And we can't have the Taliban return, you see. That would mean the return of Sharia to Afghanistan. And that would mean that the freedom of conscience would be restricted -- why, converts from, say, Islam to Christianity might even be in danger of death!
What's that? Afghanistan is a Sharia state now? Converts are in danger of death now? What are you, some kind of Bush-hater?
From AP, with thanks to Shinolite:
KABUL, Afghanistan - Britain's defense secretary warned on Sunday that any let up on militants could see the toppled Taliban regime and al-Qaida regain power in Afghanistan....The warning followed a spike in bombings and shootings targeting coalition troops, Afghan forces and often ordinary locals as the Taliban apparently have made good on threats to increase attacks during the warmer spring and summer months.
"The greatest danger of all for the people of Afghanistan and the people of the United Kingdom would be if Afghanistan ever again came under the rule of a Taliban regime prepared to protect al-Qaida or terrorist groups," Reid told reporters in the capital.
And we can't have the Taliban return, you see. That would mean the return of Sharia to Afghanistan. And that would mean that the freedom of conscience would be restricted -- why, converts from, say, Islam to Christianity might even be in danger of death!
What's that? Afghanistan is a Sharia state now? Converts are in danger of death now? What are you, some kind of Bush-hater?
LOL. Worse yet, it is so at taxpayer expense.
I'm beginning to think the whole thing was a PR exercise after 9/11, you know, kick some ass, and the people will think he did something. But in reality, nothing was really accomplished. Those Taliban scumbags survived, went back to their caves, waited it out, and now are back again.
Just a PR exercise.
Bush means well, but he such a neophyte at understanding the world, that he can't possibly understand how BAD these people are. He is too much of a good-hearted Christian to really grasp the scope of what we're supposed to be fighting. In that sense, he is closer to Jimmy Carter than Churchill.
We need a Machiavellian character for this job.
I know a few us here at jihadwatch are up for the job. I know I am. But there is something I say at times like this:
The inherent flaw in the premise of democracy is that it culls its leaders from the ranks of a popularity contest. Regrettable as it is, for popularity contests rarely produce men fit for the job at hand.
The man that could solve this threat to our civilization could never get elected in the western world. There's the rub. And, indeed, those are the seeds to the demise of democracy in the 21st century. It could not produce men that could save it.
Definitely an offshoot of the larger preoccupation with Al Qaeda in the "War on Terror."
At least in part, it must be a symptom of our cultural obsession with "quick fixes" to think that if we just get rid of the Taliban, or Al Qaeda, or the next group, or the next bad guy, all of this jihad-related unpleasantness will go away.
Only, it won't.
The only thing that has changed in Afghanistan is the face of the rulers, and a milder gentler form of Islamism.
When they hang people in public they only leave the bodies on display for 15 minutes and they aren't shooting women or cutting men's throats in the soccer stadium (yet).
From the Yale Daily News Afghan Woman's Rights Advocates blast Yale for Admitting Taliban Spokesmen But of course he had to get a Visa and be sponsored by the Bush backed regime.
The more things change the more they remain the same.
Afghanistan an Islamic Nation
The Afghanistan Draft Constitution signed, sealed and approved by your administration and the neocons.
Compare the above to the Taliban Constitution
Compare the above Constitutions to The Iranian Constitution
Concerns about human rights violations under Karzai are certainly legitimate. But it is dismaying to me that Robert, Hugh and others here are so eager to equate Afghanistan today with the Taliban.
Women are represented in parliament, the cabinet, and are working in many professions; girls attend school (except where the Taliban prevent them); recreation such as movie-watching and kite-flying are now legal;...and most important of all, Al Qaeda is no longer offered state-sponsored sanctuary.
And as deplorable as the treatment of Abdul Rahman was, he WASN'T executed the way he most certainly would have been had the Taliban still been in power.
There may be alot of work to be done in Afghanistan, but is giving up and abandoning it to the Taliban the answer?
Reminds me of a team of surgeons successfully removing a malignant tumour only to lose the patient to secondary cancers. The only real cure lies in gene therapy. A rewriting of the genetic code (located within the koran).
Taliban returning??? Of course it will return. There are plenty of peace loving Muslims who want their 72 virgins in the sky.
Why the hell are we fighting a war, without recognising who the enemy is?? How on earth do our stupid politicians think that they can win this "war on terror" without admitting what it is that we are fighting???
I feel sorry for our soldiers.
Afghanistan receives so much help from European countries, for them it would be easy to require certain changes in return, like strenghtening the rights of women, e.g. banning forced marriages or raising the marriage age for girls. I don't know whether they just don't see that opportunity or if they just don't care. Not even the taliban can argue against money for development.
I feel sorry for the victims of your soldiers, lucky, everywhere in the world.
Nariz: "But of course he had to get a Visa and be sponsored by the Bush backed regime."
What kind of visa was it Nariz? A student visa? How do you blame the "Bush-backed" regime here instead of Yale itself and its liberal sensibilities?
from your link: "She criticized the U.S. government for pursuing its own strategic interests in the region while supporting fundamentalist warlords who make Afghanistan "a hell for its people.""
Who the hell is there in Afghanistan besides warlords and Taliban? Is there some huge majority of real moderate Muslim liberal democrats we could have supported but didn't? Some huge majority of moderate Muslims we could have handed over security to and gotten the hell out of Dodge so as not to have to endure endless cries of "occupation" from the left as well as the Muslim world, as has happened in Iraq? I think I'm beginning to get a real sense here for how reality gets twisted to constantly indict not only America, but conservative American administrations in particular.
Go, Caroline!
OT (?) rant:
Islam
is
a
pain
in
the
....and my blog is STILL down, btw. No word from Yahoo yet exactly as to why, but it is either of two things:
1) I somehow managed to go over my substantial disk quota
2) I suddenly was deemed "breaking" with Yahoo webhosting policies.
If it turns out to be #2, Yahoo had better have good lawyers.
The Infidel forces do not have to be in Afghanistan to control Afghanistan. The British controlled India, when its population was several hundred million, with less than 20,000 soldiers, and 2000 civil servants. That was it.
Afghanistan presents the usual collection of warring tribes and ethnic groups. The Taliban had told the Shi'a Hazara that they would all be killed, and made a good-faith effort to carryout that pledge until the bad old Americans came along and stopped it by getting rid of the Taliban. It is one thing to have gone in to clean up things initially. That does not mean there should be a long-term expensive commmitemnt by Infidels, to any Muslim state or people. It makes no sense. On the cheap, constantly playing on the divisions and resentments, and giving small amounts -- but just the right amount -- to those who are playing us even as we play them -- would be far less taxing, and far less depleting of Western morale at a time when attention should focus not on the wellbeing of Muslims, and certainly not on the mirage of winning "hearts and minds" in the Muslim world (as one Republican congressman, Pete Hoekstra, said today on 60 Minutes it was our duty to do --as if, given the clear tenets of Islam, Muslim hearts and minds could ever be won by Infidels). No, we should concentrate on preventing the islamization, through Da'wa, demographic conquest, and spreading dhimmitude, of our own societies, beginning with the countries of Western Europe.
Those who think that we should continue to be stuck to the Iraq tarbaby because "we just can't leave" or "we owe it to them to stay" or "we can't leave this mess" should be told, firmly, that 1) oh yes we can and 2) oh no we don't --we got rid of a murderous regime that had been in place for 35 years and was prepared to rule for another 35; we rebuilt this and that and this; we've done quite enough and 3) the "mess" is the result of two things: 1350 years of Sunni persecution of Shi'a, and 1350 years of Arab mistreatment of non-Arabs even if Muslims. That is not our problem; we did not cause it; we tried to do everything possible to avert it. It is the problem of Kurds and Arabs, of Sunni and Shi'a. They will sort it out, or they won't. Their problem. And if they don't sort it out, it is hard to see how the result of that could do anything but help the Infidels, and hurt the camp of Islam.
