A love note from a defender of the death penalty for apostasy

I wonder, however: what "knoledge" might an apostate from Islam have that he could give to the "enemy"?

"Knoledge" of the nature of Islam, methinks. Sites such as Ali Sina's must be very embarrasing - disseminating all that "knoledge" when the likes of John Esposito and Stephen Schwartz are doing their best to prepare the ground for a takeover by this violent inegalitarian misogynistic creed by hiding its real nature from the infidels, who they know full well would be horrified by the truth.

that muslim who compared belonging to a spy group as belonging to islam equal. that islam has secrets and not to be given up to the regular people, including gulible media people. that mindset is totally barbaric and no way does it belong with democracy.
l have always said democracy, not what is placed in afganistan currently cannot live alongside with islam. we just need to send over more liberals to arab countries, start with lawyers and proffesors such as warren churchill!

The turd who wrote to Mr spencer did not expand much on astophy...so hare is a more detailed explanation.

The legal basis of Islam is the Sharia, Islamic law, that controls and orders all areas of life.

It is not a moral law for the sensitising of conscience but is a penal law, requiring the punishment of violators through an instrument of the state. Islam demands a religious state as an executor to enforce the law.

Therefore to maintain balance a Muslim is not free to believe or do what he wishes. He is under Islamic law, which was derived and assimilated from the Qur´an, the example of Muhammad (sunna), the final analogy (qijas) and consensus (idjmaa).

Whoever falls away from faith in Islam commits -- from an Islamic perspective -- an unforgivable sin. He takes himself away from Allah, his owner -- which is theft -- and weakens the Islamic state.

So how is astophy defined?

1)Apostasy -- Allah forbid it -- is the unbelief of a Muslim who had publicly confessed faith in Islam willingly, according to his knowledge of the fundamentals of Islam, by professing the two main articles of faith (al-shahadatain):

There is no god but Allah. Muhammad is his messenger.

2)Apostasy can occur by an explicit declaration, such as, "I associate other gods alongside Allah" (usherek billah), or by a claim that results in blasphemy, such as, "Allah has a material substance or a shape just like other substances or shapes" (kufr), or by an action that clearly resembles blasphemy, such as carelessly discarding a Qur´an, or parts of it, or even a word of it (not as an honourable way of disposing it, or as a treatment for the sick), as well as burning the Qur´an out of contempt, and every manner of soiling it (such as putting it in a holy place that has become dirty, or staining it with an unclean substance, such as turning its pages with fingers that have been licked).

3)The same holds true for "the most beautiful names of Allah," the Hadith collections (traditions), the works of Islamic law and theology, when the Sharia and its regulations are thereby treated with disrespect or contempt, as well as the names of the prophets.

4)When a Muslim enters a church, worships an idol, or learns and practises magic, for by magic one glorifies a name other than Allah and ascribes predestination, knowledge and control of fate to someone other than Allah.

5)If he says that the world has always existed from eternity (qadim), for this assumption denies the existence of the Creator, or when he says that the world is everlasting and without end, since this is a denial of resurrection -- even if he himself believes in the resurrection.

6)A Muslim also becomes an unbeliever and blasphemer when he denies the existence of Allah, believes in the transmigration of souls (reincarnation) -- since this is a denial of resurrection -- or when he denies a decision agreed upon unanimously by the Islamic community (ummah), such as the obligatory necessity of prayer and fasting or the prohibition of adultery. He also becomes a blasphemer when he denies that which is allowed (halal) -- things over which the scholars of law agree, concerning what can be definitively concluded according to religion based on the Qur´an and the unbroken, traditional Sunna (the path, lifestyle and manners) of the Prophet.

7)A Muslim loses his faith when he suggests the possibility of prophethood being acquired through spiritual exercise.

8) Furthermore, a Muslim becomes an apostate if he defames a prophet's character, morals, virtues, or religion, if he accuses angels of having bad qualities, or if he questions the efficacy of a prophet's asceticism.

Islam is a beaqutiful religion...why would you want to leave it... ( I also wonder where I stand ?) having said that ....to impose the death penalty for leaving it absolutely stupid...and needs to change.

From NaseemThere is no god (illah) but Allah. Muhammad is his messenger.

The number 1 lie on which most other Islamic lies are built.

'(buy the way i'm anti terrorist and pro democracy but i love my religion'

I dont think I want to buy any ways...Democracy is not halal in Islam, so this writer is an apostate according to Naseems definitions above.
Break out your rusty knife...this guys got to go...Allah knows best...

Naseem again: It is not a moral law for the sensitising of conscience but is a penal law, requiring the punishment of violators through an instrument of the state. Islam demands a religious state as an executor to enforce the law.

This is more proof that Islam is not a religion, but a political entity.

"Islam is a beaqutiful religion...why would you want to leave it " ( ? )

Naseem,

Could it be possible that there are Muslims who live Islam such as the man from Afganistan for Italy who became a Christian and was threatened with death because he made a choice to accept the risen Christ in his life as Lord? Could it be because the real beauty of the Christian is Jesus alive and active forever?

The risen Christ is not only the foundation of the Christian faith, but the reason why people, even Muslims come to faith in Christ.

bigcatgirl13106 says "Could it be because the real beauty of the Christian is Jesus alive and active forever?"

Ofcourse he is not actually alive....but it is your belief of his acts and moral laws by which you live....a bit like Islam really ..don't you think?

You say "The risen Christ is not only the foundation of the Christian faith, but the reason why people, even Muslims come to faith in Christ".

Many peoples in Islam & non-christian believers think that he was not cruxified at all...that it was a sub....and that he did not need to rise ...as he was alive all the time...and showed up three days later.

This is obviously a big thing for you ....and requires a huge leap in faith....nothing much wrong with that....but it just strikes me that what you do is dawa....only of a different faith.

