatred does not come from those that printed those ridiculous cartoons. It comes from those that seek to abridge freedom of speech and the press in the self-interest of their religion.
I find the State Department statements of appeasement about these cartoons highly offensive as freedom loving American. You people in the
State Department should read the Constitution once in a while and stop trying to apease the so called religion of peace. The outrageous and
violent reaction of those "true believers" to cartoons might clue you in to where the real problems in this world come from.
Thank you for letting me vent.
Auto-Response - 02/03/2006 03:58 PM
Title: What does the State Department do?
Link:
To every american here...
Im of course aware that americans in general are supporting Denmark... Im only pissed at the spokesman... I salute all you guys for sticking up for the danish people when she needs you the most! Best wishes from a danish
The acts of arson in Alabama remain a mystery, of course. But, this appears not to be racially motivated, since both black and white churches were burned. A crazed anti-Christian arsonist seems to be on the loose.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/03/alabama.churchfires/index.html
And if cartoons are to blame for this, will the State Department blame it on the Danes?
Send them your comments here
http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/home.php
thats a dane not a danish... At least I hope Im not..
..just you wight, professor 'iggins, just you wight..
JTF..i saw that an American flag was torched inside one of the churches as a start point..
From an extremely bitter anti-American post above who seems to take great delight in seeing America "eating humble pie" (Sounds like a Muslim, no?):
"It doesn't happen that often these days, but I am presently EXTREMELY PROUD of being European."
Give it a day or two -- it will pass...
Ironman Hondo,From the link that was supplied to the AP story these look like State dept talking points to me with Al-Reuters and the AP putting there own spin on the story. Al-Reuters headline says State dept sides with Muslims while AP says State dept says cartoons offensive. In the AP story the quotes come from Janelle Hironimius who's described as a state dept press officer.What's interesting is that Janelle uses almost the exact same wording as Kurtis Cooper.The statements amount to three lukewarm talking points on the cartoon "controversy" from what appear to be two low level State Dept employees.Kurtis Cooper and Janelle Hironimius hardly rise to the level of Bill Clinton.
Mr. Cooper's telephone number at the State Department is: 202 647-3560
I think this isn't dhimmithude. The US has over 100.000 troops in Iraq en Afganistan, while a significant portion of America's oil comes from S-A.
No-one in the administration wants to put that at risk because of some simple cartoons.
But this IS a futile attempt to ease the emotions. The American administration clearly doesn't understand what is really going on and haven't yet accepted the fact that this will continue to escalate regardless of their statements.
CNS-
Thanks for the link.
I just sent a white hot letter to the State Dapartment on the subject of lickspittle Cooper advising that the State Department should not hire people who do not uphold the Constitution, or will betray our allies like the valiant Danes for mere momentary (and illusory) p.c. convenience.
I demanded that Cooper be fired for this shameless pandering to radical Islamicists and then sent to take a course in Constitutional Law since he clearly has no concept of what country he lives in or what our freedoms mean.
Spineless mealy-mouthed weasel.
"Responsible" my ass.
Imagine if Patrick Henry had said:
"Give me liberty, as long as it doesn't offend anybody."
(Is that Bill Clinton's saxophone of surrender I hear playing an off-key version of the O'Jay's "Backstabber" in the backround?)
Ivan, I love your cartoon! Is the cowboy version an indictment of the USA? I am afraid the British gov lack balls as well - see Jack the Straw's pathetic sermon today!
This is a disgusting betrayl. Instead of staunchly defending a small, brave ally and the Western tradition of free speech it's so fearlessly championing, freedom of speech already under assault within Europe thanks to "religous vilification" laws and statutes against "racial incitement" eagerly put forward by that continent's craven, neo-feudal elites, our State Department betrays not only that ally, but also the fundamental principles of our Constitution and our country.
And for what? Instead of securing a temporary protective reprieve for our own troops and homeland, this cowardly, shameful act will only invite more attacks, and earn us only more contempt from the Muslim world (and rightfully so). For doesn't this sickening act in fact validate bin Laden's wildest fantasies? That while in the past it took the complete conquest and subjugation of a land in order to impose the yoke of dhimmitude on its people, now Western man, despite his stealth bombers and nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers, can be cowed into humiliating submission by a tiny vangaurd of believers?
