From with The Star Online with thanks to Mentat.
Marina Mahathir is an author, newspaper columnist and social activist, a Muslim, and the daughter of a former Prime Minister of Malaysia.
With the end of that racist system, people may be forgiven for thinking that apartheid does not exist anymore. While few countries practise any formal systems of discrimination, nevertheless you can find many forms of discrimination everywhere. In many cases, it is women who are discriminated against. In our country, there is an insidious growing form of apartheid among Malaysian women, that between Muslim and non-Muslim women.We are unique in that we actively legally discriminate against women who are arguably the majority in this country, Muslim women. Non-Muslim Malaysian women have benefited from more progressive laws over the years while the opposite has happened for Muslim women.
For instance, since the Law Reform (Marriage and Divorce) Act 1976, polygamy among non-Muslims was banned. Previously men could have as many wives as they wanted under customary laws. Men’s ability to unilaterally pronounce divorce on their wives was abolished and, in its place, divorce happens by mutual consent or upon petition by either spouse in an equal process where the grounds are intolerable adultery, unreasonable behaviour, desertion of not less than two years, and living separately for not less than two years. Compare that to the lot of Muslim women abandoned but not divorced by their husbands.
Boo hoo.
I'm thankfull I'm not muslim. The thought of sharing my husband with other women gives me the dry heaves.
MY husband can't handle more than one woman. Hehehe, he'd go nuts.
I would never want to condemn the child for the sins of her parent, but Marina Mahathir's father is one of the most vile antisemitic bigots in the world today. He was prime minister of Malaysia for more than 20 years and spent a good deal of that time blaming his problems on the Jews. Not zionists, but Jews. As for the status of women, I would really like to hear Marina discuss how much progress women achieved in Malaysia during her father's reign.
This is a test case for introducing Islamic law – for Islamic peoples of Western nations.
When compared to women in Western nations – women in Islamic nations are almost always at a disadvantage.
In this case – with a duel law system within Malaysia – one Islamic and one not – it is clear that the Islamic woman are at a serious disadvantage compared with those Malaysian women who are non-Islamic.
This should be used as an example of why we should never permit Islamic laws to be used in any Western nation. At the moment Islamic women benefit from the rights and freedoms, which Western laws provide - whether they take advantage of these or not. Introducing Islamic law on the other hand would mean that Islamic women would loose these rights and freedoms – within a Western nation.
I don’t see how we can justify that.
"there is an insidious growing form of apartheid among Malaysian women, that between Muslim and non-Muslim women." (from the article)
Something about the tone of this whole article is hitting me wrong. I know I should be feeling sympathy here but I'm not. I see a Muslim woman complaining of being a victim relative to infidel women. Does she have a history of speaking out against all the other injustices perpretrated towards non-Muslims by Muslims (injustices that such non-Muslims have no control over and so they really ARE victims)? Or does she only care about the fact that in this case it is she that is affected? Cause I want to say, "Well it's YOUR darned religion Ma'am!" You're not exactly the victim of someone else's apartheid policies! It's a prison you've made for yourself!
Apostate.
It's dangerous, but you're free.
Find a softer form?... like very thin Sufi-ism?
There are escapes, ladies.
Many are tacitly approved.
And begin to work the mystical back into the all-too-literal.
Or watch the whole thing be swallowed in its love of violence.
Pure yeast is inedible.
In extremism, the purity is suicidal.
You have to leaven it with a lot of bread.
Of Humanity.
You're not exactly the victim of someone else's apartheid policies! It's a prison you've made for yourself!
True. Marina Mahathir correctly highlights the injustices that Muslim women face, but seems wilfully blind to the origin of those injustices, namely Islam.
This comment, from the article, is telling:
This is inaccurate. In Iraq, for example, Muslim women are losing rights - just count the chadors. In any case, if Muslim women are gaining rights, for example from reform of family law in Morocco, this is in spite of Islam, or in opposition to it, rather than because of it.
This muddled thinking is not unique to Marina Mahathir. Shirin Ebadi, Fatima Mernissi and Leila Ahmed share it, as must, inevitably, any "Muslim feminist".
Slavery and Apartheid.
