Man faces death over Christianity

State Department and that smiling dufus Noah Feldman forgot to read the fine print in the Koran.

This is the latest campaign from the Barnabas Fund for persecuted Christians.
http://www.righttojustice.org/
It is not specific to Mr Rahman but so far it's the best I can find.

And they keep saying that islam is the ROP. When are people gonna wake up. They'll more than likely kill this man. And the rest of the world will just close there eyes.

Here is the FoxNews link to that story.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188364,00.html

Enough already! Everybody out now!

No troops. No NATO. No Jizya. No "programs". NOTHING.

I have read a lot of bad things on this site, but this one beats all.

In fact it is not possible for me to indicate on this site what I really think of this situation.

To do so would expose me as one of those persons whom I believe George Bernard Shaw described as having a "limited vocabulary".

Suffice to say that it sickens me to know that western democratic nations had a hand in this.

The hell with you, Karzai!

From the article:

Several legal officials said they could not recall a previous prosecution for abandoning Islam in Afghanistan.

... except during the reign of terror under the Taliban. Shari'a has proven for more than a thousand years that it is synonymous with tyranny. Few ideologies ever conceived throughout human history have been more destructive to the common weal. Where there was once wealth, shari'a brings poverty and hunger, where there was once peace, shari'a brings war, where there was once life, shari'a brings death, where there was once freedom, shari'a brings slavery, where there was once knowledge, shari'a brings ignorance, where there was once justice, shari'a brings oppression, and where there was once joy, shari'a brings profound sorrow.

As long as Sharia Law is allowed to exist in either country and our policy makers and diplomats are blinded by their own wishful thinking this is what we have to look forward to.

My cousin is going over in a month or so and I hate to think that this is what he is eventually going to end up fighting for.

It does the heart good to see that the blood of US warriors was spilled to liberate the people of Afghanistan (and other incipient democracies in the ME) and allow freedom to flourish in these formerly benighted places.

Who says that democracy and Islam cannot coexist?

From the link to Fox given by "disciple" above:

"The defendant, Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family went to the police and accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told the Associated Press in an interview. Such a conversion would violate the country's Islamic laws.

Rahman, who is believed to be 41, was charged with rejecting Islam when his trial started last week, the judge said.

During the hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago when he was 25 and working as a medical aid worker for Afghan refugees in neighboring Pakistan, Mawlavezada said.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects their religion should be sentenced to death.

'We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law,' the judge said. 'It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty.'"

And meanwhile Abe Hooper and his ilk at CAIR are fuming over some cartoons and filing "hate-crime" reports with the FBI on behalf of Muslims who feel bad over the Koran being placed on a low library bookshelf.

Honestly, what ISN'T an attack on Islam? After finding out that they are building a giant mosque in the Netherlands, I think I've just about had it with the religion of peace. No reform. No jizya. No diologue. Kick them out, cut them off, and let them starve. Every single day there's something that offends the ummah. Enough.

What a vindictive awful God they have. I cannot imagine anyone being told if the situation were reversed that they would be killed for converting to Islam from Christianity.
Sharia law and freedom are incompatible, how has our country allowed this to occur. I hope that Secretary Rice or President Bush hear about this and intervene. The crime conversion the penalty death. The Muslims want the world to see them as the ROP, well they better start acting like it, or the world will finally wake up and see for themselves the lies.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."
Not against any particular religion, it sure doesn't look like it to me. Their religion is so weak that they cannot handle one man converting from Islam. It sounds like the devil to me.

The outrage over a cartoon, let's see if all the moderate Muslims start to protest this. Christians and Jews believe that mankind was created in the image of God,hence harsh penalty for murder, Muslims do not. So therefore it is okay to murder anyone you disagree with or that comes from a different religion.

If you are Muslim reading this, ask yourself this, what would Jesus do? Than compare that to the Koran and ask yourself what would Mohammed do?

ROP, I don't think so. Where in the world are such atrocities happening? At the hands of Muslims against non Muslims.
If you are a moderate Muslim, speakout, protest in front of the Afgan consulate or embassy. Show yourself now, this is the perfect opportunity.

Smooth Karzai, oleaginous Karzai, Our Man In Kabul Karzai, forever blotted his copybook when he emerged from the anti-Infidel antisemitic rant of Mahathir Muhammad at a meeting of the O.I.C., and declared the speech "splendid." That was it. He could have remained silent. He could have said, with studied ambiguity, "a speech about Muslim weakness that provokes thought." He could have said "it is a speech that is certainly controversial." He could have said "No comment." He could have had an aide say "Mr. Karzai is currently unavailable" or "Mr. Karzai will not be able to speak to you now, for he has a pressing meeting."

But no. Karzai praised that awful speech. And the most attractive purple-and-green robe, the most sincere smile, the outrage at the Taliban, will simply not do enough to offset the hint of his "sorry-just-can't-go-the-whole-distance" and "I-have-to-remain-in-the-end-true-to-Islam-and-to-the-Mahathir-Mohameds-of-this-world" attitude.

Sorry, that's no longer acceptable. The West, the Infidels, can't accept that.

And as for the judge above, his name sounds familiar (is there a hint of a Sufi whirling-dervish or mevlevi contained in his name?). Possibly he has been involved in previous examples of Sharia-based intolerance. The Afghani equivalent of Judge Khalkhali?

Thought so.

From "afghanobserver.com" of Dec. 24,2005:

"KABUL (Reuters) - An Afghan journalist jailed for writing articles deemed blasphemous to Islam has had his sentence cut and been freed, a senior judge said on Thursday. Ali Mohaqiq Nasab, editor of "Hoqooq-e-Zan", or "Womens' Rights" magazine, was detained in October and sentenced to two years in jail, sparking protests by human rights groups.

In an appeals hearing on Wednesday, Nasab said he "was a Muslim and not an apostate" and that led to the reduction of the sentence to six month, suspended, senior judge Mawlavi Ansarullah Mawlavizada said.

"The remaining period is suspended and he will be under the watch of the government to make sure he does not repeat what he had written," he told Reuters.

Nasab, a minority Shi'ite, had published several articles that prompted Shi'ite clerics to call for his arrest and some even suggested he should be stoned to death.

He had written that abandoning the Muslim faith was not a crime and should not be punished by death and that adulterers should not be flogged.

Nasab's release followed repeated calls by rights bodies and a planned strike by an Afghan journalists' union, but Mawlavizada said it was not the result of outside pressure.

Two years ago, two journalists were sentenced to death for blasphemy but managed to escape from jail and obtained asylum in the West."

He had written that abandoning the Muslim faith was not a crime and should not be punished by death and that adulterers should not be flogged.

Good grief! Was there no end to the man's perfidy?

