A superb set of questions from Investors Business Daily (thanks to Michelle Malkin). Ibrahim Hooper, I await your answers. (Note: to find all these references, check several verses around the specified verse number. English Qur'ans differ in their numbering of verses.)
Generally speaking, those questions focus on whether the Quran does indeed promote violence against non-Muslims, and how many of the terrorists' ideas — about the violent jihad, the self-immolation, the kidnappings, even the beheadings — come right out of the text? But even more specifically:Is Islam the only religion with a doctrine, theology and legal system that mandates warfare against unbelievers?
Is it true that 26 chapters of the Quran deal with jihad, a fight able-bodied believers are obligated to join (Surah 2:216), and that the text orders Muslims to "instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever" and to "smite above their necks" (8:12)?
Is the "test" of loyalty to Allah not good acts or faith in general, but martyrdom that results from fighting unbelievers (47:4) — the only assurance of salvation in Islam (4:74; 9:111)?
Are the sins of any Muslim who becomes a martyr forgiven by the very act of being slain while slaying the unbelievers (4:96)?
And is it really true that martyrs are rewarded with virgins, among other carnal delights, in Paradise (38:51, 55:56; 55:76; 56:22)?
Are those unable to do jihad — such as women or the elderly — required to give "asylum and aid" to those who do fight unbelievers in the cause of Allah (8:74)?
Does Islam advocate expansion by force? And is the final command of jihad, as revealed to Muhammad in the Quran, to conquer the world in the name of Islam (9:29)?
Is Islam the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (48:29)? Does the Quran instead teach violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians (5:50)?
There are other questions, but these should do for a start. If the answers are "yes," then at least Americans will know there's no such thing as moderate Islam, even as they trust that there are moderate Muslims who do not act out on its violent commands.
A Resounding 'NO!'
"Is Islam the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (48:29)? Does the Quran instead teach violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians"
When converting the uninformed, this information usually does the trick (at least that’s my experience). This really surprises those who think "all religions are about the same"
Holy cow! Good for Investor's Daily! This seems like a breakthrough. I've noticed they've been good on the issue of Islam before, but this is in a new category.
Fantastic.
I won't hold my breath.
This really is a surprising article. Perhaps we aren't as far away from a Cultural Revelation as I had feared. Time will tell.
There indeed have been women jihadis, but one must wonder why the elderly haven't been as involved in the jihadi movement. It can't be because they're incapacitated....surely a bombvest can be worn by even a doddering, bus-riding senior citizen. Few would hardly suspect "little old ladies and men" to be suicide bombers, which makes them even more enticing a volunteer. Further, since Muslim senior citizens have lived longer to see and experience more "oppression" than their younger counterparts, one would presume their anger, conviction, and rage would be even more intense, their reasons for blowing themselves up even more justifiable in their minds. Not only that, having lived full lives and coming to the end of their days, it would seem so obvious and easy for the elderly to give as their last gift to the resistance their deaths as a glorious, blazing martyr instead of wasting away on an obscure deathbed. So, why has it only been primarily young men involved in jihadi activities?
Maybe it's not just the religion....it's gotta be the hormones, too.
This IS huge.
I suspect, without trying to offend or exclude anyone to whom this does not suitably apply, that a large percentage of "Investors Business Daily" reader tend to be fairly conservative and supporters of the current administration. Therefore, I wonder how many of them have been blindly accepting as truth Bush and Condi's "Islam is a religion of peace" mantra. If the article does nothing more than make them wonder about the validity of the argument, it's certainly a step in the right direction.
Knowledge + Education = Power.
When you point out these things to a muslim, you are often confronted with the question: "Ah ha, but do you speak Arabic? Do you read Arabic?"
And, of course, I don't.
This question is almost always a stopper. How can you argue a point if they deny the accuracy of the text, and the quotation? Naturally, it doesn't take a genius to know that this technique is itself a deception, an indirect lie, but it is effective with bystanders and muslim sympathizers.
The antithesis, which is simple but probably not easy, is to point out that the English version is the one purchased in the mosque bookstore, maybe in the very same mosque that the speaker attends, and that not even all muslims speak Arabic, so this version must be acceptable.
The main trouble with this antithesis (since honesty is burdensome) is that you actually have to spend money at the mosque. No telling what that money is ultimately supporting.
Texan...I'm thinking it will finance Achmed's bombvest for starters or another SUV rental for those crowded college lunchtimes.
Yada, maybe the old people just have more sense.
I have this picture in my mind of an elderly muslim creeping hunchbacked to the bus strapped with a bomb, and thinking of his 72 virgins.
