Islamic da'wa, or proselytization, proceeds apace in the United States. The Islamic Center of Milwaukee is having an open house, and the Journal Sentinel (thanks to Mackie) chips in with a helpful editorial, "Violence is not a religion," explaining why no one should connect global violence perpetrated in the name of Islam with Islam:
The last time an Osama bin Laden tape showed up for our viewing displeasure, the terrorist spoke of a "crusade against Islam." Unfortunately, U.S. polls are showing that Americans misunderstand Islam on such a scale that this bogus claim is allowed more fertile ground to sprout than should be available.That's why Milwaukeeans should avail themselves of a special opportunity Saturday. They should visit the Islamic Center of Milwaukee for an open house that will include a tour, question-and-answer sessions and information about a religion that shares some of the same roots as Judaism and Christianity.
Journal Sentinel reporter Tom Heinen wrote on Monday of the invitation to the public from the Islamic Center. The article also contained some disquieting revelations.
A Washington Post-ABC News poll in early March showed negative views of Islam have grown and that many Americans believe that Islam encourages violence against non-Muslims. An independent poll by the Council on American-Islamic Relations last month had one in four Americans believing that Islam is a religion of hatred and violence, Heinen wrote.
I have written many times about this here and elsewhere. In brief, once again, Americans didn't pluck that notion out of thin air, or evolve it from their natural bigotry, racism, and intolerance. There are so many Muslims who act daily upon the proposition that Islam encourages violence against non-Muslims, it's hard to escape the idea that maybe they're not as completely discredited by the texts of Islam as many would have us believe.
This is especially true since an actual look at tghe Qur'an shows that it does teach warfare against Jews and Christians (9:29) and contains numerous exhortations to violence: 2:190-193, 8:12, 9:111, 47:4, and many, many others.
Such slanted U.S. views on Islam inform not only Muslim perceptions of this country but also provide cover to U.S. policy decisions not necessarily in the country's interest. The view that the jihadists who perpetrated the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were concretely and operationally tied to Iraq's Saddam Hussein, for instance. We suspect that this falsehood would not have been so believable had perceptions about Islam been on firmer and more accurate ground and there wasn't such a temptation to lump all Arabs and Muslims into one pile.
The Journal Sentinel should check into recent revelations that suggest that maybe it is those who assumed that there was no such link who were acting upon their prejudices.
Many of those blowing up themselves and others in Iraq and elsewhere are indeed citing their faith and the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed for this lunacy. And it's important to understand what these people believe their faith says that compels such action. A visit to the open house could help.
It could indeed, if the people in the Islamic Center were willing to discuss the jihad verses I cited above and many others, and explain how exactly the mujahedin are misusing them. But since I think it likely that the Islamic Center knows very well that all the madhahib, the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, teach that Muslims must wage war against unbelievers in order to establish the Islamic social order, I doubt they will discuss these verses in any comprehensive or helpful way.
Othman Atta, a Milwaukee attorney and president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, explains it this way: "There are people who are going to act in the name of their faith, and they will claim that the actions are based on their faith, but if people have a (true) frame of reference about that faith, they could judge whether those actions are truly based on it."For instance, he said, some said they based their support for apartheid in South Africa or for the Ku Klux Klan in the United States on their Christian beliefs. But a fuller understanding of Christianity instantly dispels the claim.
How, Atta asks, would Christians like to be judged, for instance, on the actions of the Rev. Fred Phelps of Kansas and his followers, who make pests of themselves at military funerals to say that the Iraq war dead deserve what they got because of U.S. tolerance of gays?
Othman Atta should provide evidence of what mainstream Christian church, sect or denomination has ever held to the views of the KKK or Fred Phelps. Then he should provide evidence of any mainstream Islamic sect that does not teach that jihad and the subjugation of unbelievers as part of Islam.
Let us suggest that misperceptions abound precisely because so does much ignorance. The only real antidote is education, and that's what the Islamic Center is offering.
Some might call it education. I don't.
Meanwhile, it's Discover Islam Week at Towson University (thanks to Mullah), and the da'wa has a decidely new agey tinge: participants can attend presentations (tonight!) on "Spirituality and Energy Healing, Prophetic Medicines, and Quranic Foundations to Holistic Healing." Wednesday there were "Henna Tattoos by Henna Artist Naima Shoukat."
