Secretary Rice stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that there could be anything wrong with arming more and more Muslims and Indonesia seems to be her new found "moderate Muslim" country: the shining example Iraq refuses to become in her "Light Unto The Muslim Nations" scheme. From the Sydney Morning Herald:
THE US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, has called for complete reform of Indonesia's armed forces, but backed stronger military links as part of a new "strategic partnership".Speaking in Jakarta before leaving for Sydney last night, Dr Rice defended ending a US ban on full military ties, despiten allegations of continued human rights abuses.
"A reformed and effective Indonesian military is in the interest of everyone in this region, because threats to our common security have not disappeared," she said. "We look for continued progress toward greater accountability and complete reform."
Progress had been made on improving the military's conduct and eliminating corruption within it, she said. The US would provide greater military aid to help overcome regional security threats, including terrorism.
Dr Rice endorsed President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's reforms, saying changes in Indonesia proved it was possible to overcome sectarian and ethnic differences to build a democracy.
She complained that detractors, including the hundreds of Islamic protesters who have picketed her visit, misunderstood the US and its tolerant attitudes towards religion, including Islam.
Questioned by business people and academics after her speech, Dr Rice said the US rarely needed military power to achieve change, and its relationship with Indonesia was "not paternalism, it's a partnership"...
And conservatives want her to run for President? Now I'm scared! She may actually be worst than Hillary Rodman Clinton!!!
BTW, isn't this the Ides of March? I'm awaiting the announcement of the winners (or lack thereof) of Hugh's contest.
Indonesia should be commended for internal change in terms of being a dictatorship to a full-fledge democracy. The nation is not perfect, but it shows that democracy can work in a Muslim setting.
The ONLY people in Indonesia to whom the US should supply arms are the Dyaks of Borneo who know how to treat jihadists(in exactly the same way that they treat everybody else)
Why supply arms at all? Communism is defunct. It sounds like as imple commercial decision to sell the the arms before the Chinese or teh Russians do so. A good business man has no politics and no ethics.
CR is just arming our enemies. Just who would have a problem with this???
We sold iron to Japan before WWII. I guess we need to have a good strong enemy to fight.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
longtime lurker--
The contest ends tonight at 12 p.m. EST.
Engagement is the only real long term winning strategy for quelling the jihad urge among 'moderate muslims' (if such a thing exists).
Historically speaking, Indonesia's muslim population has been a US ally (...as my grandfather's PT boat rescued the sultan of ternate in 44). That is NOT to suggest they are still an ally, but, in the pre-war build up to WWII, the US policy of Engagement was the strength and weakness of repelling the Japanese.
Whats happened since? Where has the US dis-engaged in the Pacific? Where has jihad become a problem? Oh let me count the ways: Phillipines, Indonesia, Papua-New Guinea...
It seems that the Bush policy of "Engagement or Invasion" seems to be very slowly working. Lets keep it up - as we will be needing many partners in cutting out the cancer of global jihad.
Assalamau Alaikum Paladin
Let me start by saying that Islam and the use of Sharia attempts to keep a sense of balance that is critical for the survival of humankind.
Islam is a religion that does not generate jealousy in the followers of other religions in general and among the followers of monotheist religions in particular. Note that it accepts and confirms all monotheist religions to be the Divine inspired religions. As the Quran says “It is He Who sent down to thee in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel” (3:3).
The Quran enjoins the believers to have faith in all the Prophets alike and neither make any distinction between them nor separate Allah from His prophets in matter of faith (4: 150,151).
We Muslims believe as much in Moses and Jesus Christ as they believe in Muhammad (peace be upon him), as the Prophets of Allah.
Then why should Christians or jews envy or be jealous of some one who believes in Muhammad and his laws as the Prophet of Allah which ofcourse automatically implies belief in Allah and all His Prophets.
Islam is not tied to any particular name, place or any worldly entity. This has been explicitly explained in another Quranic verse which says “He laid down the same religion for you as He enjoined on Noah, that which he revealed to you which he enjoined on Ibrahim, Moses and Jesus Christ.” (42:13)
This fact is more explicitly manifest from another Quranic verse which says “To each among you, We have prescribed a Law (Shariah) and an open way. If Allah Willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He has given you. So strive as in race in all virtues. (5:48).