And those who think that somehow, just because Al Qaeda campswere in Afghanistan when no one was looking, that now that everyone in the Western world is looking, and monitoring, and scheming, that somehow the situation as before could return with no one the wiser and that is why Western troops have to remain there -- that's just idiotic. That makes no sense.
You're correct, Hugh. They don't have to remain in Afghanistan and Iraq (except for a couple of supply and air bases perhaps) -- they DO need to march over into Iran and start making a regime change and dismantling bombs, missiles and nuclear refineries. When that's done, then I say bring them home, throw flowers over them and then put them on the borders.
Probably none of this is going to happen though. We aren't being lead by men and women of character, we're being enslaved by men and women who think they govern to get rich.
hooligangirl - pity you don't feel the same level of "sorry" for the victims of Islam. They are not victims of our soldiers, but rather of the religion they follow, and the consequences it brings. They worship the old Arabian crescent moon god of war, and they get war in return. It’s not our soldiers to blame hooligangirl. Maybe they are not your soldiers, maybe you are a good little Muslim/Apologist.
As with most wars - its the politicians who caused it (clerics in this case) - and its the soldiers who pay for it in blood.
hooligangirl - I don't feel sorry for the true Muslims they kill, who would gladly cut off my balls – oh, and my head, rape my wife and little girl, and in general, make my infidel suburb a mini Armenian genocide all over again.
The only sorry I feel for the "victims" of our soldiers, is that they were Islamic, and they died and lived an Islamic life.
"I feel sorry for the victims of your soldiers, lucky, everywhere in the world."
-hooligangirl at April 23, 2006 08:59 PM
And from which country would you hail, troll? Are you another one of these idiots for whom we need a voluntary "do not defend" list?
Just sign your name, and the soldiers you denigrate need not risk their lives fighting for you?
I doubt it.
Coddled little cowards of your ilk think you can judge those who stand between you and the forces who would slaughter or enslave you.
Too damned dense to realize that its because of those same soldiers that you can run your mouth.
"Not even the taliban can argue against money for development. "
They don't have to - our peace loving "allies" the Saudi's give them plenty, as does Iran and all the other "victims" of this "war on terror" that you pity so much.
haha hugh and foehammer,
I can't believe you're serious. Well, I say, bring them home and jail them for their atrocities, they don't deserve any flowers, rather a few years in someone's dungeons. The USA have brought so much misery, death and suffering to iraq and afghanistan that it's high time they leave. Kick them out I say. Shame on them.
You want a piece of me, little girl? I'm not as polite as Hugh.
lucky, I do feel pity for the victims of islam, i.e. the muslimahs. We have huge problems with forced marriages and "honor" killings here in Germany (therefore I found Eisenhund's name quite funny), and the attitude towards women worries me a lot. But still, I considered the atrocities of the US troops horrible, and it's sad you don't feel any pity for the thousands of men, women and children they murdered and probably enjoyed it.
I hope you don't teach your little girl the hatred you're preaching here. She deserves to learn that God loves everyone.
HUGH: "They will sort it out, or they won't. Their problem. And if they don't sort it out, it is hard to see how the result of that could do anything but help the Infidels, and hurt the camp of Islam."
And yet you're prepared to go shed infidel blood in Dhofar, Sudan to prevent Muslim-on-Muslim violence. Why is it any different?
HUGH: "And those who think that somehow, just because Al Qaeda campswere in Afghanistan when no one was looking, that now that everyone in the Western world is looking, and monitoring, and scheming, that somehow the situation as before could return with no one the wiser and that is why Western troops have to remain there -- that's just idiotic."
The implication here is that we can determine the course of events in Afghanistan (or Iraq for that matter) after a withdrawal. This doesn't square with realities on the ground in theatre...and it doesn't square with the mood of the American people, who will have absolutely no appetite to re-involve ourselves in Iraq or Afghanistan, particulatly after the failure that walking away would entail (and sir, whether or not you want to recognize it as failure, our enemies, our allies, our media and everyone else most surely will).
Hugh, I have less problems with the elements of your arguments that dovetail with those of the Left, that shedding American blood to try and civilize the Muslim world is just not worth the effort. But the notion that we can leave, watch these countries descend into chaos, and somehow prevent the emergence of alternative regimes working in the service of global jihad....this is what one could easily describe as "idiotic."
Not trying to be contrarian. Not trying to be disrespectful. Not trying to reconjure old disputes. Just offering an alternate view that needs to be expressed on these pages.
There is no hatred here, Hooligan. It's called KNOWLEDGE. You should try investing time in learning some instead of spitting useless vitriol at your intellectual betters.
I don't want to make you cry, so just go read a book.
hooligangirl you represent the ugly left in what ever country and rock you live under. l listened to a young women before 9-11, how she had to leave Afganistan, because she would be put to death for teaching girls to read. it might only seem a little better in Afganistan, but hey its only a start. l dont listen to the pc leftist media, as they want the US and WEst to win. you think all those holes where mass graves in Sadam's presidency was ok? those rape rooms, and the real torture in saddam's jails happened everyday. the women's heads blown off in soccer fields in afganistan, holligangirl you are so foolish. If you think the U.S. is so bad, why do so many want to move to the USA? why do so many just want a chance to get into this country.
and hooligangirl if you live in a western country, please move your carcass to a muslim country, and tell us how it feels.
Too late, foe, I'm in tears already.
A German talking about soldiers committing "atrocities"! Now that's rich!
Under how many years of Soviet rule did you live, girlie? Oh that's right, the Warsaw Pact was shaking in fear from the big, bad, postwar German Army.
What a yutz. Crawl back under your rock.
sorry l meant to say, the leftist media is invested in the US/West to lose! they are never for the good ness of the US! l guess reading the garbage of hooligangirl, just realized she is a young uneducated person.. or just plain ignorant, needs to open her/his eyes.. you never know who is behind this name of hooligangirl..what ever its needs to evolve into a thinking human being.
This is for the enemies of the United States, her soldiers and her people, for all those closet jihadists and the Dhimmis inbreds that support them:
http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/42/villagevoice_sam.jpg
Eisenhund..rich of a German speaking up for human rights?? hmmm, strange person you are
foehammer, the homepage of disneyland?? ;-) I wasn't aware I was chatting with little children.
She is a Leftist. Why she is here, I don't know.
But I wish I could throw her to the Taliban. They would enjoy her. Here's my profile based on her views and her nickname:
A feminist, maybe even a lesbian, anti-establishment, with tattoos and body piercings, short, messy hair, and a navel ring, perhaps a lower lip ring, too. She goes to anti-war rallies and thinks that a toilet in a museum is good modern art. Probably an "anti-poverty" demonstrator, too. Likes to throw things in anger at anything deemed right wing, like BMWs, the police, and Christian churches. Listens to punk music. Smokes. Does not drive. Take the bus to rallies, or gets a lift from friends. Cares not about any cause except Left wing politics and grunge music. Wears black nail polish. Hasn't been laid in months or more. Perfers women to men.
I don't smoke, thinker.
LOL, Okay I got one point wrong.
hoolgingirl is most likely from a middle class home, living off her parents. does not work much if at all, therefore does not pay taxes, pay any bills to keep her sorry life going. sponges off people and has time to go to her protests. she just needs to find herself..
No.
Rich for someone making accusations of "atrocities" with nothing to back them up.
Rich for someone from a country relatively fresh from murdering 12 million people.