But I'm most sorry that I missed Monday night's presentation, "Islam, Religion, and Modernization."
A dinner and presentation on the alteration of scriptures over time by humans, the relationship between culture and religion, how Islam fits the cultures and times until the end of time (not vice versa), and why God, in his infinite wisdom and knowledge, needs no human to correct him.
In this, the MSA at Towson U seems much more forthright than the Islamic Center of Milwaukee. God needs no human to correct him: i.e., Islam cannot and should not be reformed. In other words, Islamic law, Sharia, is perfect and immutable. I doubt that anyone was on hand Monday night to unpack the implications of that idea for women and religious minorities -- more's the pity.
People may not remember Shakespeare said it, but they know the idea when they keep hearing this "our religion is not violent" mantra foisted on them:
"Methinks he doth protest too much!"
Girl - "That's so cool! Muslims are so cool and their religion is so elloquent"
Constantinople - the next time something like that happens, hand out a copy of Cardinal Pell's article.
But I suppose cardinals aren't cool. Still, it's worth a try.
It is important Jihad Watch readers attend any and all of your local da'wa meetings. Go be the pest. Go spoil the party. Go ask questions and demand answers (you'll have to if you ask questions). Take pamphlets like these. You don’t have to speak at all. Listen and learn.
The easiest to combat Islamic taqiyya-propaganda is to use Kuranic scriptures that PROVE Islam employs what the western democracies have deemed to be the crime known as first degree murder. Yes, the Kuran can and should be used to combat Islam and illustrate how it advocates the use of violence and thereby drastically devalues human life and as such is 100% unworthy of any place in any civilized land.
The best known Kuranic writing that can be used effectively is the oft-quoted "and when the sacred months have passed slaughter the infidels everywhere are found...." But there are plenty of others.
Pick your own violent scriptures in the Kuran. And use them to combat Islam.
After we have established that Islamic ideology is homicidal (which is child's play) we can go down the list and cite Islam's jihad wars over the centuries starting with Muhammed and his massacres of Jews in the Arabian Peninsuls and we can include the massacre of over 50 million Christians during the twentieth century.
Then we can rest our case.
"Henna Tattoos by Henna Artist Naima Shoukat."--from the dawa fair.
Tattoos? Those are forbidden, at least for women, according to several ahadith in the Sahih Bukhari collection at least.
Constantinople:
I'm not sure about the Yusuf Ali translation. Apparently a whole book has been written on the errors in that translation. Spencer recommends Dawood, and on-line a good one is Hilali-Khan ( at www.quranbrowser.com )
WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THESE MONSTERS KILL???
SHAME ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE WHERE WERE THEy ON THE 300,000 GRAVES OF saddam[yellow coward found in a hole don't shoot i'm a coward]THESE PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK BUNCH OF LIB'S!!!
WAKE UP PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN!!!
The truth about what Mulsums believe??
Read and learn about the peace they bring to your door??
Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad
Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”
THE BLOOD MONEY IS TO CRY NOW ABOUT THE SUICIDE BOMBERS WELL THEY ARE THE MONSTERS DO NOT CRY FOR THE KILLER CRY FOR THE VICTIM DID WE CRY FOR HITLER??
TORTURE:
Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”
READ IT AND WEEP FOR THOSE WHO THESE MONSTERS HAVE KILLED BY THEIR BOOK PEAR,BERG,JOHNSTON,HENSLEY,BISLEY,HEAGAN,AND THE LIST GOES ON MANY IRAQIS MEN FROM NEPAL FROM THE PHILLIPENS AND JAPAN AND HOW MANY IN OUR LANDS??
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
AGAIN THIS IS WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN AROUND THE WORLD!!
Bukhari:V4B52N260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”’
YES THEY WILL NOT LET THEM BE FREE??
Qur’an 48:27 “If the Muslims had not been there, We would have punished the unbelievers with a grievous torture.”
Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
THIS MEANS WE CAN GIVE NO QUATER??
Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”
EXPLAINS ITS SELF
Tabari IX:6 “The chief sheep tender sent out spies to obtain intelligence. But they came back with their joints dislocated. When he asked what had happened, they said, ‘We saw white men on black horses. Before we could resist, we were struck as you see us now.”
