A There-Is-No-Compulsion-In-Religion Update from Malaysia. From The Star, with thanks to Nicolei:
KOTA BARU: Skipping Friday prayers is a major sin for Muslims and it is punishable under the state’s Syariah laws, said Kelantan Bar Committee chairman Datuk Wan Harun Shukri Noordin.Therefore, Muslims in the state must remember that Friday prayers are compulsory, otherwise they can be jailed or fined by the religious authorities, he said yesterday.
He was commenting on a recent case in which a Muslim man was fined by the Syariah Court here for not attending the weekly prayers.
When will the rest of the world wake up and realize that this "religion" is just forced brainwashing by the people who want to retain their power?
Malaysians are getting the same treatment that Iranians are used to now. The silver lining is this will deligitimize Islam in the eyes of many Malaysian Muslims. No one likes to be forced. Someday, far in the future, people will look back on this type of thing and understand why Islam withered.
Constantinople-
On the other hand, at least we know where they are on Fridays if they are forced by the pedophile "prophet"'s watchdogs into specific buildings at specific times.
There are advantages to your sworn enemy being dogmatically mechanical.
There is an ancient story about an army -Lydia?- near Greece that had trained their horses to trot in dance-like movements when music was played during their religious festivals. These same horses were also to be on-call for battle.
The Greeks learned of this behavior of the stallions, and, when they were attacked by this cavalry, whipped out flutes and began to play the enemies' festival tunes. They horses stopped the charge, began "dancing", and the invading army was slaughtered and routed in the confusion.
So, those who are not too fixed in their behavior have the best chance of prevailing.
Islam = R.U.R. (Religious Universal Robots)?
(Apologies to Karel Capek.)
We have ways of making you pray.
All these Islamic five times a day prayers are a form of brainwashing. Muhammad and the evil Mullahs know this. It hard to break free when you are continually prorating to a phony Allay and muttering verses from the Koran. This chanting and reciting out loud is more brainwashing.
Legitimate religions also inculcate their followers. But it's done to put people on a positive path. Orthodox Jews do a lot of prayers and rituals but are not an aggressive force bent on world domination. Christians aren't praying five times per day
Correction-- It hard to break free when you are continually prostrating to a phony Allah and muttering verses....
There needs to be a civil war in Malaysia soon, while there still are enough Chinese and Tamils. Otherwise, that country will be totally down the way of Indonesia.
To quote Gene Wilder from "Blazin' Saddles."
"Boy are these Muslims strict."
What I find amazing, and found amazing when watching the Chinese community in Indonesia attacked, raped and chased out, is the impotence and cowardice of China as a nation. It seems all they care about is money, even at the expense of their own kith and kin across the sea. Inside China Muslims are on a short leash (as is everyone) but individuals are expendable, even entire populations. What would Malaysia do if China stood up and told them that Chinese-Malaysians are entitled to full civil rights, not Sharia?
Dennisw...Mohammad originally prescribed praying fifty times a day. He soon reduced it 90% to five times a day. With all that praying there was no time to frolic with slave girls and raid caravans. Besides, his nine year old wife needed lots of his time. It would be better for most everyone had Mohammad left the number of prayers at fifty...
Goes to show that Islam is on the way out, since now it is trying via Malaysa to enforce piety. This I predict will create a backlash.
I wonder who monitors attendance. Do they have "religious police" like Iran and the "Kingdom"? Will your family or neighbors rat you out if you lack piety? It all sounds like such a great way to live. Can't wait until Notre Dame de Paris and Cologne Cathedral are turned into mosques.
duh_swami
The Muslims have Koran recitation contests. More brainwashing. Islam is an entire way of life and human government. A total system drilled into even the recalcitrant by praying 5 times a day. They look at you cross eyed if ain't down on the floor kow towing to pie in the sky Allah
I recall a wonderfully circular story from a guy who'd been to Malaysia.
He asked this Malaysian why the Chinese were more successful than the Malays (who have been converted to Islam).
"Well," says his Malaysian informant, "the Chinese work very hard. They expect the children to study schoolbooks in the evening, and so the children become very educated and get good jobs."
He asked why the Malaysians don't do the same, only to be told that it might be a good idea but that there were, nevertheless, advantages for the Malaysians, viz., they were more "moral". (The Malay children, insofar as they studied, studied extracts from the Koran and lists of Islamic rules.)
