More courageous statements from the outstanding Wafa Sultan. From MEMRITV, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to start this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?
Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.
Bravo! What a courageous and brilliant answer to an intimidating question and statement.
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
Read it all.
"The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."
My God, such a simple premise. Why hasn't it been enunciated before?
Cornelius:
If you asked Mohideen Ibrahimsha or Brian "Selective MEMRI" Whitaker, it still hasn't been enunciated, at least not by a bona fide Muslim. No, Wafa Sultan has to be a Mossad agent... ...or, if she's a real Muslim, she was drugged, or forced to say what she said... ...or that's not really what she said, it's all faked...
terdragon,
A fusion of your humor and cynicism...and who can blame you.
I'm still reeling from yesterday's encounter with my nephew. It's only just dawning on me how convoluted the internet age is. Oh yes, in decades and centuries past, warped views could be conveyed through the medium of the pamphleteer ('Protocols' being the most poignant example). But today, accessibility means that such garbage can be instantaniously transmitted to millions.
Just as we congregate at a website like this to get our fill, so do the jihadis seek their own form of validation, indoctrinating themselves and each other with a universe of web-links, all saying essentially the same thing, slipping further and further down their stink-hole of hate.
I'm feeling pessimistic these days...though the likes of Wafa Sultan gives one pause for hope...not to mention the prospect of woofing down a six-pack tonight with family and momentarily forgetting all this madness.
I watched the video exchange between them several times, she was terrific and he never knew what hit him.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Yet another muslim Doctor...If he's really a Dr, he knows the prescribed treatment for apostacy, and blaspheming Islam, and the Prophet. First there must be a riot or two, a few hundred people must die, a few Christian churches will burn, The Golden Arches are torn down, the Kentucky Fried Chicken is killed, and then a public beheading of the offender. Thats if they can catch the offender. If they cant, any Christian, ape or pig will do. And it's all Wafa's fault. She insulted the holy trinity of muslims. Islam, The Prophet and the Quran. You know thats got to pzz off Allah, it certainly did the good Dr. When do the riots start?
A breath of fresh air!
Very nice start to this day; suddenly the sun is shining.
Bravo, Wafa Sultan.
I am very, very impressed. It really takes quite a bit of conviction to stand up to dogmatic types anywhere, but to do it in this forum...calling it like it is.
Superb.
A good line from the interview:
Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me.
It is interesting that this interview, with game, set and match to the infidel, was broadcast on Al-Jazeera. Perhaps Al-Jazeera is not so one-sided as it is sometimes assumed to be.
waterdragon52
Spot on. If Muslim apologists/MSM cowards have no answer to what someone says, they attack his (or her) assumed motives instead.
It reminds me of a comment of C. S. Lewis. He said if you say, "The square on the hypotenuse is the sum of the square on the other two sides," a Marxist might say, "You're a bourgeois" and a Freudian, "You are in the grip of infantile jealousy." But neither deals with what you actually said.
I salute this very courageous woman.
Dr. Wafa Sultan sends the same chills up my spine that Dr. Martin Luther King sent when I first heard him. I pray for her safety.
I've just finished responding to 'joiesauvage' on yesterdays DW post about the Iranian girls arrest at the soccer stadium. She'd asked if there were any Psychologists (or sexologists) on board. I identified myself (Jungian Psychotherapist) gave my own comments and provided a link to another outstanding Wafa Sultan piece (from MEMRI via JW).
Here it is:
Wafa Sultan, a psychologist from LA, here speaks with Dr. Ahmad Bin Muhammad, an Algerian professor -- this was aired on Al-Jazeera on July 26, 2005. Sultan starts out by asking him why Muslim men become suicide bombers. She speaks plainly about the role of Islam:
Wafa Sultan: [...]In our countries, religion is the sole source of education, and is the only spring from which that terrorist drank until his thirst was quenched. He was not born a terrorist, and did not become a terrorist overnight. Islamic teachings played a role in weaving his ideological fabric, thread by thread, and did not allow other sources – I am referring to scientific sources – to play a role. It was these teachings that distorted this terrorist and killed his humanity. It was not (the terrorist) who distorted the religious teachings and misunderstood them, as some ignorant people claim.
When you recite to a child still in his early years the verse: "They will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off," regardless of this verse's interpretation, and regardless of the reasons it was conveyed or its time – you have made the first step towards creating a great terrorist...
Every word is worth reading. For the rest go either to JW archives or to: http://www.annaqed.com/english/under/islam_is_the_source_of_terror.html
Cornelius,
What is it that went on with your nephew? Can I read it elsewhere or do you mind repeating it?
