More on the Dhimmi Lama: "Dalai Lama urges reaching out to ‘compassionate faith’ of Islam," from AP, with thanks to all who sent this in:
SAN FRANCISCO - The Dalai Lama urged religious leaders over the weekend to reach out to Muslims, saying Islam is a compassionate faith that has been unfairly maligned because of a few extremists."Nowadays to some people the Muslim tradition appears more militant," the 70-year-old exiled monk said at a conference aimed at bringing Muslims and Buddhists together.
"I feel that’s totally wrong. Muslims, like any other traditions – same message, same practice. That is a practice of compassion," he said.
I wonder how the Dalai Lama would square that statement with the many elements of core Islamic tradition that recommend compassion toward believers, but harshness toward unbelievers. E.g. Qur'an 48:29: "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other."
Event organizers say the Dalai Lama interrupted his schedule to fly to San Francisco and meet Islamic scholars and leaders from other faiths to discuss reducing violence and extremism.Security was tight at the invitation-only conference, which drew about 500 religious leaders and scholars. The conference included speakers and presenters from numerous faiths and roughly 30 countries.
Why on earth was security tight?
The Dalai Lama told the audience that many people see and hear news of suicide bombings in predominantly Muslim countries but don’t hear about how Muslims often work with the poor.
I'm glad to hear about Muslims working with the poor. But the fact that they do does not negate the justification for suicide bombing that is found in the Qur'an itself (9:111), which guarantees Paradise to those who "slay and are slain" for Allah.
He said all human beings are prone to violence if they lose control of their emotions and not to judge an entire faith based on a few people. "A few mischievous people are always there," he said.
Of course all human beings are prone to violence. But the Dalai Lama is not acknowledging the fact that Islamic tradition -- beginning with the Qur'an and Sunnah -- contain an ongoing mandate for warfare against unbelievers. No other religious tradition contains such a thing. Islamic tradition calls for a cessation of the jihad only when there is no chance of winning. This makes it exceedingly difficult for Muslims in the aggregate to remain at peace with non-Muslims for extended periods.
"The Dalai Lama told the audience that many people see and hear news of suicide bombings in predominantly Muslim countries but don’t hear about how Muslims often work with the poor."
-- from the article above
Muslims "often work with the Muslim poor." You will not hear of Muslims working with, or giving aid of any kind, to non-Muslims. When Aceh, the most violently Muslim part of Indonesia, is hit by a tsunami, the Western world, with America in the lead, sends in aid. When Istanbul is hit with an earthquake, European countries send aid and the Israelis send their rescue teams. Indeed, when Muslim refugees fled Bosnia, more were taken in in the West than in any Muslim country. In the Middle East, Israel took in more such refugees than any Arab country.
There is no conception in Islam of Muslims helping non-Muslims, with one exception. That is when some kind of well-publicized gesture is required, in order to help Islam's image. This happens rarely -- one example would be that check that the Saudi princeling with the facial tic made a big show of handing over, in public, to Mayor Giuliana after the 9/11/2001 attacks, accompanying this act of pseudo-generosity with a tendentious political statement (the check was ripped up, intelligently, by Giuliani).
The Dalai Lama has his points. But not now. Not in this. His "why-can't-we-all-get-along" naivete, his refusal to consider that Islam may be not only, not even mainly, a religion but rather a total system for the regulation of life that also imbues its adherents with lasting hostility toward all non-Muslims (to the extent that they are good Muslims, and take those teachings, and the example of Muhammad, seriously).
The idiocy of his remark will make most people think at once of how Mussolini "made the trains run on time" and "drained the Pontine marshes" and how Hitler instituted summer-camps, and built the "people's car" (yes, Hitler always had the "people" in mind -- as long as the "people" in mind were those he thought of as his fighting Aryans) and even the roads to drive them on. And think of the healthy camp life, and marching around(hup, hup, hup) of the Hitlerjugend. Practically the boy scouts.
We've heard all these excuses before. Hitler did this. Mussolini did this. Stalin, "Papa Joe" did that (just look at that bouquet of flowers that little girl is handing him in celebration of 30 years of Soviet Rule; Stalin is the Sun, Stalin is Radiant, We Owe Everything to Him).
