A new poll from CBS (with thanks to all who sent this in) is sure to give rise to renewed handwringing over "Islamophobia."
(CBS) Although Americans believe they are better informed about Islam than they were five years ago, a new CBS News poll finds fewer than one in five say their impression of the religion is favorable.Forty-five percent of respondents queried April 6 - 9 said they have an unfavorable view of Islam, a rise from 36 percent in February. And the public’s impression of Islam has diminished even more compared with four years ago. In February 2002 – less than six months after the terrorist attacks of September 11 – the country was evenly divided in its impression of Islam.
WHAT IS YOUR IMPRESSION OF ISLAM?
FAVORABLE
Now
19%2002
30%UNFAVORABLE
Now
45%2002
33%Thirty-six percent of respondents said they haven’t heard enough or don’t know enough to say either way.
Americans today are also more likely than not to believe that Islam encourages violence, at least in comparison to other religions around the world.
As it happens, I just wrote an article about this in another connection. Here is a relevant excerpt for those who will now begin Islamophobia-hunting in earnest:
If Muslims around the world don’t want Islam to be perceived as encouraging violence, they should take these five steps:1. Stop committing violent acts.
2. Stop justifying those violent acts by reference to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
3. Stop saying violent or hateful things in private when they think no non-Muslims are around. For example, the imam Umar Abdul-Jalil, executive director of ministerial services for the New York City Department of Correction, was secretly recorded last year while speaking at an Islamic conference in Arizona. Muslims, he said, invoking Qur’an 48:29, must be "compassionate with each other" and "hard against the kufr [unbeliever]." In Britain, Hamid Ali, imam of the mosque frequented by the July 7 bombers, praised the bombers and called their terror attack "good" in a conversation secretly recorded by an undercover journalist. Publicly, he had condemned the attacks. In a mosque in the Czech Republic, a Muslim secretly filmed by a documentary filmmaker says Islamic Shari’a law, including the stoning of adulterers, should be adopted by the Czech Republic. Cleveland imam Fawaz Damra, who has since been deported for failing to disclose his ties to terror groups, signed the Fiqh Council of North America’s condemnation of terrorism, despite having declared at an Islamic conference that "terrorism, and terrorism alone, is the path to liberation."
Do such incidents mean that every Muslim who professes to have adopted Western notions of pluralism and the equality of dignity and rights of non-Muslims and Muslims is dissembling? Of course not. But they do mean that non-Muslims are perfectly justified in being suspicious of Muslim protestations of moderation and opposition to terror. Consequently deeds, not just words, are needed. To conclude my five recommendations, genuinely anti-terror Muslims should:
4. Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
5. Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.
The enemy of America. Always has been, always will be. Unless we stop it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html
Thank you Jihadwatch, for leading this charge. The internet made it possible. I would like to see this negative perception of Islam deepened. The stupidity of Muslim leaders and violence emanating from the general Muslim popluation helps too. However, I suspect that very few of the people who have a negative view of Islam actually know how well-founded their ideas about it are, how clear on violence, hate and intolerance the canonical texts of Islam are. All infidels have to do is read the Quran and Hadith to see the horrible truth. This is our greatest advantage.
CAIR has been distributing free Qurans via their site:
https://www.cair-net.org/explorethequran/request.asp
I encourage everyone to request one today. Much like the west provides the technology which Islamic terrorists use against us, CAIR is providing the ammunition to expose Islam. Plus, the Quran they are giving away is a very nice one, heavy and ornate. Every dime they spend distributing hate literature is a dime less they have for lawsuits.
I've never liked pushiness or preachiness. I hated my Communist profs in college, and I hate the leaders of Islam today. People who think they can run the world from their party headquarters or mosque are meglomaniacal and dangerous.
Freedom is a hard sell because I don't know what you should do with your life. You have to figure that out. If you're unhappy, I don't have all the answers. If you're poor, all I can think of is try to up your skills to make more money. It's just boring and practical reality, nothing like feeling superior to all those around you and knowing you can break all the rules of economics, human behavior, and history to create the global utopia of your dreams.
History tells us utopians always create dystopias.
How could I, a true believer in Enlightenment values, have a positive opinion of Islam? The more I study it and listen to Islamic leaders the less I'm going to like it. Rationally looking at the evidence and trying to draw a reasonable inference suggests I should be very careful about which Muslims with whom I might associate. The more they defend the Qur'an and Sunna the more likely they are to kill me and not feel one iota of remorse.
Who could possibly deny that and support it with evidence?
Only the EU, UN, State Department, President Bush, Arab League, academia, CAIR, ACLU, and the mainstream media - minus the evidence clause.
That poll sure scares the crap out of me. That means there's 65% of people out there walking the streets with a positive or neutral view of Islam. Yikes!
FAVORABLE
Now
19%
How in the world can anyone think islam is a good thing? Nearly 20% of people just haven't been paying attention.
http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html
Thanks Quijybo (as I recall, a big, dumb, balding North American ape--with a short temper).
I've requested my copy of the Qur'an from our pals at CAIR. But that rasies a question: What are the chances that CAIR's Qur'an will include the Hadith and Sunnah?
My impression of Islam on 9/10/2001:
-completely negative (from having read their playbook and commentaries years before. E.G.: Sura 9:29-30, ad nauseam).