I thank my lucky stars that I'm strange to you. I'd hate to think that you and I were anything alike.
lulu, nope, not even worth a laugh, only stupid stupid, probably a more accurate description of your mum than of me. Even Eisenhund is smarter than you and that says something, even though he or she doesn't seem to realize they use a german name and obviously hates reading papers.
probably a more accurate description of your mum than of me - Hooligangirl
That's what international diplomacy needs-- more "Your Mom" jokes!
It is maddening, and time-wasting, that a particular poster above -- who could so easily simply google "Posted by Hugh" and "Darfur" and find yet again what he now claims he needs to have explained how one can possibly advocate withdrawal from Iraq and at the same time an American entry into the Sudan, as if these two things are completely incompatible. But they are not incompatible. Both the withdrawal from tarbaby Iraq, and the entry into the Sudan, take as their aim the weakening of the strength, and the appeal, of Islam. There is no contradiction. In both cases the American government is losing an opportunity. In Iraq it is losing an opportunity presented by sectarian and ethnic fissures -- or at least delaying their full appearance, and the damage they may wreak on the camp of Islam. And in the Sudan, it is losing an opportunity to visibly protect black Africans, to focus attention on Arab Muslims mistreating non-Arab Muslims and on Islam as a vehicle for Arab supremacism (a point that must be made constantly to the 3/4 of the world's Muslims who are not Arabs though they are adherents of the Arab national religion), and to push back the boundaries of Dar al-islam in a way that will demoralize Muslims, and hearten Christians, in black Africa (who since the Biafran betrayal, could stand some heartening).
The difference is that the best outcome for us in Iraq is that the ethnic and sectarian hostilities continue and widen, so that not only in Iraq, but elsewhere in the Muslim world the Sunnis and Shi'a are drawn into the conflict -- especially that both Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two chief beneficiaries of the removal of Saddam Hussein, are forced to invest men, materiel, money, and attentin in helping their respective co-religionists in Iraq. And one hopes that Suni-Shi'a relations in Lebanon (and Hezbollah volunteers sent to Iraq), in Bahrain, Kuwait, Yemen, Pakistan, and eastern Saudi Arabia, will also be affected. And if the Kurds can be helped to stave off the Arabs, that should be taken in by other non-Arabs, beginning with the Berbers in the Kabyle region of Algeria, and in France.
In the Sudan, Egypt, the Arab League, and just now Bin Laden, have fully supported the Sudanese government in its deliberate campaign of mass murder. We can continue to do nothing, or we can take advantage of all those nicholas-kristofs and kennedy-school professors-of-the-practice-of-human-rights (what won't they think of next?) who have been clamoring for Western invervention, the purest form of unselfish humanitarianism -- which also happens to be a way to deal a great blow to Arab Muslim aggression against black Africa. and at the same time offer tangible support black African Christians (and that could also have consequences for black populations in the West being targetted for campaigns of Da'wa) who would welcome such a demonstration of force.
In Iraq, we are misallocating resources, and attempting to create the very outcome -- a stable nation-state, where Sunnis and Shi'a Arabs, and Arabs and Kurds, all get along -- that prevents us from exploiting those ethnic and sectarian fissures.
Darfur is completely different. There, by taking the side of the non-Arab, black African (nominal) Muslims, and of the Christian and animist black Africans in the south, and seizing the territory for a referndum on independnece, we would be weakening Islam.
Withdrawal from Iraq of 140,000 troops, and the entry of, say, 5,000 well-armed American troops (greeted not by sullen Iraqis, but by unfeignedly welcoming black Africans) -- there is no contradiction there. In one case, withdrawal will weaken Islam. In the other case, entry (with just a few thousand troops) will weaken Islam.
And what, after all, can the Arab League, can the U.N. do? Can they protest as finally the Americans go in to stop genocide? That will not look good. It will not be good for Islam's image as those apoplectic Arab ambassadors insist that the Khartoum Arab Muslims have a divine right to set the Janjaweed on black Africans? Not even The New Duranty Times will swallow that. supported by our air force and ships off the Sudanese c and Arabs get along
In Darfur, we are missing the change. . Iraq requires 140,000 American soldiers, and they are there to avert, not
Hooligangirl,
I guess I fall into your category of those who now belong in prison for serving our country.
Questions:
I suppose you have first hand knowledge that most of us have been targeting civilians (vs. building schools and creating infrastructure while defending against ruthless barbarians). I suppose you "know" we are morally equivalent to those who directly target civilian women and children. With no qualms about beheading women "collaborators" and infidels. Do you know the turmoil of being a faithful Christian and yet facing/killing those who will kill you? Do you honestly believe most have some sick desire to kill a civilian? Of course, you have all that "first hand" knowledge of what Americans are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Just out of curiousity: Have you ever sacrificed for the sake of your nation? Any kind of sacrifice, not necessarily leaving a spouse and children for over a year (not knowing if you will return)? Have you seen a beheaded body lying in the street while you are trying to help civilians rebuild their lives? Have you been to an Islamic Nation for any length of time?
My guess is that you are a spoiled rotten brat who will only remain free and alive by the sacrifice of others. You have never sacrificed for a higher cause and secretly resent those who do. You will enjoy your freedom to call for the jailing of soldiers only because they bring your ultimate freedom of expression.
I know you will say you are not American, but it doesn't really matter. If you are enjoying Western freedoms, understand that those freedoms are on a thread. If there weren't men willing to fight and kill, those freedoms would already be toast and you would be in a Burka.
I agree with Cornelius on this issue, particularly in the case of Afghanistan. The conquest of Afghanistan, and the replacement of the Taliban with a less odious regime, was both morally and strategically the correct course of action. We should have used more ground troops, accepted that the losses would be greater, and made a better effort of getting Bin Laden and the leaders, but I must admit it is easy to be cavalier with American lives when one is not the President. We have several advantages in Afghanistan, including our NATO allies are in it in meaningful numbers, the Afghans have been remarkably cooperative compared to the Iraqis and the fence-sitters around the world are not giving us such a hard time about the whole thing (and let's face it that matters when the world looks at you because you are America the Beautiful).
It gets more muddied in the case of Iraq. But if we leave there, what is to stop the people we are fighting in Iraq from going to Afghanistan? Iran would be quite happy to oblige their safe transit, no doubt.
hooligangirl, how does being German and hates reading papers make any sense. you need to read Robert Spencer's book real fast,(we can give a list of other books for your education). are you alergic to truth, you spout off without thinking.
Yes, because you are full of crap, I must not read the papers. Sterling logic, little girl. And we all know everything printed, especially in leftist German "news" rags must be true.
Yup, got me there.
And yes, I know the name is German. I'm also smart enough to know that the German language did not attempt to exterminate all the Jews in Europe. That would be the good German people such as yourself. Couldn't do it in the last century, so support the mohammedans in this one.
Good on ya.
Hugh when US solders left Vietnam, it created the killing fields of Cambodia, with millions killled. that war was lost by the media and politicians. afganishtan is now not harbouring taliban and bin laden at will. they do attack in spurts, but you of all historians know the stragedy for success is not short term. WW2 you never had a whole opposition party with continued attacks on the GOP, and media intent on making sure nothing comes out positive.
the country was united for a short time after 9-11, but now the liberals are blind again, cannot identify the enemy, and your are still down on the GOP as they have not had 100percent right on the enemy. they have it partcially correct, we dont know how much they do know, but undestand in the PC enviroment its a death knell to say the whole truth.
hello,
I believe there are us troops who are good people and don't enjoy hurting others. On the other hand I get angry when right wingers and members of the military claim those atrocities never happened OR make jokes about the victims. The usa behaved like animals there, although some troops might have meant well. But it appalls me to see that many americans seem to think they have the right to play world police and that human rights don't count for them, that the aim of finding "terrorists" stands above all, even people's lives. If human rights are invalid in that situation, when should they be adhered to? In peace? No big deal. The horrible thing is that it was not only a few bad apples, but that it's common US practice to mistreat and torture suspects. Rumsfeld and Bush (even Rice) supported that mistreatment, and major general Geoffrey Miller was not even charged. Although he should be locked away forever, that bastard.