In this respect we are the "dawa sisters". Sounds like a good name for a band. Now all we need is some lyrics...don't you think?

I am not a Doctor. But after reading the article I think someone has a bad case of AD/HD.

Distractibility, disorganization, depression, mood swings, relationship problems,
if you suffer from these are any other mental illness, the “religion of peace” would like to send you on a one-way trip to the beautiful land of Israel, new "vest" provided of course.

Allah Akbar!

Islam is a beaqutiful religion...why would you want to leave it... this said by Naseem,
l dont kow why would anyone want to be muslim after reading the koran,hadith, sura.
Logically if this so called beautful reglion was so great, why is there a penalty of death for leaving it? if this so called relgion of peace was so great you would get droves becoming muslim..
no when freedom of choice is freely given, islam will cease to exist. you have this grossly violent relgion in its legs.

Robert's correspondent nicely displays the logic of Islam.

Islam is not so much a religion as a fighting faith, with emphasis on the adjective. Converting Infidels to Islam, or forcing their conversion, is a matter not so much of saving individual souls, as Christian missionaries attempt to do, but to help Islam itself, by signing up recruits. Become a Muslim, and you have joined the Army of Islam. And when you join the Army of Islam, which is made extremely easy -- just say the Magic Words, the Shehada, and that's it -- you will learn more and more about Islam. You will learn what is taught about Infidels. You will learn what is said, and not only in mosques, about Infidels -- just ask Ibn Warraq about what he was privy to, as a former Pakistani, in England, or Ali Sina, as an Iranian who had grown up a Muslim, or others who were Muslims and exposed thoroughly to the tenets, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam -- and cannot be fooled.

That knowledge that they possess has always been treated, and even more so given the new interest by Infidels in learning what exactly Islam is all about, as akin to a state secret. You do not report to others on what Islam is all about. Even among those Muslims who might not think that death should be the punishment for apostasy -- that is, dropping Islam for another faith -- any hint that the former Muslim is telling tales on Islam, explaining what its real doctrines are, and what is said about Infidels behind their backs (why, I once happened to eavesdrop on an outwardly kindly, twinkly-eyed Pakistani grocer and newspaper vendor in London, always full of smiles and expressions of interest for his customers, including me and other Infidels -- it was quite something to hear him talking, in English, about those very Infidels).

Of course this kind of thing is treason. Islam is an army - the Army of Islam. Muslims are recruits. They must obey. They must not tell the enemy secrets about Islam.

Despite the army of apologists for Islam in the West, the truth -- as revealed by the seemingly semi-demented, but actually entirely coherent and perfectly orthodox if semi-literate, Muslim correspondent above -- will keep coming out. Infidels merely need to possess some knowledge in order to make sense of it all, to more fully comprehend.

you idiot, if you are working for the united states secret ervice and then you decide to leave and give all your knoledge to the enemy what is the punishment for this person according to usa law?...

Subliterate and unhinged. Yeah, man, the ladies love that... ;)

the point, dear correspondent who wrote to robert and who loves democracy... is that muhammed did not have revelations, but heard voices that told him what he wanted to hear. islam is not of God, and leaving it can be a first step in seeking truth.

we (including those born to islam and whose ancestors were forced into it) must be able to say these things without fear of physical violence; the right to say them and to act on them by conversion is a bedrock democratic principle.

islam is to be feared, not revered. muhammed was basically a nut case.

(by the way i'm anti democracy and pro terrorist but i hate anyone who is not my religion

There ya go, fixed that for ya.

Naseem, nice to see you on here again. No Naseem, Christianity and Islam are poles apart. Jesus asked God to forgive them because they didn't know what there were doing, but Mohammad slaughtered those who mocked him, and he says to slaughter all those who wont submit.
Jesus said to love our enemies, but when it suited him, Mohammad killed his enemies. Mohammads enemies were all those who would not submit.
Josephus who was a historian of the biblical times, had much to say about Jesus, and in Jesus' case, even the Romans made sure that Jesus was dead by piecing him in the side of his chest, then they also made doubly sure that his body couldn't be stolen by placing a massive stone in front of the cave and guards to make sure no one could take him.

Jesus did many Miracles in front of many thousands, where as Mohammad didn't do even one, and there were so many hundreds of people saw Jesus after he died and rose again, so it cant be a lie.
I used to feel that intelligent people couldn't really believe in the Bible, that was until I took a look at bible prophecy which was written 4000 years ago. I see so many, many prophicies being fulfilled in our time, detail upon detail..
Naseem, you have to decide if you want a religion of fear, more fear, hatred, and more hatred, war, and killing, etc, or one of love, tolerance, peace, etc and that is not to say that Christians dont do things wrong, of course they do, we are human and we make mistakes, but we do know that if we are really sorry that our God forgives. I have no doubt that I am going to heaven, because my God loves me, and he loves you also, other wise he wouldn't have died for you...

Naseem, Everyone Else,

Excellent URL article on the Passion of Jesus, based on the historian of the Bible period, Josephus. An in-depth article.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/jesusaccount.html

muhammed was basically a nut case.

from StillBreathing above.

Muhammed was a carefully chosen psychopath. In his growing frustration at the
spreading followers of Christ, Satan appeared to this "chosen one" claiming
to be Gabriel. He filled his head with all sorts of vile perversions of Judaism
and Christianity, and appealed to his megalomaniacal character. In short order,
Satan had undermined the true religions, and entered his own horse in the race.
This "religion" is to the other religions as a goose decoy is to a goose.
It's the perfect tool for human turmoil...
This is my firm belief.

