Moussaoui Death Penalty Case May Be Tossed

If these stories, and stories like the non-prosecution of Moutassadeq in Germany don't reveal the utter insanity of treating these warring enemies like common criminals - what will?

Fighting the Islamic Jihad is not a civil matter. It's a matter of unconventional warfare.

This is true of the actions and words of the Muslim spokesman or local Imam -- they are nothing more or less than propagandists and promulgators of their enemy ideology Islam -- the local Mosque and "Islamic Cultural Center" is their headquarters -- no more and no less than an epicenter of indoctrination, domestic insurgency, and war planning and operations. If the intent is to further their Jihad in any manner, then ALL transgressions committed by Muslims, including robbery, petty acts of violence, proselytizing for Islam, as well as direct acts of terrorism -- ALL are acts of war by Islam's enemy agents.

Some please explain this. A terrorist escapes the chair because the judge has a burr up her ass over a procedural matter?

My thx to the prescient comments before me re the need for military tribunals - they stole my thunder. So I guess I'll just go back to scratching my fleas.

First the port deal, now this:

U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema said it was "very difficult for this case to go forward" after prosecutors revealed that a lawyer for the Transportation Security Administration had violated her order barring witnesses from any exposure to trial testimony.

A lawyer? A "stupid" lawyer? Somehow, I can't buy that -- stupid people generally to make it to law school in the first place.

So is it much of a streach to consider that Zacarias Moussaoui could walk?

"curiouser and curiouser" -- we might end up having to pay him compensation for potential violation of his civil rights.

Hang on to your wallets!

"Procedural matters" is what our legal system is made up of. As opposed to "We all know he's guilty, git a rope and string 'im up!".

This wasn't a matter of not filling out a 1025-16-S form in triplicate with blue ink, it was coaching witnesses about what other witnesses said.

A lawyer made the mistake, and from what they are saying on the radio, everybody knows this is a major no-no and it never happens in any other cases. And the coaching was done via email, so there was sure to be a paper trail of evidence, no way to deny it.

After the cartoon jihad, would our government, or some part of our government, want to sabotage the death penalty for Moussaoui in order to avoid a violent Muslim backlash? Although Moussaoui was already convicted and therefore will never "walk", I agree with witness that this stinks like 2-day old halibut.

jsla said

ALL transgressions committed by Muslims, including robbery, petty acts of violence, proselytizing for Islam, as well as direct acts of terrorism -- ALL are acts of war by Islam's enemy agents.

I agree. Those who provide room and board to the terrorists, or drive the terrorists to the airport, or give speeches justifying violent jihad, or donating money in their mosque that they have a reasonable expectation that the money is going to jihadist groups, they should all be strongly prosecuted. We are only punishing the few jihadists at the very top of the pyramid, the ones who carry out the acts, but leaving the rest of the pyramid untouched, so it can just re-grow a new tip with the next generation of jihadists.

I am surprised that the trial has gone on this long.

PERFECT..........Just perfect. Just wait, the Dems will blame Bush for it.

He'll get life thanks to the odd behavior of these lawyers.

They should get something, too.

For forcing us to have to pay to keep this lunatic alive. (And the risk of his passing information in prison, or escaping.)

How about they pay to keep him alive... through a lifelong 'coaching' penalty.

The price of keeping their licenses.

Moussaoui should not be executed, but should receive a sentence of life without parole in prison. The reason for this is that the dominant aspect of the culture of the West, Christianity, does not regard its traditional support of the death penalty as set in stone. Increasingly, both liberal Protestants, many Jews (especially Reform Jews), and Protestants regard the death penalty as unacceptable for a variety of reasons. It's especially important that the world be able to see that the West is morally superior to Islam in many areas. The frequently expressed hatred and desire for the death of Jihadists expressed in this forum is an echo of the same mentality found in the Quran and the Hadith - hatred of enemies. The New Testament and Catholicism (the religion of Robert Spencer if I'm not mistaken) advocate another approach to those convicted of serious crimes. This is not at all to advocate pacifism vis a vis Islamicist violence. But once someone has been convicted, a life sentence might just give sufficient time for reflection and study leading to conversion. Imagine a book from a convicted terrorist entitled "How I Lost My Humanity By Believing that the Quran Was Allah's Word" or "How I Discovered That My Enemies Were Right About Islam". It is quite possible to fight against Jihadism and Jihadists without demonizing one's enemies, who, after all, are victims of a false religion. Multiculturalists and secularists who espouse ethical relativism aid and abet Jihadism by undermining the possibility of showing that certain religious claims are false.

The second time "Protestants" was used in the previous post should read "Catholics supportive of the teaching of John Paul II". Sorry.