My impression on 9/11/2001:
Confirmed.
My impression of 19% of current Americans:
"No one ever went broken underestimating the intelligence of the American people."- H.L. Mencken.
Notice that the two CULTS on that poll have the highest unfavorable marks by a huge margin: Islam and Scientology.
This is not a coincidence. People know in their hearts what is false.
"Although Americans believe they are better informed about Islam than they were five years ago, a new CBS News poll finds fewer than one in five say their impression of the religion is favorable."
LOL. You have to love the inference in that first line. Let me interpret for CBS: "Despite the fact that Americans say they understand Islam better, they are still ignorant bigots that have a growing distate for the 'Religion of Peace'."
I'd love to know how many Muslims work for each major news company.
Oh, and South Park didn't show Muhammad last night.
Yes Foehammer, looks like South Park p*%&d out, as they said. I watched that total waste of time, now I can go back to ignoring Trey and Matt, like before.
I think it was Comedy Central's decision, not Trey and Matt. At least, that's what the blurb on the screen stated. If anyone knows differently, please post here and clarify.
In the meantime, I wanted to make a point today:
http://www.foehammer.net/2006/04/south-park-comedy-central-pusses-out.html
These five suggestions if accepted and implemented by the present Islamic World, there will be no Islam. In other words islam can't be changed. Islam is written on granite, no one can erase it,if somebody tries, this granite will only be broken and not erased.
IMHO, islamists brought all this on themselves. If they would have kept their jihad to themselves, and not brought it on us, no one would have given a second thought to islam.
But no, they had to show jealousy of the West and show their violence. Before 9/11 I knew little or nothing and cared little or nothing about islam. I knew nothing about their whiny pathetic gawd-awful silly beliefs.
And to know that they use certain stones to stone women or to wipe with is just TOO much insane information.
Mohammed was portrayed on an earlier episode of South Park as a member of the "Super Justice Friends."
I think it's always difficult to know what's real and what's a joke when it comes to South Park and its creators. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if Comedy Central did wimp out.
There are many in the world who barely know anything about islam. If not for the internet, there would be many more. We certainly don't hear enough about it in the news. Plus, much of what I have heard in the media in this country is so "touchy/feeley" that there is no way to require an educated opinion about it unless one has enough interest to look deeper.
There is not enough information going around. It seems to me that most of us are just living our lives with no thought of what is going on around us!
Islam is definately a serious threat to the world, but illegal aliens are a very serious danger to this country right now - today. Who knows how many terrorists are in this country and crossing into it every day because of our poor border control! We should all contact our leaders and express our concern and demand that they take action. Tell them we want the borders SECURED - RIGHT NOW!
RS from above: Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
Now there's a formidable task...I dont think you can separate Islamic supremacism and jihad. They are two sides of the same coin...Like any other government, force, or the threat of it, is needed to maintain power. The powerless can never be supreme, so jihad is a necessary ingrediant in the grabbing off, and maintaining of power. Islam is the perfect religion with the perfect Prophet, so in the minds of submitters it is supreme. And because Allah is in charge, it is good. But as Tolstoy pointed out, 'The good cannot seek power nor retain it. To do that men must love power, and love of power is inconsistant with goodness...'
Islam is in the business of grabbing off and maintaining power. I dont think they will give that up soon...but it's a good thought...
Quijybo said
Holy moly, I hope that is not true. If their negative view is just based on prejudice or "gut feeling" or xenophobia, then it can be easily reversed by the taqiyyah masters. We need to keep spreading the knowledge about what is in the Qur'an and the hadith, because that cannot be easily refuted. That is the achilles heel of Islam: Mohammad actually wrote down his violent and hateful desires and deeds. It's there for all to see. Just like those video tapes that sometimes pop up on the news, where criminals stupidly film themselves doing criminal acts, laughing and posing for the camera. I guess they take a little too much pride in their evilness.
Read these.
http://mnnonline.org/article/8474
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4289
henry said
And what are they going to spend their bribery money on when sharia law is enacted? Are they going to buy jewel-encrusted Qur'ans? Or are they just going to have to pay it back as jizya tax? What country are they going to be able to flee to?
No, they are retarded (no offense to the developmentally disabled). Whether they are Democrats or Republicans, politicians or business leaders or reporters. They are retarded.
I think there's a problem with Robert Spencer's list of suggestions for all Muslims. Those people who are constantly vigilant for "Islamophobia" will as a consequence be reasonably justified in objecting to Spencer's prescriptions -- the first two, most notably:
1. Stop committing violent acts.
2. Stop justifying those violent acts by reference to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
People who are constantly vigilant for "Islamophobia" will be reasonably justified in responding that most Muslims are not doing either one of these things; and that therefore, Spencer is talking about a small (indeed, very small) minority out of the overall Muslim populations. They would further object that Spencer is conflating this very small minority with the overall aggregate of all Muslims and, at the very least, implying that all Muslims are comitting violent acts and justifying them.
I would suggest therefore that Spencer revise or reformulate this list to anticipate such criticisms.
One revision or reformulation would take into account more frontally the phenomenon of passive or co-dependent enabling, whereby the majority of Muslims who are not doing #1 and #2 are, nevertheless, through a subtle sociological, psychological and cultural process, supporting and nourishing them.
However, I would take a more radical approach.