Naseem, God is definitely more forgiving than you are, and more forgiving than Islam is. By reinforcing the notion that Apostacy in Islam is equivalent to military treason, you & the hate-mail author are making it clear that Islam is a fully militant ideology. Thanks for the warning. You contradict yourself by ranting on sharia law, then saying it's "stupid" at the end. The lack of freedom to choose is the basic inherent lack of truth. A "beautiful" "religion" ??? Not. A "religion" of "peace" ??? Not. A religion of deception is more like it. P.S. Billions of people on this planet are thoroughly prepared to fully resist Islam.

Please don't alter e-mails anymore, not even the asterisks for vulgar language.

It isn't just the words, nor the ideas, but also the tone that your correspondent seeks to communicate. Rigor demands that he be heard.

Thank you,

It's interesting how this supporter of the apostate laws compares leaving Islam to a soldier deserting his post. After all, we've been told Islam was supposed to be a Religion of Peace, not a war machine.

I also think it's interesting how he can also claim to be a supporter of democracy, while simultaneously demanding that apostates be punished. Either he doesn't know what democracy is all about, or he's rejected it while simultaneously hiding behind it as a buzzword. And both of those mindsets are very much in evidence in the Muslim world.

I get so furious when I hear Muslim spokespersons claiming how much they support democracy, but no reporter or journalist ever has the intelligence to ask these folks what their conception of "democracy" is--how it works, what rights the NON-MUSLIM citizens have, etc.

Naseem wrote

"Many peoples in Islam & non-christian believers think that he was not cruxified at all...that it was a sub....and that he did not need to rise ...as he was alive all the time...and showed up three days later."

Naseem. Thats sounds exaclty like something Satan would say. Do some history homework. Its no news that your false prophet perverted Gods word by ripping off docterines from the Bible and warping them to fit his own agenda. Christ was crucified and Christ DID rise 3 days later. Any moron knows that Muhammad made up that bullshit u call the Qu'ran as he went through living his disgustin perverted life. Having sex with 9 year olds and killing people who did not agree with him. Any religion that condones mass murder and suicide is not a religion its a CULT! The Qu'ran and the Satanic bible are too much alike for anyone to denie that it is the inspired religion of Satan. Ive seen the things you people do to eachother and your selves. Self mutilation, mutilating your children. Teaching them to hate at such young age. Your religion was built on hate and intolorence. Please PLEASE! get out while you still can before you get recuited to murder yourself for the sake of Allah(satan).

Naseem says;

"Many peoples in Islam & non-christian believers think that he was not cruxified t all...that it was asub..and that he did not need to rise ..as he was alive all the time...and showed up three days later."

Now for starters, it dosen't surprise me that Muslims don't believe in the death and reserrection of Jesus. It's not expected. But for you to throw in non-christian believers, that is beyond the pale. Brahmins, Hindus, Confusians, Shintoes. Neither group is expected to believe in Jesus. For that matter New-agers believe in Maitrieya. A psuedo christ.
Besides it's in the koran that it was Judas not Jesus that was slain on the cross. I don't have my koran handy at this time or else I could qoute the suras word for word. Then there is the sick gospel of Barnabas. He wasn't even a direct disciple of Jesus. Just some Johnny come-lately.
Now for the record there are some church folks that don't believe that Jesus did what He did such as die and rise up from the dead. And that's why they're church folk. They go to church because to them it's a social club.
But make no mistake, Jesus is alive! And it is not by a belief that He lives. Now I know that you want proof of this fact, I have none that you would count as credible. Only my faith. But I know He is alive because of the fact that I'm here today. Besides, 500 people that witnessed Him alive after death can't be wrong. Even the Apostle Thomas doubted He was alive until he touched Him! And if Jesus isn't alive and is indeed dead, where is He buried? Where is His body? We all know where the phalse prophet Muhammad is buried. Thus the burden of proof switches to you to prove that Jesus is dead and not alive as "True Believers" believe!
Islam is nothing like the belief in a risen Savior. A true believer knows that Commandment Law superceedes ALL law. The koran allows for the murder of non-believers where as the Bible instructs believers to clean the dust of that city from our feet. Plus there is the Commandment that tells believers "Thou shalt not kill." Like I said, I do have and own a koran. And I do read it. It's the only way to really compare Allah to Father God, and Jesus, God the Son to Muhammad.
There is no comparison. Allah is so merciful but yet he is impersonal to his believers, his followers. God so loved us that He gave His only begotten son Jesus. All through the Bible you see where God punished His people but also gave them a way out to forgiveness. Back to a relationship with Him. Allah can't do this because he's incased in a glass box in a museum with a cressant carved into his chest.
And also in the koran, even Muhammad said that the Bible was the true Word of God!!! Imagine that? Like I've said, I've studied. As a licensed minister, I have to be aware of other beliefs. I mean if you go to Mosque Maryum to hear "Calypso" Louis FarraConman speak, you'll hear him qoute more from the Bible than from the koran. Such to the point that you would believe that you were in a Baptist church rather than a mosque. He does this to reach the foolish christians that believe the notion that Allah and Father God are one and the same when they are not.
And Big Cat Girl 13106 is right, the risen Christ is the foundation of a believers faith. Jesus never claimed to be the savior of a choice of people, but of ALL PEOPLE! The purpose for His dying was to reconcile all men with Father God. Including Muslims!!! Muhammad would have my head removed if I didn't reject Jesus for Islam. You if you even laughed in his presence, because of his being of low self-esteem would also be slain.
It's obvious that you are a nice, kind-hearted person, but unless you come into the true revelation of the salvation of Jesus and continue following the teachings of Muhammad you'll never come into the "marvelous light!" And it aint Islam.

Dear Naseem - congratulations! You're an apostate.

When you explain details on apostasy you mention\

"discarding a Qur´an, or parts of it, or even a word of it "

Now I'm not your keeper, but I distinctly remember you 'discarding' parts of the Qur'an... not the paper copies of the words, but the actual ideas... you've said you don't believe it word-for-word.