The over-educated idiots who infest and head our State Department, who analyze the issues in our newspapers, journals, and on TV, still cannot wrap their brains around what the point of Islamic militancy is. It is not about "hatred of freedom", or "totalitarianism". It is about dhimmitude, and the need to restore the Muslim man to his rightful place at the pinnacle of creation. This groveling, revulting display of cowardice is the same as a call for a general retreat.
Instead of wasting your fury on the State Dept.'s website I urge every American citizen reading this to write their congressman, who DO listen to signed letters with return addresses within their district.
Remember when the US State Department tried to frame an African American Colonel for mass murder, and tried to get the death penalty for him?
The head of the State Department should be sacked, just like the last one.
Islamic Beheading is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic TERRORISM is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic MURDER is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic GENOCIDE is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic RAPE CAMPAIGNS is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS AND THE REST OF THE WORLD..
Islamic LIES is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic TREACHERY is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS
Islamic HATRED OF JEWS is an INSULT TO ALL AMERICANS AND JEWS..
So until the muslims Repent of their crimes
I really DONT CARE what they FEEL...
http://www.jimgoism.blogspot.com
JSLA wrote:
"From an extremely bitter anti-American post above who seems to take great delight in seeing America "eating humble pie" (Sounds like a Muslim, no?):"
I didn't say I liked America eating humble pie (you must have a reading disability). I said that it gave me great joy to see SOME Americans eating humble pie. Guess who I was specifically targeting, Einstein?
Are we instituting a new State religion? Is there going to be an Imam installed into the White House?
Where were his comments about the Christ image with Bin Laden's face? Where were his comments about "Piss Christ?"
The White House needs to get of bed with the Saudis and start acting like American representatives.
Not I, my squalid Portuguese Friend... No humble pie here, not now, and not ever... That's much more up your ally -- oh ye self proclaimed "It doesn't happen that often these days, but I am presently EXTREMELY PROUD of being European."
Again and again, just like the Muslim, we see a bitter, America hating lowlife, roiling in the dirt and chortling with glee at some imagined American misdeed... Jumping for joy at the slightest opportunity to celebrate a perceived American misstep...
Isn't there some kind of eurotrash filter we can toggle on to separate out the Europeans who are so filled with jealous impotent bile from those who want to fight the Jihad along with the brave Americans?
Hi guys, please read the following till its end:
First of all, I'd like to tell you that I'm a Muslim but let's discuss it in objectivity and read it before being biased.
For us - Muslims - being boycotting all the Danish goods as a respond to the mock of our Prophet that are said to be irrelevant to the newspaper, I can respond to you by saying that newspapers of a country represent its culture in general or the majority of its people, so it was a natural response that anyone - including you - would do if we mocked your beliefs.
Another thing, I think you should respect our religion because we don't offend anyone, besides, religion is a relationship between someone with God, then why mocking even though you believe we are wrong (which I believe we are not)? We don't offend Christianity, Jewish or any others although we don't agree with them because as I said it is a relationship between someone with God, why do we interfere?
About saying "Since when did Muhammad become above criticism?", simply, because we believe him being a prophet sent by God, he can't be criticized because God inspires the prophets He sends so - in my opinion - any criticism to any prophet is a criticism to God. For those who don't believe that Muhammad is a prophet, they're free, but don't offend him because we believe that he is because if the case was reversed (we mocked on your beliefs), you would say that we are stupid and don't respects others beliefs.
Others say: "It is alright if the Muslims to remark that the Holy Bible is currupted, and Jesus is not the Son of God and only a Prophet,inferior to Mohamed.. Christians should keep quiet for such nonsense.", we don't mock Jesus, in contrary, we DO respect and really love him (and I don't tell that to calm you but that's the real truth and ask any muslim) but I don't deny that we tell that Jesus isn't the son of God and we believe in that but there's nothing offensive here, we don't mock, this is like what you're saying about our prophet that he is a lie and our Quraan was written by a Jew, we never reacted about that but offending is something different.
Some of you tell us to bycott their countries by bycotting their cars, telephones ... etc that were invented by them, well, you actually had the ability to do it by our science that was brought to you in the first place, so it's YOU who sould stop using Mathematics, physics and many others. For you to bycott our oil, believe or not, we'll be much pleased than you do because you use it to EXPRESS YOU FREEDOM BY KILLING US even the children.
