Utah jihad?

Suprising, to even see a jihadi in the land of the Mormons. Amazing.

Another notch in the belt of stopping Muslim immigration to the West.

thethinker-

Your ignorance is showing.
I think that the Mormons would probably deal with the muslim threat better then most.
They are committed to their religion and way of life, and would not be easy prey to muslim apologists. BTW, Utah is a great state.

From the article: "The four indictments allege that the Omar family members, aided by three other Utahns, defrauded banks of hundreds of thousands of dollars with bad mortgage and car loans from 2000 to 2004. . .
In December, a federal jury acquitted University of South Florida doctoral student Sameeh Hammoudeh of charges that he helped fund and supported a Palestinian terrorist group.
But Hammoudeh remains in custody and he has been ordered to be deported from the United States because officials were able to obtain a conviction on other charges - including mortgage fraud."

Mortgage fraud! Whatever it takes, people, whatever it takes to get these jihadis deported. Even Al Capone 'no tax return'-like convictions.

The Omar family has worked tirelessly to ensure that Shawqi Omar, currently being held at a U.S. prison facility in Iraq known as Camp Bucca, will be provided legal council and not be turned over to the Iraqi court system.
According to documents filed Friday in a Washington, D.C., federal court, Omar's attorney Susan Burke claims he is being tortured. She said she received an unexpected phone call from Omar on April 13, in which her client told her that "Americans, claiming to be Federal Bureau of Investigation agents, beat him severely and applied electric shocks to his body."

Right out of the al qaeda manual- claim torture.

I missed the post about the LDS Church, but we shouldn't have a circular shootout. We are all needed in this fight.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall hang separately."-Benjamin Franklin

aint got nothin bad to say about Mormons,but i dont see anything proud about a strong showing for goergie in Utah.Besides he is not really fighting the jihadist,they (suadia arabia)are the biggest threat,their his,and his family's best buds.He is making way to much money from them,they breed the worst form of islam.He has done nothing about them spreading this in the world,or the U.S.A

"Oh ya, George Bush, the very man that Robert will testify is a Dhimmi. You haven't been around this site too long."

Actually I have read this site for quite a while. My point was that Bush was a better alternative then Komrad Kerry.

"Sorry, but I don't consider mormons to be very capable of fighting the jihad."

And what reason would that be?

In fact, don't they like to have multiple wives, too. They might find something in common. LOL

As a matter of fact no we do not.

You are showing who you really are, a bully. I have read all of Mr. Spencer's books and I happen to agree totally with him on the matter of Islam and the jihadists. And guess what I am a Mormon, so how is it that I am not capable of fighting jihad?

I hope that I am never on a battlefield with you, because it seems you would shoot me in the back for being a Mormon.

As far as I am concerned this discussion is over. You have shown your true colors I do not consider you a fighter against jihad, but a bigotted bully who likes to pick on those he does not agree with...

"The Utah arrest came as a shock to neighbors in the upscale gated subdivision where Sharif Omar has lived with his wife and three children for more than a year.
"Of anybody here, he's the last guy I would have expected to get arrested," said neighbor Bob Skanchy.
Friends said that Sharif Omar's family seemed to have rapidly climbed the economic ladder over the past few years, though state records indicate most of the dozens of businesses he and his relatives have owned along the Wasatch Front have closed.
Skanchy said homes in the community can cost upwards of $500,000. Two luxury sport utility vehicles were parked in front of the Omar home Wednesday afternoon."
-- from the full article

"Of anybody here, he's the last guy I would have expected to get arrested," said neighbor Bob Skanchy.

Does anyone have a list of, say, two dozen other examples taken from those arrested in the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, and so on? With the obvious remarks by "shocked" family members and "stunned" co-workers and "amazed" friends and "disbelieving" acquaintances? The ones who routinely utter such phrases as "he was the last one you'd expect" or "he was a quiet, shy, boy, he wouldn't hurt a fly" or "he loved his students" or "Mike was the best damn engineer at Intel, and I'd bet my life on his innocence" or "he must have suddenly just gone crazy, there is no other explanation" or "I'd trust him with my life" or...you get the picture.

It would be helpful to have a master list of such examples, with the names of the would-be or successful terrorists, beginning with John Walker Lindh, and Richard Reid, and David Hicks, and of course the Arab and Pakistani Muslims picked up hither and yon.

Such a Master List should, in fact, be composed by government security services and distributed not only to police forces, but disseminated on the Internet, so that those inclined to be unwary, to fall for the plausible smile, the looks of deep sincerity, the affability, the little inquiries designed to show that thoughtful, caring side, so very different from others too busy to show such an interest ("And you know, Walid always remembered to ask about my children -- none of my non-Muslim co-workers ever did.")

Perhaps a few names, dates, and pretend-claims of ignorance by family members, and real claims of ignorance by fellow Infidels, can be posted below.

patriot4:

"aint got nothin bad to say about Mormons,but i dont see anything proud about a strong showing for goergie in Utah"

Better then a strong showing for Kerry. I am not a Bushie and there are many things I disagree with him on. But he is doing more about the jihadist then Kerry would have. Even though he keeps calling Islam a "religion of peace"...ugh.