The Dalai Lama, who has always gotten a good press, possibly not for his intrinsic worth, but for his symbolic resistance to Communist China, or as a symbol of Tibet, is with these remarks looking dimmer and dumber. He should quit while he's ahead.
people like this peace nut are nothing but parasites, they try to preach a good story, but their very survival depends on the military strenght of the country they reside in. l say send him packing to an islam country perferbly Afganistan where they destroyed so many Budhist statues. let him see the love of the Taliban, and then let him tell us how kind the relgion of peices that calls itself islam if he is ever able to leave with his head intact!
I feel like I am watching a remake of the Movie Mars Attacks...
In this version The Martians are Muslims.... With the recorder is converting the laguage the exact opposite...
"We Come in Peace!" is heard out of the recorder...
Everyone wants to hear that peace is comming. Hearing those words from someone like Mr. Lama will apease "some" people... "More" are learning the truth!
I mean where does he come off telling us lies like: "saying Islam is a compassionate faith that has been unfairly maligned because of a few extremists" Give me a break!
Gak Gak Gak! GAKK GAKKK GAKKK!
Translation: "There is no compultion in Islam!"
Okay you had to see the movie to understand... LOL
The part of Mars Attacks that remind me of islam is where the Martians are chasing and shooting people while saying "STOP, we are your friends".
Riiight.
The Qur'an is a book very similar to the one that aliens brought to Earth in the old Twilight Zone episode 'To Serve Man'. People wanted to believe all the aliens telepathically communicated about how they came in peace, how they'd solve some of the Earth's oldest problems and so on...
In the end, one persistent guy finally translated the book. It was named 'To Serve Man', yes, but it was a cook book, not a manual on peaceful ways.
The Qur'an is a cookbook of sorts too.
weatherob
"Mr. Lama..."
Very funny.
Once again, more appeasement from the Lama.
Again, I recalled how as a young guy, I went and lived with another lama, a person whose memory I cherish, a dear friend, and mentor.
I met two of the dalai lama's tutors. Both of who impressed me significantly. Much more than he. He was a fine man I'm certain.
But the point of this- my mentor actually steered me to my Jewish faith, which is my faith- with nothing but excellent memories of that guy.
And excellent memories of the DL's tutors. The point is, none of those three would have ever voiced this baloney, that the DL is peddling now. None of them.
And what I got from the one I was closest too, was that if G-d is truly ineffable, then the greatest of the learned have to be judged as men who's teaching in that spiritual sense, may have the greatest weight- but never believe the political pronouncements of anyone as gospel.
Here is this otherwise peaceful man, delivering palpable wishful thinking.
The Buddhist notion of the 'wish fulfilling gem' as the heart of enlightenment, is obviously being distorted here for the purposes of ignoring the facts on the ground for 1350 yrs about what Islam is, what Islam says, what Islam does.
And that is that.
I have no 'faith' in the DL's pronouncements here. None.
Like so many. I have no problem thinking he is really disgracing himself with such pronouncements and this should be forcefully submitted not just on this site, but where he gets 'veneration.'
I am a man who was taught by both those guys I mentioned to think for myself, and not worship men. Nice idea. This series of events by the DL is a perfectly good example.
Mark
It is unfortunate to hear ignorance from Dalai Lama.I still believe that he has spoken from his heart and his statement is not a P C statement. I may remind him that in India, Islam did a great disservice to Buddhism by destroying the Nalanda University in the Thirteen Century. The muslim general and conqueror Bakhtiar Khilji noted with great satisfaction "All clean headed brahmins(Buddhist Monks of Nalanda University)were beheaded. Dalai Lama may become next ("clean shaven brahmin")victim of Bakhtiar Khiljis of 21st. Century.
"He who speaks, does not know.
He who knows, does not speak."
-zen Buddhist quip.
The Dalai Llama [pack animal of p.c. pabulum] proves it once again.
Personally, I prefer Alpacas.
HOW BAD WAS THAT????
The Dalai Lama has been advised on Islam by Dr. Alexander Berzin, a multiculturalist with a Harvard Ph.D. and apologist with leftist leanings. Berzin has in his writings compared Islam with Tantric Buddhism (think Tibetan) and found similarities, all made up in his head. He is a greater fool than the DL as he has studied religions and considers himself a scholar. He has functioned as an ambassador to Islam for the DL.