Maybe this heinous act by the Muslims will have more of them speaking out, like the reporters in the posting by Hugh, of course it will take brave souls. The penalty is harsh just to speak about the shortcomings of Islam.

Afghanistan

Legal system:
according to the new constitution, no law should be "contrary to Islam"; the state is obliged to create a prosperous and progressive society based on social justice, protection of human dignity, protection of human rights, realization of democracy, and to ensure national unity and equality among all ethnic groups and tribes; the state shall abide by the UN charter, international treaties, international conventions that Afghanistan signed, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
From : http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html

Should I be surprised that their constitution is as contradictory as the Qur'an.

Afghanistan

International Religious Freedom Report 2005
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

.....Blasphemy and apostasy (converting from Islam to another religion) fall under the latter category, and are--in theory--punishable by death.
From : http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51615.htm

Our government is!

One horrifying aspect of this is that a post-Christian culture may say, "Whatever!" The State Department and others will want to consider this man's plight as the internal issue of a sovereign state.

The right of a Muslim to convert is an absolute human right; but I believe that Muslim nations refused to include this in a UN document that defines such rights.

Am not sure that the following idea is altogether logical or practicable or just: but can we step away from the belief that forcibly expelling Muslims is against their human rights? Maybe a trade-off is possible: we offer to take converts; but we send away those who insist on bringing Islamic political philosophy to the west.

No, huh?

One despairs of this world. A nation gives (or used to give) homage to a man-God who sacrificed all. That once-Christian nation liberates a Muslim one, but will not protect a man who tries to escape a dark, mafia-like system that is the source of so much grief.

My cousin is also involved in this struggle with the U.S. Marines in Iraq. I would hate to see him fighting just to have Sharia take over that land. He is a Christian!

I would hate to see him fighting just to have Sharia take over that land.

I'd think you could take that as read.

But I guess one can make a case that the war was necessary in any case. Saddam certainly deserved it - and, prevailing "wisdom" that this couldn't happen to the contrary, he had contacts with Islamic terrorists:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004782.htm

I think the worry has to be that sharia "law" (sc. system of repression) will also be making its appearance in places like Sweden sooner rather than later:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010631.php#more

My small attempt at humor

Seymoure Paine (PBUM)

Hugh posted above some further extracts from the link to Fox given by "disciple" above, including:

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."

No, they are against all of them.....except islam.

Yojimbo, I have been listening to the accounts of these tapes and papers on talk radio. I know that we had to take out Saddam and his ilk. I just hope that these papers get further attention from the MSM or else it will be the same people still maiking the case against Saddam. I would think that from this at least the rhetoric "Bush lied people died" would end.
This particular story hits some buttons with me since I am Christian and I have a family member in the war. I had to spew a little bit at first. However, I will intellectually be in the fight for sure now that I have vented.
For my cousin: Semper Fi.

If this man is killed, he will be a true martyr, a true witness to the Truth in the midst of a sea of barbarism that confuses martyrdom with blood lust. For those of us who are Christians we have a twofold duty: (1) work to get our government to stop using the military to set up Islamic theocracies; (2) rejoice in the beautiful and powerful witness of a fellow Christian who knows the true source of real peace.

Thanks Tom, may we be so brave if that were us.

OT, but - Oh, for goodness' sake, Steyn:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn191.html

Even with Iraq decending into anarchy he still can't let go off the neo-"conservative" idea that "democracy" is a readily-exportable commodity.

"When you're up against a globalized ideology, you need to globalize your own," he says.

And if people don't want it and won't take it? And what makes him think what we really have is an "ideology" - something packagable - as opposed to a form of life, anyway?

http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/oakeshott-rationalism-politics?embedded=yes&cumulative_category_title=Michael+Oakeshott&cumulative_category_id=Oakeshott

I used to respect this guy.

Just one question: Where's Born-Again Bush on this one?

I propose we try to harmess the power of the internet in an attempt to save Abdul Rahman's life and to free him from captivity.

I suggest each reader write a letter to the editor of their local and regional newspapers to call attention to this latest islamic travesity.

I suggest each reader write a letter to their respective congressman and senator calling attention to the plight of Mr. Rahman and asking what, if anything, will be done by the US gov't on this man's behalf.

I say without fear of contradiction that men like Pat Tillman did not die in Afghanistan in order to provide the Afghans with the freedom to jail and murder the likes of Mr. Rahman.

If other readers have any other suggested actions please advise.

So, we have spent billions of dollars and hundreds of our soldiers killed, and many more maimed for life, to install and support governments that enforce sharia law that mandates the killing of Christians. The time has come to re-define our goals, our values, and our objectives in the war on terror. If this is the end product of all our efforts then it can only get worse from here. My son just joined the Marines, what exactly are they fighting and dying for? My mind aches and breaks with all this Muslim double talk crap.

Hello, I come from "Spell-Watch" and wish to inform the author of the headline piece that "apostasy" is misspelled as "apostacy".

(Knowing the Greek from which the word is derived helps: the "-stasy" part is from the same root as the English "stasis", which can mean "standing firm" or "unchangeableness"; and the "apo-" means "away": hence, "APO STASY" = "moving away from standing firm".)

When will the UN reproach the Islamic world for ethnic cleansing, aparthied and religious persecution of Christians?

"My son just joined the Marines, what exactly are they fighting and dying for?....all this Muslim double talk crap.
"
-- from a posting above

Tell your son it is not becasue of some gobbledygook about a misnamed "war on terror." It should properly be defined as a counter-Jihad, a war to prevent the spread of a belief-system, and the aggressive proponents of that belief-system, that threatens the laws, customs, manners, and understandings of all Infidels. Tell him to learn as much as he can about the tenets of Islam and the history of Islamic conquest. Send him the books of Spencer, Bat Ye'or, and others. Have him educate others. The generals apparently are too old to learn new tricks, and are too much, some of them, careerists (for who gets to rise in the ranks, if not those who parrot the party line), and are stuck in the esposito-michael sells-armstrong mud of apologetics.

As for that "Muslim double talk" -- the "war on terror" is nonsense that comes not from Muslims, but from Infidels. Ask yourself if, had you been alive in World War II, you would have been satisfied to hear a Fireside Chat in which FDR said "our war against the blitzkrieg" proceeds in France and Italy. No, you wouldn't. And you would know why.

Because the Administration initially failed to learn enough about Islam -- lack of knowledge can be excused up to 9/11/2001, but is not excusable, in any government officials, whose first duty was to rmeedy their own considerable ignorance -- it never understood that the only argument that made sense in invading Iraq was not that there was a necessary connection between Al Qaeda (merely one among many similar groups, and not even now the most important or necessarily the most dangerous) and Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was most interested in Saddam Hussein. They he was interested in his friends and relatives from Tikrit. Then in the Sunnis of Iraq. Then in being King of the Sunni Arabs. The idea of Islam conducting a world-wide Jihad was simply beyond his ken, not that he wouldn't have minded it, just so long as he could be King of the Caliph's Castle -- in order words, Mr. Big.

