'The day is coming when British Muslims form a state within a state'

Isn't that happening already? Parts of French cities are openly controlled by muslim clerics and following sharia law.

For those Avengers fans, of which I am one, there is an episode called The town of no return. In it, an enemy state infiltrates the country by taking over one town, then another, then another. This is what is happening in Britain as well as the rest of Europe.

The Avengers forsaw the future.

Votaire
Infidel Avengers must clear the enemy out of all infiltrated towns...Let the bastards be surrounded by pigs,pelted with Pork Pies, and rounded up by by every patriotic dog[there are millions] in Britain. Confronted by haram creatures these head hackers & bomb freaks will
flee shrieking to nearest point of departure
from United Kingdom.

By and large, Dr Sookhdeo (an unusual name for someone who was once a Muslim) consistently nails it, but towards the end of the article, he makes the same mistake that the believers in moderate Muslims make:

"You have to distinguish between ordinary Muslims and their self-appointed leaders," explains Dr Sookhdeo. "I agree that the best hope for our collective future is that the majority of Muslims who have grown up here have accepted the secular nature of the British state and society, the division between religion and politics, and the importance of allowing people to choose freely how they will live.

Given that Dr Sookhdeo was once a Muslim and knows what the requirements are from Islam

"For example, one of the fundamental notions of a secular society is the moral importance of freedom, of individual choice. But in Islam, choice is not allowable: there cannot be free choice about whether to choose or reject any of the fundamental aspects of the religion, because they are all divinely ordained. God has laid down the law, and man must obey.",

Dr Sookhdeo seems to know better, since he switched away from Islam early. That is what he should be advocating, "Do what I did, not what I (just) said".

50 people killed by Islamogoons in London, and a year later you have an Islam-Expo celebrating how wonderful Muslims are. I think you're a lost cause like the rest of the western world.
Besides, Brit's are more concerned about football than politics.

Somewhat OT:reading about Dr Sookhdeo, I recall seeing Guyana and Mozambique listed as members of the OIC. While I take Wikipedia info with the due pinch of salt, Guyana's top religions are listed there as follows:

Christianity: 50%
Hinduism: 35%
Islam: 10%

In Mozambique, Islam still doesn't have even a plurality - it's 15-20%, as opposed to 20-30% for Christianity.

So can anyone confirm whether these 2 countries are OIC members?

Great article in a major paper, but many other Brit. papers are pandering to moslems, pc pretty, anti-american and anti-israeli, and the resolve required to face the detiorating situation is absent in the population as a whole, and in the government.
The major mistake of many of our leaders is not to appreciate that they, their society is the prey, the aggressor is islam; they do not accept islam as the enemy; it has to be 'radical islamists'.
And Blair, like so many western leaders govermental, church and other, know nothing about islam, and are unfit thus to lead.
The Pope, interestingly, understands.

Sheer Islamic arrogance.

Britain's leaders do not have any idea about Islam and its negative effects on the rest of the British population. Its time they took an in depth look at what is taking place. The Muslims are a fifth column within the UK; not at all loyal or accepting of secular British values.
Their loyalty first and foremost lies with Islam and its 7th century evil ideology. They are totally brain washed and devoid of rational thinking. Its time to ban all foreign clerics and so called Muslim teachers such as Tariq Ramadan whom even Dr. Sookhdeo describes as a radical, another is the friend of mayor Livingstone the so called "Dr" Qaradavi, a deviant, horrible human being.
The UK is the Islamic terror capitol of Europe. The Government has been 'pussy footing' all these years, all the while these savages preached their hate and allowed more and more Muslims into the country , while appeasing them at every opportunity.

Its time to get rid of them for the sake of the future of Britain. If they are so unhappy in UK, they should be asked to leave. All these newspaper polls are not accurate in the least as Muslims lie to westerners when it is convenient. There is an Islamic teaching called taqiyya. Taqiyya means deception or concealing and disguising one’s beliefs and intentions to fool the adversary. According to Muhammad all forbidden things become permissible if they are to be used for the advancement of Islam. So Muslims can lie, steal, murder and rape with complete clear conscience because t hey are convinced of doing the right thing.

