JAN VOGELSANG:
Dear kindly Leonie Brinkema,
You gotta understand,
It's just Zack's bringin' up-ma,
That gets him out of hand.
His mother, she's a junkie,
His father, he's a drunk.
Well by Allah, natcherly he's a punk!
Gee, dear Judge Leonie, Zack's very upset;
He never had the love that ev'ry child oughta get.
He ain't no mujahid,
He's misunderstood.
Deep down inside him there is good!
There is good!
There is good, there is good,
There is untapped good!
MOUSSAOUI'S LAWYERS:
That's a touchin' good story.
JAN VOGELSANG:
Lemme tell it to the world!
MOUSSAOUI'S LAWYERS:
Just tell it to the judge.
JAN VOGELSANG:
Dear kindly Judge, your Honor,
Zack's parents treated him rough.
With all their marijuana,
They wouldn't give him a puff.
They didn't wanna have him,
But somehow he was had.
Nushkur Allah! That's why he's so bad!
FABRICE GUILLEN:
Dear Judge Leonie, you're really a square;
This boy don't need a judge, he needs an analyst's care!
It's just his neurosis that oughta be curbed.
Zack's psychologic'ly disturbed!
MOUSSAOUI:
I ain't disturbed!
CHRISTOPHE MARGUEL:
He's disturbed, he's disturbed,
He's the most disturbed,
Like he's psychologic'ly disturbed.
JAMILLA MOUSSAOUI: (Spoken, as Judge) In the opinion on this court, this child is depraved on account he ain't had a normal home.
MOUSSAOUI'S LAWYERS: (Spoken) Hey, he's depraved on account he's deprived. So take him to a headshrinker.
VOGELSANG (Sings)
Zack's father is a bastard,
His ma's an S.O.B.
His grandpa's always plastered,
His grandma pushes tea.
His sister wears a mustache,
His brother wears a dress.
Alhamdulillah, that's why Zack's a mess!
MOUSSAOUI'S LAWYERS: (As Psychiatrist) Yes!
Dear Judge Leonie, you're really a slob.
This boy don't need a doctor, just a good honest job.
Society's played him a terrible trick,
And sociologic'ly he's sick!
MOUSSAOUI:
I ain't sick!
VOGELSANG AND THE LAWYERS:
He is sick, he is sick,
He is sick, sick, sick,
Like he's sociologically sick!
JAMILLA MOUSSAOUI:
In my opinion, this child don't need to have his head shrunk at all. Islamic jihad is purely a social disease!
MOUSSAOUI:
Hey, I ain't got no social disease!
VOGELSANG:
So take him to a social worker!
Dear kindly social worker,
They say go earn a buck.
Like be a soda jerker,
Which means like be a schmuck.
It's not he's anti-social,
He's only anti-work.
Subhan Allah! That's why he's a jerk!
DAVID NOVAK: (As Female Social Worker)
Eek!
Dear Judge Leonie, you've done it again.
This boy don't need a job, he needs life in the pen.
It ain't just a question of misunderstood;
Deep down inside him, he's no good!
MOUSSAOUI:
I am good!
MOUSSAOUI'S LAWYERS:
He's no good, he's no good!
He's no earthly good,
Like the best of us is no damn good!
VOGELSANG:
The trouble is he's crazy.
The trouble is he drinks.
The trouble is he's lazy.
The trouble is he stinks.
DAVID NOVAK:
The trouble is he's growing.
The trouble is he's grown.
Leonie, we got troubles of our own!
Gee, dear Judge Leonie,
We're down on our knees,
'Cause no one wants a jihadi with a social disease.
Gee, dear Judge Leonie,
What are we to do?
Gee, dear Judge Leonie,
It's up to you!
(Sung to the tune, of course, of "Gee, Officer Krupke" from West Side Story.) "Defense: traumatic childhood left Moussaoui vulnerable to recruitment by radical Islam," from AP, with thanks to all who sent this in:
ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) -- After an impoverished childhood afflicted by a violent, alcoholic father, Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui embraced radical Islam as a young adult when anti-Arab racism and his background thwarted his desire to become an international businessman, defense witnesses testified Monday.Struggling to save Moussaoui from execution, court-appointed defense lawyers called a clinical social worker, Moussaoui's high school friends and his older sisters to try to offset his second damaging appearance on the witness stand last week. Clinical social worker Jan Vogelsang testified it was not her purpose to make excuses for Moussaoui's actions but to understand how he reached that point.
