Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian libraries

Amazing. But I guess none of us should really be surprised. Can you say Dhimmi?

So, I had to fight like mad to get Lee's "To Kill a Mockingbird" into my son's school (since, you know, the content was "inappropriate for thirteen year olds" --- WHAT?), but in Canada the recommended book list can include books that suggest killing Israelis makes one "strong." Funny, I thought eating all your veggies, drinking plenty of milk, and getting lots of exercise on the playground is what helped children grow up to be strong. Silly, silly me.

Oh boy... can't wait to here what my "there will be no Dhimmis in this house -- not as long as I'm the man around here" thirteen year old thinks about this one.

Parents *know* what your kids are reading and if they bring something like this book home... go light up the people responcible.

I await what that very amusing and intelligent Canadian citizen Mark Steyn will doubtless have to say on the matter with baited breath.

Shame on Canada.

Canadians have been dogged servants to Western civilization before. Over a 100 Canadians flew in the Battle of Britain. What the heck happened to them?

Contact page for the Ontario Library Assoc:

http://www.accessola.com/site/showPage.cgi?page=contactus/index.html

Contact page for the Canadian Library Assoc:

http://www.cla.ca/top/contact.htm

Contact page, Ontario College And University Library Assoc:

http://www.accessola.com/ocula/site/showPage.cgi?page=exec.html

Let them know what you think!

So, its wrong for to call for censorship in newspapers (for example, perhaps, cartoons) but its OK to censor schoolbooks?

You can't have it both ways folks.

OT But our "ally" Turkey makes a movie (Valley of the Wolves: Iraq)

Turkish Film Breaks Records by Showing U.S. Troops as Criminals what is revealed in the movie is that Turkey had special forces troops operating in Northern Iraq prior to and during the invasion. Yet supposedly Americans "humiliated" and killed these Turkish Special Forces.

Also Iran executes two bombers, shows them on TV confessing, they admit being recruited by Arabs in Europe and one said he was helping Zarqawi, yet Al Alam TV blames the bombing in Southwest Iran on America and Britain.

That's how they report Sectarian violence, it's always the fault of the Americans and Brits.

Why our government stands for these lies is beyond me.

The Muslims do nothing but lie to the world and their people and the response of our government and Europe is to apologize, give them contracts and throw money at them.

All of that oil and money from contracts must be tempting.

Murtadd - freedom of the press involves the exchange of information among adults.

A society has a right to shield its children from indoctrination masquerading as education in schools, especially in an age group such as the one in question here. This is not a "critical thinking opportunity," as some buzzword-slinging administrator might argue.

It has children describing to an audience that will identify with the feelings of fellow children a satisfaction to be found in violence. In an age where children are often already unduly fascinated with violence, what's going to stick with them is not a presentation of "moral questions," but rather, "Killing ... will make me feel strong."

Substitute any other group for "Israelis" in that sentence, and the book would be off the shelves, with administrators roasting marshmallows over it at 451 degrees F.

Perhaps is might be better to ponder what it is that makes a child think like this? What has happened to them that a suicide bomber is a role model form them. The book is just a messenger, not a cause.

Presumably, if the author has put any balance in the book, it also portrays Jewish settler children's equally harsh views on Palestinan children? Odd that has not been highlighted in the reporting.

The thing to be condemned here is that children have been allowed to grow up in an environment which teaches them to think this way.

http://abbagav.blogspot.com/2006/03/overheard-at-funeral_03.html

For those of your needing a spot of humor in your day please check out the above link. While there also check out the blogs other offerings.

recommending reading for 8-11 year-olds

These children are not being educated, they are being indoctrinated into a leftist dogma.
8-11 year olds are a bit immature for such adult things. If they believe otherwise, perhaps they should teach these kids how to drive a car and be forced to be the only ones who share the road with them. That will put a quick end to this leftist crap

Murtadd writes:
"Presumably, if the author has put any balance in the book, it also portrays Jewish settler children's equally harsh views on Palestinan children? Odd that has not been highlighted in the reporting."

Wishful thinking on your part. In all likelihood,
there is no such reciprocal viewpoint.

And to answer the question of "why they think
that way", well, they're MUSLIMS. Why did
Nazis think the way they did.

"And to answer the question of "why they think
that way", well, they're MUSLIMS. Why did
Nazis think the way they did."

I'm not even going to dignify such simplistic, xenophobic rubbish with a response.

Ok. So far, we have One vote for kids becoming suicide bombers: murtadd

I'll offer an alternative suggestion:

Get the book out of the library.

Sit your kid down in front of the computer.

As you read the book to him, show him/her pics from sites like this one:

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/psychodeathalbum.html

And let them know: Murtadd Loves them!

I fail to see how you draw that inference from my posts. Of course, its completely wrong.

Your attempt to dismiss my view as being in support of child suicide attackers is crass, overly simplistic and avoids the issue. Why would any kid, regardless of religion, decide to blow themselves up and kill others? What has happened to them? And before someone says - 'oh, its because they are muslim' - ponder the Columbine High School massacre? White, all american teens, go on killing rampage and then kill themselves.

Suicide attack. Different modus operandi, same concept.

Try to comprehend before you condemn.

Perhaps is might be better to ponder what it is that makes a child think like this? What has happened to them that a suicide bomber is a role model form them.

There's two aspects to this, Murtadd. One is the political agenda of the book. Never mind the claims to "balance"-- it's unlikely there are any similar quotes on the part of Israelis speaking of Palestinians. As I said above, that'd get the book off the shelf faster than a John Deere tractor running amok in a botanical garden.

The other is called "imitatable acts." In the US and Canada, that's more my concern than the literal appearance of the suicide bomber as a role model, since fewer children here are exposed to the Quran, Hadiths, and radical imams for a "moral" compass.

You're not around small children much, are you? Self-control and parental oversight is at an all-time low, at the same time that many are inordinately fascinated with violence and killing, either from what they see on tv and in movies, or what they see in their homes and neighborhoods. I teach Sunday school to 7 and 8 year-olds; what comes out of their mouths before and after class can be highly disturbing in that regard.

The last thing we should want to inject into our metal detector-furnished schools is the notion that violence solves problems and makes one feel better.

Murtadd -

We don't do islam here.

Canadians have been dogged servants to Western civilization before. Over a 100 Canadians flew in the Battle of Britain. What the heck happened to them?

my uncle faught in WW2, and he joined was not conscripted. he went behind enemy lines, and was part the of Fr.Cdn Vandooz. they did so much damage to Nazis, that Hitler complianed to the Red Cross!
so what happend to the memory of these valiant troops! freaken PC environment, dumbing down education.. and love and peace activists, brainless twits.. !

Suicide attack. Different modus operandi, same concept.

Try to comprehend before you condemn.
Posted by: Murtadd [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 3, 2006 11:46 AM

oh Murturdd you are a sick individual..suicide bombers are aided by twisted islamofacists who send over zombie brain dead muslims to do their dirt work! they are cowards. and take life from civilians.. like a famous Israeli Prime Minister once said.. "they have to love their children more than they hate us"..

I'd like to interject that we are seeing in Palestinian society (such as it is) a culture where killing Israelis is the most noble act one can do. Mothers bare children for the sole purpose for them to become bomb carriers. Palestinian schools teach their children to hate Jews in general, and Israelis in particular. Palestinian print and television media constantly spread the most vile propaganda to sow hate and the desire to kill.

You cannot tell a story objectively within a vacuum. You cannot quote these children regarding their viewpoint without explaining what these children are being indoctrinated with 24/7.

Is it any different for a child who is brought up in a Ku Klux Klan environment, they are told that "niggers" are simply apes, and worse, and that "the only good 'nigger' is a dead 'nigger'?" You can interview one of these children and get the same sort of responses about what they think about black people, or from a child who is taught to hate whites. Just replace Palestinian and Israeli with Black and White.

Simply sick.

Look how they would run away if cartoons of Muhammad were involved!

Is Canada the most dhmii nation on earth?

probably

I think the real point is this:

What good will it do to dump the World's problems, with all its complexities and abysmal hatreds, onto the laps of 8-11 year old Canadian children?
What on earth can one hope to accomplish from that? What kind of meaningful imput can these children give? I read the reviews from Murtadd posts and I am not convinced that they gained anything, other than to say "I'm glad that's not me"

One can only hope that Canadian children when they (sooner or later) are forced to read this putrid filth can see through it and realize they are being manipulated to continue Islam's evil tradition of legalized murder. I think most westerners have been socialized sufficiently (even if just barely) to understand the nature of Islam and react against it and in favor of human life. At least I HOPE...

Meanwhile, shame on Canada!!!!!!!

I think I understand what Murtadd is trying to say: that the book has negative Israeli views on Palestinians, as much as it has Palestinians boasting about suicide bombings. I'm not sure if one appeared more than the other, but it's moot in my view.

This is because such point-counterpoint debate is probably better off in High School or later, when the students can engage in more critical thinking for themselves. A better curriculum for 8-11 is the history of Western Civilization (since Canada is part of the West); when this foundation is built up, then the more cerebral topics like this book would be appropriate.

In other words, save it for later, when the students value their own civilization enough to put it in context.

For the record, youth violent crime overall is at its lowest point in decades (cussing in the classroom being another point entirely). I don't think we need to worry about 11 year olds blowing themselves up as much as ***we need to worry about them being complacent and supportive of those who do such things.***

Also if Murtadd's point is that this book should draw attention to the factors and environment that turn people into suicide bombers, which I agree is a worth-while endeavor, then the book should be for adults and at the adult level. Don't expect me to believe that 8-11 year old are ready for psycho-analytical abstractions and can dealve into the "motivations" of the book’s characters for a greater understanding to the mentality of a sucide bomber and maintain a proper “analytical distance”.

Pull the damn book!

Shinoliite, I think you said it all. (Censorship of newspapers and childrens books.) The obvious difference being adults and children. By the by, I won't destroy property, slaughter or mame anyone over this childrens book. The difference between adults and children.

Akhetnu:

The book you are obliquely and sneakily defending is the perfect example of a crime known as SEDITION! Students should be discussing THAT especially since it is a crime that is being perpetrated literally right under their very noses!!

No one should be reading books exhorting them to commit (or even justify) violent acts!

Here's a novel idea for you: try searching for non-violent means to end conflicts such as the Arab-Israel conflict! THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED IN SCHOOLS. Unless of course Muslims really dont't want peace, just pieces of dead bodies scattered about. In which you're off to a flying and brilliant start with books like this one!!