Let him live a long life in prison, Bubba will treat him real nice, broke back mountain two, ride of the taliban. Squeal like a pig.

My own personal belief, as a liberal atheist, is that someone convicted of taking part in the murder of 3000 civilians should be eligible for the death penalty, in keeping with the current laws and historical precedents of the U.S. legal system.

If the courts decide to keep him in prison without the possibility of parole, that's okay too. If they decide to wrap him in pigs skin and dip him into a vat of boiling oil, well that's okay too. Did I mention he took part in the murder of 3000 people? That's alot of cheeks to turn, and I honestly don't find any compassion in my heart for him.

Imagine a book from a convicted terrorist entitled "How I Lost My Humanity By Believing that the Quran Was Allah's Word" or "How I Discovered That My Enemies Were Right About Islam".

Imagine a book from Moussaoui entitled "Nya Nya, I Killed 3000 People and I'm Having Ice Cream For Dinner Tonight", or "1,000 Ways to Build a Dirty Nuclear Device". Screw him and the devil he prays to.

Special guest don't candy coat it, tell us what you really feel.

Even if Moussaoui was executed, the government would make sure he just peacefully went to sleep and never woke up. He'd have plenty of time to settle his affairs and say goodbye to friends and family. And it would only be after decades of appeals to verify that he truly was guilty, and that he truly did receive a fair trial and all the legal benefits of our legal system.

Compare that to the deaths of the people (just like you and me, going to work in the morning) at the WTC. I'm not even going to describe the suffering those people went through.

And there's a moral equivalence there? Sorry, just don't see it.

The sad part is people will say we took the high road but the muslims will see only weakness.

This continues to prove the insanity in our Federal Courts.

The death penalty is not intended to be therapy.

Do I hear the "OJ Simpson Case" theme song playing? If there really is governmental tampering/ineptitude then, Moussaoui shouldn't get the death penalty.

Whats so bad about a few years rotting away in a cell so that he has the haunting horror of doubt in jihad, and years of realization that his efforts were futile. Then, hopefully, instead he will get some "Milosovic Treatment" and have a mysterious death in his lonely prison cell.

We'll prepare his body by soaking it in bacon-fat, and throw his entrails to the pigs.

It fascinates me that so many liberals support the death penalty. The only political party I ever belonged to was the Norman Thomas Socialist Party. But I'm a pro-life activist, believing with the atheist Nat Hentoff that abortion is prejudice against very little people. ALL the people in my pro-life group oppose the death penalty, and every pro-choice liberal I know supports the death penalty for terrorists.

patriot2,

You might find it astonishing that judges are expected to uphold the law. Your desire for "southern justice" for convicted terrorists might be emotionally satisfying, but it's precisely the ability to THINK about justice (as opposed to emoting about issues) that distinguishes us from the authors of the Quran and the Hadith. Their eschatology is designed to appeal to horny fourteen year old boys; their criminal justice system is designed to appeal to the kind of instincts that you seem to be unembarrassed to parade. Fortunately, as a rule the courts are in the hands of those who have a higher respect for the traditions of the West than you seem to have.

The Socialist Party favored some of the major contours of the economy being socially owned and operated for the sake of the common welfare. They favored doing this through the electoral mechanism, rather than through revolution (like the Communists). I joined the party when I was in my early twenties and left it by the time I was thirty-five. If you're not a Marxist by the time you're twenty, you have no heart; if you're still one by thirty, you have no brain. I'm a slow learner. LOL

patriot2,

The really sad thing, my friend, is that even the most horrific death imaginable for the terrorists would not give deep satisfaction to the walking wounded of the 9/11 catastrophe. IMHO, we shouldn't trivialize their suffering by imagining that they'd be able to "have closure" by an execution. It doesn't work that way. There are some people that went to the execution of their loved one's murderer. Far from getting "closure", they now spend their days going to executions. But some who've found the ability to forgive have been able to slowly rebuild their lives.

My thoughts are this, the courts and legal system will put this maggot in prison for life. Only because hes a muzzie they wont kill the bastard, like he deserves.Theyell be pc with this scumbag. If this was a regular American like old Timmy McVeigh he could kiss his ass good-by.

Tom you may think you are taking the high road, but barbarians do not understand that. l would make his death painless, but send him in ashes to muslim hell. its funny how some people are prolife. are you prochoice? so many liberals were against killing the guy in Calif. but dont bat an eyelash at killing an unborn innocent baby? you shed a tear for a terrorist, but what up abortion? mmmm besides if terrorists are killed they dont take up expensive space in jail, and dont get a chance to escape. you are saving more lives this way!

I personally, get aggravated that he has the same right to our laws, when, for one, he's not a citizen, and two, he would kill many Americans if he had the chance.