Think about it. The Mormon church and the islamic religion have something fundamental in
common that makes both frauds. Both were quasi-religions founded by nutcases, claiming to be
prophets, both of whom came out of nowhere and said that God spoke to them, and his word is
God’s word. One called his the Book of Mormon, the other called his the Koran. Think about
that. The mentality of both men were the same. Nonsense is nonsense and let us here at
jiwadwatch have the courage to be consistent in our condemnation of nonsense. Let’s not let
hypocrisy undermine our moral legitimacy in our struggle against islam.

The only difference is that Moroms are all gushy and warm and want to love everybody, and the
islamics want to kill everybody. Which is why I don’t think the mormons will put up a very good
fight against the jihads. They will most likely do what morons are famous for: Invite them for
coffee, cake, cookies and a discussion. That is when the islamics will take out their swords and
decapitate everybody.

What this struggle calls for is not cake and love, but armed conflict. Viking style. Islam needs to
be bludgeoned crusade-style, not anything the book of mormon will sanction.

Keep in mind that a lot of nasty things are said on this board about islam, all of them justified. So
remarks about other religions have to be taken in stride as well. There can be No sacred cows

"Islam needs to be bludgeoned crusade-style, not anything the book of mormon will sanction. "

I was not going to say more, but you are completely ignorant of Mormons.

You have obviously not read the book of mormon and you fundumentally misunderstand the LDS church.

You should read this:

It is an account of a man named Moroni who stands up to evil men and rallies the people to ***fight*** (with swords and shields) against those who wish to take away their freedom. Sound familiar? Sounds like what the jihadists want to do. I know most Mormons agree with me that jihadist seek to destroy all of our freedom and we must fight them and preserve our freedom. If that means on the battlefield so be it...

You do not know what you are talking about...do some research.

killerbees,

True,but we don't really no what Kerry would have done(not saying I'm for him)but we already knew about bush.Pretty much all pol's are crooked to a degree,but bush has very strong ties to the house of Saud,and you know he will do nothing about their form of islam.To them your either a muslim,a infidel,a infidel that converts,or an infidel that is killed,because he wont convert.It wasn't a
coincidence most of the terrorist on 9/11 were saudie,from bin-ladin down.That is exactly what they are taught in school,mosque's,America is the great satin to all saudie's,from the royals down.I don't now the answer of who would have been better between the 2.The governments most important job is to protect us,and they ain't doing it.

patriot4,

I agree the house of Saud should have been at the top of the short list. But, Kerry's rheotric was such that I think he would have done less (I am talking about his saying terrorism is like prositution and should be handled as such).

I took Bush because he seemed the lesser of the two evils. But, you are correct the government is not doing what it should...

Thethinker: Yeah, but what's yer point? This is Jihad Watch, not your platform to bash whomever you please.

thethinker,

I do not agree theologically with Mormons however I have had the pleasure to know several while serving in the US Marine Corps together. They are good people, who love this country and everything it stands for. (Interestingly enough I never met any muslims in the USMC although I would guess their are a few).

Religious based dialogue is needed between Mormons and Christians (in my case authentic Catholicism), but to in any way equate Mormons with Islam is just irresponsible.

Unlike muslims, Mormons I have known respond to sincere and open discussion regarding religions beliefs (on a lighter note, while in the USMC the ones I knew didn't adhere to the non-alcohol rule as I shared many a beer with them...).

Why don't we focus on the real issue, the islamic jihad threat. Not Mormonism, which from my experience has been 100% positive, people we can live peacefully alongside who are not trying to subjugate the whole world.

I hope that the optimists posting here are right in their assertions that the Mormons will put up a fight. However, my reading of Mormon history inclines me to fear that the LDS church might actually find common cause with these Mohammedan fanatics.

In particular, I refer to the practice of 'Lying for the Lord', which has an uncanny resemblance to taqquiya.

http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm

There is also the practice of polygamy, historical in official Mormonism but still practiced in Islam.

And if you want a parallel with mass murders described in the Koran, tacitly condoned by religious leaders and covered up by church authorities, you may wish to acquaint yourselves with the facts relating to the Mountain Meadows massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

Willy Eckerslyke.

"In particular, I refer to the practice of 'Lying for the Lord', which has an uncanny resemblance to taqquiya.

http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm"

Did you even read the article this site references from Mr. Oaks? Here is a quote:

"I suppose most mortals employ some exaggeration and a little of what someone called “innocent after-mindedness.” But does this mean we condone deliberate and important misrepresentations of fact in a circumstance in which they are clearly intended to be believed and relied upon? Never! Lying is sinful, as it has always been, and there is no exempt category for so-called “lying for the Lord.” Lying is simply outside the range of permitted or condoned conduct by Latter-day Saints—members or leaders."

from:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/oakslying.shtml

"And if you want a parallel with mass murders described in the Koran, tacitly condoned by religious leaders and covered up by church authorities, you may wish to acquaint yourselves with the facts relating to the Mountain Meadows massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre"

Read the entire article, it clearly states it was not condoned and was done by a few crazies. This is ridiculous. You are equating Mormons with Islam because of single event of some crackpots, compared to centruries of Muslim oppression. So, question for you how many other massacres did the Mormons commit?

