Good fruits of a new law. "Militants jailed on terror charges," from the Herald Sun, with thanks to all who sent this in:
A DUTCH court has handed down sentences of up to 15 years to a group of nine Islamist militants it found guilty of belonging to a terrorist organisation, but acquitted four other suspects.Prosecutors had demanded sentences of up to 20 years in a verdict seen as a test of tougher new anti-terrorism laws.
Similar trials for the charge of “membership of a criminal organisation with terrorist intent” have collapsed in the past.
Introduced in 2004, the charge is intended to enable militants to be convicted before the attacks they plan are carried out.
“The group ... spread texts inciting violence and threatened terrorist crimes,” presiding judge Allard de Boer said.
“Threatening to carry out terrorist crimes strikes public order in the heart ... He who sows hatred and preaches violence is laying the basis for crimes aimed at instilling fear in the population and to destroy the Dutch rule of law.”
The time is coming to consider mandatory life sentences or mandatory death sentences for Jihadists. Treating Islamic activism as a simple Class A felony such as murder is unwise.
After all, it's not a human life they would kill off, it's civilization itself.
MORE MORE DAMMIT I WANT MORE GIVE ME MUCHO MOSLEMS RIGHT HERE NOW
To make sure this mandatory sentencing plan is implemented in all Dar al Harb nations, have that horrible little African dictator Kofi Anan run with the ball over at the UN.
Excellent news!
Execllent!
I already sport a "Support Denmark" bumper sticker on my car; now I need to find one that supports the Dutch. It will be a glorious day when my car no longer has room to support those strong enough to take an Anti-Dhimmi stance!
It's time to consider mandatory life sentences or death sentences for Jihadists.
Treating Jihad terrorism like a normal felony such as murder is a mistake. This is because it's not a life they would kill off, it's civilization itself.
MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO MORE MO
To make sure that this new mandatory Jihadi sentencing is implemented by all the nations of Dar al Harb, give the ball to that horrible little African dictator Kofi Anan over at the UN. He'll take care of things.
Sorry. TypeKey is acting up again.
@ quietwatcher,
Ya can support both Denmark & the Dutch by combining the two flags, creating the famous "Dutchmark"-flag (Nedermarken in Dutch).
We used this symbol to express our solidarity with the Danes during our rally in Amsterdam feb25th.
For Dutchmark-design, see my "website" (*cough*):
Kind regs,
Sag.
Thanks, Sag.
Just finished my new copy of 'While Europe Slept' by Bruce Bawer. He says one in three of native Dutch would like to emigrate due to Islamic radicalism, gangs and crime. Already the best and brightest are heading for Australia, Canada or New Zealand. Its probably too late for this priceless, unique and irreplaceable little country. We need little Holland as a unique part of our Western heritage. We do not need more milions of frenzied ignorant Moblems. I am getting so very very angry.
Speaking of the Dutch, here was a recent Newsweek article entitled "The End of Tolerance", which seemingly views the Netherlands as a "bellweather" European country vis a vis evolving attitudes towards multiculturalism:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11569485/site/newsweek/
What is terrific about this is that American liberals and "elites" are in love with Europeans, whom they view as so much more "enlightened" than their own "red-state" conservatives. Once the most tolerant liberal Europeans start standing their ground and resisting the jihad, I think it will be a huge wake-up call for the "liberal" 50% of American voters. It could even cause them to stop speaking and thinking so disparagingly about American "fly-over" country, or at least, give them some pause to examine whether they really do "know it all." Needless to say, that would be a very good thing.
I recommend Paul Sperry's "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington."
Mr. Sperry shows how the military's Muslim chaplaincy corps was created by a man now in prison for aiding and abetting anti-American terrorism, how the FBI's translation department has become a rat's nest of Muslim treason, and how this and more is being ignored and therefore fostered by public servants who should be protecting this country.
15 years ?
wrong answer
put a bullet in their brains like so much rabid dogs
the only way to remove a menace is to fully kill it
then feed the corpse to the pigs in the "back 40" of the prison yard
kill it; kill it for good
or it will come back
Gee, so much for intelligent conversation; right, Crunchy Jello?
Certainly all of us interesting in spreading the truth about Islam and the jihad being perpetrated globally would love to see harsher punishment, stiffer sentences, and eradication of the Dhimmi attitude that stops the aforementioned from occurring on a regular basis.