Asked what was wrong with the Chinese, in what way they were less "moral", the Malay replied that they ate pork. Now, I have to say that while several religions have prohibitions on certain foodstuffs I doubt any other would see such prohibitions as central to the moral view of things - or any reason to condemn the Chinese for not observing them.
It's totally circular logic: the book says do such-and-such and don't do such-and-such. Asked whether it would not be better to read more useful books, the response is yes, but you wouldn't be so "moral". Asked as to what is meant by "moral" the response is that you do what you would do if you'd read the book.
Oh, I think the Malay may also have pointed out that the Chinese kept pet dogs.
Oh, brother!
Quiybo sez:
"...What I find amazing, and found amazing when watching the Chinese community in Indonesia attacked, raped and chased out, is the impotence and cowardice of China as a nation. It seems all they care about is money, even at the expense of their own kith and kin across the sea. Inside China Muslims are on a short leash..."
Good observation indeed!
But remember, sometime ago Zarqawi's 'insurgents' in Iraq captured and kidnapped a dozen Chinese.
While they killed a bunch of Nepalese (I think 8 of them) and a lot of others, even Turks, Syrians, Jordanians etc. they did -somehow mysteriously- let the Chinese off. I don't even think there was enough time to negotiate ransom.
What does that tell you?
I believe its not about the Friday Prayers itself but what happens after the Prayers.
The rules are simple,
1. Skipping friday prayers is a punishable sin;
2. As well as leaving the prayers half time.
* Note that you must attend the full session, like it or not.
I used to stay close to a mosque & After the prayers, where will be a sermon by someone influential.
I woudnt mind if the sermons are decent & good but half the time its about condeming others & asking to fight back & uphold islamic principles.
This was apperent in the cartoon fiasca days. I had an opportunity to listen to these sermons & I can say its brain washing 1st degree.
While this does not happen all the places, the devotees are in the mercy of listening to the sermon.
This is a systematic way of gathering people for mandotary meeting & getting them do what they want them to do. The muslims are treated as zealots. If they dont, they will be punished.
If one were to read history, you will find the similarities on any protests, attacks, events all hapening after friday prayers.
The Friday prayers was supposed to be a good prayer & learn to live & forgive your neighbours & become a better person. But unfortunately, it is not done this way.
Some are smart enough to know its rubbish & skip it & most cases its the newly converts that were forced to convert to marry a muslim lady. Many do it because its a law in Malaysia.
Also, the education of muslim children is done irresponsibly, For example. I stayed in a muslim area & at times I stayed back in a local surau when it rained. Sometimes in the Classroom.(I look like a muslim - they think).
They were tought that the non muslims are dirty because they eat pork & touch dogs. Therefore their blood is dirty. There was one relieve religious teacher that said touching a non muslim is like touching a dog. I didnt know what it meant at 8 years of age but its really sad to know innocent children are being tought this way.
So I wont be supprised that the Municipal council banned dogs (they already did it in Shah Alam) or tear down other religious centers (doing it now) as their education is totally terrorist like ismalic.
And its true, the Chinese & Indians contribute more than 80% of the taxes/country income with only 30% population. Where else the scholarships & places for the Universities & goverment jobs goes to the Malay Muslims. The Chinese & Indians really work very hard to achieve what they have presently.
In older days with the present situation, you could say that the Chinese & Indians were slaves.
"this "religion" is just forced brainwashing by the people who want to retain their power"
"The silver lining is this will deligitimize Islam in the eyes of many Malaysian Muslims. No one likes to be forced"
"Goes to show that Islam is on the way out, since now it is trying via Malaysa to enforce piety. This I predict will create a backlash."
"All these Islamic five times a day prayers are a form of brainwashing. Muhammad and the evil Mullahs know this. It hard to break free when you are continually prorating to a phony Allay and muttering verses from the Koran."
What all these observations by posters above seem to fail to take into account is that the grassroots average Muslim actually likes to be brainwashed and abused, likes to submit his heinie to higher powers, from the local imam on up to Allah. Psychologically and sociologically what is going on here is, at the very least, a complex system of sadomasochism with layers and layers of centuries of a florid jungle of familial and tribal traditions and customs overlain with a grandiose supranational eschatological mass psychosis.
And furthermore, the posters above are making the classic mistake: assuming that the grassroots average Muslim is actually a decent, open-minded person like we are. You could not be further off base. The grassroots average Muslim is not equivalent to the middle-class American suburban girl who for one summer goes off to join a cult, and then can be deprogrammed after just a few weeks of intensive therapy. The Muslim mentality runs profoundly deeper, and is so intractable and contiguous with such vertiginous historical depths that the average American and even European is completely out of their depth in grasping what is going on, psychologically & sociologically, with these people. They might as well be a colony of Martians on Earth. It would be better pedagogically for us to in fact simply consider them as invading Martians, than it would be to try to "understand" them.