I'm not a spoiled brat, I'm an adult woman who lives completely on her own, and it seems very likely to me that I work more hours a week than you.
But I know some people can't bear the truth and nearly suffocate of their patriotism, they'll just insult others who disagree with them. Or murder them.
hooligangirl - my kids will know the difference between right and wrong, and that includes morals. They will learn that there are absolutes, something you Euro's are going to learn the hard way (again). My country, Australia, and the USA, have not murdered "thousands" of innocents as you put it. They wear uniforms, follow rules. Yes innocents die in war. As a Eurarabian of all people, you should know that (how many world wars has Europe now caused??).
Again, your attempts at moral equivalence is pathetic. I mean who was supplying Iraq with deadly weapons? (France/Germany in exchange for oil). The USA actually doesn't need the oil in the ME (they do need it to prop up their dollar though, as they have no gold reserves backing their currency, only worldwide demand for US dollars via oil exchange)
You Euroarabians seem so "the same". Your countries greedily rely on USA military security while you preach back at the States "books not bombs". If it weren’t for the "evil" USA your precious little Germany would have been/and still be part of the Soviet empire, as would France. Maybe the US should have withdrawn after WW2, they would have saved themselves zillions of dollars, and missed all the ingratitude from France and Germany. At least then you could have lived in a leftist paradise, Soviet Russia.
You Euroarabians with your liberal notions have already caused two world wars, countless deaths and suffering, only to have countries such as the USA and Australia bring order to your nations. And you accuse us of being murderers? Tell that to 6million Jews in the afterlife, oh and 20million+ Russians and Serbs, and the millions of your own countrymen who died in Europe's wars.
And now? You Eurabians are on the verge of causing World War Three. Why? Well you tell me hooligangirl, what is going to happen in Eurarabia when the Muslims reach critical mass in Euroarabia? Who are you indigenous Euro's going to call upon in your pious voice to save you? No doubt the gun loving, Great Satan USA - for the third time! And you know what? I hope that the USA (and Australia) does not send ANY troops to the Euroarabian nation. After all we don't want our soldiers to cause any "victims" do we? I also hope we close our borders to you liberal loving Euro's. I don't want you over here ruining my country.
Then again, looking at the infidel birth rate of the lefty/liberal nations in Europe like Germany and France, well its all a question of 30 years plus demographics really. Have you worked out which way is Mecca yet??
That's what international diplomacy needs-- more "Your Mom" jokes! - posted by me in response to Hooligangirl's response to Lulu, above
A followup, since this thread has already plunged to a certain level of absurdity:
Ah, much better.
if it hadn't been for the usa, we germans would be the world super power. hmm fanx. lol
She talks down American troops,cause she is mad that America whooped up on germany TWICE.
well, we'll kick your ass at the world cup then. We'll have our wooden clubs ready.
There's nothing muddy about any of it -- IF the flanks of Iran are used for what they should be used for -- and that's invasion of the REAL target.
However, if Bush fails to act, fails to use the strategic positioning paid for in American lives, then I will (and I have said this before), seek his impeachment myself. He'd better not continue to fail us in this conflict. Talk is cheap. I want safe BORDERS and a forthright discussion of Islam for what it is, and that's a National Security threat.
And I have to cheer hello123 now for putting things into perspective for the hooligan that's popped in here tonight. Nothing better than to have someone that's actually experienced the events under discussion put in a few words and I hope that we start to have more military men and women posting here.
If anyone can give me good reasons to NOT attack Iran, I'd like to hear them.
lol, this is so funny, and so predictable, anyone who speaks up for human rights and dares critizing the US troops for their terrible crimes must be a moronic, leftist, ill-informed dunghead, who just hates the USA and has no point anyway.
That is so arrogant and self-righteous, you should eat humble pie instead of backing up your retarded president.
if it was not for President Reagan, this hooligangirl would be speaking Russian. but then in her old age, she will be in a burga, and treated worse than cattle! goodbye Germany, hello euroarabia!
if it hadn't been for the usa, we germans would be the world super power.
Ah, so a Nazi sympathizer comes here trying to tell us of morality? I grew up with Jewish friends. I suppose you're an anti-semite also, eh? It seems to be the trend in Europe I hear. But, of course, I'm not supposed to think that Islam has anything to do with that.
Speaking of which, didn't Hitler have turban-wearers in some of his SS units...I do seem to recall...
if the us dares attack them, the UN will sever relations with the USA I hope
good,get em out
*yawn*
You still yammering, idiotgirl?
LOL...the U.N. might sever relations with the U.S.A.?
We brought them into the world, and we can take them back out.
Don't do us any favors -- the U.N. is so Islamofascistly tainted and bias it's beyond the pale.
I'm not a nazi-sympathiser, I just see no reason why I should be grateful to the usa. It was Bush's grandpa, Prescott Bush after all, who financed the SS with his union bank. Without the usa, no nazis. no taliban. no hussein. Does that ring a bell, huh?
Wait until my blog is back online and you get to see the mapping project I've been working on -- over time I think it's going to really make a clear picture of just how deep of a mess this world has gotten itself into. Those black flags of Jihad just keep popping up all over the place and you know, coincidentally, whereever they fly, a lot of innocent people get murdered.
Gosh!
I bet if I met foe in a dark night, he would whine like a stupid cheerleader.
America didn't vote the National Socialists into power. Ring a bell?
Germany was a second rate, regional power in WW II. Get over it. Not only did the US save Germans from Hitler, they then had to save them from the Russians when they tried to starve them. The old german generation does not forget that.
Something tells me that America will have to save Germany one more time. But next time, America shouldn't leave the Germans alone. They should take that troublesome country for everything its worth, leave nothing behind. Take the beer, the women, the cars, (leave the sauerkraut) and all the copper electrical wire they can strip out of the walls. Then give each German a punch for being stupid yet again.
"they DO need to march over into Iran and start making a regime change and dismantling bombs, missiles and nuclear refineries..."
-- from a posting above
No, no marching in. Bombs and missiles from the sky only. No "regime change" possible by the Americans. Let that happen as a result of the internal loss of face that will follow upon a few brief months of rally-round-the-flag loyalty, then followed by Kurdish and Arab and Baluhci separatists possibly feeling emboldebed, and the Islmaic Republic of Iran, far from retaliating with its "agents" supposedly positioned aborad, will be informed that the destruction of the nuclear arms project is not a one-time thing, that follow-up missions will be undertaken, and if collateral damage to, say, Iran's air force (which could be wiped out, making it far harder to suppress those Kurds, those Arabs, those Baluchis)is to be avoided, then the Islamic Republic of Iran, if it wants to continue to have an Iran for there to be an Islamic Republic of, will have to carefully consider the certain consequences of any supposed "retaliation" against Americans or other Infidels.
One should not forget that it is the United States, and not the Islamic Republic of Iran, that has complete military superiority. "We have the Gatling gun, and they have not." And if Infidels are sane, they will never let them get it.
I bet if I met foe in a dark night, he would whine like a stupid cheerleader.
Now we get it,the other cheerleaders never let ho-girl in.Thats who she is really mad at.
Ah, here we go again -- everything is the fault of the U.S.A. -- I guess you're unaware the United States had just come out of the Great Depression not long before your goose-steppers ended up dragging us into WW II.
Here's something to chew on: we thought Nazis were harmless for a few years before we lowered the hammer.