You say that Islam was spread by the sword! How come? How can a person keep on Islam until he's dead? Was the sword on his neck all that time, and what about his children and grand-children. No one would keep on a religion until he's dead unless he's convinced with it.
And guys, please reply to SayWhatYouSay's questions in http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009920.php and please be rational and take it seriously - not just attacking because it was said by a Muslim.
Look who are speaking? The Americans and Europeans who support Israel for killing Palestinians, and conquered Afghanistan, Iraq and warns Iran for having nuclear activities while it has so many nuclear weapons. You kill hundreds every day. You were also those who bombed Japan with a nuclear bomb. You also humiliated the prisoners in "Abu Ghareeb" prison in Iraq. If you want to see their pictures so be brave and hold your breath because you're about to see the most horror movie you may ever see. Check that link: http://us.moheet.com/temp/asra/alboum.asp
As a final word: Please people think rational, don't attack our opinions because we're just Muslims. And let the conversation be handled in a good manner.
"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims," State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said when queried about the furore sparked by the cartoons which first appeared in a Danish newspaper..." Quote S.D.
I happen to agree with his statement above. So, I can't get too upset here.
The followers of islam are in conflict with our laws, requesting us to stop the cartoons in any way. This is against the first amendment, any halting of it requires major destruction of our laws.
Mr. Higgins was using his free right to speak, and hopefully others will see this. And I am sure he has seen others using theirs as well.
HG,
Here is the RoP®
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Carolyn2:
Thanks for your calm reply. I respect this kind of civilized conversation.
When the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq (and supporting others to) we didn't say that it's "Christian-terrorism" (Really consider that). It's your government who wants to deliver this picture about us to hate us.
Why when a Muslim troop does such things you say it is the Islamic-terrorism(like RoP®)? Shall we consider the US wars against us "Christian-terrorism"?
When Mc'Vay (I don't know if I am spelling his name correctly) when he bombed the Federal Building in the U.S was not called a Christian-terrorist by the Muslim media? or why the Muslim media did not commercialized the statement
"Christianity-terrorism" although he was a white Christian?
We did the bycott for offending our prophet, if that was against the freedom of speech, then why there was these outrages statements and anger from the Jews, Americans and Europeans when the Irani President Said the Holocaust never existed? isn't that a freedom of speech?
As a final word, you're examining just one side, meaning that you want to see Islam in this picture to be satisfied, why don't you try to explore Islam to have a fair judgment? We condemn such acts too. In war time, Islam prohibits killing women and children, what do you think about peace time?
The State Dept does it again.
Although Cooper and the Hieronymus woman are low level, I have no doubt that they represent the top level of the Dept., that is, Condi and the others on the policy-making echelon. Maybe Condi and the rest of the top level functionaries didn't want to be embarassed by saying these things themselves in person, so they gave the job to some low level flunkies, possibly in order to warn the American press to NOT stand with the European press. But the words are authentically State Dept mainstream.
If the State Dept were really in favor of religious tolerance, then they would be raising hell with Egypt over treatment of the Coptic minority. If they didn't like offensive cartoons, then they would long ago have complained about the Judeophobic cartoons in the Arab press, which are usually much more violent than the rather tame cartoons published in Jyllands Posten. So the State Dept is the same old State Dept that so many JW/DW posters have grown fond of over the years. Maybe some of the Congress can be induced to protest against the State Dept.
Eliyahu,
"... they would be raising hell with Egypt over treatment of the Coptic minority ..."
I'm a Muslim Egyptian and I don't see what you're talking about seriously, not just arguing.
As I said, your government wants to mislead you, they wanted to enter Iraq so they came up with this nuclear weapon story!!!!! Did they find any till now??? Now they're paving the way to do the same with Egypt, so they want you to believe in this. You might find many websites talking about this pseudo-discrimination in Egypt which of course isn't made by Egyptian Christians.
Please be a fair judge, not because you're an American you should agree with them.
from splendid post above -- another in situ example of the retardation of thought caused by Islam in the Muslim mind:
"Some of you tell us to bycott their countries by bycotting their cars, telephones ... etc that were invented by them, well, you actually had the ability to do it by our science that was brought to you in the first place, so it's YOU who sould stop using Mathematics, physics and many others."
The typical Muslim above needs to brush up a little on history, factual timelines, and the truth...
