Of course, this contradicts...Of course, we condemn....Of course, we abhor...
And the BBC calls this a "semblance of order."
Sharia Alert from Somalia: "Boy, 16, executes father's killer," from the BBC, with thanks to Jihad Watch Junkie:
A teenage Somali boy has stabbed to death his father's killer in a public execution ordered by an Islamic court.Large crowds gathered at a Koranic school in Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, to watch Mohamed Moallim, 16, stab Omar Hussein in the head and throat.
Hussein had been convicted of killing the boy's father, Sheikh Osman Moallim, after a row about Mohamed's education.
Islamic courts have brought a semblance of order to Mogadishu, imposing Sharia law after years of rule by warlords.
Under Sharia law those who commit murder are punishable by death.
Keeping the peace
Hussein was tied to a stake and had his head covered by a bag ahead of his execution.
He shouted "There is no God but Allah" as Mohamed Moallim stepped up to take his revenge.
Speaking afterwards, the boy said he felt satisfied that Hussein was dead.
"I am happy now because I killed the man who killed my father," he told the Reuters news agency.
The execution marked the first time the local court in the Bermuda district of Mogadishu had handed down a death penalty, local media reported.
Residents in the nearby area have reported a drop in robberies, murder and general lawlessness since the court began its work, Radio HornAfrik said.
Sure. But that isn't a sign of a return to morality. That is just a sign of naked, abject fear. This is something that often clouds men's minds -- especially those on the Right who think that the moral puritanism of Islam make Muslims their natural ally. But this is the morality of terror, not of the values of love and respect that form the foundations of Christian moral teaching.
Of course, there are arguments for and against capital punishment. But practically every sane person in favour of it, would agree that the process should be carried out with due dignity with the condemned being offered spiritual comfort and as humane a death as possible.
This does not quite fit the bill.
And if the 16 year old grows into an adult who can discover right and wrong by himself, how will he feel when he looks back and sees what he was encouraged to do?
I think their right and wrong is different from our right and wrong.
That kid is on his way to being a mass murderer...a suicide bomber. He's tasted blood and loves it. There is no hope left for him.
And no...this is NOT a semblance of order. It's insanity.
If it's someone killing someone who might be said to have wronged him personally, it's not capital punishment, anyway. It's an act of private vengeance, albeit one enabled by what passes for a state in such places. The necessary distance, the sense that this "punishment" is not revenge (a word which, curiously, given the overall tone of the piece, the BBC does use here) but justice for an offence carried out against a member of the society and therefore, in some sense, against everyone and handed down by everyone in political form, ie., the state, is missing. Whether one believes in capital punishment or not, this is an act of barbarism, and corrupting for the child, who has this role and the associated emotions thrust on him.
That the BBC should use a form of words that excuses sharia - and, in effect, this kind of thing (because this is what sharia means) - is deplorable. It shows how low they have sunk in their lust (is such a term misplaced here?) to be "multicultural", whatever that might mean in concrete terms.
OK,so this 16 year old killed the man who killed his father.
Now what about the children of the man he exacted his revenge on,don't they now have the right to kill that 16 year old?
JLP
There's a lot to criticize in Islam, but this just isn't it. Who are we to judge if this is the means by which they carry out an otherwise perfectly just sentence?
JLP:
That's a dumb question. This 16 year-old did not commit order, but delivered a just sentence handed down by the state. Radical lefties may not make the distinction, but most Westerners, following natural law and Judaeo-Christian teachings, do teach that the state has this right.
A "semblance of order" is exactly why Islam manages to flourish but never advance culturally. Mohammed was a formidable military commander, a specialist in psy-ops and brutality, but not much of a legal scholar, theologan, or moralist.
The Sharia is cruel and despicable.
However, although I'm against the death penalty, that execution was more humane then they way it is carried out in the us, iran, africa or other countries that still have that horrible sentence.