The same thing is going to happen with the Islamofascists. More and more people just snicker and shake their heads in disgust when they hear that "Religion of Peace and Tolerance" B.S.
Germany owes us for just about everything you have. There's never been a nation like the USA that rebuilds the very enemies it seeks to defeat. But you can continue to be ungrateful. I've dealt with Germans both pro-American and against, and I could give a damn. If International opinion mattered to reasonable Americans today, we might as well just sell the farm and get it over with.
What if Germany supports a military move on Iran through the UN Hooligan, you want the USA coming along them?
Moose
hooligan, you are too selfish to be grateful for anyone one or country, you have been given freedom without fighting for it. europe has become lazy, the US, had to come in and save them from themselves..
you think Iran is sane? know those nuclear missles can reach Europe? but dont worry your sorry German ass, Israel will most likely save it for you.. other wise learn to speak Arabic, start learning to wear a sack over your head, and you will fit in nicely in your futur Germany! LOL
She would want the U.S.A to come along,somebody has to protect germany.
lol foe, we owe you nothing, arrogant tard. Germany was already a civilised nation when the american settlers were still trying to figure out how deep you have to dig a hole to have a proper toilet.
12 years of nazi rule were only a short episode.
I bet if I met foe in a dark night, he would whine like a stupid cheerleader.
LOL. You have no idea. I do such a great job of covering my real identify, that the facts of who I am would probably shock. I'm quite the paradox on so many levels I even confuse myself sometimes.
So, girly-hooligan, I'll say this much, if you met me on any dark night, you'd learn a few things. Believe me.
Damn, I think I'll make some coffee and just get into gear. I've come for the argument tonight and I've got some steam to vent.
TO HUGH: I will settle for missiles, planes and artillery, just as long as they are flying from ground bases as well as aircraft carriers.
I also firmly agree that it's high time we start using the real muscle and stopped wasting American lives just to appease the International sellouts that got us into a lot (if not ALL) of the messes we've had to deal with over the past 200 years. How quickly they all forget. But I don't.
moose, germany would never support that, the citizens would go beserk
"We have the Gatling gun, and they have not." - Hugh
Indeed. We have the B-2, B-1, F-series, and so much more.
They have:
1. The "Azarakhsh," a homegrown fighter plane:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/azarakhsh.htm
2. Some MiG-29s-- nothing to sneeze at, but getting dated, and would they even make it off the ground?
3. MiG-21 Fishbeds. Prototype debuted in 1956. Poetic justice demands they be met with F-14 Tomcats.
You're right, Hooligan. 12 years of Nazis was brief. Germany had other criminals that the USA has had to deal with. What ARE they teaching you in school over there, anyway?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian
hey Foehammer, US should about a dozen bunker buster, the Daisy bombs.. and then nuke their nuclear sites, the ones that hit very small area..but enough to neutralize the bastards! then the civilians cantake control over their govenment.. when they bomb the nuke sites, they can also nuke their mosques. do away wit their mullahs onces and for all.. then you will have a free iran!!
moose, germany would never support that, the citizens would go beserk.
Ya we seen how good they were in last 2 wars,of course they would never support another humilating defeat.
"12 years of nazi rule were only a short episode."
-hooligangirl at April 23, 2006 11:41 PM
Tell that to the people who still have the numbers your people tattooed on their arms.
well, in history classes they teach more about really important countries and historical developments, not so much american history actually, not relevant enough
I think we should bomb lulu and Eisenhund, the world would be a much more peaceful place
Shinolite:
Don't forget the fearsome Iranian "Highly-Advanced Flying Boat" !!! I can't sleep at night knowing those are out there!
http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1102
well, in history classes they teach more about really important countries and historical developments, not so much american history actually, not relevant enough.
I can understand why they would not wanna talk about the country who spanked ya 2 times,in the last 100yrs.
Give it your best shot "hooligan".
Kicking the crap out of Germans runs in the family.
the first thing kids learn in history classes about the states is the boston tea party, when the british granted them independence, the bombings of dresden and berlin after the official end of the war, oh, and the occupation. not really flattering for the states
history classes they teach more about really important countries
said by hooligangirl,, then they do not teach you aboutthe "USA", the most successful country in the world? no wonder you spout off so foolishly! lol.. you and your ilk are so ungrateful, you deserve to wear a burqa!
the bombings of dresden and berlin,
that was payback for bombing great britten
An apologist for Islam and for Nazis, or rather for Muslims (though of course decrying the treatment of Muslim women, and Muslim homosexuals, but not a word about the mistreatment of Infidels) and for Germans who are depicted as ready, willing, and eager to get rid of Hitler. And finally, someone who exhibits all the most predictable and nastiest form of anti-Americanism (postwar German version, full of rewriting of history, self-pity, and pretense that "it was all that madman Hitler" and you Americans are so -- so fundamentally worthless).
The display of such sentiments will remain up for Infidel, and especially American Infidel, study and reflection. But only for that reason. Don't bother to comment -- simply take it in.
LOL. Hooligan, you are a serious troll. I applaud you. You don't want to start bringing up things to be ashamed about from World War II. Are you so sure that some of the gold baubles your family owns isn't made from Jewish dental work?
Please tell us about American war attrocities: I think you've watched one too many movies about Vietnam and not enough DOCUMENTARIES about your own nation's illustrious history of militarization and murder.
that was payback for bombing great britten
He was pretty swell, but when did Benjamin Britten get bombed?
the first thing kids learn in history classes about the states is the boston tea party, when the british granted them independence.
No, we were not granted anything,we DEMANDED and fought for our fredom.A bunch of farmers took on, and BEAT the largest military in the world.
british granted them independence,
hooligangirl you are showing your ignorance.. THE US got their independence through a war, battles.. it was not granted.. but hard fought war.. you got Canada mixed up. you see the British did grant Canada independence 1867. Brits thougth we were too much to trouble over, we are only snow and ice anyway to them.
ya,should have said England
Hugh beat me to it.
"Family Guy" just came on, and I'm sure we all know that in terms of intelligent content, FG has our Teutonic Troll beaten by a few orders of magnitude.
I have a soft spot for Canadians. They've given us Rush, Doug and Bob McKenzie and Shania Twain. I won't begrudge them a few hard fought battles. The British were just plain tuckered out after 1812. Someone was due for a handout. ;)
She is trying to get your goat.
It's easy to get her goat. Just remind her that she is a punk, lesbian kraut who probably dropped out of high school whose only interest in geopolitics stems from her myopic hatred of the US. The country that smashed her pitiful country to rubble without suffering a single causalty at home. Then after smashing them, the Americans feed them, clothed them and gave them a constitution. Talk about projecting an inferority complex.
And to think that at the beginning of this thread, this Leftist was masquerading as someone opposed to 'war' and the needless killing of innocent civilians. The usual line.
But once you engage them in debate, their mask comes off and you see the Left for what it is. Just a hate machine for America, for American history, and a friend to whatever enemy America has at the given moment. So transparent.
she has not commented once on all the atrocities committed by sadam, the taliban before the US bombed them out. she thinks it was just okay for everyone, no mention of all the killing before 9-11. no mention of loss of freedom with hammas, no mention of killings of non muslims in muslim countries and those with a sizeable muslim population. l call her a euro wiennie, but she needs to start praying to mecca, wear that sack on her head, and start language classes for arabic, she will fit in well l am sure. lol
But once you engage them in debate, their mask comes off and you see the Left for what it is. Just a hate machine for America, for American history, and a friend to whatever enemy America has at the given moment. So transparent.
Yep, the Far Left is where all the Communists, Marxists and Nazis went to hide and lick their wounds until they could find a new ally to use against the USA, Britain, Australia, India and all true Democratic Republics.