They described a boy who witnessed violence at home and endured five stints in orphanages by age 6, frequent moves and deep poverty but nevertheless became an engaging and fun-loving teenager known for his smile and his ambition.
His Moroccan ancestry and lack of family financial backing, however, helped block his ambitions, first in France and then in London. He withdrew from family and friends in 1995, gained weight, shaved his head and took up Islamic fundamentalism, these witnesses said.
The testimony drew a mixture of reactions. Jurors took notes as copiously as at any point in the trial during Vogelsang's testimony.
But leaving court for a break after the judge and jury had gone, Moussaoui said loudly, "It's a lot of American B.S."
Though slumped in his chair, even Moussaoui couldn't take his eyes off most of the videotaped testimony, taken in France last December, from his sister Jamilla.
She described her younger brother as "a pretty little baby, always smiling. ... He was the little sweetheart of the family."
But she also described the abusive atmosphere caused by their father, Omar, who repeatedly beat Jamilla and his wife, Aicha. "He almost killed me; he tried to kill me," she said. When her mother had money for food, "he ate everything and left us nothing."
As Aicha moved her four children from town to town while struggling to learn French and hold multiple menial jobs, Omar followed them around even after their divorce in 1972, she said. "Each time he reappeared in our lives, it was to traumatize us," she testified. "He poisoned our lives. He left us completely destitute. ... He was a man who never should have had children."
When Moussaoui returned from England for a visit in the mid-1990s, however, "he was very turned inward on himself," she said. "I no longer liked discussions with him."
At that point, Moussaoui turned away from the screen.
Omar is now hospitalized in France for treatment of bipolar disorder. Jamilla has a guardian and is treated for schizophrenia. The oldest sister, Nadia, also has a guardian and is being treated for psychosis with schizophrenic features, records showed.
Vogelsang said Moussaoui's mother provided little supervision and no religious training. The family celebrated Christian and Islamic holidays because Aicha wanted her children to integrate into French culture, the clinical social worker said.
She said that children with childhoods like Moussaoui's fail to develop normal resilience and adaptability to life's setbacks. They make poor choices of role models and fail to deal with feelings of aggression, she testified, and such family conditions "would place someone at risk to wind up in serious circumstances later in life."
On cross-examination, prosecutor David Novak tried to undercut the tone of inevitability that Vogelsang had struck. He got her to acknowledge that Moussaoui's older brother, Abd Samad Moussaoui, emerged from the same family to become an engineering teacher rather than a terrorist.
Novak also stressed that Vogelsang never interviewed Moussaoui herself. Moussaoui wouldn't agree to be interviewed, but she talked with 50 family members, friends, social service workers and teachers and reviewed records.
As a teenager, Moussaoui was rejected as a "dirty Arab" by the family of his longtime girlfriend, Vogelsang said. Although barred from her family's home, he won dance contests with Karine Blocat and lived with her briefly during their long relationship.
Two high school buddies from France, Fabrice Guillen in court and Christophe Marguel on videotape, testified how much Moussaoui liked to have fun, party and play sports. Guillen said Moussaoui's hero was Martin Luther King Jr.
Both said he encountered racism in France. He was barred from clubs because of his skin color, Guillen said. "He said it wasn't a big deal ... but we all knew it bothered him."
Marguel called Moussoaui "lively, a teasing person who liked to have fun." But he added that Moussaoui had "a very hard time" dealing with racism.
Gilles Cohen, who met 18-year-old Moussaoui in 1986, said they became good friends and that his family even put Moussaoui and his brother up for several months in 1990 when they left their mother's home in a dispute over their desire to use all their finances for education.
They talked regularly about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Cohen said, and found it "hard to understand why two peoples from the same area are enemies."
"I am a Jew; he is an Arab, and we were best friends," Cohen said. "We were proud we exemplified how two peoples could come together."