However I'm sorry for the victim and for the 16-year old boy whom they made a murderer, although he's only a kid. He'll have that on his conscience forever
The State steps backward toward savagery.
The hallmark, the keystone, the DNA of Islam's code of behavior (you couldn't call it ethics or morals), Sharia Law.
Making killers of everyone.
For the "compassionate" Allah.
Somebody's been reading the message upside down.
Law clouded by personal vengeance is chaos.
Islam is nothing but.
melaniefromgermany said
In general, I try not to insult my fellow JW posters, but that is just plain ridiculous. Do you honestly think that getting stabbed in the head and neck is more humane than going to sleep with an intravenous drip? Does your hatred of the U.S. cloud your mind to that degree, that you would defend sharia slaughters? You might want to google "Berg beheading video" to see how "humane" Islamic law is in full glory.
DominvsVobiscvm, after insulting John Lee Pedimore, said
C'mon, you and Melanie are just trolling right? Somalia, the rest of us Westerners, is a bastion of Judaeo-Christian teachings, right? What alternate universe do you inhabit? Somalia is the home of tribal-affiliated blood feuds, not the Magna Carta.
Ask Tookie Williams what he would have preferred, specialjerk. Surely, the boy didn't need half an hour. And I'm so sick and tired of people who consider others USA-haters just because the mention an unpleasant fact.
So... you're against capital punishment in all forms, but the Somalis in this case have the moral high ground over the US for the way they do it?
In the islamic world, vengeance is a virtue. That is why they let the kid do it. The worst possible instincts that people have, are what powers islam. That is why it is the devil's ideology. Hate, sexual lust, pride, sloth, rape, revenge and vengeance. Those are the foundations of islam.
It is a primitive cult that was founded specifically upon all that is bad in the human condition. Mohammad took all that is corrupt in the worst people, and used that as clarion call for a religious organization. No wonder all Islamic countries are hellholes full of poverty, disease, war, illiteracy, and murder.
Shino, I would answer if JW didn't delete my post anyway. The censorship of this site is very worrying, a first step to a police state. Good I'm not in the USA
Melanie, people like you are reason that Europe is heading toward becoming an islamic state. And it is people like you which are the reason why I do not feel sorry for Europe.
And the whole time this is happening to you, you can say, "Damn, I hate those Americans."
LOL
Good luck.
thethinker wrote,
"In the islamic world, vengeance is a virtue."
How true.
"It is a primitive cult . . ."
This too is true.
In fact there is nothing in the two paragraphs
that I disagree with, nothing at all.
The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree,
and the three foundational texts of islam,
the koran, the sira, the hadiths of Bukhari
provide the template for the law, the sharia,
the primitive laws of the tribal arabs,
a people with little reasoning power,
few skills,and wild emotional excess.
Their only success is deception and war.
You'll be happy to hear it happened to me once, thinker. What a pity I didn't know you then, I could have asked the bastards to make a video for you and Spencer to get you turned on.
Melanie, I doubt your post would get pulled if you gave your logic for Tookie's death by lethal injection being worse then having one's throat cut in the public square.
I for one would find it interesting.
In the event you have some curiosity about such things, you might want to take a look at the autopsy photo of one of Tookie's victims. Half her head was blown away, for no reason other then the perp felt like it. In my book, Mr. Williams punishment was well deserved and delayed for far too long.
I also understand that Americans are considered barbaric for putting those younger then 18 to death, no matter how heinous their crime.
How then is it better to have an underage boy kill someone? Isn't that a form of child abuse?
The Sharia is cruel and despicable.
However, although I'm against the death penalty, that execution was more humane then they way it is carried out in the us. Posted by Melanie
Oh really? And just how do you figure that brutally stabbing a blindfolded man in the head and body is more humane than administering drugs to induce sleep, ensuring that no pain or suffering will ensue when additional drugs stop the heart? I think convicted murderers should be hanged, electrocuted, or shot so they can feel the same horror, fear, and pain they inflicted on their victims.