Women are the slaves in the cult of Islam (submission = slavery). One peculiar thing about male supremacy or any form of slavery, is that it enslaves both parties - both are tried in a shameful bond. Breaking the bond frees both parties and not just the enslaved. Muslim men should realise that the emancipation of women, emancipates and frees men as well. This has been the lesson in the West.
Interested: "Marina Mahathir correctly highlights the injustices that Muslim women face, but seems wilfully blind to the origin of those injustices, namely Islam....This muddled thinking is not unique to Marina Mahathir. Shirin Ebadi, Fatima Mernissi and Leila Ahmed share it, as must, inevitably, any "Muslim feminist"."
Here is someone who is not so muddled in his thinking about the source of the problem. Of course, he has a (provisional) fatwa on his head (via LGF):
http://theisoughtproblem.blogspot.com/2006/03/iraqi-kurdistan-call-for-internet.html
"The book concerns how Islam is allegedly used to oppress women. Halabjaye's book is based on an analysis of the Qur'an as well as recognized Sunnah and Hadith. "I wanted to prove how oppressed women are in Islam and that they have no rights," says Halabjaye."
Hmmm. Sounds like a bona fide Muslim feminist. (After all, men can be feminists too..)
Narrowing the lens so that only the "the plight of Muslim women" is in view, and not the main thing -- the attitude of Believers (men and women) toward all Infidels -- is dangerous. Those women who deplore the treatment of Muslim women, but see nothing wrong with the treatment of Infidels, are acting out of self-interest, and not out of alarm at the more general menace of Islam.
Women in Iraq under the regime of Saddam Hussein were able to get higher educations, even go off to the West, to study -- and were permitted to study whatever they want. Two of those women went to England and studied different areas of science.
They are known to most of us as Dr. Germs and Dr. Anthrax. Their freedom from mistreatment by male Muslims for Infidels is slim consolation.
Caroline,
From your link,
"This request for Internet publication is also being made, in part, because the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) has not offered Halabjaye any protection, much less arrested those who have solicited his murder and made threats against his life. "The Kurdish authorities have not provided any protection from threats and fatwas," says Halabjaye, "any moment I am expecting a bullet or a hand grenade to be thrown into where I live." On the contrary, in response to the Halabjaye affair the KRG Minister of Religious Issues, Dr. Mohammad Gaznayi, told protestors that, "we will give those who attack our prophets a sentence so that they can be a lesson for everyone."
Fear not! I'm sure that Karen and Condi have this on their 'for action' list!
No, Apartheid apartheid still exists and exists in Malaysia. Ask a Bhuddist of Chinese descent who lives in that country where there are hundreds of prohibitions and markers of secon class citizenship.
Marina Mahathir's Father is an Islamic extremist, who is as Jew-hating as they get. For Marina to criticize Sharia law, even in such a back-handed fashion, is nothing short of courageous. Under the circumstances, I would say that this criticism, which will no doubt, because of Marina's stature, be widely read in the Muslim world, is nothing short of a miracle.
Those of you who, sniff, and say, "So, what?" should think of the courage it took for the daughter of such a fanatic to make these mild criticisms. Imagine the children of the Ayatollah Khomeini making such a criticism. Imagine the children of Sheik Yassin making such a criticism. Imagine the children of Sheik al-Qaradawi making such a criticism. You can't. Think about it.
Marina is a prolific liberal (by Asian standards) columnist who has often been a thorn in the side for her father. She married a non-Malaysian, divorced him at age 38, and two years later married another foriegner.
Her columns were published in a book "In Liberal Doses" and she was the subject of censure from the Ulema for her defence of swimsuits, non-hijab dress, and (unlike Western feminists) of beauty contests. Her most controversial article was "The Ugly Side of Islam", reprinted in Asiaweek, Nov. 21, 1997. You can read it at:
http://www.pathfinder.com/Asiaweek/97/1121/feat4.html
From Provoslavni's link:
"If anyone thinks that beauty contests tarnish the image of Islam, they should think about the image derived from actions that constantly punish and are unjust."
Unjust to whom? She doesn't say. To Muslim women only or to infidels as well?
"In other parts of the world, people are turning to Islam because of its emphasis on justice and equality for all people, men and women."
Sorry. My sympathy just vanished.