This 5-point Plan could be boiled down to a 1-point Plan:
1. Stop talking about Islam as though it were a political entity -- specifically, stop talking about the "self-defense" of Islam in any terms other than strictly ideological, and stop talking about "Islamic laws". Leave all non-ideological defense of Islam up to secular authorities who will, based on secular non-Islamic laws, do their best to protect Muslims (as they protect any other groups under their oversight) whenever they might be threatened.
Secial guest...'holy moly' refers to the large hairy mole in the middle of Mohammads back. It was said to be a sign of his divine connections with Allah...Now, you got to admit that thats a complicated concept. It requires a superlarge leap into gullibility. Stupidity almost...Sort of like the sun sets in a muddy spring or the world is flat, or the famous 'giant spiders'. If Islam was not so dangerous, it could be/is, the source of never ending jokes...
Turn off the television...or at least change the channel...
Hi all,
I'm a Hindu from India.
The survey certainly shows more Americans are at least AWARE of the evil religiofascist death cult ISLAM. No country suffered more at the hands of the merciless jihadis than my country. According to American historian Will Durant the Islamic invasion of India was the "bloodiest story in history.", with a direct death toll of 50 to 60 million men, women and children. And I'd like to send a message to all people, but especially Americans: You built the greatest nation on earth with your inventions, your enterprising spirit and your commitment to freedom, democracy, justice and peace. (REAL Peace, not the Islamic kind). You led the world in humanity's pursuit to make it a better palce for us all. And I firmly believe you can take even this dark challenge on, take the fight to the enemy and WIN. On behalf of all Indians (except Indian Muslims) I say: WE ARE WITH YOU. GOD BLESS YOU. WE WILL PREVAIL!!
This is probably because there are too many incidents of Islamic violence for anyone to any longer believe all religions have an equal capacity for violence. This is probably because Islam has become an "in your face" religion and because the fundamentalists insist the world become Islamic like it or not. The world is "considering" Islam and perhaps the world does not like it! Once hapless infidels also are beginning to question the victimization status claimed by Moslems. Do you remember a time when a Moslem had to ride the back of a bus or could not eat in a restaurant or had to use a separate toilet? Perhaps the infidels are already hearing the term "Islamaphobia" as a deceitful defensive term calculated to prohibit discussion. As my teen said recently, what is irrational in the fear of Islam? Did I not see the towers of the world trade center collapsing? Perhaps the world is feeling "Islamo threatened." The word "Islamophobic" makes little sense when someone's fear is real and not imagined. Even King Kong was compassionate enough not to knock down the buildings.
Although...!!
I think that Islamists have a point complaining about their media image. No matter how much taqiyya the media spread, no matter how much PC they preach, they cannot avoid telling about Muslim violence; first, because of their own insatiable greed for violence - "if it bleeds, it leads" - and second because the issue dominates the relationship with Islam, however you look at it. Even the hysterical repetition of the religion of peace mantra does nothing but draw attention to the intentions of Islam - peaceful or not. What the Islamists really want is that complete silence should fall on all their crimes; as long as it does not, even CBS and the New Jerk Dimes are their enemies.
I think the only ones saying there was anything good about Islam were people too lazy to look into it for themselves.
I wanted to know why 9/11 happened and why there was no outcry form the Muslim world. And why whenever there was a denouncement of 9/11 it was always padded with excuses.
Thanks to sites like this and the books and authors one discovers here, anyone can easily discover for oneself that there is nothing at all favorable about Islam.
Islam is a cult (I shrink from calling it a religion) that is all about duplicity and deception. So it is no wonder there is always that little voice of Islam saying "except..." after the outward voice says "We are very much opposed to terrorism" The ends justifies any means, for Islam.
To realize that Islam must be spread by the sword and by cruel oppression of non-Muslims is to understand why it is spreading so rapidly in the word. It engulfs like the flames of a raging forest fire. No person can bear to live under the weight of Islam who is not a Muslim.
This behavior is not the outward signs of a good and decent religion at all.
duh_swami said
Yuck, that's a mental image I could do without. It brings up the question though, if it is blasphemy to draw a stick-man and write "Mohammad" underneath it, is it also blasphemy to use words to describe the physical appearance of Mohammad ("he was 5'10, black wavy hair parted on the side with flies crawling around in it, etc.")? If not, why not? Either an image, or a description of an image, brings up a mental image in the mind of the viewer. I have to admit that the rules of Islam don't make alot of sense to me. Which I guess is why I must be killed.
Chinubhai,
Muslims call themselves Indians,( but they aren't) just because they live there, and were welcomed there. Sad, that most of them are just using that as an excuse to build mosques, and "schools" all over the place- waiting to rise up in droves, at any slight "perceived" insult to their so called religion. I've never seen a restaurant or store run by the pakistanis called, "Pakistan House". It's always India House, Indian Spices House, Indian Carpets, Indian Jewellers.
What does that mean?
Has anyone seen any angry, hate- filled marches by Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, or others in any muslim country??
More people need to wake up!
Thank GOD for Jihad WATCH!
If Muslims around the world don’t want Islam to be perceived as encouraging violence, they should take these five steps:
I gotta disagree. They should take the one step: renounce Islam. Maybe denounce it too. And for goodness sake after the newly-free apostate should try to keep his head.
