Yet some still look to Indonesia as a shining example of Islamic moderation. "Church forced to close by mob: Despite constitutional guarantees, Indonesia law could ban Christian fellowship," from WND, with thanks to Twostellas:
Hundreds of radical Muslims who converged on a church filled with Christian worshippers in West Java on March 26, causing distress to many with their hostile demonstration, were convinced to disband only after police were called and the pastor of nine years agreed to close the church and cease all its Christian activities, reports the Voice of the Martyrs, a leading monitor of Christian persecution.According to the report, a mob numbering around 200 came to the Church of Pentecost in Gunung Putri, Indonesia, during the Sunday morning service to protest the property being "misused" as a church building. The five-hour demonstration became so hostile, some of the women among the 190 congregants began crying hysterically.
Pastor Daniel Fekky was told by representatives of the Muslim mob, in a meeting arranged by police, the church would have to be closed based on a pending revision of the 1969 Joint Ministerial Decree (SKB) which dealt with church buildings and government approval. The pastor was able to get the mob to leave only by agreeing to shut the doors to his church.
Many months ago I wrote my idea for a heirarchy of constitutional governance, along the lines of Maslow's Heirarch of Needs, but for successful consensual government, not people. I'm too lazy to search my comments at LGF, but it's in there somewhere.
I can't remember all the steps exactly, but that's not the point here. At the top of the pyramid it's critical for a civilization or nation to have a shared norm, and underlying norm if you will, Hans Kelsen's grundnorm perhaps. The underlying norm of a civilization could be thought of as an average of all the individual, personal, underlying norms in that culture. So at best it's a guess.
In the United States, could the concept be narrowed down with some precision, it might be "The constitution is the supreme law of the land and it must be obeyed." Such a norm is critical because merely writing those words IN the constitution is dependent upon people caring about such a document in the first place. Ironically then, rule of law rests on an undefinable shared assumption. Another possible underlying norm could be "Rule of man-made law."
In the case of Islam, whatever happens, for however long, it lies there waiting to resume its "rightful" place as the Total System. Though a convincing argument could be made that Islam itself is nothing but man-made law, I would be careful about noting that anywhere but behind my monitor here in the United States.
"Get to the point, Beagle. Why are you jabbering on so much?"
Good question. Without an underlying norm, generally accepted in society, placing great emphasis on constitutions, they're little more than a waste of paper.
Scholars in our wackademic institutions are not great supporters of the foundational norms of our culture, speaking broadly. So why would we expect Islamic culture to place any stock in their constitutions? If we can't defend our values, explain the improvement over our civilization from centuries past, I think we have no chance when competing with Islam.
Nations like Indonesia can simply toss off the constitution as man-made law and revert to whatever Islam has them on about that day. While Islam is not much of a Total System, prone to malfunction on a grand scale, at least they know how to sell it to the average Joe or Mohammed. In the "long war" nothing is more important.
Moral to the story: Hugh, please get some of these idiots out of higher education before we lose the long war due to intellectual suicide. That's just one of the battles, but perhaps the most important battle.
And won't somebody please take away the EU's stupid pills?
But Indonesia wasn´t moderate? of course I am making an irony.
If anyone actually believes ANY promises made
by ANY muslim in authority...
they do not understand the Koran...
Lying when achieving the gol of furthering islams deadly march is completly acceptable..
Cheating , fraud, and outright killing in the name of god is also completly acceptable and will gain you entry into allahs whorehouse in the sky..
What is really sad and maddening is
While christians and Jews worldwide are being
Shot
Assasinated
Be-headed
Raped
Blown up
Defrauded.
Lied too etc etc.
only One muslim has publicly stated its Islams fault (and he is in hiding)...
When a muslim or palestinian is killed by either our forces or israeli (and the suspect) is usually a suicide bomber or hijacker..
the howls of protest from the islamic countries is defeaning..
In the last days
"Good will become evil and evil will become good"
I really believe we are in the last days..
For i have never ever seen such insanity when it comes to islam is right and everyone else is wrong..
I have never seen (but been told) by my father who was in wwII of the atrocities and justifications of the Nazi holocaust by the nazis
But compared to now (it is actually worse)..
There is No Logic to this anti Israel hatred...
Muslims who cant even read let alone rind israel on a map are out in the streets ready to die in bloodlust (hoping to kill one more jew or christian)...
There is a sick demonic presence behind this..
I dont care if you believe it or not..
But even leftist journalists are now calling up
Right wing (christian) bible prophecy teachers..
and are asking them the same questions..
What the heck is going on with this sudden urge by islam to WIPE out ALL jews and christians??
the answer: There is no logicical or historical reason, no grievance that any muslim can truthfully name except...
Mohammed said to kill the jews and we must..
This is truly from satan..