THIS IS CAIR AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS THAT HAS BEEN SWADED BY THE MONEY OF TERRORIST??
Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
SO TO THEM THE BOMBERS ARE DOING THIS
THIEVERY & SLAVERY:
Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”
Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
SO THEIR BOOK SAYS ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO SLAUTER THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR LAND
Tabari VII:64/Ishaq:307 “The Messenger of Allah gave orders concerning the contents of the camp which the people had collected, and it was all brought together. Among the Muslims, however, there was a difference of opinion concerning it. Those who had collected it said, ‘It is ours. Muhammad promised every man that he could keep the booty he took.’ Those who were fighting said, ‘If it had not been for us, you would not have taken it. We distracted the enemy from you so that you could take what you took.’ Those who were guarding the Prophet for fear the enemy would attack him said, ‘By Allah, you have no better right to it than we have. We wanted to kill the enemy when Allah gave us the opportunity and made them turn their backs, and we wanted to take property when there was no one to protect it; but we were afraid that the Meccans might attack the Prophet. We protected him so you have no better right to it than we have.’ When we quarreled about the booty we became very bad tempered. So Allah removed it from us and handed it over to His Messenger.”
SO HE WAS JUST GREEDY
Ishaq:307 “The ‘Spoils of War’ Surah came down from Allah to His Prophet concerning the distribution of the booty when the Muslims showed their evil nature. Allah took it out of their hands and gave it to the Apostle.”
SO MO-HAM-OD THOUGHT MULSUMS NOT AS TRUE FOLLOWERS??
Bukhari:V5B59N541 “When we conquered, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens.”
Tabari VIII:12 “When cities were conquered Muslims used to say, ‘Conquer for yourselves whatever seems good to you because all treasures were given to Muhammad.’”
Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.”
THIS IS WHY THEY GO TO FIGHT THE IRAQI PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WANT THER LANDS!!
PEACE, ISLAM STYLE:
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.’”
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”
WHO DO YOU TRUST??
Tabari VII:86 “Gabriel brought down the following verse to the Messenger: ‘If you apprehend treachery from any people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations).’ When Gabriel had finished delivering this verse, the Prophet said, ‘I fear the Banu Qaynuqa.’ It was on the basis of this verse that Muhammad advanced upon them.”
THE ARAB LEAGE,ubl,THE ZQUARI,AND ALL WHO TEACH THIS HATE AROUND THE WORLD
Tabari VII:158 “Judayy went to Abd Allah Ibn Ubayy to ask for support. He said, ‘I found him sitting among a number of his companions while the Prophet’s crier was calling men to arms. He said, ‘This is a clever trick of Muhammad’s.’ The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not kill them and that their property and their coats of mail would be his.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir for fifteen days until he had reduced them to a state of utter exhaustion, so that they would give him what he wanted. The terms in which the Prophet made peace with the Jews were: he would not shed their blood, he would expel them from their lands and settlements, providing for every three of them a camel and a water-skin.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Prophet fought them until he made peace with them on condition that they evacuated Yathrib. He expelled them to Syria but allowed them to keep what their camels could carry, except for their coats of mail and weapons.”
THIS COULD BE HOPE BUT??
Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
THIS IS WHAT THE MONSTERS ARE TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN
Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”
WHO ARE THE PAGANS??
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
WHEN THEY SEE OTHERS JOIN AGAINST THEM LIE LOW ? THIS TIME THE FIGHT WILL BE FINISHED!!
Qur’an 9:7 “How can there be a covenant between Allah and His Messenger and the disbelievers with whom you made a treaty near the sacred Mosque?”
Qur’an 9:8 “How (can there be such a treaty), seeing that they get an advantage, the upper hand over you? They do not pay you respect, or honor you or the ties of kinship or covenant. With (good words from) their mouths they entice you [out negotiate you], but their hearts are averse to you.”
AGAIN WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN!
Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”
AGAIN WHO ARE THE DISBELIEVERS??
Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.’”
YES THEY ARE SPREADIND IN THE WORLD CIAR, HUMAN RIGHTS?
NOW WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL MULSUM TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
Still waiting for mulsums to denie this is what they really believe??
Constantinople,
That one is available in Penguin, so it should be easy to find.
