You can find an update on this story at the Beaumont Enterprise, with thanks to PRCS.
Those things I said about John Caffery? Never mind.
You can find an update on this story at the Beaumont Enterprise, with thanks to PRCS.
Those things I said about John Caffery? Never mind.
Musta got drunk on a hefty shot 'o that taquyya.
We have respect for your stand, but for the respect of a peaceful community, please take it down
"It would be a shame for anything to happen to this nice little peaceful community you have here. One by one little communities like yours realize they need protection. That's where we come in."
-- Imam Tony Soprano
"...We have respect for your stand, but for the respect of a peaceful community, please take it down," Humayun, the imam for the Islamic Society of the Triplex, said..."
What he really said:
"If you don't take it down we can not guarantee your safety. Your daughter might be kidnapped and raped and you might have a visit from a halal-butcher..."
We can only win against these bastards if the cartoons are in every paper, constantly on TV and on every billboard. It is just not good enough to leave something so important to one brave individual who is then 'visited' by an imam...
Come on -- Don't fault this man. He's a decent American who has had his decency completely exploited by the Muslims. Everything you said before remains true. Don't chastise him for capitulating - he probably has no idea what he stumbled into -- but his intuition was spot on -- If anything he's a victim of his own hopefulness and optimism as an American.
I can see the picture now -- the unctious Muslims -- broad smiles, firm hand shakes, "peace be upon you! We're all children of Abraham!" --- So practiced in the artful little deceptions, all the comforting coos and coddlements explicitly designed to elicit the response... We've all see the slick studied nonchalance of their "hail fellow -- well met -- now will you do us kindly little peaceful Muslims a huuuuuge favor?"
How could this man have been prepared for the inevitable "Will ya take the sign down?"
Please don't say anything ill about Mr. Caffery.
I know this man personally - John Caffery. Haven't talked to him in 5 yrs or so. He is a head strong individual. We used to race sailboats on our local lake. He owned the slowest boat in the field. He never quit and always finished the race. I'll see if I can get him to give a full account of the meeting with the Imam.
"Come on -- Don't fault this man."
Indeed, I commend him for his courage in even taking the stance in the first place - more courage than almost 100% of editors worldwide have had. And more courage that I would have probably.
I don't mind anyone not having that courage, or giving in under the Muslim pressure, under one condition: that they admit that they are scared of death threats. I just hate it when the papers pretend that it's 'out of respect', further allowing Islamists to equate fear with respect.
Why did he agree to meet with an "imam" at all?
What the hell business is it of theirs what a free American does?
I knew as soon as he "agreed" to this meeting he was a fool.
I guess you can take the "DON'T" out of the "MESS WITH TEXAS", now.
Either do not stand up, or, if you do, stay standing.
FORGET THE ALAMO.
It's a meal of prairie chicken in Beaumont.
(That's armadillo to the uninitiated.)
I'm sure this will make the mullahs happy everywhere.
Even the big, tough Texans are cowards! Hah!
Caffrey is now qualified for a job on one of the newspapers he mocked.
Cub reporter.
Emphasis on the cub.
http://images.zwire.com/local/Z/Zwire2287/zwire/images/2006/03/story/20060302_234351_story.jpg
Imam Muhammad Humayun:
I like this Imam's white Islamo-beanie, his billowy white shirt and his vest. He's got that neo-hippie thing going on
My support for Denmark led me get an email from a person who said basically that people's religion and culture must be respected.
So I asked him if he respected the Aum Shinrikiyo, and Jim Jones of the People's Temple, among others. Looking forward to hearing back.
My message is this:
DO NOT INFLICT (Expect me to adhere to) YOUR (Muslim) RELIGIOUS VIEWS (No Images of Muhammad) UPON ME (Not a Muslim).
Maybe YOU can't draw Muhammad, because you're a Muslim. But I'm not a Muslim, so I can. I don't hate Muslims. But I'm not Muslim. So as long I'm standing on US soil, don't expect me to adhere to Muslim teachings.