Heading such as these in the daily papers is fair warning:

'The day is coming when British Muslims form a state within a state'
By Alasdair Palmer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia219.xml

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml

That was the most depressing article I've read all week, and that's saying a lot.

The Pope, interestingly, understands.

Posted by: dby

The catholic church seems to be the biggest suckers for the Muhammedan's. Whether they 'understand' (I hate that word) or not, they don't take a stand and it would surprise me if they did.

faqi sez:

"...The UK is the Islamic terror capitol of Europe. The Government has been 'pussy footing' all these years, all the while these savages preached their hate and allowed more and more Muslims into the country , while appeasing them at every opportunity.

Its time to get rid of them for the sake of the future of Britain. If they are so unhappy in UK, they should be asked to leave. All these newspaper polls are not accurate in the least as Muslims lie to westerners when it is convenient. .."

The Europeans neglected to teach history, their JC history to (how many?) generations of their young people. Those who have no history or hold their history in contempt are condemned to repeat it. Now the chickens are coming home to roost: We have Governments without leaders, socialism has become a bottomless, parasitic pit, we have been breeding hapless BLair's and Straw's, Livingstones, Galloways' who were elected on Muzzie votes, and a furious, half-educated indigenous population who doesn't know where to look because nobody taught them about Islam and the captain left the ship while a storm was brewing.

Interesting times for Europe!

The content does indeed have the potential to depress but it is not telling those of us who read hear regularly (or live in an area of high Islamic population) anything we don't already know. Where it is hopeful is that national newspapers are speaking so vehemently, at last (not just the Telegraph, the Sunday Mirror, a much more populist paper carries the results from the same poll).

Secondly it is a sign of hope that these "interesting times" have produced someone like Dr Sookhedo and his colleagues at the Barnabas Fund and the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity who have the knowledge and courage to speak these unpalatable truths. I have heard him speak, albeit briefly, and he is very impressive.

There is another Christian writer on Islam coming to speak at my church tonight. I will be interested to hear whether he agrees, and if not his reasons why he differs.

The DT has been tactically sound in not publishing the cartoons. It is now becoming clear that just re- publishing the cartoons would have been a sign of mere bravado. Instead the DT has responded with a series of articles that is breaking the taboo over the subject of islam in the West.

As I've said since 9/11 and in fact for two decades before that - islam and infidels cannot live side by side.

Patrick Sookhdeo advises the government to ignore the imams and talk to ordinary muslims. Tactically right but it wont work as the mosque will continue to hold the majority of mulsims in its grasp. Besides they will claim the authority of the koran and denounce the "moderates" as traitors to islam.

10 years? it is so already.

A friend sent a description of the Islamic bank with main shopping area in the suburb that looks like some 3rd world cesspit with spit all over the pavement, pigeons, litter, kebab smell, women covered up stating men can't control their primal lusts which is borne out by testimony from married western women getting sexual advances as well as stared at all the time by paki' men who are often married too, and do not understand the word "no" or "no, I am married".

Moslems who want to integrate have no where to go and there is much fear in their community in case another bomb goes off because they know their prosperous future in this country will become untenable. Mothers in one region, when polled, stated their greatest fear was if one of their children became a suicide bomber.

No where to go is a failing all round. The moslems who do "revise" the koran to the modern world have few leaders and no ability to stand up against the "radical islamists". The Church is busy preparing for Dhimmitude rather than saying, "look you got some things wrong about God, you are welcome here."

In fact no moslem takes the church seriously because if they reverered their 3 gods they would never give their buildings to be mosques.

Rose,
I recognise they guy now.

I was told that he spoke in Manchester to the church leaders over lunch and "normal" xtians in the evening and that the leaders were very cold towards him while the "normal" folk were very supportive and understood what he was saying.

I interpreted that to mean the leaders understood what he was saying to but were too engrossed in politics and too cowardly to serve God or failing that at leas to serve truth.

perhaps the church leaders need to be bypassed too.

There is this human nature thing called pride and status seems to breed it everywhere, not just in Islam and reality TV.

From The Telegraph:

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

Some three years ago I posted this on LGF, prior to the intervention in Iraq (Note - I was arguing against it).