Murtadd

I think you are missing the whole point.

These are 8-11 year old kids way too immature to even begin to understand something that requires a long list of historical facts that most educated adults cant seem to navigate. It doesn't matter how balanced or unbalanced the book is.

"Why do they think that way", because they have been indoctrinated into this illogical dogma from birth. So in essence, they are not thinking, they are just responding in accordance to their instructions.

Murtadd writes:
"I'm not even going to dignify such simplistic, xenophobic rubbish with a response."

That IS a response, although a rather idiotic one.

As to the premise that Islam is strikingly similar to Nazism, with more than enough antisemitism to
make my statement accurate, you need only read what Muslims themselves write, or see some of the
pictures of Muslims protesting the cartoons, or
read the Iranian premere's comments, or ...

I have to say, you come off as a poseur. You act
like you have the intellectual high ground, but
rather than explore the perceived connection between Nazism and Islam, you just resort to
idiotic insults. The argument that Islam is
Nazi like is easy to make, only a PC fool could
ignore the evidence.

You are correct though, that the book in question
is more balanced than one would expect, so I'll
not claim it isn't. The facts are in.

"I'm not sick. I just happen to think a bit more laterally than some."

And the poster dances a lateral arabesque better than anyone else here... The idea of comparing those rare heinous outbursts by "White, all american teens, go on killing rampage and then kill themselves" to the endless thousands and THOUSANDS of "suicide" operations celebrated by the Palestinians is ludicrous.

The malignant anti-American cynicism couldn't be clearer -- describing such anomalous murderers as "White, all american teens" is the tip off... This person is just another vile anti-American bigot -- another moral relativist who will stop at nothing to equate the divert the discussion from the barbarity of Islam and attempt to establish false parallels between the culturally sanctioned, culturally celebrated death fest of "suicide operations" in Muslim nations across the globe with the far less frequent and murky "terrorist" operations of other cultures such as that of the "Tamil Tigers" in Sri Lanka...

Shame on Canada! And shame on this morally bankrupt relativist and terror apologising anti-American bigot! (And all of the others of his filthy ilk...)

I should have added the following challenge to the fantasist filth poster above who equated Columbine or any other incident to those of the Palestinians.

Name ONE, and only ONE incident involving such an murder where the parents celebrated the actions of their deranged child in these murders -- name ONE -- I only ask for ONE where that misguided and deranged child was encouraged to conduct the massacre at his local church, or who was raised from his earliest childhood to have such anti-human hatred nurtured in his heart by his parents or his community or his religious leaders, and I'll eat a HAT. I would also apologize abjectly to that fantasist filth for getting it so wrong -- I only ask for ONE example, since the vile poster insisted on suggesting that there is a parallelism between the two actions -- those of the heinous murderers who shoot in their school and the murderous rampages of "disaffected Palestinian youth"

You can't because none exists -- you can't because there is NO PARALLELISM -- there is NO COMPARISON -- and to maintain such is a gargantuan lie and distortion -- One which makes your opinions and "contributions" suspect to the highest degree -- and discredits everything you wrote above.

This is disgusting. What's next? Why not have them strap on suicide bombing outfits for the full learning experience? Jackasses!

Murtadd, there is no equivalency between a book directed at young kids that glorifies terrorism and a cartoon in the newspaper that criticizes terrorism.

Gary.

thanks for the links. They'll be hearing from me and plenty of others.

...just when I think the world cannot get any more absurd...oh boy!

What a bordello this country has turned out to be.

Dear "Murtrd,"

Re. your remarks about "Israeli settlers' mentality towards Arabs," ... it is illegal to publicly state or write anything against Arabs or Islam under Israel's laws against racist incitement. Israeli Jews have been prosecuted for publicly stating such things.

The Israeli school system has mandated a curriculum aimed at combatting "intolerance" and negative statements against Arabs or Muslims have been eliminated from texts.

As regards the "settlers," I met many and have not found any in favor of killing Arabs.

Next time you shoot your mouth off, please take the time to learn the facts and not creat a straw man such as "Jewish hate of Arabs and Muslims" to defend Arab and Muslim racism and anti-Semitism.

DesertDawgN29Palms

The problem with the schools is that Middle Eastern reality, not merely the Arab Jihad against Israel, but what happens to Copts and Maronites and black Africans in the southern Sudan (or non-Arab blacks in Darfur) cannot be discussed given the climate of accomodation, denial, and fear.

Thereforee, effort must be made by parents and others outside of school to immunize one's own children from propaganda, including that which seeks "the real killer" everywhere but with the tenets of Islam, even if this requires one to school them early to recognize taqiyya-and-tu-quoque arguments, including selective quotation -(the kind that both Bush and Boubakeur have indulged in, the first perhaps unwittingly the second entirely wittingly), and to know things about Qur'an and Hadith and the details of the life of Muhammad, that they should learn, just as Muslim children learn them -- but with quite a different attitude, and aim, in mind. Same texts, same quotations, same biographial details -- but quite a different mental reception.

Speechless. As a Canadian, I just.....I shake my head at the obvious insanity that has taken hold in my country.

for those of you who say , shame on you Canada, dont put the entire country including me.. as l stand on the right of most here! you want to know..what Carter, Gore, Clinton... reasons why 9-11, yeah it was your fault in not so many words! did you hear about the stupid teacher in colorado, bashing the US, Bush, and all things in the US.. so a bunch of stupid librarians, government lackeys..brainless twits accept this book! the librarians had a big row over smut in their libraries.. would not stop kids from getting the books, computer..If the real media would go out and interview ordianry Cdns they would be appalled at this book!

Poor Murtadd/Muhaha; pray he doesn't have any children; following his logic above, he'd let his kids stuff themselves with chocolate and candy as a regular diet--and have them go into diabetic coma--rather than give them veggies.

Supid is as stupid does.

Lulu

Not to worry, here in the US I believe most children in public schools are exposed to books like “Johnny has two dads” and “Jenny has two moms” as part of the disgusting leftist dogma masquerading it as sex education, when they are just to young to be educated, but the perfect age to be indoctrinated.

This post is directed towards all of the knee-jerkl Ameirica bashing posters who pollute this site with such regularity:

"...for those of you who say , shame on you Canada, dont put the entire country including me.. as l stand on the right of most here! you want to know..what Carter, Gore, Clinton... " blah blah blah...

Well now. That diatribe will go a long way towards getting this execrable book out of your libraries, won't it Lulu? Admit your mistakes before it's too late. Stop projecting your failures onto America -- or diverting yourselves from the urgent task at hand --

For so long certain arrogant Canadians and glib Europeans have felt completely free and safe to utter every imaginable anti-American slur without the slightest repercussions... For years I've heard them and simply shaken my head, wondering why some of you all hate us so...

Now I'm beginning to understand -- You were blaming all of your failures on America, projecting your weaknesses and shortcomings onto America, and pretending you had nothing to fix, that nothing was collapsing, that everything was fine in your domain, and that all that was wrong was someone else's fault... somehow the American superpower's fault...

For so long I'm sure this was balm to your malignant hearts, your impotent hearts... This allowed you to continue in your fantasist fugues -- you could ignore the fact that your leftist weaknesses and your pseudo-liberal shortcomings and your lack of security and your lack of compass and your lack of credible defense was just fine, that there was no looming danger, that the trouble was "over there" in that cartoon land -- that planetary buggaboo -- that insensate giant America...

You didn't notice that the stench of your collapsing cultures was luring the predators of Islam to your shores, that the falseness of your hearts and of your policies was balm to the malignant hearts of the Islamic vultures who have now descended upon you...

Outbursts like the one above just won't cut it anymore. How is THAT going to address the execrable presence of this "book" in your Libraries? It's truly amazing to see how thin the skins are of those who have called names for so long, of those who would prefer to lambast the USA in the face of all the Muslims horrors they've invited into Canada and Europe... Don't just sit there in impotent rage. Don't be like the Muslims -- don't blame all your problems on the USA, or deflect blame onto us for something that is a pure Canadian act of insanity! Do something REAL about it! Write a letter. Email. Make a phone call.

Don't bring up those sad sacks "Carter, Gore, Clinton..." It's useless blather, and probably going to make some of your natural allies pissed right back at you. I deplore "Carter, Gore, Clinton"... But ya know what Lulu? I deplore smug Canadians and Europeans blaming their fuck-ups on America even more!

I honestly believe that this board is home to too many fanatics who are "hell-bent" to fight, even with people that agree with them, that they don't really READ the posts of others.

There are too many lunatics here.

this place is no "marble-walled chamber of discussion"

It is a "bowling-alley of singular opinion"

"...you want to know..what Carter, Gore, Clinton... reasons why 9-11, yeah it was your fault in not so many words!"

Beav -- I'm not sure whom you're labelling "lunatics" here -- does blaming 9/11 on America count for lunacy? Just wondering.

I read it, along with the other posts by this poster and had no problem until Lulu uttered this gem. If this is what this poster believes, despite her various statements above, then this poster doesn't "agree" with me, and i suspect most readers here, except for the most zany and insane, don't agree with here either. How 'bout you? You think "it was [our] fault in not so many words"?

(Or didn't you READ the post of others?)

I leave the "many words" to you, you suffer from verbal diarrhea. If you look at the posts, you will see that many people say "Shame on Canada", as if it is the country's fault and by extension..all of the people in it, that this stupid book is recommended reading. She, a CanadianI assume, did not care for these sweeping generalizations at the hands of many poster's here, and rightfully so. To see such idiot behavior reminds me of Muslims, remember, who's blame was given to ALL of Denmark and Christiandom for the acts of a single newspaper. You don't convince sober people of your cause by acting "more nutty than Muslims"

And to be fair she was responding to this she did not initiate the aggression. jsla, all people love their country.

Nice evasion.

So I guess you're part of the zany and insane? Thanks for making that clear!

you're so stupid!

(and equating "Shame on Canada" for an act of sheer lunacy with "aggression" -- what weeds are you smoking?)

