Courtroom Jihad Update: Moussaoui tried to appeal. Sami Al-Arian is appealing. These paintball mujahedin are appealing. Thus the mujahedin tie up astronomical amounts of money and time that could otherwise be devoted by the infidels to more worthwhile pursuits. This is a byproduct of the Western sense of justice and the system that has resulted from that sense. I am not saying that these men should be automatically denied the right to appeal. But make no mistake: this is part of their overall jihad effort.
"Court Hears Appeal in 'Jihad Network' Cases," from AP, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
Three U.S. Muslims convicted in a conspiracy that began with paintball games to train for a holy war against the United States were improperly denied a jury trial, their lawyers told a federal appeals court Thursday.A federal prosecutor, however, argued that the three had to live with their "tactical decision" to entrust their fate to a judge.
"They got exactly what they wanted," Assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg told a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.Masoud Khan of Gaithersburg, Md., Seifullah Chapman of Alexandria and Hammad Abdur-Raheem of Falls Church were part of what prosecutors called a "Virginia jihad network" that prepared to join the Taliban by playing paintball games in the woods near Fredericksburg in 2000 and 2001.
In all, the government charged 11 men. Six entered plea bargains and two were acquitted.
Khan was convicted of the most serious charges, including conspiracy to levy war against the United States and conspiracy to contribute services to the Taliban. He trained with the militant, anti-American group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which the government later designated a terrorist organization....
Lawyers for Chapman and Khan also are appealing their clients' sentences. Khan was originally sentenced to life plus 65 years in prison, but that was reduced to life plus 45 years. Chapman's original 85-year sentence was reduced to 65 years.
The government is appealing Abdur-Raheem's sentence reduction from eight years and a month to four years and four months.
I think a new set of laws should be set in place for jihadis. They were out to kill for their beliefs, and they should be treated differently from the common criminal. All that a jihadi wants is to harm the society in general. He does not take exceptions to anything, women, children. Beslen showed exactly how much compassion these jihadis have for the very young. Like there is a seperate set of rules for the mentally sick, so there should be one for jihadi cultists.
I agree, our judicial system needs serious revamping. We need to introduce profiling, expired visa enforcement, mandatory deportation of all violators found, stiffer sentences on convictions on any matter involving threats and/or actions against our hard earned (and at times, costly)freedoms and hard earned benefits of a free choice livelyhood lifestyles.
As has been noted many times on many websites, the mainstream media abhorent refusal to publish the numerous daily incidents that are availiable to reflect the true nature of the evergrowing threat to very people who love freedom allows the threat of death to grow in ever increasing increments.
I cannot understand the reasoning behind the oft heard comment " I support the troops, but not the war". This rationale indicates some people do not understand "the war" and the implications that a failure to win would result in.
WAKE UP AMERICA and start winning like you mean it. This means absolute border security should begin immediately.
In the case of the Mexican border, Mexican President V.Fox thinks the US is militarizing the border---well DUH, it should be so. Also note that the Canadian border is vastly more unsecure than the Mexican border.
Every Mosque in America should be monitored to see who goes in and out. Some may object to this but who/what religion is causing 95% of all the violent confrontations in the world today??
I have not seen any Methodist,Hindu,Protestant,Catholic,or any other major religion promoting absolute death to any non believer. The Muslim religion gives new meaning to the term "No Child Left Behind". They will also leave no one else behind.
WAKE UP AMERICA, SPREAD THE ALARM, THE ENEMY IS AMONG YOU!! LEARN TO RECOGNIZE AND DESTROY THE THREAT---THROW POLITICAL CORRECTNESS ASIDE IF YOU ENVISION YOUR CHILDREN AND FUTURE GENERATIONS ENJOYING THE SAME FREEDOMS YOU HAVE ENJOYED IN YOUR LIFETIME. LIFE UNDER MUSLIM RULE IN NOT GOOD!!
It's wishful thinking but sometimes an appeals judge imposes a stiffer sentence than the one dished out in the initial trial.
Where's a hanging-judge when you need one?
Why are they so upset? I thought they wanted to die and go to paradise?
We are happy to hepl them!!
Are they too scared to die?
You have to wonder where these Jihadist are getting their money to fight the US Department of Justice. Ordinary Americans are broken every day by lawyer expenses when they get enmeshed in our legal system. For Muzz-Jihadists the cash fountain is ever flowing
Arjun you are right. They want to kill our way of life and substitute theirs. THe Virginia State Motto is "Sic Semper Tyrannis", translation: "Death To All Tyrants". I hope they apply that to Mohammedan tyrants as well.
"astronomical amounts of money and time..."
-- from the comment by Robert above
What is the actual expense caused by the large-scale presence of Muslims in the Lands of the Infidels, which they themselves are taught to believe are enemy lands, so that they are now settling deep within those enemy lines, entrusted with the task of transforming it, slowly or quickly, and making it a place where, eventually, Islam can dominate and Muslims rule?
