In "The new Malcolm X?" by Philip Sherwell in The Telegraph (thanks to JS), we learn that American Taliban John Walker Lindh is a respected figure among Muslims in prison, that he is deeply devout and dedicated to reading the Qur'an, that he is quiet and gentle, and that some see him as having a great future as an American Muslim leader.
It would be interesting to see, in that event, if he renounced any intention to bring Sharia to America -- but he probably wouldn't, because no one in the public sphere would call upon him to do so. And if he doesn't, then any bridge building and work for social justice that he actually does will only be various forms of da'wa, or the spreading of the Islamic faith. Thus the social justice for which he stands will actually amount to injustice for women and religious minorities.
Lindh, who was given a defence lawyer and taken before an independent civilian court, had pleaded guilty to joining the Taliban and carrying weapons but, in a plea bargain, prosecutors dropped the most serious charge against him, of conspiracy to kill US nationals.The Islamic convert had attended al-Qaeda training camps and met Osama bin Laden, but denied that he was a member of the terror network responsible for the September 11 attacks on his homeland.
Better known simply as the "American Taliban", Lindh, now 25, has largely disappeared from public attention since his imprisonment in October 2002, not least because the terms of his incarceration effectively forbid him from communicating with the outside world. But the Sunday Telegraph has now been given the first account of his life behind bars, provided by a former fellow Muslim inmate and the religious counsellor who visits him in prison. They describe a devout, quiet and scholarly figure who has become a spiritual role model for his fellow Muslims. He has even earned the respect of other prisoners who once condemned him as a "traitor", they said.
This newspaper has also obtained the first prison photograph of Lindh, who goes by the Islamic name of Hamzah. It shows a tall white man, beard down to his chest and wearing a knitted green kufi (prayer cap), standing in the back row of a group of mainly black Muslim inmates who had gathered last November for the Eid celebration that follows the fasting month of Ramadan.
According to Shakeel Syed, his religious adviser, Lindh commands such stature and esteem inside the prison that he is developing into a "softer version" of Malcolm X, the fiery black American Islamic leader who spent much of his life condemning whites as the enemy, only to mellow and preach a message of racial harmony after a pilgrimage to Mecca. "I've told Hamzah that he could become the new Malcolm X," said Mr Syed, the quietly spoken director of the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California. "I'm talking about the later Malcolm X who transcended racist sentiments and nationalism.
"When Hamzah is released, I believe he can become a bridge-builder between faiths and communities, a man who will fight against inequality and for social justice. He smiled at me when I told him that he could play that role in the future, but he is much too modest to say that he agrees."
It would not be the first time that Malcolm X - who was assassinated in 1965, possibly on the orders of his former allies in the militant black Nation of Islam - has played a significant and inspirational role in Lindh's life. As a 12-year-old boy, he first became interested in Islam when his mother took him to the Spike Lee movie, Malcolm X. Lindh was particularly taken, she recalled, by the final scene showing Muslims from around the world bowing down to God.
But for the foreseeable future, Lindh's life will be dictated by the strictures of prison life as well as, in his particular case, the special administrative measures imposed upon him. He is forbidden to talk about events in Afghanistan, to speak Arabic (he was, says Mr Syed, put in solitary confinement for a few days after returning the traditional greeting "salaam wa-alaikum"), to lead prayers or to teach others about Islam. He can receive visits only from his family, lawyer and chaplain.Like most of the other 70 Muslim prisoners - the majority of whom are black American converts to Islam - Lindh eats the vegetarian diet out of concerns that even non-pork meats have not been prepared to halal specifications. He shares a bunk-bedded cell on the prison's ground floor with another white convert, and rises before dawn to pray for the first of five times each day. After breakfast, he goes to work in the prison library and education centre, then joins the other prisoners for lunch, before usually retiring to his cell for much of the afternoon to study the Koran and Islamic texts.
Robert Thompson (who goes by the Muslim name of Abdul Raheem), 52, was recently released from Victorville after serving eight years for bank robbery. He knew Lindh for nearly two years and also describes a pious and studious young man who is held in extremely high esteem by other prisoners. "I would safely predict that right now Hamzah is reading the Koran," he said, during a late-afternoon interview. "I've never seen anyone read a book like Hamzah reads the Koran. He's so quiet and gentle that you often wouldn't know he's there.
"He's a lovely, sweet man. I don't think that the non-Muslims know what to make of him, but they sure respect him. Some people hassled him and called him a traitor at first, but that's long gone."
Asked if Lindh ever expresses regret about how his life has turned out, Thompson laughed. "Of course not. We all know that everything in our lives is decreed by Allah. How can you have regrets when Allah has chosen your path. He tells us not to worry about how others perceive Muslims, that we should just focus on living a good life according to the teachings of the Koran."
…How can you have regrets when Allah has chosen your path. …
Posted by Robert at April 9, 2006 06:17 AM
Sure, when Allah has chosen one’s path – not many are that lucky – one does not have any regret whatsoever.
From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2125660,00.html we have:
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One of the authors who last week failed to win a plagiarism case against Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code has written a new book just in time for Easter to question the very tenets of the Christian faith.
…The Jesus papers in the book’s title are two scrolls supposedly written in Aramaic and found under a house in the old city of Jerusalem in the 1960s. It is claimed they are letters written to the Jewish court, the Sanhedrin, by Jesus, saying he is not the son of God but is filled with the spirit of God.
===
The Holy Quran says, as found in http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=2&mac= :
===
4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
===
Allah knows best.
Johnny Walker Lindh is an American pig who will forever be remembered as a traitor, and a shameful example of what happens to those who convert to the cult of death which is islam... islam is a death sentence, so I guess he got what he deserves.
When Hamzah is released, I believe he can become a bridge-builder between faiths and communities, a man who will fight against inequality and for social justice.
John Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison Friday after tearfully telling a courtroom that he made a mistake in joining the Taliban. ...
It will be a long time before before he fights for social justice and if and when he gets out of prison I doubt he will go around spouting much of anything as he will be a marked man.
Americans will not tolerate him like we do hanoi jane, he would become shaheed with a quickness.
Excuse me if l may Mohideen Ibramsha... This site is'nt about the authenticity of Jebus or is it about a conflict between christianity and islam, which by the way was founded by a rock spider. It's all about muslims religiously obliged to disseminate the islamic faith throughout the world.... If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, muslims are obliged to wage war against them. It is the jihad mentality that is in the war manual muslims call the qur'an that is the issue..
I would really like to see any jihadi sent to prison go thru deprogramming. Even if they are in for life, the poison that they would spread inside the walls is counter productive to our national security. And if they are to be released someday, there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from continuing on their path of evil. It just doesn't make sense to lock them up without attempting to defang 'em.
Mohideen, if you pardon the expression, like you,
Allah knows jackshit.
"a man who will fight against inequality and for social justice..."
-- from the article on John Walker Lindh above
A spoiled well-off boy, beneficiary and victim of every conceivable indulgence displayed by his silly parents, he has found what the psychically marginal of his type -- for he is a type, just as his parents are types -- seek, and they shall find, in Islam -- a Total Regulation of Life, a Complete Explanation of the Universe. It is a ready-made Life in a Box, or in a Book, and for the lindhs of this world, just what the doctor --if the doctor is a psychiatrist -- ordered.