(Ouch! What a wicked reposte!)

beav_is a butthead. I am canadian and it is Canada's fault for what is happening. I dont think shame on Canada is a sweeping statement. All Canadians...etc. is a sweeping statement. The government can be it at the municipal, provincial, or federal level has a responsibility to stop this kind of crap from being forced onto kids.

of course it is a sweeping generalization, and most other posters here support LULU just look and see

Indeed pissedoffcanadian -- and I was careful to address my post "towards all of the knee-jerkl (sic) Ameirica (sic) bashing posters who pollute this site with such regularity"

and to that list of pollution we can apparently add "the beav," who clumsily evaded my queries, and could only come back with "you're so stupid!" What a delightful exchange, though.

my point is that you and many others seek to degenerate this board into a personal sectarian or political stage. There is only ONE enemy here ISLAM and LuLu is on our side

"towards all of the knee-jerkl (sic) Ameirica (sic) bashing posters who pollute this site with such regularity"
that's exactly what I'm talking about

and what is you claim that I evaded,
your misunderstanding of mine and other people's words?

Before you said it was a nice evasion, now you say it is clumsy

What are you Muslim?

Or just stupid, as I have said before,

goodnight boys

Agree with "...you want to know..what Carter, Gore, Clinton... reasons why 9-11, yeah it was your fault in not so many words!"

???

I doubt it... I doubt it completely....

Only you...

Or didn't you READ the post of others, as you accused me of? Clearly you did not read her post, nor comprehend my own.

Had a little too much to drink tonight? I thought so.

Wait a minute!! The problem here is not what any individual on this site is saying, inferring or deducing. The single most important issue is the fact that there are people in various levels of governments, administrations, and committies that have absolutely NO IDEA of the reppercussions of their "pollitically correct" policies, regulations, and opinions have. I am in full agreement that nothing should ever be subjected to censure by any member of a governing body, however, a little common sense would go a long way in this case. Children at this age are very impressionable, innocent and not mature enough to comprehend what they are absorbing. A book of this sort would certainable be more appropriate, as stated by another poster, in a high school setting, where intelligent debate and discussion could be had by all. And please, not all Canadians are bleeding heart left leaning liberals. We do act accordingly at times, we've just elected a right of center conservative government!!

I am in a agreement with Jasmine. Regardless of whether the book is taught in elementary schools (I don't think it should; there are probably better books out there on the subject), children of any age can just go to their local bookstore and buy it anyway. There is also nothing to prevent the information found in this book from coming to them through other sources, such as children of muslim parents, or commentators.

If Canadian children are taught critical thinking, and their own culture at an early age, they will value both. Then sentiments in a book such as this one will not indocrinate them at all when and if they do come up. In fact, they will find such statments to be rightly abhorrent, and reject them.

Another interesting factor is the judgement a book places on the content. For example, this book does not seem to condemn the statments made by the Palestinians within. A better book to use in the early school cirriculum, if this topic is even appropriate, would be one where such statments are accompanied with appropriate judgement about how and why such attitudes espoused by the suicide bombers are wrong. If this particular book is allowed in high schools, the teacher should do it.

As a teen myself, I don't know of anyone in my local high school(s) who wouldn't condemn the violent anti-Israeli attitudes contained in this book. Some of my peers may sympathize with the Paelstinian situation, even they would never be accepting of suicide bombing. The exception are the muslims, who are very few in my area, and get their attitudes at home.

Do these schools want young kids- (way too young to understand any of the moral dilemmas involved in such a nihilistic and sadistic desire)- to learn that it is okay to kill people at random on order to feel "strong?

Poor choice.

You erode the opening blossom of the soul with this bile.

A developing spirit that has no strength yet to counterbalance this dismal propagandistic venom.

I'd advise the Canadian parents involved to pull their kids out of such a coyly diseased curriculum -in outraged protest- until the educators come to their senses.

If this were a true story about the children of early Canadian settlers smugly prattling about the way killing American Indians made them "feel strong", how long do you think that book would it last on the p.c. middle school shelves?

(And I guarantee you can find late 18th and early 19th century Canadian diaries and printed articles that would be able frame just such a story exactly.)

But some people are allowed to be psychopaths in the modern p.c. mindset, because they are the "forever guiltless" "noble victims".

What's next?

Muslims from Denmark added to the children's textbooks saying how "proud" it made them feel to gang rape the daughter of a Danish cartoonist?

Canadian educators, your proctologist is calling.

South of line
Forty-nine
We've got them too,
That bugaboo,
Known as multi-
Cultie
Against the West
And quite a pest.

JSLA, we have plenty of pseudo-multiculturalists (actually leftist monoculturalists) of our own down here in the States to join with the America-bashers in Europe anc Canada.

Tell ya what, Pissedoff. Meet me at Niagara Falls some time and we'll have a few Tuborgs to cry into.

Murtadd:

If you are not a Muslim, then you are leftist Muslim sympathizer and with either case, your words are meaningless for Muslims and Muslim sympathizers lie about everything.

How do you tell when a Muslim is lying? Whenever a Muslim speaks.

Only lies and filth can come out of a Muslim's mouth for their souls are corrupted by following the corrupt souled Mohammed who was a pedophile and child rapist.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice.

I am with those against the creeping Islamic threat and the barbarity of the majority of modern Islam and this book situation is atrocious!

BUT...I was dismayed to see some remarks on here concerning books like 'raised by two dads' etc.

For people so set on fighting Religious bullshit, such remarks STINK of the kind of Catholic, Baptist homophobic bullshit that Islam also shares!

Islamic extremists and their support by so called Islamic 'moderates' (there are some genuine ones, but they are indeed rare) cause direct harm (often physical harm of course) to our societies...Being gay does not!
Grow up!

Islam likes to execute gays, so did the Nazis...hardly 2 bedfellows ANY of you on here should want to have.

ALL, organised, man made religions, and all their prejudiced backwards bullshit, are mostly dangerous (with Islam being the biggest threat at the moment) and should die out. And I hope such crass (and plainly deluded) prejudices that they foster dies out too.

Just to clarify....I don't want to spend time in the company of Chrsitian nutters anymore than I want to spend time in the company of Islamic nutters (even if they are worse as a whole).

DaveyFreak:

I would agree with you wholeheartedly (Muslims think nothing of indocrinating their kids that gays are evil), but you're a bit off topic. We are not here becuase we are in favor or against gay rights issues.

We are here because we see Islamic jihad as a threat to our way of life (and no one here thinks gays should be put to death like in Saudi Arabia). In fact, on www.dhimmiwatch.org is a review of an anti-Islamc Jihad book written by a neoconservative, who simply happens to be gay himself.

So let's steer back onto the topic of this Canadian book, assuming we have not beaten it to death already! (I think we have...)

ALL, organised, man made religions, and all their prejudiced backwards bullshit, are mostly dangerous (with Islam being the biggest threat at the moment) and should die out. And I hope such crass (and plainly deluded) prejudices that they foster dies out too.
Posted by: DaveyFreak
___

DaveyFreak:

Grow up and pull your head out of your nether regions.

The Judeo-Christianity beliefs are the basic building blocks of the freedoms in American and the direct result of the creation of America for religious freedom that was not available in England 300 years ago.

Because of the God led Christians that wrote our Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the God led Christians that fought to make America free, you now have the right to believe as you wish and to live as you wish. You do not have the right to condemn me as a Christian for I have not condemned you unless you are a Muslim that wish to destroy all that I believe in.

Do not forget, Islam intends on destroying all freedoms and enslaving the world.

Do you want to live in Christian America or under Islamic rule??

The choice is yours to make:
Fight Islam with the Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists, Hindus, nonbelievers and the peaceful religions of the world
or
become a Muslim, a Muslim slave or dead.

I choose freedom at any cost and welcome you in the fight to save America and the world from dominance by Islam.

Prepare, be armed be ready.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice.

Oh! come-on, this is canada the nothing nation with something to prove. No! they do not just know what it is they are going to prove but they are going to do it anyhow. In other words if they had twice as many brains as they now have they would be bloody half-wits. num7bat

A bit off topic...but just because the founding fathers were Christian (as most people of the time were), it does not mean that Christian theology and the Bible alone inspired American democracy and the Bill of Rights.

The idea of representative democracy, states rights, things like freedom of the press and religion, and rights against search and siezure...the Bible does not really speak of those issues one way or another. One can believe that these ideals are divinely ordained by the Judeo-Christian god, of course. Although on the flip side, the divine right of kings in an absolute monarchy was also defended by medieval Christians along religious lines.

However, the Bible is overall a religious book, not a political one. This is in marked contrast to Islam(e), which prescribes governmental and economic rules for all time, and hence prevents it from being flexible and adapting to a pluralistic society such as ours.

I see American freedom as the culmination of Western values, not just Judeo-Christianity (which of course did play its own part). Democracy and the rebublic have ther genesis in Greece and Rome, and the ideals of absolute, divine-commanded morality were enshrined not just in Judeo-Christianity, but also as far back as Harumnabbi in Sumeria and Ma'at in ancient Egypt. Even the ancient philosopher Kagemni cajoled people to treat the king and beggar as ultimate equals.

Hence, the fight against the Jihad of Islam is not just for the survival of Christianity, but for the entire soul and legacy of our Western Civilization itself.

Hence, the fight against the Jihad of Islam is not just for the survival of Christianity, but for the entire soul and legacy of our Western Civilization itself.
Posted by: Akhetnu
___

Akhetnu,

I didn't state that the fight was just for the survival of Christianity but

" The choice is yours to make:
Fight Islam with the Christians, Jews, agnostics, atheists, Hindus, nonbelievers and the peaceful religions of the world
or
become a Muslim, a Muslim slave or dead.

I choose freedom at any cost and welcome you in the fight to save America and the world from dominance by Islam.”
Posted by The Texican.
___

I see American freedom as the culmination of Western values, not just Judeo-Christianity (which of course did play its own part). Democracy and the rebublic have ther genesis in Greece and Rome, and the ideals of absolute, divine-commanded morality were enshrined not just in Judeo-Christianity, but also as far back as Harumnabbi in Sumeria and Ma'at in ancient Egypt. Even the ancient philosopher Kagemni cajoled people to treat the king and beggar as ultimate equals.
Posted by: Akhetnu
___

Akhetun:

As to the formation of America, you need to reread American history. The majority of those that came to America came for religious freedom and the freedom to speak and print without oppression that they endured under the English and European monarchies.

The idea of democracy was started by Greece but was developed and nurtured and has grown due to the God led Christians that formed America and gave America life.

For exciting reading, read the bios on the founding fathers and see what God led Christians that they were.

As long as we have God in our country and we help Israel and the Jewish nation, America will remain strong, but our right of religious freedom is being impacted upon by the leftist liberals.

The Bill of Rights does not state "separation of church and state", but state:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Our founding fathers made the right of freedom of religion the FIRST SIXTEEN WORDS OF THE FIRST AMMENDMENT OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN CONSTUCTION.