Clearly, Marina belongs within the statistical minority shown here:
http://missmabrouk.blogspot.com/2005/10/egyptian-women-yes-to-beating.html
While it's not surprising that the vast majority of Muslim women give high approval ratings to their co-abusers ... what will always surprise are the few who break from the herd and reject wrongdoing.
Amazing bravery. One can only imagine what a meeting between this woman and Castro's disenchanted daughter might be like ...
PRCS - maybe Christopher Hitchens, who was extremely outspoken about the Salman Rushdie fatwa, can put in a good word for the author to his new best friends.
ENOUGH!!!
ENOUGH OF THIS LIMINAL, AMORPHOUS BULLSHIT!!!
ISLAM HAS GOT TO GO, EN BLOC!!!
-- In vino veritas.
Caroline:
I know what you are thinking. That Marina is just another taqiyya artist. Remember, Caroline, as the Chinese say, the longest journey begins with a single step.
Mentat: "I know what you are thinking. That Marina is just another taqiyya artist."
No Mentat. That thought never occurred to me in her case. Hopelessly self-centered (as so many Muslims are) was more what came to mind.
l heard on Praeger's radio show this week. about this Amer.muslim women doctor debating with this panel of regular muslim. this was aired on aljeerja, and she was really blasted Isalm big time!! l could not believe this was on the aljeerja! even Praeger could not believe this. and nothing was said of this to the mainstream media.. l will look up on his website if l can her name.. wow she sounded so good!
I was reading this article thinking "where is this going'? Answer: nowhere.
She makes valid points with an aura of blame that never actually materialises.
ISLAM is the problem. How can any country operate under two vastly different systems of law? Sooner or later, one system will prevail but she just can't seem to bring herself to the conclusion that it is the Islamic system that has to go in its entirety.
l will look up on his website if l can her name.. wow she sounded so good!
Posted by: Lulu at March 11, 2006 10:17 PM
You must be talking about Dr. Wafa Sultan. She let it rip, didn't she?! I wish she would go on Fox, CNN, CBS, ABC--and say the same things she said on al-jazeera. She didn't back down one inch and her candor was refreshing. That's what the American people need to hear---the truth about Islam from the horse's mouth, instead of hackneyed cliches about Islam being "hijacked" by a "few" extremists.
I heard that she is now getting death threats from none other than those "few extremists." When will the world wake up?
Was Marina the daughter who once went through a divorce, thereby making things uncomfortable for her father?
I agree with the other posters, not just because she says nothing about the plight of Malaysian infidels (chinese and tamils). To describe her as courageous in a similar vein as Wafa Sultan is ridiculous. She is the daughter of the former Prime Minister, and therefore a member of Malaysia's privileged class. Nothing that she does would therefore endanger her. Wafa Sultan has no such clout, and she stands to lose heavily by the path she has taken.
Infidel Pride:
I disagree with you. Muslims have shown time and time again that they will kill ANYONE who causes problems for Islam. I do not think Marina is immune.
Infidel Pride wrote:
"Was Marina the daughter who once went through a divorce, thereby making things uncomfortable for her father?"
Yes. She married a non-Malaysian over her father's objections, divorced him at age 38, and two years later married another foriegner.
Sometimes a politician having a spoiled, rebellious daughters can be a good thing.
Be thankful you do not live in Malaysia!
http://www.mggpillai.com/sections.php3?op=viewarticle&artid=13812
19-01-2006 09:34 am
[CBBS] List of racial discrimination in Malaysia
China Daily BBS
List of Racial Discrimination in Malaysia
List of Racial Discriminations in Malaysia, practiced by Gov’t as well as Gov’t agencies. This list is an open secret. Best verified by Gov’t itself because it got the statistics. This list is not in the order of importance,. that means the first one on the list is not the most important and the last one on the list does not mean least important.
This list is a common knowledge to a lot of Malaysians, especially those Non-Malays (Tamils, Chinese, Ibans, Kadazans, orang asli, Christians, etc) who were being racially discriminated. Figures in this list are estimates only and please take it as a guide only. Gov’t of Malaysia has the most correct figures. Is Gov’t of Malaysia too ashamed to publish their racist acts by publishing racial statistics?
This list cover a period of about 47 years since Independence (1957).
List of racial discriminations (Malaysia):
50 road names (at least) had been change from Chinese names to other names.