The Dalai Lama means well but is naive about other religions and should stay out of the world political arena and tend to his own flock.
In reality, there is no greater difference in religions than between Islam and Buddhism. They are poles apart. Islam is based on the collective of followers, on external rituals and laws in the material world with a dual ethical system and submission by blind faith to a creator who is "out there" separate from his followers who can never be accessed. Buddhism is more a philosophy and practice that doesn't really speak to the idea of a God but instead sets down a set of ethics very close to the 10 Commandments and uses meditation practices that lead one to the understanding to the true nature of the mind. The core idea in Buddhism is the alleviation of suffering for oneself and others.
As I've written here before, the numbers of old hippies and activistis from the '60's and '70's who practice Buddhism in the West brought with them the ideas of the left and, in their search for enlightenment, forgot to shine the light on their deluded politics that include their views of multiculturalism and Islam(based on their sufi friends' descriptions). They know nothing of the destruction of Buddhism by the Muslims and how Tantric Buddhists fled to Tibet because Islam destroyed the culture, the great universities and monasteries of Central Asia.
Here's a link to Berzin and his comparison of Tanatric Buddhism and Islam.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/islam/index.html
The thing that always gets me about this "islam has been hijacked by a few extremists" crap is that these discussions are always held in the US or Europe. Why do these apologists never go to any country where Islam is dominant? Hmmm, I wonder. Maybe it's because they would fear for their lives if they tried to pass off this pile of crap to the Mo-nuts. Let's think about this logically for a second....
If the world's muslim population is greatest in the middle east and north africa, then the way they acted would be viewed as the majority right? So if the majority of those people want to impose shari'a law and make war against the infidels then that would naturally make that train of thought the majority teaching in islam today. (Sarcasm on)But that's not PC so let's just play pretend ok? (Sarcasm off)
From the above post;
"He said all human beings are prone to violence if they lose control of their emotions and not to judge an entire faith based on a few people. "A few mischievous people are always there," he said."
We're not judging their "faith" based on a few people, we're judging their faith by their teachings and that is found in the koran!! The "Dummy" Lama needs to do his homework. If not, his head may be counted among those other Brahmins that lost their head because of Islam.
Just an important safty tip!
Hugh:
Quite. He's done wonders for the "image" of Buddhism throughout the world, but here he is swimming against the tide. Right now, what he has said is in tune with the line the political/media establishment in the West is espousing, but already the ground is moving. Push this one, and he will discredit himself and his religion as people begin to find out what Islam means and just what its adherents want. Does he really want his own reputation, and the the reputation of Buddhism, caught in the fallout from that?
Anyone who's not yet seen this at MEMRI, take a look now:
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD114106
Is Buddhism cool with this?
The Dalai Lama needs to think again.
Here we go.
I'm mulling over what I'll say. Anyone else want to drop the DL a line?
http://www.tibet.com/Address/oot.html
Werent the Baamiyan statues in Afghanistan destroyed citing Mohd's verses against idols? Is the Dalai Lama even aware of this? Perhaps, he should go meet the Taliban and praise them for their contribution to Buddhism.
I like Buddhism. I've done zen meditation. But the Dalai Lama is supremely naive about Muhammad's cult. Maybe Richard Gere has been influencing him. Gere was in the Holy Land last year doing some peace activities to bring the Israelis and Muslims together.
Shao Lin martial arts were originated by peaceful Buddhist monks who had to fight off the depredations of raiders. This is a more realistic Buddhist approach to Muhammadanism
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-09,GGLG:en&q=%22Shao%20Lin%22&sa=N&tab=wi
Goddam to hell the liars. ALL the liars. Dalai Lama too. We are the ones who will pay for their 'touchie feelie' spiritual masturbation.
"If a madman were to come into this room with a stick in his hand, no doubt we should pity his state of mind; but our primary consideration would be to take care of ourselves. We should knock him down first and pity him afterward."
-Dr. Johnson, 18th century English author.
"Gentlemen may cry Peace, Peace, -but there is no peace... Is life so dear, or is peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
- from Patrick Henry's "Liberty or Death" speech.
"...we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks..."
-George Patton, U.S. WW II general.
