And the whole thing is enveloped in dhimmi fiction right from the start: "Seville was chosen to host the meeting because of its rich symbolism as one of the Spanish cities where Muslims, Jews and Christians lived in harmony under Moorish rule that began in the 8th century and lasted more than 700 years."
No doubt the Muslims and Jews there have no idea whatsoever that that harmony was based on the institution of the dhimma: Jews and Christians lived in Muslim Spain as second-class people whose contract of "protection" could be revoked at any time by their Muslim masters. Even Maria Rosa Menocal in her whitewash The Ornament of the World, the book that has become a principal foundation of this myth and which I discuss in my book Onward Muslim Soldiers, acknowledges this.
"Muslim, Jewish Open Congress to Talk Peace," from AP, with thanks to all who sent this in:
SEVILLE, Spain (AP) -- Muslim and Jewish leaders meeting in a rare face-to-face forum appealed Sunday to their faithful not to view each other as enemies and keep religion from being hijacked by extremists.''We have more common elements than elements which pull us apart,'' the chief rabbi of Israel, Yona Metzger, said as a four-day congress of imams and rabbis opened in this southern Spanish city. ''We have to continue to prove that Jews and Muslims are not enemies.''
Metzger, I hope you will be able to get that message through to those who believe things like this.
The meeting, called the Second World Congress of Imams and Rabbis for Peace, is being sponsored by Hommes de Parole, a peace foundation based in Paris....Seville was chosen to host the meeting because of its rich symbolism as one of the Spanish cities where Muslims, Jews and Christians lived in harmony under Moorish rule that began in the 8th century and lasted more than 700 years.
The first version of the congress was held last year in Brussels and since then ''things have not gone in the right direction,'' said Andre Azoulay, a Moroccan Jew who is an adviser to King Mohammed VI, apparently alluding to Muslim extremism.
''Our voices are not listened to, compared to those who can mobilize hundreds, thousands or millions with their message of hate,'' Azoulay said.
And why is that, Azoulay? When are you going to face the root causes?
Metzger said Judaism has fanatics, too. He noted an attack last August in which an Israeli soldier opposed to Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip opened fire on a bus in the town of Shfaram, killing four Israeli Arabs.
Metzger, to imply that such incidents, as few as they are, are remotely comparable to the global jihad network that has murdered thousands around the world since 9/11, is simply obscene.
Ahmad Taoufiq, the religious affairs minister of Morocco, condemned Islamic terrorism and said Muslim leaders are sometimes silent when attacks occur.''We have to separate ourselves from trends which are dividing the world into darkness and light,'' he said.
Metzger also addressed the issue, saying Muslim leaders have failed to criticize al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
''Why don't you speak out when bin Laden evokes your religion to justify terrorism? Why don't you express yourselves in a loud voice?'' he asked.
Why indeed?
Even if these particular imams are genuine and I doubt it, the other 99% will not be for any possible settlement or peace with jews and will take absolutely no notice of any possible reached agreement as there is no central authority regarding Islam to enforce it.
The lack of central control of islam makes me see muslims as headless chickens running around a coop in their thousands but these headless chickens are swinging axes with the koranic aim of beheading nonchickens.
"Metzger said Judaism has fanatics, too. He noted an attack last August in which an Israeli soldier opposed to Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip opened fire on a bus in the town of Shfaram, killing four Israeli Arabs.
Metzger, to imply that such incidents, as few as they are, are remotely comparable to the global jihad network that has murdered thousands around the world since 9/11, is simply obscene."
This oft-repeated bit of moral equivalence 'violence by both sides' blather coming from muslims continually pisses me off.
Following this logic I suggest the Americans hold a race relations conference in Natchez, Mississippi, the most active slave market in the antebellum South. Now there's some "rich symbolism" for you, of a romantic time when white and black people lived "in harmony" throughout the South.
These rabbis remind me of the cows with bells that are used to lead the herd into the slaughterhouse with minimum fuss.
This is all so wrong on so many fronts. Luckily, Robert got it down perfectly.
I would add this:
This notion is repeated and others repeat it as well, as if some of the animus comes from Jews toward Moslems, some sort of equality, when in fact all of it comes from Moslems.
Jews have no work to do here.
For reference, Rabbi Metzger's Pally counterpart at the conference is Imad al Faluji.
Source: yesterday's JPost.
I'm wondering how much of this foolishness, from Rabbi Metzger, is ignorance and wishful thinking, rather than kowtowing dhimmitude. Members of the Orthodox Ashkenazi community can be surprisingly insulated from secular knowledge of history, recent history, and current events.