Yojimbo:
As a psychologist, Wafa Sultan has a special edge when it comes to dealing with Islamofascists: she knows exactly how not to engage with people with personality disorders and stay on her own message. We could learn a lot from her, not only about dealing with the likes of Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli but also the David Irvings, Ken Livingstones and Norman Finklesteins. (FYI to swami: his honorific is probably related to theology and no doubt bestowed by one of the usual "Islamic Institutes" and not in medicine or a "hard science")
Similarly, Ali Sina at faithfreedom.org, who is a medical doctor of some sort is very adept at dealing with the Islamic moonbats who are foolish enough to try to take him on. Wouldn't surprise me if his MD is in psychiatry.
Interested wrote:"Perhaps AL Jazeera is not somuch one sided,as it is sometimes assumed to be".
I too had the same thought,after going through this bold and frank interview. More over, our TV staions will never ever telecast such a talk-shows..Our TV and the News medias do not have a backbone,and they are ready to aliign themselves with 'Islamism",to be on the safer side. One must note that the person ,who have been interviewed is a Arab Ex-Muslim.His interviewer too,a Muslim.I think these Ex-Muslims have more ghuts and boldness to call a spade a spade in our Western societies.Take for instance Dr. Ali Sina,and Dutch politician,Hirsi Ali of Somalia.
Some times,I think President Bush is right in handing over the security jobs in ports of America to the Dubai Arabs.He would have made his calculations,and who knows,the logic of 'a thief appointed as a policeman' will feel dignified,and help to catch more thirefs than a honest,but slack policeman.
The video is even better!
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
Mackie posted it the other day.
Her Muslim antagonist must have felt awful: chastized and totally outclassed by a secularist woman.
She's impressive!
The author is right for their to be a clash of civilizations, the muslims would first need to have one.
Now that Wafa Sultan appeared on Al-Jazeera, she can be safely interviewed ("Al-Jazeera had her on, so why not our station"?) on all kinds of Western programs, both radio and television.
Much more attention should be given to disseminating the views of people who were born into Islam, and yet somehow found their way out, and have managed to understand, and be unafraid to express that understanding, of a workings of a particular kind of mind -- a Mind On Islam.
Daisytoo,
My nephew sent me a mass email with the url of a 9-11 film which among other things claims that President Bush staged the attacks to 1) sieze gold buried in the basement of the twin towers and b) justify waging war on the world.
My nephew is a loving, intelligent, educated, sensible young man with a heart of gold. And he characterized the film as "the most important investigative joutnalism I've ever come across."
I was so disappointed. The film is slickly produced but filled with mistakes and fabrications. I fired off an email to him pointing many of them out and expressing my disappointment at his gullibility. I'm sure he's not happy with me.
If someone as intelligent as my nephew can be snookered by such obvious propaganda, then I truly fear for this country. The film is designed to alienate Americans from their government and distract us from the very real fangers confronting us. He bought it hook line and sinker.
Cornelius,
Your nephew is one of millions and millions of like-minded, ordinary Westerners. The bogey-man "elites" would have no power in our Western democratic societies were there not a dominant cultural atmosphere of PC irrationality supporting them -- unless, as Hugh and Spencer apparently believe, Western societies are not democratic at all.
This woman is a jewel, good for her!!
Cornelius~ This is what happens when the Academia is allowed to get away with their Leftist agenda. I'd say this site provides quite a reading list for your nephews next Christmas. Nariz, take note: your defense of academia is losing ground fast around here.
No question Gary...my nephew is certainly a bi-product of the education system. I'm convinced that's where it all begins, not just pedagogical instruction...but that the media and politicians take their cue from what is being espoused inside the educational institutions (along with what is printed in the NYTimes). Such is where sacred cows are established and sanctified.
Which brings me to Pepper's post...
My man, Political Correctness IS a creation of the elite...and then IMBIBED by a cross-section via the university and media. Those so indoctrinated grow into positions of power - either as politicians, journalists, corporate leaders or professors - and perpetuate the process.
Cornelius,
I forwarded your comment on how "insular Americans are to the fate of Europe" from another post on Dhimmi Watch to my email list of Jihadwatchers. It was poignant and depressing.
As for your nephew, most schools have a closed classroom door policy because of fire codes. Here's audio from a 10th grade GEOGRAPHY class at Overland Highschool in Colorado. A kid brought his MP3 player in and played it for his dad who in turn called the media. This is the crap being "taught" (sounds more like a completely off the wall rant to me)in our public schools. No Critical Thinking Allowed here:
Here's the audio. You have to listen to believe it.
A great column appears on Michelle Malkin's website. Scroll down a little to see it all.
http://www.michellemalkin.com/
I'm glad the media is taking note of it. Now they just need to correct the myriad of lies so people who don't know their history can see what a load of garbage this is.
