Abdul Rahman Update. This would be a story for Dhimmi Watch, illuminating as it does Islam's traditional restrictions on freedom of conscience and denigration of other religions, except that the fact that it is happening in Afghanistan shows the deep flaws of the Bush democracy project's failure to come to grips with the realities of Islam and the implications of the attachment to Sharia in Afghanistan -- and Iraq.
From the BBC, with thanks to Tastard:
An Afghan man is being tried in a court in the capital, Kabul, for converting from Islam to Christianity.Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could face the death sentence under Sharia law unless he recants.
He converted 16 years ago as an aid worker helping refugees in Pakistan. His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children....
Afghanistan's post-Taleban constitution is based on Sharia law, and prosecutors in the case says this means Abdul Rahman, whose trial began last Thursday, should be put to death.
When he was arrested last month he was found to be carrying a bible and charged with rejecting Islam which is punishable by death in Afghanistan.
Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah told the BBC that Mr Rahman, 41, would be asked to reconsider his conversion, which he made while working for a Christian aid group in Pakistan.
"We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him," the judge told the BBC on Monday.
If not, we will kill him. How tolerant!
But if he refused to reconvert, then his mental state would be considered first before he was dealt with under Sharia law, the judge added....The Afghan Human Rights Commission has called for a better balance in the judiciary, with fewer judges advocating Sharia law and more judges with a wider legal background.
Several journalists have been prosecuted under blasphemy laws in post-Taleban Afghanistan.
The editor of a women's rights magazine was convicted of insulting Islam and sentenced to death last year - but was later released after an apology and heavy international pressure.
Mr Karzai's office says the president will not intervene in the case.
Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan.
But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country.
Yes, they would probably remain outraged for a day or so, and then decide that Afghanistan with Karzai is preferable to Afghanistan without him, and continue the jizya payments as before.
i want low flying helicopters spraying holy water over afghan villages. a preist can follow close behind, to perform the baptisms.
that ought to freak them out for a while.
http://www.attackcartoons.com
and i want some muslim to explain how "death to the apostates" reconciles with the no compulsion of religion doctrine.
A particularly galling aspect about all of this cruelty and killing perpetrated by Islam is the glaring and complete lack of an explanation (or even token indication of basic comprehension)from the western democracies as to why they continue to tolerate a "religion" that incorporates killing into its ideology--and killing of people outside its orthodoxy!! How is it possible for someone to be wishy-washy about mass murder????
Unfortunately for the western democracies Islam benefits from the western democracies' continued apathy and failure to comfront Islam. The greater our apathy, the closer we edge towards suicide as Islam gears up for more jihad and infiltration. Bur worst of all, the western world's failure to confront Islam and its homicidal elements makes us silent partners (and hypocrites) in Islam's war on humanity. Islam and its culture of killing leave no ethical middle ground. Failure to address and contain its onward march of mass murder has lethal implications for the rest of the world.
Today it is one man in danger for his life. Tomorrow it will be the remainder of humanity.
What is at stake is MUCH more than this one man's life and freedom. This case will form the foundation of Afgan jurisprudence.
This war is against Islamofascism and all its adherents. If we remove Islamists and then replace them with more, we only buy temporary succor from attack, not a long term victory.
I am not alone in this view of the enemy. From the bi-partisan 9-11 commission to Ronald Regan's Sec Def of International Security Policy agree (Frank Gaffney), that we must defeat the Ideology of Islamofascism, not just a collection of terror organizations.
We cannot do that if after we chop one Islamist group down, we allow (and even promote) another to take its place.
There is still time to correct this problem especially in Iraq, but first people need to realize that it IS a problem.
For all intensive purposes, a Christian Country comes to the aid of this war torn country that lives in the 10th century, and a man who believes in the teachings of the New Testament of Jesus Christ could be sentence to death for such a converson and the seated President Karzai looks the other way.
We listen to them whine, and scream death to all us non muslims all over the Islamic world about a few cartoons, while in turn they insult, and denegrate the teachings of Jesus Christ by saying that the New Testament is corrupt.
The western world has been bending over backwards with their blood, and their money for years and we have been doing it so long that I'm not sure we are able to stand up straight and speak out for ourselves anymore.
The appeasement has got to stop, the waste of money and the blood of our young man and women has got to stop, they do not deserve our efforts whatsover.
What do really get out of it all this? And to think, no one in Afghanistan, nor Pakistan has any desire to give up Osama Bin Laden and his cronies.