What is the cost of guarding every subway train and station, every bus station, every railroad station, every airport, and many planes? What is the cost of guarding synagogues and Jewish day schools, churches and Christian schools, Hindu temples? What is the cost of guarding the outspoken -- from Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders, to Mr. Hagen in Norway? What is the cost to protect pipelines, water-treatment plants, nuclear reactors? What is the cost to search for, or to keep under surveillance, known or suspected supporters of terrorism, whose support may be anything from active participation and planning, to giving refuge, to fundraising, to propaganda?
What is the cost -- can someone offer a figure -to the countries of Western Europe and North America -- to arrest, and try people? To pay for the long investigations, to pay for a whole network of informers, some of whom are no doubt completely phony but have found a new way for Muslims to make a living on Infidel backs -- by offering to watch other Muslims, when the whole problem need not have existed in the first place.
Is it tens of billions a year? Is it hundreds of billions a year? And what could that money be done, had the mistake never been made in the first place, had Islam been understood before admitting people, to relieve poverty, to prevent cuts in spending on health, education, social security, if this enormous expense, which grows and grows and grows, were not present?
And shall we add in the hundreds of billions spent on the Jizyah of foreign aid to Muslim countries? The damage done, already, to the school systems, social cohesion, and general pleasantness of life in France, in Holland, in Germany, in England, in Belgium, in Norway, in Denmark, in Sweden?
What will that mosque proposed for Val d'Elsa in the heart of Tuscany -- that huge mosque demanded by local Muslims, to be erected between Siena and Florence, arising out of the Tuscan countryside, much to the horror of the local population that may be powerless to prevent this alien intrusion -- this alien and hostile intrusion, in the midst of green Tuscany?
What will it all add up to? What does it add up to right now?
This is the (endlessly costly) problem with misunderstanding the judicial venue for such "criminals".
This, and every trial like it, should be taken care of by a military tribunal, since this is a spy/saboteur/terrorist caught during wartime.
There is no appeal once the firing squad does its job.
Pissing millions of dollars down this legal rathole -for each prisoner- is just once more weapon of the jihad.
Time to get the type of threat that they pose cleared-up in the fogged-up legal mindset.
These are not "criminals", but warriors.
They don't deserve civil trials.
But swift military tribunals.
Let them appeal to Allah.
dennisw
I haven’t checked, but I would imagine the money comes from me and every other America who pays their taxes.
The US Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law , I think it would be extremely dangerous to change that, today we would exclude Moslems, tomorrow it would be Christians and Jews.
As profitsbeard has suggested, a military tribunal limits their ability to endlessly appeal. The Mexican-America war, the Civil war and WW2 all used military tribunals.
In WW2 this was used against some Nazis saboteurs that were at one time American citizens.
Once again, we have insanity at it's finest. these Islamofeces are obvious seditous insurrectionists and they are being treated like criminals! These Islamofeces are enemy combatants and the sick thing about it is that they are training themselves in OUR COUNTRY!!! to fight against "We the People!!!!" To usurp the very laws and freedoms that allowed them to do so. If there was ever a case for a military tribunal this is the case. The civilian court system is not designed to handle cases like this one. These Islamofeces are enemy infiltrators. And if they are sworn immigrants, they are traitors of the United States and the Constitution. Once again, this is for the military courts to handle, not some liberal court of uneven law/justice.
I wonder if it would be possible to pass a bill in the Senate which would outlaw the appeals process for convicted jihadist-terrorists. Perhaps this is something we could all discuss with our representatives in the legislature--seriously.
I am going to contact my reps on this issue and I recommend other Jihad Watchers do the same. Many legislators are concerned about protecting Americans from Islamic terror and would raise this issue for discussion, I am sure, at legislative sessions.
I do think if it were possible to pass such a bill blocking the use of our appeals process by convicted terrorists that would take some of the wind out of the sails of Ousamah bin Looney Tunes and other such jihadist megalomaniacs like him.
pythagoras
The only way to accomplish what you suggest, would be to re-write section 1 of the 14th amendment of our Constitution.
Bar & Pythagoras;
There is one thing that is not being taken into concideration. Jihadist/terrorist aren't United States citizens. The Constitution dosen't apply in their case. And if a jihadist/terrorist is a naturalized immigrant, then he/she can be charged with treason. Thus the reason why all terrorism cases should be tried in a military court of law and not a civilian court. Congress would have nothing to do with the legal proceedings what so ever. Only the Pentagon, National Security Agency, Department of Defense, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff would preside over such matters. No civilian be they congressman or senator would have a say what so ever in the case. No politicing the case what so ever. There is usually an appeal made in a military court but it's very rare. Military law is almost perfect in trial ruling and outcome. The UCMJ or the Uniform Code of Military Justice is at least 90 to 99% accurate. If you got caugt, it's because you did it! A terrorist could get a civilian lawyer to represent him/her in a military tribunal. But they have to have a qaulifying, working knowledge of the UCMJ or military law. This eliminates the chance of a mistrial due to legal council incompetance. Now you see why the liberals on Capital Hill want terrorist tried in the civilian court system. Jihadist/terrorists are not criminals, they're enemy combatants. And should be treated as such in a military court of military law.