The failure to understand Islam meant that all sorts of goofy or messianic ideas were proposed and, in being proposed, believed. The belief that "democracy" is a plant easy to transplant to stony soil, with no thorough investigation of why Islam appears to favor despotism, since only Lebanon (with a large and powerful Christian presence) and Turkey (with 80 years of Kemalism, i.e. systematic constraints put on the political power and influence of Islam) have shown signs of tolerating, to some degree, a version of democracy. Not the full-fledged Western version, but at least the head-counting and to some degree, some legal protections against the force of Islam and the Sharia.

The failure to understand Islam meant that we would try to help Iraq, rather than to simply remove the dictator, and leave Iraq to dissolve, as it inevitably would, no matter what the Americans did (this was perfectly foreseeable in 2004, and had nothing to do with what the American policy was, or how long its presence lasted -- civil war became inevitable when the Sunni despotism was removed over the 60-65% of the population that is Shi'a, and deeply resentful, justifiably, with its previous treatment, and by the 20% of the population that is Kurd, not ethnic Arab, which is deeply resentful, justifiably, with ditto.

And the failure to understand Islam was accompanied by a failure to recognize, fully, the depth of that Shi'a resentment, and the depth of the Sunni rage at the perceived loss of power, and the depth of Kurdish desire to move from local autonomy to indepdnence. Very few intelligent people employing their intelligence in Washington. The Administration was wrong, and so -- horribly -- have been almost all of its critics.

Except here, where the most consistent, unrebuttable, criticisms, based not on a desire to appease or ignore the menace of Islam, but to take it, and the instruments of Jihad, all into account, and to figure out the thousand ways, little and big, from threatening Iran not only with destruction of its nuclear facilities but, as a delayed resutl, with dissolution (the Azeris, the Baluchis, the Kurds, the Arabs all rising), or in Europe, supporting intelligently those who, in each country, have perceived the menace and understand the kind of things that need to be done, but still lack political power.

To All:

The Dubia ports deal was stopped because common Americans raised hell with their Congressmen and Senators.

Do some additional postings where it will do additional good. All Congressmen and Senators are listed in the following link.

http://www.conservativeusa.org/mega-cong.htm

Following is an email that I just sent to my Congressman and both Texas Senators.

The screaming wheel will get action from Congress.
___

My wife and I have been staunch Republicans our whole lives.

We will be supporting and voting independent and Democratic if decisive action is not taken by the Republican members of Congress to correct the problems with the failed policies of the Bush administration. We will be working with our fellow Republicans concerning failures by Bush and the Republican party. In the Republican Primary just held, we did not vote for any incumbent. Look at the number of votes cast and the number of votes that you received.

The Dubai ports deal failed because of the public outcry by common Americans.

The public outcry is coming again. Americans, both Democratic and Republicans, are feed up with President Bush and failures on the Gulf Coast, the lack of protection in America, the constant invasion of America across our borders and continued failures in the Middle East.

Is this what America and Americans have sacrificed and died for????????

Fox News
Afghan Man Faces Death for Allegedly Converting to Christianity
Sunday, March 19, 2006
KABUL, Afghanistan — An Afghan man who allegedly converted from Islam to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.
The defendant, Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family went to the police and accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told the Associated Press in an interview. Such a conversion would violate the country's Islamic laws.

Rahman, who is believed to be 41, was charged with rejecting Islam when his trial started last week, the judge said.

During the hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago when he was 25 and working as a medical aid worker for Afghan refugees in neighboring Pakistan, Mawlavezada said.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects their religion should be sentenced to death.
"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."

Here is the Fox News link to that story.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188364,00.html

Is this satisfactory to you that the Islamic rulers of a Islamic country that America has freed will sentence and execute a man because he became a Christian???

Just how peaceful of a religion is Islam???

Nearly 3,000 dead American solders and over 400 billion tax payer dollars wasted to “free” Afghanistan and Iraq.

How much longer will Americans bleed and die for this failed policy?????

How far would the 400 billion dollars have gone
1. To protect our borders and deporting those that do not belong in American???
2. Rebuilding the Gulf Coast???
3. To develop alternative fuels where the Middle East no longer has a strangle hold on America and the world???

It is time to cut our losses in the Middle East, bring our troops home and start protecting and rebuilding America……………
___

The pen is needed now.

Remember: The screaming wheel will get action from Congress.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Just came across this - at least here's one more good thing to come out of the allied presence in Afghanistan:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1449848.cms

I suppose someone has to stamp on the vipers' nest. I feel humble when I think of the men who do.

I think we really shot ourselves in the foot when we went along with sharia law in Afghanistan and Iraq. How can you have anything resembling a democracy when you allow any segment of the population the right to chop off hands, feet, and heads for perceived infractions?

The generals apparently are too old to learn new tricks, and are too much, some of them, careerists (for who gets to rise in the ranks, if not those who parrot the party line)

This has become very clear to me after reading Killer Elite: The Inside Story of America's Most Secret Special Operations Team, which I'd recommend to everyone. These people spent 25 years building a superb intelligence-cum-special-forces capability only to be sat on by the generals at every opportunity.

The generals were afraid of things going wrong; afraid of damaging their careers. The generals were playing what the British call CYA (Cover Your Interests). It wasn't until Rumsfeld told the US Army that he wanted this kind of capability that the senior army figures woke up and realized that it was dangerous to their careers not to pursue these options.

(BTW, interesting also to read in this book that special operations in the Balkans aimed at grabbing Serb leaders - using, mainly, US special forces intelligence and SAS and Dutch snatch squads - were less successful than they might have been because the French consistently tipped off the Serbs. What on earth is the matter with the French?)

The religion of peace at it,s best,it just shows you what the west is up against and what is going to be facing Europe within the next 50 years.

Muslim leaders keep telling us Westerners that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance, and that the Koran teaches respect for Christians. Funny thing, this "respect".

Fact: Islam is, by definition, intolerant. Much information about that aspect at The Truth Project.

well l just came back from the Detroit kennel club, and crossing over into Windsor, up the main street, was about a half block of shite muslims with signs of humanrights. blah blah usual muslim BS, and l gave them the salute! funny thing they have all the freedom in Canada, and yet this poor man in Afganistan will certainly die for just being Christian! l was with a friend, who just knows a bit about islam, she is a head librarian, any how l just emailed her this story..l asked her to order Robert's book for the library..

