Islamic Tolerance Alert from ABS-CBN News, with thanks to Twostellas:
The Saudi Arabian Embassy in Manila has issued a warning that entry of non-Muslims into the cities of Mecca and Medina, the two holy places in Islam, is strictly prohibited, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said Tuesday.Oscar G. Valenzuela, DFA Assistant Secretary for Middle East and African Affairs, said transgressors are subject to severe punishment if caught.
He said the Saudi Arabian Embassy has warned that such infractions may have serious religious repercussions.
Reports reaching the DFA said false certificates of Muslim identity have been used by some overseas workers to illegally enter Saudi Arabia as umrah and hajj pilgrims. The Office of Muslim Affairs earlier warned that persons found in possession of or attempting to obtain false certificates of Muslim identity will be prosecuted.
There go my summer vacation plans!
"... persons found in possession of ... false certificates of Muslim identity will be prosecuted."
Right on. Those 3 sixes tattoed on the forehead must be clearly visible at all times.
I don't understand why muslims would want to go.
Seems like "Mecca" and "trampled to death" are becoming synonymous.
entry of non-Muslims into the cities of Mecca and Medina, the two holy places in Islam, is strictly prohibited
Dear me. Has the New York Times heard about such racist goings-on?
Aw, come on. I can't believe none of you have ever wanted to sneak into Mecca. The first time I saw that Muslims this way; non-Muslims that way sign I immediately wanted to visit Mecca.
We in America don't have religious id on our passports, so all it would take is a little boning up on Muslim prayers and off one could go. One could even visit an American mosque for while before going.
Would I really? Probably not now, but when I was younger, maybe. Heck, I still have the Tibetan coat I bought so that I could casually board a bus and toodle off to Tibet. I mean, it didn't work but it was worth a try.
A great adventure book is Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al Madinah and Mecca by Richard F. Burton, a sarcastic Imperial Englishman who decided it would be worthwhile to sneak into Mecca.
I will respect anybody's polite request, but I take umbrage at orders.
By the way, I guess this means that Jerusalem ("al-quds" as the muslims try to rename it) is NOT a holy place of islam, since there are only two.
Not a few Western travellers have visited Mecca. There was Burckhardt. There was Richard Burton. There was C. Snouck Hurgronje ; he wrote a book about the city. Twenty-five years ago, a then-young scholar of Islam, now much better known, boasted to J. B. Kelly that he had recently visited Mecca disguised as a Muslim (he has been silent on the matter since). One presumes there are others. But one can guess what kind of things might happen if one were to be discovered, by the Muslim authorities, or just by Muslmis in the crowd, if the news spread that "a Jew" or "a Christian" is here; get him, get him. Those worshippers would definitely not see it as a desire to satisfy curiosity about Islam, but would instead accentuate the negative, and then (music accompaniment please), pandemonium would be likely to walk upon the scene -- pandemonium, and prompt death, by stoning, or perhaps a lynch mob.
When the Mosque in Mecca was seized by Muslim fanatics unhappy about other Muslim fanatics, the all-Muslim Saudi forces tried and tried for weeks to dislodge them, and just couldn't seem to do it. Finally, it is said, French forces -- hastily reciting the Profession of Faith for the little matter at hand, went in and did what the Saudi forces were incapable of doing, and recaptured the Mosque. And upon return to France, they shed the Shehada as a snake sheds its skin.
Compare the strengst-verboten rule about non-Muslims even setting foot in Mecca and Medina (and the rule that no non-Muslims may permanently live in the entire Arabian peninsula, a Qur'anic injunction from the 7th century that is dutifully enforced -- though foreign wage-slaves, some of them perilously closee to full-fledged slaves in the treatment they receive, are permitted, for someone in Saudi Arabia has to do the work, and work is largely beneath the dignity of Saudi Arabs, save for a handful who have been to the West and gotten strange ideas), with the completely open, and respectful treatment that Muslims, and Muslim authorities, have received all over the Lands controlled (as yet) by the Infidels. Take Jerusalem, a city holiest to Jews and Christians, and far down on the Muslim list (simply ask what Muslim notables or leaders from outside the occupying power, Jordan, even visissted the Old City of Jerusalem between 1948 and 1967, and the answer is: None), and Rome, the center of Catholicism and for many others, the symbolic center of Christianity outside of Jerusalem (and a target of special Muslim ambitions because of Muhammad's "dream" that "first Constaninople, then Rome" would fall to Muslim conquerors). In Jerusalem, worshippers at the Mosque of Omar have been known to throw huge stones (brought up to the Temple Mount specially for throw-down purposes)on Jews inoffensively davening at their own services below, or routinely riot. Those in the Mosque in Rome are left entirely alone, unless that mosque happens to have an imam who preaches violence against non-Muslims, or his mosque turns out to have, as mosques in Italy so often have, to contain false passports and other papers, explosives, guns, and other things that the Italian authorities for some quaint reason believe are out of place in a house of worship. They will learn, those Italian authorities.
