"Hello, Hamid? Condi...Fine, thanks, and you?...A double eagle on a par-5 hole! Wow, that's terrific...Yes...Look, Hamid, about this Abdul Rahman character, you guys are making it harder for me to keep on saying how peaceful and tolerant Islam is. Can you cut me some slack here, please?...
"Oh, no, I'm certainly not saying you should stop the trial...Release him? Oh, no, I'm not saying that...You guys are a sovereign government...A sovereign country...But...you're really making us come out of this war on terror thing with egg on our face, Hamid...After all, we fought for freedom, right? And that includes freedom of religion and freedom of conscience, right? I mean, Hamid, doesn't your own Constitution say -- What's that? 'Followers of other religions are free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law'? And what are those limits, Hamid? 'In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.'...I see...I see...And Islam actually forbids conversion to another religion?...Wow, Hamid, I had no idea....
"But Hamid, can't you release him just as a favor to us?...What's that? People actually believe in laws like this? You'll have open revolt?...Well, yes, we did sign off on your Constitution, it's true. But we didn't realize that anybody actually took seriously -- well, of course Hamid. I see the tough position you're in...No, I don't think you should be made out to be an American stooge...No, of course we don't want to see your government fall...All right, Hamid...Calm down...It's all right...We won't cut off any aid...No, not even if Abdul Rahman is executed...Of course we know we've come this far with you, we can't abandon you now...Yes, certainly, Hamid...We'll go to Bullfeather's next time you're in Washington...All right, Hamid...You have a lovely evening too...Thank you...Good night."
From FoxNews, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
WASHINGTON — Concerned about the fate of a Christian convert in Afghanistan on trial for his life, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case."This is a very deeply concerning development in Afghanistan and we have raised it at the highest levels,” Rice said during a press conference with the Greek minister of foreign affairs. “We look forward, hopefully, to a resolution to this in the very near future."...
“We have raised it in the strongest possible terms to make clear that it is our great hope and desire that Afghanistan will reaffirm what is already in its constitution, that the universal declaration on human rights will be respected, and that this will be resolved in a way that is consistent with those principles," Rice said.
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack reported that Rice underlined to Karzai the "fact that the United States stands forthrightly for principles of freedom of worship, freedom of expression, and that these are bedrock principles of democracy around the world, these are principles that are enshrined in the Afghan constitution and they're principles that are enshrined in the U.N. Universal Declaration on Human Rights.
"We're looking for a favorable resolution at the earliest possible time," McCormack added.
On Wednesday, President Bush said he was troubled by the possible decapitation of Rahman.
"I'm troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account. That's not the universal application of the values that I talked about. I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship," Bush said.
At the White House on Thursday, spokesman Scott McClellan said he was aware of Rice's call, but had not gotten a readout yet of the content. He said the administration will continue to stay in close contact with the Afghan government "and work with them to make sure that people's religious freedoms are protected."
In deference to the country's sovereignty, Rice evidently did not demand specifically that the trial be halted and the defendant released.
"This is clearly an Afghan decision to take. They are a sovereign government. It's a sovereign country. But as I pointed out, we believe that it is important that as the issue is resolved, that those fundamental principles of freedom of religion, freedom of expression are affirmed in the resolution of this case," McCormack said....
In Afghanistan, Supreme Court judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada told Reuters that "Afghanistan is an Islamic country and its judiciary will act independently and neutrally. ... No other policy will be accepted apart from Islamic orders and what our constitution says."
Yes, we will release him to his fellow Muslim neighbors who will see him safely to his grave.
Stop all aid now, withdraw all allied forces now, and bring brave Abdul Rahman out, we need people like him.
With sincere apologies for being slightly off topic, I have to know if you guys are aware of this
"WASHINGTON - A leading Israeli software company abandoned its plans Thursday to buy a smaller U.S. rival in a $225 million deal because of national security objections by the Bush administration. "
Full story available at Yahoo front page.
I mean, Dubai, before grass roots resistance, got a free pass on ports, is looking right now at a takeover of a Brit company that manufactures military equipment in the US -- but Israel isn't allowed to buy a computer company?
Something has gone very, very wrong.
Hamid and his people will hold the President hostage by demanding that a cash payment of hard-earned U.S. taxpayer dollars be deposited into a secret Swiss bank account, and the Sharia crisis will be "ended" by letting the apostate live, and maybe even migrate to America and live on the dole there.
The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is willing, however, to cut Geoge a deal by taking a paltry $50 million to show their appreciation for the State Dept.'s bold stance to reduce or eliminate American free speech rights when it comes to things Islam and Moslem. "Allahu, Yale & Harvard infidel dude, we cut a very very special deal for you (wink wink)."
What did Fitzsimmons say. Oleaginous?
Poor Mr. Rahman. Like millions of Americans, he probably thought the world had changed after 9-11. Maybe he accepted the President's word for this. Being Afghani, it is possible that he wanted to return home to help usher in the new world order inherent in Mr. Bush's bold pronouncements. Little did he know that the new world order would be that of George H. W. Bush; which is to say, the status quo ante 9-11.
l think some of you guys are a little too hard on Condi and the State Department.. you see they have been fed all this crap from CHAIR, and now they are just begining to find out the real truth about Islam the culture of death! yes.. it is getting to the media, and people like like this appologist for chair,,Hopper.. what ever.. will find it more difficult to explain what really his religion of peace and sharia really mean.. ps l am just jokking about being too hard..we need to press on the real truth behind islam!
I use to believe so much in the mission in Afganistan but i now have no belief,the soldiers lives we are risking and the money we are wasting,for what i bunch of savages who want everyone to respect them but how can they expect this of people when they are prepared to kill someone who has found what they believe is something better,Islam is just and cult and nothing more.
With the way muslims conducted themselves with the cartoon riots and now this they are being exposed as not a religion of peace but simply a facist intolerant movement that oneday we are going to have to face up to in our own countries.
On an unrelated subject but still with the status of Islam and its apologists.