This is a statement of apostasy. The curse of Allah is upon you... but don't worry, that's worth as much as a handful of dirt.

Free yourself~ you're already najis like the rest of us anyway.

I always enjoy Naseems strange and uncanny ability to go from a semi-literate, Ahmadia Pakistani housewife with only a marginal understanding of her religion, to a well written Sunni fully versed in not only the intricacies of English diction, but of taditional Quranic doctorine and traditions of the Hadith and Sunnah as well, in the span of one thread. Just another member of the ILB (Islamic Liars Brigade), although his/her/its transparency dosn't really do much for the cause IMHO.

Anyone who would dare try to reveal the internal workings of Islamic Imperialism's intentions for a global Sharia police state is a threat to their ambitions, and, as in any terrorist tyranny, must be threatened with death to silence them.

Thus, Islam is a military entity, not a religion.

Their "god" is no different than a cosmic Atilla or Hitler.

Same despotic desires, same inhuman methods.

Their treatment of all upcoming apostates will reveal their homicidal heart and finally sour the cowering Western media to their own silence about the true nature of this Killer Kult of the Koran (AKA "MO Kampf").

As Islam's greatest opponent said:

"The truth shall set you free."

Islam is just shaking itself apart. This little movement of apostates and infidels online is exposing the religion for what is truly is, and even Muslims are admitting it, just like our friend Naseem. I cannot speak authoritatively about apostasy, but converts to Islam are leaving, judging by the number of testimonials online. The Dawa is doomed. On to those who were born into mental slavery...

"islam is just shaking itself apart. "never a truer word - the only reason it has survived the past few hundred years is because we , the western powers had other things on our mind .
As the truth about this violent death cult created by a sadistic spoilt brat becomes more and more obvious to the general public it will only be a matter of time before we destroy it for good - these muslims are fundamentaly weak - we are the strong ones and we shall inherit this earth - there will be nothing for the muslims - .

One of the main differences I see between Jesus and ole mo is, Jesus went without. He went without food, comforts and earthly delights. Ole mo took(stole mainly) earthly delights. He took children (Aisha), he stole anything not nailed down. He took many wives (and slaves) so he wouldn't be deprived of sex at any time, day or night.

Jesus preached love your enemies. Ole mo preached KILL.

Jesus preached that God forgives. Ole mo says to submit to allah or die.

Jesus says suffer the little children. Ole mo teaches children to hate. And then marries the youngest of the girls.

I can see a BIG difference in Christianity and islam.

Hi Naseem!

In your response to bigcatgirl you stated that "this is obviously a big thing for you - and requires a huge leap of faith"

You're right - Christs' resurrection IS a very big thing for Christians! If Jesus had not risen from the dead, then He would be just like any other prophet who claimed to be from God.

And the second point you made - about it "requiring a huge leap of faith" - is a very interesting point for me.

I don't want to speak for other Christians, but for me raising Christ from the dead was an effortless task for God, considering the fact that He made man from the dust of the ground; and He made the universe too. Look at the life around you, everything you see is a miracle. The sun; the moon; the stars; creation itself is a miracle.

So in my opinion, raising Christ from the dead was a simple task for God, and it didn't require a huge leap of faith for me to believe in His resurrection; only the faith of a mustard seed.

I'm not trying to convert you, Naseem, because I believe in the freedom to choose one's own faith. But I did want you to know what faith in Christ was like for me, and that it wasn't a hard as you think.

Take care, and many blessing to you and your family!

Kuffir says "I always enjoy Naseems strange and uncanny ability to go from a semi-literate, Ahmadia Pakistani housewife with only a marginal understanding of her religion, to a well written Sunni fully versed in not only the intricacies of English diction".

It always amuses me that so many here are still at this level of trust for Naseem.

You can laugh at the apostapy laws & rules for now. However I predict that within 30 years your childrens will desperately be trying to water down some of these rules to incorpporate them as law within the Amerikan/ISA constitution.

If you are finding it hard to trust me...understand that there will be others who are not like Naseem ...hundreds & thousands of them.

Understand that given time it will matter not if Jesus (pbuh) had risen or not...only the ascedency of Mohd SAW to see Allah SWT will matter.

Teach your childrens to buy only the best quality loudspeakers....the better the quality...the easier to listen the Koran.

Here is a Nasheed starter site(keep the volume high) & enjoy.

http://niqaabi-4ever.blogspot.com/

Also learn that Allah is most merciful...to those who convert...and for this learn the Sahada...As Hugh siad it is easy to learn......

It will become your childrens most important verse to learn....practice....every morning, whilst brushing your teeth.

I find all this effort to show Naseem the 'light' to be disurbing at best. How easily people forget that Naseem is part of the islamic world which stands opposed to Western Civilization and abhors your Judeo/Christian values in just about every way imagineable.

Her job as a soldier in allah's army is to say and do whatever is necessary to further the establishment of the worldwide caliphate which, btw, she's said right here on these very forums on more than one occassion is what she prays for nightly.

Yet.. Willing dupes here on the JW forums so easily and quickly fall for the coy ploys of one of allah's servants and are so easily disarmed. No wonder she believes without a doubt that the foolish infidels will inevitably lose to the cunning of the superior muslims.

Never forget that her fellow co-religionists will cut your head off just after they get done raping your wife and daughter (so you can watch them pull the train). And Naseem will be right there making excuses for their barbaric behaviour done in the name of allah while stating how such actions prove once again that muslims are superior to the worthless infidel dogs.

errr. sorry naseem. my children will NOT beig reading the Qu'ran. They will know and love Jesus Christ as much as i do. So take your Qu'ranic propaganda some were else. Thanks.