But along with the psychically marginal, there are also the economically (and often legally) marginal. Their desires are different. The phrases about "inequality" and "social justice" need to be held up. Islam is based on "inequality." It is the only belief-system in the world that recognizes, and legitimizes, for all time, slavery -- because slavery was good enough for Muhammad, uswa hasana al-insan al-kamil, the Perfect Man. The Arabs were the first and the last, and the most aggressive and cruel of slave traders in black Africa. The Arab enslavement of black Africans never ended; it continues today, most notably in the Sudan and Mauritania. Slavery was practiced in Saudi Arabia officially only in 1962, and only becuase of Western pressure, just as a century before, the African slave trade by the Arabs was severely curtailed only by the power of the British navy. Even today there are reports that indicate that slvery is still unofficially practiced in Saudi Arabia, behind those tall walls of the compounds of the rich who run and own everything in that country. For more on the enslavement of black Africans, see J. R. Willis, or Jan Hoogedorn's "The Hideous Trade" (about the seizure and castration of young blacks whose survival rate was 10%). Of course the Muslims also raided western Europe for slaves (Europeans built the palace of Moulay Hassan in Morocco -- see "White Gold" by Giles Milton, about Thomas Pellow) and eastern Europe, including the territories of the Slaves, for other slaves. Finally, women were seized from Georgia and Circassia to fill the harems (and harems were not limited, as some Westerners appear to think, to the Muslim rulers).
But even without the long and continuing history of slavery or near-slavery, the nonsense about "equality" and "social justice" can be shown for what it is by the examle of all with the wage-slaves who occasionally manage, in London or New York, to run away from their cruel Saudi or Kuwaiti masters, and then the tales of what they endured are fleetingly the subject of attention, and then the door into Arab Muslim reality is slammed shut by some well-paid lawyers and other fixers.
In the Gulf states, the treatment of Filipino workers (Pinoys) and especially nurses, of Indian and Pakistani and Sri Lankan and Thai workers, has been hair-raisingly horrible. Even the governments of the Asian countries whose nationals are treated with such cruelty, both as non-Muslims and as non-Arabs (for the Arabs are careful to make not one distinction, but several: 1) Muslim or non-Muslim 2) if Muslim, Arab or non-Arab 3) if Arab Muslim, what kind of Arab Muslim? These distinctions are made at every level, in every encounter, in every situation.
As for "social justice" in the sense of economic justice, one wonders what those who have swallowed this line actually know about the Muslim countries, where despots and a handful of the rich rule and simply steal the country's wealth. In Pakistan, a handful of zamindars and generals rule over a primitive and self-primitivizing population. In Iran, the main objection to the rule by mullahs is their vast corruption. In Kuwait, the U.A.E., and all the other statelets of the Gulf, while there is so much money coming in that everyone gets a cut, the ruling family - the Al-Sabah in Kuwait, the Al-Thani in Qatar, the Al-Maktoum in Dubai -- and of course, the fantastic thievery, the greatest theft in history, that by the Al-Saudi in the country they named after themselves, "Saudi" Arabia -- always helps itself to the largest share.
As for the related myth of Muslim lack of materialism, those who believe in that nonsense have apparently wandered into the wrong room in the Museum of Religions, and mistaken the exhibit on Buddhism for that on Islam. There is only one serious pastime in every rich Muslim country: shopping. And more shopping. Shopping in the gold souk. Shopping in the clothes stores. Shopping for electronic gewgaws. Shopping for the very latest in computer stuff. Going to Europe for more shopping: London, Paris, Rome. Via Condotti, rue du Faubourg St.-Honore, Fifth Avenue, Rodeo Drive. Shop, shop, shop.
Read any of the accounts by those who lived in Saudi or the Gulf statelets, for example "Money Rush" or the novel "Eight Months on Ghazzah Street" by Hilary Mantel. There you will see that the rich Arabs in their buying habits, men and women, resemble no Westerner so much as Paris Hilton. Whole countries full of hypocritical, meretricious, vicious, brutal, corrupt, Jihad-funding people -- and with the buying desires of Paris Hilton or Michael Jackson, or both of them combined.
So much for "equality." So much for "social justice" under Islam.
As for Lindh, worth only contempt, possibly from the sentimental contempt not unmixed with pity. Forget about Lindh. Whenever Lindh is mentioned, think at once, and mainly, of Mike Spann.
From the article: "We all know that everything in our lives is decreed by Allah. How can you have regrets when Allah has chosen your path."
So here is how it works, apparently. (Be prepared for a massive contradiction.) Suppose I'm a pious muslim and I think up a hideous plan to slaughter thousands of innocents in a really nasty way. Certainly, my plan must be the will of allah, who inspired my thoughts of dutiful jihad. Suppose my plan is completely successful, and thousands are killed and maimed. That, too, must be the will of allah, since he saw to it that I had the luck not only to pull off the attack , but also to escape so I can formulate more plans and attacks. Now, suppose my next attack fails, and I am captured. That is not the will of allah--this is unholy interference by the international Zionist conspiracy, led by the Great Satan.
Despite the massive contradiction at the end, there is one consistency. The pious muslim is not responsible for anything that happens as a result of his actions in the world or for any atrocity he perpetrates on non-muslims! How convenient not to have the burdens of conscience, empathy, responsibility, or guilt. No wonder islam appeals to prisoners.
We need to dissect some of these Islmic buzzwords:
"bridge-builder between faiths and communities"
Mospeak for lip-service that tells us all what a "noble and peaceful religion" Islam is. While in the backgroung plotting the subjugation of us all.
"fight against inequality and for social justice" - This applies only to Muslims; in a country like the USA, it is unjust for a non-Muslim to testify in a non-Islamic court against a Muslim. It is also unjust for a Muslim to be forced to live equally with infidels.
"message of racial harmony" - This is of course Mospeak for Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians submitting to dhimmitude without a fuss.
"He has even earned the respect of other prisoners who once condemned him as a "traitor", they said." - This is not Mospeak; it is probably just another lie.
Mohideen Ibramsha
Given the fraudulent documents which made up the primary argument in Holy Blood, Holy Grail - with some interesing history overshadowed as a result - I'd take any new revelations by the authors of that book with a grain of salt.
There's a thriving market for brand new antiquities and relics in that region. An army of very skilled forgers are working 24-7 like busy little worker bees to crank them out. Fake Jesus relics have been flying out furiously for decades.
I second Beagle. The energy and activity of forgers, not only in Israel, but throughout the Middle East, is astounding. Books could be written about the steady and impressively talented production of fakes from Pakistan (remember the fake mummy?) to Israel and beyond. And this particular fake has obvious Muslim fingerprints all over it. The original Sanhedrin did not conclude that Jesus was full of the spirit of God; they concluded that he was a blasphemer and deserved death. Until a heresiarch called Nestorius came up with the bright idea that the Spirit of God came down on Jesus as John baptized him, nobody had ever dreamed of seeing Jesus except in two ways: either as the founder of a despicable sect, "hated by the whole human race" (Tacitus) and inspired by Beelzebub (the Rabbis), or as God Incarnate. Muhammad, in his time, adopted the teachings of Nestorius, as he adopted several other Christian heresies from Pelagianism to Arianism. Subsequently, the Nestorians were treated favourably by many Caliphs and became the most prominent Christian church in the Muslim East - wonder why? Even in Spain, Muslim influence led to the rise of a kind of Nestorianism called Adoptionism. But before Nestorius, nobody had ever thought of seeing Jesus as a mere man who was, at some point in his life, possessed by God.
This fake is strictly for Muslims. No doubt Mohiddeen will take it as authentic, as with the rubbishy so-called Gospel of Barnabas, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and any amount of other fakes.
BEHOLD! The Messiah of Islam is born! Give me a break.
Hugh-
Loved the shopping bit. It is SO true. I think it was Naipaul in 'Among the Believers' who first called my attention to the Arab world's perception of computers, electronics, great cars, latest medicines etc. as NOT being the product of a free and vibrant civilization but as a kind of windfall 'fruit' to be gathered by the 'believers'.
Is Mrs. Arafart still seen shopping around Paris? God, I hate her.
Maybe Johnny will be appointed Mahdi...