Television,
I think you hit the nail on the head. No matter what Islam demands of Muslims, they have been so conditioned by the time they reach maturity they are unlikely to complain or anything. In fact, they want MORE of the same!
And even if the odd individual here or there objects, the pressures from family, friends, imam, etc., will bring him/her back in line. Or they will just kill 'em.
Television
Right you are. Muslims are the willing slaves of Islam. They love the whole hierarchy of domination and harsh pecking orders. Muslims submit to Allah and infidels must submit to Muslims
A very good insight into the Muslim Arab psyche is "The Haj" by Leon Uris (fiction and an easy read)
""Goes to show that Islam is on the way out, since now it is trying via Malaysia to enforce piety. This I predict will create a backlash.""
I heard that people were forced into going church many years ago, Islam is really trying its best to hold on - in the face of a changing global mentality.
This guy is forced by law to practice the religion – so he will no longer go to the mosque because he really feels that he should go, but because he has been ordered to attend.
It shows how Islam does not only underestimate the intelligence of its women, but also of its men. And by forcing people to worship or else – demonstrates how desperate the Muslims are, and how extremely worried that they must be of loosing their religion.
One billion minus one!
Religion needs people to exist - but people don't need religion to live.
This ruling makes Islam look more like a cult.
"so he will no longer go to the mosque because he really feels that he should go, but because he has been ordered to attend"
Islam translates as "Submission" -- the submission, submerging, of one's personal will to the will of Allah, to the will of Mohammed telling you what Allah wants, to the will of Imams telling you what Mohammed wants, to the will of rulers telling you what the clerics say Mohammed says Allah wants, etc.
There is no "feels that he should go" for the average authentic Muslim. There is only the suppression of free will and conscience so that submission becomes all of life.
No compulsion in islam. GO to Friday prayers or you will be arrested. No compulsion in islam. Go to Friday prayers or you'll be fined. No compulsion in islam. Go to Friday prayers or you will be sinning.
Islam makes you want to puke.
Arresting people for not going to Friday prayers is just part of life for the average Muslim. It's part of the same Submission they fervently believe in anyway. Usually, at best, the average Muslim is like Simpson, the Peter Ustinov character in Topkapi, who scurries around trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Islam makes you want to puke. - freewoman
There is no compulsion in puking... No, wait, there is!
Ahhahahaha!!! Shinoliite, I must have missed that one!
Pass It On: "And by forcing people to worship or else – demonstrates how desperate the Muslims are, and how extremely worried that they must be of loosing their religion."
In many respects, day by day, we see evidence that Islam is indeed in its death throes. The only downside to that is that in its throes, its likely to cause a whole lot of death.
I very much agree Caroline and I often wonder why the muslims here in the States could want life as it is in the Middle East. Do they not like the idea of not being punished for missing Friday prayers? Being bombed when they go to eat? Not having to worry if an ankle shows. Going to a ball game (for women). Being able to drive somewhere and not running into a militia every so often. Going shopping and there being , well, places to shop. Clean water. USDA.
There is so much to do in a free country and I just don't understand why they that are here and enjoying our freedoms would want to change it.
inbetween prayers to mecca they have time to protest,rape, bomb and kill infidels. whats a muslim to do,, no time to invent, work for a living..but cant miss friday prayers..
The ticking of the Malaysian Islamic timebomb grows louder with every "tick" like this one.
ps-Infidelpride: Malaysia is really
only a smaller version of Indonesia. It is in no way an improvement over Indonesia other than that its standard of living is generally somewhat higher and its government was set up by the British and has a stronger western establishment. Actually, Malaysia may now be closer to sharia't law than Indonesia which (still) has at least some strong indigenous elements around that dilute hard-core Islamic "law" (but maybe not for long).
Pythagoras, true, but Malaysia has until now been a Muslim plurality country, with the Muslims only recently crossing 50%. This in sharp contrast to Indonesia, which is 88% Muslim. Reason Indonesia looks like having some indigenous elements was that for the longest time, Muslims were mainly concentrated in Sumatra and Java, and other tribes in all other islands from Bali to Irian Java.