The Dalai Lama is like the wind-up nightingale from the parable. They sing a wonderful mechanical tune, but it's always the same tune, no matter what the external world presents them.
Let him go try to preach at the Ka'aba in Mecca.
And see how the inside of a Saudi prison looks.
Peaceful, I bet.
I'm not going to insult this man. I truly respect him in many, many ways.
But I will mention that if he truly and sincerely attempts to reach to a Muslim cleric he might not survive the experience and could end up being marked for murder if he did.
Also, Muslims tend to work exclusively for their OWN communities. As they see none besides their own as "legitimate." Including those of Buddhists.
This may not bother him. It could also get him killed.
The Dalai Lama's effective endorsement of Islam is a big blow to the already crippled War of Ideas against Islam, since so many millions of people in the West think he's a cool, enlightened "spiritual" leader.
Television-
Exactly.
The legitimization of the intolerant, just by standing next to them, is the Dalai Llama's main error.
It is easy to say everything and do nothing.
It's also fun to wear neat robes, get VIP treatment, and, by your unsubstantiated wishful declarations about Islam, to cause a fogging-up of the deadly reality of its Imperialistic ambitions, ready to turn the Earth into a global prison camp run by Sharia-toting guards once the West is weakened enough, demographically-undermined, and corroded by its own self-doubts.
You do not get Muslim terrorists to change their ways by pretending that their faith is one of peace.
Anyone with eyes can read the Koran.
And anyone, then denying the existence of these deadly dogmatic declarations of hatred laced throughout the book, is delusional.
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one has to reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller.
I'll take her blindness over the Dalai's vision.
The Dalai Lama is a politician as well as a spiritual leader, and his political struggle is still against a Communist state. In this he is much like the late Jan Carol Wojtyla. Further, his people have an alliance with Muslim dissidents in Western China and Eastern Turkistan. Further, he and his forebears also ruled over a Muslim minority in Tibet, as well as a Lamaist Buddhist majority. Everything in the Dalai Lama's own experience teaches him that Muslims are people he can do business with--and he is not alone in that assessment.
I retain my sympathy and respect for the man, even if I have little use for Buddhism as a religion. I suspect as well that the Dalai Lama knows--as do many here--that Islam has its own internal fissures and tensions with which it must deal.
This has made me angry, then sad, now . . .
The Dalai Lama is an enlightened human and should be an example to us that just because one understands the inter-connectedness of all beings and has love and compassion for everyone that one is all-seeing, all knowing, perfect and to be always believed. He is still human and as such, will make mistakes. This action is a mistake.
I hope he doesn't think that that he, alone, can change the 1,400 year old tribal culture of mohammed and allah that encourage humans to act their very worst, to worship death and hate life, that encourages all the perversions of man's worst behavior - evil.
The Dalai Lama will find the dealings with the mohammedans unsettling. He will see and hear things that will make him uncomfortable. If he has any clairvoyance at all he will see the shroud of darkness around them and feel the air chill when they are together. They will lie to him and if he is perceptive, he will know it. Then what will he do?
DL: "I feel that’s totally wrong.
key word here is "feel". And that's the problem with new age/liberal/touchy feely stuff!
Looks like old Mr Dally needs to be reminded that Buddhists aren't offered dhimmi status. It's either convert or become separated from one's head.
We should never forget that although the DL is a great historic person, he is only a monk member of one sect, the Gelugpa one. It means that he is not speaking on behalf of other buddhists of the world nor even of all Tibetan buddhism.
Here is the example of Ole Nydahl from the Kagyu sect who has opposite views on the subject:
"Most of all, however, many Europeans don't want to know what is in store for them with Islam, what this theocratic system is openly doing to its women and opponents now, and will attempt to do to our free societies later".
http://www.lama-ole-nydahl.org/olesite/pages/dway/interview.html
As a student of Buddhism, I deplore the Dalai Lama's dangerous naivete, since he influences many people. Also, I am saddened to hear Huston Smith sanitize Islam, since his excellent book on religions is popular in colleges. However, I think it was unwise to disrespect the Dalai Lama with the 'Dalai Lama Ding Dong' title. He is not the same kind of person as Ward Churchill or even Jimmy Carter. In his case, his views are tragic rather than risible.