10 all public universities Vice chancellors are Malays
99% of 2000 Petronas gasoline stations are owned by Malays
99% of Petronas directors are Malays
2% is what Chinese New Village get compare with 98% of what Malays kampongs (villages) got for rural development budget.
1000 While a Chinese parent with RM1000 salary (monthly) cannot get school-text-book-loan, a Malay parents with RM2000 salary is eligible.
5% of all new intake for gov’t nurses, police, army is Non-Malays.
2.5% is Gov’t budget for Chinese primary schools. Tamil school got only 1%, Malay school got 96.5%
15% Discount for a Malay to buy a house, regardless whether the Malay is rich or poor.
5% The gov’t universities lecturers of Non-Malay origins had been reduced from about 70% in 1965 to only 5% in 2004
2% is the percentage of Non-Malays gov’t servants in Putrajaya (the new gov’t administrative capital).. But Malays make up. 98%
7% is the percentage of Chinese gov’t servants in the whole gov’t (in 2004), drop from 30% in 1960
2% is the present Chinese staff in RMAF (Royal Malaysian Air Force), drop from 40% in 1960
0 of the gov’t TV statio ns (TV1 , TV2, TV3) are directors of Non-Malays origin
2 million Malaysian Chinese had emigrated oversea since 40 years ago.
0.5 million Tamils Malaysians emigrated oversea
3 million Indonesians had migrated into Malaysia and became Malaysian citizens with Bumiputra status.
0 Non-bumi are allowed to get shop lots in the new Muar bus station (Nov 2004)
1 Out of all the 5 major banks, only one bank is multi-racial, The rest are controlled by Malays.
10% place for Non-Bumi students for MARA science schools beginning from year 2003, But, only 7% are filled. Before that it was 100% Malays.
1 Catholic church in Shah Alam took 20 years to apply to be constructed. but told by Malay authority that it must look like a factory and not look like a church. Still not yet approved in 2004.
10 times, at least, Malays (especially UMNO) had threatened to massacre the Chinese Malaysians using May 13 since 1969
50 cases whereby Chinese and Indian Malaysi ans are beaten up in the Khidmat Negara (National Service) program in 2003.
8000 B is the total amount (RM 8000 Billion Rnggit) the Gov’t channeled to Malays pockets through ASN, ASB, Tabung Haji, privatisation of Gov’t agencies, MARA, etc through NEP over 34 years period.
25% is Chinese population in 2004, drop from 45% in 1957
20 reported cases whereby Malay ambulance attendance treated Chinese patients inhumanely and Malay Gov’t hospital staffs purposely delay attending to Chinese patients in 2003. Unreported cases may be 200.
600,000 are the Tamil and Chinese Malaysians with red IC and was rejected repeatedly when applying for citizenship for 40 years. Perhaps 60 % of them had already passed away due to old age. This shows racism of how easily Indonesians got their citizenship compare with the Chinese and Indians.
95% of Gov’t contracts are given to Malays.
3 only 3 out of 12 Human Rights item s are ratified by Malaysia Gov’t since 1960
0 Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (UN Human Rights) is not ratified by Malaysia Gov’t. since 1960s
5% Only 5% is given to Non-Malays for Gov’t scholarships over 40 years.
0 Chinese or Tamils were sent to Japan & Korea under “Look East Policy”.
100% All business licensees are controlled by Malay gov’t e.g. Taxi permits, AP permit etc.
2 Chinese taxi drivers were barred from driving in JB Larkin bus station. There are about 30 taxi drivers and 3 are Chinese in Oct 2004. Spoiling taxi club properties was the reason given.
80% of the Chinese rice millers in Kedah had to be sold to Malay controlled Bernas in 1980s. Otherwise, life is make difficult for Chinese rice millers.
10 At least 10 Chinese owned bus companies (throughout Malaysia, throughout 40 years) had to be sold to MARA or other Malay transport companies due to rejection by Malay authority to Chinese application for bus routes and rejection for their application for new buses.
1 Dewan Gan Boon Leong (in Malacca) was altered to other name (e.g. Dewan Serbaguna or sort ) when it was being officially used for a few days. Gov’t try to shun Chinese names. This racism happened in around year 2000 or sort.
100% All contractors working under Petronas projects must be Bumiputra status.
