Muslims fear persecution in Russia? Really? And even if they do, which is highly doubtful, what is that bit of information doing in a story about Christians in Indonesia? Why, it's just setting up a bit of moral equivalence, so that reporter Peter Cave can continue comfortably in his dhimmitude, theological equivalence, and moral relativism. "Yes, I'm writing about Christians being persecuted by Muslims, but you see, my headline pretends that the fault is on both sides, and I mentioned Muslims being persecuted elsewhere, so you see, I'm not being 'racist.'"
"Confrontations escalate between Indonesian Christians and Muslims," from Australia's ABC, with thanks to JE:
HAMISH ROBERTSON: While Muslims fear persecution in Russia, Christians in Indonesia believe they're facing increasing repression there.A new decree on places of worship has just replaced an earlier ordinance promulgated in 1969, which was widely criticised as repressing minor religions in the world's largest Muslim society.
According to Indonesia's Christians, this new edict takes repression one-step further and breaches the Constitution and human rights conventions.
Our Foreign Affairs Editor, Peter Cave compiled this report in Jakarta.
(sound of a young foot soldiers singing in Indonesian)
PETER CAVE: The young foot soldiers of radical Islam in Indonesia. Members of the Islamic Defenders Front who have become infamous for their attempts to enforce Islamic morals in Indonesia with attacks on nightclubs, liquor stores and more recently, the offices of the newly established Playboy Magazine.
(sound of a young foot soldiers singing in Indonesian)
Islamic fundamentalism has risen in Indonesia along with democracy since the overthrow of the repressive Suharto regime and Christians, who constitute Indonesia's second largest religious grouping at around eight per cent compared to around 88 percent for the Muslim majority, say they're bearing the brunt.
What worries them in the new regulations is a stipulation that new places of worship must have congregations of at least 90 people and that 60 people belonging to other religions in the area must give their consent.
Minority religious groups say the old regulation was used to close down 23 churches in West Java alone over the past two years and that Muslim gangs are using the new law to attack even established churches in their communities.
Read it all. It's a contemptible dhimmi report, but nevertheless illuminating.
Someone has finally noticed what has been happening for decades in Indonesia(Bali, West Irian andf the Celebes) and millenia elsewhere.
Any possible view of "moderate" islam has to be tempered with the news from both Malaysia and Indonesia who are both slowly committing industrial suicide by attempting to marginalise/exterminate nonMuslims by all means including pseudolegal ones.
It is about time that we threw away the kidgloves of multinational "rationalism" and multicultural fantasy and started to treat all of these Islamic zealots like the dangerous and fanatical warmongers (to minorities, that is) that they are and that they claim to be.
At least the Dyaks seem to know how to handle the islamic problem and they have never heard of Hamurabi.
Three Christians on death row and about to be executed for defending their villages and trying to rescue Catholic children!
Three Christian housewives jailed for 3 years for allowing 5-6 Muslim children to attend their Sunday School!
A Muslim priest in jail for leading mosque prayers in the Indonesian language!
A leading Islamic liberal leader (Ulil Abshar Abdallah) forced to leave the country because of threats from radicals!
Islamic radicals spying on and closing down churches!
Islamic radicals planning the implementation of shariah law throughout Indonesia.
Islamic radicals enforcing Islamic law in Aceh, by lashing women who didn't wear head coverings, men who got caught gambling, couples who were out together without a chaperon!
Welcome to the largest, most moderate Islamic nation in the world!
Yes, this is what happens in a moderate Islamic state...moderate!!!
And do we know what might be happening to the Hindus in Bali? Anybody got info or a URL?
Dominic.
Dominic:
Here's web addresses for info on Hindus in Bali.
Sorry I don't know how to make them active. You'll have to cut and paste.
Bali Battles the Muslims ….London Times Online 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2114273,00.html
Why Ask Why? Christopher Hitchens Slate 2005
http://www.slate.com/id/2127343/
Just a little factoid: We're not talking about a tiny enclave of persecuted Christians. Indonesia has about TWENTY MILLION CHRISTIANS.
Understanding the average Dhimmiwatch contributors philosphy - "a Muslim does an evil act therefore it must be islamic because everything a Muslim does that is bad is Islamic whereas if they do anything good they are acting non-islamic"
By the same token Sikhism and Hinduism and Christianity also are evil and support honor killings since people from these religions have also committed this heinous crime.
Sikh honor killers
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/10/05/mom_gave_long_distance_order_for_honor_killing_police_say/
Hindu honor killers
http://southasia.oneworld.net/article/view/76542/1/
Dhimmi watch: Persecution of Non-Muslims : bad
Persecutions of Muslims : Good
Normal people: All religous persecution bad
Zathras: Some of the Dayak tribespeople HAVE become Muslim, Zathras. They live in villages in the southern areas of the province of Central Kalimantan. More than likely more Dayaks will follow in their footsteps, regrettably.
The political pressures being placed on them to convert to Islam will likely prove difficult to resist.
Truth speaker: This statement is false. (get it?) More importantly, that (yours, above) statement is false.
What constitutes "persecution" in the eyes of the respective parties is vastly different.
Christians in Indonesia and other Muslim-dominated countries are killed, tortured, forced to pay taxes for their beliefs, and prevented from fully and openly practicing their religion-- displaying crosses, building new churches, publicizing the Gospel, etc.
Muslims in Western/secular countries are only prevented from that same "full and open practice of their religion" where that practice involves killing and oppressing infidels (as the Quran stipulates), forcing marriages, murdering apostates, demanding the institution of Sharia, and engaging, enabling or encouraging acts of terrorism.
If that's "persecution," well, sorry.
Christians, Jews, and other non-Muslims have their bad name enshrined in the Quran and Hadiths, while Islam's image problem stems from the fruits of its exhortations to jihad, and devaluation of the lives of nonbelievers.
poetcomic1: I have read that Indonesia's Christian population is over 30 million, although I am unable to verify that statistic (no doubt it has been shrinking substantially recently).
pythagoras-
Considering that it is not easy to be Christian in Indonesia - even if just 20 million Indonesians still call themselves Christians.... there are probably more real Christians in Indonesia than in 'post-Chrstian' Western Europe!
Not easy being a Christian in Indonesia? In some places yes, but not in most. Where I live you can't move for churches, there's practically one on every street.
Patung,
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/.
O.T.
Sorry for the hobbyhorse Hugh,
Its really too bad the "turning the other cheek" and the "sell your clothes and buy a sword" were, i believe, not preserved correctly. Its too bad the (who, what, when, where, why, how) questions were not satisfied in the gospels.
Sometimes peace can only be found at the end of a rifle muzzle. Christians in this country need to be morally enabled to rise up and smash thier arab-imperial opressors before its too late.