Just read and watched the News regarding the release by UK/US troops of the 3 Peace Activists in Iraq and my thoughts are as follows.
1) I see the brave 'Mujahideen Warriors' all ran away when they heard that REAL Soldiers were on their way. No women,kids and old men there to kill.
2) Why didnt the 'Peace Activists' refuse to be rescued by the 'filthy Coalition INVADERS' that they were in Iraq to protest about after all they were in the hands of the 'Peace Loving ,Tolerant Muslims' they support what possibly could be the problem?
l think some of you guys are a little too hard on Condi and the State Department.. you see they have been fed all this crap from CHAIR, and now they are just begining to find out the real truth about Islam the culture of death!
Is it too much to ask that these clowns crack a book? You don't have a degree from a prestige factory like Stanford or Duke or Georgetown to understand plain statements calling for your subjugation or doom, especially when that RoP message is repeated ad nauseum by God and the Holy Prophet. Duh.
By my count it only takes a few days to read the Koran and any one version of the Hadiths, such a Bukhari, my personal fave.
MO MOHAMMEDS MO ANGER MO NON-EQUAL PROTECTION MO MOHAMMEDS MO
When the hippies took over the universities, everybody patted themselves on the back about how cool that was. The self-congratulatory morons will be the death of us all.
When you think of Catholics, you think of guilt. When you think of Jews, you think of noble tribalism and intellectual fervor. When you think of Protestants, you think of kind-hearted socialism. When you think of Buddhists, you think of solitude and peace among the multitudes. When you think of Hindus, you think of infinitely complex traditions of hope and joy.
When you think of Moslems, you think of down-and-dirty fraud of both the intellectual and moral types. I won't even mention the parts about the worship of rape and murder and kiddie sex and theft and terror and kidnapping and all that factual stuff that can be looked up and verified in a matter of minutes. But that just wouldn't be be possible, now would it?
realist that is right on the money,here they are against the coalition and those very soldiers saved there sorry arses.
Robert's imagined conversation between Condoleeza Rice and Hamid Karzai puts one in mind of a certain famous movie conversation (see "Dr. Strangelove" -- right now, if you have the time). I have changed or omitted some words, and added words of my own, but much of the original remains, and its spirit is intact.
Condoleeza Rice On the Phone With Hamid Karzai:
"Hello?... Ah... I can't hear too well. Do you suppose you could turn the music down just a little?... Oh-ho, that's much better... yeah... huh... yes... Fine, I can hear you now, Hamid... Clear and plain and coming through fine... I'm coming through fine, too, eh?... Good, then... well, then, as you say, we're both coming through fine... Good... Well, it's good that you're fine and... and I'm fine... I agree with you, it's great to be fine... a-ha-ha-ha-ha... Now then, Hamid, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with that Sharia of yours... The Sharia, Hamid...... The Islamic Sharia... Well now, what happened is... ah... well, you know, our people, Hamid, they're just a little funny on the subject...just a little funny in the head, and they don't always understand...just a little funny in the head... you know... just a little... funny. And, ah... they've gone and done a silly thing... Well, I'll tell you what they've done, Hamid. They've been protesting, Hamid....No, we have to let them, we don't have a choice....That's right, Hamid. No, really, they do have that right....Well, Hamid, I'm afraid they want us to stop supporting your government....Yes, Hamid, your government. They don't like your....No, Hamid, I don't think it is fair. I know you're trying....You don't like them, either, Hamid? I understand. I completely understand....Well, it's like this, Hamid. Some of them think that if that convert is killed...they don't see why our government should keep supporting your government. Ah...yes, I know it's none of their business. Yes...but they think it is, Hamid.... They think that everyone should have the freedom to....Well, let me finish, Hamid... Let me finish, Hamid... Well listen, how do you think I feel about it?... Can you imagine how I feel about it, Hamid?... Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello?... Of course I like to speak to you!... Of course I like to say hello!... Not now, but anytime, Hamid. I'm just calling up to tell you something terrible is happening... It's a friendly call. Of course it's a friendly call... Listen, if it wasn't friendly... you probably wouldn't have even got it... They will not be able to turn our policy around for at least another few months, Hamid... I am... I am positive, Hamid... Listen, I've been all over this with your ambassador. It is not a trick... Well, I'll tell you. We'd like to give your judges a chance to declare the man insane...Yes! That's right, Hamid. So you won't have to kill him. Is that all right, Hamid? Would that be....You don't have to get mad, Hamid. I am not insulting Islam, Hamid... No, not at all. I mean i-i-i-if we're unable to stop his execution, Hamid, then... I'd say that, ah... well, ah... we're just gonna have to stop helping you, Hamid....I know you need them, Hamid. But they're our boys...and our planes, and our equipment. And our money.... C'mon Hamid, be reasonable. No, Hamid, we don't owe it to you... No, Hamid, it is not something we have to give you, or else...Stop talking like that, Hamid. That's not nice....Of course we won't leave till you tell us we can go. No, not in Iraq either. Promise....Okay, can you calm down? Did you calm down? ....Yes, I know it's a religion of peace, Hamid....Yes, and tolerance. Peace and tolerance, Hamid...Both together, yes, Hamid....No, I won't forget that for a minute, Hamid. I promise. Not for one minute.... Okay, are you calm, now? Hamid, can you please calm down? ....All right, we'll listen now. Who should we call?... Who should we call, Hamid? The sheiks at Al-Azhar? Al-Qaradawi...? Someone in Saudi Arabia? Hamid, are you Sunni or Shi'a?... Why do I ask? Well, Hamid, I think it matters, doesn't it? Not sure, but I think you guys have some differences, isn't that right, Hamid?...You tell me, Hamid. You tell me what I should think you think...whatever you say goes...No, Hamid, I am not making fun of you. Believe me, Hamid....Hamid, listen, in these things you're the boss, okay? ...Oh, yes I should have known. Right, our ambassador in Iraq, he's one of you, isn't he? And he's a Sunni... Right, Hamid. I just forgot. Sorry. I should have known....No, Hamid, I'm not being sarcastic....No, Hamid....Hamid, does that mean you are all Sunnis over there, or are you like in Iraq? Any Shi'as over there? Could that judge be a Shi'a judge? ....No, I'm sorry, Hamid. I didn't mean any disrespect. Just trying to figure it all out.....Yes Hamid, it is complicated for us here.... Why does it matter? Well, you tell me, Hamid. Does it matter? Should it matter, Hamid? Should I think it should matter? I mean, do you get executed if you are a former Sunni or just if you are a former Shi'a?...What's that, Hamid? Oh, it doesn't matter? Not the least little bit? Not even the teeniest little bit? Same punishment? Gosh, Hamid, you guys really take it seriously, don't you?... No, Hamid, I didn't mean that. No, Hamid, I didn't mean to insult you. It's fine...Yes, Hamid. Yes, I apologize. I sincerely apologize. I won't say that again....No, Hamid, I'll never do it again...How sincerely, Hamid? Very sincerely, that's how sincerely...Is that alright?... No, the President won't either. No, I can guarantee it, Hamid. I promise, Hamid... Yes, Hamid, I'll have him call you and tell you him...Of course not...Yes, I know how you feel... No one in the American government will ever ever make fun....uh, you, sorry, you faded away there... So what's the best person to call about this, Hamid? Oh, you'll call them first, will you?... Uh-huh... Listen, do you happen to have the phone number on you, Hamid?... Whe-ah, what? I see, just ask for Cairo information... Ah-ah-eh-uhm-hm... I'm sorry, too, Hamid... I'm very sorry... All right, you're sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as you are, Hamid! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am, because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're both sorry, all right?... All right."