In due time.
We in America don't have religious id on our passports, so all it would take is a little boning up on Muslim prayers and off one could go. One could even visit an American mosque for while before going - Anne
Don't forget that as a female you would need a muslim mahram, might make the undertaking a bit trickier!
Now that we in the West have to learn about the joys of the haj and how pious muslims are, and they've allowed television cameras into Mecca, I remember seeing thousands of the faithful running widdershins around the kaaba on the news, but it cut very quickly away once the chanting started and I never heard it again.
It sent shivers up my spine. It sounded demonic.
Dear me. Has the New York Times heard about such racist goings-on?
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 14, 2006 10:00 AM
No. They keep their fingers in their ears and hands over their eyes for those kinds of announcements, just as "Islamophobia" accusers like Kenny Livingstone and Geo Galloway do.
Can we bar Muslims from New York City now?
"running widdershins around the kaaba..."
-- from a posting by Silvester above
Who is Silvia, what is she, that all the swains still adore her? And what did Bacon save for ham-handed posterity in "Sylva sylvarum"? And why did Sylvester and Tweetie finally decide to make up? And who is that boy kissing that girl with such abandon, right outside the remainder-bookstore in Piazza San Silvestro?
You've made my day, Silvester. And you know why.
All the calls for annihilating Mecca.............
it would do no good because with the muslim mentality, they'd just bang their heads on the floor in the direction of the hole in the ground.
Remind me never to give Saudi Arabia a penny of my tourist dollars. This re-emphasizes WHY an alternative to petroleum fuel should be developed PDQ (PRETTY DAMNED QUICK)!
Too bad we can't an all other influence including "influence peddling" in government, education, and bureaucracies, on which Hugh has so eloquently enlightened us.
Someone I know who works in KSA once told me that in Saudi Arabia, the only 2 reasons people are allowed to visit are business & pilgrimage. No tourism, nothing else.
Also, none of these peninsula countries allow foreigners to become citizens, unless they embrace Mohammed's death cult.
I agree w/ Zathras. Why would anyone want to go there? There are a gazillion other places all over the world that one can go instead.
Infidel Pride said
Scouting. Reconnaisance. Surveying.
Marilyn, that was good!
Only 2 "holy places in islam" ? Puleeze.. There are a gagillion "holiest places in islam" as evidenced every day by their riots, fatwahs and general disturbances.
There is no way on God's green earth I'd want to go to Mecca anyways. Here are a list of places I'd much rather see than dusty Mecca:
1. Antartica in July
2. Baffin Island in January
3. Korean Peninsula DMZ
4. Chechnya
5. Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe
6. American Mid-West during tornado season
7. Florida during hurricane season
8. Columbia
9. Mogadishu, Khartoum and Addis Ababa
10.A Black Hole
11.Mt. Everest sans oxygen
12.Gaza Strip, Israel
13.Central Park, NYC, after dark
14.The surface of the Sun
15.The Mariana trench, outside of the submarine
16.CFB Petawawa, Ontario (I've been there, it is an absolute dive of a place)
17.Anywhere near an enraged Mike Tyson
18.Anywhere near a swarm of massively pissed off killer bees.
19.Afghanistan, Pakistan or any other 'stan - alone
20.with Paris Hilton
Other than THAT, I'd be more than happy to go to Mecca for hajj.
I guess I will have to cancel my summer vacation to Medina...Dammit!