By allowing them to install sharia law, we are giving the green light to islam's law, a law we should not support.

It will continue to fail as long as we look the other way.

It seems in Iraq also, we have laid the groundwork for sharia oppression. Hear about Iraq from the most modern, 'moderate' and progressive Iraqis, the 'hope of the future' who must go to Cairo to kiss their wives in public.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11877987/

The various militia who de facto will control Iraq are already 'religious police'. Who are we liberating? I think we are liberating nightmarish Genis from bottles.

Hulegu Khan

"Few ideologies ever conceived throughout human history have been more destructive to the common weal. Where there was once wealth, shari'a brings poverty and hunger, where there was once peace, shari'a brings war, where there was once life, shari'a brings death, where there was once freedom, shari'a brings slavery, where there was once knowledge, shari'a brings ignorance, where there was once justice, shari'a brings oppression, and where there was once joy, shari'a brings profound sorrow."

Great summation

Disciple -

Good post! Muslims may not know what Jesus would do, because I don't think they read the Bible.

When Jesus was placed under arrest, prior to being crucified, one of his disciples, Peter, drew his sword, and cut off the ear of one of the Roman soldiers in defense of Jesus.

Jesus responded by telling Peter, "No", and then He performed a miracle by immediately healing the soldiers' ear.

Luke 22:49-51

The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good to do nothing.

We should law the law down, if they plan on excecuting him then we will bomb them back to
the stone age where they belong.

This is so disgusting, where is the UN as this ia
one of the fundamental reasons for its creation, the protection of basic human rights. Where is
the MSM, they won't say anything as Bush is not involved, such a bunch of hypocrites!!!!

This is yet another example of the western leaders' failure to understand even the basics about Islam. (Or do they simply not care, or they are willing to make some major trade-offs?). It is well-known that Sharia (in many Islamic countries) calls for the execution of unrepentant apostates. How could our leaders have not known what they were getting us into?

The Koran does not explicitly state that apostates must be executed. However, this may be inferred indirectly from the following:

Disbelief is worse then killing a Muslim (2:217, 2:191), and the penalty for killing a Muslim intentionally is death (4:93). Verses 2:193 and 8:39 say fight them until there is no more fitnah, and the category of fitnah includes disbelief (i.e., disbelief in Islam).

Verses 4:89-91 actually call for the slaying of apostates (who had allegedly abandoned the Muslims in a battle) who oppose Muslims or who are not protected by peace treaty.

Disbelief is the worst crime in Islam, though execution is supposed to be used as a penalty for lesser crimes such as sedition/spreading false news (33:60-62).

Verse 9:111 says believers are under a divine contract with Allah (a contract which, Sura 9 makes clear, must not be broken) to slay and be slain for Allah. Believers keep their contract, but apostates have broken it. Believers are authorized to use practically any means necessary (8:60, 9:5, 9:41) to achieve the ultimate goal of Islam (9:33, 48:28, 61:9). Apostacy, together with criticism of Islam (i.e., blasphemy, sedition) are two of the greatest threats to Islam; hence the exceedingly harsh penalties. (If free and open apostacy and criticism were allowed, Islam as we know it would be in peril). Killing disbelievers is not forbidden in the Koran (disbelief is in the categories of fasad--mischief/corruption--and fitnah, and this excludes disbelievers from whatever protection might be imagined in verse 5:32; Allah has not forbidden the killing of unrepentant adult male disbelievers). Verses 9:12-14 call on believers to fight those who broke their oaths (apostates have done that) and assailed the religion (apostates have done that in the worst possible way), and Allah will deliver his punishment at (or through) the hands of the believers. In other words, believers can kill in Allah's cause. The historical context of 9:12-14 does not generally refer to individual executions but refers to battle. Nevertheless, it certainly does call for killing the heads of disbelief). And the principles still apply. In Ibn Kathir's tafsir of those verses, it is noted that it is better to kill one such person, i.e., a "head of disbelief", (to set a fearful example), than to kill 70 ordinary men. An outspoken or well-known apostate fits into that category. The passage 9:12-14, as one might guess, is popular with jihadists because it gives them latitude to kill just about anyone (non-Muslim or apostate) who makes trouble for Islam.

Unlike the Koran, some reports in the Hadith and statements in the Sira are unequivocal: Apostates must be executed, period.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Also
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 259

Ishaq:550 “The reason that Allah’s Messenger ordered Abdullash Bin Sarh slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized (rejected Islam) after becoming suspicious of some verses which prophet changed after his suggestions.”

Ishaq:551 The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination because he became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”

It is noir just Afghanistan but all over tghe muslim world Christians are being persecuted while the West deliberately turns a bloind eye.

Even Turkey that bastion of moderate islam, Christians are still facing persecution, even though they comprise barely 1% of the population. Yet at the turn of the last century, there was a significant presence of Christians in Turkey. So where have all the Christians gone?

Then there are the missing Armenian Christians of Turkey. What happened to them? Turkey, that great bastion of secularism and our "staunch" ally in the battle against totalitarian communism, denies all knowledge. Oh well, they possibly went on a holiday to Europe, and didn’t bother to report the matter to Turkey.

Anyway, according to Barnabus Fund, the few remaining Armenian Christians are facing yet further "persecution". As in the case of the Taliban destroying all signs of the presence of Buddhism in Afghanistan, the Turkish government is doing precisely that, by doing nothing to prevent the destruction of the few Armenian churches still left intact after the genocide that "didn’t happen". Churches are being converted to mosques, and according to a Barnabus Fund, a beautiful 10th century church, is being used for target practice.

According to Islam, real Muslims love death and are willing to demonstrate their faith by killing themselves and infidels together in what they call martyrdom -- the highest form of honorable death. So the following picture really proves it!

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060319/481/bag11903191930&g=events/iraq/082701iraqplane;_ylt=ApB50uScXMOvcLJ0RUBpDIUUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA-

all the Muslim talks about the peaceful religion of Islam is bullshit. Their actions speak louder than their words! The West now begins to wake up from the nightmare.

From LGF on a Swiss documentary

Saudis Helped Destroy Giant Afghan Buddhas

The Taliban went ahead with the destruction of the giant statues, revered for centuries, because they considered them “offensive to Islam”. They ignored appeals from around the world, including UNESCO and an appeal from the then Government of Pakistan, made, it would appear now, more “for the record” than any serious intent to stop the Islamist zealots from destroying what the rest of the world considered mankind’s heritage.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

and

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C03%5C19%5Cstory_19-3-2006_pg7_38

With all due respect to the Christians among you who are very offended by Sha'aria law, Moslems have been demonstrating their sense of superiority over other religions, even the so called "Religions of the Book" for centuries. Christianity has had the same sense of superiority and demonstrated it in equally malicious, but perhaps different ways. Both religions have forced conquered peoples to accept and convert and have destroyed indigenous belief systems.