Make your own "Free Rahman" T-Shirt today.
At least Premier Kissoff was in control of his country.
Over 400 billion dollars wasted and over 2,300 American soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
What have we gained??
Hopefully a civil war in Iraq that will spread across Islam.
Sadam in prison.
A convert to Christ to be executed in Afghanistan.
Pull out and use the bombers and keep it up until Islam totally surrenders but Bush is to much of a one world government person to do that.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
So revealing to read how the New York Times covers the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/24/international/asia/24convert.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
One would think from the Times that this case is only reprehensible to the "Christian right." No sense that this might be reprehensible to the public at large, Christian and non-Christian alike.
It's sad, really, because this could be the perfect opportunity for the Democrats to craft a strong anti-Jihad, anti-literal-Islam platform, where the NY Times should typically only be too happy to help.
The authors confirm this myopic view later in the same article:
Really? It's only Christian activists who care about this? A shameful article.
The fundamental difference between Christianity an Mohammedism is this.
Christians say "I will die for what I believe", because I have the example of Jesus Christ crucified and risen again. Muslims say "I will kill you if you do not believe as I do" because they have a false prophet and a cult which glorifies death and suffering.
I just heard Australian Prime Minister John Howard on the radio commenting on Abdul Rahman's trial. He said he found it shocking and made him feel sick (or words to that effect).
He didn't say what he would do about it - nothing I suspect.
End all "aid", spray the poppy fields with Agent Orange, and withdraw all allied troops NOW (make sure they bring Abdul Rahman with them).
How long will it be before Karzai's head falls into the dust in Kabul's "soccer" stadium when there's no infidel army there to support him? - two weeks?, one month?
Catherine,
Re: NO he went back to get his 2 daughter
Your point is well taken, as is mine, I hope.
There is no way for me to know how many Afghanis have returned home flush with enthusiasm, having taken the President at his word. Many may be women who believed the promise a new birth of freedom and emancipation from the cruel shackles of Sharia.
I know I took President Bush at face value. Indeed, I twice voted for him and generously financially supported both his campaigns and his legal battle against Mr. Gore. Given the same Democratic opponents, I would vote for him today. Having said that, I am extremely disappointed in his administration; the plight of Mr. Rahman being only one of many disappointments. With each passing crisis, I come closer to the conclusion that he is, as we say in Texas, all hat and no cattle.
He didn't say what he would do about it - nothing I suspect.
And the beat goes on.
We got rid of the Taliban and replaced them with 'our' Taliban....
“We have raised it in the strongest possible terms to make clear that it is our great hope and desire that Afghanistan will reaffirm what is already in its constitution, that the universal declaration on human rights will be respected, and that this will be resolved in a way that is consistent with those principles," Rice said.
I’m happy to read Condi’s statement. The UDHR and the International Covenants on Human Rights are strong principles, and they are difficult for any human society to consistently maintain in practice. Reality check: Afghanistan is a backward Islamic society. Even if the regime has officials favoring the goal of a long-term secularization of Afghanistan, & believe in principles of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society (ISIS), widespread progress in this regard, will not be truly evident for many years to come, if ever...
We got rid of the Taliban and replaced them with 'our' Taliban....
Put another way, we got rid of Osama's Moslems and replaced them with our Moslems. In Dar al Islam, that's what we call progress. At the Jizya cut-rate discount price of $1 billion dollars, of course. Mooches. Troublemakers. Moslems. Takers. Haters.
You gotta love these people, a billion innocent but murderous naifs ambling through deep green clover fields criss-crossed by bounding Unicorns basking in the brilliant sun, as these poor opressed pregorate raise their blood-soaked knives and declare supremacism and intention of total and final conquest.
Unfortunately Robert's and Hugh's fly on the wall conversations between Condi and Hamid are too close to the truth. The US will not pull out of Afghanistan, we need a strong presence there. If we leave, as many suggest, we just give it all back to the Taleban gratis. Yep, we lost a lot of blood here, spent an immense amount of treasure, and now we chuck it? Karzai knows he has us over a barrel. He knows we need Afghanistan strategically and tactically. We need it as a base of operations against Al Qaida, Iran, and to remind Pakistan of our presence in the neighborhood.
What Bush, Rice, and others, need to remember is that we did not invade Afganistan to bring freedom and democracy. We invaded to punish and administer retribution for 911. Since we installed Karzai we have gotten soft. It is time to bring the hammer down and build a government there to our satisfaction. We need to impose our will. Karzai needs to remember on which side is bread is buttered. Without our support his chances of survival are about that of Mr. Rahman's.