Does that mean death if we sneak in? What do they have to hide? A Muslim can visit the Vatican or the Church of the Nativity.
When are they going to build Mecca Disney, we can all ride "beheading mountain" and "It's a Muslim world". Maybe even one of those actors in the Mohammed or camel suit can come along and take a picture with you. I will call my travel agent after my return from "when hell freezes over".
Does anybody remember the repairs to Muhammad's tomb some time ago?
If I recall it correctly(big IF) they asked for a carpenter to come forward and to do the repairs. The only catch was that whoever did it would have to die as soon as he left the tomb as no one could be allowed to see the prophet's corpse/bones and live to talk about it.
In keeping with their brainwashing virtually hundreds voluntered and they reduced this to about 50 who were actually carpenters and then interviewed them intensely.
Finally they picked someone who went in and afgter about ?24 hrs he came out and stretched out his neck and then went to meet his 72 virgins. You guessed it!! They made him a martyr. You had no idea carpentry was so dangerous did you?
I know of another carpenter that was a real martyr. A man of many sorrows not many murders.
I guess I should have said, "many sorrows and no murders."
Seriously - does any one have any suggestions how a Westerner might infiltrate Mecca during the Hajj. I'm researching a possible plotline for a novel and welcome any suggestions
Just imagine the outsry if we demand the imposition of the reciprocity principle!
I used to have an almost grudging admiration for the the way mohhammedites zealously defended their religion and most holy sites. However, since I've become aware of islamic supremacy I see it for what it is, as simply the most pure expression of their insane ideology. Islam Uncensored.
I also make the connection with these 5th column's we have in our democratic countries (the Muslim community) and fully understand the threat we face.
My first post was deleted or CENSORED. I would like to know why, seeing as a US senator has already talked about threatening Mecca in retaliation to islamic stikes on the US.
It appears that not only can Muslims do whatever they like wherever they choose to do so, and Islamic sites can say what they like as can Imams in mosques everywhere in the world, but anyone here suggesting or mentioning (NOTE, NOT COMMITTING) possible retaliation is worthy of censorship.
That is exactly the sort of attitude that has placed us in this dhimi mess. I am disgusted.
Wow, Hugh, I'm blushing.
OK, Robert. Israel's "Samson Option" must contain a credible, effective deterrent. I'll leave it at that.
I am longing for the day when the whole Europe,America,Canada,and Australia bans the entry of Muslims into their lands.
When ever an oil well catches fire in Saudi Arabia,the Arabs don't know how to quinch it. They immediatly send message for an Amercian company,which specialises in such activity. That time,no other way ,and the American infedals come there,put up their camp,fry pork chops with whisky for dinner,and finish their job.
Similarly,when the huge buildings of the royal sheiks,and extensions of mosques were erected in the city of Mekka and Madina,the tender goes mostly to German,French and Amercian construction companies. That time,it is ok for the infedals to enter their holy city.Allah will turn the other way,whenever he smells bacon and sauseges!.
All the Arab sheiks send their children to USA for studies.Imams in Mecca and Madia use Western invention of lap-tops while giving byans(preachings)All Mecca mosques are illuminated with flourocent electric bulbs-thanks to infedal Sir Thoma Alva Edison.
Yesterday, in a college campus of a Canadian Univercity,one Muslim girl has supposedly complained that some student threw egg on her. There were no witnesses. But the CAIR of Canada is taking up this,and make a huge fuss for this , and it wants the Pricipal to take stern action of this 'Islamophobia'.By creating such roumers, they want the Canadian government to pass the 'Islamophobia hatred bill'.
Rafia...the oil would still be there in the sand if it was up to Muslims, They would have accused it of being Satan's blood and forbidden its use.
Let us all face it, they couldn't even shoot us if the west didn not supply the arms.
If anyone passes an Islamophobia bill then expect major bloodshed as if you are going to gaol for upsetting a Muslim then you may as well do a good job in the first place.
Yojimbo,
not nice of you to point out that non-Muslims are forbidden to go into Mecca. The way you said it someone might think that you are imputing racism --or Heaven forfend-- apartheid to the Arabs/Muslims! Don't you know that only Israel's wall [unfinished] is apartheid?