Willy Eckerslyke,

It does not suprise me in the least, since in truth Mormons are not Christians in the purest sense. The reason being is because they violate a command of the Lord in the New Testement book of Revelation that forbids the addition or subtraction of the Word of God, the Bible. They violated it by adding a seperated book called " The Book Of Mormon ". Plus other practices which the Christian faith does not accept is why the Mormon church is not a Christian church.

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone.
Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful
to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.
Thomas Jefferson

Just want to add another note : The people who are Mormon, whom I have gotten to meet are among the nicest folks one can meet. It is just on the theology that I have to disagree.

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of religion*,
have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned;
yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity.
What has been the effect of coercion?
To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites

*he said actually said Christianity,I subsituited it will religion,organized releigion (all of them)has screwed up people's minds.You can beleive in god withought saddleing with one or the other.(just my opinion not saying anybody is wrong or right)

I have a friend who is over in Utah doing family history related stuff on his vacation.

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone.
Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful
to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.
Thomas Jefferson"

Here, here.

Whether some might believe that Mormons are Christians or not, the fact still remains that most Mormons are ardent believers that the jihadists threaten all religions no matter who or what they believe. And I am a Mormon, and I afford every man the right to believe what they wish as long as they do not ***force*** (i.e. by sword, etc.) me to believe there way. The Mormon church does not ***force*** anyone to believe their way, so I would say there is nothing in common with Islam. These insinuations are flat wrong about Mormons.

Killerbees:

Your untruthful claim that I am 'equating Mormons with Islam' is clearly intended to deflect attention from my pointing out the strong and distinctive parallels between these two movements, particularly in terms of the way they deal with outsiders.

And the Mountain Meadows massacre was not done 'by a few crazies', as you claim. It was carried out under the express orders, in writing, of a Lieutenant Colonel in the Mormon Militia. Its planning, preparation and execution took shape over a period of several days and relied on the exercise of diplomacy between the Mormon administration and their allies among the Native Americans. Two survivors of the initial assault fled, and were pursued for 150 miles into the desert, before being killed in order to ensure their silence.

And by an uncanny coincidence, the massacre took place on September 11th.

Willy Eckerslyke

"Your untruthful claim that I am 'equating Mormons with Islam' is clearly intended to deflect attention from my pointing out the strong and distinctive parallels between these two movements, particularly in terms of the way they deal with outsiders."

Pray tell what were you trying to point out?

You said it:

"However, my reading of Mormon history inclines me to fear that the LDS church might actually find common cause with these Mohammedan fanatics."

You say we might find common cause. I asked you to show where the practice is made that Mormons must kill others...so please show how the Mormons practice murder to progess their belief? Give me some other examples...

I will even give to you the Mountain Meadows Massace (although, I still do not agree with your assessment of the events).

I am not trying to deflect, you brought it up...for what other reason did you bring it up?

"Your untruthful claim that I am 'equating Mormons with Islam' is clearly intended to deflect attention from my pointing out the strong and distinctive parallels between these two movements, particularly in terms of the way they deal with outsiders."

To further bring home the point. Say is it required to be a Mormon to live in Utah?

The answer is no. Never has be or ever will be.

Can other religions practice in Utah?

Yes. There is a very active a vibrant Catholic community in Utah. Among others, in fact out my window here in Utah is a Baptist church.

So, how is that Mormons treat outsiders like Muslims? Do Mormons behead non-Mormons in Utah? Do Mormons outlaw other religions and require them to pay a tax to practice that religion? Where exactly is the parallels between Mormons and Muslims, other then a single event that happened over 100 years ago?

Killerbees:

You ask, 'Pray tell what were you trying to point out?'

Well, how about, from that same post, ' . . .the strong and distinctive parallels between these two movements, particularly in terms of the way they deal with outsiders.'?

Does that help? Killerbees, please pay attention.

And you invite me to point out 'where the practice is made that Mormons must kill others . . .'

Well, I don't know about 'practices being made', whatever that may mean, but how about written orders from a Lieutenant Colonel in the Mormon Militia instructing his men (all Mormons) to carry out a massacre? Followed by almost a century and a half of attempted cover up by Church elders which gives the impression that the episode was then, and still is, tacitly condoned.

It was the worst terrorist outrage in US history prior to the Oklahoma bombing, carried out by followers of Mormonism who believed unwaveringly in the rightness of their actions. Does this have a resonance with some of the statements we have heard from jihadists?

I look forward to the day when One Mighty and Strong among the leadership will step up and acknowledge Mormonism's culpability for this terrible crime. In the same way that I await condemnation from the Muslim community of the antics of jihadists.

Willy Eckerslyke

And by an uncanny coincidence, the massacre took place on September 11th.

no sh**?thats a bad,bad date.I dont even like looking at the clock when its 9:11

"Well, how about, from that same post, ' . . .the strong and distinctive parallels between these two movements, particularly in terms of the way they deal with outsiders.'?

Does that help? Killerbees, please pay attention."

I was paying attention, and I asked for you to show where this is common procatice in Mormonism as it is in Islam, since you say there are reasons to believe that Mormons will find "common cause" with Muslims.

"It was the worst terrorist outrage in US history prior to the Oklahoma bombing"

Pearl Harbor?