The Jesus papers...St Clement made the remark that,'there were a multitude of gospels in our day'. What comes down to us is the famous four...and some people dispute those. The rest of the 'gospels' were not included in the Bible as it is. During the councils of Cornith and Nicea (early 300's) books, manuscrips and writings were brought to the council to be condensed into one book, The Bible. Many were recognised as frauds, forgeries, fakes or just plain off topic. Many were rejected because they were too long or too short.
On top of all that, book burnings went on for hundreds of years...that idea got started when the idiot Romans burned the library at Alexandria, Egypt. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of books and writings were burned. Donated, bought or captured, anything that was not in line with the Churches point of view was burned. But, some things did escape them...
When manuscripts of some kind of antiquity are found, they can require years of study to establish authenticity. The people who do this are so skilled that they can identify writing styles of ancient writers, as was done to establish the authenticity of a letter from Clement to Theodoras that was found in a Nestorian Monastary. That generated the book, 'The Secret Doctrine of Mark'.
The point being, that if the 'Jesus papers' really exist, they need to undergo extensive examination of authorship and credibility.
To accept them as valid without this, is a mistake...
Judging from the schismic behvior of Muslims worldwide, he'll meet the same fate as the original Malcolm X Shabazz once he is prominent enough to irritate some violent sect of this cult of death.
Inshallah.
i wonder if his bigger stronger muslim celmate makes him wear a burkha.
john
http://www.attackcartoons.com
American Taliban John Walker Lindh tells us not to worry about how others perceive Muslims, that we should just focus on living a good life according to the teachings of the Koran."
=================
Raping children, teens and women and killing infidels.
Hugh:
And for the matter of that, how about polygamy?
First, it institutionalizes a degraded status for women, who are therefore not enjoying equality. Secondly, people should "do the math": if some men have more than one wife, some must go without. And this is why I cannot understand some people on the Left pushing for polygamy to be recognized - when did the Left start giving up on equality? Apparently, the self-refuting ideology of "multiculturalism" takes precedence.
And what is to be done with the excess male population? Surely, the - deeply disturbing - answer to that one is that the deeper meaning of polygamy is slavery and war.
Just_Linda said
The article says
Knowing our political leadership and our media, and knowing the influence of Saudi money on both, I think I know which statement will win out. What did he get, 20 years? With good behavior, he'll be out in 7-8. I'll mark my calendar, so I know when to start watching for him on CNN/Fox/MSNBC as a "Middle East Expert". Mark my words, we will be fawning all over him; Spielberg is probably working on the movie script as we speak.
Unless "something" happens in those 7-8 years to finally and irrevocably change our society's view of Islam. Something big.
profitsbeard said
Good point. Maybe Moussaoui will be the one to get jealous of the attention Walker gets, or Jose Padilla. Someone will take him out, that's just what they do.
The Truth about John Walker Lindh
http://www.blackwaterusa.com/btw2006/articles/013006ryp.html
By Robert Young Pelton
John Walker Lindh aka John Walker aka Suleiman Ferris aka Abdul Hamid aka The American Taliban is a person that I will mostly likely to be associated for some time to come. I am sure on my obituary there will be a bombastic note that I was “the journalist who “discovered” Lindh after the battle at Qali Jangi” (the afghans have that dubious honor) Many have told me that Lindh’s story was a big deal back in the States. I will never know, I was in Afghanistan covering combat operations with in the ongoing war against the Taliban for CNN so I will never have the chance to the get the full impact of finding an American professing his love for the Taliban.
To me Lindh was just an unpleasant arrogant kid who preferred to stay with his murdering friends. He was in the fact, the second Irish-American Jihadi I have met and interviewed. The first one was a one-legged psychopath who had been trained in the same camps and had fought in Kashmir, Kosovo, Bosnia, Chechnya and Liberia gave me his opinion. When I called him to discuss Lindh’s hejira, Aqil Collins simply called Lindh “a pussy”. When I returned from Afghanistan I was quite aware of the outrage he had caused. I only did interviews in which I spoke positively about Lindh in a deliberate effort not to influence his pending case. Privately I warned his lawyers to keep me off the witness stand because I would send their little Johnny to prison. Wisely Lindh copped a plea and I was spared months of inconvenience. Some people wanted a trial to get to the bottom of Lindh’s nefarious activties, among them the grieving family of Mike Spann. Lindh’s plea bargain denied them and the country of that truth finding.
So it was left to me to set the record straight. My decades of travels with jihadis and terrorists, my time with both the Taliban leadership, the Northern Alliance aka the United Front, Dostum’s forces and and based on my time spent during and after talking to the players involved with Qali Jangi leads me to believe that I am uniquely qualified to pass judgment on Lindh and to accurately describe who he was and what he was doing there. Now that Lindh’s father has decided to wrongly blame me for his son’s misery and seek clemency under false pretences, I feel its time to reveal the truth.
Quite simply in my opinion, Lindh was a terrorist, a member of what we call al qaeda and a man who chose to stay with killers even though he was afforded numerous opportunities to separate himself from his murderous associates. Twenty years in jail may be a blessing compared to how many of his friends have been dealt with since.
Frank Lindh cannot be blamed for the emotions behind his need to reinvent history or doing what he can to get his son out of jail. But he is lying. His son did not “love America”, he fought for bin Laden against us, his son is not “honest”, he lied to his parents and others. His son is not a “decent” young man; he trained to be a murderer. His son went to kill strangers in a stranger land. A spiritual quest? What part of grenades and AK 47’s can be described as spiritual? What part of patriotism is eating bin Laden’s food, listening to Usama’s droning hate-filled speeches against America and sitting obediently within strangling distance of our greatest single enemy? To think that the American public is that stupid is an insult. John Walker Lindh was an Arab speaking member of bin Laden’s terror legions. He called it Al Ansar (the correct term) we call them al Qaeda. He was never a member of the Taliban. Why because Lindh only spoke Arabic and English he would have been useless in a combat situation among Pashto or Dari speaking troops. I have seen Taliban ID cards and spent time with bin Laden’s “055 Brigade, “al Ansar” members and al qaeda. Lindh was exactly the person we were trying to kill in Afghanistan and now around the world. An educated, idealistic young Muslim who chose murder of innocent people as his path in life. He is no different that Mohamed Atta, Zarqawi or thousands of other terrorists that come from nice middle class families.
The elder Lindh would have us believe that somehow America supported what Lindh Jr and bin laden did at one time. Pure invention. Osama bin Laden never received any US CIA funding, he channeled Saudi money into what was then called the Office of Services and then into his own ventures. Yes the Taliban were mujahids but their draconian regime and support of bin laden made them pariahs long before Lindh went there. Later in the post Soviet era of Afghanistan the CIA would pay Massoud money to try and kill Bin Laden. Lindh Jr went there to kill the members of Massouds’ fighters. When the war broke out there was no clearer distinction of “with us or against us” than the forces of bin laden and the Taliban against the combined Afghan forces we called “the Northern Alliance. Lindh was on Bin Laden's side against us. Period. End of conversation.
I agree with Lindh Sr that perhaps his son’s timing sucked. His son's need to run around Afghanistan looking to murder other Muslims would not have been that big a deal pre 9/11. Once he and his Arab jihadi friends heard on their BBC shortwave radio broadcasts that the US was coming…Well only the dumbest or the most resolutely criminal were going to stay for what was going to be a high tech, high ordnance ass whupping. Lindh chose to stay. He watched America’s B52 contrails in the sky, he felt the destruction American bombs dealt his friends and yet he stayed with his terrorist friends. When he fled to Kunduz he again chose to stay with his murdering friends and when a small group of foreign jihadis was chosen for a Hail Mary suicide mission to nearby Mazar i Sharif. Lindh was on board.