People generally know what is wrong, and once you have curious people looking for more information as the Western people do, they will come to sites like this and find out the real truth about Islam. even before l knew what was in the Koran, l had a gut feeling it was wrong and bad, common sense tells you that when they make half their population cover themselves up, control every aspect of their life, this is a cult! the more people read and learn and pass along the information the more progress we will have. its too bad the "old media" does not get it yet! but thanks to the Internet we can find truth!
thanksyou Mr.Robert Spencer and all those who work for this website!!
I'm glad to see the results of this poll on Islam, and frankly I'm surprised that America's impression of the "Religion of Peace" isn't MUCH lower.
I've taken today's opportunity to post several pics on WHY Americans are distrustful of Islam. I hope this story generates a lot of discussion on radical Islam and all it's done in the past decade.
Thank you for keeping up with this aggressive evil we call Jihad.
duh-swami, your dismissal of my post, and the otherwise complete lack of comment by others to my post, ignores a basic point: Spencer's first two points will tend to ensure that most people will dismiss this site as extremist. I would suggest that a subtler, cleverer tack be taken. Telling all Muslims to "stop committing violent acts" is tantamount to asserting that all Muslims are committing violent acts, which is absurd. Thus, that 5-point Plan needs to be reformulated to accomodate the subtler dimensions of the problem. If it's not reformulated, but repeated (Spencer has already republished it twice recently), I think it will tend to alienate a slim majority of Americans -- those 19% who are favorable to Islam and those 36% who are on the fence.
There, I donated 4 cents (my two cents twice); don't worry, it won't rise to a nickel's worth.
I thought Durant's number was 70-80 million dead, mostly Hindus but also some Janes and Sieks thrown in for good measure.
http:www.voi.org
MO KORANS MO HADITHS MO SIRATS MO MOONBATS MO BRICK BATS MO MO MO
... find out the real truth about Islam. even before l knew what was in the Koran, l had a gut feeling it was wrong and bad, common sense tells you that...
At college we had a lotta Pakis, among other foreigners. They pretty much took up a whole city block right off of campus.
That's when I first sensed it. Just looking across the street, playing chess on the porch, scowling, no women, just this dour intensity.
Then I'd look down to Dunn Meadow in front of the Student Union. Lotsa Hindus there playing cricket and soccer and what not. Smiling their asses off, running in the sun, chicks everywhere.
So, being a freshman, I concluded that these Pakis happened to be gay, weren't very good at it, and the botched sex had them all pissed off.
AND stop teaching their kids that non-muslims are unclean, and to be classed with pigs, dogs and excrement.
AND stop allowing young girls to be abused by dirty old men
AND stop treating women and non-muslims as second and third class citizens
AND probably a few others, but that will do to be going on with.
Yeah I agree with you there Television.. though Robert has his strategy figured out perfectly most of the time.. I really admire the man. It takes some guts, being a Robert Spencer or an Ali Sina..
In taking those five steps a muslim would have to ignore, reinterpret, disown ... whatever ... up to 164+ verses of the Quran concerning jihad.
Even the moderate muslims will not attempt this.
And if there was a miracle and moderate muslims took those five steps ... it will only be temporary for the radical muslims until they can go full jihad ahead again.
Quran, hadith and actual history of Islam is very clear that it will share the world only to reach the ulitmate goal of Islam in dominating all of the world.
Anything short would be defeat!
Of course Free Worlders are increasingly taking a dim view of Islam, and rightly so.
The bad ones continue to kill in the name of Islam.
Most of the good ones are silent about it out of fear... or out of their faith? Who knows? And many of them in the Free World, the prominent Muslim leaders, largely refuse to unequivocally denounce terrorism and refuse to turn their backs on the evildoers in their faith. Instead, they condemn the Free World for "intolerance" or "hatred" or "ignorance"... which is bizarre to the infinite degree, considering what we're learning about Islam, the Koran and Mohammed... as well as remembering 9/11, the Intifada, the beheadings, hangings, shootings, rapes, you name it...
Whatever happens, it clearly is the fault of Islam. Not the fault of the Free World, who even now continues to bend over backwards to accommodate Muslims despite everything.
APF
That figure of 70-80m is very low, given that it only covers until the 1500s. But the Moghul empire started in 1526, and ran until 1761. If one counts the numbers massacred under Muslim regimes in that period, the total would be more like 100-150m.
FreetoBEfree
Indian Muslims rarely travel to the US - most of those who don't stay in India migrate to the Gulf. Any Indian looking Muslims that one would see here is more likely to be from Pakistan or Bangladesh. There are a few halal restaurants that they have here & there; I have no idea why they call them Indian/Pakistani, since they tend to be mainly halal dishes, not the same as the ones sold by Indian restaurants.
On the original topic itself, it's good that 45% have few illusions about Islam, but the plurality aint good enough. We need such polls to be more along the lines of the MSNBC online poll a while ago, that ended with an unfavorable number of 70%.
More to the point, I'd like to see the demographic splitup - how many Republicans tend to see Islam negatively, vs. how many Democrats. Once we know that, we know where we have our work cut out for us. Since Jews and Hindus in the US tend Democratic (myself not included), it would be nice if they were to try and influence opinion in the party leadership. Similarly, on the GOP side too, Newt, Tancredo, Weldon notwithstanding, we have work to do. Some good talk hosts like Lee Rodgers, Melanie Morgan, Michaels Medved & Savage, Bill Handel have no illusions, while others, like Rush and Hannity need to be re-educated. If we win the talk show circuit, the GOP can be won back from Bush's Republican Guards.