This is undeniable proof that our founding fathers showed the importance of religion in America and in the American government……………

As a Christian, I believe in the right of each person to believe or not believe as they wish.

___

ALL, organised, man made religions, and all their prejudiced backwards bullshit, are mostly dangerous (with Islam being the biggest threat at the moment) and should die out. And I hope such crass (and plainly deluded) prejudices that they foster dies out too.
Posted by: DaveyFreak
___

DaveryFreak:

I and most other Christians will no longer go silently into the night when some brainwashed leftist liberal attacks our God, our country or our religion.

Islam and any others that wish to destroy my religion or country are in for a jolt for Christians are learning to be like the Jews, we are no longer going to be silent or peaceful.

The war is with Islam and the brainwashed leftist liberals like DaveyFreak can move to the Middle East and see what it really means to live in an oppressive society.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice.

Everyone: let's not bring the tone of this board down to insults and abuse. Remember there is no 'edit' function, one can easily type something that in retrospect isn't quite what one wanted to say. Also: solidarity.

Davey: I agree too. 'Two dads' aren't going to hurt me - Islamism is. Many of my friends are gay. Remember, besides some fundametalist Christians on this board, those of us with a more liberal world view are also here. It was interesting that when the cartoon issue hit NZ, the church's only comment was "oh, naughty editors! Hey, how about giving us more respect too, by not showing the 'bleeding Mary' Southpark episode".

Re the ruling on the dagger: ""A total prohibition against wearing a kirpan to school undermines the value of this religious symbol and sends students the message that some religious practices do not merit the same protection as others," Justice Louise Charron wrote."

Too right: it's time we told our governments that indeed, some religious practices do NOT merit the same protection as others. Practices that hurt others, threaten public safety or restrict others' freedom.

Oh boy... can't wait to here what my "there will be no Dhimmis in this house -- not as long as I'm the man around here" thirteen year old thinks about this one."

Posted by: quietwatcher at March 3, 2006 10:20 AM

Quietwatcher,

Glad to hear your son is informed. As Hugh says, we need to innoculate children against the pro-Islamist propaganda. By the time the youngsters of today are adults, Islam may be a bigger problem than it is now.

Akhetnu,

I agree that such a book, including presentation of a suicide bomber's views, should not be presented to such young readers (8-11 age range). Should it be presented to teens in high school, as you suggest? I have no problem whether the topic is discussed--children see and hear about suicide bombers in the news--but I think the key issue is whether it is presented and discussed in a fair way. Not having read the book myself, it's difficult to say whether the book overall gives a fair presentation and critical commentary. But, based on what we know about what's in the book, the key question is this: Is it appropriate to present to 8-11 yr old children this Palestinian suicide bomber's views? I think most of us agree that it is not appropriate to present this kind of account to children. Children need to be told the basics about why it is wrong. They also need to be told that they themselves could be the victim of an Islamic suicide bomber (in a Canadian city); they need to be told there were Canadians and children, just like them, killed by suicide bombers on 9/11. They should not be terrorized but they should also not be cajoled into identification with suicide bombers on the other hand. This is important for the Muslim children in the class as well: The school should not be perceived as providing extra endorsement or validation for the suicide attacks. Suicide bombing is in part of a powerful propaganda technique to win sympathy for the cause of individuals who are, frankly, murderers, and whose group's goal is the extermination of the Israeli Jews (e.g., see Hamas charter).

Here are examples from the authentic Islamic Hadith

Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177.
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

The Koran is roughly consistent with the above, though it allows for a dhimmitude option (i.e., Jews are to be subjugated under Muslim rule and taxed, punished, and burdened in various discriminatory ways). Christians and Jews who fail to convert to Islam:

9:29: “Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians] as believe not in Allah nor the Last day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay tribute readily, being brought low...”

And Koran verses 9:33, 61:9, and 48:28 make it clear that Islam's goal is to conquer all religions in the whole world, destroy all disbelief (2:193, 8:39), and to continue in actions toward these goals until the Last Day 48:21. (Note: Tafsir of these verses is necessary to get the more exact meaning of the words).

And, speaking of suicide bombing, check out these links on whether these suicidal attacks are Islamically approved:

I have written some comments on suicide bombing in Islam, here
http://islamwatch.forumup.in/about106-0.html

This follows Mohammad Asghar’s article, which refutes an Islamic apologist
http://www.islam-watch.org/MAsghar/SuicideBombInIslam.htm

Regarding the issue of the founding fathers' religious beliefs (off-topic, but raised in above posts with I believe some incorrect information. I post this purely as a corrective for the above),

At least the first four presidents, were not Christians. Washington was probably a deist, but that's not a Christian. The other 3 were either atheists, agnostics, or weak deists at best.

Notes and Quotes on the founding fathers of the US.

George Washington

-never professed a belief in the Judeo-Christian revealed God, nor of Jesus Christ. He had “heretical” books in his library. He was asked many times to give his religious affiliation, but he dodged the question. (This evasiveness basically rules out Christianity. If he was a Christian, he certainly wouldn’t be shy about saying so, and at the time he had no reason for being shy about it if he was in fact a Christian). Some in his family were Deists, as was not uncommon at the time among the well-educated. His own pastor gave the opinion that Washington was a Deist. (Note that being a deist entails denying the validity of revealed religion, which is what Judeo-Christianity is. In deism, God is a matter of personal reflection and contemplation, and is a subject that is open to rational inquiry). This is for all practical purposes an atheist view, as far as most Christians would be concerned.

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”
-John Adams, 2nd U.S. President.

“Religions are all alike—founded upon fables and mythologies.”
-Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President.

“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
-James Madison, 4th US President.

Thomas Jefferson again: “My opinion is that there never would have been an infidel if there had never been a priest.”

profitsbeard, great post.

Where are the Islamic apologists now?

As I read Robert's initial excerpts I was thinking, Why aren't the Islamic apologists coming out to condemn this book's presentation as a distortion of Islam? They've been telling us all along that suicide bombers don't go to Paradise for killing civilians. Why does this sympathetic portrayal of a Palestinian suicide bomber's Islamic rationalizations not rouse the Muslim spokesmen to protest?

Regarding the above debates viz Canada and the U.S.:

...The problem is not "Canada," but it is Canada's problem, and therefore Canadians' responsibility to solve it. This sort of thing, with an Islamically-sympathetic portrayal of a terrorist in a school book, could have happened anywhere in the west. The problem arises due to certain negative multi-culturalist, moral relativist, anti-Western influences in our societies.

"...what it is that makes a child think like this? What has happened to them that a suicide bomber is a role model form them. The book is just a messenger, not a cause..."

From a Mohammedan poster (way) above.

Islam. Islam happened upon them.

All the dreck and the perversion of Islam, where babies suck the hatred with the mothers milk, that is what's creepin' into our classrooms, brought into infidel countries on the backs of infil-traitors, those who adhere to the 'faith' and come 'to dominate and not be dominated'.

The book a 'messenger, not a cause?' What rubbish. Like Mo was just a 'messenger?' These messengers are bad news, just like certain negative multi-culturalist, moral relativist, anti-Western influences in our societies. (As Archi above points out so very correctly!)

No. We have a right to a how and what our children are taught. We have enough crackpot teachers, but we don't need to promote perversion in the school-system. Quite the opposite!

Everyone should go up to Gary's response and go to the websites he suggested and email this story and your objection to having such things in a library for children. These muslims have been stopped before in Canada, we must stop them again. Lets go guys, even if you don't live there, email them.

I'm sorry but this IS to do with this site!

Why are Bible thumping EXTREMISTS like 'The Texican' a welcome addition to the fight against Islam?

Fact: He is a Christian extremist and is no better than an Islamic extremist.
He's a racist, prejudiced, homophobe and all round NUTTER.

He even says, even though i have EXPLICITLY posted my anti-Islam stance, that I should go to The Middle East!
Why? Because I hate Islam? Does that make sense?

I am against Islam just as I am against any organised, man-made religion with not a jot of proof to it's validity.
It's just that Islam happens to be the one that is the greatest threat now.

Would I like to live in a piece of shit Christian extremist country or a piece of shit Islamic one??
A Christian one. Yes.
But I would rather live in neither!!
And if it is a Christian one I wuld hope it would not be the kind of hardline Christian one 'The Texican' would approve of

Sorry folks, but idiot fanatics like 'The Texican' are just the kind of people that do organisations like 'Jihad Watch' no good!

I don't fight against the evil of Islam by the side of grotesque Bible thumpers like 'The Texican', who is just another deluded religious freak...I choose to fight next to people who DON'T want to replace one hateful, prejudiced, sexist, homophobic, oppressive religion with another one under a different name.

People like 'The Texican' are a PR nightmare for places like 'Jihad Watch'.

I loathe Islam as much as anyone on here...and I don't have to be a fanatic Christian like 'The Texican' to do it!
NO ONE does. Remember that.

Texican:

Don't worry; I don't disagree that many of the founding fathers were Christian, nor do I have any problem with Christianity itself, and nor do I disagree that religion is a powerful force for good. As a religious person myself, I see the power and inspiration of faith and morality in my life and those of others. If you dont believe me, see my comments to DaveFreak below ;)

However, I must point out that some of the founding fathers were NOT Christian (see above quotes cited by Archimedes). But they often still believed in a higher power, and they and their Christian counterparts all believed in freedom and democracy. I am NOT trying to diminish the role of Christians in our history, just pointing out that neither Christians nor Christianity were solely responsible for our American values.

Just because some of the founding fathers had devout faith in the Christian God does not mean said God, Bible, or Christianity directly inspired them to create (or refine existing concepts of) democracy and freedom. Sure they valued these things, and would naturally believe that their God, who is presumed to be benevolent, valued them too. The desire of freedom is a natural longing of all humans, so anyone who believes in any deity can eventually assume that their deity made it that way. But that is a matter of faith and belief, one that was not unique to the founding fathers, and one that can be held by someone of many other religions (except apparently our favorite religion of pieces).

The Bible is devoid of politics, apart from Jesus' command to render unto ceasar, or the Old Testament, which depicts a theological monarchy anyway. Some have said that Jesus' desire to save all people shows an example of equality, but that spiritual openness is a far cry from actual American political parity. In fact, christian europe of the middle ages and rennaisance was still largely ruled by feudalism or merchant-kings. While Aquinas did speak of governments by the people and for the people, other theologians of his time argued for the divine right of kings with equal vigor. I suppose you can get either out of it.