This verse clearly tells us that it was not in the Divine scheme of things that all the people shall follow the same law (Shariah). Although all the religions are to be the same in so far as the basic element of faith is concerned, which could *only* be the Unity of Allah, the followers of every Prophet have to follow a different Law (Shariah) so that they are tested in what has been given to them.
That’s why the Quran says “whosoever among the Muslims, or Jews or Sabaeans or the Christians believe in Allah and the last day and do righteous deeds will have no cause of fear or grief” (5:69).
I hope you now see that Islam is expressly based on the principles of balance and justice. As the Quran says “He raised the heavens height and set the balance. Therefore, do not upset the balance” (55:7,8).
After creating the heavens and other celestial bodies Allah placed them in proper order so as to maintain the requisite balance, a principle that we too should follow in our own sphere of activities.
The Quran says again “We sent the Messengers with clear signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance so that the people stand by justice” (57:52).
At the same time it expects the believers to be people who are justly balanced (2:143) and exhorts them to keep to moderation in every walk of life (31:19).
Thus you can see that Sharia is critical to the survival of humankind.
How can a religion that lays so much emphasis on the acquisition of knowledge, maintenance of balance, doing of justice and observance of moderation be a retrogressive and violent religion.
Naseem...Thus you can see that Sharia is critical to the survival of humankind.
Take sharia and Islam and put them where the sun dont shine. Sharia has to be forced on sane people. No one in their right mind would volunteer for this oppressive system. Muslims, such as yourselves, are NOT in your right mind...Islam has contaminated your spirit with black goo. It shows in your writings...
Weren,t the natives playing up a few weeks ago disrupting USA/Kissenger interests a few weeks ago..
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/politically-incorrect-guide-to-hand-in.html
Zathras:
Some of the Borneo Dayaks converted to Islam during the 1990s and today are themselves JIHADISTS. You may thank Gus Dur for this I have been told.
The massacre of Madurese in Kalimantan a few years back may well have been the result of an Islamic schism between opposing Islamic factions and not the anti-jihadist revolution you would like it to have been (folks from the Middle East have been illegally immigrating into Indonesia for many years now and have been spreading their literal Islamic orthodoxies throughout the region). In other words, the Dayak tribespeople that massacred the Madurese migrants may themselves have been jihadists and not anti-jihadists. Muslims have been known to massacre other Muslims. However, an investigation into the matter was never attempted. Jakarta crooks and the military may have been involved in the massacres and kept the matter hushed up which would explain why so little was ever sufficiently explained concerning this ugly episode.
Such is life in the Republic of BIN-donesia.
Sorry, you got your hopes up, buddy.
"Engagement is the only real long term winning strategy for quelling the jihad urge among 'moderate muslims' (if such a thing exists)....Historically speaking, Indonesia's muslim population has been a US ally (...as my grandfather's PT boat rescued the sultan of ternate in 44)."
-- from a posting above
The Dutch East Indies, which is what Indonesia was in 1944 when your grandfather's PT boat (or was it the crew?) was rescued by a local potentate, had for years been subject to a regime that protected Christians (and allowed for missionary work) and Hindus, suppressed political Islam (among the advisors to the Dutch administration, in previous decades, had been C. Snouck Hurgronje, whose knowledge and understanding of Islam prevented a good deal of wasted time and wasted attempts at winning (fleetingly, falsely) hearts and minds, but instead sensibly focussed on limiting the appeal, emotional and practical, and hence the power, of Islam. In any case, it is anecdotal evidence of nothing more than one sultan, and one PT boat.
Indonesia is not and has not been an "ally" of the United States. Tell me in what way it has been an "ally" in the way, say, that Australia has, or Singapore, to take two countries right nearby? Did the Indonesians engage in mass murders of non-Muslims, including ethnic Chinese? Has it made life difficult for Hindus in Bali? Did the Indonesian army kill 200,000 Christian East Timorese until the Australians, with U.N> approval, moved in? Have Christians been routinely killed in the Moluccas, and thousands of churches destroyed? the answer to all of those question is Yes.