Also funny how the article featured the Ameristan flaf - the stars and stripes becoming a crescent and stripes.
Robert
This is my first time on this website commentary and I wanted to make a comment regarding your suggestions above.
Islam is a very old religion, but we are not an organisation where every Mosque is connected to another by some telephone system
There are many denominations in Islam and each preaches its own as does the Christian, Jewish and other faiths.
I agree with you statement that we must stop this violence, but then the violence against ordinary Moslems must also by eliminated.
In resonse to your statements I would suggest
1. Stop committing violent acts.
A1. Leave our holy lands and stop trying to impose a western style set of values that are no more moral or principled than our own.
2. Stop justifying those violent acts by reference to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
I agree with this in part, but when a people are
oppressed by whoever they must resort to violence to free themselves.
A good example is Ireland and Spain
3. Stop saying violent or hateful things in private when they think no non-Muslims are around.
I believe that this happens everywhere and i think it is human nature to do this.
4. Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
I think this is a good Idea, but this takes time and most moslems are to busy trying to survive and lead a normal life iwtout interference.
5. Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.
I do not this this is feasible, it would be like asking the common person to take time away from their day to help the police.
you must remember that as in the west the police are not always popular with the public.
thank you fortime to answer these questions
"Leave our holy lands and stop trying to impose a western style set of values that are no more moral or principled than our own." Says Ibrahim.
Ibrahim, you need to understand that the death penalty for apostasy,the death penalty for blasphemy, hand amputation for theft, stoning to death for adultery and homosexuality, and flogging for lesser crimes NEVER WERE AND NEVER CAN BE considered as an "alternate set of values" or anything of the kind. It is pure bloodthirsty barbarity that belongs in the last millenium, not in this one.
You may be a "moderate muslim", just trying to get on with your life like anyone else, but who knows? Some day someone like Abu Hamza might inspire you to become a TRUE BELIEVER..
Ibrahim:
We'll leave your holy lands when you leave ours and quit dividing the world between Dar Al-Islam and Dar Al-harb. The whole notion that the "other" is a bellicose enemy by default is indicative of just how bellicose Islam is at its ideological core.
And no, Ireland and Spain aren't good examples for you. Factions of the IRA were willing to work toward a political solution and the violent factions have since proven to be violent criminals who just happened to support the Republican cause. ETA, the Basque terrorist organization, recently agreed to lay down arms without achieving much of anything other than murdering hundreds of unarmed civilians and possibly that they were willing to play the "my enemy's enemy is my friend game" by aiding and abet Muslim terrorists
I think when you have a lot of Hollywood films coming out like Kingdom of Heaven, a lot of average americans are just going to continue to be in the dark about Islam
Change the 'although' to 'because' and it starts to make sense!
CHINUBHAI:
I'm glad you're on our side, because the day might yet come where we are going to need those millions of Indians to bolster us (USA) in a world conflict. I wish I didn't have to even say that, but sadly, it's seeming to be more and more of an inescapable future.
In 1942 300 movies with an anti-Nazi theme were made in Hollywood. Since 2001 no movies coming close to hinting at what is preached in mosques, memorized in madrasas, the subtext of every conversation, the subject of all cultural allusions -- that is, what is contained in Qur'an and Hadith, and all the details of Muhammad's life, and the long history of Muslim Jihad-conquest and subjugation, sometimes extremely harsh if the ruler was a true Believer, sometimes less so if he was less than fervent (Akbar even ended the imposition of the Jizyah, which after his reign was re-imposed).
Where are those movies? No one can cleverly figure out how to insinuate the knowledge the public needs to have, and the attitudes it will need to have (if it is to keep pressure on negligent or lazy or ignorant or indifferent politicians), into their films? No one thinks this is an important task, no one is willing to push this?
I agree with you Hugh, but can't you just imagine the rioting?? We would never get them to stop burning buildings, cars, shooting each other,crying, burning flags....eh, did I say shooting each other?
hehe...hehehe....hehehehehehehehehehehehe
Who knows how many terrorists are in this country and crossing into it every day because of our poor border control! We should all contact our leaders and express our concern and demand that they take action. Tell them we want the borders SECURED - RIGHT NOW!
Posted by: bamabelle at April 13, 2006 12:10 PM
___
Be an American.
Be courageous,
Irritate your Senators and Congressmen.
Take a couple of minutes and email or write your Senators and Congressmen. There address can be found at the following link.
http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html
Freedom is being destroyed by illegal aliens and untold terrorists that have crossed our borders.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
I love polls. You can get whatever results you seek by crouching the questions a certain way and using your call list to the left or right.
There are truths, lies and polls.
Ibrahim: "Leave our holy lands and stop trying to impose a western style set of values that are no more moral or principled than our own."