Demographics will eventually lead to Islamic separatist movements in Europe and America. Primary immigration is now a red herring. It is muslim growth from within, that is the greatest danger. Bradfordistan etc will be the talk of the News media in the coming decades. There is no doubt of this eventuality. It is predictable. One just has to look at the muslim separatist movements around the world. Once a new muslim state is created, non-muslims will be forced out or worse. Muslims in the remainder of the non-muslim state will then continue to increase, till a new separatist demand is made, and so on.

So what are the choices

1. Wage war selectively in the Arab/Muslim world
2. A civil war within the West
3. Expulsion of muslims from the West.
4. Separation of Christendom from dar al islam, followed by an exchange of Muslims populations here, for Christians in Muslim countries.

The first is unlikely to work unless it takes the form of total war. This leads to unimaginable mega-death scenarios, for that is what it takes to change cultural attitudes of a nation (re: Germany and Japan). With Islam it will require much more.

The second is again going to be bloody beyond imagination, besides being totally arbitrary.

The third option is not politically possible. In Bosnia and Kosovo, we made it clear that ethnic cleansing was not going to be tolerated, even though that was the only choice the Serbs had to save their cultural heritage. In effect, we ourselves closed that option for us.

That leaves the fourth option. It is the least expensive in all terms - mortality rates as well economic. This option though not nice and difficult to implement, is still the least expensive and bloody of all.

One must bear in mind that in the event of a really bloody civil war in Europe or America, the victors will exact a heavy price. In effect, if Europeans win, muslims will be expelled anyway. In retaliation, Christians in muslim countries will be slaughtered and the survivors expelled.

Exchange of populations is three birds with one stone. We save ourselves as well as save the remnants of Eastern Christianity. Third, muslim nations, left to their own rapidly exploding populations, unable to get succour from the West, the islamic world will have to ask itself some hard questions about the role of the koran in a modern society. Hoepefully, once that starts, they will be on the way to civilisation, and thus release the 1.2 bn muslims from slavery.

Another plus, is that exchanges of populations, have happened quite often in recent history when cultures are unable un-able to coexist, and are recognised as legal.

In the meantime, as a first step, we have to name the enemy. Then make the practice of islam and its rituals as difficult as possible. Public calls to prayer to be banned, as it invades the public sphere and is also offensive to others.

Immigration to the West has occurred as the West has been friendly to islamic ritual as part of the multi-cultural ethos. We can make the West as muslim un-friendly as possible and hopefully reverse the tide of muslim immigration.

Difficult options all round and we have noone to blame but ourselves, but better we do so now, or else the price may be so high, that even we in the West will not be able to pay the piper.

Some three years ago I posted this on LGF, prior to the intervention in Iraq (Note - I was arguing against it).

Demographics will eventually lead to Islamic separatist movements in Europe and America. Primary immigration is now a red herring. It is muslim growth from within, that is the greatest danger. Bradfordistan etc will be the talk of the News media in the coming decades. There is no doubt of this eventuality. It is predictable. One just has to look at the muslim separatist movements around the world. Once a new muslim state is created, non-muslims will be forced out or worse. Muslims in the remainder of the non-muslim state will then continue to increase, till a new separatist demand is made, and so on.

So what are the choices

1. Wage war selectively in the Arab/Muslim world
2. A civil war within the West
3. Expulsion of muslims from the West.
4. Separation of Christendom from dar al islam, followed by an exchange of Muslims populations here, for Christians in Muslim countries.

The first is unlikely to work unless it takes the form of total war. This leads to unimaginable mega-death scenarios, for that is what it takes to change cultural attitudes of a nation (re: Germany and Japan). With Islam it will require much more.

The second is again going to be bloody beyond imagination, besides being totally arbitrary.

The third option is not politically possible. In Bosnia and Kosovo, we made it clear that ethnic cleansing was not going to be tolerated, even though that was the only choice the Serbs had to save their cultural heritage. In effect, we ourselves closed that option for us.

That leaves the fourth option. It is the least expensive in all terms - mortality rates as well economic. This option though not nice and difficult to implement, is still the least expensive and bloody of all.

One must bear in mind that in the event of a really bloody civil war in Europe or America, the victors will exact a heavy price. In effect, if Europeans win, muslims will be expelled anyway. In retaliation, Christians in muslim countries will be slaughtered and the survivors expelled.

