Sharia Alert: "Divorce Granted for Muslim Couple," from AP, with thanks to Twostellas:
Islamic leaders in India have ordered a Muslim couple to divorce.The wife told friends that her husband had uttered the word "talaq" three times in his sleep.
"Talaq" means divorce.
When the story reached religious leaders, they said his words constituted a divorce under an Islamic procedure known had "triple talaq" and they ordered the split.
They had been married eleven years. Now according to Islamic law they cannot remarry until the wife marries another man, consummates the marriage, and is again divorced.
It sounds to me like this woman wanted to be divorced. Otherwise, why would she repeat what her husband supposedly said in his sleep? Presumably she was the only witness; she could have simply said nothing...or invented anything. It seems likely she was aware of the consequences. This does not make Sharia any less regressive, but one must consider that in this case a woman used Sharia to get what she wanted.
Quijybo-- interesting observation.
At least I hope that's what the Mrs. was going for, and not seeking the confidential advice/sympathy of female friends. Ouch.
Perhaps one of said "friends" had designs on the guy and saw her chance.
Now, if sleep-walking is "somnambulism," what's sleep-divorce?
Interesting loophole.
Now, if the husband wanted to dispute his exclamations during sleep, he could have done so. His testimony would have been worth more (i.e., had more weight) than hers in idlamic law, so she could not have prevailed. Evidently, he really did want the divorce.
Interesting, as I said. Because the man is a polygamist, and has three wives, each of whom claims an "at-sleep utterance" as in this case, then three witnesses at half-worth will outweigh the husband's testimony at the ratio of 1.5 to 1.0 and the women will prevail. A conspiracy, to be sure, but who's to prove otherwise?
Just thinking like a lawyer. Sorry.
Typos. (1) islamic law (2) Because if the man is a polygamist. . .
Their divorce laws are WAY too easy!
Shinoliite - I believe the word for sleep-divorce is "sunderslumber."
Okay, suppose I'm Muslim. My friend has a hot babe of a wife. We go hunting and when we return from the trip, I inform him (sadly, of course) that while he was asleep he just kept saying "talaq" over and over. Naturally, he's devastated at the news, but being his good friend, I volunteer to marry and have sex with her, so he can get her back. It's a dirty, hateful, task for me but what are friends for?
Pardon my sexist male fantasy above but Shari'a was obviously developed with all kinds of immoral loopholes. I agree with Quijybo. This woman outsmarted her husband into giving her a divorce. Remember, the man who marries her in the mean time is under no obligation to divorce her. She's now free to marry her lover and is no longer at risk of being stoned to death.
Yet another example of a religion that emphasizes form over substance. The most cruel one being death for apostasy - it does not matter whether one really believes Islam in his/her heart as long as they do not renounce it.
Yes, I suspect, as others have said, the wife wanted a divorce.
One question, though, assuming he actually uttered the word of divorce three times: If he was asleep and dreaming when he said this, how does anyone know that he was referring to his actual wife, and not some dream wife? Another possibility: Maybe he was simply quoting the divorce law and was not actually referring to his own circumstances?
Okay, I feel absurd speculating about the absurd, so...next thread.
Since everything else in Islam is done asleep, why not this?
As Yeats put it:
"What sort of man is coming
To lie between your feet?
What matter, we are but women.
Wash, make your body sweet;
I have cupboards of dried fragrance
I can strew the sheet.
The Lord has mercy upon us.".
A religion only Freud could love.
What? All a woman has to do is say that her husband said such-n-such in his sleep and it becomes fact - ha!
Dead men can't defend themselves - neither can sleeping men!
Folks, I looked at a more detailed report of this story. The divorce appears to be something that the community and leaders are insisting upon (i.e., must observe Sharia).
http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1659469,000900030001.htm
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HindustanTimes.com » States » West Bengal » Story
Uttering talaq in sleep lands couple in soup Press Trust of India Siliguri, March 26, 2006
A Muslim couple in Jalpaiguri district have been ordered by local religious leaders to separate as the husband allegedly uttered talaq three times in his sleep. While the couple, who have three children, refused to obey the order since there was no discord between them, the community leaders are adamant that they must separate or face a "social boycott".
Aftab Ansari and Sohela have been married for the past 11 years. However, on the night of December 20 last year, Aftab allegedly uttered talaq three times in his sleep after a tiff with his wife. The matter came to light when Sohela discussed it with her close friends and soon it reached the ears of the Muslim leaders.
The leaders, quoting the Shariyat, ruled that the talaq has to be implemented and if it is not acceptable, the only alternative was temporary separation for 100 days during which the wife will live at her father's house and spend a night with another man. She can remarry her husband only after the man has given her talaq. As the couple was unwilling to accept the verdict, the matter went to the family counselling centre at Falakata police station in Jalpaiguri district.
