Clifford D. May of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies writes that the reason we don't hear from moderate Muslims is they are intimidated by radicals. We at Jihad Watch maintain another reason moderates are scarcely heard is that they don't have a theological leg to stand on in refuting mainstream Islamic doctrine. Undoubtedly, both factors are involved, but we think it would be a great folly for the western world to depend on these unknown numbers of moderates as a matter of policy because of the inherent weakness of their position.
In 1956, Nikita Khrushchev addressed a closed session of the 20th Congress of the Soviet Communist Party. For nearly four hours, he spoke about the unspeakable: the crimes of his predecessor, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.Though listeners were warned not to reveal what was said, and the speech would not be published for 32 years, word leaked out. The most widely told story, probably apocryphal, had it that as Khrushchev was detailing the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out within the Gulag, someone in the audience shouted: “And what were you doing then?”
“Who said that?” Khrushchev demanded. No one made a sound. “I want to know who said that!” he repeated, slamming a fist on the lectern. The audience was silent, trembling in fear. “That's right,” Khrushchev said finally. “That's exactly what I was doing.”
I am reminded of this story not only because this year is the 50th anniversary of Khrushchev's “secret speech,” but also because it may provide at least a partial answer to the question: Where are all the Muslim moderates? Where are those who oppose terrorism, religious wars, hatred and intolerance? Where are those who think it crazy to attempt to recreate the 8th century in the 21st century? Where are those who want not to destroy the Free World but to join it?
They are out there, I suspect; in larger numbers than we might be led to believe. But if most are silent and fearful of speaking out, can you blame them? The vast majority of Arabs and Muslims live in countries ruled by illiberal and oppressive regimes. And in the few relatively free countries – Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia – there is no protection from the long arm of Militant Islamism. Indeed, even in Europe it can be dangerous to challenge religious fascism. And last year, Shaker Elsayed, leader of Dar al-Hijrah, one of the largest mosques in the U.S., told American Muslims: "The call to reform Islam is an alien call."...
Muslim moderates exist, but they tend to be secular and stay away from mosques. More than any other religion, people self-identify as Muslim to avoid trouble, as in murder. There are also a gaggle of scholars in the West who have their own Islam which they often push as the true Islam in op-ed pieces. It's the height of wishful thinking to believe these outliers have any effect on the ummah at large.
Sandmonkey has an interesting post on a true Muslim moderate in Sudan:
"This dude is looking to get killed."
Nuff said.
Here in Denmark, MP Naser Khader's recently created organization Democratic Muslims has not exactly been overrun by members eager to join. Probably not only out of disagreement with its conditions for joining (members must sign an oath distancing themselves from sharia), but also because of fear of reprisals from the Muslim parallel community. A recent conference was marred by poor attendance, less than 200 IIRC, and some of the board members made great efforts not to be photographed. One board member was too scared to attend after having received death threats.
Khader himself, as you may know, is under constant protection by the security police. Even some of his family members who disagree with his views have been threatened just for being related to him. So I am willing to believe that many, many Muslims are not 5th column subversives dreaming of the caliphate, but are for very good reasons scared shitless.
Does that mean that the cure for radical Islam isn't moderate Islam?
Someone better tell Daniel Pipes.
By now one assumes Daniel Pipes knows that his long-repeated mantra, about "moderate Muslims are the solution" is an error, and even a dagnerous error. Perhaps if he remains silent from now on, and slowly introduces another theme, another way of looking at things (such as what is offered here, at no cost), everyone will simply forget or choose to overlook his previous position.
Muslim moderates exist.
Really? Well, let's take a syllogistical walk thru logic-land and see if we can scare up any Unicorns.
MOSLEM MODERATES EXIST MODERATE MOSLEMS PERSIST CONSIST RESIST MO MODERATES
You have indeed in Allah’s Messenger an excellent pattern of conduct for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and who engages much in the praise of Allah.