What you say? I thought poor Abul Hamid (Lindh Jr’s “jihad” name) was fleeing his evil master and seeking help. No. The group of around 460 jihadis that left Kunduz towards Mazar i Sharif were on their way to link up with Mullah Dadullah (now the leader of the Taliban military) in Balkh (just west of Mazar) and then attack the city while the US and Afghan forces were tied up in Kunduz monitoring the surrender. Yes, thousands of fighters did surrender peacefully but Lindh again chose to associate with a rag tag group of die-hards led by one of bin Laden’s lieutenants; Abdul Aziz, as well as the hardest core terrorists that comprised Saudi, Uzbek, Iraqi, Russian, Sudanese, Yemeni and Pakistani jihadis.
This group was stopped heading west early in the morning and had an armed standoff with afghan and US forces. (Yes Lindh’s group was fully armed during their purported “surrender” and they had no good reason to explain why they not going east towards Pakistan). The stand off was tense until bombers appeared overhead. Dostum drove by on his way to Kunduz and told them to be disarmed and taken to his garrison called Qali Jangi. Lindh during that entire time was within feet of western journalists and US forces and could have simply identified himself as an American. But he chose to stay in the company of killers. Lindh also knew that his cohorts were still secretly armed with pistols, rifles and even grenades tied by shoelaces and dangling around their groin area. A place where they knew Afghans dare not pat down.
The Uzbek terrorists among Lindh’s group were ecstatic. Qali Jangi was where they had trained under the Taliban and the storage rooms of garrison were literally overflowing with weapons confiscated and stored by the Taliban.
Upon arrival one of the Uzbeks immediately killed himself with a grenade while trying to murder what he thought was Dostum. It was Dostum's Intel officer (who survived) and a Hazara general was killed. This event was filmed and once again, despite the presence of western media and the casual atmosphere (prisoners were even being interviewed by CNN and others), Lindh refused to identify himself or ask for help.
Terrified and outnumbered by the false surrender the Afghan guards (there were only about 100 guards for the 460 prisoners) pushed the killers down into the basement of a fortified schoolhouse until they could be searched in the morning. That night in the cramped five-room basement there was an angry and desperate argument among the prisoners. The Saudis and Uzbeks planned an attack; they just needed a diversion to get to the weapons stored a few yards from the pink schoolhouse. The Pakistanis wanted to just surrender and go home. According to the survivors I interviewed, Lindh was an Arab speaking al qaeda member and had full knowledge of this discussion and he has yet to admit which path he was going to choose. Some insist that Lindh was among the main proponents of this violent action. I was not in that basement so I don’t know what happened. What I do know is that Lindh’s actions the next day would provide the damning answer.
The next morning two CIA officers went to Qali Jangi to interview the prisoners. Mike Spann and Dave Tyson arrived in separate vehicles. Tyson spoke a number of languages but Spann only spoke English. The prisoners were brought up one at a time. They were searched, bound with their turbans and then marched into lines inside the southern courtyard. Spann walked up and down the lines of prisoners. He asked an Iraqi mechanic who spoke English if there were any other prisoners who spoke English. The Iraqi pointed out the “Irishman”. Lindh had been told to say he was Irish in the camps to avoid problems. Spann had Lindh brought over away from the main group and put out a blanket for him. Spann and Tyson tried to talk to Lindh. Mike even calls him "Irish". Away from his peers Lindh just stares down. Mike pleads with Lindh to talk. Lindh remains hostile and silent.
Spann and Tyson play a clumsy game of “good cop, bad cop”. But one thing is clear; they offer Lindh a way out. Lindh is alone with two of his fellow countrymen with full knowledge of the violence that is about to happen. He says nothing. If there was ever one moment that will define one man and damn another this was it. Lindh is put back into the lineup and Mike Spann will die in the next few minutes as Uzbeks rush up from the basement, yelling Allahhuakbar detonate hidden grenades. The fighting begins. Lindh has once again has been given a clear choice between right and wrong and once again. He makes that clear choice again.
It is not know what Lindh and his fellow terrorists did for the next few days while fighting raged and Mike Spann’s still body lay there. Two Ak 47 bullet holes through his head. One straight down and one from left to right. When the afghan Commander Fakir used pleading, threats, then finally flame, explosions and flooding, to roust the killers, the first person that came up to negotiate on behalf of the jihadis was John Walker Lindh. The same murderous group that had shot and killed a clearly identified elderly Red Cross worker who went down to look for bodies a week earlier.
I had asked Dostum to bring me the prisoners. I wanted to interview and meet these men. At around midnight after Lindh and his 85 friends surrendered, two open trucks showed up filled with shivering, screaming jihadis. One truck load was unloaded in front of me. I photographed and talked to the men while a group of Special Forces soldiers watched from a distance, their guns at the ready. This was not the first false surrender they had suffered. One truck was full of moaning and crying men. Way in the back sat John Walker Lindh. He slowly hides from view in my series of photographs. Once he had a chance to identify himself and surrender but he chose to stay in the company of killers
A few minutes later Dostum’s cameraman runs into the living room and says there is an American. He shows me an image of Lindh repeating his name” John” on his Panasonic camera. My first impression is that whoever this American is, he needs help. Fast. I ask the Special Forces medic if he will bring his medical bag and come with me. We jump into a truck and I along with my cameraman and some SF team members go into the triage room. The doctor is whacking Lindh on the head trying to talk to him. I motion for the doctor to back off and ask if I can ask the questions. I clearly identify myself to Lindh as working for CNN. Lindh Sr forgets that all my initial questions are about his son’s health and if he wanted to contact his loved ones. Lindh Jr repeatedly states that he is not. I moved him to a private room so the medic can examine him properly. Downstairs the doctors hate these people. They have just murdered their compatriots in cold blood there will be no pity for the men left downstairs. They are all now dead or in Gitmo. Lindh will be the lucky one.
Upstairs Lindh and despite our attempts to improve his condition, he was yet again rude, arrogant and unhelpful. I still press him for someone to contact. He refuses. He is being given gentle medical care by a US medic who was busy killing his murderous friends a few days earlier. There is a myth that morphine somehow forces Lindh to talk. But his statements (some of them true and some of them false) begin well before and are consistent until I turn off my camera and tell him to sleep. I clearly identify to Lindh when he is given morphine (happy juice) and I ask no leading questions. My interest is simply understand who is he is and how he got there. In fact the reason Lindh talks to me is because he senses that I know about jihad, Muslims and his cause. He even asks me if I am a Muslim. I know jihadis and I know jihad. On tape I ask him if it is Ok for Muslims to kill other Muslims. He brushes me off saying the Koran deals with this. Finally I ask him what he thinks of his condition and decisions. He is unrepentant.
Despite his attitude and affections. I gave Lindh tea and cookies and once again ask him if he wants to contact his parents. He refuses. Finally I let him sleep and decide to take him home with me for his own safety. One of the special forces men, fresh from three weeks in combat, gave up his room so that Lindh could sleep in his bed.
The next morning he is taken to the Turkish School, rested, attended to and dressed in a clean pair of pajamas and out of my control. I know what happened to Lindh after that because I met some of the Marines that did it. He could have suffered much worse.
For an entire month I called Lindh’s parents and lawyers to provide the details of his capture and events surrounding the uprising. They refuse to call me back but his mother had time to chastise a gossip columnist for criticizing her relationship with her lawyer. During Lindh’s 15 minutes of fame, I respect my responsibility as a working journalist for CNN and do nothing that would influence his case. Despite my dark knowledge I tell his lawyers to keep me out of it. They play games and still I refuse. They smear me in pubic as an agent of the government and harass me in private. The waste $64,000 or CNN’s money and work the media to present me as a greedy story hungry freelance. I have made no additional money from Lindh’s story and never will. Now that Lindh’s father is now blaming me for his “exculpatory” interview and has restarted the negative spin. The gloves are off. The truth will prevail.