For whatever reason, Robert doesn't link directly to any translations of the Koran from his books page (and, strangely, doesn't show Oriana Fallaci's latest there under "Books by Other Recommended Authors") but his note on the different translations is on this page.
We need to go to these Muslim proselytization meetings prepared with questions -- and also with follow up questions to ask in response to the answers that in most cases will predictably be given. (And I also like Rebecca's suggestion just to go and listen and learn if we don't want to say anything.)
One way of being persuasive in such settings might be to do what Naseem did to Mohideen or whatever his name was. In other words, use a stealth Socratic approach overlaid with a pose -- or even the reality -- of earnest spiritual desire to 'understand' Islam. Act as though you sincerely want help to understand such and such question about a troubling Koran verse or hadith. Then be ready for the range of inadequate answers that will come, and again strike the yearning seeker pose and explain how the responses you have just received still leave you unsure because of x or y or z. If you are well-prepared, and follow Naseem's stealth mode underneath apparently earnest spiritual desire to know or come closer to Islam, you will lead your interlocutor to drop his guard as Mohideen did and to actually sympathize with and consider the questions you raise, until he finds, too late, that he has been led down the garden path by someone who is very difficult to convert and whose questions even threaten to make the Muslim apostasize instead. You will have immersed your interlocutor in the disturbing, embarrassing and unanswerable quagmire of contradictions or problems you have so 'innocently' raised. Of course, one could take a Socratic approach with complete sincerity too. But if one uses counter-taqueyya in the manner I have suggested, morally it seems a fairly miniscule bit of mischief as a countermeasure, provided one is only trying to bring out the truth about Islam and given the fact that one is defending against enormities: the Koran does advocate violence against, and subjugation of, non-Muslims, (Koran Chapter 9 and elsewhere) Islam does allow for deception against non-Muslims (perhaps Archimedes will cite Chapter and verse for me on that, as I don't have the cites handy), and Islam does advocate domination and subjection of non-Muslims everywhere (for example Koran Chapter 8, Verse 39).
Constantinople:
Of course you know about the online triple translation of the Koran (includes Yusuf Ali):
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Archimedes:
did you ever get any further with confirming the inverse correlation between Muslim population percentage and civil liberties/political rights?
-Omar
Can there be any doubt that the Mainstream Press is one of the most dangerous problems we have in America today?
Loose lips with little brains. I avoid them like a disease. A shame that the majority of the nation has not yet learned what commercially-driven manipulators of the facts 90% of them have become.
All you need to know about islam...
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?real_islam
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/mystery/showpics.cgi?nazi_jihad
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/side_orders/showpics.cgi?lesson_learned
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/fresh/showpics.cgi?islamist_hypocrisy
From Catherine's post:
Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
That is all you need to know! They see the civilized world "crying for peace" and see only weakness.
Constantinople - "Girl - "Have you read any of the Qur'an?"
Me - "Yes"
Girl - "That's so cool! Muslims are so cool and their religion is so eloquent"
Perhaps I missed any previous explanation, but can somebody please tell me why the Islamo-hugging left does not grasp the implications of their spider/fly relationship with Mohammedanism? I have only entry level understanding of Islam, but even impaired as I am, I can see that Sharia and American liberalism cannot possibly co-mingle. Why then do liberals endorse their own demise. Waiting anxiously for a lucid answer...
Dear Thumper,
That's an easy one. It's just sheer ignorance of islam coupled with no desire to learn anything new at all. The lack of ability to learn new things rather than take the easy PC way out is one of the primary characteristics of a certain type of liberal.
Dominic.
Constantinople-
The Youth Bulge strikes again. The mere existence of mass numbers of young Muslims makes Islam "cool" and attractive to other young people who don't have the facts. In that respect it's like cigarettes or drugs. If you ever have a similar encounter in a bookstore again, that would be a perfect opportunity to say, "Yeah, you are so right. Let me show you one of my favorite quotes." Then pick out a copy of the Quran from the shelf, flip to 9:29-30 or 4:34 or some other ugly passage and read it aloud. Then say, with just a hint of irony, "Wow, wasn't that eloquent?" It might have torn the layer of delusion and ignorance protecting that girl from the truth.
"...a religion that shares some of the same roots as Judaism and Christianity...."