But Vogelsang and all the French friends described Moussaoui as struggling to survive economically, with no family support, in England where he went in 1992. He wanted to learn English and study international business and got a master's degree from South Bank University in 1995, but by then he had begun to study Islam and had fallen in with radicals who frequented London mosques.
"He started shaving his head and wearing a beard," Vogelsang said. On visits home, "he was fussing at his sisters for how they dressed," calling one sister a "whore" for dressing in Western clothing.
To those too young to recall, the lyrics above should be sung to the tune of "Gee, Officer Krupke", from the musical "West Side Story".
Hilarious!
So, most of the Moussaoui family now lives in France, with expensive medical treatment, all paid for by French taxpayers. And, then there's "Zack," currently residing in Alexandria, VA. Wether he gets the death penalty or not, Zack will receive years of free upkeep, including free medical care, thanks to American taxpayers. At the root of this family history, is Koranic-approved violence against women and children. The story of this one family should be included in all discussions about immigration and the inabilities of some cultures and religions to ever integrate into Western societies.
Here, for those who wish to track the original lyrics (and no doubt the song can be found on-line and you can print out Robert's revised lyrics, and sing along with the cast of "West Side Story" -- possibly calling in friends and family to join in:
http://www.westsidestory.com/site/level2/lyrics/krupke.html
As for Officer Krupke, I don't remember how he responded in the musical. In real life, one hopes that the officer krupkes of this court will keep in mind that Krupke S5 modal logic with which we are all so familiar (google "kundalini yoga" and "clerihews" for more).
Nicely paraphrased, Robert. Could we have another, say "Zack the Mouse" to the tune of "Mack the Knife"?
BRAVO! Standing ovation.
(throwing roses on the stage)
ENCORE!
1: "...She described her younger brother as "a pretty little baby, always smiling. ... He was the little sweetheart of the family..."
Good one!
Works (nearly) everytime...
2: "...he encountered racism in France. He was barred from clubs because of his skin color..."
It was the French! It was 'Racism!'
Add it up:
"....I am a Jew; he is an Arab, and we were best friends," Cohen said. "We were proud we exemplified how two peoples could come together...."
A delusional Jew.
What did he say?
"...Moussaoui: "It's a lot of American BS..."
An Arab will never tell you the truth. But when he does, you better believe him...
Isn't it interesting how so many can find so much good in this wild beast-man?
Let me put it this way; he is a weapon of mass destruction and must be destroyed. It isn't about what he was, it is about what he DID.
There are a lot of people that came from poverty and never wanted to kill indiscriminately or kill any one at all. Poor isn't an excuse. I think anyone over the age of five knows right from wrong. It's his cult and probably a short circuit somewhere in his brain. Some people are just cruel and if islam is thrown in the mix they become more rabid.
It's too easy to get away from responsibility by claiming poverty and no one loved me.
How much do you want to bet that "Zach's" sob story becomes a major motion picture that's nominated for an Academy Award for best everything? Best picture, best director, and depending on who would play "poor" Zack best actor? They can get Harry Belafonte or Danny Glover to play Moussaoui. Or may be Ben Affleck.
The director can be either Ang Lee or Steven Spielberg. Look at the bang up job they did with their movies "Brokeback Mountain and Munich!"
Our legal system is a joke.
OT, but related to Ironman Hondo's suggestion that this whole putrid mess might become a movie...
I keep wishing someone would make a movie about the authentic life and times of Muhammad. Of course it would spark global massacres by the Islamists, but they wouldn't be able to use "Jesus was never treated this way" for an excuse.
More cinematic possibilities:
Don't forget Oliver Stone or Michael Moore as directors. And surely Charlie Sheen, so much more political-conspiratorily aware now that his brothel-hopping days ("can I pay by check?") are presumably over. Possibly Vanessa Redgrave would come out for one last time, to play the female judge. And the score should definitely be by -- who else? -- Mikis Theodorakis.
Sharia... I just met a law named Sharia...
That's a really touching story. Reading that I couldn't help but to well up. I'd like to hear more stories like that to make me blub. Now I've wiped the tears from my eyes...It's time to get Old Sparky fired up!
A Message from the Ghost of General Patton....