Yes we have been on a long learning curve and I for one don't blame President Bush for his noble effort to defend this nation from this tyrannical totalitarian Ideology, but it is time to grasp the lessons that are out there for all to see.
OT/
Mr. Spencer and ibn Warraq on "Janet Parschall's America" www.jpamerica.com
There can be no victory in a war in which we refuse to name the enemy.
Trupolitik: The trouble with ALL Islamic countries including Afghanistan is that Islam itself inherently,intrinsically constitutes 'islamofascism'. Islam can therefore NOT be separated from Islamofascism. Thus there really is no such thing as "moderate" Islam as its ideology is all cut from the same cloth since the faith's primary and founding directives are barbaric-- and THAT will be the sole determining factor of all islamized areas of the globe not watered down semi-Islamic jurisprudence. The individual's power in any Islamic society is superceded by the Kuran which rules out any Islamic society from developing any meaningful moderation of Islamic tenets. The USA has yet to face up to this. But it must in order to save itself and the remaining western democracies.
As long as Afghanistan or any other country remains Muslim what we are seeing here will be repeated over and over. Afghanistan's jurisprudence is going to be subverted into hardcore Islam one way or another as long as this country is tethered to the Qur'an. So get over it.
Intolerance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1768274.stm
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=46544&eng=y
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=45578&eng=y
Dave...Afghans are playing on the world monetary market....by selling their opium and heroine worldwide. Still THE largest producer. All those lives and money for what???? Time to pull out and carpet bomb with bunkerbusters.
Is Abdul Rahman the only Christian/Jew/Hindu to be executed in an Islamic nation? Is this something new in Islam? Why are we surprised?
Why did we go into Afghanistan? To bring peace/joy/freedom to them? Or to punish them for 9/11?
Okay, suppose we punished them, got rid of the Taliban. Does that make us responsible for every religious murder they decide to carry out from here on out?
These are the people who took a UN-built soccer stadium, given to the Afghans so that their youth would have something productive and fun to do, and they turned it into an execution coliseum. The biggest show in town. "Beheadings and Smiting Galore! Bring the Whole Family!" I just don't buy the supposition that they are just like us; but for the grace of a few good leaders, go us. No, they have very different ideas of what "society" means.
If we are going to stay there until their society has religious freedom and civil rights for women and separation between mosque and state, be prepared to have our troops there for a very long time. And be prepared for the cost, in lives and money. And what will we get in return for that cost?
These questions are for the resident apologists for Islam (Nassem, DefenderofIslam, and Mohideen Ibrashama et al):
If Mr Rahman refuses to recant, if he adheres to his conscience, if he ignores the compulsion to revert to Islam: What then should be his fate under Shari'a Law? What is your personal opinion as to his fate (what do you think should happen to him)?
We here at JihadWatch await your individual responses.
pythagoras said
Right on target. If we really faced what the Qur'an says, the idea of "moderating Islam" would not sound so reasonable, and the idea of "eradicating Islam" would not sound so extreme.
Communism had a much milder message than Islam: each person works for the state, and the state works to take care of the people [or rephrase it however you want, it's still a far cry from Islam's message]. We spent 50 years trying to eradicate that philosophy. Islams message is: smite the unbeliever wherever you find them. How much time and energy will it take to put this "philosophy" in the dustbin of history?
spell Bible with a capital B
The UN has acted on cartoons whom do we email about death penalty for religious freedom.lets keep this on the front page to show that ROP is peace?This mans name should become a household name known by many like the cartoons. On another note is there anyone else we can email to help this couragous man?
His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children....
This is what I was talking about. 16 years nothing...and then a problem with the children so they use Islamic law to get him out of the way. Typical.
The Voice of the Martyrs has had good success with mail compaigns to the prisoner..in this case...this man. The people think they are doing this in private and when 3000 letters show up from all over the world, they often delay the action or change to some other sentence because of the pressure of world opinion.
mark52, the UN is made up of member states, 21 of which are Islamic nations. It is not a magical font of benevolence, it is a mishmash of private agendas, a democracy of dictatorships. Of course they condemned the cartoons that "humiliated" Islam. Of course they are taking no action in Darfur where Muslims are committing genocide.
You obviously have a good heart and are only interested in saving this poor man's life. But there are so many people killed in the name of Islam. Until the source of all this violence is addressed, saving one person here or there will make little dent in the ongoing slaughter.
Good luck.
I find it very curious that in the wake of the calls to shut down Guantanimo Bay because of the abuse of the inmates (crimes against humanity?), something like this can be happening...