Guess Islam fits the bill nicely because of its naturally subversive nature and third-world cuisine.
I bet Maureen Dowd loves falafle.
Afghanistan, thanks to the failure of the military conquerors to steer the writing of the Constitution toward a protection of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (as required by allmembers of the U.N.) is now quietly becoming the Taliban-lite.
Only pressure from the EU and US will correct this folly.
If their legal structure is not changed to prevent Sharia Law from becoming entrenched, the old Taliban will return, under a new, sanitized name, in a generation or two.
The ancient regional culture of patriarchy and misogyny won't be transformed quickly to anything more enlightened, but, without a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of conscience, religion, women's rights, etc., the effort to oust the Taliban was as futile as cutting off one head of the hydra.
Islam has too many to replace any of its lost numbskulls, so the heart of the beast needs to be struck. Sharia Law.
We need to force changes in their core dogmas at gunpoint, or the gains will slip away, the locals will revert to despotic militancy, and then re-attack us, refreshed, rearmed and restored with our stolen cunning grafted onto their past mistakes.
Wars are fought for ideas more than territory.
Our present Western leadership is barren of such a clear counter-vision to the lure of brute Koranic craziness. An intoxicating mix of brothel-heaven, sanctified beheadings, polygamy, subservient women, no worrisome thinking, and herd self-congratulation for everything done in the name of the Ummah, however gruesome or immoral.
We possess the greater concepts, but currently seem too paralyzed by self-doubt (from minds frozen in self-loathing p.c. banalities), at the top, to implement them seriously.
The Greco-Roman-Vedic-based Western Enlightment, from Demosthenes to Voltaire, Buddha to Schopenhauer, Epictetus to Mary Wollstonecraft, Sappho to Twain, Patanjali to Bergson, Hypatia to Churchill, makes the "holy" hatespeech of Mohammad (and his Korano-clones) seem sickly, stunted and savage.
Our artists need to know more of their intellectual history to oppose a cult that desparages human creativity; our thinkers need to grasp the core of the free world's meaning, reading Thomas Paine and Descartes, Pascal and Kant, Hobbes and Hume, in order to know the value of what they defend, and the best words with which to protect their rich heritage.
Islam is like the old impulse to blind a nightingale out of a morbid theory that the captive will then sing more sweetly.
The West prefers to think that the free song of the liberated soul of all creatures is the finest.
Aghanistan proves:
There is no point in letting Islamists dictate the terms of their own defeat.
Otherwise, we begin the battle as the pre-ordained losers.
Leaders on our side who pursue this assbackwards strategy need to go.
Let us know what we fight for, who we fight against, and get the goddamned job done.
hooligangirl, was your name brownfinger in another incarnation?
/cheer profitsbeard
You know what is really showing here with hoolgirl? That is how readily the EU (Euroarabia) wants "the world" to follow the UN.
This is despite the corrupt nature of the UN. What?! Some more "oil for food" gravy train for the unelected representatives of the UN to skim off the top?? The EU says nothing about this, all the while when little kids stave. Nope, it’s easier being good little Dhimmi’s attacking the USA and Israel (and Australia over our detention policies of “refugees” who are nearly always fleeing the Religion of Peace)
I mean what a joke? Why do so many Euro's want the true free world (and the EU is not free - read their constitution - you are free so long as you agree with the state (EU)), to abide by the corrupt and inept UN?
The EU that wants to be seen as a single power, yet insists on maintaining the separate power (voting power) of individual tribes within the UN. That's the only reason the EU wants the UN, and wants the USA to follow it. They can overpower the USA in UN voting now and look all pious. Now that the EU has a single currency, how about France, Germany, Britain et al all have one EU vote in the UN, and not several individual ones? Or is the EU just after power, just like they accuse the USA of doing all the time??
If the free loving world (not Dhimmi EU) goes via the UN, we will see global warming alright, not because of exhaust fumes but via the nuclear annihilation of the infidel Dar Al Harb. Nor should we trust the EU. After two world wars, should we really trust the geriatric aging Europeans to get it right? The answer is no.
As for Afghanistan – I say pull out, with any infidels Afghani’s tagging along (they can renounce Islam and enjoy a pork roast (yum!) and beer at their citizenship ceremony). Nuke whatever is left. Same with Iran. If that is too harsh, then bomb the crap out of them and Mecca. Not one soldier of ours should spill their blood for Islam. The Saudi’s are probably laughing themselves to death at our losses in these countries. Save our military for the home front that is coming.
Interestingly Hooligan is a respectable Irish surname, I once met a Mr Hooligan, although he pronounced his name with a short o. It was a not so respectable Hooligan family, who caused the police a deal of trouble, that caused their name to be given to hooligans, bovverboys, (bovvergirls) etc.
I have my doubts that Hooligangirl is German. The language does not seem quite right. She may be of another nationality, many of who live in Germany, a country where Meine Kampf is still a best seller, a country which produced football hooligans far worse than any in England, Germany or Holland. (remember Galatasaray anybody?)
Is disillusionised_german around to give an opinon I would value? And if you are there DG, congratulations on your result this weekend, and all the best for 13 May! :-)
Not insisting on a secular constitution in Afganistan was insane! Also, the fact that we are suffering casualties to the degree we are in Afganistan and Iraq is unacceptable and inexcusable. We went straight to step 2 without finishing step one! We try to set up elections/governments, rebuild infrastructure, etc. but hello??? the enemy is still shooting at us!!
The problem is we're trying to fight a politically correct war and the sad reality is that we are losing the so called war on "terror." We won't even name our enemy! When are we gonna take off the gloves and start fighting to win? Lets let Marines be Marines for crying out loud!
We obviously haven't learned the lessons of "Mogadishu." We are losing this war not because we have to, but because we choose to! When did we become such a weak, impotent, P.C. nation?
Retreat is not an option, but remaining in Iraq presupposes that we are staying until we defeat the enemy there. And since we're NOT DOING THAT, I guess we're just hanging out for an indefinite amount of time and hoping good things happen. While our brave soldiers get killed by snipers,roadside bombs, and RPGs.
What we should do (and should have done) is name the enemy (Islamic Jihadists.) Use OVERWHELMING force to bomb the citiesregions known to be Jihadist stongholds from the air. Use bunker busters/moabs, etc. Do this until the enemy capitulates. You need to break their will. This is the only way to do this. Anything less is seen as weakness, and leads to more muslims joining the global jihad because they see us as a paper tiger and beatable.
The alternative is to live our lives in constant fear and threat of terrorism, capitulate to Islamic law, or accept Dhimmi status. None of which are acceptable.
Or she says she is.
Strange things happen here. I've noticed that often new posters seem to pop up when they have spotted a potential opening. I can't help noticing that she appeared just after the post on Dhimmi Watch, German mayor: Ahmadinejad unwelcome. It was good to hear that there is a man with some moral principles in the mayor's position - the Interior Minister's attitude, by contrast, has been highly improper. But, naturally, the story, as with any mention of Germany, drew a few jokes at the expense of the Germans. (In my country, Great Britain, we can never resist the opportunity.) Did the penny drop when this thread was read?
Occasionally, some posters seem almost eager to, as it were, work up to a fever pitch, dissensions that exist, or that they imagine exist, among different groups of infidels. Maybe the point is merely to goad until the jihad falls out of the picture and a more generalized expression of anger towards the poster's (claimed) nationality or affiliations emerge - potentially useful, from one point of view, for disturbing the sympathies of others who share those and are reading the board, I'd suppose.
So maybe she is German; and maybe she isn't and is posting with an ulterior motive.