What I see out of the statements by the State Department is "plausible deniability". Of course they will say it is just terrible that Mr. Rahman stands to be executed but "they are a sovereign nation." "Oh, it is just too bad about Mr. Rahman but there is nothing we can do about it. Afghanistan is a sovereign nation and has its own laws." It seems to me we vetted their constitution before they approved it. It clearly stated that all laws would be in accordance with islam. Why didn't we stop this then? Is the current administration so ill advised about the tenets of islam that they couldn't foresee any problems? We are directly responsible for building this "government". Once again our ignorance of islam has once again bitten us in the part that we sit on.
It is in their hands now, how and what they do with him will be remembered. The light being placed on this will lay the facts plain, and the world is looking.Now, and in the future.
Islam, your move.
Horrible though this is for poor Mr. Rahman, this issue is bringing the pathetic nature of Islam into focus for the great mass of infidels. It is getting very hard to hide things like the death penalty for apostasy. The tyranny of Islam over the Christians (and anyone else in the reach of Sharia's rotten grasp) is becoming a new cause celebre. Rahman may end up being a real martyr, the kind so many Muslims would not recognize even if he crawled into the very Quran they revere, and died.
Step back a moment and think of how far we have come, and how we are on the precipice of another great leap forward. Three great blunders have been committed by our enemies before our very eyes, all in the course of less than six months. First the riots in France. Next, cartoon rage. How stupid are these people, really? The icing on the cake...sentencing an apostate to death, right there in the mainstream media for all to see. Even a tenured Columbia Middle Eastern studies professor can't find a silver lining.
The scales are finally falling from the eyes of the west. This is a fantastic development. Christians, and all people who value freedom of conscience, will not let this one go. If Rahman is executed it will do incalculable damage to the image of Islam, the nail that finally closes the coffin on "the religion of peace". We are entering into an age where state-to-state relations are disturbed over the implementation of Sharia. The line between barbarism and civilization could not be more clear.
Now is the time to press. Muslims in the west need to answer for this. Not in reprisals, but literally, they must answer: which is more important, Sharia or freedom of conscience? Even CAIR is running from this one. Poor suckers. Maybe a few thinking people will be so disgusted they will drop out of the cult entirely.
Quijybo,
Well said! Who knows, the American public may be shaken from its suicidal complacency. Why, it may demand of its elite actual, honest-to-goodness competent performance, displacing the typical banal bromides.
Again, well stated!
Posted by: Quijybo at March 23, 2006 11:41 PM
Gold Star for you today!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE HEROS PITY NOT THE COUNTRIES WHO NEED THEM AMEN
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
We have raised it in the strongest possible terms to make clear that it is our great hope...
Strongest possible terms? Is saying those 3 words really the strongest thing that can be said about a fake religion and miscreant Moslems? How about a few quotes of Sharia?
Great hope? Is saying those 2 words really hopeful? How about displaying a color-coded map of Islamic conquest over the past 1,390 years? A time phased map of that "progress" would bum anybody out. Anybody with a heart and soul, at least.
With a State Dept. like this, who needs teeth? Many habitues of the winning side prefer tootless, so triple-marker Condi c'est tres tres cool. Voila. Let the professors pull teeth, and let the state legislatures ratify an amendment that America must henceforth represent its own interest, and not those of fraudulent college professors, illegal aliens, reporter,s turncoat CIA workers, MSM hacks, or craven politicians.
The whole video is a toothless gum job. A stilleto heeled whip-cracking triple marker Condi delivering us unto evil.
With each passing crisis, I come closer to the conclusion that he is, as we say in Texas, all hat and no cattle.
Posted by: allen at March 23, 2006 11:03 PM
You're right Quiybo. All these leaders and intellectual snobs keep getting slapped in the face with Sharia, they may get the message. One can hope.
Condi has been such an embarassment. She has "UN Disease". Everyone is the same and want to be benevolent to each other. Can't let it go. Like Muslims clinging to Islam when it is exposed, Condi cannot let go of multiculturalism. Here's a question for Condi at her next press briefing, "Have you read the Quran and any of the Hadiths or the Sera of Mohammed?" I just want to make sure that our Secretary of State, who is extremely critical to this country's future, understands Islam. Of course I remember Tony Blair saying he had read the Koran and didn't find it disagreeable or some such nonsense. No one in the media questioned it because none of them had read it either. Some things never change.
Stop all aid now, withdraw all allied forces now, and bring brave Abdul Rahman out, we need people like him.
Posted by: Ozi_bloke
If it were only possible. We have to preasure Bush hard on this one people. be relentless.
White every senator you can and demand this man his human rights.
Write the UN and demand this man his human rights.
Demand Bush and Condi WAKE THE HELL UP and realize Islam is what it is, and to STOP wasting the blood of our sons, and a treasure of our nation only to write Islam back into these countries constitutions.
Demand that they actually READ and understand ALL Islamic scripture, not just the Koran, but the Hadith as well, and UNDERSTAND where terrorism comes from.
It well past time our leaders be given a CLEAR message from ALL of us who understand what Islam really is, right and left wing alike, To understand once and for all what Islam is, and to quit wasting the blood of our sons and the treasure of our nation on this silly notion of "Islam is a religion of peace". It is not, and we will not win a war against them if we refuse to understand who they are.
So let me get this straight overthrowing the Taliban wasnt interfering with a nations sovereignity yet telling the very ungrateful government that was put in its place to not murder a man is going to far. The way I look at it this government was put in place because the other was a violator of basic human rights and a threat to the world. If we let these clowns get away with this the war on terror has no credibility.
Karzai knows he has us over a barrel. He knows we need Afghanistan strategically and tactically. We need it as a base of operations against Al Qaida, Iran, and to remind Pakistan of our presence in the neighborhood.