Archimedes:

I agree with what you say; the placement of a book of nonfiction in school should be judged on its objectivity, the maturity of the students, and their existing base of morality. I think 8-11 is a little young for this book.

DaveyFreak:

You really do need to calm down. Texican and I may differ on religious views and such, but we both agree on the threat that Islam poses. That is why we are here, and that is why I am cringing as we veer off topic. Just because Islam may be dangerous does not mean we have to fall back on the fallacy of religion being some deceptive evil opiate of the masses and condemn perfectly good faiths. Such sweeping statments are of no value.

This is for JSLA and his "special friend" pissed-on Canadian I had to leave on a call last night,

Go to David’s Midienkritik and you will see a picture of an Iraqi prisoner being tortured in Abu Graib prison. The picture is actually the cover of a very popular German magazine called Der Spiegel. Even though the pictures are 3 years old, and the perpetrators are now sitting in prison, this recent issue of Der Speigel proclaims “America’s Shame”, right on the cover, ...not the criminals and torturers shame... but America’s Shame, and that includes all of us, me and you. Now this is certainly unfair, it is a generalization of Americans (Even if Pissed-on Canadian doesn’t understand its meaning), and it makes me mad every time I see it on that site, even though David’s Midienkritik is a decidely pro-American site. They show the picture to demonstrate how unfair and anti-American, Der Spiegel is.

Yesterday a thread began about some Canadian association of librarians that recommended a stupid book to 8-11 year olds that seeks sympathy for suicide bombers. In the blog section, one could easily find the ridiculous phrase “Shame on Canada”, not once, not twice, but no less than three times. This is also a generalization (Areyou paying attention, Piss-mop?) and terribly unfair.

If you go to a Canadian-run blog, No Dhimmitude! is a good one, you will see many of the same types of stories that run on Jihad Watch. For example: A Califorinia school district rules that the public schools in that district must designate special rooms as “Muslim prayer rooms” one for males and one for females, even though Christian students are strictly forbidden to even pray during school hours, much less get a private room to do so. Now, when you go to the blog section of that story you will, of course, find a lot of opinions, but what you will NOT see, is any dumbass saying “Shame on America” or even “Shame on California”.

When a Canadian (I assume) blogger took exception to the “Shame on Canada” bullshit on file here, and rightfully so......This is where you “lumber” into the story JSLA, and lay some stupid heavy shit about this blogger and people like her “ALWAYS BLAMING AMERICA”.

Ironically,the ONLY evidence of “blaming” on the thread comes from the “Shame on Canada” comments which seek to blame the whole of Canada, not America, but to add insult to injury, YOU, try to twist it around to make it look like LuLu was the antagonist, she was not, it was you.

This is why I say you are stupid.

What’s more, you are a “stalking-jerk-troll” who is constantly scanning the blogs looking for someone who’s opinion is not in “lock-step” with your political dogma. Then you let loose with a : OH MY GOD! I CAN’T CONTROL MY CAPS-LOCK TIRADE!

Did you graduate from the Howard Dean School of Public Communication?

“Gee professor Dean, you can’t really scream on a web-log, so I thought if I just use CAPS-LOCK, ALL THE TIME it will convey the same intensity, right Prof. Dean?”

You don’t make any positive, meaningful or insightful contributions here, you are just a jerk.

I prefer not to have exchanges with leftist liberal individuals such as DaveyFreak, but when such individuals attack my God, my family, my country and my religion I will stand up and be heard. The left can join us or be left to defend themselves without the weapons that they do not want Americans to possess.

The leftist liberals would like to see America ruled by the leftist dogma which is just short of being as morally corrupt as Islam.

I will refrain from upsetting the leftists liberals, until another brainwashed leftist liberal again attacks my God, my family, my country or my religion.

___

To those that do not believe in God, what have you sacrificed in the fight against Islam??
My stance on Islam and our unprotected borders cost me a professional position that paid me very well, but my beliefs in protecting America, my God, my religion and my family are stronger than any amount of money that I can be paid by a politically correct company.

There is a reason that I end my posts with:

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

The Texican

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Archimedes:

I find your posts to be generally very proficient. You stated that 4 of 43 presidents were not Christians. You may find the following information informative.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

# President Religion
1 George Washington Episcopalian (Deist)
2 John Adams Congregationalist (raised); Unitarian
3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian; later no specific denomination
held Christian, Deist, Unitarian beliefs
4 James Madison Episcopalian (deist?)
5 James Monroe Episcopalian (deist?)
6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian
7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian
8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed
9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian
10 John Tyler Episcopalian (deist)
11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian; Methodist
12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian
13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian
14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian
15 James Buchanan Presbyterian
16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist; later no specific denomination (deist)
17 Andrew Johnson Christian (no specific denomination)
18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian; Methodist
19 Rutherford B. Hayes Presbyterian; Methodist (?)
20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ
21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian
22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian
24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
25 William McKinley Methodist
26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
27 William Howard Taft Unitarian
28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian
29 Warren G. Harding Baptist
30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist
31 Herbert Hoover Quaker
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian
33 Harry S. Truman Southern Baptist
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower River Brethren; Jehovah's Witnesses; Presbyterian
35 John F. Kennedy Catholic
36 Lyndon B. Johnson Disciples of Christ
37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker
38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian
39 Jimmy Carter Baptist (former Southern Baptist)
40 Ronald Reagan Disciples of Christ; Presbyterian
41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian
42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist
43 George W. Bush Methodist (former Episcopalian)

Regardless of one's beliefs or non-beliefs, we have a common enemy in Islam that intends on destroying all freedoms in America and across the world.

It will take all to defeat Islam.

Prepare, be armed be ready.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

"I prefer not to have exchanges with leftist liberal individuals such as DaveyFreak, but when such individuals attack my God, my family, my country and my religion I will stand up and be heard. "

As will I when posters such as Lulu blame 9/11 on America, or fatuous fartballs like "the beav" come out and defend her. After accusing me of "not reading others posts" he/she/it clearly didn't notice the impetus of my post above, and only saw fit to call names, and continue to ignore my main point in the post in question.

With each ludicrous post "beav" burrows deeper into the cesspoll of his/her/its own creation. Time to shut your yap, dufus, and stop polluting this otherwise fine thread with your flaccid folderol...

I'm giving "the beav" the benefit of the doubt and assuming he/she/it couldn't possibly agree with Lulu's comment:

"you want to know.. what Carter, Gore, Clinton... reasons why
9-11, yeah it was your fault in not so many words!"

A direct quote from Lulu, that "offended Canadian" who was lashing out because three posters here said "Shame on Canada"

Yet "the beav" may agree, or "the beav" may not agree. When I directly challenged "the beav", "the beav" completely evaded my point, and began calling names.

Ands this morning, after sleeping off the/she/it's boozy interlude, the ever snotty, ever silly, ever wrong "beav" shoulders right back in and begins shovelling the shite...

I'll give you one more chance -- do you agree with Lulu's comment that 9/11 "was [America's] fault in not so many words!" ?

If you don't, then a huge apology is owed by YOU to ME. If you agree, then you're even more moronic than if you simply didn't bother reading Lulu's post which instigated my response to her.

Either way, "beav", you're one giant lameass.

-----will refrain from upsetting the leftists liberals, until another brainwashed leftist liberal again attacks my God, my family, my country or my religion.------

WWHAT?! Can't you see you that you sound EXACTLY like any hardline Islamist!?

When did I attack your country!? You seem to see that God and Christianity is the ONLY thing to follow if you want to be a loyal American! You're a hardline religious danger!
And what happened to the (WISE) seperation of Church and State!?? have you forgotten that?

And anyway I'm British and we are a secular country and are under just as much threat as you you self-rightous nut. As the dead in London testify to!!!
And as for being a 'leftits' liberal. If that is so how come I am so against Islam? Your blind, misguided attacks sum you up.

Islam is a threat against EVERYONE it is a threat against the western way of life. Fantasyland Gods of any religion do not have a monopoly on that threat.

Replace 'God' with 'Allah' and 'Christianity' with 'Islam' in your posts and it shows you as no different from any hardline Islamic cleric!
Fanatics like you and Jerry Falwell are the flip side of hardlime Muslims!
It's because of hardline nuts like you and the Muslims you supposedly stand above that we are in this trouble in the first place!

I am against Islam because it is an oppressive, prejudiced, sexist, homophobic, brain-washing, war-like, human rights destroying religion and religious culture.
Christianity or not has no baring on it!!

Is Christianity a better prospect? Yes it is.
But that does not mean I would welcome a Christian regime ruling my life that is as backwards, oppressive and bigotted as the kind you and your sort represent!

And quite frankly it amazes me that there are so many hypocrites on here that go on and on about the oppressive religious cult known as Islam while harbouring and standing up for the EXACT same type of people who just happen to be Christian extremists and not Islamic extremists!

You don't stand for freedom and liberty...you stand for religious prejudice, dangerous fanaticism and oppressive rules and doctrines. THAT is what people like you stand for.
And it will be a better world when all the people who think like you...Including the Islamists you share so much with...fade away!

The sad, sad irony here is that you 'Texican' stand for many of the things and share many of the attitudes of any Islamist you rant against!!
How ironic is that?? And the irony is even sadder when you happen to be on a site like this!

Akhetnu: I don't have to do a damn thing you say! Because it's my FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
And it sums up hardline Christians and their apologists like you when they act EXACTLY like hardline Islamists when freedom of speech is turned on their be all and end all religion!

Yikes -- for some reason this thread is like a magnet for the terminally insane...

"And it sums up hardline Christians and their apologists like you when they act EXACTLY like hardline Islamists when freedom of speech is turned on their be all and end all religion!"

EXACTLY? How EXACTLY?You mean Akhetnu and 50,000 more exactly like him went and rampaged, burned Embassies, and began beheading? You mean he threatened your life?

Seems like YOU, DaveyFreak are the extremist here -- at least your rant seems pretty extreme to me... What's with these insane secular zealots and crackpots like Lulu, "beav", and "DaveyFreak". What nutjob website made a link to JihadWatch and attracted all of these scabrous self-loathing verminous hatemongers?

Oh and one more thing!

------To those that do not believe in God, what have you sacrificed in the fight against Islam??----

THAT is exactly the kind of blind thought process I mean. Plus it was disgustingly offensive!!