Okay you bring up Oklahoma. So a common arguement among muslims apologists is that terrorism is not an Islam thing because of Timothy McVeigh. We all know that is bunk, so how is that different then what you are arguing? That because of a single act then Mormons have "common cause" with Muslims?

Hey folks, remember no state religion. I know from my time in vietnam, that my fellow Mormon counry men can be counted on, when needed. RL

Hey folks, remember no state religion.

yup

and redleg64,thank you for your service

I just want to mention that I am utterly offended at the insinuation that I have "common cause" as a Mormon with Muslims or jihadist Muslims. I consider it an insult and attack of my character. I abhor the violent and intolerant practices of Islam, and as a Mormon as I have said before (on this thread) I afford every man their right to worship how they wish as long as they do not force me to worship the same. I too expect the same from all men. And I think it is totally irresponsible to lump all Mormons with some acts of some people over 100 years ago. And some how say that we have “common cause”.

Again, I am offended by your insinuations, Willy.

From my understanding of Mormonism I can worship my faith freely as its not a tenant of their faith that I be forcefully converted. From my experience most Mormons I know would rather be left alone than try to aggressively convert others.

I can say this much, Anti-Catholicism seems to rear its ugly head predominatly with certain Protestant groups as opposed to Mormons. Mormons in general seem to be much more respectful of disagreements in beliefs. Hence equating islam and Mormonism seems to be quite unfair.

If you are interested in open dialogue with other faiths and forming relationships that may lead to conversion, try a softer approach (no, I didn't say be a pushover). You can be open to dialogue and respectful without compromising your own beliefs. I can't see how mocking others (in this case Mormons) in which their is commonality on the threat of islam will lead to any real dialogue. Seems to me insulting others for their beliefs is an approach much like a muslim would use. You don't have to agree, but you can be respectful.

I see a bad sign here. What I see is an indication of a big battle lurking just over the horizon. The reasons for it is no one saw it coming. Why? No one took the time to study what Islam was all about. Another reason - those that did and tried to alert the departments and people in government were silenced. Another reason - people in high places are blinded by their pursuit of power and greed the come to believe Islam is a religion - it’s not - it’s a cult. They believe it’s a “religion of peace.” It has developed into the biggest cover-up in the history of world. The door has been allowed to open for hordes of the enemy to flock into every country of the planet with the blessings of the power hungry and greedies. Even now, when it has been allowed to reach a critical stage, the governments are so wrapped up in PC, “civil rights”, and don’t make waves, hardly nothing is done. It’s out of control to where if allowed to continue any farther, it will be up to the citizens to defend their country.

Having been in the military myself, I agree with adobe. There was never any conflict with any religion what so ever. I have known and talked to those that were in major battles. They told me of the horrific conditions of battle. Every one of them talked to their own God who ever He might be. And when it was over, they thanked Him. Even those who weren’t religious. My main point here is what in the world are we nit picking about some one who might be Mormon - or Catholic - or protestant? When it comes down to where all of us are faced with a possible disaster - hey we’re all in it.

When it comes down to where all of us are faced with a possible disaster - hey we’re all in

exactly

and thank you for your service

Mormons are a part of Christainity that is worlds apart from islam. l do not fear going to Utah of losing my head, suicide nutbars etc. l know years ago Christian churchs in remote areas you sometimes ran into a tyranical type priests. l am told my grandfather was not allowed to be burried in the community graveyard but in the bush like an animal, because he did not attend Church services. It was not until my father was a grown and the Parish got a new priest that when this priest found out about some of the people burried in the forest next to the cemetary that he had them exhumed and burried properly. you see in remote areas, not like now tyranical types could get away with this. Christianity have modernized because in their teachings it allowed for changes. with Islam anyone who attempts to reform is called an aposate and can be killed. anti remformation is built into islam. so the more l know about islam the more l hate it.

THSIMJ

You are right.

It is sad to see this bickering about who is a real Christian or not. Jesus Christ will decide who is or not.

In this war, it does not matter if people are Christians - Catholic or Protestant, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Athiests or whatever. All of us face a real threat in islam's growing presence in the West, through large scale and uncontrolled immigration, and the demographic growth rate.

The Mormons I have met have been kind and good people. They may have different notions of the Bible but so do Jews, and even more so Hindus and others. What does it matter as long as they all perceive the real threat from a politico-religious ideology that would enslave all, and are prepared to fight it by all means.

The Mormon Tabernacle has the most up to date family archives of any religion. Last time I checked Utah was part of the USA. It's just a dry state that allows you to bring in your own booze. Friends and allies...not sleeper cells.

Killerbees:

Your multiple posts, each containing distortions of the contents of my original one, serve to provide further parallels between the religion you claim to follow and that of Islam.

You claim that I 'equate' Mormons with Islam, while in fact I merely suggested that the LDS church (which represents only a portion of Mormons) might find common cause with Islamists. Not the same thing at all, is it? A distortion like that, in which you seek to exaggerate my suggestion in order to make it appear preposterous, well, a Mohammedan might call that 'taqquiya'. Or is it 'kitman'?

Well, thanks for providing evidence corroborating my suggestion.