On Germany and the Germans I will quote Bruce Bawer's comment in While Europe Slept:
I'll also say that if there are German newspapers that are pushing the notion of "American atrocities" in Iraq, then the behaviour of the press there, and the general socio-political situation, are somewhat worse than I imagined. There are US papers that have been doing something similar and are taken to task in City Journal:
A harsh discovery puts U.S. pundits’ distorted reports in perspective.
However, "hooligangirl" sounded so inistent on this point and so hysterical that if that is not put on it is ominous, since it probably implies a level of distortion in the press in Germany beyond anything in the left-wing papers in the US. So this is ominous - for the Germans more than for anyone else. I wonder how they will feel, when they find out they have been lied to - systematically - and they ask themselves, "Why?" and, "In whose interest?".
I'm sure intelligent Germans who don't "hate reading papers" realize it's as well to keep an eye on the press outside Germany, as well, in order to get a fuller picture. And this means conservative papers, too: the Washington Times as well as the Washington Post and the UK's Daily Telegraph and Times as well as the Guardian.
Hooligangirl:- You sound just like one of our breed of activists in the UK. Your ramblings seem blinkered and at times contradictory. Although I'm sure you will be welcomed here to forward your POV, your mission to inform the readers of this blog will fail. However do feel free to come here if only to sharpen up your debating skills, in return the readers here can attempt to fathom out the wiring architecture of a young mind. No thanks to 'thethinker', but I just can't help but see you as angry muff-munching dungaree wearing dike. I'd say you were from a British inner city maybe Tower Hamlets or Toxteth. You participated in sixth-form politics and is a paid up member of the UAF of the ANL. I would say more KD Lang than punk though. If only you would grow your hair long, take out those ridiculous studs and put on a pretty frock, the guys would look at you for sure. Problem solved.
Listen Hugh,
A humanitarian intervention in Darfur may just be the appropriate course of action, both morally and strategically. But the REAL difference between Darfur and Iraq and Afghanistan - the one that you so conveniently overlook - is that the former is right now THEORETICAL, no Americans are dying as in Iraq and Afghanistan, theatres in which you are so eager to extradite America.
You insist the Darfurese will accept us with open arms. Granted. But do you remember in 1982, the Shiites of southern Lebanon welcomed the Israelis as "liberators,"...delivering them from the clutches of Arafat's Fatah (so pervasive was the PLO presence in southern Lebanon folks, that it was was once known as 'Fatahland').
Within a couple of months, the resistance against the Israelis had begun, speaheaded by Hezbollah. Israel was bled for 18 years before they finally got the hell out of dodge.
What happens when the American presence in Darfur draws not mass attacks from the Janjaweed or even the Sudanese government, which we could easily repel, but suicide bombings from individual Darfurese, expressing their fidelity to Islam and their hatred of "occupation," just as is occurring in Iraq today. At what point then, Hugh, does Darfur become a "tarbaby"?
extradite should be extricate...
Dear 3rdtimelucky,
Britain is a nuclear power with a small and highly efficient set of armed services which has proudly supported the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan to the best of its ability and Britain is also European. Not all European countries are the same. You more than likely know this and probably just were using the word European in a general sense in which case please accept my apologies in advance.
..............................................
I feel sorry for everyone caught up in these conflicts, for the military people who are having to do this awful work in dangerous conditions (yes I know they are trained for it but we hope we never have to ask them to do it), for the aid workers who are doing their Christian duty, for the businessmen and women who are trying to rebuild shattered economies, for the civilians who are in thrall to an evil religion and can't find a way out or see that that is necessary (and we pray for their enlightenment daily), for everyone for they are all human beings and part of God's creation and all are worthy of our prayers and our charity.
Maybe I'm just young and naive as some people say I am but it seems to me that a little Christian kindness and toleration would go a long way in the discussion on this thread. Of course hooligangirl and Foehammer hold different views because we are all creatures of our own acquired knowledge and experiences and not all of our acquired knowledge is going to be objectively correct and our experiences in and of life are not identical. But a difference of opinion is no excuse for rudeness and childish name calling. BTW Nazism was defeated 61 years ago in Europe and to start calling Germans Nazis just reveals a paucity of argument and is rude and not clever. It's a bit like calling all Americans slave owners even though the reformers won the civil war.
Dominic.
Hi hooligangirl,
I don't know if you read this, obviously people only post a day or so on a subject here. I just wanted to tell you thatyou're absolutely right in most issues, don't let them talk down on you. Most Americans don't want to see some ugly truths. But still - Go Girl!!! Could you send me a mail, please? But only if you're not a real hooligan. lol.
Thank you,dominic. I'm german, too, and I was just a bit shocked reading through some hateful comments. I didn't even hit anyone in my life.
Maybe the USA wouldn't have won its independence if Britain was not busy fighting another tyrant at the time who thought he should rule the world - Napoleon. You guys made a bid for freedom when we were fighting for it elsewhere. Not really sporting of you, dontcherknow, to take us on when we had one hand tied behind out back so to speak.
Laugh please coz I don't mean to be serious.
Dominic.
lol dominic
The venture into Afghanistan was a waste of taxpayers money and our military's time. No matter how the Bush Administration tries, real, true freedom will never come to the Middle East. Ignorance is a powerful weapon and the Islamic religious leaders have a lot of it to work with. No one in the Middle East is willing to question conventional wisdom for fear of losing their lives. And those that do are imprisoned and/or do lose their lives. Right now the Bush Administration is living a pipe dream as far as these people are concerned. Give freedom to the Muslims is like throwing pearls to swine.
Afghanistan is not colonial America. Our Founding Fathers invisioned freedom from the oppressive rule of King George of England. They saw first hand the damage done by tyrants political and religious. The unfair tea tax on the Colonies by the British Monarchy is what helped to spark the fight for independance. The colonists knew what they were fighting for and rallied to the cause of freedom. The Afghan people only knew that they didn't want the Taliban in power any more.
The Afghan people were/are like a teenager that just got off of punishment. They're glad to be free, but haven't learned the reason they were on punishment in the first place.
The recent episode with Bro. Abdul Rahman is a fine example of this. Islam is the main reason that the Taliban were able to exact their will on the people of Afghnaistan. But with this new form of government, the foundation is laid for a return of the Taliban. Sharia law is the foundation for the return of the Taliban to power.
In order forthere to be ture freedom in Afghanistan or any other Muslim country claiming to be free, there must be exspongement. The exspongement of Islam from the governmental system, moral system, the judical system, and the psyche of the general public. This total, radical change of mind from the slave mentality to the knowlegde of the inalienable rights of all mankind to live as they see fit, will take generations to teach. Freedom for the United States did not come over night as we that live across the "fruited plain" know. But the Founding Fathers weren't sold out to Muhammad and Islam.
Our military outsted the Taliban, and Islam is going to put them back in power again. Only this time twice as bad. Islam must die in order for Afghanistan to live. If not, our effort there was for nothing. The hunger for freedom must come from within the Afghan people. Just as hard as they fought against the Russian in the 80s, the Afghan people must use that same fight to install the sense of freedom in each Afghani. Freedom can't be assumed in a person. They must be shown that Father God created them and made them free. It has been only 4-5 years for the Afghanis to get this far. They have a long way to go. But they can do it with strong resolve. It's going to cost them blood, sweat, and tears. But then again, anything worth any will bring about a great toll.
Freedom, it may be free,
But it ain't cheap!
I tend to agree with Granny Weatherwax and Yojimbo. I think this "Hooligangirl" poster wants us to think she is a German lefty activist, but in reality I think it is more likely that "she" is a male Muslim posting from the UK I would imagine. There were little hints in "her" posts that betrayed "her" identity, and some not so little. When talking to Foehammer, she was unable to resist the temptation of the Muslim adolescent psuedo-machismo and threat making:
"I bet if I met foe in a dark night, he would whine like a stupid cheerleader."