ATTENTION!
To those whining, panty-waisted, pathetic Maggots, it's time for a little refresher course on exactly why we Americans occasionally have to fight wars.
See if you can tear yourself away from your "reality" TV and Starbucks for a minute, pull your head out of your flabby ass -- and LISTEN UP!!
Panties on the head, naked twister, and barking dogs are not "torture" or "atrocities".
This is the kind of thing frat boys, sorority girls, and academy cadets do to newcomers.
A little fun at someone else's expense.
Certainly no reason to wring your hands or get your panties in a wad.
Got that Kennedy?
Nick Berg's beheading on tape was an atrocity!
So Was This 9/11!
WHICH PART DON'T YOU GET?
Islam , a peaceful religion???
Millions of these sons-of-bitches are plotting as we speak to destroy our country and our way of life any way they can.
Some of them are here among us now.
They don't want to convert you and don't want to rule you.
You are a vile infestation of Allah's paradise. They don't give a damn how "progressive" you are, how peace-loving you are, or how much you sympathize with their cause.
They want you dead , and think it is God's will for them to do it.
Some think if we give them a hug or listen to them, then they'll like us... and if you agree? Then you are a dumb ass!
If they manage to get their hands on a nuke, chemical agents, or even some anthrax -- you will wish to God we had hunted them down and killed THEM while we had the chance.
Stop bitchin' about your Damn Health Care, Social Security, Gas prices, and your measly 5.25% unemployment rate...and start worrying about you, your family's, and your friends' asses.
How many more Americans must be beheaded before you stop blaming Washington for all your troubles -- and grow some balls for a change.
You've fallen asleep AGAIN, maggots!
And you may not get another chance!
NOW GET OFF YOUR SORRY ASS -
and pass this on to any and every person you give-a-damn about...
if you ever gave a damn about anything.
DISMISSED
Foehammer:
It's not the system that's a joke, it's Moussaoui's defense.
Shinolite:
Excellent!
I prefer the [censored] ending to the original West Side Story tune:
"Hey juridist Brinkema...
F**k you!!"
She has let this farce play out for years now.
Giving the prisoner free legal advice to help his case. (Is that her job?)
In the world of human common sense, this terrorist would have been considered a military prisoner from 9/11 onward, tried in one day at some unnamed base, convicted, and shot.
Cost to taxpayers, 12 bullets.
Instead of the millions this lunacy has drained from our wallets.
And no free commercials for The Jihad.
In wartime, irregulars found behind enemy lines as spies, saboteurs and terrorists are lined up and executed.
What has changed?
Except the poison of p.c. insanity?
We need a Gen. Patton in this war, that SOB was one of the best generals this nation has ever had, and will ever have!
P.S.- we should have let him stop the crap out of russia so that the cold war wouldn't have ensued and we wouldn't be dealing with a lot of the problems that we're dealing with today.
Yes, Moussaoui is an unlucky guy - and he shared the bad luck of his childhood with us by assisting in the murder of 3000 Americans. In this he went overboard - now we have to send him some more bad luck to even everything out...(Except we can never get even with him...no matter what the punishment.)
But killing him is releasing him from that punishment - he must spend a long and miserable life contemplating his evil - but when he's dead he's released - so,please - life in prison - NOT in the general population (TV, weight-training , teaching other inmates Arabic so they might read the Koran in all its bloody originality, fun in the exercise yard, visits from Mom - who will of course be supported by some liberal church group, etc etc)but in black-hole solitary forever: anything less cheats us of the little comfort we might take from his punishment.
Yeah - prison is first and foremost for PUNISHMENT.
We humans thirst for equity - this man must pay in a way that balances his evil deed...
You know, I am sure that he was a sweet little boy...but something happens to boys subjected to the qur'an...they grow in hate and violence.
Here is another story of our government's stupidity-
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/joelmowbray/2006/04/18/194010.html
Prickzilla;
A speech that Marine Corps Gen. Chesty Puller would be proud of.
Semper Fi, Do or Die,
Gung Ho, Gung Ho!!!
Blaming the French is a brilliant strategy. It's hard to find any disaster in the world without a French connection.