I don’t think about the evening of December 1 2001 that much. I continue to cover conflict and the actors within but on a recent motorcycle trip from the east coast to the west coast, I found myself passing through Victorville close to where "Johnny Taliban" is staying. The cold dirty wind and high mountain air reminded me of Afghanistan. I thought about Lindh, felt the air on my face and wondered how lucky Lindh is to be still alive. A privilege that Mike Spann, a real hero and American patriot will never have due to John Walker Lindh’s duplicity.
So for Mike’s sake, don't let John Lindh's PR and legal campaign change the fact that his son was the exactly the kind of person that fly aircraft into buildings, blow up American troops in Iraq and kill innocent Muslims on their "spiritual journey" to paradise. He was and is a terrorist.
To hell with John Walker Lindh and his murderous ilk. They have done nothing to advance the cause of Muslims and they have caused a world of heartbreak in their arrogant pursuit of senseless death. To support Lindh Sr’s naïve view of his son and his actions furthers that dark vision.
Reading Pelton's account (and also from what I have read elsewhere), I am flabbergasted that the U.S. government did not see fit to put Lindh up against a wall and have a firing squad summarily and ceremoniously dispose of him. In prison, and after his release, it is evident that he will do further dangerous, traitorous damage through (at the very least) inspiration and persuasion of others, if not outright terrorist planning or supervision.
When will the West's testicles descend again?
I would safely predict that right now Hamzah is reading the Koran...
The two are perfect together. A piece of human scum reading from a murder manual. I can respect that.
We all know that everything in our lives is decreed by Allah ~ from the article
Allah knows best. Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha. or does He?
Infidel Question #100 : Are unbelievers persecuted or forgiven?
Allah's Answer : Sura 23:117, 9:29 says persecuted while Sura 45:14 says forgiven.
Infidel Question #101 : Who do we blame for wrongdoings?
Allah's Answer : Sura 35:8 says Allah leads those astray he wishes, while Sura 30:9 denies that Allah leads anyone astray.
Infidel Question # 102 : Who is to be blamed for belief or unbelief?
Allah's Answer : Sura 6:12 claims it our own fault, while Sura 10:100 claims it is Allah's fault.
Infidel Question #103 : Who misleads people, Allah or Satan?
Allah's Answer : Sura 4:119-120 claims it is Satan who leads people astray, while Sura 14:4, 16:93 claims Allah is the one who misleads.
Infidel Question #104 : Is Jesus in heaven or hell?
Allah's Answer : Sura 3:45, 4:158 claims Jesus was raised up to Allah, while Sura 21:98, claims that Jesus and his followers are the firewood of hell.
Infidel Question #105 : How long is a day to Allah?
Allah's Answer : Sura 32:5 claims 1000 years, yet Sura 70:4 claims it is 50,000 years.
Round square Allah certainly knows best.
"John Walker Lindh was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison Friday after tearfully telling a courtroom that he made a mistake in joining the Taliban. ..."
Obviously, he was a traitor to his country and his teary act in the courtroom was an act of deception. It is deplorable that judge & jury didn't have the resolve to have him executed for treason. He should have been executed right there on the battlefield in Afghanistan. Full stop.
Chuck sez:
'It will be a long time before before he fights for social justice and if and when he gets out of prison I doubt he will go around spouting much of anything as he will be a marked man.'
I don't think so: First, Lindh is a homosexual who is 'well respected' in prison, while making da'a- wah and 'studying' the murder manual. Lindh is having a good time! He will be received as a celebrity in the ummah, the 'nation of believers', when he comes out.
No, lenience with these people is a big mistake. Our pussyfooting around just encourages them in their belief that we are weak, foolish and naive.
Mohideen Ibramsha,
"One of the authors who last week failed to win a plagiarism case against Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code has written a new book just in time for Easter to question the very tenets of the Christian faith.
…The Jesus papers in the book’s title are two scrolls supposedly written in Aramaic and found under a house in the old city of Jerusalem in the 1960s. It is claimed they are letters written to the Jewish court, the Sanhedrin, by Jesus, saying he is not the son of God but is filled with the spirit of God. "
Mohideen, I am not suprised that you would believe this stuff. There was a reason why only four gospels got in while others got rejected. It is because not only because they had to be faithful to the Hebrew scripture prophecies, but also faith to the life and teachings of Jesus. Also These other gospels are just simply questionable at best; heretic at worse. Please do not put blind trust into them. The Jesus of the Christian scriptures is the REAL DEAL.
Mohideen Ibramsha,
If the Christian scriptures are questionable, they why is it that people still become Christian? Could it be that the New Testement be words of truth.
For more on the enslavement of black Africans, see J. R. Willis, or Jan Hoogedorn's "The Hideous Trade" (about the seizure and castration of young blacks whose survival rate was 10%).
Posted by: Hugh at April 9, 2006 09:06 AM
Islam mandates certain behavior on the females. From http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2&mac= we find:
===
24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
===
The Holy Quran has permitted the Muslim women to relax their dress code in the presence of male servants free of physical needs. Normally this is understood to mean men so old and infirm that they have no physical needs. This requirement seems to have been twisted and by castration the cruel exploiters of Islam had created slaves. This is assuming that the novels really depict the truth. Such exploiters hopefully would be severely punished by Allah. Such beasts that have castrated young boys to make them servants for their females are enemies of Islam, and their behavior cannot be used as measure of Islam.
Should we measure the US Constitution by the behavior of those syndicates that organize prostitution? No. Likewise, Islam should be judged on the contents of the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions and not on the basis of the exploiters of Islam.
"Islam should be judged on the contents of the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions"
We've been doing that for months, years. And you haven't responded to our judgements.
Islam should be judged on the contents of the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions. Posted by Mohideen.
Ok, fair enough.
Sura 4:82 claims the Qur'an has no discrepancies. But is it true?
Infidel Question : What was man created from?
Allah's Answer : Sura 96:1-2 claims a blood clot, Sura 24:45, 25:54 claims water, Sura 15:26, claims clay, Sura 30:20 claims dust while Sura 3:47 claims out of nothing.
Infidel Question : Is wine good or bad?
Allah’s answer : Sura 5:90 refers to wine as Satan’s handiwork, yet Sura 47:15 claims that rivers of wine flow in paradise, Satan’s handiwork in paradise, how did it get there?
Infidel Question : Are angels our protectors?
Allah's Answer : Sura 2:107, 29:22, claims we have no protector besides Allah, while in Sura 41:31, the angels themselves claim "we are your protectors in this life and the hereafter"
Infidel Question : How many intestines do infidels have?
Mohammad's Answer : Seven!
Sahih Muslim
Book 023, Number 5113:
Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying that a non-Muslim eats in seven intestines whereas a Muslim eats in one intestine.
Infidel Question : Are flies considered unclean by Moslems?
Mohammad’s Answer :
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
There, now are these based on the Qur’an and Hadith or am I just another exploiter of Islam? I am sure Mohideen will say, “don’t believe your lying eyes”.
Hugh,
Superb post (as usual).
>For more on the enslavement of black Africans, see
>J. R. Willis, or Jan Hoogedorn's "The Hideous >Trade"
I would like to read this Jan Hoogedorn's "The Hideous Trade."
Where can it be found? Nothing in google, amazon.com, etc. Is it out of print and rare? Any guidance is appreciated, if you have any information.
Thanks.
if Johnny taliban would of been caught during WW2, he would of been shot for being a deserter terrorist! no courts, no nothing but a quick firing squard! he is worse than a muslim, as he turned on his own countrymen!
Mohideen, admit it:
You have been sipping that camel-juice again? Or was it that black cumin seed stuff up your nose?
"...Should we measure the US Constitution by the behavior of those syndicates that organize prostitution? No. Likewise, Islam should be judged on the contents of the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions and not on the basis of the exploiters of Islam..."
