Women's Rights In Islam Alert: "Exercise a Challenge for Saudi Women," from AP, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Under their modest flowing robes, two-thirds of Saudi women are too fat. They can try dieting, but you won't find many in aerobics classes or power-walking along this city's walking trails. And very few of their daughters attend schools that have physical education classes.There are no laws against women exercising outside their homes, but in this conservative society many are influenced by scholars and clerics who argue against it.
In Riyadh, hotel gyms and pools are off limits to women. Along the city's walking trails, where the women walk covered in the mandatory black cloaks, they are sometimes harassed by the muttawa.
Rana al-Abdullah said one such official ordered her to go back to her car when she was out walking one day and wouldn't leave her alone until she did. She now walks in malls.
Many Saudis say they are baffled by the religious arguments.
At a clinic that treats obesity-related diseases, a booklet left by a writer named Muhammad al-Habdan, warned that if girls' schools began P.E., Saudi girls would have to change into workout gear _ and good girls should not disrobe outside their homes. Changing in a locker room might cause them to lose the shyness that is the hallmark of good morals, the booklet warned.
It went on to say that the girls might become attracted to each other after seeing their classmates in tight leotards and tops.
I always understood that Saudi Arabia had a flourishing Lesbian underground, the reasons for which were obvious and manifold.
Granny Weatherwax: is that true about the lesbians? And why not, I guess.Good point!
Irshad Manji comes to mind,,,
Maybe they have similar situations like us in the west ,don't want to admit to it 'cos it makes them look almost like "normal" people.
Every day we should thank Whoever we worship for not being born in an islamic country!
'Rana al-Abdullah said one such official ordered her to go back to her car ...' chauffeured or driving by her hubby?
The Deep-Seated Problems of Moslem Love
Nobody wants to see women jiggle
It makes both men & even women bug eyes out and involuntarily wiggle
And, when that happens, the Grand Mufti does not even giggle
But, behind closed doors, the Holy Man flushes and can't help but wriggle
Fear of desire is a fear of life. And like life, there's no stopping it. These guys need to grow up, to develop.
From the article: "Many Saudis say they are baffled by the religious arguments."
There's nothing baffling about it. Women are slaves. They will do whatever they are told. Simple, really.
When you think what Saudi men are like, it isn't surprising if Saudi women become lesbians.
Irshad Manji doesn't really fit the bill. She lives in Canada, where she could be pretty much anything she wanted, so you can assume that her lesbianism and her version of Islam are freely chosen.
9/11 wrenched the attention of the house of Saud away from living the life of luxury long enough for them to notice that their policy of leaving the country under the domination of clerics, seems to been producing a large number of violently psychopathic young men. Apparently one sign of the 82 year old King Abdullah's belief that some sort of change should take place (if only at a snail's pace) is the toleration of the circulation of the recent, racy (for Saudi) novel 'Girls of Ryadh' by Rajaa al-Sanie. A lot of it would appear to be about how the young contact members of the opposite sex, despite the religious police. Article on it at:
http://www.arabworldbooks.com/Readers/articles/driven_attraction.htm
You can keep gyms - they are nasty places full of fit, skinny people with i-Pods, but the idea of not being able to go for a swim, or a brisk walk is quite unimaginable.
Rich Saudi women are probably fat because what else is there to do but eat? Don't get me wrong, eating is one of life's greatest pleasures, but it's a social pleasure, to be enjoyed with the opposite sex and lively conversation. And wine, of course.
Shinoliite linked an interesting piece by the US Saudi Embassy, warning American women not to marry Saudi men, though not in so many words:
Ghastly.
I think the real reason they don't want girls to work out is because if they "get buffed-up" they would be able to defend themselves.
Imagine the shame of a Saudi man having to explain to the police that his wife (or wives) kicked the crap out of him.
Police: "Didn't you 'lightly strike' to admonish her?
Saudi man: "Yes, and then she broke my nose"
(Dont know what happened to my post"
Considering that we are only a few days away from the World Cup, my advice to everyone is "Stay away from the Gay Falcons"... Whoops, I meant Green Falcons.