-Naseem

I suggest to you that you teach your children to buy some good radiation suits. Fallout's a bitch.

Not to mention the fact that the only conversion that America* will be doing is converting large amounts of sand into glass.

*Note spelling, Nas. You ignorant savages will never take over America if you can't even spell the name right.

(why, I once happened to eavesdrop on an outwardly kindly, twinkly-eyed Pakistani grocer and newspaper vendor in London, always full of smiles and expressions of interest for his customers, including me and other Infidels -- it was quite something to hear him talking, in English, about those very Infidels). Posted by: Hugh

Hugh

It was imprudent of this grocer to back-bite the same infidels in English - normally, one would expect them to switch to Urdu, or Arabic, or Pashtu. This begs the question: Do you pass off as a Muslim easily, as Robert would?

Also, normally, they love to masquerade as leftists to feign having attitudes similar to many infidels, so that their real supremacist attitudes don't come out. I'm surprised that he didn't take this tack.

If you knew Urdu (assuming you don't, which is a big assumption, who knows what you don't know?), it would be amazing what else you could learn about them. It would be like the Seinfeld episode where a number of Korean women mock Frank Costanza, not knowing that he was a Korean war veteran and fluent in Korean. Just don't imitate him in exploding when you recognize what exactly they say - smile to yourself and move on. If you could get those recorded, it would be priceless.

Hi Mahdi -

You're a good man, and I appreciate your concern; but I for one will NEVER convert to Islam. They can have my head, but my heart will forever belong to Jesus Christ. Amen!

I like NoMo's comments from around 11 am. The story of Islam is so important; could it be that there is a Great Deceiver, as there is a God?

If Islam is so desireable, then why do they need to use death threats to retain followers?

Dear Naseem,

I agree with you that our children may be facing the dire prospects of what you describe. It is clear that you think that very soon (as in decades), Islam will gain a very strong hold in this country, and that Sharia will be implemented here. And you certainly look forward to it.

I agree with you on this one. But I hope that my, and my children's head will roll first, before that happens.

You see, when al-Mahdi and Isa that you believe come, they will definitely make sure that happens. The Jizya will be abolished. Jews will be slaughtered. Christians will be beheaded, as Isa "will accept nothing except Islam" from them. I'm sure you are familiar with the ahadith that talks about the signs of the Qiyamah.

And if you care to compare, take a look at this
comparison between al-Mahdi/Isa and the Anti-Christ/False Prophet

"I wonder, however: what 'knoledge' might an apostate from Islam have that he could give to the 'enemy'?"

The email writer sounds like a Scientologist...

Naseem, Mahdi Al-Dajjal,

The truth of the matter is that the FASTEST growing faith is the Christian faith. The greatest amount of growth is the global south. People are coming to faith in Christ because of the message of truth : that Christ suffered, died on the Cross and rose for His love of all of hummanity.

Assalamau-Laikum yaqub,

Your name seems familar...what religion R U?
I can see you are a person of much foresight...a good thinking person.

Peoples here think that they will be able to defend against any eventually. They rely on nucleur wepaons not realising that in 2 decades they will have little deterrence as all will have them.

Also thanks to one George Bush there will be lots of muslims in the US making it very difficult to make efficient decisions.

But Yaqub....don't roll over...come & join Islam....most mechanisms will be in place.

Young man flogged 74 times in public in Iran for drinking
Thu. 20 Apr 2006
Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Apr. 20 – An Iranian man was flogged in public in the city of Karaj, north-west of Tehran, for drinking alcohol, a state-run daily reported on Thursday.

The man, identified only as Afrasiab H., was flogged 74 times on Wednesday morning, the daily Javan wrote.

The sentence was carried out in a public in the district of Mohammad-Shahr.

Afrasiab was also charged with selling alcoholic beverages.

Thousands of young people are flogged in Iran each year on trivial charges that include drinking alcohol, attending mixed-sex parties, and sexual misconduct. Iran’s Judiciary views flogging as the appropriate punishment for combating moral crimes, particularly among the youth. Islamic judges insist on carrying out the punishment in town squares, as "a lesson for all to see”.

This is what Islam does to people. ITS BULLSHIT NASEEM! ALL OF IT!

Bigcatigirl, Ironman Hondo, Naseem:

As a matter of fact, Paul himself, in First Corinthians 15, says that if Jesus Christ did not really rise from the dead, "We [Christians] are of all men the most to be pitied." Indeed, he defines the Gospel (the "Good News") which saves us as the message that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (he was probably thinking of Isaiah 53 at the time)and then conquered death in his real, flesh-and-blood resurrection. Paul also goes so far as to state that if we deny that the resurrection of Christ really took place, we misrepresent God. I urge you to read it for yourself.

Hence, the idea of Jesus "living" only because of my faith and actions or those of the church is preposterous. It is a folly of 19th and early 20th century theological liberalism, and no more. If Jesus remains dead, I promise to apostasize from Christianity. Indeed, the whole witness of the Old and New Testaments tells me that such would be the only honorable course. And this I would do even if there were Christian fanatics out to kill me for doing so.

And, BTW, what would then become of the Qu'ran's own profession to stand in the line of Jesus, who clearly spoke of his own death and resurrection at several points in the Gospels? Would it not say the Qu'ran itself calls a great liar a prophet?

But if Christ indeed died and rose as the NT says, how can the Qur'an be true, when it denies this?

By the way,you cannot find any significant difference between any of the manuscripts of First Corinthians, or among the versions of the New Testament used by various Christian groups in various places at various times.

As for non-Christians holding that Jesus did not die on the cross, there were Roman writers and parts of the Talmud that mention his death. In the latter, there is a place where it says "On the eve of Passover, they hanged Yeshua on a tree." Hence, in the traditions of non-Christians closest to the time and place, there is a profound AGREEMENT with the Christians that Jesus actually did die on the cross.