Once again we see a smug deluded Muslim liar illustrating the arrogance and triumphalism of his vile creed. Despite all the undeniable evidence that he comes from the most backward and ignorant of cultures, from the most blood stained and evil "religions", and from a country which has become such a disgusting sewer of degradation, filth, ignorance, disease, corruption, violence, oppression, repression, intolerance, death and horrors that one might never understand how Egypt, once so proud, once first among nations -- one might never understand why Egypt has fallen so low and so far unless one begins to understand the poisonous so-called "religion" of Islam..
See how he arrogantly claims that which he has no right to claim -- that Muslims "invented" mathematics, science, and physics -- How insane -- how utterly stupid! -- how repugnant! How incredible! And yet, we see it here again and again -- so how typically Muslim of him!
Didn't Pythagoras, my poor Muslim child, live fully 1,000 years before the birth of your nightmare "prophet", that filth stained illiterate desert begger named "Muhammad" -- the same ignorant, child rapist, thief, murderer, liar, and insane vagabond. How could Islam or Muslims for that matter contribute in the slightest to this great genius? Don't be so silly, you ignorant empty Muslim bubblehead.
How about Archimedes, my pathetic Muslim slave... He lived 700 years before your fluid stained "prophet". He had no Islam to cloud or taint his world -- he needed no imaginary Muslim "contributions" to come up with his mechanistic and scientific inventions and theories...
There are countless other examples... Islam's contributions to humanity are slim to none, oh pious Muslim! Face reality.
You, and all Muslim prevaricators, reveal a staggering delusional conceit with such monumentally stupid claims as those above... Try to quiet your fevered brain for a moment -- perhaps you could allow some portion of truth and reality to seep into your Islam-drenched brain -- You are clearly poisoned with Islam's delusions of itself, you are poisoned by the desperate notion of your own superiority because you are a Muslim. Haven't you yet noticed how preposterous and inane you really are...?
Your "religion" is filth and lies. Your beliefs are filth and lies. Your comments are filth and lies... What does that make you? Clearly, a Muslim.
jsla,
The conversation was polite before you came in and act as an ignorant.
Please educate yourself and have a book to read.
I don't have the time to search for resources to prove that we did so many advancements in such fields but here are some links from Wikipedia, please read the history section in the following websites:
Glasses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasses
Zero: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_%28number%29
Algorithm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm
Logarithm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
Trignometry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trignometry
Algebra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra
Your numerals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
Why are you so upset? Was I mean to somebody? Muslims respect and LOVE Jesus, why don't you just leave our prophet alone and don't insult him?
Finally, please be polite when speaking about the prophet at least.
Sometimes "please" just doesn't cut it.
Be polite when referring to "that filth stained illiterate desert begger named "Muhammad" -- the ignorant, child rapist, thief, murderer, liar, and insane vagabond?"
Why would I do that?
By the way, Muslim liar -- i went to your first link about "glasses"... Guess what, Muslim liar -- there's no mention whatsoever about Islam, Muslim or anything of the kind... What an inane lazy Muslim you are! Liar too!
I encourage everyone to follow that link and see if you're even the slightest bit honest -- which you aren't.
Please develop a brain which is capable of incisiveness, or open to facts, rather than the bizarre Islamic supremacist propaganda you've consumed since you were born or perverted to Islam!
Thanks for being here, and illustrating what we're dealing with when we deal with the Muslims! And my points above are completely unchallenged... Your posts are full of little more than lies and prevarications...
By the way -- what exactly is impolite about labelling your so-called prophet
A Liar?
A Theif?
A Rapist?
A Murderer?
A Child Rapist?
An Illiterate?
or
A Desert Vagabond?
By the evidence of your own Muslim "scholars" in the sura and haditha, as well as the Koran itself -- that execrable fiend did or was all of the above. But that's far from the full list -- he was many other grotesque and ugly things as well...
Slave trader...
Mass murderer...
Wife stealer...
Delusional schizophrenic...
Drunkard...
Premature ejaculator...
Obsessive complusive...
Bipolar psychotic...
Sadist...
Maniac...
I could go on an on, oh Muslim thrall -- THIS is the so called "prophet" you revere and worship --
A pig -- a monster -- a fiend -- a beast -- an evil evil man...
HG,
Please answer these questions, thank you.