"The main trouble with this antithesis (since honesty is burdensome) is that you actually have to spend money at the mosque. No telling what that money is ultimately supporting."
Surely it's not as much as what you sent to Sheik Abdulbinullah al-Sultan the last time you filled up at the gas station? We're sending billions of dollars to quench our thirst for oil. What's a lousy $5 for an anointed Qur'an to fight the jihad we're busy funding..
Freewoman,
Wish they'd pass some of their sense to their young'uns.
Unless they believe as their young'uns do.
Like I said, hormones.
Texan:
You're quite right in pointing out the frequent response to criticism of the Qur'an: "Ah ha, but do you speak Arabic? Do you read Arabic?"
Most Westerners of course do not speak Arabic. However, most Westerners speak neither Hebrew, Latin nor classical Greek, yet the Bible manages to get its message through, by reports of individuals who do speak those languages. Likewise, few people anywhere speak classical Sanskrit and yet the Bhagavad Gita has been translated. Commentaries on these and other books of philosophical substance are available.
So what's stopping Moslems from at least getting the basic message out and clarified, once and for all?
Maybe when one has a forked tongue, every word has a double meaning.
My response: "No, I don't, so would you kindly translate for me what it's really saying so I don't misunderstand it?"
Which promptly shoves the tongue-tied, Arabic-only Muslim between rock-and-hard-place, since by translating, they become the very thing they've discredited, i.e. translations of the Koran.
And Muslims wonder why their religion is so "misunderstood".
The editors at IBD now realize that Islam is not just another religion but an all encompassing ideology that regulates politics, religion and economics of society. IBD thus acknowledges the anti-capitalism inherent in Islam.
"The main trouble with this antithesis (since honesty is burdensome) is that you actually have to spend money at the mosque."
-texan at March 28, 2006 05:12 PM
The Saudi embassy in Washington D.C. will send you an English translation for free. Is a mohammedan going to try to argue that the translation handed out by the S.A. government is inaccurate? Probably.
http://iad.org
Ah ha, but do you speak Arabic? Do you read Arabic?"
My response: "No, I don't, so would you kindly translate for me what it's really saying so I don't misunderstand it?"
Which promptly shoves the tongue-tied, Arabic-only Muslim between rock-and-hard-place, since by translating, they become the very thing they've discredited, i.e. translations of the Koran.
And Muslims wonder why their religion is so "misunderstood".
Posted by: yadayada
I have had that questioned asked of me and I answer back in Arabic that I don't read it well but better than most muslims. Most can't read it or they speak a variant. I know you realize most muslems are not arabs and they don't speak or read arabic, to me that destroys their argument. The arabs themselves have problems due to the variants but most texts are written in modern standard which makes things easier. The question is more of a distraction, they could always claim they mean archaic arabic which they couldn’t read anyway.
I speak gutter arabic but can normally follow the texts, at least enough to get the gist of it. I am way out of practice. As for what I did in the military, it wasn't exciting.
I don't think it matters what language the Koran and other muslim writings are printed in, because I do not believe that words really, objectively mean anything to them. Words are tools and weapons, twisted and turned to be used to further their evil cause. Those who support and justify islam here engage in "jihad" by the use of words and language, the same as any suicide-bomber.
-patriot2
See my last posting above. You can also download a searchable English version at http://www.islamasoft.co.uk/.
"...and thinking of his 72 virgins."
Freewoman,
Eeeyu! Yukky!
I don't want to think about him thinking about them......!!!!
I have to comment on what Yohannbiimu said. One thing that has struck me, since I've been reading about Islam, is the use of words. Muslims simply don't use words the same way the rest of us do. Words like "oppression", "occupation", "struggle", and even war and fighting, seem to have such a different meaning when viewed through Islam's prism. I've read that oppression is "the enemy fighting against you", meaning Muslims, and can be nothing more than the "media writing against you". A column in a newpaper or magazine is oppression to these people.
Words don't mean the same thing to Muslims as they do to the rest of us.
These are great questions. Even here, look at the discussion they promote.
Are you doing what you can to get these questions out to the world?
I was once asked if I could read Arabic. I lied and said that I could. I was pretty sure he didnt have anything for me to read. (fortunately, I was right)
The guy said something in Arabic, I said that I didn't SPEAK Arabic, I could just read it.
I am sure he wasn't convinced, but it did end the conversation, so mission accomplished,
Spot on and many thanks to " Investors Business Daily " for coming out with the truth!
"Maybe it's not just the religion....it's gotta be the hormones, too."
Absolutely. I really believe that sexual frustration and lack of healthy gender relationships is driving much of the violence and aggression.