Posted by: Caratacus
If we had a president with even half the balls of Mr. Rahman, we'd kill them all, at least all the clerics and Imams, and force the submission of all, retrain them in the spirit of freedom and spiritual goodness.
Bush however, is determined to get us bogged down like the russians were, because they never had the guts to do what needed to be done either.
The only way to change a country completely, is to conquer it completely and install your values and religion on them. That's how Islam does it, and that's why they are successfully at it.
Harsh but true reality time. Fight to win, or lay down and be subdued. The weak never win wars, never have and never will.
OT but very important!!!
Statement By Anti-CAIR’s Andrew Whitehead Regarding Dismissal of CAIR Libel Suit
Forgot the most important part:
2) Why didnt the 'Peace Activists' refuse to be rescued by the 'filthy Coalition INVADERS' that they were in Iraq to protest about after all they were in the hands of the 'Peace Loving ,Tolerant Muslims' they support what possibly could be the problem?
Posted by: Realist
Because it was all a fraud. There were no "terrorists" around because there never were. They were not tied and bound. They had free run of the house, food in the fridge. They could have walked out the door at any time but they didn't.
And please don't call them "Christians" because they are anything but a Christian. They support satan's helpers, there ARE Satan's helpers themselve. Thier "Church" embraces sin, defies the laws of the Lord. They are heritics.
"This people honors me only with lip-service, while their hearts are far from me. The worship they offer me is worthless; the doctrines they teach are only human regulations." (Matt.15:8-9).
Posted by: Lisa
What is the mutualy agreeable settlement?
If we had a president with even half the balls of Mr. Rahman, we'd kill them all.
There is the myth that the Ivy League colleges administer only lobotomies to qualify for a diploma. That's not at all true, they also make their boy students submit to emasculation. Reagan, our last non-Yalie president, did not undergo this lurid prestige-for-balls ritual and showed some leadership.
Wonder what Reagan'd do with all these scowling Moslems running our lives in 2006. What would he do? Think he'd have the principle to tell the actual truth and call a spade a spade?
Looks like Mr. Rahman is safe....
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18586085-23109,00.html
Afghan convert 'won't face death'
From: Agence France-Presse From correspondents in Ottawa, Canada
March 24, 2006
AN Afghan man prosecuted for converting from Islam to Christianity will not face the death penalty, Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper said today after speaking with Afghanistan's president.
"I phoned President (Hamid) Karzai personally yesterday to express our concern. He conveyed to me that we don't have to worry about any such eventual outcome," Mr Harper told reporters in Ottawa.
"He had already spoken prior to my call with the attorney general of Afghanistan about dealing with the situation ... (He) assured me that what's alarmed most of us will be worked out quickly ... in a way that fully respects religious rights, religious freedoms and human rights."
Mr Abdul Rahman, 41, was arrested just over two weeks ago, when his parents informed the police about his conversion in what Mr Harper described as "a family quarrel".
Mr Rahman is believed to be the first convert accused in Afghanistan under strict Islamic Sharia law for refusing to return to Islam since the fall of the Taliban regime.
Bush and Rice are wimps. Remember when the US had a real leader like Teddy Roosevelt.
In 1904 a Trenton man named Ion Perdicaris became the 20th century's first American victim of Middle Eastern terrorism. Perdicaris wasn't even a US citizen.
Perdicaris and his stepson found themselves taken hostage from their villa in Tangier, Morocco by a scruffy band of rifle-toting Muslim tribesmen (sound familiar?).
The bandits' chief was Mulai Ahmed er Raisuli, and he wanted to extort a heavy ransom. President Theodore Roosevelt sent battleships steaming toward the African coast to ensure Perdicaris' safe release.
It also gave Roosevelt the chance to issue one of his most blood-curdling proclamations, a statement that helped ensure his re-election while sending Americans wild with joy:
"Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!"
Both hostages were released unharmed.
Mullamasher,
I don't know the details of the settlement, as they are not posted. But obviously the settlement does not bar ANTI-CAIR from making the above statements. A typical settlement includes a release of all claims know or unknown as of the date of settlement, and a covenant not to sue again on the same subject matter in the future.
Alarmed Pig Farmer-
I doubt it. We need a whole lot of new blood in government who understand what's going on in this world, and isn't afraid to take the bull by the horns.
So much needs to be done, it seems impossible to do it; corruption is everywhere. The UN needs to be leveled as well. It's become just as dangerous as muslims with nukes. Bush needs to nuke two places NOW, leveling one of them completely, and it isn't Iran.
Mullmasher,
From the ANTI-CAIR website linked in my message above:
Posted by: Ozi_bloke -
Good for harper if true. He would face quick opposition to Canadian troops being in Afghanistan in charge of the Nato duties there if this man was to be killed for his Christianity. Harpers entire support comes from Christians in Canada. Considering he was just there a week ago and met with Afghanistans president, this report probably is fairly accurate.
If anything happens to Mr Arahman (Mohammads origional name for his allah god) People in canada would be screaming to get the troops out.
Lisa -
I wonder if Andrew won any expense money from CAIR. I guess that may be something he can't divulge.
corruption is everywhere
Mark my words. A case about Islam encroachment will be put to the Supreme Court before long. And our corrupt but presitigious and brilliant judges will roll over. And this catastrophic failure in our judical system, made by intellectually corrupt judges, will beg our 4th branch of our 3-branch government, the military, to move in and put things right.
This will happen. The course is already set, especially given our fake disource based on a fraudlent lexicon. That leads nowhere, except, inexorable, into the realm of Dar al Islam. Allahu.
All this call for freeing Abdul Rahman misses an important point. If he stays in prison, he is a victim of injustice. If he walks, he would be a walking bull's-eye. The expectation that any and every Muslim who wants to apostate should be welcome with open arms into dar-ul-harb is ridiculous: that way, two things would happen:
- An increasing number of infidels get cramped into infidel lands, while more and more countries, like Malaysia, get annexed into dar ul islam.
- Even more dangerous, taqqiya artists pretending to be apostates would get to come over, and become time bombs in infidel societies.