Exchange of populations is three birds with one stone. We save ourselves as well as save the remnants of Eastern Christianity. Third, muslim nations, left to their own rapidly exploding populations, unable to get succour from the West, the islamic world will have to ask itself some hard questions about the role of the koran in a modern society. Hoepefully, once that starts, they will be on the way to civilisation, and thus release the 1.2 bn muslims from slavery.

Another plus, is that exchanges of populations, have happened quite often in recent history when cultures are unable un-able to coexist, and are recognised as legal.

In the meantime, as a first step, we have to name the enemy. Then make the practice of islam and its rituals as difficult as possible. Public calls to prayer to be banned, as it invades the public sphere and is also offensive to others.

Immigration to the West has occurred as the West has been friendly to islamic ritual as part of the multi-cultural ethos. We can make the West as muslim un-friendly as possible and hopefully reverse the tide of muslim immigration.

Difficult options all round and we have no one to blame but ourselves, but better we do so now, or else the price may be so high, that even we in the West will not be able to pay the piper.

Apologies for the double posting

We'll have to form a resistance and create guerrilla groups to force them out.

Corsica is leading the way on that one.

A couple weeks ago in a Marks & Spencer in Bradford, my friend's husband was involved in an altercation with a security guard. The guard attempted to throw him out of the store which didn't go over so well. Turns out this guard had been keeping "whites" out of the store for a good long while and the manager used this opportunity to sack him. Apparently this Marks & Spencer was perceived to belong to the Muslim community. The 1,986,543 most holy site etc. but since this was Bradfordabad, we shouldn't be surprised at all.

Whistling Dixie

Amazing information about M&S in Bradford but entirely predictable, as Bradford is regarded, and has been for many years, as the muslim capitol of Britain.

Any links?

[[Repeat]]

BLOGGING BLAIR

Do we need a fresh new wind behind the British sail?

There is an incalculable threat posed by a rising Islam, which cuts across all of our pre-established ideas on social structure, racism is useless here, as this thing does have a colour on which to identify it, what it does have is a common belief, loyalty to itself and to its heartland in Mecca. Appeasement to it means – that it can more easily surmount one more obstacle, towards the establishment or formation an Islamic State in either all or in parts of the United Kingdom. We have reached the crossroads of keeping this European land under European control or handing it over piece by piece to the Arabs to be ruled under Shar’ia law.

We need a leader with some balls. Someone who will be prepared to offend – the cropped haired female Guardian reader, the segment of society that looks for a ‘cause’ to fix – who doesn’t see that if the Muslims are successful in their bid for power – freeing Britain will be the ‘new cause’. Our new leader must be prepared to offend even the delicate sensibilities of the Muslims – and God knows how sensitive they are! Because what we are proposing will mean undermining their very beliefs.

In the new government there must be some acknowledgement of the Arab, funding and control over the world’s Mosques, and of the message which encourages Muslim citizens of host countries, to place their loyalties not to those countries which host these citizens, but instead towards the shores of the Gulf where Mecca lay.

Is this a strategic and calculated move – to take power or to f**k the west through the back door? For that to be - then we can see how this plan, wish or desire has been blessed in two ways, the rise in power of the Arab ‘proper’ States through the oil wealth [otherwise we simply would not be having this conversation] and the extreme poverty and social upheaval in the Arab ‘lesser’ countries – which leaves its starving and bullet ridden citizens clamoring - en masse - for Europe's shores.

Europe has made the mistake of thinking that because it was given attention – that it was love. Has found that these people are not loyal – and more dangerously each of these new citizens has been fitted with an unthinking and unquestioning adherence to a religion – controlled by a group of Arabs. As this 'Arab Oz' tries to promote itself on par with the truth and a footstep away from God himself, it actively discourages its citizen believers from placing their loyalties in any place other than towards its direction.

With hat in hand and with back bowed our leaders continue to do deals with the Arabs for their oil – even though there is no other money on earth – funding this terrorist war being waged against our cities and our way of life. We need a new leader who can understand that the real price of oil – the ultimate establishment of Islamic rule in our lands – is too much to ask us to pay.

What other group, race or organization can get up on TV and inform the general public that by disobeying their rules, that an attack on the public will then be meted out? If the little brother is making a lot of noise in the play ground and no one goes over to bop him one, then there is either one or more big brothers that would view this action as unfavourable.