For heavens sake, man: Are you completely off the rails?
What has the US constitution got to do with syndicates who organize prostitution?
Islam is what Islam does. It is a 7th century cesspool of superstition and lies and you know it! Now go and wash the devil out of your nose, make sure you find uneven numbers of pebbles (not bones for they are the food of the jinn...) for you know what, and find out in which wing of your fly you find the antidote to the poison which is affecting you...
Until then, worry about 'turkey-shoot by Yakuza' and 9/11 conspiration-theories...
or just get a life...
Westward Ho,
Apparently, Hugh's citation contained a typo; I think the name of the author of that "The Hideous Trade" is Jan Hogendorn.
The following article looks like a good one about the subject of Islamic slavery, and it cites Hogendorn:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4407&search=Bostom
Thank you, Television.
Googling the citation, I now see that this isn't a book, as I thought, but an article in an academic journal Paideuma, 1999, Vol. 45.
Guess I have to locate that volume of Paideuma at a university library if I want to read it.
Jan Hogendorn. “The Hideous Trade. Economic Aspects of the ‘Manufacture’ and Sale of Eunuchs”, Paideuma, 1999, Vol. 45
Sounds like a particularly compelling piece of anti-jihad exposure. But then again, there's so much of that anyway, due to the predictable behavior of the jihad-inclined.
No wonder islam appeals to prisoners.
Posted by: Stendec at April 9, 2006 09:28 AM
Islam appeals to everyone including prisoners.
if some men have more than one wife, some must go without.
Posted by: Yojimbo at April 9, 2006 01:24 PM
Polygamy was permitted after the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslim men lost their lives leaving a number of women without any guardian. Polygamy is to provide security to the women without any guardian so that their weakness is not exploited leading to prostitution.
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2&mac= has:
===
24:32 Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
===
The above Verse was revealed on the occasion of the slander against mother Aisha, Allah be pleased with her. This Verse is a command to the community that the single should be married to the single. In normal times, Islam commands the community to maintain one wife for one man.
Polygamy is permitted when the women are in excess; monogamy in normal times. It is our understanding that from the time of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, until the Day of Judgment, the male would be less in number than the female.
Allah knows best.
Infidel Question #104 : Is Jesus in heaven or hell?
Allah's Answer : Sura 3:45, 4:158 claims Jesus was raised up to Allah, while Sura 21:98, claims that Jesus and his followers are the firewood of hell.
Posted by: Bar at April 9, 2006 03:25 PM
From http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=21&translator=2&mac= we have:
===
21:98 Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!
===
The Holy Quran does not address Christians alone in Verse 98 of Chapter 21. It addresses all unbelievers and the false gods worshipped by them. It is the mistake of the infidel to attribute it to the Jesus, son of God. Jesus, son of God, is a false deity; Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, is a Prophet and not a deity at all.
Those who worship Jesus, son of God, resolutely deny that someone else was crucified. When it is explained to them that it was disciple Judas who was crucified and not Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, the Christians refute these statements. Thus, there are clearly two identities in existence now.
1. The Muslim belief that Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, who was lifted to Heaven, who is living there now, and who would descend to fully establish Islam just before the Day of Judgment.
2. The non-Muslim belief that Jesus, the son of God, who died in the cross, who is dead now, would get a new life and come down.
These two identities would receive two different treatments. The true Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, who is living currently in Heaven, after his death in future, would of course be admitted to Paradise. The second identity, the false identity created by the victorious Romans, that identity would surely be punished in Hell fire.
Do not mix up the identities and then claim that Islam has contradiction.
First, Lindh is a homosexual
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 9, 2006 03:48 PM
How do you know?
If the Christian scriptures are questionable, they why is it that people still become Christian?
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 9, 2006 05:09 PM
It is a demonstration of the freedom-of-faith guaranteed by God Almighty as per Verse 256 of Chapter 2 of the Holy Quran.
There, now are these based on the Qur’an and Hadith or am I just another exploiter of Islam?
Posted by: Bar at April 9, 2006 06:30 PM
Thanks for the questions. In due course of time, God Almighty willing, these would be answered, not necessarily in this blog.
Islam is what Islam does.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 9, 2006 10:12 PM
Wrong. Islam is not what Muslims do in the name of Islam. Islam is what is said by the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions.
Mohideen,
Would you be willing to have a dialogue with myself and at least one other jihadwatch person, at another website where we will not get in the way of other posters, and where our posts do not get buried by new posts (as they do here at jihad watch)?
The other website is a sleepy little philosophy forum where few people go, and it has a nice format for posting. Check it out:
http://www.humancafe.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html
If you will agree to have a dialogue, I suggest we first have a discussion about ground rules before any dialogue begins. We can have that discussion at the website I linked above. For your convenience, I will start a thread called "Dialogue with a Muslim", which will be contained inside the folder called "NEW -- Forums active -- 2006 -- continued".
Mohideen,
The full answer why people become Christians is two-fold : First because of the good news of the Gospel of Jesus, and second, because because of the truth of the Christian scriptures.
Mohideen:
Jesus, when answering a question as to how to recognize false prophets, simply and directly said "By their fruits shall you know them." Mohammed and his followers, such as John Walker Lindh, have borne the fruit of death, duplicity, theft and rape. You say somewhere above that Islam is what the Qur'an and Traditions say it is. Well then, I rest my case. How well we know the story of Mohammed's "marriage" to the child Aisha, his ordered assassinations of those who dared laugh at him, his approval of slaughter, the special treatment accorded to him conveniently by his revelations. A liar through and through who attracts liars and those hungry for power.
The Qur'an and the Traditions are very different from the Gospel. This possibly a result of Mohammed's being exposed to gnostic teachings, radically different from the New Testament writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The gnostic teachings would have then found their way into Mohammed's new religion, as he was developing a religion that would support his political aspirations.
The gnostic teachings were refuted long ago, yet they crop up from time to time, trying to "expose" or embarass the Church. It is interesting how the latest attempts occur just in time for Easter. Should Christians riot at this blasphemy? Of course not. Don't be silly. As crazy as it must sound to you, the Almighty neither requires nor desires military action on His behalf.
Are you beginning to see some of the differences, Mohideen?
Touche' Chatillion;
You saved me from having to comment. Nothing more needed to be added unless Mohideen wants to further embarass himself defending Islam.
Mohammed and his followers, such as John Walker Lindh, have borne the fruit of death,
Posted by: Chatillon at April 10, 2006 03:32 PM
Muslims believe that the time and place of death are recorded at the 120th day of conception before the soul is breathed-in. As such all that we could aspire to is the kind of death: we like to die in courage, serving God Almighty.
It is our understanding that the victorious Romans got the Christian scripture rewritten to ensure that the ruled population would meekly submit to the rulers. So, judging us by the standards of a book which we consider corrupted would in no way change our attitude to life and death.
We believe this life is simply a test for our placement in Heaven or Hell in the next life, and thus we follow – at least try to follow – the tenets of our religion.
As I had stated earlier, who is the true follower of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, would be known on the descent of Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him. Those who could approach him are the true believers. The non-believers would fall dead as they try to approach him. This is prophesying by Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. We simply have to wait. Until the result is declared in future, accusations from either side do not help.
The non-Muslim belief that Jesus, the son of God, who died in the cross, who is dead now, would get a new life and come down.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at April 10, 2006 12:13 PM
Well non-Moslems (Christians) believe that Jesus died, but was raised from the dead after three days, which makes Him alive, so your second group in reality does not exist, which makes your argument baseless.
Mohideen, you don’t have any facts besides Mohammad’s book of contradictions to support your lurid fantasies, do you? Now I would suggest that you start by finding the grave of Jesus and if it is occupied, then maybe we can talk. I know where Mohammad’s grave is, and it is occupied.