It's nice to know that "the Sharia is cruel and despicable", but not as cruel and despicable as the US. Do people like you ever contemplate the heinous crimes that condemned criminals commit, or the pain and suffering they inflict on their innocent victims and their families? Some people deserve to be executed for the horrendous crimes they commit, but not in the manner decreed by this medieval Sharia court.
Only left-wing lunatics are capable of turning a cold-blooded killer into a poor, pitiful victim.
I expect they'll delete that anyway, as Jihad Watch uses censorship and don't need a reason to delete a message other than to disagree with them, but I'll try.
Both is cruel, but if you ask me, I think I'd prefer being stabbed to death in a minute, rather then waiting for a few years in the death cell before being led to an execution that lasts half an hour, which can be very long in that situation I presume.
Wow people, imagine that, it's possible to give a statement without insulting anyone. Hope that doesn't come as a shock for you.
(thinker, I shouldn't have reacted at all to your hatemail, but now that the damage is done, I guess I should add that it was 2 and not muslims. not your business anyway. It's because of people like you there are crimes on this earth.)
Well then I guess you haven't been gangraped by a gang of muslims then. Thus your ignorance and attitude. Good luck with your Europe. The West will make its last stand in America.
melaniefromgermany,
SpecialJerk? I haven't been hurt like that since I was in 4th grade, and someone called me "DaddyLongLegs". [sniff] I still feel the sting of that one.
Ho-hum, another troller trying to get us to focus on her (?) mental problems rather than the violent jihad that threatens our security. Bo-ring.
No, Robert doesn't need to have, or give, a reason, because it's his server. He deleted one of my posts once. It was probably because I'd made a silly joke at the expense of Hugh's syntax (which was perfectly good but gave a mildly amusing result if you deliberately misread it). He does like people to stay on topic and not trivialize too much. I've got over it. And he removes posts for other reasons, outright expressions of hatred, for example. Mostly, he lets things stand, because he says he believes a variety of opinion is healthy. But he's not under any obligation to permit anyone to say anything they like on his bandwidth. Start your own blog, if that's what you want to do.
I can't yet decide what your purpose is. But if you carry on denigrating the US when evidence of the appalling nature of other societies is before your eyes, I suspect people will conclude you're an Islamist posing as German in order to sow dislike of the Germans. In civilized societies, punishment has long been regarded as something that should not a matter of private revenge - does Hegel suggest it should be such in the Philosophy of Right? - and flogging and maiming are not appropriate sanctions. It beggars belief that someone can fly from one extreme to the other, holding contradictory ideas in his head, simultaneously condemning due process and excusing the barbarism of the sharia. But there are hints of this in the BBC's attitude to different events, and more than a hint of it your comments. Frankly, I find it nihilistic.
A mere 5 years ago the "melaniefromgermany"'s in Europe (and there are quite few of them) would have opposed the death penalty in all it's forms without any "howevers".
MelanieFromGermany,
1) I bet your name isn't melanie, probably mohammed or something.
2) You are obviously trying to get up the noses of the US posters here in order to "appear" to show that Europe is against America when in fact most of the people from the UK I know would quite happily cut through the bedrock and tow us off the East coast of the US (if that didn't mean bringing all the scum our government has allowed into my country with us, they could all go to "Europe").
and
3) Your arguments are not arguments, you are indeed a troller, an islamic one probably, judging by the way you don't seem to be able to use logical argument.
oh and
4) shut up
She has now promised to look at some material another poster has pointed her to in a thread on the main board, Dave. So she may be above board. If she is who she says she is, I hate to think what propaganda is being fed to people over there.
Worth a read
Why President Bush Embraces Islam as Peaceful
http://www.blessedcause.org/PressRelease/Bush%20Islam.htm
Hmmmmm. It would've been enough just to let the boy watch while the murderer got the long drop on a short tow or a 9mm cerebral hemorrhage.