If Islam never offended any religion, why is it that I have seen a number of anti-Jewish pictures in the Arab newspapers?
If Islam never offended any religion, why is it that it took hostage a shrine dear to Christians the world over?
If Islam never offended any religion, why was it that a number of satutes of the Buddha were distroyed?
If Islam never offended any religion, why is it the there is still a conflict over some land in northern India called the Kashmer?
And no runaround please!
jsla,
I won't return you with insults (even though I can) because I am much more civilized person than you, I converse politely and I expect you to be so in return. If you think that I am affected by such insults, then you're right, I am really sad because you're humiliating our prophet. But I'm not like you ... I won't accuse all Americans that they're all rude like you.
About the Glasses thing, quoted from Wikipedia :"The identity of the original inventor is unknown, although a possible source is the Arabs", I thought you can read. By the way, what about the other links?
bigcatgirl13106,
Before starting I'd like to tell you there're many bad things done by Muslims such as the 9/11 disaster which I totally disagree with, but that doesn't mean Islam orders to do so.
*"anti-Jewish": I don't know, do you mean the religion itself or the people? The Arabs do mock Jewish people because of many things, if you want details please ask and I will, there many reasons, but shortly, they're our enemies. I don't think we never mock their religion because it's quoted in the Quraan that we shouldn't mock any religion.
*"took hostage a shrine dear to Christians the world over": I didn't really understand the question, can you rephrase it? But anyways, as I told you before, a Muslim doesn't represent Islam meaning that not because you saw some Muslims killing people means that Islam orders them to do so. The US armies attacked Iraq and until now they didn't find the nuclear weapons, we didn't say that the Christians are terrorists. I wish you understand me.
*"a number of satutes of the Buddha were distroyed": I really don't know such incident but please refer to my previous answer.
*"there is still a conflict over some land in northern India called the Kashmer": I think that it is something political between Pakistan and India. Nothing to do with any religion.
I really tried to be clear and forward.
A question to you: If you argued (face to face) with someone (non-Christian) and insulted Jesus (take jsla's list for example), what will your reaction be?
Thank you
HG,
You can claim "those who act evil are not real Muslims" all you want, it means nothing when it becomes a WORLD WIDE PHENOMINA! We have a military saying, "Once is an accident, Twice is a concidence, Three times is enemy action." do you understand? If 9-11 was an isolated incident i could put it off as an Anomaly. But I have read the news about Muslims for 10 years now. It seems to me the whole Muslim world has "risen up" against well.....basically everyone else! Not just jews, not just Americans, EVERYONE! I shall go down the list (it will be LONG!) 1st Bhuddhists: They behead Bhuddhists (the most pacifist people) in Thailand, they Slay them in Malaya, Always in the name of Islam and killing "polythesists". 2nd Sikhs In North Iddia they have been massacreing Sikhs since time Immemorial, again always as per Allah edict of making the world "submit" to Islam. 3rd Hindus, Jains, Bahais and other Indian religions. The list of atrocitoes against Indians is TOO LONG to list here. Suffice to say Kashmir is a trouble spot right now. But what about Pakistan? only 25 years ago it had a 20% Non-Muslim population but now it is 3%. Why? they were driven out or killed or forced converted. The Hindu-Islamic trouble started with the "muhgal" Invasion when the Muslims tried to force all of India under Islamic domination and has been going on ever since.