It is not for me to rip the curtain veil down from in front of the cycling Arab Oz – but we need a leader who will actively break some of the Arab control over the Muslim people and their Mosques in this European land. A leader prepared to take on the controversial job of controlling Islamic immigration – to ensure that the country remains in European hands and is not handed over to Arab rule, under some sort of Caliphate. To encourage other European countries to do the same; to plug the holes of the open borders, if the immigrant gains entry to one, he will have access to them all.

The Islamic immigrant is like the pawn – which has limited moves – but is made strong by its shear numbers. We are being played, for the control of our countries and so a counter strategy must be formulated. We should openly analyze to word ‘peace’ as it is used by Muslims. To purposely ignore that the Koranic ‘Peace’ is that which is to be achieved through the successful conquering of the non-Islamic world – is to allow the public to be deceived or the reverse to appease Islam. Open acknowledgement that our idea of peace and their (especially the moderates) idea of peace, are from two different sources and are incompatible. We need to find a way of injecting truth into this game – perhaps in the form of open debates – where ideas are no longer kept locked up – in respect of (beliefs which are in direct competition with our own).

This is not going to be comfortable. Expect opposition. But the state of the country - has to be seen in a gardening context - where the trimming of a bush, which is growing out of control and if left will take over the entire garden - should be viewed as necessary and advisable exercise. The civil liberties and the way of life of the country must be placed over, those of Islam who have put their loyalties in a foreign power.

This is going to be a tough job, so we need a leader who will not waiver, as we are all facing the loss of our liberties, at the gentle stroke of a cat’s paw on one hand and the full and merciless nature of the tiger's jaws on the other. The moderates and the radicals of Islam have one and the same aim and that is to establish Islamic rule in Britain – but are disputing among themselves on how best to get there.

If Tony Blair is going to duck and bow at every turn on this issue – then we have to work to take the country out of his and his government's hands in the next election.

DP111:

Excellent analysis. Scenario 1 is the strategy that our ancestors have chosen for more than a thousand years because it seems to be the only one that really works. The operations in Iraq are the first return volleys of the West in that war and there will be several more before the jinn of jihad is once again crammed forcefully back into the bottle to which it was brutally confined by our ancestors and from which it was allowed to escape in the 20th century.

The Telegraph is one of the few European papers that is addressing the problem of Islam in a truthful manner, so we see more articles from this paper on this website than many others. This can lead one to incorrectly assume that things are worse in the UK than elsewhere in Europe. This is not the case: the precedence of Sharia Law in Western Europe will probably be in Sweden, due to its press and Socialist Government's complete unwillingness to look at what it's now facing. Multiculturalism there remains completely unchallenged, though in the UK, France and many other countries, this very damaging form of relativism is finally being questioned in many articles and papers. Sweden is also 10% muslim due to short sighted immigration policies.

However, widespread social unrest will probably first surface in France, Holland and Denmark, due to incidents such as the French Riots, the Deaths of Theo van Gogh and Pim Fontuyn, and the recent cartoon controversy (the last being good from the West's point of view, as the worldwide Islamic reaction hasn't gone unnoticed by the people in Europe or in America), which will continue to happen in the future.

Many American posters here keep referring to Europe collectively, without looking at the differences in the many countries here, and the fact is that despite the EU Parliament, European Governments still have a high level of autonomy. Once widespread unrest (such as the French riots, but more severe in time and space) is seen in one or more countries, then it is most likely that other European countries will begin to act as they should, as the danger will become more apparent to them. Some may not, which will lead to either some or all of those countries becoming Islamized. Thus, this leads me to believe that parts of Europe may be conquered by Islam, but certainly not all. The UK is far behind this process demographically (though the Government is less attuned to the problem as the ones in say, Denmark or Germany).

One thing is sure: once Sweden or another country in Europe installs Sharia Law in part, then that will be the fuse that lights the powder keg. And the earlier this happens the better, as demographically speaking, time is not on our side.

DP111,
Your options 3 and 4 are the ones that need
to be explored. We in the West need to begin discussing the removal of mohammadans now. At
first, those who discuss it will be dismissed as
wild eyed extremists, but the same was true of
anyone who mentioned what a vile religion islam
was a few years ago.