Sonnyboy:
I agree with you. Don't give this guy a chance for theatrics. No "Allahu akbar" from the gurney. Just endless gray days and nights, as close as humanly possible to Eternity. No words, nothing but the barest necessities for survival. Let him reflect, or not, but let his jihad be seen for what it is: a struggle against Eternity.
Prickzilla -
Except for the delusional aspects, you've got your head on straight.
STANDING O!!!!!
One of my favorites!!! However....
The 'original' final line would be more appropriate...
"....Gee, Judge Loenie, F**K YOU!"
Moussaoui's sorry arse life story does'nt come any where near close to outweighing the consequences of his despicable actions.. Just execute him!
Chatilion & Sonny Boy;
I'm not being a pacifist when I say this, but lets look at the logic of Moussauoi's sentence. Everybody wants him to get the death penalty. I want him to get it. Either juice him or put him in ole' Sparky. But lets look at this from his point of view.
Moussauoi wants the death penalty to. And reason is simple. He'll be seen as a martyr in the eyes of all the eyes of Muslims everywhere. Slain by the "Great Shiatan," the United States! In his mind, he's ready to die. To die for Islam, Allah, and Muhammad. What is every Islamic fanatic's desire? To die for Islam!
I agree with Sonny Boy, Let him die for Islam, but not by any kind of death sentence. Give him life without hope. Life behind bars! Let him die for Islam because of "old age." Don't make him a martyr. Deny him his 76 virgins. Isolate him from any human contact other than what is nessasary for the most barest essentials. If you give him the death sentence, it's what he wants. Give him life, he's embarassed because he won't be martyred for Islam. No propaganda for the mullahs. imans, ayatollahs, or Osama bin Laden to use to enlist more Moussauoi's.
Yes, "we the People" will have to feed, clothe, and house him, but at least he will be under OUR control. And under guard, isolated from the world until he meets Allah in disgrace. Worst punishment than death. AT OUR HAND!!! And if he wants to die so bad, send him to prision in Naha, Japan. While there he can commit hiri kiri. No one else but him. And Japanese won't stop him.
We're on the same page here. I hope that OUR justice system see this our way as well.
well, isn't this just great!
now the liberals/dhimmis want to try to explain that islamofacism is a mental disorder brought on by the evils of living poor in a democratic western society?
when can we institute mob vigilantism? do we have to await for another terrorist attack? Tel Aviv to be nuked?
With apologies to Leonard Bernstein, Stephen Sondheim (and kudos to Shinoliite):
(spoken)
Sharia . . .
(sings)
The most onerous sound I ever heard:
Sharia, Sharia, Sharia, Sharia . . .
All the worst of the world in a single word . .
Sharia, Sharia, Sharia, Sharia . . .
Sharia!
I've just told you all ‘bout Sharia,
And suddenly that name
Should never be the same
To you.
Sharia!
I've just learned all about Sharia,
And suddenly I've found
How terrible a sound
Can be!
Sharia!
Say it loud and it’s mullahs stoning
Say it soft and it's apostates moaning.
Maria,
I'll never stop groaning Sharia!
The most onerous sound I ever heard.
Maria.
Whoops: typo in the last two verses. Corrected version:
(spoken)
Sharia . . .
(sings)
The most onerous sound I ever heard:
Sharia, Sharia, Sharia, Sharia . . .
All the worst of the world in a single word . .
Sharia, Sharia, Sharia, Sharia . . .
Sharia!
I've just told you all ‘bout Sharia,
And suddenly that name
Should never be the same
To you.
Sharia!
I've just learned all about Sharia,
And suddenly I've found
How terrible a sound
Can be!
Sharia!
Say it loud and it’s mullahs stoning
Say it soft and it's apostates moaning.
Sharia,
I'll never stop groaning Sharia!
The most onerous sound I ever heard.
Sharia.
Oh I just gotta put a link to your officer Krupke take-off. Did you write it, Robert?
Who knew what lyrical depths those still waters concealed?
Also very hilarious is Algore's new movie, in which he inists, melting icebergs are more dangerous than terrorists!
Check out my daily post, with links also to the movie trailer at TDO
Dumb Ox
http://thomistic.blogspot.com
American BS.