That said, I do believe your comments are precisely the kind of thing Robert attempted to address just a few days ago. Please, let's not give those who don't fully comprehend the struggle any ammunition with which to discredit the message we're trying to spread. "Put a bullet in their brains like so much rabid dogs...
then feed the corpse to the pigs in the "back 40" of the prison yard" leaves us wide open to more of the criticism that we already encounter daily.
I am getting so very very angry.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at March 10, 2006 07:24 PM
___
Ecclesiastes
A time to hate...
A time to rend...
A time to kill...
It appears that a few nations in Europe are leaning that is the time to address the cult of Islam in the terms that Islam uses and understands.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
Remember: email, mail and fax those letters to the misinformed and uninformed.
http://www.conservativeusa.org/mega-cong.htm
I must agree with quietwatcher.
Act like an idiot and you become one.
Good News
Here are the last lines of the article ~
“This case is important in setting the framework for the months and years to come when it comes to continuing the fight against terrorism in other cases,” said Dick Leurdijk, terrorism expert at the Clingendael Institute.
Several acquittals in trials of people suspected of planning attacks in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe have raised the question of how close a suspect must be to detonating a bomb before prosecutors can demonstrate guilt.
A Dutch court sentenced another man to three years jail in February for trying to recruit volunteers and planning a “violent jihad”, the first conviction under the tighter laws.
The judge rejected defence lawyers' arguments that there was not enough evidence against their clients, who they said were being persecuted for being Muslims
http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050#
Related article NYT:For Muslim Who Says Violence Destroys Islam, Violent Threats By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: March 11, 2006
If this kind of material is sufficient "incitement to violence" for a prison term, can the Koran, itself, be far behind?
And when will the sentences match the threat?
As Spain, with no death penalty, mourns the 2 year anniversary of its mass-murders by Muslim extremists, what will they threaten terrorists with in the future, when a group of them kills tens or hundreds of thousands of citizens?
Reduced t.v. privileges?
No gym time for a month?
Spanish language Korans?
The ultimate penalty for terrorism needs to exist.
Or, you are like a park ranger waving statutes at gore-covered grizzly bears and saying:
"Now, it says right here that you are not allowed to disembowel the campers...!"
The terrorists laugh at Europe's castrato song, as well.
Having read the above comments leads me to conclude that most commentators rather gullibly applaud the sentencing of Dutch-born Islamic radicals forming the terrorist Hofstadgroep. At least one suspect, however, was convicted for disseminating hate-mongering ideas.
To be sure, I fully agree that penalizing membership of a terrorist organization is arguably defensible on the basis of combating terrorism. Conversely, holding hateful ideas, including misogynistic, homophobic, and racist claims, and having the right to speak freely about them is necessary for survival of the free society.
Along with Dutch PM Hirsi Ali, I believe hate-mongering ideas can only be effectively challenged by close scrutiny of its arguments, whereas a court can only determine guilt. To illustrate this point, existing anti-hate legislation has not been able, to the best of my knowledge, to decrease the prevalence of hate crimes, let alone to debunk its underpinning ideas and emotions.
In a similar vein, Hirsi Ali observes that some aspects of the new anti-terrorism law unfortunately aid to undermine not only the right to free speech but also another core value of a democratic society, namely the separation of powers. Striving to be a true libertarian, I must agree with her warning that the ability to penalize hateful ideas implies that ideological and political decisions can now be made by judges. Today this may mean Islamic radicals are seemingly silenced in Dutch courtrooms, but tomorrow this legal instrument or a variant thereof may result in censoring people like Hirsi Ali, critizing (radical) Islam, or the late Theo Van Gogh, who reserved terms such as retarded 'goat-fuckers' for Muslims.
As a Dutchwoman, I do not necessarily feel safer because a few Dutch-born Islamic radicals are now incarcerated. Most alarmingly, such legal practices can (c)overtly be used by the Dutch government as an alibi for not publically challenging Islamic tradition itself as the root cause of Jihadists. Indeed, in a turn of irony, Dutch tolerance, or indifference as its more ordinary equivalent, are precisely the drives behind these attempts to avoid the real debate about Islam by pragmatic-oriented and electorally sensitive politicians.
Meanwhile, Mohammedan votes in recent municipal elections have boosted to ensure full victory in the four major cities of their so sensitive allies, two (extreme) left-wing parties.
I find the above developments in the great Dutch tolerant society naively revered by some particularly worrisome, to say the least.