3% of Petronas employees are Chinese.
30 gov’t produced TV dramas and film always showed that the bad guys had Chinese; face and the good guys had Malay face. You can check it out since 1970s. Recent years, this tendency become less.
100 big companies set up, managed and owned by Chinese Malaysians were taken over / bought over by gov’t / Malays and later managed by Malays since 1970s e.g. UMBC, MISC, UTC, etc
100 constituencies (states and parliaments) had been racistly re-delineated so that Chinese voters were diluted so that Chinese candidates particularly DAP candidates lost in election since 1970s.
20 constituencies won by DAP would not get funds from gov’t to develop. Or, these Chinese majority constituencies would be the last to be developed.
0 temples / churches were built for each Taman (housing estates). But, every Taman got at least one mosque / surau built.
3000 mosques / surau were built in all Taman throughout Malaysia since 1970. No temples, no churches are required to be built in Taman.
2637 Malay primary schools built since 1968 – 2000
48 Chinese primary schools closed. down since 1968 – 2000
144 Tamil primary schools closed down since 1968 – 2000
128 STPM Chinese top students could not get into the course that they aspired i.e. Medicine (in 2004)
1 publishing of Bible in Iban language banned (in 2002?)
20 cases every year whereby Chinese drivers who accidentally knocked down Malays were seriously assaulted or killed by Malays.
50 cases each year whereby Chinese, especially Chinese youths being beaten up by Malay youths in public places. We may check at police reports provided the police took the report, otherwise, there will be no record.
7% is the present (2004) Malaysian Indians population, a drop from 12% in 1957
0 percent of Non-Malays staffs is legally required in Malay companies. But there must be 30 % Malays staffs in Chinese companies.
12% is what ASN / ASB got per annum while banks’ fixed deposit is only about 3.5% per annum.
There are hundreds more racial discrimin ations in Malaysia to add to this list of “colossal” racism. It is hoped that the victims of racism will write in to expose racism. Malaysian Government should publish statistics showing how much Malays had benefited from the “special rights” of Malays and at the same time tell the statistics of how much other minority races are being discriminated. Hence, the responsibility lies in the Malaysian gov’t itself to publish unadulterated statistics of racial discrimination. If the Malaysia gov’t hide the statistics above, then there must be some evil doings, immoral doings, sinful doings and shameful doings, like the Nazi, going on onto the Non-Malays of Malaysia.
Civilized nation, unlike evil Nazi, must publish statistics to show its treatment on its minority races, This is what Malaysia must publish...We are asking for the publication of the statistics showing how “implementation of special rights of Malays” had inflicted colossal racial discri mination onto Non-Malays.
Ends
Other interesting topics on Apartheid in Malaysia:
http://www.mggpillai.com/article.php3?sid=1360
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/28053
Muslims are "Princes of the Soil" Policy :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_New_Economic_Policy
Latest US State Dept Report on Human Rights in Malaysia:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61615.htm
Check out the praises Marina Mahathir had for former President Khatami of Iran:
http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?file=/columnists/2006/2/22/musings/13450558&sec=Musings
Columnists > Musings
Wednesday February 22, 2006
Khatami speaks
By MARINA MAHATHIR
In the 1970s when Ayatollah Khomeini came into power in Iran, the world was presented with a vision of Islam that was dour and uncompromising. The Ayatollah never smiled, at least not in the media, his dull robes gave the impression that Islam disapproved of colour.
Iranian women suddenly covered themselves in black from head to foot, and thereon the image of the Muslim woman became embedded in the global imagination as inseparable from that of the Iranian woman. Not only that, it also became embedded in the minds of certain Muslims that that is what a Muslim woman should look like. As a result, Muslim women who don’t dress like that have had to suffer stereotyping ever since from both non-Muslims and Muslims.
The other stereotyping that has occurred is that Iranian mullahs are uniformly dour, dull, strict and dislike women. So it was an interesting revelation the other day when former President Khatami of Iran, in KL for a conference, asked to meet NGOs working on women and Islam issues. About 10 of us gathered to see him for the one-hour meeting. He asked us to introduce our work, and ourselves, and then he spoke and answered questions.