Thats the first thing he has said that I agree with. Why isn't he already dead?
I remember this song from my youth and thought it appropriate.
Oingo Boingo-Only a Lad
Johnny was bad, even as a child everybody could tell
Everyone said if you don’t get straight
You’ll surely go to hell
But johnny didn’t care
He was an outlaw by the time that he was
Ten years old
He didn’t wanna do what he was told
Just a prankster, juvenile gangster
His teachers didn’t understand
They kicked him out of school
At a tender early age
Just because he didn’t want to learn things
(had other interests)
He liked to burn things
The lady down the block
She had a radio that johnny wanted oh so bad
So he took it the first chance he had
Then he shot her in the leg
And this is what she said
Only a lad
You really can’t blame him
Only a lad
Society made him
Only a lad
He’s our responsibility
Only a lad
He really couldn’t help it
Only a lad
He didn’t want to do it
Only a lad
He’s underprivileged and abused
Perhaps a little bit confused
His parents gave up they couldn’t influence his attitude
Nobody could help
The little man had no gratitude
And when he stole the care
Nobody dreamed that he would
Try to take it so far
He didn’t mean to hit the poor man
Who had to go and die
It made the judge cry
Only a lad
He really couldn’t help it
Only a lad
He didn’t want to do it
Only a lad
He’s underprivileged and abused
Perhaps a little bit confused
It’s not his fault that he can’t believe
It’s not his fault that he can’t behave
Society made him go astray
Perhaps if we’re nice he’ll go away
Perhaps he’ll go away
He’ll go away
(repeat chorus)
Hey there johnny you really don’t fool me
You get away with murder
And you think it’s funny
You don’t give a damn if we live or if we die
Hey there johnny boy
I hope you fry
To the person or persons who obviously worked hard on this.
APPLAUSE ! CHEERS ! and STANDING ON SEATS!
Shinoliite
Excellent !
TV networks please pay mind to the talent you are missing on JW.
There once was a rat named Moussaoui.
He fell on his head and went "owie!"
He swore then and there,
Through the power of prayer,
He'd make lots of folks go ka-blowie!
Dumb Ox
http://thomistic.blogspot.com
Back on planet Earth
There once was a political entity known as 'the EU'
Which really should have been called "the PU"
Since it deemed the term "murderer" a racial slur
And deluded itself into believing Islam
had self-worth
And the planet detonated into a blur!
Actually, the original lyrics from Stephen Sondheim might be appropriate here as well
My father is a bastard,
My ma's an S.O.B.
My grandpa's always plastered,
My grandma pushes tea.
My sister wears a mustache,
My brother wears a dress.
Goodness gracious, that's why I'm a mess!
Like the poem, Pride!
How about this? Work farm detail tending pigs. Send video feeds to al-jazeera....
He ain't crazy - he went to university and understood fully - what he wanted to do.
He was a part of something - that he knew would make him great and he choose this.
And now he has to face the consequences of this choice.
This thread has been a riot. I especially liked Matt's post, taking off from Shinoliite:
“Say it loud and it’s mullahs stoning
Say it soft and it's apostates moaning.”:-)
Responding to what's going on with the trial and this testimony, the article notes:
“Clinical social worker Jan Vogelsang testified it was not her purpose to make excuses for Moussaoui's actions but to understand how he reached that point.”……“On cross-examination, prosecutor David Novak tried to undercut the tone of inevitability that Vogelsang had struck. He got her to acknowledge that Moussaoui's older brother, Abd Samad Moussaoui, emerged from the same family to become an engineering teacher rather than a terrorist.”
I have no objections to trying to “understand” how Moussaoui reached that point either and I appreciate Vogelsang’s distinction between “understanding” and “excuses”. But his recent passion for Islam is also critical to “understanding” his actions. Not all Muslims who have read and studied the Quran in depth will “inevitably” wind up as suicide/homicide bombers, in much the same way that the prosecutor points out that Moussaoui’s brother, despite being raised in the same abusive home, did not “inevitably” wind up as Moussaoui did, but instead became a productive citizen. So there is a parallel there of sorts. Pointing out that Moussaoui discovered Islam in an effort to understand his actions stands on par with noting the abuse he suffered as a means of understanding his actions. They are both factors in determining his actions.