In your most recent post, you take offense at my criticism of LDS leadership and choose to regard it as a personal attack upon yourself. Well, do you understand that it is difficult to distinguish such a stance from that of the people who claimed, unjustifiably in my view, to be personally offended by the cartoons caricaturing Mohammed?

(Your religion would possibly fare better in the perception of the readership if it were spared your blustering and cack-handed attempts to defend it.)

But I would propose a simple way to determine which way the LDS leadership is likely to go in relation to its dealings with encroaching Islam.

Either, the LDS leadership (and the Utah State legislature, following it), will desist in its persecution of Mormon polygamists, acknowledging the hypocrisy of condemning them on the one hand whilst tacitly accepting settlement within the state by polygamous Mohammedans on the other. Polygamy for Mormons will be permitted once again, and the Utah (and Arizona) constitutions will be amended accordingly.

Or, the church will show consistency and even-handedness by publicly condemning polygamy in Islam, as it does in respect of those Mormons who still practice it, and calling for the same strictures to be placed upon polygamous Mohammedans as are currently applied to polygamous Mormons. including denial of priveleges attendant upon legal residency and citizenship.

Failing one or other of the above, the church will be faced with either sliding further into dhimmitude, or seeking a temporary accommodation with Islam to try to hang on to its wealth. And the record of the church in doing the right thing when it stands to lose material wealth is not an encouraging one. Not only in view of the attempts which were made to cover up the Mountain Meadows massacre, but more recently in respect of the laughable antics of the elders of the church in attempting to cover up the existence of the Salamander letter and other provocative forgeries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamander_Letter

Oh - and do you not regard Pearl Harbor as an act of war, rather than a terrorist outrage? Millions of your countrymen took that opposing view, and hundreds of thousands died. Was that a mistake, confusing an act of war with a terrorist outrage?
If only you had been there to put them straight about it.

Willy Eckerslyke

Willy,

"Your multiple posts, each containing distortions of the contents of my original one, serve to provide further parallels between the religion you claim to follow and that of Islam."

How am I distorting your original post? It seems to me the only parallels I see with Islam are you trying to say that I have "common cause" with Islam. Which ironically you do again in this post.

"You claim that I 'equate' Mormons with Islam, while in fact I merely suggested that the LDS church (which represents only a portion of Mormons) might find common cause with Islamists"

Oh, you "merely suggest" that we have "common cause"...what does that mean?

"Oh - and do you not regard Pearl Harbor as an act of war, rather than a terrorist outrage? "

What do you consider the Cole bombing? I consider them both an act of terrorism and war. Not only the Cole bombing, but the embassy bombing of Africa, 9/11, etc. They are all acts of terrorism and war.

I have spent far too much time on this today. I will accept the fact that you dislike Mormons. But, I would hope you accept the fact that I do not support Islam, nor anything like it. And I absolutely feel it is a threat to all people in all nations no matter of religious views. And I do not think the Salamander Letters or whatever else you want to bring up have anything to do with Jihadists, other then you dislike Mormons so much that you automatically go into anti-Mormon mode when you hear the word Mormon. Too bad.

No matter if one is Catholic, mainline Protestant, evengelical, or even Mormon, we must not let differences create big divisions at a time when we are all in this war together.

It is not surpising that the much talked about movie, United 93 is coming out this weekend, because nearly five years after 9/11, we have to be into this war together.

bigcatgirl3106

Go over to the "Jihadist tried in NYC subway plot" thread and see the way Universal Studios is distancing itself from the film, by decrying the existence of any such thing as Jihad. There is a link to LGF, with more details.

DP111
You said it better than I did. I have only one religion - between my God and I. No one interferes with it and I don’t interfere with anyone’s religion. That is until I learned what Islam is. I have been very careful in making a judgement on Islam. After observing what Islam has done to countries around the world, I feel it’s a matter of time when I will be faced with it. Then the gloves are off!!

Eckerslyke-
Lay off the damned Mormons! I personally think it is a sublimely silly religion but if anyone else wants to be a Mormon it is NONE of MY BUSINESS. All I know is I'm not AFRAID of Mormons. If you have to go back to Mountain Meadow Massacre to alarm me about the Mormons than I'm not too worried about the Mormons.

I apologize for semi-monopolizing this thread and taking it off-topic. I attempted early this morning to respond to a post that I thought was unfair. I asked the site administrator to remove my posts so that the discussion would not take the Mormon/Anti-Mormon route, which the article mentions nothing about. I have to admit that I responded after the removal of my posts, that was my error and I am sorry. I realized today that the anti-jihadist movement would always have problems because we bicker with one another over very silly matters. I will take me leave so that I am no longer a distraction…I am still a committed anti-jihadist and will do what I can to see that they do not succeed I just hope that we all, as was mentioned earlier, can focus on the common enemy that wishes to enslave all Mormons, Jews, Catholics, Atheists, etc.

I, for one, hope you'll stay. Your beliefs were attacked, insensitively, and repeatedly; you weren't the one who drove the thread off-topic, but rather, the ones who wouldn't let the subject die.

And it looks like the thread finally arrived at the conclusion that, yes, we're all in this together.

Besides, you're articulate, courteous, and I think the wider the range of belief systems that we can get on board against the global jihad-- whether Presbylutheran or Movementarian (to borrow two Simpsons religions as examples)-- the stronger we are.