I still think he should be in a military court and let them do the trial and punishment.

I guess this man will now recieve life in prison where he will exist in material comfort, but because he wanted to kill in the name of religion, is there any legal reason why we cannot take away his access to the religion that he claims encouraged him to seek to kill? Take away his Koran, take away his right to pray with others, don't let him speak with immans, and let him in a lonely cell ask his god why this is now his life.

Sorry JZ this man will have his own cell. Three full meals and plenty of time to worship the shit he believes. And we as taxpayers and Americans who can tell right from wrong will have accept the fact. But the storm is brewing and real Americans are getting tired of this. same with all the illegal mexicans and killin little babies for nothing.

Sorry JZ this man will have his own cell. Three full meals and plenty of time to worship the shit he believes. And we as taxpayers and Americans who can tell right from wrong will have accept the fact. But the storm is brewing and real Americans are getting tired of this. same with all the illegal mexicans and killin little babies for nothing.

special_guest

"Even if Moussaoui was executed, the government would make sure he just peacefully went to sleep and never woke up."

Not anymore. Check out the Morales case in California, which is likely to go all the way up to the Supreme Court on constitutional issues.
Federal judge Fogel has decided that California's lethal injection does not ensure a pain-free execution.
The 17-year-old girl Morales murdered more than 25--I repeat: 25--years ago died in uspeakable pain, and her dying body was defiled by Morales, who, by the way, on the evening he was supposed to be executed, had a good appetite and dined on 2 pork chops, a BLT sadwich, a milkshake and a strawberry shortcake:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/21/MNGFFHCC787.DTL&feed=rss.news

Nuff said.

sorry for the double post

Taking my point one step further -

All people who kill because their religion told them to kill non-believers should be deprived of access to their religious supports while in prison (and I take a quiet satisfaction that this will apply more to muslims than catholics.) After all, should we let child molesters have access to child porn sites while in prison?

OT
I am pretty sure being Mexican isn't illegal. I myself am Nicaraguan on my mother's side. Hence, my tag - Zepeda. We came legally and my anglo dad spent a lot of money helping my mom's relatives come here legally. Even so, I am against all immigration for reasons that aren't pertinent to this site.

The only way to treat this disease seriously is in Military courts.

Public excluded.

I day trials. Next day execution for every one who aids and supports Jihad.

Stop this mockery of "Justice!"

I believe this judge is anti death penalty. She has proceduralized this case to death. All kinds of edicts and restrictions regarding the most trivia of procedures. A fanantical obsession with Moussaoui 'rights.' Not a citizen, in the country illegal, no matter, he gets more rights. Constantly giving the defense all the time it needs, never declining any of their requests, no matter how ridiculous. It is the perfect example why military courts should try all terrrorism cases.

ovidius_naso

Yep, unfortunately I know that sad case. And exactly the point: if the government thinks there is the slightest chance that Moussaoui will feel the slightest tinge of pain, they will not allow the execution to take place, regardless of his guilt, regardless of his crime. Moussaoui gets the full protection of our legal system, while the office workers in the WTC got none.

I just think, of all the people in the world, of all the injustices taking place, that someone would spend their time and energy worrying about convicted mass murderer Moussaoui. I guess that Martinez "Night Strangler" guy got all kinds of offers of marriage from women while in prison. Some people have a little too much time and love on their hands, I guess.

Lulu,

Apparently you didn't really read my posts. Yes, of course, I'm opposed to killing unborn babies! If I'm opposed to capital punishment (the killing of the guilty), then A FORTIORI I'd be opposed to the killing of the innocent. One of the cool things about Western culture as influenced by Christianity is that in some areas as time goes on society becomes MORE morally sensitive than it was in the past. So, for example, we don't flog soldiers and sailors anymore. And in most Western countries capital punishment has been outlawed. Muslim countries are really big on capital punishment. This is one way that the U.S. resembles Saudi Arabia. We need to distance ourselves more and more from the remnants of barbarism. The Europeans get this, despite their moral obtuseness about many other things.

Carla Martin will soon be Shepardizing briefs in some dank basement.

Speaking as a European, I'm not sure that we believe that capital punishment, per se, is actually wrong. I would suggest that what most people actually believe is that no system of law can ever be perfect enough not to execute the innocent.

Indeed, many reviews of so-called capital crimes have indicated that even the most flawless evidence has managed, far too often, to convict innocent people of a crime they did not commit - in some cases as many as two-thirds of all convictions were/are wrong.

In the USA the figures are no better and the legal system no more perfect than anywhere else, but it seems that many Governors, and other politicians, still play the politics of re-election with state killing of human beings in prisons - to European eyes a disgusting and barbaric spectacle.