Now I realize you give more credence to the Qur’an which was written by one man over one life time and not until a few hundred years after his demise. The Bible on the other hand is a collection of 66 different books written by 40 different authors over a period of four thousand years, now that is a damn long time to carry on with what you consider to be a conspiracy against Islam.
Here is an example of a Prophet who really prophesied. Unlike the “prophet” of Islam.
The book of Isaiah chapter 9
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The book of Isaiah chapter 53
(3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
(4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
(5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
(6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
(8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
(9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
(10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
(12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Written thousands of years before Christ was born, and Isaiah clearly states His deity in verse six and seven of chapter 9, verses three and on of chapter 53 make the Qur’an nothing more then a collection of cockamamy contradictions.
Well non-Moslems (Christians) believe that Jesus died, but was raised from the dead after three days, which makes Him alive
Posted by: Bar at April 10, 2006 05:08 PM
Oops! My apologies. Yes I forgot that the Christians believe that Jesus Christ was indeed resurrected on the third day. Any information about how long the resurrected Jesus lived before his being taken up to Heaven?
First, Lindh is a homosexual...
Indeed. He is!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 9, 2006 03:48 PM
How do you know? Ask's Mohideen.
I happen to know, Mohideen.
His father is also a homosexual who left "Hamza's" mother for this reason. Why do I know? Because I do my own research, Mohideen. Unlike you, who dreams up conspiracy crap.
Islam is what Islam does.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 9, 2006 10:12 PM
Mohideen sez: Wrong. Islam is not what Muslims do in the name of Islam. Islam is what is said by the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions.
Wrong? No: What's written in your dirty book and in the hadith is just as vile and evil as the actions of your cult. Lunatic mobs of brainwashed Mohammedans go on bloody rampages all over the world and prove it every day of the week.
No sane person converts to such a cult, only crims, perverts and prison inmates. If I were you I wouldn't concern myself with other peoples religions Mohideen. I would seek counseling on how to leave Islam behind. Joining humanity is a rewarding experience, Mohideen. But don't take my word for it: Go for it!
"Any information about how long the resurrected Jesus lived before his being taken up to Heaven?"
Mohideen:
Your question may or may not be sincere, but I'll try to provide you with an answer.
A Christian believes that Jesus is alive, right now and always. This is confirmed by and celebrated in the Resurrection. Jesus remained on earth 40 days following the Resurrection, then ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father. Read Mark 16:19, and Luke 24:51 for yourself. Don't worry if you don't speak Hebrew, Greek or Latin. The Bible seems to have been accurately rendered into English. I am given to understand that the Qur'an cannot be accurately rendered into English. Pity.
There it is. You're under no obligation to believe any of it. Your loss. But don't make hash out of it, as Moslems always have and apparently always will. It seems that you earlier boasted: "We like to die in courage, serving God Almighty." Well how about living in courage? Is it so terrible to listen and learn from people instead of teaching half-truths, full lies and fantasies?
Mohideen,
Would it suprise you that the gospels that Mohammed used as part of Islam's position on the Christian faith have been based on gnostic teachings, which are based on secret knowledge. The true Christian Gospels are not based on secret teachings, but teachings that are well known about Jesus. Also the real Christian scriptures are faithful to the prophecies of the Jewish scriptures in respect to birth, life, teachings, sufferings, death, and resurection. Also the real Christian scriptures have been accepted since the early days of the Christian Church, way before Constitine. The New Testement came together as we know it around the fourth century. The gnostic gospels were rejected simply because they contain teachings that were questionable at best, heretical at worse.
This URL backs up the position that about the full condemming of these gnostic gospels.
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-sects-basilides.htm
When there are posters that state the facts of the Christian faith, it is based on the full facts on the ground. Also for those who are Christian, it is defense of the faith. There was never a rewrite; the four Gospels are faithful not only to the prophecies of Jesus, but also based on eye-witness accounts. So kindly please not depend on what Dan Brown says because what he writes is simply not true.
As Christians get ready to remember the most important events in the life of Christ and of the Christian faith during Holy Week and Easter, and would be wise to study the history of the real four Gospels.
His father is also a homosexual who left "Hamza's" mother for this reason. Why do I know? Because I do my own research
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 10, 2006 07:10 PM
Could you provide the evidence that you collected by your research?
I would seek counseling on how to leave Islam behind. Joining humanity is a rewarding experience, Mohideen.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 10, 2006 07:10 PM
There is life on earth; there is life in the Hereafter. The only group that has any chance of success in both this earthly life and the Hereafter is the group of Muslim believers. We are the successful part of humanity. We do invite the rest of the Humanity to study the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions and if the one who undertakes such a study is lucky that person would be rewarded with Islam. May I invite you to Islam?
Jesus remained on earth 40 days following the Resurrection, then ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father.
Posted by: Chatillon at April 10, 2006 07:59 PM
I read Chapter 16 at http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvmar16.htm and Chapter 24 at http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvluk24.htm
Mark 16:14 talks of Jesus meeting the eleven disciples; so does Luke 24:36. I could not infer the period of 40 days from either Chapter. Could you please clarify about the 40 days and what he did in those days?
From the above posting,
"Any information about how long the resurrected Jesus lived before His being taken up to heaven?"
Mohideen;
If you are serious as Chatilion asked you before, the answers that you seek can be found in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles in the first chapter. Jesus taught His followers for forty days before asending upward. Theologians say that Jesus was seen by at least 500 people. So if you are serious, you can add this on to the books and scriptures that Chatilion gave you.
"We like to die in courage, serving God Almighty." Well how about living in courage?
Posted by: Chatillon at April 10, 2006 07:59 PM
Living in courage – that is living as a Muslim – is a prerequisite to dying in courage. See http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=cubit+fire&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all where the first Tradition is:
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Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." (Book #54, Hadith #430) (Sahih Bukhari)
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"Living in courage – that is living as a Muslim – is a prerequisite to dying in courage"
It is easy to live in courage when your neighbors do not force their beliefs upon you and do not raise their hands against you.
John Walker Lindh has all of the virtue of the unchallenged. Pampered, coddled, growing up opinionated and lacking practice of the Golden Rule. Do you hold him up as an example of a good Moslem? He appears to many non-Moslems as a sorry excuse for a human being. Compare to Abdul Rahman, the Afghani convert to Christianity, a man who had none of the opportunities afforded to Lindh, living in an environment in which there is no freedom to worship God according to conscience. Yet Rahman lives in courage, turning towards his God as his heart dictates without malice towards his neighbors. I'd trade one Rahman for twenty Lindhs any day.
Islam, my friend, is a religion for bullies and slaves. So it is written, in the Qur'an and Hadith. So it is done, by the Lindhs and bin Ladens.
Mohideen:
Sorry about the reference to the Resurrection without reference to the forty day period before the Ascension.
Ironman Hondo:
Many thanks for following up on my oversight.
The only group that has any chance of success in both this earthly life and the Hereafter is the group of Muslim believers. We are the successful part of humanity. May I invite you to Islam?
Thanks Mohideen, I really needed a good laugh!
I noticed how you completely ignored my quotes from the Old Testament book of Isaiah, why? Do you not like real prophets?
Perhaps, Mohideen can explain to us infidels why Bukhari never considered the Bible to be corrupt? And why this Moslem lie about the corrupt Bible does not appear until a few hundred years after Bukhari, did it really take you Moslems that long to figure out what the bible contains?
Now how is that considered “successful”, Maybe it is in Arabic?
Just humbled to be counted and to be able to assist another Believer in the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus.
Infidel Question : When and if Moslems doubt what Mohammad revealed, who or what becomes the ultimate authority to decide these matters?
Mohammad’s Answer : The “corrupt” Bible of the Christians and Jews that came before the Qur’an.