Except that the Islamic branch is diseased.
Other than informally hoisting them on their own petards, or continuously presenting irrefutable evidence and watching them weasel out of it in front of ignorant and/or complicit public opinion, the way to go is to get their clerics for crimes civil or criminal, put them on the stand and cross-examine the heck out of them by bringing in Qur'anic and other text evidence and then see them try to wiggle out of that one. Trials should preferably be as high profile as possible and publicity picked up by any
media source.
objective or friendly media source.
Thumper--
I'm a liberal (in both the 19th century and New Deal senses) and I agree with Dominic that ignorance of Islam, Islamic law and Islamic history is a large part of the problem. Even then, it isn't until you become aware of the horrifying implications of Islam's demographic explosion vs. the West's implosion (which I first learned about from reading Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" in 2002) that you understand what a terrible threat Islam is. It won't matter how good our culture or our technology are if they breed us into oblivion. Without that knowledge, liberals are prey to smooth-talking Islamists or their apologists using nice words like "tolerance" and "diversity". But there are other reasons. Those who know American history know that we panicked over the Irish Catholics in the 1850s, the Chinese in the 1870s, the Poles, Italians and Jews in the 1900s, the Japanese in the 1910s, German-Americans in WWI and Japanese-Americans in WWII, and we (whites) exploited black Americans over the past four centuries and robbed the American Indians of almost everything. Add to that European imperialism of the 19th century and today's Iraq war. To those people, if they don't know about the details of Islam, bad-mouthing it sounds like more of the same racism and xenophobia. Islamists understand that point of view, so that is why they scream "racism" when somebody attacks Islam. And maybe there really are Islamophobes who are also racists. Then there's our two-party culture; if Republicans are for it, Democrats should be against it and vice versa. So if the Right is picking on Islam, the Left must defend it. If you want the Left to attack Islam, you'll have to get the Right to promote it. Bush and his henchmen have made things worse by exploiting 9/11 for goals liberals hate, like tax cuts for the rich. I can be against the Iraq War and torture and domestic spying as well as Islam but most liberals are only worried about saving the Constitution from a dictatorial presidency, not about a distant and speculative (as would seem to them) fall of the West to Islam. All the current emphasis on terrorism is useful as propaganda against Islam, but it also distracts from the greater problem of Islam's growing political power in the world and within the West. Most people, including Muslims, are against blowing up schoolchildren, but Americans aren't seeing the threat of permitting Islamic gender segregation in public places, accommodating prayer times, Islamic banking, Muslim control of local government or Islamic courts. They probably won't see it until one of the two major parties begins establishing "local option" sharia or there is an explicitly Islamic third party.
Spirituality and Energy Healing, Prophetic Medicines, and Quranic Foundations to Holistic Healing." Wednesday there were "Henna Tattoos by Henna Artist Naima Shoukat." - from the article above
They are so creepy. They know exactly what buttons to push to attract rebellious, cool youth.
Thumper -
Besides what others have answered, I would add that some people have a weak or non-existent psychological immune system or alarm system when their freedoms are threatened. It's as if they never became fully conscious of their freedoms, nor have ever experienced losing them, so these people are blissfully unconscious of what's at stake when real risk looms. - Omar
Thumper,
The answers you've received so far to your question fail to address the most important reason why liberals are not only not fighting Sharia and not condemning Islam, but are even supporting Sharia & Islam: Muslims represent (certainly in the eyes of liberals) a cool "ethnic" Third World non-Western culture. And according to the PC mantra by which liberals live and breathe, all cool "ethnic" Third World non-Western cultures are beyond criticism and can do no wrong, and to even hint that they may do wrong is to instantly incur the charge of "racism" and "Islamophobia".
Rebecca
Why do you advocate folks attend Dawa meetings? Depending on what one comes across, one could run into some very hostile fanatics. Unless a whole group of infidels attend, one could find oneself on the receiving end of some ugly behavior.
Constantinople
For the Quran, I found Ali Sina's referral to the Skeptics Guide the most "user-friendly", and would start with that. It's easier to fish out the verses that are most interesting, not to mention that they are classified by categories like Intolerance, Cruelty & Violence, Absurdities, et al.