However, at least the debate is always there in the USA. In mohammedan countries the debate simply doesn't exist, probably can't exist, because killing is allowed and mandated by the religion - just about the only religion to do so, I understand.

I was always taught that only Satan preached that killing was alright - that real God inspired religions taught that all killing was wrong and that if one had to kill then one had to atone and seek forgiveness. I understand that most other religions agree with Christianity that only Satan preaches that killing is alright and that seeing this as a creed or item of faith is one of the warning signs about a religion, i.e. indicating that it is not a God inspired religion. Mohammedanism preaches this, ergo mohammedanism is Satanism by another name, surely.

I think the judge has a future on the 9th circuit court of appeals. She would fit right in. Thats why Guantanimo Cuba was the place to put these guys.

I guess we should not be so quick to critize the Yeman penal system when they let the USS Cole bombers go. At least they, supposedly, snuck out the back door. We let them out the front door.

Maybe Carla Martin should be charged along side Mr. Terrorist?

This is not the judge's fault. It's the fault of an attorney who blatantly indulged in an egregious violation of proper procedure.

I am disgusted with the constant refrain of "oh, they're not REAL criminals, they're outside our definition of criminal, so let's dispense with due process, let's violate the Constitution, blahblah..." NO!!!!! We must adhere to our principles, because without them, we have shady moral grounds on which to criticise those who deserve it.

Patriot2 you are so right. I'm sick and tired of the way these countries treat Americans @ America. They hate our guts, but stand there with their hands out. What has happened to our country. We should wipe them off the map, as soon as they start their crap. The muzzies here in America will never assimilate to the American way of life and liberty, I thank God I live in the south.We dont have that many here in Alabama. People need to wake up.

Tom

I don’t recall the New Testament making any mention of “life in prison” instead of death?

Lets see...........

No death penalty, he goes to jail for life without parole and probably dies soon after getting to prison.

The court case takes forever, the legal councils get heaps of money now the judge is finding an excuse to preserve this little bastard.......who's paying her for that?????

Tom wrote:

"If you're not a Marxist by the time you're twenty, you have no heart; if you're still one by thirty, you have no brain".

NO, Tom !

I have NEVER been a marxist and this is because I have a brain AND a heart. When I was 15 years old I already understood that marxism only makes poor people poorer, and by the way makes everybody poor, except a few robbers.

Drudge is reporting that the Death Penalty is allowed to continue.

We acted like a principled, law-abiding and law-respecting country after World War II, when we took the atrocious war criminals of Germany and Japan and prosecuted them. We FOLLOWED THE LAW in doing so, and we were rewarded by being considered one of the rare, if not the only, country in the world that did NOT resort to the same low standards which we prosecuted.

Try renting "Judgement at Nuremberg", and listed very, very carefully to Spencer Tracy's speech at the end.

Yes, we did do our best to make the perpetrators of Pearl Harbor pay for what they did. However, we did so by following the law.

If we resort to the same contempt for life and law to which we ascribe our enemies, then we are in no way superior to them.

Don't forget the tens of millions murdered, imprisoned, and deprived of basic human rights by the wonderful, huggable, big hearted Marxists. Your little Socialist buddies, Tom, made the Mongols look like girl scouts selling cookies door-to-door. Like joiesauvage, I had enough of a brain and education before I was twenty to never buy that la-la land crap and to see your pet system for what it was. Next!

No prosecutor could be this ignorant of the law without an agenda of "purposely" violating standard procedures.

Our vocabularly must include the words of Infiltration and pre-emption relative to anything associated with terror.

This prosecutor's credidentials are now highly suspect. A Muslim or her connection to Muslims must be explored.

"In the USA the figures are no better and the legal system no more perfect than anywhere else, but it seems that many Governors, and other politicians, still play the politics of re-election with state killing of human beings in prisons - to European eyes a disgusting and barbaric spectacle."
-- from post above

Thanks for that typically cynical overly simple summation of the American electorate, and that cartoon analysis of the death penalty in America. One can only infer that we barbaric American masses, in a mad frenzy, and apparently hungering for blood will re-elect "Governors, and other politicians" to slake our limitless thirst for the ruby elixir...

I love the way some Europeans will parrot so perfectly and so relentlessly the poisonous cartoon disparagements espoused by their elite handlers in their anti-American media.

I especially love the delightful flourish... the one where the poster says: "However, at least the debate [about the death penalty] is always there in the USA. In mohammedan countries the debate simply doesn't exist..."

Well GEE! And Thanks for that characterization too! It's especially meaningful when you to notice that there is a difference between America and "mohammedan countries". You're too kind! Coming from a continent soon to be a large "mohammedan" continent -- I guess you'd be an expert at spotting the differences.