Ironman Hondo
On the contrary.
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
.... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of laws.
I agree with a military tribunal, I am just not sure most Americans would let Bush get away with it, like FDR did.
Ironman Hondo -- It's not accurate to assume that the Jihadists won't be US Citizens and not just "naturalized' ones at that. There have been several known cases of US citizens involved in violent Jihad. Remember the cases of 'Johnny Taliban' and Yassir Hamadi? In addition -- it's inevitable that "home grown terrorists" will emerge here to as they have done virtually everywhere Muslims reside in Dar ul Harb.
Has there ever been a more perfect storm to challenge our Western Democratic system than Islam? I don't think so. The blurring of culture, politics, and 'religion' makes it so much more opaque than, say, communism or radical nationalism.
The subtlety of the Muslim onslaught against us is also vexing. It makes it almost impossible for the unwary, the unfamiliar, or the thoroughly duped to comprehend what's afoot. In addition -- in, what I have often described as Jihadi Jujitsu -- Muslims have done a spectacular job of taking the very rights, riches, and knowledge which makes the West desirable and great, and malevolently abused those very things to harm us and advance their agenda. Their cynacism is truly vile. Our internet is used against us. Our open mindedness is used against us to further Islam. Our freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion are all used against us to further Islam. Our planes and hardware, our nuclear technology is used against us to further Islam. Our court system, our lawyers, our media is used against us to further Islam. The wealth is used against us -- as is our political system to further Islam and Muslim goals exclusively.
Elsewhere at this site someone said that acts of terror are not the most dangerous aspect of Islamic Jihad. In that argument, demographics ranked far higher, and I would agree. If we do nothing to change the current state of affairs, without admitting a single additional Muslim into the USA we still face a growing population of native born Muslims on our shores. Some will surely abandon Islam, but many (and perhaps most) ultimately will not. And there's always the danger of Muslim hatred's recrudescence, even in 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims who "rediscover" Islam at a later date.
In short - I believe that EVERY act which furthers ANY aspect of Islam in our non-Islamic region is Jihad -- and is ultimately dangerous to us.
Right on JSLA and Hugh, the cost of muslims in the west is immense. They are parasites. But not just any parasite, like a tape worm, but a virus. Not only do they live off of us, but their existence threatens our very survival. Eventually like a virus or bacteria, they multiple, sapping the strength of the host for its own expansion, which then invariably kills the host. And when the host dies, so does the virus. But the virus doesn't know that.
If Islam takes over the west, the west will no longer be rich and successful, it will become like all lands and cultures absorbed by islam - a poverty-striken wasteland.
Islam, like a deadly infection, kills everything it touches. It is a pathogen. Islamolia. A disease-causing invader.
We are looking at islam under a microscope. We can see the little pathogens wiggling, swimming, and attacking healthy human cells. Once they invade the cell, the islam virus causes the cell to die whithering from the inside. When enough of the cells are penetrated and die, the host creature, usually a human, dies too. The body then starts to decay as islam bacteria consume the corpse for nourishment.
We see this because we have a microscope. But most people do not see the islam virus because it is too small for their eyes to see.
Hugh:
"...What will that mosque proposed for Val d'Elsa in the heart of Tuscany -- that huge mosque demanded by local Muslims, to be erected between Siena and Florence, arising out of the Tuscan countryside..."
Any links about this? This is news to me!
To JSLA;
You're right. I was not refurring to homegrown jihadists. But rather jihadist that become or fake U.S. naturalization to gain a more secure foot hold in this country by which they can give away secrets or provide vital information to fellow jihadist aqbroad. Trust me, I'm not assuming that all jihadists are of a foreign nature. I know from personal experience, of the U.S. born jihadists. I was addressing the issue from the viewpoint that a Muslim that was helping raise funds for a terrorist group overseas to further the cause of jihad against Israel and the United States, Found guity, ordered deported by a U.S. court of law and is now using that same court system, to get them to turn a blind eye to his goings on through the appeals process.
Now, homegrown terrorist jihadist would fall under military law only if they commit acts against the military, such as trying to trespass a military instillation or base. Once again, military law being almost perfect, if one was to storm a military base, that individual would meet with very stiff armed resistance. Once again, If you got caugt by the military, 10 times out of 10, it's because you did it!
To Bar,
Amendment XIV Section 1. only applies to American citizens or naturalized immigrants. But if one is a foriegn enemy combatant, he/she falls under military jurisdiction.
As far as most Americans not allowing for military tribunal for terrorists, President Bush needs to grow a set and follow through in his role as Commander in Chief by following the Constitution despite public opinion. History would record that he followed the Constitution to the letter and tried the terrorist/enemy combatants as the Constitution ruled fit.