The seemingly kneejerk moral equivalence attributed to Rabbi Metzger is quite galling. Nevertheless, it is unusual for a dhimmi apologist to also bring up an issue such as muslim lack of criticism of osama. This suggests to me that Rabbi Metzger is perhaps (breathtakingly) ignorant, rather than dhimmified. However, his unfortunate participation assists the jihadi dhimmification and disinformation campaign. Perhaps someone could bring this to his attention? Somehow? I hope he, himself, somehow reads this thread carefully, and gains insight.
I read a version of this AP story in the Jerusalem Post, but noticed that the lead-in link at JP (something along the lines of Gaza Imam and Jewish Rabbi preach tolerance) was not matched by the article content which lacked any such tolerant quote from any imam. Did any version of the article actually contain quotes attributed to a muslim imam, or cleric with religious prestige, rather than some government religious-affairs apparatchik?
People like to work against stereotypes. Jews were regarded in exile as unwarlike and cowering by non-Jews, and when Israel produced famous warriors, it was no doubt heartening, the same way that Sandy Koufax, presumably, lifted more hearts than did Nobel Prizewinners Otto Loewi or Konrad Bloch. So be charitable to the Jewish participants and to Rabbi Metzger.
Can you think of a better way to upend key elements in the ideology of antisemitism, with its focus on those conspiratorial, diabolically clever Jews, than to display the kind of credulousness and stupidity displayed in sunny Seville by Grand Rabbi Metzger? He must once upon a time have made a solemn vow to do what he could to combat the permanent condition or mental pathology of antisemitism. He's a Man of His Word, litreally an "Homme de Parole" as the article says. He's good at it. Why find fault?
If the Jews, whose religion was commandeered by Mohammad, cannot convert the Muslims back to the original, pre-Mohammad faith, what's the point?
Nothing else that Jews, alone, can do, will save Israel from Islam.
Religions with prophets can be taken over, by the internal logic of the faith, by a new prophet.
Jews denied Jesus' prophethood, so Christians, out of a similar feeling to "Abrahamic' Muslims, of both a guilty-conscience (for, in essence, stealing their core religion from another people) and the resentfulness of the 'young brother' whose older one will not acknowledge his new insight, struck back in vengeance. Climaxing in a holocaust.
The pogroms are familiar. Only the killers have changed.
Christianity was finally humbled, after centuries of internal warring over the non-essential aspects of the religion, and removed from governmental power.
Islam is not yet ready to admit that the flawed human vessel can only see itself clearly with humility, and then may only dare to hope to persuade another mind, -not cut off its head for disagreeing with your possibly-flawed idea.
Without free insight into their individual intelligences, Muslims will never be able to grasp the weakness of any Absolute Religious Argument by the very weakness of the human container. Intellectually, spiritually, psychologically, scientifically.
Islam teaches to restrict thought.
A self-fulfilling closed loop.
How will the Rabbis break it?
"credulousness and stupidity"
--from a posting above etc.
Yes, I agree with that characterization of Rabbi Metzger's behavior, but thought "foolishness" was more tactful and, umm, charitable, if not truly tactful, nor really charitable.
It is often difficult to calibrate criticism of one's hoped-for allies in order to send a desired message, and yet not alienate. Any insights, anyone?
Muslims and Jews open ongress says:" WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PROVE THAT JEWS AND MUSLIMS ARE NOT ENEMIES".
This is a pure 100 percent Taquiya trapo for the Jews. If the above statement to materialise,Muslims should discard their Koran and their Hadits,which explicitly commands to Muslims to be an Enemy of the Jew:
*When the Koran says that even the lifeless trees and rocks will tell to the Muslim that a Jew is hiding behind them,and to come and kill them.
* When Muhammed ordered for the killing of a Jewess Poet for writing poems against him.
* Mohammed was supposed to have poisoned by a Jewish lady,which led to his death.
* Koran describs Jews as desendants of Apes and monkeys.
Jews are clever people-Howcome they fall for such a cheap gimix like this. Will Iran change its policies and allow Israil to survive? Jews should be more vigilant.
This reminds me of the pre-Oslo days when the Peace Now people could always call out big rallies of Jews in support of 'peace'. The peacemaking however was always on side. On the Arab side one hardly saw anyone, and those that turned up were instantly taken up by the desperate as evidence that everyone could just hold hands and get along. And I would suspect that the majority of the Arabs who showed up were Christians who didn't read the memo.
No one here will be surprised if I reveal that Rav Metzger does not enjoy much of a reputation among his fellow rabbis. He was very much a compromise candidate for the exalted post that he holds. Various religious and political factions could not agree on a rabbi who enjoyed more esteem, like some of Metzger's forerunners as chief rabbi and Rishon l'Tsiyon, Rav Kook, Rav Nissim, Rav Uziel, Rav Goren, etc. The actual appointment was made by the Ehud Baraq cabinet, and what would one expect from a Baraq govt?
Some have considered Rav Metzger an embarassment before, but this takes the cake.