Unfortunately, all that has been changing for a while now. I do hope that all of Indonesia's infidels - Kalimantan's Dayaks, Sulawesi's Christians, Bali & Lombok's Hindus, et al can be salvaged, a la East Timor.
Hey, look on the bright side Folks. The more times a Muslim has to pray [Baa Baa Mohammed] the less time they get to breed or plot Jihad.
Am all in favour of pious Muslims praying 50 times a day as Mo wanted. They might even get 'Housemaid's knee 'as well-not good for Muhajadeen.
They might as well be a colony of Martians on Earth. It would be better pedagogically for us to in fact simply consider them as invading Martians, than it would be to try to "understand" them.
Posted by: Television at April 27, 2006 02:58 PM
LOL, I just commented on another site that muslims might as well be "aliens from another planet" or "denizens of another dimension." They seem to exist in a parallel universe where everything is backwards.
WE are shaped and formed by our genes, environment, education, religious indoctrination, parental influence, culture, family, etc. When we become adults, we cling to some beliefs, abandon others, embrace new ones. We think for ourselves, or most of us do! Muslims do not. Everything muslims are allowed to do, or think, or believe is dictated by Islam--everything. Muslim children are completely indoctrinated by the time they are ten or twelve years old, sometimes even younger.
It is not difficult at all to understand why muslims are totalitiarian megalomanics. The brainwashing begins at birth and NEVER ENDS. Prayers five times a day; endless, senseless rituals; fear of an unknowable deity and fear of tribal retribution for the slightest indiscretion; no free will, no free inquiry, no deviation from what is permitted in the Qur'an. If the Qur'an does not permit it, it is forbidden. The ultimate authority next to allah is the cleric; he is allah's spokesman. If he says kill the infidels, that is allah's will.
This mindless, blind faith is perfectly understandable for people who are not exposed to anything else. Even when they migrate to the WEst, muslims remain segregated from non-muslims for the most part. The clerics know that if they experience too much Western culture, they will eventually kiss Islam goodbye; who wouldn't? Muslims are convinced that they are superior to all other people, which encourages them to maintain their distance from filthy non-muslims. It's all a clever and complicated system of mind control, but it cannot be sustained forever unless muslims return to their ancestral hellholes and remain isolated from the rest of civilization.
WE can all thank the UN for the mess we are in today. It was the UN and its corrupt, arrogant, social engineering bureaucrats that devised the clever agenda of massive population shifts and migrations to create a multi-cultural world with no borders. To bring the third world to the first world in the name of "social justice." To redistribute the West's wealth and destroy the sovereignty of the US. Of course, our politicians were and are complicit in this diabolical conspiracy to create a global socialist utopia, and anyone who doubts that this is happening right under our noses is blind. Just wait until the UN army gets up and running and we have foreign storm troopers on American soil. Maybe then Americans will realize American Idol and CSI aren't very important, when the UN has completely destroyed America. We can watch the intelligentsia and the elites celebrate their great victory as our country disintegrates into a third-world hellhole. Bill Clinton will make a speech on television to commemorate the formal abolishment of our Constitution, with King Kofi and Hillary by his side. Won't that be a grand day?
Does anyone believe that the cataclysmic changes in Europe over the past thirty years were accidental? That the Immigration Reform act of 1965 was not designed to change the face of America? Thanks, Ted Kennedy. It is so obvious even if you don't read the mandates, treaties, proclamations, and other assorted bureaucratic bullshit that is regurgitated by the despots in the UN and the Council on Foreign Relations. It should all be over in a few years, so enjoy what's left of America while you can. God help our children.
Kelantan is an opposition state in Malaysia that is ruled by the PAS, an Islamic party, and it also implements some forms of Sharia. It is not part of the ruling coalition of the federal government. Kelatan is also the most conservative state in Malaysia, so one shouldn't confuse what happens in Kelantan with the rest of Malaysia.
However, with competition from PAS, the ruling UMNO party also has to show more of its Islamic credentials to the Malaysian Muslims. Thus, it has also become more and more conservative. Apostasy from Islam is illegal (sentence range from jail, reeducation, etc) and preaching to Muslims is also illegal.
All is not lost folks. The really fastest growing faith in the world today is not Islam, but Christianity. The global south is going through an explosive growth in adding new Christians everyday that these countries are now are starting to send believers to the west, which many years ago sent missionaries to the global south to plant the seeds of the Christian faith. They are coming either to start new churches or to minister to church communities aready in place. This will in turn plant the seeds for a major Christian revival. Also provide a rude awakening to the Muslim community.