What have the non-Christian/secular memebers of the dead in the Twin Towers, in Bali, in Spain and in London given up??????
THEIR FUCKING LIVES!!!

What a disgrace you are.

More insanity:

"But that does not mean I would welcome a Christian regime ruling my life that is as backwards, oppressive and bigotted as the kind you and your sort represent!"

Don't be silly.

I've never seen anyone at this site proposing such a thing -- but I sure see many paranoid leftist secular fanatics pretending that they are... It somehow makes the distorted prism of your miasmic delusions come into focus, it gives a context for your fulminant hatred, albeit a completely false context.

It's also funny to see posters such as "the beav" and "DaveyFreak" balefully complain about "extremism" at this site, and then observe their swear word laden majuscule laden delusion laden bombastic diatribes...

Like bipolar crack addicts -- they say they come here to discuss the raison d'etre of this site, that is, Jihad... and yet spend most of their time attacking posters here excoriating Christians, and concocting fairytales to justify their various paranoic mental dysfunctionalities...

The only hatemongers I see on here are wearing crosses!

Akhetnu may not share the same ACTIONS but he and that lunatic 'Texican' share the same attitude when it comes to anyone going against their God!
The attitude of'''HOW DARE YOU!! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED!! WHO DO Y0U THINK YOU ARE!! I CONDEMN YOU FOR YOUR VIEWS!! HOW DARE YOU!!

And it's a small step from THAT to taking the 'hands-on' actions the Islamic scum bags have been doing.

A religious nut is a religious nut! No matter what name they give their fantasy God.

And it's nice to see that you ignored the rest of my post. Because it hit home. Because it showed you just how close hardliners like 'Texican' are to those who stand in Mosques.

And jsla...I am here for the reason i have already stated.
Iam against Islam because it is an oppressive, prejudiced, sexist, homophobic, brain-washing, war-like, human rights destroying religion and religious culture.

And not liking Bible thumping, fanatical bigots like 'Texican' DOES NOT CHANGE THAT!

"I am here for the reason i have already stated.
Iam against Islam because it is an oppressive, prejudiced, sexist, homophobic, brain-washing, war-like, human rights destroying religion and religious culture."

Then stay on topic -- why keep diverting this thread into these nearly insane cul de sacs -- I see you doint it, I see "the beav" doing it. I just don't understand why posters like you come and get so exercised about Christians. The day the "Christians" start chopping off heads, and stoning people to death, I'll be right there with you --

But since they don't, and since I don't see it happening any time EVER -- you look a lot more like a completely brain bruised lunatic that Texican ever could! Look in the mirror -- you seem to be motivated by such a deep fear and loathing of Christians that you're confusing them with Muslims! If that's not insane, especially after all the atrocities we've seen from the Muslim world... I don't know what is. It's not only insane, it's terribly dangerous -- and threatens to draw your attention away from a real menace which threatens us all, and expend your energy on a menace which is only in your fevered imagination!

"Sorry folks, but idiot fanatics like 'The Texican' are just the kind of people that do organisations like 'Jihad Watch' no good!"

Davey, please don't leave this movement and this site for that reason. The aggression on this thread would delight any 'divide and rule' Islamists - and that, along with being perceived as fundamentalist Christian does this organisation no good. In fact, some of the posts have been so right-wing that I'm embarrassed to encourage my friends to read the site, but they need to read it, and they need to see people like us here.

So let's post about the values those of us who are anti-Islam and liberal share? There are many of us here.

We can't stop fundamentalist Christians from being here, but we can emphasise to each other and the world reading this site that they do not 'own' the anti-Islamist movement.

I believe it was 'the Texican' who went off-topic when he made typically prejudiced, bigotted remarks about books like 'My two Dads'!!
Or have we selective memory?

And yeah, I agree at THIS TIME Islam is indeed the main and immediate danger and not Christian nutters(But wow! they sure had a fun time at mass murder in the past).

But do you know what is even less of a threat???
Do you??
I'll tell you.
It's people who stock, read and write books like 'My two Dads"!!
But raging homophobe 'Texican' takes time-out to attack them. And in fact Islamists would agree with him.

Again, a hypocritical stance is here to be seen and more sad irony is in evidence.

One more point: I have no statitics on this, but I would guess that until recently many anti-Islamists have been more of the fundamentalist Christian world view.

Recent events, such as the cartoon issue, have woken me up, and hopefully many other atheists/agnostics as well. This is exactly what is needed to get some government influence, through political parties we can actually vote for. I couln't vote for an anti-gay party, so I need to see our NZ Labour party and Greens understanding the threat of Islamism and creating policies accordingly.

And fundamentalist Christians should support the idea that all political parties must understand and deal with the threat. So let's work TOGETHER on this.

Davey Freak, just what have you "personally" sacrificed in the fight against Islam??
Answer this one you leftist liberal....
___

And what happened to the (WISE) separation of Church and State!?? have you forgotten that?
Posted by: DaveyFreak

Davey Freak (Brit):
The First Amendment of the American Constitution does not state separation between government and religion.
Amendment I States:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances

I love it when those that are not American try to tell Americans how to live.
___

And anyway I'm British and we are a secular country and are under just as much threat as you you self-rightous nut. As the dead in London testify to!!!
Posted by: DaveyFreak

It is sad that innocent Americans, Brits, French, Africans and others have been killed by Islam.

The more that a people and secular governments separate themselves from God, such as has been done in Europe, the greater the problems that these nations have with the destruction of morality and laws within their countries.

Look at the current conditions in Europe.
___

As to secular believers.
Secular believers (leftist elitist liberals), which is a belief system onto itself; desire to see all religions destroyed. Once Islam is destroyed, they will try to destroy Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and all other religions.

Davey Freak why do you fear God and Christianity??

I have seen it time and again, when Christians or any other peaceful religion stands up to the leftist liberals, the left goes insane with hate and venom when the left gets treated the way the left treats others. The elitist left can not stand any religion that does not bow down to them.

Davey Freak, it will be a cold day in hell before America bows down to Islam or to the leftist liberal dogma.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

"Recent events, such as the cartoon issue, have woken me up, and hopefully many other atheists/agnostics as well. "

EXACTLY -- For me, this "revelation" happened in the immediate days after 9/11 -- I was FORCED by the horror of what I saw to reappraise nearly every assumption I had made in my former liberal secular comfortable life. Forced to, because I certainly didn't want to continue embracing some of the ideas which were complicit in bringing the West to this crossroad. But upon honest examination, many of the tenets of the left, some of which I embraced, but most of which I simply tolerated such as extremist secularism, the kind the ACLU promotes, that is, something tantamount to anti-Christianity at all costs... were complicit. Other notions such as the rampant PC fanaticism we see in the Western media, or the inculcated loathing for capitalism we see promoted by the extreme left, or the malignant leftist assumptions that Western hegemony or Imperialism is the root cause of all the world's woes... All of these ideas are implicated.

The right has many things to re-examine as well -- including unfettered devotion to unregulated capitalism -- or the notion that profits trump national interest... or that the market will always correct imbalances in appropriate ways -- the Port Deal being only 1 recent symptom of the Right's errors...

The world changed on 9/11 -- and we're still learning the contours of these changes. We're not there yet. But one thing is for certain -- the flexible West -- our ability to adapt and self correct is one trait the Muslim eating machine doesn't posess -- Perhaps this, more than anything else, will prove our greatest boon, and their greatest flaw...

Hey Davey, you're right here now - great!

As a pro-gay, pro-choice woman living 'in sin' with my lovely partner, if fundamentalist Christians got to make laws affecting my life I would not be happy. And I'll say it here, since it seems to be necessary to clearly define this movement as not only right-wing: I'm not just pro-gay, I used to be bisexual (too settled with a man now for it to be relevant any more, except as a 'solidarity' issue).

Of course you're right about Christian religious wars and murders in the past, but Islamists love emphasising that, pretending that makes us equal. Our point must surely be that the West has moved on and Islam urgently needs to as well?

And today I heard that India is looking at ridding itself of anti-gay laws - so instead of the West one could say that non-muslim countries are moving on.

Have you checked out AskImam? You can search topics such as 'rape', 'women', 'homosexuality', 'veil', 'music', 'war' etc to get their answers from the horse's mouth. The benefits of this are that one is not just referring to the koran, but to the way imams interpret it today and influence Muslims worldwide. I can send links to their horrible answers to my friends to help them understand, without even needing to add my comments or needing to refer them to this site.

Jsla - by woken up I don't mean I've become a Christian. Just woken up to the threat of Islamism rather than just terrorism.

For what it's worth - Texican -- I really like you and like your posts. But the comment about "My Two Dads" was not necessary. Gays aren't responsible for the Muslim menace... To the extent you believe the "Gay" agenda is responsible for the advent of the Leftist agenda -- perhaps that too is an important area that the right must re-assess... It is a falsehood, I believe, and turns them into convenient scapegoats. I know MANY Gay men who are politically quite conservative, but are shut out of the arena because off rejectionism.

Gay people are among the most peaceful non violent non threatening people I know. I don't fear them, and think the vilification of Gays largely by the right wing is just as bad as the vilification of Christians by the left...

Nor I. Still agnostic. Don't believe. Would love it if I could. Just can't.

Well said, Jsla. Isn't it interesting how we learn more about each other and find more areas of agreement the more we 'talk'?

Davey Freak:

You follow the common leftist liberal dogma of attacking your so-called foe with lies about being a bigot, anti-gay, etc.

Prove your lies by listing my posts showing that your posts are not leftist liberal lies.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Texican - so you're pro-gay? Or at least not anti-gay and wouldn't support any anti-gay laws? That's really great. It just shows that all of us have subtle and complex opinions that can't easily be summed up by a few words or a title.

And I guess that is our hope for Muslims who don't like Islamism. They need to speak up, start a New Islam, now.

For what it's worth - Texican -- I really like you and like your posts. But the comment about "My Two Dads" was not necessary.
Posted by: jsla
___

JSLA,

I apprecaite that. I agree that Islam is the enemy, but there are many deep feelings that interfer with this task.

Please tell me where I posted anything about "My Two Dads"?

I believe that you have mistaken the lies of the leftist liberal Davey Freak who accused me in one of his posts about condemning “My Tow Dads” as is standard practice of the leftist liberals when they can not win is to accuse their foes of bigotry, being anti-gay, etc.

Davey Freak did not accuse me of being anti-Jew, is this because he is against all religions????