The real subject of this discussion in the media (not here in J/W, where we have it right) ought to be the practice of death to apostates from Islam, and not just because Afghanistan is currently under US occupation. Otherwise, would this be totally justified if there were no US troops around? This spotlight ought to remain, and the denounciations that occur ought to arise not from a criticism of the Afghans, Iraqis or Algerians, but Islam!
Caratacus:
It seems to me we vetted their constitution before they approved it. It clearly stated that all laws would be in accordance with Islam. Why didn't we stop this then? Is the current administration so ill advised about the tenets of Islam that they couldn't foresee any problems?
Islam is a noble religion, what possibly could have gone wrong by enshrining Islam into the constitution?
The argument we hear from supporters of Islam when something indefensible happens in the name of Islam is that the problem is not Islam but how it is practiced. Unfortunately, Islam then seems to have a universal problem of being mal-practiced.
Then, the argument we hear from supporters of Islam when a Muslim (usually in the form of a fatwa) says something indefensible is that no one speaks for Islam. Yet those same people then proclaim the virtues of Islam. But why should I listen then.
Islam is how it is manifested by the actions and silent acquiescence to intolerance and terror of its followers today. If Islam is the religion of peace and tolerance then Muslims themselves are the greatest offence to Islam.
Posted by: Provoslavni -
remnants of the barbary pirates no doubt, LoL!
Here's a little bit of forgotten American history dealing with these islamic pirates:
After the war of Independence,the New United States of America was desperate for trade in the 1780’s. It’s economy was in shambles, and it’s paper money was almost worthless. The ousted British excluded American vessels from their dominion of Canada, the West Indies and Britain. Moreover, the British no longer protected American merchant ships, which had traded heavily in the Mediterranean before the revolutionary war.
As a result, in July 1785, Algerian Barbary pirates seized two American ships of the coast of Portugal and forced 21 American Sailors into slave labor. Morocco seized another ship, but soon freed the American crew in exchange for a ransom of $25,000.
Thus began the first foreign policy crisis for the USA-how to manage the Barbary pirates who demanded “tributes” from the USA in return for safe passage of her ships, and ransoms for captured sailors and passengers.
By 1797, three ships, including the USS constitution (old ironsides) were completed. When George Washington died on Dec 14 1997, Yusuf, the pasha of Tripoli informed President Adams that it was customary when a great man passed away from a tributary state to make a gift in his name to the crown of Tripoli. Yusuf estimated Washington to be worth $10,000. When, in the spring of 1801, Yusuf had not yet received the cash, he summoned the American representative to his court, demanded that he kiss his hand, and relay a message to the USA that the annual tribute would be raised to $250,000. and $25,000. worth of goods of his choice. If refused, the alternative was war. To make his point, Yusuf had his men chop down the flagpole in front of the US consulate, a significant gesture in a land of no trees and one that meant war.
The reason that no tribute had been forthcoming is that Tomas Jefferson had been elected president. To his horror, he learned that tributes and ransoms paid to Barbary had exceeded $2,000,000., about one fifth of the entire US governments annual income.
Prior to Thomas Jefferson becoming president, he had interactions with the rulers of the Barbary States of North Africa for at least 15 years, first as Ambassador to France and then as Secretary of state to President George Washington. He and congress were fed up with what they considered outright blackmail. The slogan of the day became “Millions for defense, not a penny for tribute”. This was a change in tenor from President John Adams who declared in 1787 “ We aught not fight them at all, least we determine to fight them forever”.
Congress immediately ended tributes. The Pasha of Tripoli became enraged, and on May 10 1801, declared war on the USA, thus beginning the Tripolitan war, also called the Barbary Wars of 1801 to 1805. The Pasha’s allies in Morocco, Algiers and Tunis followed suit. Jefferson, anticipating the Pasha’s actions, had already informed congress and sent three frigates, (the President, the Philadelphia, and the war sloop Enterprise) under the command of commodore Richard Dale to defend America’s interests in the Mediterranean
When Commodore Dale reached Gibraltar on July 1, 1801, he learned that war had already been declared on his ships, and quickly shifted his mission from a cruise of observation to a state of war. He ordered the bulk of his squadron to Tripoli, which, he learned, was protected by a rocky reef and a large citadel with smaller forts overlooking the harbor.
After two years of war with Tripoli, the USA had accomplished little. But all this changed when commodore Edward Preble assumed command of a seven ship, 2,000 man fleet in June 1803. A veteran of the continental navy, Preble had been a prisoner of the British aboard the notorious prison hulk Jersey.
Preble had a reputation as a short tempered and stern disciplinarian. However, he was admired for his great courage, his fairness in dealing with his men, and his expertise as a mariner. Indeed, treble trained a group of men loyal to him (e.g., Stephen Decatur, William Bainbridge and others) during that voyage that later became hero’s of the US Navy.
In October 1803, Captain William Bainbridge ran aground the USS Philadelphia on a reef at the entrance to Tripoli Harbor. The Pasha’s men quickly took the ship and crew and moved them near the Tripoli Citadel. Preble knew he had no chance of re capturing the Philadelphia. Instead, he sent Lieutenant Stephen Decatur in to the harbor on a night raid using a captured Tripolitan ship, now renamed the Intrepid. The Intrepid coasted up to the Philadelphia, boarded her, set her on fire and escaped. As a result of these heroic efforts, Decatur at age 25 years, was appointed the youngest Captain in the US Navy. This early navel event is one of the most famous in US history.
Preble pressed on. He shelled Tripoli repeatedly, all the while requesting the Pasha, now Karamanli, negotiate for the release of Bainbridge and his crew.
In September 1804, Preble tried to run a raiding party into the harbor by loading the Intrepid with gunpowder and exploding it amongst the Corsair ships. This plan however, failed, as pirates cannoned the Intrepid and blew her up, obliterating the ship and her crew. Preble was called home and replaced by Commodore Barron, who continued the blockade of Tripoli.
Preble died a year later of tuberculosis.