We are fortunate to live at a time when Christianity has become more mature and has been led by several truly enlightened leaders. There was a time when Christians killed each other because of deviant interpretations of religious law.

As a Jew, whose people have until very recently lived with the threat of death from both larger religions, for not converting or not submitting to the superior status of the other, I find it very naive to be surprised that a Moslem nation would be so matter of fact in their attitude toward the consequences of conversion to another religion.

Jews have always been accused by certain segments of the world population for trying to drag the rest of the world into wars, simply because we don't have the luxury of such naivite. Well over thirty years ago, a friend, an ordinary Jewish person, predicted the events now taking place in France in an off hand comment to me.

The people spoke on the subject of Dubai and lo and behold our "representatives" had no choice but to bend to the will of the people. That is after all what they are supposed to do. This convert to Christianity or any other anywhere in the world should not die for his beliefs, just as we in the US do not interfer with Americans who convert to Islam. We should point this fact out to the organizations who criticize our way of life over and over again, because their focus on nonsense is meant to undermine our foundations. What would replace these foundations?

Sylvie,

(note: In an interesting coincidence, I'm heading to Afganistan soon on another military deployment. This travesty hits me in the gut after the many years of service. Primarily Christian, US soldiers risked and gave all to free Afganistan. Now to have the country kill Christians is the epitome of ungratefulness and pure evil).

Listen Sylvie, this is not the time to start comparing Christianity and Islam. A Christian man is about to lose his life for his religion. Though Christianity has some dark moments (and Judaism by the way. Go back to the first few hundred years of Christianity.), these were not based on reasonable interpretations of Christian scripture in the New Testament. Christians have repented for dark acts done in the name of the religion. We have asked for forgiveness and disclaimed any connection between the Words of Jesus Christ and acts like the inquisition or slavery or Crusades. For every dark act of Christianity, there were Christians on the other side attempting to put the religion back on a righteous course. Normally, it was political vs. religious issues driving the train. For example, Christian abolitionists were motivated to end slavery while southerners tried to co-opt the church over an economic matter. Virtually all the corrections within Christianity were brought internally. This is unique among world religions, particularly Islam. By the way, I respect Judaism and would support Israel to the death. Many Jews I know in Israel see Conservative Christians as their greatest ally.

There is no reasonable way to read the New Testament of the Bible and argue that Christians are to force conversions by force. Christians are to spread the Gospel with the knowledge that many will reject it (Those who reject it face their consequences before God, not Christians). Jesus claimed His kingdom was not of the world and to "give unto (National Sovereign) that which is (the National Sovereign's)" Paul and Peter further elaborated on the need for submitting to even non-Christian government authority. Christians are commanded, over and over, to love even enemies and forgive (turn the other cheek). Salvation (saving faith) comes from God, and therefore there is no way to force anyone into a conversion.

Christianity took the exact Hebrew Scripture as the Old Testament. "Salvation is from the Jews" as the holders of the Law and prophets in Christianity.

Islam claims to be the "final revelation" to Christianity and Judaism. However, the Koran and Hadiths distort and change the most important parts of the Hebrew and Christian scripture. Isaac vs. Ishmael. Mary as sister of Moses. Jesus claimed to be a "prophet of Allah" and wasn't crucified. etc. etc. The Koran, written over 600 years after the Hebrew and Christian scripture, gives 109 prescriptive commands to hate/kill "infidels". These commands really cannot be "reinterpreted" to mean something different. The New Testament does not have one such command. The Koran and Hadiths command armed conquest (if necessary) to make Islam supreme over all. It commands death to those who leave the "faith" or those who prosyletize Muslims. It does not allow for true separation of church and state, as does Christianity.

It is crucial for non-Muslims to understand these differences. There is little hope that Islam can "reform" along the lines of Christianity. The Christian reformation was a movement back to the early years of Christianity and true scriptural teachings (remember, for the first 300 years, Christians died by the thousands yet did not seek political power and would not use the sword in the name of God). For Islam to "reform" along the lines of Christianity, we would see a movement back to the early years of Islam: Conquest, Jihad, Murder, etc. etc. Jihad conquered the Middle East, N. Africa, Spain, Persia, much of Byzantine E, in the first century after Mohammed's death.

StillBreathing stated "One horrifying aspect of this is that a post-Christian culture may say, "Whatever!""

You totally underestimate the atheist/agnostic position. I've certainly signed the Barnabas petition, and could only have asked that as well as standing up for christians, it also stood up for all other religions and atheists/agnostics.

We will all be safer once it is easy and safe for muslims to make up their own minds and leave the faith.

To Sylvie: sure, most religions have their dark moments, and there are many places online to talk about them. This site is about the huge and immediate threat to western civilisation that Islamism represents.

Great post, hello123.

God bless you, and thank you for your service.

Amillennialist

This probably has nothing to do with Islam. In countries like this, Muslims use the blasphemy and laws like these selectively when they want land or to settle disputes that have to do with money. This guy has been a Christian for years...and all of a sudden he is turned over to the authorities. So as in a lot of cases like these in Pakistan and elsewhere, his family probably wants to get him out of the way to get property or something like that.

"This probably has nothing to do with Islam."

Mohammed said that apostates should be killed.

Mohammed ordered the killing of critics.

Traditional Sharia law says that apostates should be killed.

There have been numerous reports of people being killed when their conversion became known--not sometime later when somebody decided they could garner wealth through murder.

The fact that such murder is part of the foundations of Muslim tradition and law cannot be ignored.

Sad that this is happening. I believed everything our government told us about the WOT, but not anymore. Since 911 we've had an influx of mosques being built in the U.S. and much talk from our government about how "islam" is tthe ROP. I really feel betrayed by The White House and State Dept. Also I found if we call the FBI with a tip it's a waste of time. What a damn shame that sharia law should be allowed to continue anywhere in the world.

I've voted for Bush in the past two elections, I pretty much have voted Republican down the line (a couple of Dem.'s though) and recently I've been asking myself, why? I think maybe it's about high time that Democrats and Republicans joined arms and ended this ridiculous bi-partisanship and brought home our troops. Let the rallies come and let Bush acknowledge the American will or be impeached where we can get a more qualified person to step up. Just a thought.

As unpopular as this opinion no doubt is, in my view much of the criticism levelled at the inquisition is, to say the least, ill informed.