Even if Sweden or some other country goes
Islamic, it doesn't have to stay that way. It
can be invaded and the infestation removed in
any number of ways.

"The DT has been tactically sound in not publishing the cartoons. It is now becoming clear that just re- publishing the cartoons would have been a sign of mere bravado."

DP111

It's not clear to me at all that re-publishing the cartoons is a sign of "mere" bravado. Under the circumstances, when the bases of our civilization are at stake, publishing and re-publishing is a must. It's a drastic test of the viability of our democracies confronted with the challenges of Islam in our midst.

I don't doubt that, in some cases, re-publishing the cartoons was a cynical ploy for getting election votes or mere swggering. Yet the act is inherently necessary and worthy. It's a move on the chess board without which our chances to survive are very slim.

And why would simple solidarity with the Danish cartoonists and newspaper men would be so silly, so "unsophisticated" as a political act? Why do I have the nagging sense that being strategically wise in this matter is actually old, gut-wrenching cowardice? Like valuing your quiet days by the pool and your after-dinner brandy and cigar and rows of leather-bound masters in your library more than some abstract ideal or the fate of Christian communities in the Far East?

How much sophistication can the European elites indulge in before they wake up under the simple-minded--ambiguity-free--Islamic law?

Why has Gary Trudeau been silent, he who has made a career out of political cartoons? (I wouldn't have expected Charlie Schultz to come to the aid of the Danish cartoonists, yet I somehow hope he would have). Could it be that it was safe to satirize Reagan, and the Bushes, and (more mildly) the Clintons, knowing he wouldn't lose a hair over it--on the contray, get the sophisticates' kudos and another promotion/bonus at the Wash Post?

And let's remember the Wash Post was a model of courage after the Watergate affair. We've been led to believe the reporters were risking their very lives. That's why the secret meetings with Deep Throat, and so on.

Maybe so, but I doubt it. You can't match the video of Daniel Pearl's beheading to a hypothetic threat from the establishment in the 70s.

Now the Post is facing a situation in which real courage is needed. And they don't have it. It gives creedence to those who have said all along the Watergate was not about ideals but about circulation and market shares. That would be OK if their story for the media, enhanced by the 2 reporters' successful careers, blessed by the Establishment.

Are we surprised? Its already there in the UK. All the so called associations, societies and the Muslim parliament.

A state of insanity within a state of confusion.

Sounds like a bright future to me.

Requiring a welder's glass to view.

Interesting article -

Dr Patrick Sookhdeo

Tony Blair doesn't know what he is doing with Islam.
......We should be worried that he is literally going to give up control of part or all of the country, to be ruled by Islamic law.
......If he does so he should be held accountable.
......We are subjects under the crown and our Queen.
......And in no way should any part of this land be ceded or given over to be ruled by Islamic law.
......A British Prime Minister does not have the right to give any part of the country away to be run by a foreign law.

I think some of the people who are most afraid - are those who have spent some time in an Islamic country. The practice of Islam is a little frightening there; to a westerner it looks like communism of the religious kind. Though this is normal to these people - you realize that it is not whether these are ‘good’ or ‘bad’ people - it is instead, what they have been programmed to think. The Islamic doctrine blocks out all other knowledge - and while we are taught to be open and accepting - it programs its followers to dismantle or to outright destroy anything which is not the same as itself.

While the PM lives under stricter security, because of the Islamic threat – heck - even the Saudi’s have tanks outsides of their palaces to ward off such attacks, Blair seems to think that he can negotiate with this, mindset – unwittingly offering up our freedoms and our way of life - to religious thugs.
__________________
How much of Islam is Belief and How Much is Fear
__________________
I remember years ago - every once in a while some Islamic cleric or other would get up - and say that 'the women should be dressed better (or more Islamic)'.

The response was that f**in, so and so, talking his crap again and no one cared. But when I put this to someone in an Islamic country and they seemed truly frightened and were surprised that no one paid this Imam/crackpot/religious zealot any mind.

Now with the violence here in Britain, already rules are starting to be enforced - rule number 1) Don’t speak about the prophet. Or we will kill you.