If the jury were to conclude that his abusive upbringing were a mitigating factor in assigning responsibility for his crime, then would they also feel compelled to draw the same conclusion about Islam? Is belief in Islam a mitigating factor for homicide or the clear intention to commit homicide? He was only doing what his religion instructed him to do and because he believed in it wholeheartedly, he is not in some sense responsible for his actions because he was a believer?
Why not? On these grounds, how are the two sorts of deterministic explanations for his actions (childhood abuse/deprivation vs. blind faith in an ideology) all that different, as deterministic explanations go?. And that being the case, why focus on his childhood rather than the ideology of Islam as the prime determining factor here, especially as he is the one loudly proclaiming that this is indeed the determining cause of his actions? One could argue that either one of these explanations renders a person “insane” in some sense (believing that God reserves 72 virgins in heaven for you if murder infidels is clearly insane on some level).
The only critical question for determining guilt or innocence has to be whether he was capable of planning his actions and understanding the implications of his actions at the time he undertook them. Otherwise, one IS making excuses rather then merely seeking understanding. And if we go there, we just may find ourselves making the same excuses for anyone who is driven to murder others in the service of their ideology. In fact, we’ve already seen that in a previous case where a Muslim was defended on the grounds that his religion mandated him to kill unbelievers ( IIRC this was in Turkey). In other words, let’s just cut to the darned chase and acknowledge that he did what he did because he discovered Islam because it’s basically the same song and dance in terms of either explaining away criminal actions through deterministic explanations (whether driven by deprivation or ideology) vs. holding people accountable for their actions regardless of the deterministic explanations provided they demonstrated themselves capable of planning and appreciating the consequences of their actions at the time they committed their crimes.
Moussaoui said loudly, "It's a lot of American B.S."
He's right. Grant Moussaoui his death wish before he does any more evil.
BTW, during WW2, a team of U.S. Army psychologists did a psychological profile of Hitler for the OSS and concluded (1943) that Hitler would committe suicide, that he had a death wish. I think this is true with very many of these jihaddists as well.
Robert Spencer should consider regularly veering into witty creative gambits like that beautiful redo of the West Side Story song. (And remember Spencer's Strangelove-inspired phone conversation between Condi and Karzai?) One gets the feeling Hugh would be gifted at this sort of thing too. How bout a broadway play/movie spoof, maybe based on Springtime for Hitler? Or maybe use one of the Pink Panther films as some sort of template?
- Omar
Moussaoui said loudly, "It's a lot of American B.S."
Am I wrong to say that I find his honesty refreshing compared to the sob stories?
I have been away for a few weeks, good to be back. I can see that nothing has really changed. I liked the WSS mods that were done.
As far as this guy is concerned, I say send to him to hell now! Let him see that he was lied to all along. If there is no hell and just and endless dreamless sleep, than send him there ASAP.
Pushing him off a cliff while he is on fire might be an equivalent pain to what he inflicted. just a thought.
My WSS entry:
Tonight, tonight will be an endless night, tonight there will be no virgins.
Tonight, tonight I'll see hell tonight and for me there will be no more stars. Today the prison seemed like heaven, the food was so good and now I'll rot in hell!
Oh, moon god wasn't right, the devil made my life endless night, tonight.
Sorry, but I disagree with those of you who want him to live a long life in prison and suffer.
This monster's actions call for nothing less than death and I, for one, don't wish to either support his criminal butt for the rest of his miserable life, nor even give the remote possibility to the chance that his filth may infect others behind bars where Islam can thrive among the more hostile elements of modern society. Plain and simple: if an animal turns, you put it down. And don't worry about his martyrdom ...we need to convey the message to the rest of the world that we're dead serious about crimes committed against our populace, we'll fully prosecute violators of our laws, and make certain that this animal dies on OUR terms, not HIS.
Inform NYC the date and time that he will be released in NYC and turn him loose in the middle of the Bronx.
Problem solved. If the mo's show up, more problems solved.
Good plan Tex!