Where is the international pressure on this topic? And how come the American news agency don't run anything on this story?
My county of 4 million people has pent 100 million dollers on Afganistan and to read about someone who may be put to death for walking away from Islam is so hard to take.
Bringing democracy to These countries is just a waste of time.
But if he refused to reconvert, then his mental state would be considered first before he was dealt with under Sharia law, the judge added....
Mental state, as if being a convert to Christianity makes him insane or something. Staying a Sharia law observing Muslim looks more insane to me.
"We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him," the judge told the BBC on Monday.
If not, we will kill him. How tolerant!
How idiotic they are, speaking tolerance than saying we will kill him because we are well, basically, extremely intolerant. Do they ever listen to themselves? There appears to be absolutley no logic in these people.
At least the world is watching this, and is following the actions of this goverment.
It may just save his life, but only because of the light being shown.
Islam is deciding his fate, perhaps somthing of it's own with it. The body watches..
This is an extremely dark story. Although it should not, the plight of Mr. Abdul Rahman disgusts me far far more than all the death and mayhem so far. Perhaps because it lays bare the choice which Muslims will freely make under Islam, even when given a hard won option not to. It is also odious because it so starkly illustrates their heartless Islamic barbarity and Muslim intolerance, their grotesque anti-human hypocrisy, and their revolting devotion to terrorism and death.
This decision emerges from a sanctified and legalized state institution: Afghanistan's Judiciary. What could illustrate the trajectory of Islam, and the villainy of Muslims more perfectly than this foul story?
It is UNTHINKABLE to me that anyone American or European should have died in order to enable these verminous Muslim animals to practice their hatred drenched religion of blood.
For the first time I am questioning the efficacy or purpose of remaining on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan if this is the kind of result we have earned for all our sacrifice and suffering. More than all the American (and allied) deaths, more than all the treasure and heartache of sacrifice -- this is diabolical.
I have never accepted the premise of democratizing Iraq or Afghanistan, although if such things can emerge out of our wars with Muslim fascists -- I say GREAT. I have always wished to see our war against them be far more robust, and far less forgiving and generous. But I have also been willing to see America make the noble effort to make a difference while taking the battle to the center of Islam's poisonous heart, and to the center of the Arab sewer.
But in the end, if this is the result we've earned -- My God!
Raining destruction upon them without mercy may be better, may be necessary. A tale such as this goes further towards convincing me that abandoning the "winning hearts and minds" part, and concentrating more on the destruction of our enemies is paramount. Beyond that remedial alteration in approach, we must begin the incremental march towards the thing Islam is designed and determined to instigate, and all our best efforts (tallied in blood and treasure) have failed to prevent: Our hand will be forced
Islam's profane heresies against mankind are forcing us to total war. To avoid our doom, we must fight and destroy this cancer.
Let me see, the US must have a mental sickness, it has imported, for re-colonization of US, 10,000 victorious Somalis Muslims who love to Hate for Allah, unknown thousands of Iranians a gift from Jimmy Carter and Iraqis with civil war and Shiite flagellation on the mind or back for fun.
I believe 18,000 displaced Muslims from Russia with love are to be parked in Ohio along with the friendly food for Somalis. The Muslims-Arabs-Islamic et al believing in their idol Mohammed is tattooed on brain and backside from birth, do not have an allegiance to US, they are at war with us. It is in an Islam war plan by demographics and Islam is winning. The US & EU and Israelis are still looking for the enemy and/or a War Plan for Victory? We are sick.
Islam's own sacred texts show Muhammed sentenced people to death for leaving Islam. For example:
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
According to the University of Southern California website, "Compendium of Muslim Texts":
Another example, from Sahih Bukhari, of Mohammed condemning people to death for leaving Islam:
Here's one where Mohammed advocates killing someone whose faith is insincere:
Maybe it's time to offer the Islamic world an opportunity to opt out of the UN's universal declaration of human rights as they seem to ignore them anyway. Of course it would then mean that muslms would not be offered the protections offered by these rights as well.
l have sent various posting with information of this site to various radio stations talk show hosts such as the big WJR in Detroit, and to Rush's website which l am a member, is that all right? l want to spread the information out to people who should have a better understanding. Frank Beckman had on this Iraqi appologist while l was at work, so l had to email him a couple of times, with quotes , posts. lhave identified Robert's website everytime. and atsame time l have urged him to have Robert on his show. l will keep pestering them.