Thank You.
-----------------
Here's another tidbit for you: THE PROHIBITION on illustrating Muhammad extends to all prophets of Islam, and that includes Moses (Musa) and Jesus (Issa). You know where I'm going with this.
I'm still grateful, this man probably didn't know what he was getting himself into.
Funny, if you read the story you get the impression Mr. Caffery and the two muslims shook hands, hugged and walked off as new found buddies.
When I first read this story on Dhimmi Watch, I sent Mr. Caffery a letter of support. Here is the reply he sent to me (after he took down the sign):
"******: Thanks for your support. I've gotten calls & email from all over the world. My intent was a free speech issue to try to cause newspaper editors embarressment for not showing the American public the specific reasons (the cartoons) why Muslims were rioting, killing and issuing death threats. I accomplished my purpose so the sign was taken down last night. Yesterday morning at their request I met for two hours with the local Imam and two of his mosque buddies. It was like talking to a stone wall. They want free speech only as long as they can dictate its limits.
Best wishes, John Caffery"
I have nothing but respect for Mr. Caffery. Though we're not in as much danger in the United States due to the (FOR NOW) small Muslim population, he took a huge risk multi-billion dollar media outlets - who love to posture and preen about courage and speaking truth to power - refused to take due to cowardice.
He's one of the few bright spots in what's beginning to look less like a clash of civilizations and more like a slow capitulation of western civilization.
I don't predict losing when we still have so many ways to win, but intellectually the Muslims are beating us at our own game. I've long believed the destruction of our educational system by so-called 'progressives' (Stalinism lite) would do us in over time. As it turns out, the time may be much sooner than I thought. The value of a classical liberal education turns out to be the ability to see Big Brother no matter what disguise he's wearing, or language he's speaking.
I spoke with John, by phone, the day before the meeting with the Imam and his buddies.
I offered him encouragement, and sent him an email that included an annotated copy of each of the drawings as ammo for his upcoming visit with the cleric.
I also contacted the newspaper reporter, and sent him a copy of the same drawings. He told me to keep my eyes open for a story the nest day.
Here is John's last email back to me:
"All around the world 100% positive email and phone calls. Well,
although positive one guy was part of the apologist crowd: "We have to
understand their feelings too." This morning at their request I met with the
local Imam and two of his mosque buddies. Smooth talkers, and I'd have
been better off if I'd just slept late. Deaf ears/subject when I
brought up subject like women rights, cartoons equally offensive to
Christians, Jews, etc who nonetheless are not rioting or issuing fatwas over
them, and suiside bombers, beheadings, etc. And completely non-responsive
to my comment about Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
assertion that the only acceptable American limitation on free speech was that
one cannot cry "FIRE" in a crowded theatre. The emails from the U.K.
were particularly sad as their free speech had been erroded in the past
year.
Best wishes, John Caffery"
I wasn't sure what the outcome would be, but I did check the newspaper, and there was the article.
If anyone would like a copy of the cartoons that I've annotated, you're welcome to email me and I'll send you a copy.
If you'd like proof that the 'descriptions' of the drawings provided by news outlets were an inadequate substitute for the drawings themselves, or that publishing the drawings without some background info was insufficient to inform the public, the annotated drawings do that.
As examples: how many know from such 'descriptions' that three of the drawings were submitted in protest, or that five of the drawings did not depict the Muslim prophet Muhammad at all?
robertcorrow@sbcglobal.net
And for 000000001, yes, some Muslims do believe that. Which would leave Christian churches in violation of those Muslims' belief.
I think the original praise of John Caffery should stand unchanged.
Hugh-
I have to disagree.
If you put up a show of resistance only to then give in what's the point? Other than to demonstrate your essential weakness?
Best not to do anything.
All this does is encourage those who want to suppress our freedoms with a sample of the wobbly-ness of those who claim to defend it.
Patrick Henry didn't say:
"Give me liberty... unless it gets kinda hard."