Leave your holy lands? Who are you referring to? No westerners are flocking to your "holy lands". Where westerners have shown up there in recent decades it has been at the invitation of Muslims themselves - in Kuwait, the Balkans, Saudi Arabia, even Iraq - requesting western help to protect Muslims themselves, most often at the hands of fellow Muslims. While meanwhile some 25 MILLION muslims have migrated to the west while boldly declaring their intentions to literally conquer our western societies by Islam over time. That's 25 MILLION Muslims in the west (to date), living off our generous western welfare systems, overbreeding like "mosquitos", to quote a prominent imam in Norway, preaching jihad in the mosques in OUR lands, and making all the sorts of demands to change our culture that we followers of JW/DW are all too familiar with.
And if you don't mean us westerners, then are you referring to the native Eastern Jews and Christians that you've been routinely killing and ethnically cleansing from your "holy" lands for centuries? You certainly don't need to exhort them to leave your "holy" lands. You've quite successfully driven them out already through your incessant violence and intimidation and genocidal practices.
Leave your holy lands? But what part of the world doesn't rightfully belong to you, according to your own "holy" texts? Where precisely ARE the rest of us infidels to go when the whole planet belongs to Muslims?
And BTW - if you so despise what you call "western values", then what on earth are you doing on the internet? Or has it escaped your notice that the internet itself is a prime example of the very fruits of western values - freedom of inquiry, freedom to question and explore, freedom of thought, in short freedom of every sort, that you so dismiss in your comment. That's where science comes from, from what you disparagingly refer to as "western values".
So how about you put your money where your mouth is (that's a western expression) - and unplug your computer, turn off your TV, cancel your cell phone (invented by Jews, BTW), and stay out of OUR lands, because that would be pretty hypocritical after all, wouldn't you admit, to migrate en masse to OUR western lands and to make such free use of OUR western technologies as you are so obviously doing when you post here, while simultaneously claiming that our western principles are no better than your own. It's sheer hypocrisy. You must know that. Or doesn't that word exist in the Muslim world?
Caroline, I was about to respond to Ibrahim, but you saved me the trouble. What else is there to say? Great reply!
"It takes a village", susanp :-)
Where are those movies?
Hugh, you should read Hugh Fitzgibbon's essay from a few week's ago where he decried the sad state of education in the West these days.
Next, read the Master himself, the sensei, Marshall McLuhan. After that, you're looking at three things:
1) An elite that has been brainwashed with bullcrap by fraudulent professors inculcating fake facts, who took it all down the gullet hook-line-and-sinker, like sweating carp, gagging on the banks
2) Corrupted language and permissable public discourse boundaries rolled-out without review and without challenge (some call this political correctness, a term that is a form of surrender, I call it Fictive Reality)
3) An organic, self-organizing, self-managing system of viciously enforced self-censorship (this is where Orwell was wrong, and where Tim Russert shines)
Gotta love what mohammedans consider their "holy land". If Mad Mo stopped to take a c..p there, its holy land. If he pulled his camel over to get a falafel sandwich, its holy land. If someone told him about a place and he had an hallucination or fever dream about it, its holy land. Mohammedans think they have an overriding right to Jerusalem because their psychotic progenitor told them he went there in a dream? Are you friggin' kidding me?
Eisenhund wrote:
If he pulled his camel over to get a falafel sandwich, its holy land.
OMG, I'm still laughing at that one...!
Maybe if the Prez. told the American Public the truth about Islame, then his poll numbers would climb out of the toilet.
"Where are those movies? No one can cleverly figure out how to insinuate the knowledge the public needs to have, and the attitudes it will need to have (if it is to keep pressure on negligent or lazy or ignorant or indifferent politicians), into their films? No one thinks this is an important task, no one is willing to push this? "
I wonder whether Nazism would have been protected from criticism if it had disguised itself as a religion? People need to clearly understand that islamism is not a religion but a totalitarian political movement before these movies will be accepted.
Bush says Islam is a religion of peace.....And now he and Islam share about the same percentage of popularity. Looks like Islam is swirling around in the bowl, waiting to take the plunge.
Caroline, Bravo! well said.
CHINUBHAI, welcome! we will need the help all the all the worlds cultures to stop the threat of Jihad, Da'wa and Dihimmitude.
My Indian co-worker, who I introduced to Jihadwatch tells me that attitudes are hardening in India towards Islam and the Mulsim communities special privilege especially as it applies to the law.
He came back from a resent trip to India and tells me that he spent much of the time explaining the current danger of Islamic expansion and Dihimmitude ( in India's case less then Dihimmitude ) to his friends and relations to great affect.
Welcome, we are all in this together.
Ibrahim-
"Holy" is not "ours" or "yours".
This kind of infantile arrogance will spell your cult's end.
Holy is a higher vision, not a mound of dirt.
It is not localizable, but aspirational.
In the words of one who knew:
"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: to be satisifed with your opinions and content with your knowledge"
-Elbert Hubbard.
Like the paralysis of "perfect" and "eternal" Koran.
Ibrahim's "leave our holy lands" theme is common to all jihadi groups - just look at BinLaden's or Zarqawi's video "messages" to the world. I lived in the Gulf for a couple years and the simple reason why there are Americans, Europeans, and Asian "Pagans" there is the Arab locals are too brainless and too lazy to get off their fat ass and do anything - ALL BUSINESSES THERE ARE RUN BY A SLEEPING ARAB PARTNER AND AN ACTIVE INFIDEL, (mostly Indian). If all the infidels were to leave, the entire economy would crash, with the productive workforce gone at all levels.
Television...excuse the abruptness of my prior post...I have a few problems with your ideas.