This is all such a load of horse pucky. Zacharias has a brother--an older brother, Abd-Samad Massaoui. You never hear about him because he had the same upbringing as Zacharias, but he didn't turn out that way. The mother and Zacharias don't speak to Samad anymore because Samad doesn't agree with Zacharias' outlook and said so, long before the trouble started. Here is what happened in his own words (with pictures) from the Terence McKenna CBC documentary "The Recruiters":
http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/recruiters/abdsamad_interview.html
"CBC's Terence McKenna:
"Just to begin, explain to me the history of your brother. What kind of guy was he when he was young?
"Abd-Samad Moussaoui:
"He was a very sympathetic guy when he was young. He loved sports. He loved to play basketball and rugby. He was a young open-minded guy who loved music, loved to laugh, and loved life.
"CBC:
"Happy?
"Abd-Samad Moussaoui:
"Yes, I believe he was happy, until a certain point he was happy. Up until the age of 14 he seemed to be fine. After that things began to change. The family situation soon began to explode. My parents divorced. We were young, we had family problems, and for that matter the family atmosphere at home began to deteriorate. Then in 1997 it became worse and he was kicked out of the house.
"CBC:
"Why?
"Abd-Samad Moussaoui:
"He wasn't getting along with my mother. They both weren't getting along with each other, and it was impossible for them to live with each other, so it was better for him to leave the house. He decided to take an apartment by himself and assume his responsibilities. He was working in college. He would do his little job to pay his bills. It was not easy for him to get a job, pay the rent, and his studies and make ends meet. I remember that there were weeks on end where he would eat only bread and drink tea. That I remember quite clearly. For weeks and months on end. He understood quite fast that he had to study hard in order for him to achieve his goal in getting his degree. He later went on to getting a scholarship to continue his studies. The scholarship for his superior studies was something interesting that gave him the opportunity to have a room on campus, and to live a normal and decent life. With this he was able to study for his degree in a little town called Perpignan. He studied there for two whole years in social science.
CBC:
Would he drink beer...?"
Read it all for an eye-opener then ask yourself why the brother Samad didn't turn to jihad if the father's abuse was so terrible? Nurture or nature?
Now, isn't all this musical entertainment lovely? Robert, you're like the Ubermensche of Jihadwatch!
(unlike some other posters who would use their pretty words and reductions absurd to destroy not only Islam, but also the West, and even bright young America, and then aged Confusian Communism, leaving us all to las cucarachas who once ruled the earth, and are now waiting, quietly munching away on the sidelines, to rise again)
foreign -
Good point! I have two younger brother's, and we all turned out very differently. Whenever I listen to the brother who's the "black sheep" of the family talk about our upbringing; I often think that we were raised by different parent's, because his version of events is so negative and NOT how I remember things. Which might explain my brother's current disposition with life.
dococ: You may find Moussaoui's candor "refreshing" but please bear in mind that it was NOT for your benefit and this honesty you have observed happens to be connected to murderous ideological underpinnings.
You must be desperate.
foreign devil: How do you know that Zacharias' brother is NOT sympathetic to the jihadist cause? Unless you actually know him personally than you have no real way of knowing his actual views on Islam or how he has really "turned out". Your only proof consists of statements made by your selected example--the allegedly non-jihadist brother of jihadist Zacharias.
Do you have any way of knowing that (supposing your assessment of this sibling of Zacharias is true) this man won't decide to attain Islamic martyrdom later on in life? Except from what he has been telling us? Again allegations do NOT amount to convincing proof.
May I acquaint you with the Islamic practice termed "taqiyya" which legitimizes the telling of untruths (outright lies) to non-Muslims. Thus non-Muslims can never really be certain that anything Muslims tell them is the truth (it usually isn't). And 'taqiyya' speech from Muslims to non-Muslims could very well be the source of evidence you cite to support your case.
Most of us are waiting to see Muslims come out of the closet strongly OPPOSING ANYTHING TO DO WITH JIHADIST WARFARE AGAINST THE INFIDELS. Most of us are no longer holding our breath for this to happen...
My suspicions remain.
Nice try.
ps-If you are yourself a Muslim then I definitely am suspicious... of YOUR post!