"I, for one, hope you'll stay."

My apologies again, I meant my leave from this thread not the site.

I would hazard a guess that these monies wound up in Account 98. Yes--in the terrorism bank fund that we "infidels" are told doesn't exist but the one that somehow every crooked Arab politician (is there any other kind?)continues to make commercials for on the sly and which have appeared on al-Jazeera possibly up to the present day.

killerbees

You've been very civil throughout the thread. I don't condone the original posters who came out with (apparently deleted) comments about Mormons, which, justified or not, is totally off topic. I agree with Shinoliite, and don't blame you for responding the way you did.

I do wish others would leave non-Islamic quarrels off this site, since it is a major distraction from what is a common threat. This is the second anti-Mormon thread that I've seen in weeks, after the one on Dhimmiwatch on the polygamy TV show on HBO several weeks ago. If I wanted anti-Mormon bigotry, I'd have gone to an anti-Mormon site.

And why the snide comments from others about whether or not Mormons are Christians? This is sounding like the arguments about whether the Qadianis and Bahai are Muslims or not. Granted that Mormons and other Christians aren't conducting a jihad against each other, but who cares?

Willy, obviously you don't like the LDS but your attacks on Killerbees were cruel, antagonistic, and totally uncalled for. Killerbees did not participate in the massacre you are obsessed with, so shut the hell up. Mormons are harmless; would Donnie and Marie Osmond behead anyone or blow up a public building?
.

Posted by: killerbees at April 27, 2006 08:22 PM

FROM WHAT I COULD SEE IS YOU WERE FIGHTING WITH A MULSUM??

Yes willy is a mulsum bully like you peged him from the begining I was a little suprized you didn't pick up on the drink coffee and eat cakes Because we all Know that Mormans don't drink coffee??

And look at how he change the Subj?

NO MY BIG Q? IS did we ever catch that Marine Deserter wasn't he a mulsum who lived in Utah pretended he was kidnapped and showed up in Lebonon??

Most Mormons will fare well because they have stores to feed their Familys for a year if hard times come hope they have lot's of ammo too because looks like the mulsums have moved into their neighborhood??

I do love to Ski in Utah!!

Hugh is right how many times have we heard OH but he was such a nice guy???

Glad that some more islamic terrorist were caught and what ever it takes tax fraud works!!

Funny thing though seams they were caught in the USA and acording to R-PA Spector he doesn't like how we are catching these monsters?

ONE of these monsters was caught in Iraq manybe he was setting up Icream trucks for the kiddies??

Just wondering how many Iraqis he killed??

Now his lawyer susan says? WONDER IF SHE WILL TRAVALE TO IRAQ TO DEFEND HIM??

Do not bring this SOB back to the USA I"M sure the king of Jordan will love to get his hands on him send him there!!!

Remember he was a part of?

Confessions of Al-Qaida Suspects Who Allegedly Planned Attacks Aired
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, Apr. 27, 2004
AMMAN, Jordan - Al-Qaida plotted bomb and poison gas attacks against the U.S. Embassy and other targets in Jordan, suspects confessed in a videotape that aired Monday on Jordanian state television. A commentator said the plotters hoped to kill 80,000 people.
One of the alleged conspirators, Azmi al-Jayousi, said he was acting on the orders of Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian wanted by the United States for allegedly organizing terrorists to fight U.S. troops in Iraq on behalf of al-Qaida. U.S. officials have offered a $10 million reward for his capture.
Al-Jayousi, identified as the head of a Jordanian terror cell, said he met al-Zarqawi in neighboring Iraq to plan the attacks.
The 20-minute taped program contained what were described as confessions by the suspects, who were arrested a month ago. Officials said four terror suspects believed linked to the conspiracy died in a shootout with police in Amman last week.
A commentator on the tape, who wasn't further identified, said the plotters targeted Jordan's secret service, its prime minister's office and the U.S. Embassy.
"At least 80,000 people would have been killed," the commentator said. Al-Zarqawi "is the terrorist" who plotted this operation."
Another Jordanian suspect, car mechanic Hussein Sharif Hussein, was shown saying al-Jayousi asked him to buy vehicles and modify them so that they could crash through gates and walls.
The bearded Hussein, looking anxious, said al-Jayousi told him the aim was "carrying out the first suicide attack to be launched by al-Qaida using chemicals ... striking at Jordan, its Hashemite (royal family) and launching war on the Crusaders and nonbelievers."
Claim of Responsibility
A Web site known for publicizing messages from Muslim extremists on Monday carried a purported claim of responsibility from al-Zarqawi for suicide boat attacks against Gulf oil terminals Saturday that killed three Americans and disabled Iraq's biggest terminal for more than 24 hours.
"I have pledged loyalty to Abu-Musab to fully be obedient and listen to him without discussion," al-Jayousi said in the Jordanian television segment. He said he first met al-Zarqawi in Afghanistan, where al-Jayousi said he studied explosives, "before Afghanistan fell." He said he later met al-Zarqawi in Iraq, but was not specific about when.
The videotape also showed still photographs of al-Jayousi and nine other suspects. The commentator said four had been killed in clashes with security forces. Three of the slain men were identified as Syrians. But Syria has denied Jordanian claims that militants involved in the plot entered Jordan from Syria.
Al-Jayousi said he received about $170,000 from al-Zarqawi to finance the plot and used part of it to buy 20 tons of chemicals. He did not identify the chemicals, but said they "were enough for all the operations in the Jordanian arena."
Images of what the commentator said were vans filled with blue jugs of chemical explosives were included in the broadcast.
Hussein, the car mechanic, said he met al-Jayousi in 1999 but did not clearly say when the terror plans were laid out.
Al-Jayousi said he and Hussein bought five vehicles, including a truck which was to be filled with explosives and used to attack the intelligence department. At least two vehicles had forged license plates and car registrations.
Citing unidentified technical experts, the commentator said al-Jayousi had made enough explosives to cause "two explosions - conventional and chemical - which were to have directly affected an area within a 2-kilometer (one mile) radius."
Al-Jayousi said he began making the explosives in a secret lab. Another detained terror suspect, Ahmad Samir, said that he worked in one of the labs for two months. "I never had the chance to leave it at all ... for the protection of the operation."
No trial date has been set in the case.
Airing suspects' confessions before their trial is unusual in Jordan. In 1998, six men accused of affiliation with a militant group confessed on television to planting a bomb that exploded outside an Amman hotel. Five years later, a court found them innocent.
The unusual move may be an attempt to answer critics who claim the government has exaggerated the terror danger to justify tightening security. Officials in Jordan, a moderate Arab nation with close ties to the United States and a peace treaty with Israel, say the kingdom has been repeatedly targeted by al-Qaida and other militant groups.