I don't know that I'd go with an Islamic center - a beginner wouldn't know what is taqqiya and what isn't. Instead, start with these, as well as PIG and Defeating Jihad, cross referencing their Quranic quotations with the site above. Then, once it's absorbed, then move into other things, like the ahadith.
I'm currently reading the book edited by Robert, but including several authors, like Warraq, Bat Ye'or, Samuel Shahid et al - "The myth of Islamic tolerance." It's good reading, although imho somewhat incomplete in that it doesn't cover the Jihad and Dhimmitude in the sub-continent and the East Indies. But maybe that's just my overly critical self.
Until you've digested it all, steer clear of the Islamic Centers. As for the suggestion above to do what Naseem did with Mohideen, note that she was just anxious to be endorsed as a Muslimah. Instead, being in a group that asks tough questions is a better approach, but given the Islamic tactics of taqqiya and tu quoque, I'm not sure that effort is even worth it.
Anyway, good luck with it.
Thanks for the answers all. Yet I still have a lingering suspicion that something far more ominous is active in the liberal psyche.
I mean, we're not talking about the American Idol can't-even-name-the-vice-president crowd. Many of the hard left Islam marinated pundits are tenured professors at Columbia, Duke, De Paul... you name it. Presumably their students (especially at grad level) have achieved at least a perfunctory level of critical thinking and big picture dot connecting that would trigger their "alarm system" as Omar puts it. Yet they continue to schmooze with Islam knowing the contradictions it poses to their own liberal morality.
Could it be they are actually flirting with or contemplating conversion? After all, what better place to fulfill their hatred for Christians, Jews and Republicans, and garner support from a billion plus for the coup of the century? Just an amateurish thought...
no one should connect global violence perpetrated in the name of Islam with Islam
++++++++++++++
And drink should never be realted with getting drunk.
Will the stupidity stop once the war starts??
Thumper,
I think with regard to the problem of Islam that we face, liberals can be divided into five camps:
1) In complete, naive denial: those who are ignorant of the anti-liberal and dangerous nature of Islam and consider Islam to be benign. This group remains ignorant mainly for the reason of ideological prejudice -- in their eyes, Muslims are people of a cool "ethnic" Third World non-Western culture and hence, "I'm not going to investigate these anti-liberal and dangerous features of Islam that you are claiming exist -- those features can't be there; you must be a racist, neo-Colonialist Islamophobe." Or, under better circumstances, after they listen to or take the trouble to read some criticisms of Islam, it becomes, "That can't be true; you are skewing the facts with your racist and Islamophobic interpretations. My corner grocer and his family are nice Muslims and decent people, ergo Islam must be benign. You haven't lived in a Muslim country, so how do you know? Do you read Arabic? Etc."
2) Slowly waking up: close but no cigar yet: those who are very slowly connecting a few dots, but are still very far from being able to dare to think that Islam itself might be the source of the problem that is manifesting itself in so many dangerous, intolerant, oppressive and ugly ways all over the globe. These -- if we are lucky -- will have graduated to the "it's the Wahhabis who are the problem" school (and even then, many of this group would spend all their time finding ways to blame the evil CIA, Mossad, and other assorted Western characters for facilitating or even creating this danger). These will tend to see the problem of Islam as partial and as recent in history (since, of course, Islam was a glorious civilization and model of tolerance and science in a "golden age" in the Middle Ages, before an evil intolerant Western Christendom began to become more globally powerful...).
3) Those who have woken up to the problem of Islam.
4) Contemplating conversion to Islam. Those who, as you posit, are reorienting themselves to make the leap and convert, because Islam in their minds represents a viable anti-Western system to replace the West they find so intolerably evil.
5) Ostensible non-liberals who have been infected by the naivete and denial of the #1 group above. Bush, Rice, Blair, and possibly Rumsfeld (as well as numerous conservative pundits, editors, writers, politicians, etc.) are in this camp.
I would estimate the population apportionment (among total liberals) of the first four groups as follows:
1) The majority: 84%.
2) A small minority: 10%.
3) An infinitessimal fraction: probably below the 1% level.
4) A very small minority: 5% (though this may increase over time in the future).
The population apportionment (among total ostensible non-liberals) of group #5 I would estimate as a majority -- possibly 70% or higher: a testament to how dominant the PC ideology has become in our society.