010.094
And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
Would it suprise you that the gospels that Mohammed used as part of Islam's position on the Christian faith have been based on gnostic teachings, which are based on secret knowledge. The true Christian Gospels are not based on secret teachings, but teachings that are well known about Jesus. Also the real Christian scriptures are faithful to the prophecies of the Jewish scriptures in respect to birth, life, teachings, sufferings, death, and resurection.
…
This URL backs up the position that about the full condemming of these gnostic gospels.
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-sects-basilides.htm
When there are posters that state the facts of the Christian faith, it is based on the full facts on the ground.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 10, 2006 09:14 PM
I visited the URL. It has:
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It was not, however, Christ who suffered, but rather Simon of Cyrene, who was constrained to carry the cross for him, and mistakenly crucified in Christ's stead. Simon having received Jesus' form, Jesus assumed Simon's and thus stood by and laughed at them. Simon was crucified and Jesus returned to His Father.
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I have not read the above statement so far. I have argued that it was Judas who sacrificed himself in place of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon him. Earlier in these pages, I had explained the statements made by the person who died on the cross to show that it was not Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. My analysis hinges on the crucial question regarding the need for the coins and the need for the embrace. If all that Judas wanted was to point out Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, he need not go so close to embrace Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them; he could have simply pointed him out from a distance. Since the coins could be used as alibi, I argue that it was Judas who sacrificed himself in lieu of his master. All I say is that the sacrifice of Judas is a possibility. Well, one could also say that it is possible that Simon of Cyrene was crucified. I do not say that. This is because transforming the figures of Simon of Cyrene and that of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, requires a miracle. Whereas switching between two mutually agreed persons does not call for a miracle. Further remember that Judas returned the coins signifying the fact that the coins were of no use to him.
To repeat, I conjecture that Judas was crucified; resurrected by Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them on the third day; was subsequently hung by the clergy. All that I have done is to show that the person crucified need not be Jesus, son of Mary, peace be up on them.
Would it suprise you that the gospels that Mohammed used as part of Islam's position on the Christian faith have been based on gnostic teachings, which are based on secret knowledge.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 10, 2006 09:14 PM
It is natural that any group that suffers persecution hides its most important books such that when the hidden knowledge resurfaces it is secretive.
The MSM carry out this strategy very well today. Any news that could embarrass the really powerful is simply ignored so that that true but uncomfortable news is reported by a few papers only. Then, the perception molders site the fact that the news was carried by an obscure periodical and thus it must be false.
the answers that you seek can be found in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles in the first chapter
Posted by: Ironman Hondo at April 11, 2006 09:38 AM
Thanks. From http://www.blueletterbible.org/Act/Act001.html we have:
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Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
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Thanks again.
Mohideen:
Your postings have been, for me, very instructive.
You have busied yourself proposing one scenario after another, each more determined than the next to impose a point of view without any apparent effort to understand what it is you seek to "improve." You allude to a conspiracy to alter or rewrite the Gospel, which is just plain silly, without any apparent recognition of the message that the Gospel contains, which is simply bewildering. It's as if you read the Gospel, extract the pearl, throw the pearl away and keep the shell, then "expose" to the world that the shell has no pearl. Is this wise?
You state "It is natural that any group that suffers persecution hides its most important books such that when the hidden knowledge resurfaces it is secretive." Ah yes! This must be why the Bible is hidden in Saudi Arabia. Offhand, it seems as though Moslems are very afraid of the Bible, afraid to read it as it is for what it says.
Mohideen,
Here is a URL which will clearly expland why the gnostic gospels where not accepted by the early Church and why the present four Gospels were. This should better explain what was done to determine what is true Christian scripture.
http://www.jesusdecoded.com/catholicchurch5.php
Also the true Christian scriptures do produced knowledge that is secret, it is open for those who sincerly seek it.
Chatillon,
You are spot on in your comments. The truth is that the gnostic gospels are at best questionable, at worse herectic. Also I am not suprised that Muslims when told the truth about the Christian scriptures hold on to thin straws by refering to the gnostic gospels. The Christian New Testement ( the real deal ) is available for all to read. No secret knowledge there.
Back to John Boy, they should let him go! LET HIM GO IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD!! PLEASE!!
As far as this John Boy is concerned, this Philip Sherwell has to be kidding, John Boy a leader?
Mohideen wrote:
"All that I have done is to show that the person crucified need not be Jesus, son of Mary, peace be up on them."
This is the utmost heresy. I Corinthians 15 states the truth of Christ's death and resurrection:
12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15: Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16: For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19: If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20: But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Islam's teaching pertaining to Christ Jesus is a diabolical lie. It is an abomination to the nth degree.
Mohideen, I have a lot more than that!
But just for starters:
In 1991, the Lindh Family moved to the trendy San Francisco suburb, sent up in the 1980 movie “Serial.” Lindh’s mother, raised a Catholic, converted to Buddhism. Papa Lindh would later move in with his gay lover. Little Johnny was enrolled in alternative schools.
Does that burst your bubble?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15348
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9htfSRcNDxEAKoATCNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2OXM0bmMwBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMTAEc2VjA3NyBHZ0aWQDREZYMF8z/SIG=12sduoqrf/EXP=1144882652/**http%3a//archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/09/30/walker.lindh.time
Mohideen wrote:
"Could you please clarify about the 40 days and what he did in those days?"
Again, I Corinthians 15 answers this:
3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7: After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
The purpose of Christ's time after his resurrection is obvious. He gave his disciples insturctions and encouragement for their mission to increase His church, which by the way, was the exact opposite to the ways and means of Mohammad's followers.
If Christ did not die, and did not raise from the dead, then our faith is in vain. Everything eternal a Christian believes in depends upon Christ's death and resurrection from the dead.
Mohideen sez:
"...The only group that has any chance of success in both this earthly life and the Hereafter is the group of Muslim believers. We are the successful part of humanity. We do invite the rest of the Humanity to study the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions and if the one who undertakes such a study is lucky that person would be rewarded with Islam. May I invite you to Islam...?"
You may not. Thanks, but NO thanks!
Breeding like rats does not make Mohammedans "a successful part of humanity..."
You see, those of us who have taken time out and great pains to learn about the 'RoP', (which is in fact an ideology of conquest and booty, rape & murder, a blood-cult no less,) are able to defend against and warn unsuspecting infidels about the dangers of not actively fighting Islam.
As you know, 70% of muslims are illiterate, stupid and poor. (In that order.)
Infidels may be lazy and ignorant and asleep at the wheel, but it is just a matter of time before they realize what's in store for them should Mo's madness ever take hold in, and of our lands.
The Koran, the sira & the hadith are just a mouse-click away, we are literate, we can inform ourselves, and we can defend against this cult.
All we need is the necessary resolve.
Allah won't help you once that happens Mohideen, better find another 'religion' or take cover!
yohannbiimu,
God Bless you and thank you for your posting of passages from the Holy Bible on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Those passages are a true blessing for all who read and believe including me.
Also it is because of the good news of the Christian Gospel that people still come into faith in Christ, even to this very day. Saturday night around the world, many people will be, for my church, coming in as new members via either baptism or by being recieved into if they have been baptised already. Outside of the resurrection of Jesus from the tomb, it being the greatest miracle, that the Holy Spirit inspires people to come to faith in Christ is also one of the great miracles of Christ. Even the witness in life and of death of Christian believers have cause folks to become Christians and become, as proof, members of my church.
Here is an URL :
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=87498
Pray for the non-Christians to come to faith in Christ.
If Christ did not die, and did not raise from the dead, then our faith is in vain. Everything eternal a Christian believes in depends upon Christ's death and resurrection from the dead.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 11, 2006 10:17 PM
God Almighty willing, I plan to post an analysis on the above confusion regarding the identity of the crucified individual in my blog http://spaces.msn.com/deentech/ Please check there.