"Stop talking about Islam as though it were a political entity..."
Islam 'is' a political entity. It has its own heirarchy, its own laws, (Sharia) and courts. It has its own army, (jihadists), and it can levy and collect taxes on submitters and dhimmi's alike. It is in effect a government. A political entity. Because of that FACT the rest of your #1 has no meaning.
From the top:'most Muslims are not doing either one of these things... (violent acts or justifications for them...
Of course not 'all' muslims are committing violent acts. During WW2, not 'all'Nazi's burned Jews in ovens, but they were Nazi's none the less. They 'all' subscribed to the ideas of their prophet Adolph. This made them in sympathy with their Nazi brothers who 'were' murdering and burning Jews.
Possibly you dont know that 'all' muslims are 'obligated' to support and participate in jihad. 'All' is hardly a tiny minority. "Passive or co-dependent enabling,", 'supporting and nourishing', also makes them cohorts for Allah, accessories to crime, and willing participants and partners with a shared ideology. When you count numbers of an enemy force, you include non combatants.
They are all in the same army...The army of god, fighting in Allahs cause...Jihadists all, by Islams own definition.
Which is exactly why all infidels - American Christians, Indian Hindus, Phillipino Catholics, et al should leave that shithole. Indians today have no reason to flock there - in India, the annual raise is 12%. Americans, even those working in the Oil industry, should avoid that place. And a lot of high tech companies have manufacturing or test facilities in the Phillipines.
This isn't just spite. Despite what the infidels there do, they have few rights. I have known a few people who did live and work there, and here are some experiences:
Given all that, the best thing for everyone involved would be to leave immigrant Muslims in these countries, and let them work for the Arabs. If between them, they can achieve anything, well and good. If they can't, Allah (PBUH) knows best.
Jihad in Indonesia: Another Abdul Rahman!
There are reports that the Indonesian authorities are planning to execute this month, Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus da Silva and Marianus Riwu, three Christians who were sentenced to death in 2003 for alleged involvement in deadly clashes with Muslims in the religiously-divided district of Poso in central Sulawesi, Indonesia.
There is much evidence to indicate that these three men are innocent, yet the Indonesian courts have simply ignored this evidence and appear to have a strong bias against them because they are Christians.
While the courts in central Sulawesi appear very ready to convict Christians for alleged offences, they have yet to convict and punish even one Muslim for involvement in Muslim-Christian conflict or for conducting terrorist attacks against Christians in central Sulawesi. This raises a crucial question: Why, when Christians in central Sulawesi are being subjected to ongoing terrorist attacks and were not the only people fighting in the Muslim-Christian conflict there some years ago, do the Indonesian authorities convict and punish only Christians in that region?
For example, on 29 October 2005, four Christian schoolgirls in central Sulawesi were violently attacked by Muslim militants. Three of the girls were beheaded and one seriously injured. The Indonesian authorities have yet to apprehend the killers of these girls and prosecute and punish them, and so far have failed to prosecute and punish any of those responsible for terrorist attacks against Christians in central Sulawesi.
Agence France Presse (AFP) reported on 7 April that the Indonesian President has once again denied clemency to the three Christians sentenced to death for their alleged roles in Muslim-Christian conflict in central Sulawesi, Indonesia. AFP reported that Indonesian police said on Thursday 6 April, that they had prepared a firing squad to execute the three men and were awaiting instructions from provincial prosecutors.
These three Christians were not given a fair trial and are innocent. The judge in the trial neglected even to consider the testimonies of 13 different witnesses (including the defendants themselves) that would have exonerated them. These men tried to help unarmed Christians who were under violent attack from Muslims and were in no way responsible for inciting the conflict or committing murder.
Irwanto Hasan, who at the time was a member of the Poso Police Intelligence Division, testified that the defendants were in fact engaged in a humanitarian exercise when they were arrested. They had come to Poso after hearing reports that a Catholic Church there had been burned in the sectarian violence. They entered the conflict zone to evacuate children from a church-run school in the village of Moengko. On the morning of 23 May 2000, a Muslim mob entered the village and set fire to the church-run school. The three defendants and the students escaped out the back door whilst the building was burnt to the ground.
Source : Open Doors UK
ibrahim,
Just a gentle correction. When it comes to the "Holy Land ", it is not yours or mines, it is God's. When ground is holy it belongs to him not to any human person.
Television -- you seem to have a good point about Robert's strategy.
Hugh -- your questions about a movie raise hopes.
I suppose actors/directors are so reluctant in part because it would be like going up against a huge international mafioso. Just the 1% of British Muslims who expressed in a poll a while back the willingness to engage in terrorism amounts to 16,000 people. And as I recall another 4% -- which would be 60,000 British Muslims or so -- expressed a willingness to support, if not actually engage in terrorism. Now worldwide, 1% (which actually seems too low) of a 1.2 billion Muslims would be 12 million people who can serve as a pool of hitmen. And maybe 100 million or more supportive. Virtually all the rest not objecting, or passively supportive. What actor director or writer wants to go up against a mafioso of that size? Where could he run to or hide?