Jefferson had opened negotiations with Yusuf Karamanli through Tobias Lear, former secretary to George Washington. The Yusuf realized that he was doomed, and negotiated for peace by accepting the last American offer of $60,000. for the release of the American prisoners and approved a new treaty that did not require the payments of tributes. Eaton’s mercenaries were denied the opportunity of the spoils of war and rebelled and hamet returned to Egypt. The American Fleet returned to American waters and the public largely forgot the Barbary wars.
In 1807 the Algerians (not the Tripolitans) seized three American ships and again demanded ransom for her crew. Thus, the Barbary wars continued in this way for another 7 years. Following the war of 1812, Stephen Decatur entered the Mediterranean with ten tall ships and the steely determination that made him a hero. Like Preble before him, he let his cannons do the talking. Fighting fire with fire, he took 486 Algerians prisoner and demanded the Algerians pay $10,000 immediately for the release of the prisoners and to cease and desist all further demands for tributes from America forever. Such insurmountable logic was not lost on the Dey. Likewise, the Dey of Tunis paid Decatur $46,000 not to hurt him, and the Pasha of Tripoli contributed $25,000. to see the last of the Americans.
Decatur broke the Barbary threat with the only weapon the pirates understood.
Lasting lessons from the Barbary wars include the maxim articulated by President James Madison (1809-1817) as follows: “The United States, whilst they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace from none.” Furthermore he said;” The settled policy of the United states is that “as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute”.
Posted by: Infidel Pride -
What we want to see is fredom for all people in Islamic countries, whether they decide to leave the cult, or if they are already Christians, or Jews, or Hindu's etc.
We need to make our governments stand up and demand peoples human rights be upheld in the countries they live. We need to DEMAND the Saudi's, Kiwait, The United Emerates, allow all people complete freedom and equality in those countries without exception.
If the cult of Islam has a problem with it, too damn bad. Re write the Koran and claim it was changed byterrorists in the first place.
This is something the UN should be barking about, but notice how quiet they are over Mr. Rahmans case? Yet the UN is where the international community agreed on basic human rights issues.
Toleranceorappeasment: Are you telling me, the Israeli's can't buy a US software company because of national security issues, yet the Bush administration will gladley let the fox into the hen house with the port deal? We're being sold out.
Mullahmasher sez: We need to DEMAND the Saudi's, Kiwait, The United Emerates, allow all people complete freedom and equality in those countries without exception.
If the cult of Islam has a problem with it, too damn bad. Re write the Koran and claim it was changed byterrorists in the first place.
Good luck... I dont think anyone will re-write the Quran anytime soon. And complete freedom is incompatible with Islam, who's name is submission, and all its muslims are submitters.
These Afghan clerics are only following Sharia law as set forth by Mohammad and his prophet Allah. Allah hates the guts of all non believers, this includes Jews, Christians and oddly enough Pigmy headhunters from the Congo.
But most of all, he hates apostates. Apostates pay no tax. An apostate may or may not get a chance to repent and return to submission, but if he holds fast to his new faith or no faith, he will probably be killed...Sharia law, watch for it at a courthouse/mosque near you.
This is really the small print - for all those wishing to join Islam.
You can join - but the one who converts you is obliged to kill you if and when you decide to leave.
Islam doesn't just have one foot in the dark ages - it is in the dark ages!
I've no time for these people at all. No time for their presence in Iraq in the first place; no time for their lack of gratitude to the servicemen who rescued them. Simply appalling.
But I'm not sure that they remained there willingly. A piece in today's Telegraph says that it is thought that Tom Fox may have been shot while trying to escape.
Full text: SAS moved at dawn as prisoner cracked.
BTW, this also in today's Telegraph:
Immigrants may have to sign new EU contract
In my view, this is evidence that politicians in Europe are still fiddling while Rome burns. Paris literally. Any nation that is serious in dealing with this problem would take its immigration and border policies back from the EU. And it would apply far more stringent criteria than these.
This is indicative:
And the ministers' point is?
This shows that the tenets of failed ways of looking at the world still hold their minds in thrall. This is the sad thing. The political class in Europe is imprisoned by its own failed political ideology. At this stage one has to say that there is something pathological about this: they are actually willing to sacrifice others' lives to their own good opinion of themselves (their good opion of themselves being shaped in accordanace with a certain ideology).
As the incomparable Hugh remarked recently, politicians are failing in their "primal duty to protect".
Oh, ho - sorry for a 3rd slightly Ot post - but check this out:
A message from Dr Imran Waheed
It's yet another attempt to use legal means to supress information:
Quijybo, spot on.
Robert's imagined conversation between Condi and Karzai brilliantly reminds of another hilarious phone conversation only one side of which was audible, the one in Dr. Strangelove, where we only hear Peter Sellers, who is playing the hapless American president on the phone telling the Russian premier, addressed as "Dimitri", that the U.S. has accidentally launched a massive nuclear strike at Russia.
Robert, we see how extremely good you are at imaginative play. You should consider employing such creative conceits more often as an educational tool, not to mention for sheer fun.
I'm also reminded of the device used by William Safire and Michael Ledeen on occasion -- they too have invented phone conversations, though in their case the interlocutors were deceased persons -- Safire 'spoke' with Nixon, for example, and I think Ledeen with William Casey...
Pat Tillman died for this?
Mullahmasher,
It is helpful and proper if you provide the source of words that are not your own.
There is another version of the Barbary war, and it has less of a positive view of the events.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/ustripolitanwar/a/piratecoast.htm
I found this book to be interesting, but there is a little too much of the author's personality displayed, and the usual dramatic embellishments meant for the "general reader" for my taste. I also sensed some propaganda value that justified Bush's "War on Terror", which is problematic.
It has been a long time since 9/11. Let's keep our heads about us and do a little review before the final test-which IS coming.