The first impression of Khatami is that he is not dour. A man with kind eyes, he displayed a warmth and sense of humour that one doesn’t expect from religious men. That he wanted to know what was going with Muslim women in Malaysia was already a surprise. But certainly we welcomed the opportunity to inform him and seek his opinion.
Khatami was indeed a surprise in several ways. For one, his view on Islam is more progressive than one would expect. He thinks that for Islamic societies to progress, we must have education and science and technology. But for this to happen, we must have democracy. And to have democracy, we must have freedom of thought and women’s rights.
“There are some traditionalist views which are not related to Islam which have taken on incorrect Islamic views...the best way to counter these views is to encourage women’s presence in society,” he said.
He stressed that countries must have democratic forms of government. Otherwise no wealth or science and technology is achieved or will not last long. “The most important need for Islamic countries is to achieve democratic governments and then acquire science and technology,” he argued.
However, there are particular difficulties in Islamic countries. Firstly, there exist traditional views and thoughts which have taken on an “Islamic” exterior and that includes “discrimination, depriving women of rights and regarding men as superior.”
This has resulted in two injustices, “the injustice to women and other weaker classes, and the injustice to Islam itself by saying that the first injustice is Islamic.” (Could we have been forgiven for wishing at that moment that various politicians and religious officials had been there to hear this?)
Khatami said that our most important duty is to solve the paradox of promoting women’s growth while keeping families strong. But we must provide the grounds for the education and “intellectual effort” of women “so that they can defend their own rights.” And he is putting his money where his mouth is by establishing the Centre for Civilisational Dialogue in Geneva that has three women trustees, “because it is not possible to have dialogue without women.”
Not only were his views on women progressive, even his views of religion in society were quite surprising. He believes that religion should not be based on static principles because “with time and changing questions and equations, these principles will lose effectiveness. Therefore we must change the principles.... If we insist on these principles, then Islam will fail.”
Now how radical is that? Not that he was saying that religion had no place, but that it “is not important for religion to intervene in the social life of people.” What was more important was how religion could be read in a way that it offers new thoughts in approaching current problems. If not, “this will lead to the destruction of society. If things are imposed in the name of religion, then this will cause people to dislike religion.”
For people to like religion, even for religion’s own survival, Khatami thought that we must have freedom of thought. We must have the ability to think for ourselves. “Where religion and freedom of thought have confronted each other, both have suffered. But if we read religion as conforming to (the idea of) freedom of thought, then freedom will ensure that religion will not become regressive. If we have an interpretation of religion in favour of freedom, then we will be able to achieve much. Otherwise religion will be wiped out of social life.” Hear that, those who like to ban books?
Khatami came into power in Iran because of his progressive views. Unfortunately he was not able to deliver on them, not least because the traditional forces against him were still very strong. Which is the tragedy of the Islamic world really, that even in a supposedly modern country like ours, the backward have the upper hand.
The status of women and therefore of men also, in the islamic world is regressing, due to the edicts issued by the various imams and mullahs, which are issued for self-serving/power reasons.
This attitude is carried into the Western world and these creatures are using the same mechanisms here to cause subjugation of people in the West,with the aid of the apologists in the government and media.
Support Wafa Sultan, Ali Sina, Irshad Manji+ Robert Spencer,Hugh Fitzgerald, Andrew Bostom etc
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Beyond the racist discrimination, religious bigotry, terrorist agression against Thailand, and neo-colonial occupation of Sarawak and Sabah, the Malay state even tried to tell indigenous Christians by what name they can call God.
In 2003, the Malaysian government banned the Iban language version of the Bible (the Bup Kudus) because the Iban word for God is "Allah Tala" and this offended Muslims who tried to claim exclusive rights to the name of Allah (tell that to Arabic speaking Christians and Jews who used Allah as the term for God hundreds of years before Muhammed was even born). The ban made printing, importing, production, reproduction, sale, circulation, distribution and possession of the Bup Kudus illegal. Offenders found guilty of violating the ban were subject to jail terms and/or fines.
The ban on the Iban Bible was finally lifted by the Acting Prime Minister (also Home Minister) when representatives of the Christian Fellowship Malaysia, Council of Churches Malaysia, Roman Catholic Council, National Evangelistic Church Fellowship (and) the leaders of Association of Churches in Sarawak (Iban leaders) publicized this ourage and caused an international outcry.