--- Commanded by God in Koran 33:21
Most excellent! Build a campfire on a guy's chest. Kill the old Jew who laughed at his fake religion. Kill the Jewess as she suckles her babe. Kill both of them as they slept. Chop off the heads of all the men of a village over at the oasis. Diddle a 6-year old girl. Fiddle a 9-year old girl. Seize sex slaves at knife point. Kill. Hate. But above all lfollow Threaten murder always and everywhere and with gusto. Most Moderate!
So a moderate accepts God's commandment in 33:21 to worship a hate spewing fake God and a rapist who builds campfire on chests for a hearty laugh.
MOSLEM MODERATES EXIST MODERATE MOSLEMS PERSIST CONSIST RESIST MO MODERATES
Next time you sit with a Moslem "friend", never forget that his or her claim to Islam is by consequence & cause not be credited with full & complete humanity, but is instead to credited substantially less.
When Abu Sufyan learned that the Prophet had taken her, he said, ‘That stallion’s nose is not to be restrained!’
--- Tabari 8:110
Arabian nights. Total, unmitigated, unrestrained, unapologetoi, absolute insanity.
Don't want to be disagreeable, but the very notion of a Moderate Moslem is every bit as laughably ridiculous as Mohammed, Allah, and the Koran rolled into one.
You may have (i.e., rape) whomever you desire; there is no blame.
--- commanded by that old pervert God in Koran 33:51
There are no moderate muslims for the same reason one cant be partly pregnant or somewhat dead. You are either a Quran believing, Allah and Mohammad worshipper, or you are not. If you are not, you are not a muslim. "All' muslims are 'obligated' to support and participate in jihad...those who refuse or drag their feet and avoid this 'obligation' will die a hypocrite.
There is no middle ground. There are no hypocrites in Allahs paradise, and there are no moderate muslims on Earth. Those that claim to be moderate, do so with their fingers crossed behind their backs. Not one of them will look Allah in the eye and say, 'I decided to change your books'...
A moderate Muslim is one whose gun has jammed.
"There is no middle ground. There are no hypocrites in Allahs paradise, and there are no moderate muslims on Earth."
Theoretically speaking, this is true, but practically speaking, life is messier than that. There are obviously millions of Muslims who are inauthentic, slapdash, Koran-ignoring, schizophrenic, lazy, passive or lukewarm Muslims.
Practically speaking for the purposes of Infidel security, however, we can never be sure which of the apparently lazy Muslims are really devout Muslims, or which of the lazy Muslims will become devout and authentically fanatical. But I think it's a mistake to confuse this situation we face, of dangerous inability to distinguish, with a simplex sociology of Islam where there are supposedly no distinctions. The millions of lazy Muslims may someday grow in numbers, and become ex-Muslims when the time is right.
The only moderate muslims are nominal muslims, and even they are subject to jumping back on the wagon. The putative moderates are those who do not loudly and publicly proclaim the supremacy of Islam and demand jihad and Sharia. They are soldiers in the clandestine jihad, the one being waged under our noses but out of earshot. They engage in taqiyya, da'wa, the dissemination of propaganda and lies. They are consummate actors; loyal, patriotic American citizens on the surface; cold, calculating, deceitful traitors at heart.
If the alleged "moderates" are really the majority of muslims, why are they held captive by the fanatics? How can just a handful of maniacs intimidate a billion muslims? There are no moderate muslims because there is no moderate Islam. There are simply not enough muslims in America (yet) to cause too much of a stink. Give them time and think Europe.
"The millions of lazy Muslims may someday grow in numbers, and become ex-Muslims when the time is right." That, I believe, may be our only hope in the long term. Regardless of culture and religion, most folks just want to live a quiet, peaceful life with a decent income. When the shit hits the fan, the millions of Muslims doing quite well in the West may realize that aligning themselves with jihad will cause them to lose everything they have gained. The big question is, does this equation also apply to their offspring, many of whom are becoming radicalized?