This is quintasential self-contious Muslim type of language. Probably a bengali kid from Bradford who is angry because his beard won't grow in and the other jihadi types make fun of him for it.
No one has called all Germans Nazis. But plenty of Germans were Nazis, and those who exhibit self-pity, or who rewrite history to pretend that Germany was not up to its neck in mass-murder (such as those who protested the exhibit of the regular army, the Wehrmacht's, role in mass-killings), or who now claim, as this non-returning "hooligangirl" does (a Muslimah living in Germany --whether Turk or German or other is not known)that the Americans were not needed because the Germans would have gotten rid of Hitler on their own (nonsense) and that, furthermore, the American effort in Iraq, where everything has been done by the soldiers to ehlp the Iraqis, to build schools and hospitals, to give out aid of all kinds, to rebuild power plants and repair oilfields, to dredge the sole port at Umm Qasr, to risk their lives, to spend hundreds of billions, in an effort that at least deserves admiration, even if the end result will not do a bit of good in the fight to contain the Jihad, is described by this apologist for both Islam and for those Germans who choose to see themselves as the poor misunderstood "first victims" of the Nazis (we have been here before, many times: all interested parties should read "Conversation Piece, 1945" by Nabokov), and whose desire to exculpate themselves, their fathers and mothers or grandfathers and grandmothers, does not impress, and those who exhibit such sentiments also tend to exhibit, interestingly, a visceral anti-Americanism that is perhaps not surprising. Just look at what this "hooligangirl" dares to write: "The USA have brought so much misery, death and suffering to iraq and afghanistan that it's high time they leave. Kick them out I say."
She will not be returning. But study the kind of mind capable of writing that "The USA have borught so much misery, death and suffering to iran and afghanistan..." And study those who, on the same thread, apparently take umbrage at any hint of anyone actually remembering what the Nazis, and Germany from 1933 to 1945, were all about.
Tough.
Dear Hugh,
I'm chastened although it's not what I meant to imply that there were people calling all Germans Nazis. I was just appealing to for a better line of argument.
Sorry.
Dominic.
insults and insinuations won't strengthen your arguments, Hugh. You're only embarrassing yourself
-singlenotlooking
Are you for real?! You and hooligangirl's "through the looking glass" idea of German history would be laughable if it wasn't so tragically schizophrenic. Once again, if you people can see through your blinding hatred of America long enough to be rational and post verifiable examples of American military "atrocities", please do.
Keep in mind, putting underwear on a jihadi's head and taking his picture is not an atrocity. Herding people into gas chambers or working them to death are atrocities.
60 years wasn't all that long ago. Like I said previously, if you think it was, ask one of those people with the numbers tattooed on their arm.
There were no "insults" and no "insinuations." Offer me up one.
lol Hugh, scroll up then and you'll find them.
Eisen, I'm not anti-american, I rather think you guys hate Germans (like I cared). It is an atrocity for me if people in US prisons in iraq are put in cold chambers and exposed to icy cold water (some died of that), if people get "waterboarded" so that they nearly drown, or if others are just beaten to death. Or, of course, if they attack the prisoners' mental health by putting bags over their heads and shutting out all their senses. After two days of that, you can go psychotic, which the cia found out. www.der-spiegel.de www.stern.de This kind of treatment is much worse than hurting people physically. When I first heard of Abu Graib, I could not believe it, therefore I informed myself. Otherwise I wouldn't dare making such statements.
I don't know why you keep coming up with nazi crimes, you bark up the wrong tree there.
single-
Abu Ghraib was a propaganda disaster for the U.S. primarily.
If a few [potential?/actual?] terrorist prisoners died, the military needed to try those responsible for mistreating and destroying possible intelligence sources. Some are already in military jails for their part in this mess. More will follow.
But comparing 3?, or 6?, or a dozen of those "insurgents" caught in the performance of their jihad in Iraq with the 12 million killed systematically, and according to the [secret] laws of the Nazi Reich, is somewhat silly.
Did the U.S. NOT court martial, hold trials, and sentence those caught mistreating prisoners?, like lowlife jackass Lindy England, etc.?, and expose these generally "humiliation"-level abuses of prisoners in our electronic media and press? (Who released the images? Not al-Jazeera, but American servicemen who were disgsted by it, and American journalists.)
The higher-ups like the woman general in charge of Abu Ghraib, and Rumsfeld, should have both been cashiered. For bad leadership overall, crappy handling of the prison's secrity, and for essentially undermining the U.S.'s entire effort with this catastrophic p.r. mess.
For giving the military a black eye. And for handing the jihadists a perfect ecxuse to revive their terrorism with pictures of mortified prisoners. (Cutting off poor Nick Berg's head, on camera, to screeching killers chanting "Allahu Akbar!", and then distributed this psychopathic swill to the giggling jihadist sadist-masturbators worldwide, in response to a photo of a guy with panties on his is a bit excessive, don't you think?)
And there was one picture of a guy [an Iraqi former general, I think] who died.
Apparently from being sat on too long during an interrogation, and who was then was put on ice (literally) by covering-up "intelligence agents" and declared to merely have had a 'heart attack'.
These "agents" should be tried for manslaughter, at least.
But, if the abuses at Abu Ghraib are "comparable" to the Nazi death camps (12 dead, at most, as opposed to 12,000,000, then your moral vision needs some fine tuning).
We in the West correct out mistakes, and imprison our criminals.
Islam cheers them, from Fez to Jakarta, on triumphalist jihadist websites.
We feel shame.
They feel joy.
Different worlds, entirely.
I choose the flawed West over the 'perfect' Islamic Imperium.
Pick your side.
-singlenotlooking
For one thing, you seem to be pretty adamant in your desire to blame the entire US military and by extension the nation for the actions of a handful of idiots. Do your "newspapers" also include the fact that the persons responsible are being or have been court martialed?
The fact that you seem to have more sympathy for terrorists who would put a bullet through your head as soon as look at you than for the victims of those same vermin is disturbing at best.
Many of us are tired of hearing your type and your constant berating of those who on more than one occasion have saved your people from their own weakness and stupidity.
I and others bring up Nazi crimes because apparently you need a lesson in humility and the danger of hypocrisy. You toss around calcified, specious claims about the US military while sitting in the middle of one giant glass mansion.
Pointing out your nation's and its people's history as a counter to your assertions is not hatred. If you think it is, that's on you. I've lost too many family members dealing with German aggression to give a rat's ass about your hurt feelings. But if you're going to run your mouth and spew this crap, expect an argument.
You and your smug little cohort have wasted enough of my time. Talk back all you like. Before you do, however, wrap your brain around the fact that you have the right to do so because of the country that sacrificed more than you'll ever know to save you from you're self-imposed Nazi regime as well as from 45 years of Soviet domination.
The country and its military, both of whom you seem to have so much contempt. The United States of America.
for both of whom you seem to have so much contempt.
Hey LLL twins,
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/side_orders/showpics.cgi?on_atrocities
profits, I see the difference, but the fact is that the guilty ones are not punished, Geoffrey Miller e.g., who headed Abu Ghraib. It's good Graner etc. were locked away, but they were only scapegoats for the ones behind it. Not even Karpinski could stop Miller once he had taken over the prison.
Hope you join them soon.
I don't care if you talk back and drench me in more of your retarded right wing crap, I won't come back to this site, because the braindead comments of most people here (including that lulu whore) make me vomit.
Tschüssi :-)
Posted by: singlesnot looking
How old are you? 10?
Thanks for deleting my last post, whoever it was.
I wanted to delete it myself the second I saw it in the thread
In the future, I'm not going to waste my time entertaining such fools.