The counselling centre, attended by judges of the Alipurduar sub-divisional court, discussed the problem in detail on Saturday, but failed to find a solution. The additional district session judge (second track), Muhammad Abdul Jalil, has directed the general secretary of the Anjuman Committee, Muhammad Abul, to settle the issue, sources in the counselling centre said.
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"The matter came to light when Sohela discussed it with her close friends and soon it reached the ears of the Muslim leaders."--from above-posted story.
This illustrates the totalitarian nature of living under Islamic rules. The leaders have access to the private utterances of a man and wife, and impose rulings on them.
Do you think they have tapes for men who have lost their voice? Hit the button and away she goes. It’s only fair, if they can’t talk they lose their allah given right to dump a bad wife.
Okay. The wife discusses the situation with her close friends and they disclose it to the thought police. The Christian apostate in Afghanistan goes to see his family and his wife and daughters turn him in for being a Christian. This is a sick, sick belief system, not unlike communism or nazism. It's time to wipe Islam-ism off the map.
I feel sorry for this couple's poor kids.
Mohammed, the holiest of Holy Prophets who spent much of his time holding forth on divorce, toilet procedures, shaving, and dog killing. So terribly sophisticated.
Now, if the husband wanted to dispute his exclamations during sleep, he could have done so. His testimony would have been worth more (i.e., had more weight) than hers in idlamic law, so she could not have prevailed. Evidently, he really did want the divorce.
You dont get it i think, you simply cant dispute "talaq" once you have uttered it or else you go to hell or somethingy. There was one case last year when guy under influence of alcohol "divorced" his wife but didnt really mean it. He still wasnt allowed to live with his wife.
They had been married eleven years. Now according to Islamic law they cannot remarry until the wife marries another man, consummates the marriage, and is again divorced.
For starters she wont be allowed to marry any guy until a certain number of period cycles get over.
From the article quoted by Archimedes
The initial speculation about the motives were funny. Even funnier is a couple with no marriage problems having to go to a family counselling center.
One suggestion: accept the boycott, apostate, and move to a non-Islamic country... Oops.
I am sorry but all possible antiIslamic cynicism aside, this HAS to be the greatest pile of rubbish that I have hear from the koranic dulled morons. Maybe he was just snoring? Or has musical flatulence?
How can anyone take these morons as intellectual equals let alone civilisation equals?
I just love Muhammad's(may he rest in Hell) 18 metre high camel. What had he been smoking?
Do we have an official Islamic statement about the word being flat also?
If they were not so determined to destroy the rest of us you could die laughing at them already.
As funny as this sounds... this is a big problem for Indian muslim women. There are many womens' rights organisations in India fighting the mullahs and asking the government to tighten the muslim divorce rules or completely do away with application sharia for divorce.
For starters... You can send triple-talaq in a e-mail or SMS or phone or IM and be done with your marriage in India and the mullahs accept it as valid divorce. This has happened for real with SMS & e-mail and many women have been in trouble.
I hope the Indian government intervenes and makes life a little less tough for the muslim women.
On a more serious note, to do anything about this, the Indian government has to first treat them like normal citizens. Instead, the ruling Congress had, from the onset, handed them over to the various Islamic Shariah outfits in exchange for their political support. Given that political reality, and the fact that nobody wants to de-ball this constituency on the old "secular vs. communal" argument, things will stay as they are.
It would be interesting to see what happens should any Muslim ever want to openly apostate.
Funny, isn't it, that in an Islamic court of law, a woman's testimony is vastly subordinate to a man's, yet here we have a case of a lone female bearing witness to what her husband said in her sleep and it stands on its own for the purpose of this Indian Sharia court.
Now the same provision exists in Judaism that a man may divorce his wife by thrice uttering the words, "I divorce you," but it has to be done in the wife's presence and before witnesses.
But then the Jews corrupted God's words and instructions...
/sarcasm
Waterdragon, I'm an Orthodox Jewish woman and we do NOT have the tradition to say "I divorce you" three times. That is total nonsense. Divorce in Jewish law is not a ritual but is rather a purely legal process -- a certificate of divorce (called a "get") is drawn up by a court of rabbinic judges, and it is delivered to the woman. At that point, the couple is divorced.
Everytime I hear about the islamic version of divorce I am reminded about a routine Steve Martin used to do as "The Wild and Crazy Guy" character in it he describes divorce in "his country"
"The man says 'I break with thee, I break with thee, I break with thee' and then you throw dog poop on her shoes." He then goes on to say that him and brother would go to the singles bar and "look for the girls with dog poop on their shoes".
Islam everything but the dog droppings.
That should be "has everything but"
Islam - the 'religion' that leaves people totaled and unconscious - whether awake or asleep.
Mr. Ape Pig ... How did I miss your post? I'm laughing so hard :)
Note: This was not a plot by the woman to get a divorce, nor by the man to swap his wife around. Both announced that they would ignore the ruling. This is why it made the news - the imams are insisting they are divorced, and they are refusing and still living together. Also, this is not the first time a "sleep divorce" has happened, it was reported in Iran a few years ago.