Moderate Muslims are hard to find because they don't exist. We choose to leave Islam because there is no saving qualities in it. I was one of the 19ers, and they are just as racist and bigotted as any other muslim sect.
http://xfiles.wearehere.net/believe.htm
Bottom line: we will not be able to make a dent in our PC majority if we keep saying that there are no Muslim moderates, when they (the PC majority) keep seeing apparently nice Muslims every day. Of course, many of these apparently nice Muslims are probably cleverly bad Muslims; but the point is to construct a message that will not alienate the PC majority, but will cleverly nudge them further and further to wake up.
Television-
P.C. will end with a mass-slaughter in a Western city, no sooner.
It is a dream. Waking is the only cure.
Arguing about invisible distinctions concerning members of Islam will only add to the confusion of these basically-uninterested infidels who swallow their P.C. pabulum straight from the castrato press.
You could say to them:
"Moderate Muslims are those who are too afraid to contradict the Militant Muslims."
But all that tells a non-Muslim is that the majority of Mohammedans are cowards ruled by a feverish core of jihadist maniacs.
Either way, you aren't helping spruce up the picture of any Muslims. Calling them either:
Chickens or vultures.
The media, meanwhile, are determined to polish this imaginary Muslim's image in order to keep the Western world's kaffirs content with the staus quo and to make sure their advertizing profits are flowing in from all sources (can you say Saudi Arabia or Dubai?).
This Juggernaut of disinformation will only be derailed by a body count that cannot be turned away from.
Until then, "the Moderate Muslim" is the P.C. pacifier jammed into the mouth of anyone who asks an uncomfortable question about Islam's intolerance, triumphalistic terrorism and historical depredations. Cooing:
"Back to sleep, little one, the Muslim monster isn't coming to get you. It's just a piece of Danish cheese you ate that brings these bad dreams. Rock-a-bye suckers..."
The lazy Muslims bang out a lot of baby Muslims who may or may not grow up to be lazy and moderate. In Europe these babies have grown up to be Jihadist anarchist Muslims
ProfitsBeard
I think most of the lazy Muslims welcome being overlorded by the authentic extremist Imams. The lazy ones have an inner need to be dominated by the true believers. They feel guilty at slacking off from the Jihad.
But like I said, even the lazy Muslims participate in the demographic Jihad in Europe, India, Kosovo, Lebanon and more. The Jihadists appreciate this demographic weight.
I suppose it's not unreasonable for Infidels to demand that Muslims demonstrate, concretely, their moderateness. Now we just need a good litmus test for moderateness, appropriate penalties for failure of that litmust test, and the political will to apply these.
What we might call 'moderate muslims' Mohammed called hypocrites. Reasonable people who say 'jihad is inner struggle' are not muslims. That idea was an innovation - it did not come from Qur'anic verses nor did Mohammed define it as such. Innovation is a grave sin for Muslims.
Anyone advocating a moderate path in Islam will always lose to the more extremist radical opponent. As Ibn Warraq says: "There are moderate Muslims but Islam itself is not moderate." Looking for the Courageous Moderate to reform Islam is on par with the Quest for the Holy Grail.
People who are moderate but insist on calling themselves Muslim are doing so for tribal affiliation or cultural identity. Like persons that call themselves "atheist Jews" when you ask them what they are. Such people do exist - I've stood right next to them. These people cling to the term 'Jew' because of the culture they come from. 'Moderate Muslims' do the same. They have nothing else to label themselves with. They have no other affiliation. Sad, really.
Islam is an abcess of the soul.
A moderate Muslim is a Muslim who has run out of bullets.
I saw a photo of a moderate muslim once ... wait .. now that I think about it, it was a photo of Bigfoot. And now they tell me that photo was faked.
What I really want to know is WHERE IS THE MODERATE ISLAM WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT?????
It sure as hell isn't to be found in the Kuran and Hadiths.
The moderate Muslim is the Muslim that lets the radical, extremist Muslim die for Islam.