What will be rule number 2) …….Maybe we should all start reciting the Koran.
_________________
Iran
_________________
Do you remember all those Iranians chasing Salman Rushdie?

[He wrote a satire of the fact that - Allah once had 3 daughters – which means that the origins of Islam have nothing to do with Biblical history].
http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/other/articles.html

We mistakenly thought they were just after him.
That this was a 'one off'.
____________
Fatwas
____________
Who will they decide to issue a fatwa against next? Heads of State - this is already taking place in the Islamic world. We thought that we were going to exempt from such violence before ~ for good behaviour ~ we thought we knew best?

We have known for a long time - that they were beating and suppressing their women – emboldened they will then move out into wider society and attempt to beat up and suppress - for political and social gain, as they are already doing in some western countries. In some parts of Australia, for example, the authorities there are being openly threatened by Islamic men. The same in Sweden; when it is that all everyone is trying to do is to help them.
____________
Appeasement
____________
The last time we were talking about appeasement - we were talking about Hitler. The writing is on the wall – but should we leave it entirely up to Tony to see it – is this an issue which is too important to be left in the hands of one man?

This evening's speaker was a scholarly man, of some note although I will not name him.
He was blunt. There was much he had to leave out in a talk that was of necessity brief. But he included the division of the world into Dar al Harb and Dar al Islam ie between land of Islam and everywhere else which is at war until it becomes Islamic. He told us what Muslims say about Christ, that our bible is corrupt but that no Muslim can agree which bits are corrupt, much less explain when and how the corruption occured, or produce an uncorupted or only partly corrupted text. The doctrine of abrogation which means that the earlier verses of peace can be disregarded. And most of all he told us about the violence of Mohammed, that we must make no mistake, he was a capable man, a wily administrator and tactician, but no man of peace. There was a gasp as he detailed the battles in which Mohammed fought personally.
The congregation has gone home knowing that there are no easy answers, and a lot of work (I'll put it mildly) ahead of us. But his advice to us was to learn as much as possible about Islam. The scales are falling from peoples eyes daily. We knew this already. But everybody needs to realise this. Pray it is not too late.

Hulegu Khan

Putting the jinn back in the bottle - I like that.

Are you the same Hulegu on LGF a few years back?

ovidius_naso posted

"The DT has been tactically sound in not publishing the cartoons. It is now becoming clear that just re- publishing the cartoons would have been a sign of mere bravado."

Glad you brought it up as I was'nt sure myself of that statement as I wrote it, and pondered a while before I hit the post button. Re-publishing is the operative word. I'm still not sure whether the DT should have posted the cartoons. On the one hand there is no doubt, and you express that forcefully, that all MSM should have stood up for Freedom of expression. But that did'nt happen. The DT OTH withheld publication of the cartoons but has followed it up with some very serious questions on the very nature of islam in the West by commisioning Rev Sookhdeo, and without getting into the inevitable slanging match of the cartoons. The issues had to be addressed without the emotion of the cartoons hanging over the DT.

Despite all that - you make good points. I wish all major newspapers and TV had stood shoulder to shoulder with Denmark, and then followed it up with a serious and truthful look at islam, its tenets, rituals and practices, which I for one, and almost all on this site, find deeply offensive.

Amicus posted:

Multiculturalism there remains completely unchallenged, though in the UK, France and many other countries, this very damaging form of relativism is finally being questioned in many articles and papers.

Thankfully Multiculturalism is passing away. The head of the commission of Racial Equality, Trevor Phillips, has openly denigrated the concept. It is only the likes of the Police Commisioner Ian Blair who still hasnt got the news.

dvy posted: Great article in a major paper, but many other Brit. papers are pandering to moslems.

Not all. The Times has been forthright in its examination of islam. Ditto The Spectator. That makes two of the most popular serious papers raising questions about islam. In the English speaking world I cannot think anywhere this is happening with such frequency as in Britain. Maybe it is beause we are nearer the abyss, as Amicus noted, but not as near as Sweden.

I'm so fed upwith islam-this-islam that it is unbelievable.

Hi Omvi

I got that information about Corsica from a link that was provided by some-one on another thread. Apparently Corsicans have been torching businesses on the island, and about 200 Moroccan muslim families have moved away.

Omvi, Voltaire

Link is

http://meionline.com/backcover/332.shtml