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

And I guess that is our hope for Muslims who don't like Islamism. They need to speak up, start a New Islam, now.
Posted by: Lilith
-------

Zaquira has just called again for all Muslims to attack America.

If Muslims across the world would stand up and destroy the terrorists across the world, then the world could live in peace. I wouldn't bet the ranch on this one.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

'I believe it was 'the Texican' who went off-topic when he made typically prejudiced, bigotted remarks about books like 'My two Dads'!!
Or have we selective memory?'~ Davey

Texican called it. There is NO reference to 'My Two Dads' before Davey brought it up.

Can we please go back to murtadd and his love affair with a book advocating death?

Wow, I'm listening to the news right now and every single worldwide item relates to Islamism and terrorism. If people don't wake up now, they must be in a coma...

Can we please go back to murtadd and his love affair with a book advocating death?
Posted by: Gary
___

As I started to do two days ago, when I allowed myself to be sidetracked.

The communists had a programming plan to defeat the free world by using our schools and universities to indoctrinate our children to the acceptability of total government domination. This is still underway. Just look at Colorado Springs and our liberal universities.

If you repeatedly tell a child that killing innocents is ok for your cause, they will finally accept this and then can be lead to commit such crimes unless reprogrammed.

The taking of innocent lives is not acceptable and not acceptable to be taught to 11 year olds. 11 year olds do not have the basic mental maturity to determine what is right or wrong without very strong guidance which probably will not happen.

The programming of the children across the world is underway.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Texican,

Thanks for that list. It is what I would have expected (most Presidents being Christian), but it is informative, as you say.

My original comment, though, was about the founding fathers, which is why I focussed on the early presidents. Deist is not Christian; there is a big difference. (Thomas Paine's writings, for example, illustrate just how big the difference can be). Deists are not theists or atheists, but I think they are closer in their beliefs to atheists. Deism was very common during the age of the founding fathers...

Anyways, Texican, you are absolutely correct that whatever our religious beliefs or lack thereof, the problem is Islam (and those who unwittingly assist it). And it seems our task is chiefly to educate the non-Muslims.

Actually Gary you are wrong! I did not just bring up 'My Two Dads'.

But I am also wrong.
"The Texican" IS ALL of the things i have said he is as his awful posts show.
He is as rabid and hateful a religious nut as most hardline Muslims.
End of.

BUT, looking back it was not 'The Texican' who mentioned 'My two Dads' it was his partner in disgrace 'Bar'.
And i quote from 'Bars' post above:
------here in the US I believe most children in public schools are exposed to books like “Johnny has two dads” and “Jenny has two moms” as part of the disgusting leftist dogma masquerading it as sex education, when they are just to young to be educated, but the perfect age to be indoctrinated.----

This is the kind of person that represents this site?

AGAIN...Can't you see that such attitudes are in line with that which Islam teaches!?
IN FACT I shall bring up a perfect example.
The head of the 'MUSLIM Council of Britain' recently said that homosexuality is a sin and that it damages society!!
The HEAD of the MUSLIM Council of Britain would in fact agree 100% with people like 'Bar' (and I'm sure 'The Texican').
So you are indeed closer to your enemy than you would care to admit!

And just to get back to good 'ol boy 'Texican'

-----The more that a people and secular governments separate themselves from God, such as has been done in Europe, the greater the problems that these nations have with the destruction of morality and laws within their countries.----

Someone, right now, tell me what difference there is in that sentence and what many a Muslim cleric has stated?

Here you are PREACHING about people's morals? Here you are stating that morality is destroyed by those who do not embrace Islam (sorry, Christianity) and Allah (sorry, God). See how they can be so easily mixed up!?

You are once again showing that you are of the same mindset as those in Islam who would ALSO like to ensure that Europe, and infact the whole world, lives under Islamic Law. Only you want Christian Law and doctrines to hold sway instead and spill forth utter rubbish about the destruction of morals and soiciety by those who do not!
You ARE a cleric! Can't you see that!?

And exactly what great Christian morality is this anyway?
Morality like the wholesale financial fraud by The Vatican bank?
Morality like the disgusting cover-ups of wholesale child rape by Catholic priests (supposedly men - no women allowed remember - who have been CALLED BY GOD!!) by The Catholic Church?
The Morality that sees the funerals of dead American soldiers desacrated by protestors from a local Christian group who called the deaths of American soldiers punishment for the army 'harbouring gays'? Something witnessed very recently.

What exactly is this morality that you and your religion brings to all us disgusting sinners then?

LOOK. I am not saying Islam is not the threat we ALL need to fight. WE DO.
And I agree that Christian/Western civilisation has indeed moved on and evolved from the disgusting oppression and atrocity it used to embrace. It while it has moved on and evolved sure enough Islam has not!
Islam, in all but it's most watered down form, is a backwards, evil, murderous, oppressive blight that needs to be (at the very least) halted and kept to the countries that choose such a barabaric way of life. I AGREE.

But let us not fool ourselves into thinking that hardline, oppressive, equally brainwashed, prejudiced bigots like 'Bar' and 'The Texican' are in anyway representative of the kind of society and world we need if and when Islam is neutralised.

They may not reach the barbaric, murderous heights of the most extreme Islamic freaks...But they are most certainly up there with many a hardline Islamist!
And just as dangerous! As witnessed by the amazingly war like posts by 'The Texican' on his claim that people not liking his brand of Christianity are in fact attacking his country!
THAT is EXACTLY the kind of blind, deluded fanaticism that so easily mutates into out and out aggression and war!

And the last time I looked this site was called 'Jihad Watch'. NOT 'Jihad Watch but only by those who love God'!

And why ANYONE who is anti a hardline religion like Islam would want to be linked to such hardline Christians is beyond me!

To DaveyFreak:

Actually, sir, I am not Christian, and in fact have my disagreements with them on certain other issues. But that's OK...if you read Texican's posts he agrees with freedom of religion and was not the one who mentioned the book "My Two Dads."

In fact, the tone of your own posts sounds more fanatic than his by far. And you will notice the wide diversity of people in here as far as various other beliefs.

I was not implying any single religion should rule anyone, just lamenting about the topic going off kilter and pointing out that we are all here because we agree on the threat Islam poses and should stick to that.

Oh and if anyone wants to chat off or on topic personally, my AOL instant messenger name is also 'Akhetnu' (especially Archimedes and Dumb Ox...you sound like interesting philosophy type fellows).

"This is the kind of person that represents this site?"

Not exclusively. And the more of us stay on, the less it will be so.

"And why ANYONE who is anti a hardline religion like Islam would want to be linked to such hardline Christians is beyond me!"

I don't see myself as linked to them on all topics. I link with people on issues we have agreement on and not on others.

I'm beginning to think we don't need to argue with people posting things here we disagree with (I've decided after a rather heated discussion about death penalty in an earlier thread). The point of the site is to inform people about Islamism. And all that new visitors need to know about our other opinions is that a good spectrum is represented, so that they feel welcome and stay on. It's actually a good thing to show that anti-Islamism is represented across the spectrum.

So we should certainly state our opinions, such as 'pro-gay', 'anti-fundamentalism' etc., and point out where we disagree with other posts, but there is no need to argue as such or try and change people's other opinions. Let Bar be anti-gay - so what, more of us can be rationally and calmly pro-gay.

And surely a calm and rational approach is more likely to sway people's opinions if that is your goal?

Why do I get the feeling nariz / giaour has returned in a new guise?

Who's that and whom do you mean?

Do you mean Nareez? Why - who in this thread is pro-Islamist?

I believe it was 'the Texican' who went off-topic when he made typically prejudiced, bigotted remarks about books like 'My two Dads'!!
Or have we selective memory?
Posted by: DaveyFreak at March 4, 2006 04:53 PM
=======

Davey Freak, you leftist liberal brainwashing clouds you mind so greatly, that you can do nothing more that follow the standard operating practice of leftist liberals to attack those that you detest and accuse them of being bigots, anti-gay, etc irrespective of the facts.

When you are challenged and the facts are presented to you, you yell and scream and continue to fail to support your lies.

The war is with Islam, not between us.

I am willing to have peace between us and to agree to disagree and leave our personal beliefs out of our posts to each other.

The choice is yours.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

My apologies for the OT and offensive remarks.

It was not my intent to malign gays, my argument was in the context of adult subjects being introduced to young impressionable children.

The Bible mentions many, many sins and also presents human nature as sinful which makes all people equal. And I also kinda like the American Declaration of Independence, which states and I quote “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”...thus I am not anti-anyone, I may disagree with yours and others opinions at times, but that does not mean I against freedom of speech or ideas. America would be unbalanced if we didn’t have a left and a right and a center and a whole bunch of in-between.

Lulu, JSLA, Beav, et. al.

WHAT!?

Okay, saying shame on Canada for allowing this to happen -- I, quite frankly, interpret this the same as all of the Americans have been saying saying shame on the U.S. if we allow the ports deal to go through. The shame is not the shame of the average citizen in either country who wants the best for their country, it is that not enough people are fully aware or active enough once they become aware. This is largely due to the way our politicians (ditto European politicians) have handled the whole Islam issue these past many years. On that note, I would have liked to have ended by saying that we should indeed NOT be fighting our natural allies in splinter aruguments.

HOWEVER,
Lulu, I am going to hope that I misinterpreted your meaning -- 9/11 was America's fault?

Whoa. Back it up a step. If you want to lay out the hows and whys of that one you go ahead and feel free, and then recognize that Bin Laden thinks it was our fault too, and says he did it to bring our wayward ways to our attention. Do you really want to be in such company? If you do, you are no natural ally of mine.

I don't blame you for wanting to defend your country from a "shame on Canada" kind of remark. I don't think that remark was really meant as deeply as you felt it, but, perhaps yours about America's fault in 9/11 wasn't meant that way either.

If someone sanctions the killing of innocents by saying that they brought it on themselves through the actions of their governments -- whether they are are Canadian, American, Israeli, or Palestinian -- they are uncivilized. It's pretty much a matter of definition.

And those people in the towers were innocents.

Enough said.

I've said it on another thread, but here it goes again. This is NOT and LGBT site. If you want to indulge in that activity, do it on your own time, in private. Most certainly don't throw a snit when someone doesn't want to accept your behavior. At least the Mohammedans are entertaining in their bluster. Lefties and their "what about us gays?! Pay attention to me!!" bullsh!t is just getting tiring. You wanna complain about something? Complain about the jihadis with the bomb-vests and halal knives. We need warriors, not sniveling little children and thier laughable complaints about people not respecting their choices of who they want to 'sleep' with. Grow up.