Omar,
My apologies. I haven't got to that yet. I may get to it; I may not. (I can't see being able to do it any time soon). I've been doing some work for another web-site http://www.islam-watch.org/ in what's left of my spare time. Here's an example:
http://www.islam-watch.org/Archemedez/RebutMuslimRape.htm
BTW, I like your quantitative approach to the Koran. May I also suggest use of the www.quranbrowser.com , which has ten translations and with which you can search key words. (You can also search transliterated Arabic terms there).
Also, a comment on the USC hadith databases: These are not complete. Some of the very offensive ahadith are ommitted, either systematically or unsystematically.
TV
Given recent opinion polls about Islam, at least in the US, I'd say that a majority would be in category 2, if not 3. In fact, I'd say some 70% falls in categories 2 & 3, a minority in category 1. Those who said they have a favorable impression of Islam would fall in categories 1, 4 & 5.
Archimedes
I was going to ask you sometime whether you are the same person as the "Archimedez" on that site. Thanks for satisfying my curiousity.
Does quranbrowser also have the hadith, siras & tafsirs? So far, I've not found a better interface than the annoted guide that faithfreedom recommends, but I do wish they had done a more thorough annotation, as well as cover the hadith and other literature.
Infidel Pride,
Quranbrowser doesn't have full tafsirs, but they do connect to the USC site, which has Maududi's overviews of longer passages to provide some overall context.
10 Qur’an translations
http://www.quranbrowser.com/
Tafsirs can be found at these sites
http://www.tafsir.com/
Ibn Kathir (1301-1373).
This is generally regarded as one of the best and most comprehensive tafsirs. But this on-line edition is incomplete and there are some key omissions. (e.g., Kathir's opinion that 4:89 calls for the execution of apostates (who openly declare apostasy) has been removed). Kathir's opinion that the "no compulsion" verse has been abrogated by verses such as 48:16 has also been removed. They also cut out the most likely reason for verses 66:1-4, where Mohammad gets caught with his maid, but that can be inferred from other tafsirs). I'm not sure why those particular materials have been removed, but I do know they left in there some pretty incriminating statements (e.g, 48:28 "The Good News that islam will conquer the known world, and ultimately the entire world"--and this is a verse of jihad, not dawa). Nevertheless, one must be constantly on the look-out for apologetics.
Other tafsir are available, and should also be consulted.
Al-Jalalayn and Ibn Abbas tafsirs here (scroll down at the opening page and you'll see the links for those two tafsirs, which are free access).
http://www.altafsir.com/TafseerQuran.asp
Hadith
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/
Also take a look at this:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/library.htm
You can find the Sira (a brief version of Ibn ishaq's / Hisham biography of the prophet) and a lot of other resources
Regarding that skeptic's annotated site, I agree; It's handy, but incomplete. Needs a lot of work. Especially, they need expert help. Some of the annotations are also questionable, but they have a discussion board where people can discuss the annotations there.
Hope this is helpful. I may post this again on a new thread.
Notice how these mousqe denounce terrorist acts but at the same time use those very same acts to say " ok now come down and learn about true Islam". The so-called moderates use terrorism as a recruiting tool.
One should look at the conservative conspiracy with Islam as the primary threat to the American population. Let us start with Ronald Reagan , pumped billions..yes billions of dollars to specifically support Islamic Jihad abeit against the Soviets but support Islamic Jihad none the less. Bush and Bush Boy have both given the Suadia Arabia pretty much all they have wanted including trade agreements worth trillions yes trillions of dollars. All undercutting our national interest. The present ( conservative ) President has pumped billions of dollars in direct aid the the Jihad nation of Pakistan , who is harboring Osama Bin Laden himself.
Selling out to Suadia Arabia and Pakistan is not now nor never has been on any liberal agenda. Those are conservative projects that transfers billions of dollars in direct aid and trillions of dollars in trade to the house of Islam. That money , undoubtedly coupled with the conservative agenda of " Faith Based Iniatives" that uses taxs payers dollars; to promote Islam in America. There is your threat.
The major media is letting the puplic down on reporting the barbarism of Islamic countries but remember this media are largely comprised of capitalist organisations ( that has obveiously been subverted on the issue by economic interest ) and hardly bastions of any socialist doctrine.
---Nossy