It seems to me that Muhammad's insistence that Jesus did not die on the cross (and he was writing over six centuries after the event) stems from his total misunderstanding of the Gospel of Grace. As for the Ahmadi belief that Jesus travelled eastwards and died in Srinagar, what evidence, apart from the beliefs of the Panjabi Mahdi exist? I suspect that there is no shred of evidence that antedates Mohammed Ahmed's life and times. The way Naseem phrases her views of Christ's resurrection suggests to me the views of 19th century theological liberals, with whom the Panjabi Mahdi was probably acquainted. He was, after all, a child of 19th century British-ruled India.

Mahdi and Champ:

I, for one, will not give up on Naseem. If she becomes a Christian, she will be neither the first nor last Muslim to do so. I suspect that Mr. Spencer's correspondent's rage might also reflect his "knolege" of a case or two himself. God refused to give up on me when I was a hater of Christ and blasphemer. Hence, I am condemned forever to believe that there are many of God's elect who now appear to be reprobates, except that God has not yet called them.

Perhaps it is the case that the current collision between Islam and a post-Christian America is to shake the false faiths of both to their very foundations. Certainly among many erstwhile liberal Americans, there is a rethinking of their original cultural and religious relativism.

Nas, nas, nas... You really are lost, aren't you? You actually believe that the reason the civilized world hasn't taken away you barbarians' toys yet, is because we can't? You really don't see that the lot of you are just cattle in a range war? Look at the whole Iran situation. Just a game between the US, Russia, and China. The rabid qur'an-banging chimps in the world are just like a zoo exhibit, screeching and flinging feces in their cage, while outside, the humans discuss topics the islamo-primates have no hope of understanding, occasionally flinging in a peanut.
Talks are still going on.
Mohammedans have no say in the matter.
I advise you to start digging. Line the hole with lead.
You're gonna need it.
Especially if the zoo animals try to resist the final decision of the real world powers. Something I have no doubt that the foolish islamist barbarians will try to do.

PS-Get yourself a radiation-shielded Faraday cage for your comp. It would be a shame if the EMP fried your PC and you couldn't keep posting. Your lunacy is amusing.

Sorry mohammedans, the U.S.A. is bringing the Cross into the heart of the middle-east, never to leave again. Your fight is in vain, your mujahdeen is weak, and scared. Your religion is false, just like your profit! Nothing can save you but JESUS CHRIST!

Hi all,

From time to time I have read a few posts which I thought were probably written by a complete moron (No, not my own). This one leaves me no doubt. He starts out with a personal attack. He failed to research the mission of the secret service. He apparently thinks traitors in the US are put to death along with awol soldiers, even though no resent cases can be found. He both defends islam and encourages people not to join it. I can forgive the fact that he was angry and English was obviously not his first language. I don’t understand the need to curse or to attempt an argument without making some type of counter argument. He is undoubtedly proud of his ability to conduct an electronic jihad against a powerful infidel and oblivious to the fact he injured islam more than most of us regular posters. I encourage more muslims to post here, you are really helping us spread your real agenda to the rest of the world, for that we owe you thanks. We can warn others but we can always use proof. You have your idol mohammad, we have the truth.

Look, I just can't help feeling that the perverted genius of Islam lies in the fact one can kill his neighbor, take his goods, rape his wife, and still feel good about oneself, because his neighbor is kafir one is just scoring points for the afterlife, where he'll get 72 virgins even if he gets killed in the process of trying to rip his neighbor off. His neighbor either pays a tax for not being killed but merely fleeced (if the muslims are in a good mood or in need of slaves), or converts and joins his new buddies as they rip off their neighbor who hadn't converted yet. Pretty soon they run out of neighbors who aren't muslim so they go on jihad or emigrate to Europe where there are more kafir neigbors to rip off and more points to score. So the way to stop this destructive cycle is 1) military force 2) repeatedly telling the muslims that if there is a God there is definitely no afterlife for people who engage and endorse in this conduct so there is no way that Muhammad could be his prophet, and even if there is no God, people who engage or endorse in this conduct and philosphy can in no way be considered moral or righteous. So there has to be a robust military AND psychological warfare targets the bizarro and immoral nature of muslim doctrine, both offensively, and defensively, because historically it has been a muslim strategy to offer "tolerant" terms during the first stage of conquest only to tighten the screws once they entered the gates, which is one of the secrets that that muslim dude accuses the apostates of revealing. Coptic Egyptians offered only a half hearted resistance to the muslims because they were persecuted by the eastern emperors for being monophysites - the muslims promised religious tolerance and then basically wiped them out. Same thing with Consantinople, many thought they could get a better deal from the sultans then from the Pope because the sultan promised he would not try to change their liturgy or doctrine like the pope, so that a segment of the Greek public forced their leadership to repudiate a rapproachment they negotiated with the catholic in Rome in return for help against the turks. "Better the sultan than the pope" was the slogan. Again, big mistake, for all its' faults, catholicism was the lesser of two evils. Constantinople survived the sack by the crusaders. Constantinople did not survive the sack by the muslims.

Good Lord, it just makes you wonder what sort of vile emails Robert CAN'T post here.

Hi Kepha -

Sorry that I gave you the impression that I'm giving up on Naseem - because I haven't. What exactly did I state that led you to believe that I had?

buy the way i'm anti terrorist and pro democracy but i love my religion.

Self-deceipt. The 7th Pillar of Islam.

... dont you punish soldiers for going awol?

The 14,238,627th self-admission I've seen this year where Moslems themselves admit that Islam is not a religion.

Islam n

An ideology formed for the express purpose of world takeover, comprising loosely coupled interoperating components of cultism, military, government, jurisprudence, and public relations.