My Danish flag flies right next to Old Glory on my porch (the latter has been there continuously since 10:50 a.m. September 11, 2001... right after I emailed President Bush to "strike at the nests of vipers, wherever they are in the world, hard! and immediately! -before the iron of our national resolve cools...").
If I were this guy's age, I would gladly also invite the public controversy and post the cartoons on my lawn, but I want to work on a different path for the time being. What else does he have to do in his anecdotage that will be as meaningful for his country?
Once you leap in the fray, don't tip-toe out.
Muslims must be tickled pink to see a Texan blink so fast, and with so little pressure.
Hollywood once liked to celebrate the lone and often lonely individual who arrived on the scene to see justice done. It might be Spencer Tracy, seeking justice for his murdered Japanese-American friend, in "Bad Day at Black Rock." It might be Gary Cooper in "High Noon," gradually winning over a few -- a very few -- of the townsfolk so that they will help him stand up against the gang that has been terrorizing the whole town.
Where does John Caffery fit? In the earlier movies, it was the man who defied bigotry or ignored, or in some cases helped others overcome, a general fear. The"bigotry" here is a new kind: the "bigotry" of being willing to overlook a menace to pluralism, to the rights achieved over centuries, to the willingness to throw overboard all kinds of laws, customs, manners, that are under assault, organized and disorganized, by Muslim groups.
The fear is the same.
He succeeded in making his point. He did not, in fact, retreat. He talked, as a reasonable Western man might, to people who cannot conceivably understand, much less respect, our laws about freedom of speech. They were, that imam and his friends in Beaumont, Texas (jthe spread of Islam in the lands of the Infidels, even in this one, is apparently capillary), unwilling to listen or comprehend. They were like a "stone wall." Still, he politely gave them two hours. The stubbornly civilizedd, the resolutely primitive.
Perhaps television should take on the subject first. The good script writers know what to do. They should do it. The movies will follow.
(how about Atticus Finch -- To Kill a Mockingbird)
Above I said "he probably has no idea what he stumbled into -- but his intuition was spot on" -- I stand corrected based on the two personal accounts of his communication in the thread above -- Not only did he understand -- his understanding was penetrating and his actions resolute.
I didn't credit Mr. Caffery with half the credit he was due. Steadfast. Solid. Convinced of the rightness without crowing about it. This is one fine man. An inspirational citizen. More of a gentleman than I!
Hats off to Mr. Caffery! Three cheers!
Also:
Hats off also to everyone at JihadWatch... Without them, the task of awakening would be more difficult and precarious!
(PS -- won't you change the title of this thread? It's an injustice.
jsla: "Above I said "he probably has no idea what he stumbled into -- but his intuition was spot on" -- I stand corrected based on the two personal accounts of his communication in the thread above -"
I assumed the same thing - that he probably really didn't understand what he had stumbled into but the email response to PCRS, in particular, cleared up that misconception on my part. Which means he understood the risks he was taking when he did it. Which increases my estimation of the man.
Here is something that many may overlook about this whole ordeal.
Beaumont, TX while it does have 100k population it is NOT … New York, LA, DC etc etc.
Beaumont, TX is more like small town America. It’s Friday night football, baby back ribs, Ford trucks in the driveways, get drunk on Saturday night, attend church on Sunday and back to work mostly in the petro/chemical industry on Monday.
Wherever muslims live be it in the large, middle or small cities of America … Make no mistake ... jihad and dawa is active and ongoing.
I also don't think he caved in. This is what he wrote to me :
At least he had a go.
Why not a segment devoted to this story on 60 Minutes? Or 48 Hours? Or on some news program on NPR? Why not interview the articulate Mr. Caffery, and the local imam. Why not discuss the issue he had raised -- the discussion of cartoon rage, fanatical and murderous mobs, diplomatic boycoots, economic boycotts, threat to kill Danes wherever they might be found, without any of the major American papers daring to show even one of those photographs?