Posted by: Erik, you posted, sure l am diappointed with lots of stuff Bush did not do enough. but what on the other ailse do you have? Kerry,Hilary,Algore,
even though l am Cdn, the US president is very important to the world. Bush has put in some very good people, like Bolton, the head guy for the World Bankm etc. the Kerry's Hilary's of the world would of cracked under the protests, they rely on polls,and feel good answers. who on the right if you have voted more Republican could do a better job. as far as Democrats, they are aligned with MoveOn.org, the looney left, would feel more at home in Europe, UN, liberal Canada.
The left whined about the meddling Bush has done, so he did not press for a sharia free constitution. if the left for once would of went on what they say they believe, they would of pushed Bush to make sure no Sharia law came into effect. but their hatred for all Bush things, has them wanting the US to lose, and take the country,world down with Bush.
Bush is not being re-elected, so you have to push for a powerful man, such l believe would be ex mayor of NYC Rudy Guiliano (not sure of spelling).
take this only as guestion and l understand l cannot vote,but just have a thought on the matter.

The sentence will never be carried out, in the unlikely event that the matter ever comes to trial- precisely because the Afghans know what the reaction of the Americans would be if it were.

When the current regimes in Iraq and Afghanistan actually begin executing people for converting from Islam to Christianity, rather than struggling with the consequenses of having a an ancient, backward, savage religious tradition underlying their societies, the comments in this thread will make sense.

Until then, we will do well to continue fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan against the very tendency reflected in this possible prosecution, rather than making the Islamofascists the winners by going home and letting them take over.

Best not to respond to stories like this by emotion unfiltered through the old grey matter. Can any rational person believe that the Afghanis
would expect us to remain if this guy were executed- or even seriously punished?

It was right for the US to retaliate against Afghanistan. And de-baathify Iraq. And similarly debathify Syria, and destroy Iran's nukes.

But in retrospect, that's where it should have ended. The wrong conclusions were drawn from Afghanistan - that the anarchy there enabled al Qarda to make Afghanistan terror central. What enabled al Qaeda to make Afghanistan terror central was Taliban dominance, not a chaotic inconclusive war.

It was a mistake to draw up constitutions in Bonn, and the subsequent elections. Instead, having toppled the Taliban, the US, like Russia, Uzbegistan and Iran, should have armed all the various Afghan warlords if the Takiks, Hazaras, Uzbegs and even Pashtuns, and let them slug it out. Instead now all those factions are united, and here we see an Afghan sentenced to death for switching to Christianity. Only a matter of time before the Taliban decree on Sikhs to wear yellow clothing to stand out in the population gets re-implemented. Will India, for one, then regret getting so involved in something it had no business doing - Afghan reconstruction?

It would be very bad if, in a general recognition that something was not right in Iraq or Afghanistan, that something had been done wrong, that those who believe that what was done wrong was to wish to inflict any damage at all, rather than to think that what was wrong was the desire to do good, to think that imposing democracy in the Western sense, requiring an ability to guarantee equal protection under the law for all groups, and a whole series of guaranteed rights for individuals. And it was an even greater mistake to think that such a democracy, and such a unified nation-state of Iraq, even if achievable (it isn't), would further the case of the anti-Jihad, that is, weaken Islam. The only way to now exploit the situation in Iraq for the side of Infidels is to leave, not to stay, and there is no need to attempt to exacerbate ethnic or sectarian disputes or hostilities. No need, because the mistreatment of the Kurds is merely one example of the mistreatment of all non-Arab Muslims by Arab Muslims, as the Janjaweed in Darfur, and the Arab linguistic and cultural imperialism in the Kabyle, in Algeria, both demonstrate. And the Sunni-Shi'a split was not caused in any way by the Americans (this should be emphasized, lest Americans come to believe that they are responsible for the breakup of Iraq -- they aren't, or they aren't except in the sense that the only way for Iraq to remain a single state would be with a Dictator, and none is in sight sufficiently strong or ruthless to take the place of Saddam Hussein, and it would be immoral to wish such a despot upon Iraq again. There is nothing particularly bad about letting Iraq dissolve, certainly not for the Kurds or the Shi'a, who have nothing to lose, and nothing at all bad, but a good result, for Infidels if there were to be a continuing source of Sunni-Shi'a friction and hostility, involving other countries outside Iraq, and if a free Kurdistan were to prove an inspiration not only to Kurds in Syria and Iran (the Turkish situation being more tricky for American diplomats to handle, but hardly impossible), but to non-Arab Muslims also aware of Arab supremacism for which Islam has been a vehicle, another way of dividing and demoralizing the camp of Islam.

The worry is that the Administration, in being unable to admit that this would be the best thing, unable to recognize it, the prisoner of its own rhetoric and its own ignorance and its own timidity, will insist on having American troops remain. The end result: probably a spectacular election victory for all those who not only think we should leave Iraq (we should), but those who think we should leave Iraq for all the wrong reasons, and who will then proceed to make all those wrong reasons the basis of other policies having to do with Islam and Muslims in Europe.

That would be an even more terrible outcome, and the Administration simply must pull out, if for no other resaon, than to avoid that likely, and dangerous, political result.

Martel360, I like the looks of the link you put up here. Later this week, when I have the time I intend to read it all. Thanks!

"Can any rational person believe that the Afghanis
would expect us to remain if this guy were executed- or even seriously punished?"

No, that's right. The people who had the power to get sharia into the new constitution know that and guess what: they don't want the west there. They think along the same lines as the taliban, and full theocracy control is right up their alley! What the Afghani on the street wants plays little part in this decision.

"Our policy makers"

I hate to say this but most of 'your' policy makers are jews (yes, US is ruled by jews).
So the message from your policy makers is this;
"We jews don't mind christians being killed".

Maybe im a bit too harsh on this comment, but it does have a point in it (or a warning).
People do draw lines between two dots in a creative way, and that creativity might be greatly affected by threat to life.

Bu it's not my problem, it's politicians problem.. at least im hoping that im safe.. :)

Persecution of Christians in Turkey

In a country where media often portray the tiny Protestant community negatively, some news organizations here took notice when Muslims threatened Christians at a book fair last week.

Normally, Turkish nationalists threatening to hang local Protestants for operating a Christian literature stall at the Bursa annual book fair wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow. But it wasn’t long before Turkish television video and newspaper commentary was running. And some of that commentary only further fanned anti-Christian sentiment.

On March 8, five teenage members of the Nationalist Party Movement (MHP) at the book fair in the northwestern city of Bursa challenged Turkish Bible Society volunteers Samir Serkek and Vahit Yildiz for selling Bibles in a “Muslim country.”

“We’ll settle with you by tying ropes around your necks,” one young man said before they left the Turkish Bible Society stall.

http://www.acage.org/news/?day=03192006&id=0003

and in Kosovo

While we attempt to answer that needling question, note that in Kosovo Province, scene after scene of heartbreak spikes the believers' hearts as they wake up to cinders for a Christian church. It is unprecedented in that area.