There are ways to limit the appeal of Islam. One way, in Indonesia in particular, is to emphasize its pre-Islamic past and non-Islamic elements in its present. Gamelans and batik. A visit by an American dignitary (too late for Condoleeza Rice) to Borobudur, with expressions of wonder and delight -- given plenty of publicity. Indonesians invited to conferences on "Belief-systems and Diversity" (a word ordinarily put to awful, and now being put to good, use), at which Berbers, Kurds, a black African Muslim from a group massacred by Arabs, and yes, some Indonesians, will discuss Arab supremacist ideology and how Islam has always been a vehicle for it, and how, therefore, Islam needs to be reformed. No more Sunna, based on seventh-century Arabs. No more "Arabic-only" Qur'an readings, a change which would help to contextualize the Qur'an and put it back into history, undercutting its sacred authority. No more taking of Arabic names, so that descendants of Hindus and Buddhists are running around Indonesia (or Pakistan) claiming to be Sayeeds, or descendants of the Prophet.
No, we need to weaken the hold Islam has on people. And if Infidels insist on thinking that we must appeal to "moderate Muslims" and must do nothing to offend them, they will be doing what is being done now -- and what is being done is not working. It is not working to create some kind of Light Unto the Muslim Nations in Iraq. It is not working to diminish Muslim oil revenues, that is to say the "wealth" weapon. It is not working in putting Muslims on notice that more and more of us will not be fooled about the nature of Islam; we will read Qur'an and Haditha and the biographies of Muhammad; we will figure out what Muslims naturally make of these texts; we will study abrogation; we will analyze how that handful of seemingly reasonable remarks, such as Sura 2.256, are used to fool Infidels about Islam; we will study the history of Muslim conquests and subjugation of non-Muslims in detail, and learn what, beyond the Jizyah (which is quite enough) was demanded of all those non-Muslims so subjugated; we will compare, and notice the astonishing similarity, in the treatment of non-Muslims over time (1350 years) and space(from Spain to the East Indies); we will not accept the nonseense offered by the Michael-Sellses brigade of apologists, even if they rise high in the academic ranks (we will simply revise our opinion downward even more, at the current state of standards in American academic life).
And that can't be stopped. Whether it is done by enough people, in time, so that they may force changes in governments run by people who are unwilling, unable, too stupid, too lazy, too obstinate, too something, to do what they should be doing, learning what they should be learning -- that's another question.
That was either the "daughter-home-from-uni" or one of the other, better educated and more articulate (and a better speller) Naseems. A neighbor, perhaps?
G.W. Bush and all of his gang have got to be the most incompetent, spineless, and brainless bunch of people to lead The United States.
A Colt 45 has plenty of kick and influence that even a child can wield, usually with disastrous results, but put it into the hands of someone who knows what he or she is doing, and all the strength can be harnessed to accomplish a set purpose.
Where is there true leadership in the US anyway?
What about Anthony Robbins? (pun)
PJ
pythagoras
How about some some links to your claims that the Dayaks that attacked the Madurese where Moslems
Zathras:
Birute Galdikas, who I know personally (check out her website Orangutan Foundation International.com) observed signposts by villages in Central Kalimantan reading "Muslim Dayak" during the 1990s. Central Kalimantan was one of the localities where the Dayak-Madurese conflict took place. I called OFI on this and asked who it was who converted these people. Although they have not found out who it was who converted these people, it is now nonetheless a fact that some of the Dayak tribespeople are Muslim and go to the mosques--and are most likely aware of jihad ideology if not practitioners of it. The most likely converters of the Dayak tribespeople were members of the Indonesian Armed forces.
That's about all I can tell you. But since there ARE now Muslim Dayaks jihad warfare from these people is a possibility that cannot be written off.
Indonesia? Moderate?
yeah right. That's why they are trying to push through 'porn' laws that would make public showings of affection illegal and any baring of any skin in public. Locked up for showing a shoulder...Very moderate!
Bali (victim of course of typical Muslim atrocities) has said it will seek indpendence if the law is passed.
we should ISOLATE and LOCK DOWN ourselves from these Muslim countries with extreme prejudice. Not do deals with them.