"Ah ha, but do you speak Arabic? Do you read Arabic?"
It's useful to simply quote imams and other prominent muslims who give their violent messages in English or other western languages, themselves quoting koran or hadiths.
Words are tools and weapons, twisted and turned to be used to further their evil cause. Those who support and justify islam here engage in "jihad" by the use of words and language, the same as any suicide-bomber.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 28, 2006 06:24 PM
yohannbiimu,
You have nailed it well. To believe a muslim is to fall in Islamic deception. How many times I hear an American woman marrying a 'good' Muslim man only to find their and their children's lives in danger soon after, thanks to the 'good' Muslim man and 'Religion of Peace'. Then, I tell my self... stupid American woman, only to read about another American woman marrying a 'good'Muslim man... you get the point.
This has a simple solution, first they kill, convert or enslave the world. Once the entire planet follows the religion of peace, all 72 sects fight each other for dominance. When 71 of the sects is converted, killed or enslaved, the imams will fight to control the last sect, then we will have peace? Come to think of it peace is overrated, lets rock.
Jaynie59 wrote:
"Words like "oppression", "occupation", "struggle", and even war and fighting, seem to have such a different meaning when viewed through Islam's prism."
I see it all the time on this message board. Just today I was "corrected" by a islam-enthusiest who told me that islam does not teach to kill Jews, but rather it says to "protect yourself from them, killing them if necessary."
To "protect yourself," and "if necessary" can be interpreted in countless ways, as far as these folks are concerned. Protecting yourself could mean that a Jew lives somewhere in your city, he has not "submitted" to islam, and you believe that is an offense to allah. "If necessary" could mean that you have threatened to kill him if he doesn't move away from your city, and he has not heeded the threat.
To sensible, clear-thinking people, words mean what you say, and you say what you mean. The words we use may sometimes be misunderstood, but usually it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is being said, provided that one has a decent reading comprehension.
The way muslims use language, I'm not certain that THEY have a clear idea of what they are talking about. They try to deceive so much, they fall into their own deception.
"They try to deceive so much, they fall into their own deception."
Perhaps that doesn't make as much sense as to say that they deceive so much, I am not sure if they know when they are telling the "truth" about something or not.
It's bizarre. It really is. Words just don't mean the same thing. What's really appalling is that most people don't know what Islam is. It's most vocal defenders are defending something they know nothing about.
Umm..
I speak Arabic so...
I guess if anyone needs an honest opinion of a translation, feel free to email me at:
happykafir@yahoo.com
I will be glad to help you out. That includes believers and non-believers.
CAIR people, I know you read this so feel free to email me as well, especially you Ibrahim Hooper. I understand you need much help.
Regards,
Investors Business Daily is doing Americans an invaluable service and may even be saving lives in the process. My greatest thanks to them.
I suspect that we could take this a step farther and frame any question towards Islam's ideology with relation to other religions by noting first off that Islam clearly legalizes, institutionalizes, and even glorifies what in the western democracies is legally termed FIRST DEGREE MURDER." How many westerners have even heard of such a mentality? (Maybe in the Babylonian,Mayan, Aztec or Inca civilizations--but that's about it. Or possibly 2000-plus years ago in at the Roman Colosseum or something. But in the 21 century????).
Islamic ideology goes so far as to promise rewards for Muslims willing to massacre non-Muslims. "Paradise is under the shade of the swords" trumpets Islam's supposedly 'Glorious' Kuran. Which thereby explains why Islam has managed to massacre more innocent human beings than any other human-organized force in history (that we can verify).
No other religious belief system in existence today institutionalizes murder of innocent human beings as part of its charter ideology. Even Communism stops short of this at taking over the world by force.
As for those scads of "politically correct" moonbeam lefties claiming Christianity does indeed do this and always has, I tell them to read the 10 Commandments issued to Moses on Mt. Sinai by Yahweh who outlaws first-degree murder in these and has enshrined this--and all the other commandments--in stone tablets that are believed to exist to this day (supposedly held by the Ethiopian governmment, something I doubt has been 100% confirmed...but (almost) anything is possible).
One of the western democracies' strongest defenses against Islam is their laws against first degree murder. By using these laws to expose Islam's cold-blooded savagery (Muslims will always be looking for ways to get around these laws, but these laws are essentially non-negotiable)and thus outlaw Islam on legitimate legal grounds and we will be in a far stronger position to combat this deadly enemy.
I like the idea of the alternative translation where muslim martyres actually get white raisins not virgins.........can you imagine their faces when they get to 'paradise'LOL