We aren't sufficiently aware of this 'mafioso effect' with regard to Islam, because self-censorship is so invisible. Except on the internet, self-censorship has completely warped the information profile we receive about Islam. In one sense it's worse than external censorship, because the person who self-censors may not only never mention it to anyone; he may never even quite acknowledge it to himself. Media groups spontaneously collaborate to be hush-hush about Islam for a mix of reasons, often barely half thought through. On the surface: "let's be polite, let's be generous, let's not be bigoted." Or: "let's avoid lawsuits, protests, ostracism, losing our jobs." In a deeper layer of the mind: "Could my family be injured or attacked? Could I be killed?" And: "Is it my responsibility to protect my coworkers or underlings from possible Muslim reprisals? Should I risk their lives over a mere news story?" No conspiracy is necessary, media people just sense what is risky and act accordingly in concert. So the public rarely ever sees that the information profile on Islam is warped through self-censorship due to the Muslim mafioso effect.
CHINUBHAI -- It's great to see democratic India turning into a real powerhouse now. And I don't say that just because I've noticed that Indian woman sometimes look just like incredible Hindu temple goddess sculptures I've seen.
Paolo -- glad you liked the post of a few days ago -- I responded to your response but the next morning the story had already receded into the JW archives.
-- Omar Malomaari
The Islamists' talk of a "Zionist-controlled-media" and their alliance with leftist papers backed by Saudi oil money is just part of THEIR attempt to subvert free and unbiased reporting.. Its happening everywhere and it really is dangerous because "The people who run the information run the show". How many of the Islamist attacks, murders, Mullah-rants(even in the U.S)we read about here get reported in the main papers, on the main tv networks? If at all, its couched in careful PC tones about cultural differences. When Moussaoui talks about the Koranic inspiration for his acts, LISTEN!
Be thankful folks for the reality of the internet. This is why it must be protected because it is where the truth about Islam can be freely viewed.
www.islamquest.blogspot.com
"I suppose actors/directors are so reluctant in part because it would be like going up against a huge international mafioso. Just the 1% of British Muslims who expressed in a poll a while back the willingness to engage in terrorism amounts to 16,000 people. And as I recall another 4% -- which would be 60,000 British Muslims or so -- expressed a willingness to support, if not actually engage in terrorism. Now worldwide, 1% (which actually seems too low) of a 1.2 billion Muslims would be 12 million people who can serve as a pool of hitmen. And maybe 100 million or more supportive. Virtually all the rest not objecting, or passively supportive. What actor director or writer wants to go up against a mafioso of that size? Where could he run to or hide? "
Also take into consideration that the worldwide Muslim community that the reason why they do have a making of being a worldwide
"mafioso" is because they are living in a state of fear themselves. They are even fearful of a even bigger group-The worldwide Christian community which is well over 2 billion and will this Easter weekend get even bigger with the addition of new members coming into the Christian church worldwide. Thanks to a growing Christian community in the global south, the death of a beloved pope, and a sucessful movie on the Passion of Jesus, movie non-Christians are coming into the Christian fold. This includes former Muslims. So do not be suprised if there are new attacks on Christian churches in Muslim countris. The Muslims are fighting a losing war.
The 19% who view Islam in a favourable light are either Muslims, braindead Islam-appeasers, or no-hopers too busy watching trash TV and getting pissed to care about anything important. We have to write off this group, and not expect much of a decrease from this group in any future poll.
But, the ... "thirty-six percent of respondents (who) said they haven’t heard enough or don’t know enough to say either way" ... they're a worry. How much more !!!! information and proof do you !!!! need, for !!!! sake? 9/11, Bali, Madrid, Beslan, London, Bali again, beheadings everywhere, rages over rumours and cartoons, veiled threats, blatant threats, Theo Van Gogh, etc., etc., etc. Like, that's not enough?????
duh swami,
"Stop talking about Islam as though it were a political entity..."
"Islam 'is' a political entity."
You seem to be laboring under a major misunderstanding. When I wrote "stop talking about Islam as though it were a political entity", I was addressing Muslims, not non-Muslims. By demanding that they [Muslims] stop talking in this way, I am demanding that they cease to conceive of Islam as a political entity. I believe Muslims will have to cease thinking of Islam in political terms, or Islam will have to be shut down. Other things in history have changed. It wouldn't be impossible for Islam to change. Whether it will change or not, that's another story. One thing is for certain: the day will come when it must change and cease to be political, or it will have to cease existing altogether.
2. Stop justifying those violent acts by reference to the Qur’an and Sunnah.
I agree with this in part, but when a people are
oppressed by whoever they must resort to violence to free themselves.
A good example is Ireland and Spain
There is that BIG Islamic BUT again! lol
Islam is opposed to terrorism, BUT
Islam is a religion of tolerance, BUT
Islam is deceit.
Islam IS violence--institutionalized first-degree murder if you will. There is NO changing this reality. And absolutely NO getting around it.
The results of this survey constitute the most hopeful thing I have heard coming out of the mass media in ages!
Americans ARE getting the picture! In spite of Oprah Winfrey's regrettable attempts to whitewash it on television...
Television: Yes it WOULD be impossible for Islam to change. The minute one attempts to change it, you break its founding principles. Any attempts to change Islam were ruled out at its inception.
Sorry.
Television posted: It wouldn't be impossible for Islam to change.
If Islam changes then it wouldnt be Islam anymore.
"Moderate" Islam.
Do you know of any "Moderate Mafia"?
Does the MS13 gang have moderate reform minded members?