I think the Dutch are doomed no metter what they do because they have allowed the Muslims to gain a foot hold and i heard that if current birth rates continue the four major cities in Holland will be majority muslim within one generation.
I think the Dutch will be the first european country to have there free way of life threatened by Islam in a major way and i believe they will end up fighting a civil war.
I am myself a Dutchman living in Austria, which itself has had a long tradition of dealing with Muslim "warriors", dating back to the Middle-ages. The Turks were succesfully fended off until the 1960's when they were invited to perform labor. Could the Austrians have expected that third generation of Turks still mainly speaks Turkish, especially when among other Turks?
Austrians have noticed this problem about 15 years ago. In the Netherlands these problems of integration weren't spoken about, because anyone who did, was until recently (before Mr. Pim Fortuyn said it like it is) mocked and called a racist. I remember very well the period in the late 90s when Dutch citizens were mocking Austrians for being an eternally racist folk. Now that I've known Austrians and Vienna from up close for about 6 years, I know they were right all along.
It has nothing to do with racism. The troublemakers aren't a race. They are an attitude. Part of the problem is Islam. There is no sense in still denying this. Islam teaches hate for all things the West stands for. This knowledge is slowly sinking in with the Dutch; The Dutch public attitude towards the problems with integration is changing. This is one reason why these sentences are generally not well very received in the Netherlands. The prosecutors asked for more, but this is all they got.
I can't see how imprisonment, for no matter how long, could cure these people from their hate for anything that freedom of thought has brought humanity. I think their imprisonment will give them plenty of time to think, but surely they won't think good or beautiful things. If they wouldn't be kept in solitude, they would probably try to convert other convicts, just like they did during the period before their sentence.
Imprisonment, however impotent it may be, is however the only and most powerful instrument Dutch society is allowed to apply for selfconservation. I don't think we should we should lose humanity to punish those who want us to give up all humanity.
Maybe a suitable punishment after the imprisonment could be 'disturbing' their activities by letting them know their every move is being monitored, as has been the case for some suspects who could not be directly convicted of any criminal offence.
Killing one or two or more will never prevent seeding the next generation with hatred. In addition to immediate execution of the guilty, the world needs Massive, Massive public education to reveal the poison that is islam and how that culture of death and hatred is based on lies and distortions of our Bible. Educate, Educate and Educate the subsequent generations to prevent the cancers of terrorism and islam from spreading to the young. This cancer requires chemotherapy, not only surgery for its cure.
RE: Striving to be a true libertarian, I must agree with her warning that the ability to penalize hateful ideas implies that ideological and political decisions can now be made by judges
Read the article again as they were not convicted for having hateful ideas and four were acquited.
Throughout history, planning to commit a crime, is a crime and has stood the test of time. It is call a conspiracy to...........!
mr_atheist: "I think their imprisonment will give them plenty of time to think, but surely they won't think good or beautiful things. If they wouldn't be kept in solitude, they would probably try to convert other convicts, just like they did during the period before their sentence."
By all means give them plenty of time to think but they should be deprived of their Korans. Give them the Bible, the Bhagavagida, the Diamond Sutra, the (what? I'm open to suggestions here). Give them anything but the Koran. That should be an essential part of their punishment. No Korans.
we must all know that islam is out to totally destroy western civilization and christianity. we must let everyone know this to stop it. europe must be vigilant. the dutch just can't leave europe to the muslims. there are no moderate muslims. they all would not turn anyone in who planned a strike and they all want shira laws for the world. we must stop it before it is too late. look at dafur. 2 million killed so far. look at the armenians. we must help. perhaps milosevic was right.
"Read the article again as they were not convicted for having hateful ideas and four were acquited.
Throughout history, planning to commit a crime, is a crime and has stood the test of time. It is call a conspiracy to...........!
Posted by: learjet0450"
Nowhere does the article state that none was convicted for hateful ideas too, so how can you reach a conclusion on the basis of absent data? Excuse me for not basing my comment uncritically and solely upon the content of the above article.
Still, reading my comment carefully should make one wonder why an anti-dhimmituder like Hirsi Ali would say to call for an amendment to preserve freedom of speech if the trial in no way posed a threat thereto, which it did by convicting Fahmi B. not only for membership of a terrorist organization but also for disseminating hateful ideas.
More here in Dutch:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/35028761/Hirsi_Ali:_extreme_idee%C3%ABn_niet_via_rechter_bestrijden.html