This is NOT an LGBT site.
Posted by: Eisenhund

My imagination has run circles around what LGBT stands for and most can not be printed.

So, Eisenhund, please define LGBT.

Lesbian,gay,bisexual,transgender=LGBT

LOL Eisenhund, looks like Bar's little comment sparked a lot of debate and assumed meanings. I certainly wouldn't have seen the need to bring the topic up if I hadn't thought it was important to show that this site represents the whole spectrum. I don't care whom you sleep with, either!

Yeah well, that crap gets me thinking about my ex-fiancée and her "wife" and puts me in a foul mood. Jihadis piss me off too, but 13 yrs of Mechanized Infantry gave me the tools to sort out that lot in short order. There have been a few posters lately who've seemingly gone on a gay rights crusade around here as well as declaring open season on Christianity. In the Army, soldiers fighting amongst themselves within view of the enemy used to garner a court martial, and very often the death penalty. There was a reason for that.

Hm, Eisenhund, sorry about your 'foul mood' - I know the feeling.

Interesting point about fighting in view of the enemy - we're certainly having debates here in view of the world, but I hope Muslims seeing the way we talk, openly express all views and often agree to disagree in a friendly manner can teach them something.

I guess once we've all agreed that Islamism is the problem, we'll all be bringin up different ideas on what to do, and there will be differences. That's good: lots of ideas lead to better outcomes than just one perspective would.

"Hm, Eisenhund, sorry about your 'foul mood' - I know the feeling."

Thanks.

Yeah well, that crap gets me thinking about my ex-fiancée and her "wife" and puts me in a foul mood. Jihadis piss me off too

"Hm, Eisenhund, sorry about your 'foul mood' - I know the feeling."

I kind of like it. Makes your posts more to the point.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

My posts get to the point. I just don't like having my flanks exposed as I do it. Joes with semantic RPG's can do damage if you don't gain fire superiority or kill 'em as you go along.

My posts get to the point. I just don't like having my flanks exposed as I do it. Joes with semantic RPG's can do damage if you don't gain fire superiority or kill 'em as you go along.
Posted by: Eisenhund

I seem to have riled the leftist liberals with my Attila the Hun right wing protectionism of God, counmtry, family and religion. It just drives the leftist liberals nuts when you use the same in your face reaction to their leftist liberal dogma that the leftists liberals uses on everyone else.

As more time goes by, I have developed the opinion that President Bush is more concerned about his fellow elitists profits than security in America. When oil went to $60 per barrel how much money did his friends make and did his family benefit from the $60/barrel oil??

Why are our borders still not protected. Does guess worker program lend any clues. President Bush talks about building up the bottom of the economic ladder, but allows all of the jobs at the bottom of the economic stratum to be taken by invaders from across the border....... How can you get ahead if you can not receive reasonable pay for the work you do if you can even get a job...... The indians called this speaking with a forked tongue.

How many Islamic terrorists have corssed into America since 9/11 because President Bush did not shut down our borders, thousands or tens of thousands??

It seems we are fighting a war with Islam and political correctness.

Protect those sides.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

You think I'm a leftist liberal? I hope that's not what you're saying. If so, I'd have to tell ya to lay off the tequila and start reading what my posts say, not what you think they say. I was far too bloodthirsty an infantryman for anyone to ever mistake me for some yellow-bellied leftist. And I'm about as liberal as my Scottish and Irish ancestors in that I don't care what you do, try to force me to do something, you'll either get the blade or the bullet.

You think I'm a leftist liberal?
Posted by: Eisenhund

Farthest thought from my mind.

The comment was in relationship to the exchanges that I had earlier with DaveyFreak.

No tequila, just JD Black Label.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Aah. Seems he's run off for now. Maybe he actually read the name of the site, figured out what it meant, and ran off to get a hug after the big bad Righties were mean to him. I'm sure he'd remember the comments fondly if he had Abdullah sawing off his head with a butcher knife.

I'd forgotten about that nareez. No... Davey, i fear, reminds me of one giaour / nariz / (at least one other name), who comes here in the hopes of convincing people that 'reconstructionists' are out to take over the US (at least). Look it up. Comparisons of Christians to islam is a staple of his arguments. This is what he fears:

The ‘Other’ Threat:
http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz200505020944.asp

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17957

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17927

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17958

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20050513.shtml

And with that I shall say no more. He did a good job of distracting from this thread; I just hope people took advantage of the library contacts I posted.

I'm still here Bible thumpers.

And seeing as you are all so blind I guess you just can't get this through your thick skullss. So here it is again:

From 'Texican'
-----The more that a people and secular governments separate themselves from God, such as has been done in Europe, the greater the problems that these nations have with the destruction of morality and laws within their countries.----

Someone, right now, tell me what difference there is in that sentence and what many a Muslim cleric has stated?

Here you are PREACHING about people's morals? Here you are stating that morality is destroyed by those who do not embrace Islam (sorry, Christianity) and Allah (sorry, God). See how they can be so easily mixed up!?

You are once again showing that you are of the same mindset as those in Islam who would ALSO like to ensure that Europe, and infact the whole world, lives under Islamic Law. Only you want Christian Law and doctrines to hold sway instead and spill forth utter rubbish about the destruction of morals and soiciety by those who do not!
You ARE a cleric! Can't you see that!?

Hardline Chritian nutters are most certainly up there with many a hardline Islamist!
And just as dangerous!
As witnessed by the amazingly war like posts by 'The Texican' on his claim that people not liking his brand of Christianity are in fact attacking his country!
THAT is EXACTLY the kind of blind, deluded fanaticism that so easily mutates into out and out aggression and war!
___

Sorry...but Islam may be the most backwards and dangerous ideal the World now faces (I AGREE you idiots!) but rabid Bible freaks like too many on here do 'liberty' and 'freedom' and the cause of this site...no good at all.

AND they most certainly do America no good.

And if that logiv is too ironic for you.
lets move it into a language you will understand.

Christian extremism by dumb yokels like Bush is what gets us into a mess like Iraq.
All this talking to God rubbish is what helped to push us (US!!) into a war with a country that was no threat!
Saddam was a Muslim freak who was murdering Muslims.
he was a Muslim problem and let those fuckers deal with him or live with him.
There were no WMD's...it was a lie.

NOW because of this we have all these troops and militery resources are stuck in the shithole that is Iraq for no reason and no good...When where we DO need them is in Iran!
IRAN is the big Islamist threat to the world!
IRAN is the new Nazi state and it's scum leader the new Hitler.
We should have everything at our hands to take out the Iranian regime before they DO get a lousy nuke!

ut because of Bible bashing (can't form a sentence) Bush we are wasting time, money and resources in Iraq!

Iran is the shit that needs to be wiped off the World's shoes...yet here we are stuck in Iraq for no damn reason.

ALL, organised, man made religions, and all their prejudiced backwards bullshit, are mostly dangerous (with Islam being the biggest threat at the moment) and should die out. And I hope such crass (and plainly deluded) prejudices that they foster dies out too.
Posted by: DaveyFreak at March 3, 2006 09:11 PM
___

How acceptable is to attack all religions and want them dead???????

___
I believe it was 'the Texican' who went off-topic when he made typically prejudiced, bigotted remarks about books like 'My two Dads'!!
Or have we selective memory?
But raging homophobe 'Texican' takes time-out to attack them. And in fact Islamists would agree with him.
Posted by: DaveyFreak at March 4, 2006 04:53 PM
___

When you do not agree with someone, how acceptable is it to resort to calling that person perjudiced, bigotted, anti-gay, etc. and when challenge refuses to support his lies.

___

BUT it seems Jihad Watch has very much been taken over by rabid Christian fundamentalists who in fact do nothing but bring one type of religious oppression to replace another and quite frankly taint the whole idea that 'Jihad Watch' should stand for.
Posted by: DaveyFreak
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Davey Freak:

Your hate for religion clouds your senses. You have been brainwashed by the leftist liberal dogma to where you condemn all religions and those that stand up and defend their religion and so tell you. This rankles you.
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As I posted on 3/4/06:
I am willing to have peace between us and to agree to disagree and leave our personal beliefs out of our posts to each other.
The choice is yours.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
Posted by: Texican at March 4, 2006 07:15 PM
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Davey Freak:

You continue to attack and think you are innocent and you do not realize that you are also part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Be a mature man and realize that Christianity and Christians will not go away. You will have a miserable life if you can not accept religious people.

I offered peace and you only offer vile retorts.

When you do not believe in freedom of religion but only in freedom from religion, your brand of freedom is no better than the brand of freedom offered by Islam.

I have had my say. I will refrain from responding to any additional leftists liberal dogma.

Davey Frank this may astonish you, but I also agree that America has a failed policy in Iraq and should cut our losses and leave and let the Muslims fight it out.

God bless you Davey Freak. I will pray for you.

The enemy is Islam.

Prepare, be armed, be ready.

The Texican.

Freedom, the only choice at any cost.

Texican -- Apologies! I mistakenly accepted the insane poster's lie about your post. I should have read more thoroughly and checked - For some reason this particular thread seemed to draw the attentions of all the crazies Bar -- Murtadd -- the beav -- Lulu -- and the "freak".

After repudiating Lulu for blaming 9/11 on America, and then defending myself from attacks by "the beav" for my defending America against that slander by Lulu, my attentions were distracted by the onslaught of swill, including "DaveyFreak's" prevaricating freaky freakishness.

ut ya know what Lulu? I deplore smug Canadians and Europeans blaming their fuck-ups on America even more!
Posted by: jsla [TypeKey Profile Page] at March 3, 2006 05:22 PM
oh jsla... l did not blame the U.S. on 9-11.. l was paraphrasing what clinton,gore,carter said.. and if you think l am smug that is your problem... as l blame many things on the Cdn .government...
and Europeans.. you seem to read one comment l made and then you blew a gasket..
you see just less than half of the voting US voted for Kerry.. who are as liberal as Cdns and Europeans.. they would think Clinton,Gore and Carter are the best since sliced bread.
my other point was that you cannot blame an entire country what a few stupid librarians said..
you should of put more words in my post, and said that l was paraphrasing what those clowns said. my apology.. english was not first language, and even now.. l get ahead of myself and make mistakes

OK Lulu --Apology accepted. Perhaps I should have asked for clarification, although it seemed very clear to me when I read it then, and pon re-reading it (yet again just to be sure.) I'll chalk it up to a really unfortunate turn of phrase.