"I have a feeling that we are really going to pay from the nose for turning the cradle of Serbian Orthodoxy into an abomination of desolation," one observed.

These sanctuaries have been scorched, not in time of battle, but five years after the media-saturated conflict. Nuns are left to live in burnt out boxcars. The Christian hallowed places have been sent into oblivion while UN protectorates are on site along with 18,000 NATO militia designated.

Thousands of Kosovo Islamics committed the sacrilege. Three thousands soldiers of the Bundeswehr Germany Army stood by in Prizzen and did nothing to stop the carnage. They did not shield a single sanctuary from destruction. It was, however, their obligation to ward off the fanatics. They did nothing of the sort.

http://www.acage.org/articles/?id=0157

I forgot to mention, or ask; Why "your policy makers" should have anything to say about the constitution of other countries?

I thought it's UN's job.

Islam is (still) the enemy.

Any questions?

Was wondering where eurobuddy got his stats from

What Did We Die For?

As Americans, we liberated the Afghans from the Taliban. Now we must liberate them from the intorance in their own culture. What have we died for if they can still persecute and kill anyone in the name of Allah?

Barry

for odin, king of the gods--and for anybody else interested:

re: "Who says that democracy and Islam cannot coexist?"
--from a foregoing post by me.

George W. Bush: “Some say that if you’re Muslim you can’t be free.”

[meaning that the "some" are misguided, according to G.W. Ergo: "You can be Muslim and free," according to G.W.]

If the pointed cap fits, wear it, G.W.

So much for the " War On Terror ". Where is the overhyped " Crusader " GWB's bold comments about "Freedom being under attack " now?

The cartoon protest were a blazen example of just that freedom being attack. As is the prosecusion of this persecuted soul in Kabul.

There can be no semblance of a " world peace " with Islamic regiems declaring war on all of humanity. Institutinalised religious barbarism must not be placated or tolerated much less supported by our government, such as this persecution being carried out in Afghanistan.

---Nossy

"I hate to say this but most of 'your' policy makers are jews (yes, US is ruled by jews)."

Wow, a real live anti-semite in our midst! Since jews are demonstrably some of the most educated, intelligent, humanitarian and liberal people around, if the world was really run by them it would be a better place.

Sylvie1 writes:

"Christianity has had the same sense of superiority and demonstrated it in equally malicious, but perhaps different ways. Both religions have forced conquered peoples to accept and convert and have destroyed indigenous belief systems."

Yes, yes, Sylvie1, good for you to state the obvious. But think critically, and you'll realize that the only reason they don't stone women to death in the street in Mea Shearim is because the secular Jews won't let them.

f 'your' policy makers are jews (yes, US is ruled by jews).Posted by: Eurobuddy
hey Eurobuddy, where do you get this wierd statement? the US policy makers are elected by the people,and within the elected government they have confirmations by the Senate, who are also elected by the people (Senators). if they elect Jews, its is a democracy. you have a problem with "Democracy"? or you would rather have a communist socialist country?
and Eurobuddy, you want sharia installed in Europe?

Lili,

eurobuddy sure as shootin' ain't MY buddy. He is either an old guard, dyed-(better would be died)-in-the-wool euro-antisemite or quizas(?) a musulman? Makes no diff. He just ain't got no use for Jooz. So, guess with whom he's siding? You got it!

Eurobuddy, Your brain must be oxygen depleted for you to make such remarks about the Jews. Please take a very deep breath and think it over.

Marwan'sDaughter your are dead wrong about the spread of "Christianity". most were spread by those preaching the Gospels in the New World. they were not forced by the sword, but by the bravery of Jesuit priests in New France. l should know as my ancestors are both French Canadian, and Native, my mother's grandmother was Alqonquin. They chose to be Roman Catholic, and later combined with Irish immigrants who were Catholic, every one up to that point had no trouble with living together and respecting differences. it is now changed with the clamor of islamic fanatics coming into Canada. they do now want to assimilate and use Canadian laws. They tried to introduce Sharia law in Ontario, and thank God it was defeated!

it should read "they do NOT want toassimilate and use Canadian laws.

"Can any rational person believe that the Afghanis would expect us to remain if this guy were executed- or even seriously punished?"

Posted by: Bob Waters at March 19, 2006 07:47 PM

Bob,

You may be right that this execution may not go through. But we need to keep in mind that it is the threat of such a penalty that is at work. Let's also not forget that, under the current system, blasphemers are still being imprisoned, and this is all happening while we are there. We could see something similar in this case. I wouldn't rule anything out. We do have a strong interest in staying there to finish off the Taliban and Al Qaeda (at least the remnants that hadn't already escaped into Pakistan).

I also agree that we should be in Afghanistan. Granted, there are remnants of sharia (sharia light--which is still harsh by our standards), and there remains a problem with the warlords, but there have been some positive changes: We're plowing under the (opium) poppy fields, more girls are going to school there now, there are women in government, the Afghans have more freedom than they've had in the past 15 years, etc. Iraq is a different story, and unfortunately too long a story for me to think about at the moment.

"The pen is needed now.

Remember: The screaming wheel will get action from Congress.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Posted by: Texican "

I'm putting your name on my ballot!

To hell with the death cult Islam.

The U.S. and the rest of the world should stop recognizing this execrable cult as a religion and work towards wiping out this abomination called Islam.

Isolate Islam in every possible way.
Demolish all mosques in the western nations.
Deport all Muslims from these countries.
Stop all Islamic immigration to the west.

It is not the United Sates or any other nation's responsibility to "rebuild" (as if there was anything there in the first place) Islamic nations after going to war with them.

If Islam wants to sow the wind then let them reap the whirlwind...and let them "rebuild" afterwards on their own... and to hell with anti-U.S. world opinion (as if it can get any worse anyway).

I'm a Christian who's tired of being politically correct.
To hell with Islam and their marxist PC buddies.

Let me restate what I said...the people who brought this man to court 16 years later...most likely did so not out of some holy concern for Islam...but in order to use the laws of Islam to accomplish their non-religious purposes. Just like the founder of Islam used his supposed visions to accomplish whatever he selfishly wanted at the time. The cases in Pakistan where blasphemy laws are used for this purpose are well documented. I find it hard to believe that this man was unknown as a Christian for 16 years. Why now is he brought "to Islamic justice"? The typical case of conversion bringing death usually happens when a conversion is first discovered...namely right away or shortly thereafter...with the family themselves trying to beat and torture the person back to Islam and then killing the person. This does not make sense that it happened now.

Where are the "moderate" Muslim protests against this "aberration" of the religion of peace? Now if cartoonists were to draw caricatures of blood thirsty Muslim mullahs as practicing human sacrifices (apostates) to appease an angry Allah, there will be world wide “moderate” Muslim protests if not riots.