I can't, however, object to the death penalty for murder (providing they get the right person). It's been in effect since Noah landed on the mountains of Ararat (see Genesis 9); and as an American taxpayer, I resent having to support the likes of Charlie Manson and others into ripe old age when they are assured of three square meals and I am not.
Yojimbo, sadly the proaganda over here is ridiculous. Not against America so much as in favour of islam. Our TV, radio and newspapers report constantly on how peaceful islam is, how terribly misunderstood they are. If a muslim is beaten up the papers go mad, but if in the same week a child is kidnapped, stabbed and set alight by a group of muslims because the boy was not muslim we have very little coverage (Google Kris Donald). And this is just one example.
We have the "Begum" case where a school girl is apparently fighting for her right to wear a hajib in school. Our prime ministers wife even gets involved to support this girl. It turns out she was a front for hizb-ut-tarhir, a group intent on imposing sharia law on MY country.
At every turn we are bombarded with muslims attempting to increase their power and impose sharia upon us by using our PC laws against us.
My country is a "multicultural" hell hole.
Most people in my country think multiculturalism is "getting on with different people", they don't understand that it means "people living in your country as if they were in their home country, never even attempting to integrate but rather attempting to change the country to their ends, at your expense". I live near people who have lived in the country 15 years and speak virtually no English.
Our government now imports its voters, so that as unrest grows among the indiginous population the government is assured enough votes to stay in power.
I will find some pictures I have of my town 10 years ago and what it looks like now. I will post them on this site and you can see for yourself what my town has become, Londonistan; a town where since the 7/7 tube bombings the muslim community, far from condeming the attacks, takes it as a sign that they have "taught us a lesson". This from people who were born here mind you.
So you see, we get it from all sides, logic doesn't stand a chance here anymore. If a muslim marches through London proclaiming the attacks on both 9/11 and 7/7 were wonderful nothing is done. We are told that the people in question have not been made welcome in the country and that WE should do MORE for them to help them integrate. However, if a Danish cartoonist draws a picture of a man with a bomb for a turban our HOME SECRETARY, Jack "I'm made of" Straw gets up and APOLOGISES to the muslim community. Can you imagine that? Didn't even happen in this country but he APOLOGISES.
People I speak to now have had enough, we have got to a point where we are fed up apologising for creating a culture that people travel through 6 safe countries to claim asylum in. Where people escape islamic countries to come to the freedom of this one, only to try and turn it into the islamic country they fled form in the first place.
So, the Beeb thinks that a Sharia court is a vast improvement over justice as meted out by "war lords". Just what do they think inspires the war lords' concept of justice? American jurisprudence? British common law? Or the law of the desert that states that a more powerful army = Allah's favourite?
Keep in mind, we don't know the circumstances of the crime for which he was sentenced to death. Maybe he killed that man for trying to rape his daughter. So the son of the rapist avenges his raping father's death. That would be par for the course for islam.
The end of islam. Now.
Melanie-
So your perspective is that the length of time Tookie was on death row was cruel. That can easily be solved by allowing the perpetrator to waive all appeals and request the death penalty be carried out asap. It's been done by other death penalty candidates in the past, and is an option available in the US.
However, Tookie CHOSE not to follow that route. He used every appeal left to him in order to stay alive long past his sell by date. If you ever personally murder four people in the US, just request a quick execution and I am sure that our justice system will be happy to oblige.
BTW the executee is first put to sleep prior to the final injection. The other man was quite aware of what was going on during the throat cutting process. I recommend watching the Nick Berg beheading video if you have any romantic thoughts about it being a quick or easy death. It still gives me nightmares, and I just listened to the audio portion.
Melanie-
So your perspective is that the length of time Tookie was on death row was cruel. That can easily be solved by allowing the perpetrator to waive all appeals and request the death penalty be carried out asap. It's been done by other death penalty candidates in the past, and is an option available in the US.
However, Tookie CHOSE not to follow that route. He used every appeal left to him in order to stay alive long past his sell by date. If you ever personally murder four people in the US, just request a quick execution and I am sure that our justice system will be happy to oblige.