NO SUSAN YOU WILL BE DEFENDING THIS GUY IN JORDAN NOT IN THE USA!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HIS FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND TOGETHER TO DESTROY THESE MONSTERS AMEN

poetcomic1:

You wrote, 'If you have to go back to Mountain Meadow Massacre to alarm me about the Mormons than I'm not too worried about the Mormons.'

Where did I try to alarm you about Mormons? Please find among my posts any phrase which could be interpreted as a warning about Mormons. And you might wish to refrain from referring to them as 'damned Mormons' - there are enough mainstream Christians who claim the Mormons will never find salvation already.

Shinoliite:

You wrote, 'Your beliefs were attacked, insensitively, and repeatedly;'

Where did I challenge any Mormon belief?
Please find among my posts any phrase which could be interpreted as challenging a Mormon belief. All of my criticism is directed at the cowardly clowns who comprise the LDS leadership.

Susanp:

You wrote, 'Willy, obviously you don't like the LDS but your attacks on Killerbees were cruel, antagonistic, and totally uncalled for.'

Where, in my posts, did I attack killerbees? (Apart from describing the style as 'blustering and cack-handed', which is more in the way of literary criticism.)
Please find among my posts any phrase which could be interpreted as attacking killerbees.

And Catherine:

You wrote, 'FROM WHAT I COULD SEE IS YOU WERE FIGHTING WITH A MULSUM??

Yes willy is a mulsum bully like you peged him from the begining'

Well Catherine, I really don't know where to begin with that one!

But folks, unless you get your acts together and start responding intelligently to the attacks that we are all going to start facing sooner rather than later both on the internet and in our daily lives, then our cause is already lost.

And one place to start is in Utah, where, due to the shameful dishonesty and dhimmitude of the LDS leadership, a devout Mormon (such as killerbees, perhaps), drives daily down streets where on one side his fellow Mormons are being harrased because they base their lives on a strict following of their founder's teachings on polygamy, whilst on the other side of the same street a Muslim immigrant with multiple 'wives' is being welcomed with open arms. Either this hypocrisy will end, or trying to keep the lid on it will drive the cowards who currently disgrace the seats of power in the LDS leadership and the Utah State Legistlature into more and more shameful dhimmitude.

Willy.

Willy,

Believe what you wish. But I have a few comments:

"And one place to start is in Utah, where, due to the shameful dishonesty and dhimmitude of the LDS leadership, a devout Mormon (such as killerbees, perhaps), drives daily down streets where on one side his fellow Mormons are being harrased because they base their lives on a strict following of their founder's teachings on polygamy, whilst on the other side of the same street a Muslim immigrant with multiple 'wives' is being welcomed with open arms."

Do you know this for a fact? Do you know what the Muslim population in Utah is? It is less then 0.1 %. I will tell you personally that I have never actually seen a muslim or arab in my time in Utah (12+ years). Utah is pretty much white people with a growing population of Hispanics. The only time I hear or see Muslims in Utah is when they are on the news, as with this article or the Muslim Marine a few years ago. No one here looks the other way, because we cannot find them. If you know of any Muslims here that are practicing polygamy tell me I will personally call the Att. General's office and report them. The other point to be made is that I have never seen a "mormon" polygamist. I am not sure were you are getting your information on this...

"Either this hypocrisy will end, or trying to keep the lid on it will drive the cowards who currently disgrace the seats of power in the LDS leadership and the Utah State Legistlature into more and more shameful dhimmitude."