PS: Green Falcons is what the Saudi football team call themselves.
According to some websites, even men exercising or playing sport is wrong unless it is training for jihad. I don't think Muslims go a bundle on the idea of recreation.
This from the country that a few years ago saw saudi police let schoolgirls die in a burning building rather than be rescued because they were not wearing veils and the sight of their face might have offended males.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm
Girls who tried to escape were beaten back by police as were onlookers who tried to rescue them.
If they believe women working out will turn them into lesbians, they probably believe women will get pregnant by swimming in a pool after men.
Those muslim males just can't stand for their women to have any enjoyment. The are really insecure. And I agree with Mr. Ape Pig on them bulking up and being able to defend themselves.
Ohhh, they just can't stand losing control!
Obesity isn't the only problem for those poor women. Without any sunshine and the Vitamin D it produces, they also suffer from brittle bones and ricktes
Go to www.google.com/trends. It allows you to enter search terms and shows you where they are popular. Try entering "man boy sex". See which country is #1. Then look at the rest of the list. Things that make you go hmmm...
Let them get and stay obese. Food's a great drug.
Could this fear of women seeing other women in a locker room making them lesbians be related to what already happens with Saudi men seeing other men?
Malta 1565,
I checked out google trends and along with cities and regions, it also had languages. Arabic and Persian were (proudly, as in this link: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/16.htm)
in the lead. Gross.
I think what the Saudis are really afraid of is all the little lassies getting together and seeing how many of them are sporting head to toe bruises and finally banding together to say "ENOUGH".
Sorry, try this without the parenthese on the end
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/16.htm
"Changing in a locker room might cause them to lose the shyness that is the hallmark of good morals, the booklet warned."
This helps them keep good morals....
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/19.htm
.... if a picture is worth a thousand words, this one leaves you speechless.
Using this logic, if you work out in sports bra and shorts, you are only oh, say 3% vagina, not enough vagina for breeding more little mo's.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why half the population in a sweltering cooker of an environment would volunteer to dress this way 24/7, so one can only come to the conclusion it is NOT voluntary. It seems like it's an easy-bake oven for your brain. Guess the ladies are easier to beat and control when 1/2 their brain shuts down from heat exhaustion.
"According to some websites, even men exercising or playing sport is wrong unless it is training for jihad. I don't think Muslims go a bundle on the idea of recreation."
-Interested
As for women, they ought not be aroused by anything - anything- including another woman. Men on the other hand, are entirely different. Arab men are very touchy feely. Those of us who are far fairer than they are ought not visit their men's only work out facilities unless one is looking for dates and serious attention (not that any of us plan to visit any of their countries anytime). Arabs have a think about light skin and light eyes, whether they are men or women.
Since we know so many Arabs are bisexual, and since we know what "secretly" goes on in their spas, steam rooms and baths, we may wonder how long it will be before work out activities are stopped for men too? But such a ban won't occur since it is one of the only places where married gay/bi Arab men meet for later secret encounters. Philipino and Indian foreign workers men are good at "servicing" the Arabs, and that, is not considered wrongful as it is demeaning the infidel. White men, on the other hand, are desired for other activities. I have been told this by many who have lived in Persian gulf nations.
I'm for sending tens of tons of Twinkies to Mecca.
Let the fat pile on.
If they're too stupid to do sit-ups or isometrics or get a treadmill then maybe if they get too tubby and slow the breeding levels will regress.
Twinkies to Mekka!
It went on to say that the girls might become attracted to each other after seeing their classmates in tight leotards and tops.
These guys are priceless. If you aren't bent that way, it's just not going to happen.