BTW the executee is first put to sleep prior to the final injection. The other man was quite aware of what was going on during the throat cutting process. I recommend watching the Nick Berg beheading video if you have any romantic thoughts about it being a quick or easy death. It still gives me nightmares, and I just listened to the audio portion.
Woops, sorry about the double post. My fingers have excess caffeine jitters this morning.
thethinker said
I was thinking that too. The article does say
Perhaps the "murderer" was the boy's teacher, and the father was enraged that his son was learning something other than verses from the Qur'an. Perhaps the "murderer" was even one of those so-called "moderate" Muslims that we keep hearing about, trying to educate the boy about science or history or the existence of a world outside Islam. It would be interesting to know the full story, but on the other hand, who really cares? As long as they are killing each other and not us. Just keep them away from us, that should be good enough.
Cheers, Dave - would like to see them. I'm English, too. And in fact, I think any old pictures of England are to be cherished.
I'd include ones of the countryside before Prescott concretes the whole damn place over. Fortunately, the government (pack of *&%$£s) has had a setback on that - they've been told not to build on the last, irreplaceable, bit of Surrey Heath, which is one of the few parts of Thomas Hardy's Wessex that's left:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/03/nbugs203.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/03/ixhome.html
Perhaps Robert was being sensitive in not posting the original story, but this link includes photos of the execution. Hardly a criminal proceeding, but an sanctified act of revenge.
http://shabellenews.com/news/ne880.htm
longtime lurker,
That version of the story (from a Somalian news source) gives the age of the son as 38 years old, not 16. Then what is the bit about "after a row over [the son's] education"? Mohamed (the son) doesn't exactly look like a student, he looks like he might have graduated a couple of decades ago. Neither story tells what really happened, which is mildly interesting in itself. That would be irrelevant in their an-eye-for-an-eye point of view.
Looks like I was right about the relatives wanting to kill the 16 year old,or at least that's what he's thinking.
I just saw the pics of it on LGF and the young man who stabbs the man to death has his face covered.
Why is that?
Bad acne?
Maybe he's just shy?
Or is he just another islamic coward who is willing to act only if he's not held responsible?
JLP
DaveMate
You might care to have a look at a London blogger
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
Westerners are on verrry thin ice in condemning this aspect of Islamic practice (as opposed, say, to the charming Islamic habit of punishing rape victims). Incidentally, I feel obliged to put in that last allusion because it is clear from some of the preceding comments in this thread that there are a lot of people here who regard anti-Islamic hatred, as opposed to the desire for rational discussion, as the basic qualification for participating here. Some of the comments directed against Melanie from Germany are quite offensive.
Two hundred years or so ago, England inflicted "barbarous" punishments even for minor offences. (In some cases this might involve disembowelling the criminal while he was still alive.) Since then the pendulum has swung to the extent that an English thug can now kick in the head of some stranger he finds irritating, thereby causing permanent brain damage, and receive less than a year in jail -- which he is likely to regard more as a badge of honour than as punishment. The penalty just meted out in Somalia strikes me as more just than either of these two shining examples of Western legal practice. And if we don't get our justice system sorted out, Sharia, or at any rate some aspects of Sharia, may well come to seem attractive to many Westerners.
State justice grew up in the West as a replacement for private vengeance. The State would carry out vengeance in lieu of the victim. This was necessary in order to prevent interminable blood feuds. Justice and vengeance are not fundamentally different things: vengeance is a primitive form of justice. When we forget this, as in the modern West, we are likely to fall into such deviations as the failure to punish crime.
In both the Jewish and Christian traditions, justice is supposed to be tempered by mercy. But I do not understand how the state can legitimately exercise mercy on behalf of the victim of crime. The impersonal state has no love for the victim, so "mercy" or forgiveness shown to the offender costs the state absolutely nothing. How, then, is it mercy, rather than mere failure to stand up for the rights of the victim. As far as I can see, mercy should be exercised by the victim (or maybe his family), which also requires that the victim be able to decide that the offender be punished, if not actually to carry out the punishment himself. I think this principle figures in the Islamic conception of justice, though doubtless it is not consistently applied.