"I forgot to mention, or ask; Why "your policy makers" should have anything to say about the constitution of other countries?

I thought it's UN's job".

Because it was US blood and US dollars that liberated Afghanistan while the UN stayed home with their knitting.

As usual.

tsweeney said

I think we really shot ourselves in the foot when we went along with sharia law in Afghanistan and Iraq.

By allowing them to install sharia law, we are giving the green light to islam's law, a law we should not support.

I think the mistake was made long before that. It should not have been a surprise, given our large intelligence services, that Islamic nations would want to live under Islamic law. It should not have been a surprise about what that means, including how Christians and Jews and Hindus would be treated. All's that is required is to crack open a Qur'an and read it. Or open a history book; 1400 years of examples are there for the perusing.

If we want to disallow shari'a law in the Middle East, that's a bigger proposition than any of our leaders have considered. That means facing Islam head on, not creating fairy tales about "a few extremists hijacking a noble religion". If you leave Islam in place, you are going to get shari'a.

If we remove corrupt dictators, it should be with the understanding that they will be replaced by new corrupt dictators or even worse, violent religious theocracy, unless we remove Islam's influence completely.

Since we're not ready/willing to do that, our goals should be modest and realistic. We shouldn't expect their governments to turn out like ours. We shouldn't be surprised when they quickly revert to stoning and stabbing and shooting each other over religious pretexts. Forget religious freedom, forget women's rights, forget democracy in any meaningful sense of the word, they're not going to exist under shari'a. We got rid of Saddam and the Taliban; the military operation was a success. We even gave nation-building the old college try. If they really were yearning for democracy and peace and freedom, they could've had it. But it's time to face reality, declare victory, and get our men and women (and materials and money) out of there.

This crazy religion, with it's crazy ideals, is so hard for me to get my mind around. Having lived my entire life in a free society, where I can choose and live out my faith without fear of being arrested and killed is something I've seriously taken for granted.

This is one very courageous man, because he must've known what was at stake before converting to Christianity - which says a lot about his prior faith - that he knows it's a full of death, hate and lies. For him to be willing to die for the cause of Christ completely humbles me.

I hate to say this but most of 'your' policy makers are jews (yes, US is ruled by jews).
So the message from your policy makers is this;
"We jews don't mind christians being killed".

I'll assume that first comment was more a result of ignorance than malice and suggest you read some background on the administration in the US before being so free with your opinions.

The second comment leaves me at a loss, and I'm inclined to wonder whether some posters will suspect you of being a Muslim agent provacateur. To me, and I hope most others here, Abdur Rahman is not primarily to be thought of as being identified by his confessional choices. I am happy, actually, to think of him as a Muslim, a Muslim who no longer wants to be a Muslim. This is not possible for him under the sharia system of repression. This is what should concern all good men and women.

I must say I too have converted from Islam to Judiasm. I realized my life was in error to the holy one and so I gave up being a Muslim.

I ask my brothers to also join me in bringing peace to the world.

I'd hate to say it 'cause I've yet to have my second cup of coffee this morning but this is what happens when the US tries to intervene in these countries. They wind up becoming entangled in issues which means more blood on their hands than they had originally intended to soak themselves in.

You cannot ride with the devil and expect he's going to compromise and be fair. He is a cruel taskmaster.

PJ

This is also an interesting point:

"Supreme Court judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada said the suspect, Abdur Rahman, was arrested after members of his family informed police of his conversion."

Shopped by his own family. He must have upset some of them.

Yojimbo-- thank you for the link to the Oakeshott article.

somebody should write a book on the entire history of Christian martyrs in the Islamic world. The book should be modelled after Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

lulu,

I read your response and I completely understand what you're saying. Now I am not what you would call a Bush basher (i.e.-everything bad in the world right now is his fault, including hang nails and no TP right after you've just had diarrhea) but I do call it as I see it. What I see right now is American money and youth being wasted to form two Islamic countries where they can kill my bretheren just because they believe in Jesus. And yes the Dems haven't helped with the war in those two states (Iraq & Afgahn.) but look at what happened...we give them the freedom to choose (democracy) and this is what they have chosen. I don't think we can blame the Democrats on this one, this choice was a people's "free" will. If we had forced anything upon them it would have been just as pointless (for freedom's sake that is). What we're left with is something quite ironic; two (democratically chosen) shar'ai states, with one on the brink of civil war..TIME TO GO!!

If only he remained a muslim he could bash his wife and daughter and what the heck! Burn down an embassy or two... The mind boggles.

JW, If there is any way to help this man please let me know. He is welcome to come spend the rest of his life with my family if someone knows how he can get out of Afganistan. I am disabled and my children and I live on very little but there is room to share. Someone please help me to help this man and show the world that we do care.

It is not suprising that a Christian man could lose his life in Afganistan. The Muslim world is fearful of the Christian faith because it is in truth the fastes growing faith. The Christian faith is growing bigtime in the global south. In time, this faith could even grow fast in the areas controled by the Muslims. So there is this growing fear.

The message I get from this: THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAMO-FASCISM AND ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY. NONE AT ALL.

Islam is islamo-fascism in the same way as a rose is a rose by any other name...

Don't let ANYONE tell you Islam is "peace" or anything other than Islamo-fascism. Clearly Islam's anything BUT peaceful. (Maybe it's a translational gaffe---Some say Islam is 'pieces' of dead bodies).

IN ADDITION IT IS perfectly clear that any place tethered to the Kuran WILL SOONER OR LATER TRANSFORM ITSELF INTO AN ISLAMO-FASCISM STATE. And that is what we are witnessing in Afghanistan today. It is not for nothing that Apostates of Islam refer to their ex-'religion' as "the cocoon of terror."

The one reason we might have to justify our position in Afghanistan would be to begin wiping out Islam out like the nightmare for mankind it actually and truly and unequivocally is.

bigcatgirl13106: please keep in mind that Islam has ALWAYS treated non-Muslims as we see here in this incident taking place in the supposedly newly-liberated Afghanistan. This incident is nothing new for Islam, really.

Islam's history is one of ruthless conquest, hardcore genocide against non-Muslims, repression, religious persecution, enslavement, torture and other horrors (at least to those who value human life). I recommend you read up on this as I am NOT misleading you. (Even the Crusades, maligned as they are, stemmed from the western world's concern over Islam's shockingly violent jihad conquests some of which were extending into Eastern Europe).

So please reconsider your view that the AFghani legal system's brutal treatment of this unfortunate Christian man is a new development as Islam faces oblivion due to competition from Christianity. Islam in this case is merely exposing its real, awful face.

I hope you can see that.