Naseem,

Illiterate, camel-driving, kept-man Mohammed only picked up bits and pieces of Christianity and Judaism in Mecca. It is clear, for any rational thinker, that Mohammed tried to develope a new "religion" from religions he knew little about. As Christianity grew out of Judaism, it took the exact Hebrew Scripture as the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. It would be irrational for Christianity to claim the Hebrew scripture was wrong. The Hebrew Scripture came first.

Not so with Islam, even though Islam claims to be a "final revelation" of scripture. Mohammed made up the Koran over 600 years after the Final events making up the Christian Bible. The writings for the New Testament were written within decades of the crucifixion and surviving manuscripts date from just after 100 AD. There are over 10,000 surviving original manuscripts from Paul's letter and the 4 gospels.

THINK AGAIN: THE KORAN WAS MADE UP OVER 600 YEARS AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION AND YET CLAIMS THE HEBREW AND CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURE IS WRONG!!!!!!!! ACTUALLY, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE KORAN CLAIM THE INJIL (GOSPELS) AND HEBREW SCRIPTURE ARE TRUE, BUT THEN GO ON TO MAKE UP A BUNCH OF WILD CRAP!! MOHAMMED MADE IT UP AS HE WENT. IT'S SO CLEARLY A LIE THAT A CHILD CAN SEE IT!!!

Let's think clearly: Jesus was crucified. It doesn't really even take faith to believe in the crucifixion. It takes faith to believe in the resurrection. Many, many observers: Jewish, Christian, Roman, etc. ensured his death on the cross. The Roman soldiers would have died if they screwed this up. All his apostles went to (historic) violent deaths claiming he was dead and yet came back from the dead and later ascended to heaven. THE APOSTLES WERE THE ONLY ONES WITH THE MOTIVE TO STEAL JESUS' BODY, AND WOULD HAVE KNOWN IF HE HAD NOT DIED (BEING REPLACED) AND RISEN. YET THEY ALL WERE MARTYRED CLAIMING HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION. NO MAN DIES FOR A KNOWN LIE AND CERTAINLY NOT 12 MEN.

I realize the resurrection takes faith, but the crucifixion is historic fact. It goes against all common sense and rationality to believe that such a well-known/publicized figure could be "replaced" before crucifixion. Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, and about 27 other pagan sources confirm the crucifixion of Jesus. They also confirm his disciples claims of resurrection and being Son of God.

ISLAM IS SO FULL OF CRAP. 600 YEARS AFTER ALL THIS, SOME ILLITERATE CAMEL DRIVER (WITH NOT ONE PROPHESY FULFILLED COMPARED WITH OVER 300 FOR JESUS) CLAIMS THAT HE IS RIGHT AND REASON/HISTORY/RATIONALITY/CHRISTIANITY/JUDAISM/ETC. ARE ALL WRONG. MOHAMMED IS WRONG AND TERRORISM, COERSION, DEATH TO APOSTATES, ETC. WILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT ISLAM IS A LIE.

Off-topic, but continuing the discussion regarding proofs of Yeshua's resurrection:

If one chooses to ignore or disbelieve the Bible's account of the resurrection, which is quite reasonable given that this is contrary to all known rules of nature, and if one also chooses to ignore or disbelieve the secular historic documents, there is still one insurmountable proof - the example of the Apostles.

Eleven of the twelve died martyr's deaths, and all suffered shockingly cruel mistreatment, while spreading the message of salvation throughout the world. While it is not uncommon for people to willingly suffer and die for something which they believe is true, no one will suffer and die for something they know to be false.

-Naseem

I suggest to you that you teach your children to buy some good radiation suits. Fallout's a bitch. -Eisenhund

As are hackneyed nuke threats. Dear American freinds, please look up "irony" in Websters. It's pretty obvious where Naseem's coming from. She deserves a medal IMHO.

Eleven of the twelve died martyr's deaths, and all suffered shockingly cruel mistreatment, while spreading the message of salvation...

Equivalency Moment!

Mohammed's acolytes, how did they fare? Well, according to Tabari and all other historians, they went on an orgy of military and governmental conquest, capturing breathtaking amounts of territory with startling rapidity.

And, in so doing, the Religion of Peach left a fetid trail of theft, oppression, rape, robbery, sex slavery, slavery, murder, head chopping, pedophilia, terrorism, fraud, and all manner of other koranic ideals, fully realized, in their wake.

Doctrine of equivancy. Karl Marx. Dastisticks. Ahistoricism. Fictive Reality. Marshall McLuhan. Petrodollars. Jihad.

Allahwho?

-Animus

First, go look up "friends" in the dictionary.

Second, if you are so sure she's being ironic, go pin the medal on yourself.

Sorry we're not all as wise as you. Smug putzes such as yourself may want to think that everyone who says that they're going to force their ideology down your throat are just trying to be clever. Keep telling yourself that when her jihadi brethren detonate a car on your street.

Best pull your head out of your a.. before you criticize others. I'm sure you're immensely brilliant in your own little head, boy. However, you might want to consider saving your defense for someone who deserves it. Smarter people than you believe Naseem's serious.

Animus,

Having read the "Posted by: Naseem" show for months (or is it years?), my impression is that "Naseem"'s style is generally quite straightforward, rather than ironic.

"Naseem"'s purpose here is to "witness": Both to spread the (putrid) message of islam, and to observe those who disagree with islam. By doing this, "Naseem" imagines itself to gain what one might call "double-mitzvah-brownie-points" with its imagined object of worship.

"Naseem" occasionally displays anger (refers to other posters as "Lund". Heh.), and is only rarely sarcastic -- in an obviously insulting fashion. The "Amrika" and ISA (that would be the "islamic states of amerika") stuff are small jibes, but also part of the "witnessing".