I have never once heard anyone LDS leader or Utah politician say we should not prosecute the Muslim polygamist. Have you ever thought that the Muslim polygamist might not migrate to Utah since Utah has had high profile polygamist cases (i.e. Tom Green) and thus they think it might not be the safest environment for their practice of polygamy? The fact that no Muslims have been prosecuted for polygamy might be the fact that there are none or very few and that they have not been noticed yet. I think it is irresponsible to say the LDS leadership is hiding or ignoring the Muslims…they are hard to find in Utah. Where the Muslims in this article polygamists?

Eckerslyke-

Many have posted here that have a grudge and it becomes evident after a few postings. The enemy is not Mormons who are our allies in this war with islam.

Grow up and get over your grudge aganist Mormons or take it somewhere else.

The Texican.

Killerbees:

It's good to see that the hysteria has abated, so that we can talk about this sensibly.

Due to the absence to date of significant Muslim immigration into Utah which you point to, there hasn't yet been an opportunity for the hypocrisy of condemning Mormon polygamy on one hand, while condoning Muslim polygamy on the other, to be highlighted by any actual cases. But my original point was that, should this be brought into focus at some time in the future by a case in which, for example, a polygamous Muslim family are discovered residing in Utah (or Arizona, whose constitution also bans polygamy), then the dismal record of the LDS leadership in respect of standing up for its principles does not encourage me to be optimistic that they would show any more courage than Fitness First, Comedy Central or Belmont College did when faced with Muslim pressure.

I call to mind that they were willing to give up polygamy in order to court approval for their territory becoming a state, even though this must have caused significant hardship to families who had embraced the practice in good faith. What's the betting that, when push comes to shove and the dhimmi Feds start putting pressure on Utah to keep quiet about this 'double standard' on polygamy, the good old apostles will sniff the wind, seek to identify their own short-term private interests, and once again twist themselves into pretzels to avoid showing anything that might be mistaken for courage.

It's speculation, of course, but speculation based on a long record of cowardice by these folk going back almost to the beginnings of the movement. I have already mentioned their mealy-mouthedness in failing to properly acknowledge the extent of official involvement in Mountain Meadows, and there are other examples. Didn't they withhold information about documents they possessed which would have greatly strengthened the case against a murderer of two of their followers, in order to avoid embarrassment? I'm referring to the Hofmann case.

We can't say for sure what their response will be if the polygamy issue is brought into focus, but I would expect them once again to hightail it for the hills leaving their sincere followers (such as yourself) having to explain away the about-face by the church towards re-acceptance of polygamy in Utah. Interesting times lie ahead, it would seem.

Willy.

Seems I may have spoken too soon about the hysteria having abated. The 'Texican' joins the ranks of those who either cannot read, or deliberately mis-read my emails to conclude that I have some kind of dislike of Mormons.

Talk about falling educational standards, sounds like Texas must be at the bottom of the literacy test tables.

Willy.

Willy,

"then the dismal record of the LDS leadership in respect of standing up for its principles does not encourage me to be optimistic that they would show any more courage than Fitness First, Comedy Central or Belmont College did when faced with Muslim pressure."

I guess I still don't understand, the LDS church does not enforce laws in Utah. And yes, most people will say the "church has influence". But, the church has not said word one about the somewhat popular non-muslim polygamists cases that have been prosecuted recently in Utah (other to reiterate that the folks are not members of the mormon church and the church does not practice or support polygamy anymore). So, are you suggesting the church would help get polygamist muslims off the hook? They have not done that for the currently prosecuted polygamists that are not members of their church...
The examples you show of the church's so-called "cowardice" all had the church's self-interest, I see nothing for the LDS church to gain by protecting the muslim polygamist, maybe I am missing something. The church has stood firm against the homosexual lobby on the issue of same gender marriage (and continues too). Even with the threat of homosexual lobby suing to take away the non-profit status of the church (this happen in California a few years ago). One cannot point and say, "Well if they protect the muslim polygamist it will allow the LDS church to again become polygamist". That is simply untrue; the LDS church supports laws (even US constitutional amendments) that define marriage between a man and a woman (not women, in the plural). Those laws will clearly outlaw polygamy on a federal level.

http://www.lds.org/newsroom/issues/answer/0,19491,6056-1-202-4-202,00.html

ASA

Removing the misconceptions about Islam
The pluralistic American society has changed from being a "melting pot" to a "salad bowl" where all ingredients are encouraged to preserve and display their distinct tastes and flavors. However, even though Islam is a major religion with over 1.25 billion followers worldwide and over 8 million in the U.S., some Americans still mistake it for a cult, or that all Muslims are terrorists, or that every Muslim has 4 wives. The really naïve among my compatriots ask me if my wife puts on a veil, walks behind me, and belly dances for me! Misconceptions about Islam and Muslims continue because of the lack of availability of correct information about the basic teachings of Islam.

The misrepresentation of Islam by the media, especially Hollywood, often challenges Muslims to answer questions put forth by their non-Muslim neighbors, colleagues, and friends. I have been blessed by the opportunity of speaking about Islam and Muslims to non-Muslims in schools, colleges, churches, synagogues, inter-faith gatherings, and on radio and TV talk shows. Such experiences have been most rewarding, often resulting in friendships. In addition, these experiences have enabled me to put together 25 frequently asked questions about Islam, and of course my answers to them.