3rd Asian religion of Confusionism, Taoism, and others. A lot of Chinese have immigrated to Muslims coutries in S-E Asia like Singapore, Indonesia etc. Althought they are not massacred their religious practices are supressed or outright forbidden! Muslims Expect Europe and US to repect their religion but when "infidels" live in Muslim countries they are Oppressed and trodden down as second class "dhimmis" and denied citizenship. Why this hypocracy??? 4th PAGANISM (primative anmist religions of Africa, Asia and East russia) These are the people who have probably suffered the most under Islam. With basically Mohammud (and Allah) saying they are not a "protected" (dhimmi people) they are literally enslaved, wiped out (genocide) or forced to convert to Islam. Once Islam reached "pagan" africa the suffering of the "blacks" of africa has been Unparrelled in all history! Even to this day Mauritania, Sierra leone, and other Muslims african countries practice slavery on the black "pagan" africans!! All with the blessings of allah and his false prophet Mohammud. I will gloss over the suffering of other "pagans" in east Russia and elsewhere suffice to say it was the same story! 5Th Zoasterians. This was the "original" religion of Persia. (iran) originally all of Iran was Zoasterian (100%) now it is about 1%!! Why? They were forced to covert or where killed or driven off to other places like India, Africa, China etc. Ask any Zoastrian about their suffering and persecution under "tolerent, enlightened" Muslim rule!!!! 6th JEWS, well Suffice to say they were one of Mohammuds FIRST VICTIMS! While Hindus and Bhuddhists were killed by later leaders Mohammud himself Killed jews by the boatload. Now of course all Muslims say it was because the Jews were "treacherous" and betrayed him, which is probably true in some cases, a lot of people opposed Mohammeds genocidal movement! But there are many examples of Jews being killed by Mohammud for no other reason then to take their money land and women. Though i will admit the Islamic record on Jews has been mixed (until 1948 that is) Some times they were treated well other times they were not! But lets not talk ancient history, lets talk post 1948. Since the founding of the state of Isreal the Muslims have had nothing but contempt for Jews. Now maybe their anger was justified against "isrealis" but they would abuse innocent jews in their own countries as a substitute for the jews of palestine. So in 1948 many Persian and Yemeni and Syrian jews were arrrested and massacred even though they had nothing to do with the state of Isreal!! So basically all the jews of the middle east have had to flee because of the opression of the gov'ts of the countries in which they lived.
6th and lastly CHRISTIANITY, boy this was a long post ;) . At one time The whole "levant" of the middle east and of Egypt and N. Africa were almost 100% Christian. Where are they now? wiped out. Or in such a dimminished quantity they are a shadow of what they once were. And in some cases we are not talking 1000 years ago, were are talking 80 years ago! (i.e. The massacre of Armenians in Turkey and the Balkans orthodox)
Slowly and surly by the sword the Muslims have been wiping out whole nations of Christians! And those who were left were severly disabused! look and the Jannasaries! They Mulims always had their eye on making all of europe Islamic. and they actually made great progress. As far as france and austria in various invasions. It was only with the wests 'rennaisance' and final military supramacy that brought about a halt to the expansion. but as late as 1912 the Muslims had a hold of Christian Europe, and even to this day they have a toe hold in Europ in Istanbul!!!! Muslims always complain about two things, the "crusades" and "western imperialsm". Like this was all the white mans evil fault. HA! they did the same to us and much worse. First off the crusades was a "reaction" to the massacre of christians and the conquest of their lands. if the reverse was true, say that Christians were taking Muslims land in Arabia, would not all the Muslims around the world come to thier aid? Whew! I wanna say more but this post is damn long! Im gonna leave it at that. This has nothing to do with cartoons, this truly is a clash of civilisations. but guess whos going to win? people who have everything? or people who have sand?
MataMoros,
First to tell you, I am sorry I can't reply right now, I will reply later because your message is too long and I have a big project to do this year and I can't leave my team mates because they're going to meat but I promise I will reply.
Commenting on "who's going to win?", I KNOW we will, I don't mean for now, I mean generally in the future, and I'll tell you why in my next message.
I'll try to reply tomorrow.
MataMoros,
Excellent posting. Said what needs to be said.Could'nt have said better.
HG,
Maybe these should be able to refresh your memory.
The church that was taken hostage was the Church of the Nativity in 2002. It lasted a couple of weeks and it was left in a mess when that incident ended.
The Buddhas that were distroyed were the Buddhas in Afganistan. There was a big protest on that distruction.
The ongoing war between Hindu India and Muslim Packastan on the Kashmier area.
Look for any online copies of those Arab newspapers or the archieved ones showing those anti-Jewish pictures. They are there. If they are not mocking, I do not know what is.
To answer your question, I would say, God loves you and tell them about the life of Jesus.
I hope your memory has been refreshed.
hg,
since you are an Egyptian, tell me by what right Egyptian TV, movies, newspapers, al-Azhar clerics, govt ministers, etc. smear the Jews, including our religious practices. How about the lie that Jews bake blood in matstot? Your govt had films made for TV [especially for Ramadan] that smeared us as both a people and religion, lying about our religious practices, etc.