Does anyone remember why 9/11 happened? Islamic enforcers flew planes into the WTC because the West was not living by the laws of Allah-we were infidels who deserved to die. (Like the Cole bombing-we were attacked because our presence as infidels in the world of Allah was not acceptable). If we backtrack on this Rahman case, we're basically saying that the same principle, lethal enforcement of Islam, in smaller doses (1 man's death versus 3000 men's deaths-all for not following the rule of Allah) is ok. Would 50 be ok then? How about 200? Or is the threshhold on the acceptability of this principle only 3,000? Where exactly is the line for acceptable dead infidels?
Does anybody remember why we went into Afghanistan? To kill, punish, remove the Taliban and other slaves of the God pretender Osama who killed our infidel citizens. If the "new improved" Afghan government enforces Islamism by the sword, then who did we allow to fill the void of the Taliban? Same critters-Islamists who believe that anyone not following Mohammad and his pimp Allah must die-just a different general manager. If we're really "taking this war to the enemy", does that mean that 3,000 dead infidels in Afghanistan is ok, but not 3000 dead infidels in the US? We must demand clarity of purpose in our foreign policy.
Americans, our course of action should be obvious to all of us, of every political stripe. We are NOT going to accept loss of blood and money to prop up an Islamic government that executes Christians. What do we do?
1) We remind President Bush that this is his moment of truth. He said he was taking the battle to the terrorists. He said that "you're either with us or against us". Now he must choose-has he broken camp with the American people, or is he still with us, in war against the creature that brought us 9/11? That creature is Islam by the sword. Identifying the enemy will be required-there is no hiding from it, as we should know by now.
2) We MUST remove the shackles around our military's feet and give them rein to do what must be done-use force in ways found up til now 'unacceptable'. Now THAT's an adaptable military.
3) We MUST demand our Congress move to strike all funding to ANY Islamic government that kills non-believers-economic, reconstructive, debt, ALL of it. It is up to each of us to put fire under their feet.
There hasn't been a worthwhile massing of citizens in the US decades, but the execution of a non-Muslim by the new Afghanistan government should no doubt qualify as worth protesting. If there can be a Million Man March, there can be a 2,000,000 man March Against Religious Persecution. No time like now.
Americans, we must do this. Recognize the power of our people and use it-don't cower or become distracted about our military forces in the field, if you value what they are fighting for.
An ingrate Afghanistan that allows the very same mentality that brought us 9/11 should no longer fall into the "save, fund and soothe" purview of American foreign policy. It now is in the "abetters of my enemy" category, which earns it the new qualification as "enemy targets".
These horrifying but hopefully eye-opening (for all) revelations in Afghanistan about Islam could have been predicted. The majority of Afghans most likely do believe apostates should be tortured & killed and this highlights, in bright red lights, the enormous contradiction in trying to establish anything like Western style democracies and freedoms in Islamic lands. Islam already is a form of government that is by its own creed is absolutely not to be superseded.
But the contradiction is in the West too. Amnesty International and most people in the West will claim that “The freedom to practice [fully presumably] one's own faith without fear of retribution is one of humanity's most sacred rights” , but this is thoughtless nonsense. It is a traditional and inseparable part of the “religion” of Islam that apostates should be killed. A number of offenses are punishable by stoning in the practice of this religion. Should this legitimate practice of a religion be allowed? In the West we simply cannot allow Islam to be fully practiced – i.e., not really practiced because it is so horribly criminal. In my opinion, Islam should be outlawed – by constitutional amendment if necessary – just as is human sacrifices to gods.
Here’s a photo of Koran based Islamic PRACTICE in the West: http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/november/OGRISH-dot-com-theo_van_gogh_with_knife.jpg
Here are some videos of the faithful duly PRACTICING their religion. Will you affirm their freedom of religious practice?
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/handcutting.htm
“The freedom to practice [fully presumably] one's own faith without fear of retribution is one of humanity's most sacred rights” , but this is thoughtless nonsense."
Actually, I don't disagree with you on this particular point. Critical thought should be rigorously applied to such sacred "religious practices" as execution for apostasy. We can discern.
RE: Mullamasher's repost of Provo's short history of the Barbary War.
And thus the United States Marine Corps was born. To this day they're called leathernecks because they were ordered to wrap leather around their necks while in battle. Seems the holy Moslem fighters took literally Mohammed's preference for slashing the throats of enemies of Allah, hopefully beheading said enemies of Allah.
Seen any beheadings lately?
They are a sovereign government. It's a sovereign country.
How about the United States of America, Condi. Are we a sovereign country? Based on your actions, you seem not to think so.
Here is yet another perfect example of how Islam, fully revealed, is islamo-fascism and nothing else. How many (sane) people, if they knew the facts, would want it here in America?
It's time western liberals and other stopped trying to put a nicer face on Islam--because clearly Islam hasn't got one. It never will.
The world community must get over this and deal with it. And then dispatch this unequaled and unparalleled horror along with its killer-zombies permanently into the land of 72 whatevers.
this is the voice of the moderate muslim...
enuff said.
"Pat Tillman died for this?"
-from a posting above
President Bush must now see that through this trial his great foreign policy venture threatens to turn into the most absurd possible error in the most pointed and visible way.
This war has been a test of the Bush democracy doctrine, and this trial is shaping up to be the test within the test.
In fact this trial is threatening to become the punchline of the terribly long and unfunny shaggy-dog story of our presence for the last several years in Iraq and Afghanistan.
When Robert Spencer in his recent Frontpagemag.com article suggested Bush should work for the removal of the Shariah provisions in the Afghan constitution, I could only applaud.
During these war years President Bush has perhaps been inferring that
Except this trial defeats all and makes farce of 2600 wonderful soldiers' ultimate sacrifice.
I hope President Bush is upending every piece of furniture in his foreign policy world and busting the tails of those who advised him a bit of Shariah in a constitution is ok. I hope he won't settle for the status quo he set up.
But more likely what we are seeing here is the now-irreversible tragic-farcical climax of the Bush policy of trying to liberate Afghanistan and Iraq while compromising with Shariah.
Karzi will never permit the conviction nor execution, but they should put Rahman's wife on trial for stupidity as she turned him in....isn't the world love in the Qu'ran somewhere?