I've heard there is also a strand in Islamic thought which holds that it is an evil to carry out violence against an enemy while there is hatred in one's heart, whereas dispassionate violence may be quite acceptable. By this standard, the Somali execution was barbaric (unless they took care to make sure the son was free of hatred while carrying out the punishment, which seems highly unlikely). But by the same token, the American practice of encouraging soldiers to hate the enemy they are fighting, in order to increase their military effectiveness, would also be barbaric. (The British, by contrast, encourage their soldiers to fight dispassionately. Or so I've heard.) Watch out for that thin ice!
P.S.: Once the state has decided to take the life of an offender, shouldn't the maximum deterrent value be extracted out of that execution by making it unpleasant and public. I don't understand how one can support capital punishment while also insisting that it be as "humane" as possible. Is this really anything more than reassurance for the liberal guilt complex.
snowpea said
I find the karmic quality of JW intriguing, how posters can reincarnate over and over and over. But in a true karmic system, the being should learn from each life, becoming wiser each time until nirvana is reached. In JW, they just come back spouting the same blather ad nauseum. Ho hum.
... it is clear from some of the preceding comments in this thread that there are a lot of people here who regard anti-Islamic hatred...as the basic qualification for participating here. Some of the comments directed against Melanie from Germany are quite offensive. ... The penalty just meted out in Somalia strikes me as more just than either of these two shining examples of Western legal practice.
You know, whoever you are, that when herr Karl Marx and Fredereich Engels went ahead and decided to draud those economic statistics way back in 1865, they thereby instituted the art and science of victimism.
To favorably compare the animalistic "legal" practice of Sharia to anything going Anglo-Saxon or Contentintal jurisprudence is, well, to shat your pants.
May I introduce you to Tim Russert and Allen Dershowitz or Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
Elsewise, explicate your dung herewith, oh mistaken correction one.
short diagnosis on melaniefromgermany:
this contributor to the blog has already stated in simultaniously running blogs that she is a schoolgirl from Germany who personally has her problems with muslim youths at her school, and that she would love to shoot their dicks off as recommended by a fellow blogger. Being from and in these circumstances means Melanie is legally under age, probably the age around 15-17 years old. That also means this person has not had overly many 1st-hand experiences to build a political conscience on her own. She likes to take part here because she can practice her rather good english. Politically she can not produce much more than the opinion she has been indoctrinated with at her education institutions by the many years prevailing cast of leftist german teachers. Now being treated rather roughly on this blog by the americans who have no time for all this bollocks she will see the predictions by her educators that americans are not "cool" confirmed. And if these dudes are not cool then you can´t really trust their informations, it might all be propaganda against the muslims.
On the one hand we would have to "re-educate" people like Melanie, on the other hand (I stated it before ) helping the europeans is a lot of good ordnance down the drain..
Well said, Cosmo.
MO HIJABS MO TURKIC GUT FLABS MO BACK STABS MO KIDNAPEE NABS MO MO
... helping the europeans is a lot of good ordnance down the drain...
And don't forget all that hard-earned US taxpayer cash and concessionary trade arrangements over the last half-century.
First, they invent Marxism.
Then, they start a war and we swoop in to save them from themselves. They start another war and we swoop in yet again to save them from themselves.
Next, the Marxism thing comes back to bite them in the ass and they lose half their continent to tyranny, and this time we don't swoop in, we subdue the tyrannical Marxists into submission with the collective force of our capitalism and individualism.
And what thanks do we get?
They hate our guts and sniff at our stupidity as they stand in line as they inch their way up to the Sharia Registration Desk.
White folk, ya gotta wonder somtimes. And I say this from behind my piercing blue eyes.