Let's try that audio link again:
Here's the recording of the teacher Jay Bennish and his anti Bush, anti Capitalism, anti American, anti Israel rant.
Sorry, I can't seem to figure it out. You can liisten to it via Michelle Malkin's site. It will blow you away.
Mooselimbs,
Yes I heard the teacher's rant when the story broke yesterday. Appalling.
Sad thing about my nephew is that he's in his 20s. I swear if you talked with him, besides finding him very likable, you'd consider him definitely above average in intelligence.
That's why this is so depressing to me....it's not just that someone I love believes something so antithetical to the truth...but that he is representative of many young Americans who - though imbued with ethics, morals and intelligence - are bereft of true intellectual depth and vision and are thus prone to believing in such utter bullshit.
If anybody is interested in the interview of Wafa Sultan with french subtitles, you can find it there: http://www.dailymotion.com/Tazda/video/65258
Cornelius,
"Sad thing about my nephew is that he's in his 20s. I swear if you talked with him, besides finding him very likable, you'd consider him definitely above average in intelligence."
It is a shock to see such strong susceptibility to conspiracy theorizing in our culture. I agree with those posters who connect the phenomena to lack of educational authority &/or ability (and strong male authority in general) However, never underestimate the power of a loving uncle (who knows just how smart his nephew is :)! And has anyone else noticed that the 20's seem to be the 'new adolescence' - or do you think I'm just getting older ?
Daisy,
I appreciate the kind words and the hopeful attitude.
It's hard to explain. My nephew has already superceded me in many aspects of life. He earns more than I do and has social skills that transcend my own...to name just two. He's really a remarkable, gregarious, thoughtful young man....and yet, in the political realm, he is absolutely juvenile...(your 'new adolescence' in spades).
My fear is that he is not unique...that just as you wrote, he is - like so many others - fertile ground for the nonsense being spewed in the nether-nether world of the internet rumor-mill.
He's a man in full possession of personal integrity, but apparently sorely lacking in intellectual integrity. All I can do is try to set him straight to the extent that he's willing to listen...and love him. He's my blood.
About Wafa Sultan video in French: sorry guys, the above link is not good. use rather http://www.dailymotion.com/Tazda/video/65587 !
(Faint.)
Wow! The courageous Dr. Sultan almost makes me think that there is hope for Islam. What a spectacular man.
kj,Iam not sure Dr,Wafa Sultan is a man ,and judging from the name ,it is a female name.
Judging from the video (see MEMRI site, or links above), she IS a woman - a very brave one indeed!
Wow. An impressive piece of debate by Wafa Sultan.
I noticed a small point when watching the video at MEMRI and reading the transcript: At around 1:10 into the video, in arabic, the host uses the word "harb", but it is translated as "west". The translated text is:
"Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean."
Translating "harb" as "west" loses a significant portion of the (probably) intended meaning of the speaker, and loses an opportunity for Westerners to gain insight into the basic nature of the conflict. That is, from an arab muslim viewpoint, the "west" is synonymous with dar al-harb, the essential antithesis of their own dearly beloved dar al-islam. When native arab speakers refer to the "west" in their own language, they use a word laden with a pejorative muslim meaning. The basic words which are used to describe events and frame "knowledge" in the arab world are not neutral. Far from it. This contributes to their "dream palaces" and the group-insanity of those who believe the ideology known as islam.
Thank you - because this is what I am thinking.
I think that the Muslims are wondering why, and also are possibly jealous of the respect that the Jews have gained.
Then you have to analyze what it is that the Jews have done and what it is that they have asked of the people around them.
Certainly not that everyone dress in the Jewish attire - or hold Jewish beliefs or else.
What the Muslims are demanding is like that of a spoilt child.
With all respects due to Arabia -
For the Arabians, Europe is like the one that got away; the fisherman who comes back with the big tale. Europe has always eluded the Arabs, and now they have come, through an immigrant population - to try and grasp once again - the illusive lands of Europe.
It might be much easier to take some swords down in to Africa and slice some souls up for Islam, but Europe has been the thing which is just there, and they can't have it.
The Arabs and their puppets should know though that it they want Europe than their fight has just begun.
Rafia, Wafa Sultan is defintely not a man, but a very attractive, intelligent woman with more balls that all the politicians in Dar al-Harb!
I hope she realizes that she is lion-taming with only the 'chair' of reason between her and a wild beast.
May her be kevlar be secure, her judo moves be up to date, and her luck be sublime.
A rare gem.
God Bless this truly brave woman. She is a true hero to ask the questions.