Isn't this a subject worth reporting on? Wouldn't everyone like to know about it, and possibly have the issue of free speech raised?
Is John Caffery acting in the spirit of John Peter Zenger? If he is, why should anyone be sympathetic to those who are attempting to shut him up, with warnings about a "peaceful community"?
Truth4u: "I have had no death threats to date. I'm almost sorry, because I was looking for some excuse to head out on a personal hunting trip. Best wishes, John Caffery, REALTOR, RE/MAX Northwest C409-651-7600 Off.753-3939"
Good Lord! How can anyone possibly claim that this guy doesn't have guts? Isn't a consummate "anti-Dhimmi"?. In fact, I'll remember his name when the annual anti-Dhimmi awards come up next year.
All his emails and telecons aside.
The facts stand.
The Muslims flexed their muscles.
He caved.
Excuse, rationalize as you wish, but those are the facts.
Anyone else who feels like putting their own signs up are free to do so and free to take them down for their own reasons. Mr. Caffery owns no one an explanation. His sign - his decision.
Mr. Caffery decided to take the sign down when he decided it had served its purpose (and whatever else factored into his decision is his business). We do know this .. He is an old school gentleman who, when asked when he intended to take the sign down, said he would defer to his wife's wishes:
"The sign will stay up at least until Caffery's wife takes it down, he said. "She's not wild about it," Caffery said. "She doesn't generally think I should have done it. ... As long as people want it up, I'll keep it up."
Tactfulness is a powerful virtue and gentleman know when to employ tact. When one's wife wants the sign down .. or anything else ... a gentleman is under no obligation to explain anything to anyone. His only obligation is to be true to himself and to his wife. End of story.
I just realized -- Caffery. Kaffir. My.
Nariz: The Muslims flexed their muscles.
He caved.
Excuse, rationalize as you wish, but those are the facts."
I'm sorry. I apparently missed the story where you actually put up a billboard in your front yard with one of the cartoons on it.
You didn't?
Well then, apparently you caved even BEFORE the Muslims flexed their muscles. Pardon me then if I think Mr. Caffery is a bit braver by half than yourself.
I have annotated all twelve of the original drawings with some info that may not be readily apparent to the casual observer.
If you'd like a copy, please feel free to email me.
robertcorrow@sbcglobal.net
The 'descriptions' provided by news outlets in lieu of publishing the drawings have never told the truth about the drawings.
Ever.
this is what I received on 3/3 from him.
Doug: Thanks for your kind words. Met with several of them yesterday morning. Scarry, and I might as well been discussing knitting with a brick wall. All 400+ replies positive, so I must have struck a nerve somewhere. Almost sorry no death threats received because I was secretly hoping for an excuse to head out on a personal hunting trip. There's always next time...
Best regards, John Caffery, REALTOR, RE/MAX Northwest, C409-651-7600 Off.753-3939
I also sent a bit later something that someone sent me about muslims not being able to be an american citizen for all the reasons they have.
afraid that he had already made up his mind what he would do when he sent the above reply to me.
Have you ever thought -- Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen? Is Muslim American really an oxymoron? Consider this:
Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.
Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)
Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).
Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co - exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore after much study and deliberation....
perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.
They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth.
If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.
Pass it on Fellow Americans......
The religious war is bigger than we know
I commend Mr. Caffery, but I wish that he showed more intestinal resolve on the matter. I called him and left a recorded maessage on his voice mail voicing my supprot for his taking the intiative to start his campaign in the first place. There is much more to this fight than he knows. Muslims never give up or give in. They will never settle for anything short of a victory for Islam. This was a victory for Islam in the United States!!! The line was drawn in the sand, the Mulims stepped over it, and Mr. Caffery caved.
But rest assured, Islamofeces, the battle has just begun!!! You will not win the United States of America for Islime!!! And if you do, it will have been over my DEAD BODY!!!!
FREEDOM!!! It may be free, but it aint cheap!!!
May the Wings of Liberty never lose a Feather!!!
God Bless America!!!