Subtle irony is not typical of "Naseem", although "Naseem" generally responds in-kind to insult or ingratiation.

No medal from me. Nope. No medal from me.

The rotten nature of religion can be easily seen by just watching religion as it goes about its business. Nothing religion does matters. Nothing religion says proves to be of any great importance, and whatever good there is in religion is buried at the bottom of the swamp of unrighteousness.

Stranger;

You are right about religion. Many a war has started because of it. Religion is nothing more than a money making machine. That is why Jesus had such a hard time with the religious leaders of His day. Jesus hated religion as much as any knowledgable person on the subject! Believe it or not Stranger, you and Jesus view religion the same way. Nothing goood has ever come from religion. And never will.

Eisenhund - constant nuke threats and personal insults are really high brow, good show. I don't doubt Naseem's being genuine. But I also get the impression she's listening to herself. Unlike some. All I meant to say is that I feel Naseem's already on our side, as far as she is safely able to let on. Keep up the hissy fits, but some of us are grateful for her frankness. Schmuck.

Animus - you're deluding yourself if you think Naseem is about anything but shar'ia and the caliphate.

The group we know as Naseem isn't internally consistent in what it says, how it says it and what it stands for. Naseem is a poseur, dude, of the highest caliber....

hey Naseem:

you're an apostate! congratulations.
You indicate killing a person because they leave Islam is 'stupid' and needs to change...

Your example for all men to follow for all times said:
If someone leaves his religion (Islam) kill him.

You wrote:

Islam is a beaqutiful religion...why would you want to leave it... ( I also wonder where I stand ?) having said that ....to impose the death penalty for leaving it absolutely stupid...and needs to change.

You call Mohammed 'absolutely stupid'. This disrespect is apostasy and is worthy of Death.

You also wrote the death penalty 'needs to change'
Are you not aware that innovation in Islam is a grave sin? From the mouth of Mohammed himself.

You call for innovation and attempt to cause mischief in the land - the penalty for which is:
5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

Okay Naseem - it's all or nothing. You can't innovate and remove the death penalty for apostacy. Mohammed commanded it!

Free yourself.

Naseem, I clicked on your links and began to see things as a Muslim:

Mohammed (PBUH) was the only PERFECT human being to ever walk the Earth. Why else would all-knowing Allah have chosen only him to be the final (most important) messenger?

The Noble Qu'ran is the only PERFECT book; containing all you need to know in life, for now and eternity. Just consider its divine source for proof of its perfection.

Logically then, Islam is the only PERFECT religion.

Why would any sane, intelligent person want to mock PERFECTION?...unless they were possesed by Shaitan and thus, evil. Apostates deserve their punishment as specified by the Noble Qu'ran, to prevent the spread of this evil. Anyone who disagrees is inadvertantly showing their ignorant, evil nature as well and can join the other Apostates in the fires of Hell.

Is that about right, Naseem?

-Animus

Oh, that really stings! I so need the respect of condescending little hypocrites.

At least I'm honest and have walked the walk, not like some smirking sophist such as yourself. Sorry we can't all be as perfect as you. Guess it was all that time spent in the field so snotty children could sit around sipping lattes jacking their jaws, feeling superior. I'm sure if the real fight comes, we can count on warriors such as yourself to sneer them to death.

Just another little punk flexing his internet muscles.
Talk is cheap, jackass.

Peoples, astopy is important in christianity too.

"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus' return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the Old Testament God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament the epistles warn us about not falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat.

Islam learns from the "more advanced" religion to ensure similar mistakes are not made.

Allah is you creator...it is our duty not to foret him. Please do not turn away from Allah.

Naseem,

I do follow God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity.

Naseem,

Apostasy is a sin that can be forgiven.

-Naseem

Difference is, in Christianity, one has the ability up to and including the second that G.D decides to take him or her to accept or reject him.

No one has the right to interfere with that by killing an apostate. That is an usurpation of G.D's authority. Whether or not someone wants to follow any deity in whatever way is between that person and their conscience.

It is not my business, it is not your business.
It is only the individual's business. He or she is the one who has to pay if mistaken.

Got a question for those who are interested in answering, Naseem included.

If the Quran is " noble and perfect " why is the Holy Bible the number one ( # 1 ) best seller of all time?

Have a wonderful weekend folks.

Gentlemen - there are ladies present, and try to remember who the real enemy is. Enough already.

Dear Naseem,

Peace to you.

I can see you are a person of much foresight...a good thinking person.

Thank you. That is because I have learnt a lot about Islam for the past ... let me count ... more than 15 years.

Peoples here think that they will be able to defend against any eventually. They rely on nucleur wepaons not realising that in 2 decades they will have little deterrence as all will have them.

Everyone can think what they want to think. Some are true, some not. In the same way that you may be right about some things, and wrong in others. I respect what each one thinks, even if I disagree with them.

Also thanks to one George Bush there will be lots of muslims in the US making it very difficult to make efficient decisions.

Yes, indeed.

But Yaqub....don't roll over...come & join Islam....most mechanisms will be in place.

I almost, more than 15 years ago. But the more I learnt about Islam, the more I realize it is not what it claims to be. Jesus said : “By their fruits you will know them.” (Matthew 7:16, 20). Islam has shown its fruits, and I certainly can recognize it.

No, not "roll over". Rather, I recognize that my head may have to roll under Islam's Savior of the world, al-Mahdi, and his companion, Isa. You see, it is your prophet who said that, and many Muslims take it very seriously, these two persons will wage jihad against the rest of the world, and will massacre the Jews and the Christians, and who knows who else. As an Ahmadi, you may perhaps also realize that your fate may not even be better than the other kafirs like me.

yaqub - I admire your courage.