Furthermore, we have accounts published more than 200 years ago, before Napoleon came to Egypt, about how both Jews and Christians were oppressed, persecuted, and humiliated there [check out Carsten Niebuhr]. For the 19th century check out Edward Lane. How can you be so aware of what happens and has happened in your country?
Believe me that all Muslims condemn such acts by other Muslims.
"We have a military saying, "Once is an accident, Twice is a concidence, Three times is enemy action." "
I agree with you that there's an enemy and they're Muslims not Islam as Islam refuses that.
About the percentages in the past and now of the number of non-Muslims, why do you claim that they were forced? can anyone force MILLIONS to be Muslims? I believe they were convinced by Islam. By the way, I currently making my graduate project with Muslims and Christians.
About "crusades ... they did the same to us", also AlQaeda did so many terrorism actions against us in the 90s (Muslims against Muslims?).
Eliyahu, we don't mock religion, we mock Jews, please mention one of these films. Don't you guys mock on Muslims in your films?!!!!!
For us as Muslims, if we considered your activities against us as "Christianity is a religion of terrorism" so I think you'll win from the US attacks against the Arabs but after all we don't accuse the religion.
Why do I know that we will win? Because it was mentioned by our prophet and we believe in him.
How can I judge on Christianity? By watching Christians? Or by reading the Bible? You too, don't judge on Islam by watching Muslims, read the Quraan.
I recommend you to search about the Quraan's miracles as I don't know all of them and they'll be explained better in specialized sites. If these miracles are true, then how come it was "created" by a "normal person" for about 1400 years ago?!!!!! Please don't be biased, I once exclaimed about where the truth is, is it really in Islam? And I searched and read, and finally I settled on Islam. Be aware that your choice today will affect your afterworld - the next life.
Here are some sites talking about the Quraan's miracles:
http://www.55a.net/firas/english/index.php
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com
At last, I want to tell you that I am sorry, I might not be able to come back again (I have a project to make for graduating). Thank you and please think hard.
I reiterate: What's insulting about saying the false "prophet" of Islam was
A Liar?
A Theif?
A Rapist?
A Murderer?
A Child Rapist?
An Illiterate?
A Desert Vagabond?
Or saying that he was a
Slave trader...
Mass murderer...
Wife stealer...
Delusional schizophrenic...
Drunkard...
Premature ejaculator...
Bipolar psychotic...
Sadist...
Maniac...
Am I missing something? Of course, a couple of these are a little subjective and rely on modern psychological diagnostics -- but they are certainly fair speculation -- Delusional schizophrenic...Bipolar psychotic...
This desert bum kept having "revelations" which, post facto, justified his bizarre antisocial behavior... This illiterate desert vagabond imagined he had talks with the devil -- but didn't know it at first (the satanic verses which were later expunged from the Koran, but which the desert thief at first mistook to be more "revelations from God" --Now I ask you, beloved reader... what kind of lame ass "prophet" mistakes the words of Satan for the words of God!? So apparently he was a delusional schizophrenic with a tin ear as well...) This filthy savage was paranoid. This deranged maniac brutal. He was a complete sociopath...
When a Muslim says "we don't insult your prophet Jesus, why do you insult our "prophet"? He is attempting to make a morally equivalent comparison between his so-called prophet who was a thief, rapist, murderer, liar, genocidal maniac, insane lunatic, wife stealer, child rapist, illiterate ignorant unclean desert bum, and the prophet of Christianity who represented none of these horrible things, did none of these horrible things, and was none of these horrible things... By comparing your murderous false "prophet" of Islam with the icon of Christianity, what worse insult could you make than that, you unclean satanic idolator!
Sorry about a mistake in the last line of my previous post. The word "aware" should have been "unaware."
The line below is correct:
--How can you be so unaware of what happens and has happened in your country?
You're right, jsla, it's not really possible to insult a low-down dog like Mohammed. But we've gotta do all that we can.
KORAN-BY-KORAN PAGE-BY-PAGE HADITH-BY-HADITH PAGE-BY-PAGE SIRAT-BY-
To do my part in this epochal worldwide struggle, I keep a box cutter and the Islamic Holy Scriptures in my bathroom. Sometimes I itch real bad, but I'm proud to say that only a couple dozen pages remain in my Noble Koran. Bur real itchy, real scratchy. Sometimes doing this routine makes me as itchy as the Scowling Moslem is bitchy, y'know? Getting twitchy too.