It always amazes me that they maintain these high birthrates when the women can hardly be healthy living under those conditions, plus with the high suicide rate.
wow...Saudi is a very extreme example of the Middle East. I am a western woman in Egypt and there are gyms (there is even a Gold's Gym here) and tons of gyms in the hotels....i have seen some muslim women walking along the nile in their veiled exercise outfits. Nike even has designed new hijabs for exercise and sport. I am surprised that there arent many gyms in Lebanon because from what I heard they are more liberal than Egypt. Anyway, women in Saudi are subjected to alot of confinement by Saudi men and its horrible. They have however made strides in that there are special universities for them and there are women who leave Saudi (small number) and study abroad and or have attained Ph.D's. They are not stupid but the society tries to ingrain that the only goal for their lives is childbearing, being a good wife and housekeeping. However, the increase in education has shown that they are becoming more aware of what they want and no matter how much the Saudi government tries to keep Western influence out...the 1990 women's protest of driving in Riyadh shows that they are coming to a point that they are more confident in organizing to get their rights. Unfortunately, the small group of western minded men and women arent enough to combat the conservative majority who want to keep women barefoot, in the kitchen and pregnant and men in the steering seat of the country.
Most muslim women have had their clitoris cut off under the Islamic religion. Muslim scriptures record that Muhammed witnessed females being genitally mutilated in the city of Mecca, and Muhammed replied, "Don't cut off too much". That approval of FGM by Muhammed became the basis for FGM in Islam over the last 1400 years. The last I saw, the UN claims that approx. 2/3 to 3/4 of all muslim women worldwide have had their clitoris cut off. So, I don't think the Muslim men fear their women will become lesbians since it difficult to be truly a lesbian without a clitoris. Muslim men simply fear that if their women exercise then their women will be able to kick their cowardly arses. If there are muslim women who are engaging in what appears to be lesbian relations, they are more than likely just clitoris-less women touching each other humanely, because most muslim women are not used to be touched as if they are anything more than an animal or piece of market meat bought for a dowry.
In response to the FGM, it is a horrible thing....and we see the UN and Amnesty Intl trying to interfer to reduce and eventually eradicate this horrible "cultural custom" and hence nothing to do with Islam. This is a custom that predates Islam and today in Egypt it is practices by both Muslims and Copts....in Ethiopia by Christians, Muslims and the minority Ethiopian Jewish community (Beta Israel),Kenya, and a lesser extent in Tanzania, Uganda. My point is that its a cultural practice that has not even remained restricted to the Muslim community but affects most women in the society irrelevant of religion. On average there are said to be 6,000 of the operations per day...its a sick practice that I dont condone and neither does Islam...the hadith that you are quoting is generally known to be a weak hadith (meaning the isnads (chains of transmitting the story to be written) are very weak and hence most official schools of Islamicthought do not acknowledge its legitimacy) used by extremists to support their claims over women.There is nothing in the Quran concerning this practice. just wanted to clarify that.
Marley, the fact is that there exists in muslim scriptures the approval for FGM. You don't need the sharpest needle, you only need a needle sharp enough with which to sew. To this, Islam's approval of FGM is the needle sharp enough to sew FGM into the fabric of Islamic society. Thus, your point about the "weak hadith" is a moot point.
FGM is practiced extensively amongst Muslim women in Malaysia and Indonesia, and there is no history of FGM in those areas prior to the arrival of Islam to those areas. FGM arrived in Indonesia and Malaysia with Islam, it means that FGM is legitimately sanctioned within Islam, and your "weak hadith" argument means nothing, it's a moot point. In fact, if you travelled to Malaysia and Indonesia, women there would laugh at you if you ever tried to assert that FGM is NOT a part of Islam. Women there regard FGM as an Islamic honor. So, keep dreaming your little dream world about your cotton candy version of Islam.
So porkchop...there is a difference between the Quran and the Hadiths....one is claimed as the word of God and one is a collection of STORIES of the Prophet....now i dont know if you failed to understand that a weak hadith means that the story has been passed along so many people that the event cannot be justified. If that is a moot point then you have no understanding of Islam.
FGM if you have ever read any notable scolar on the topic would tell you its a cultural custom and hence would be obvious that those bring Islam to countries such as South East Asia would also bring their cultural customs with them.
Moreover, yes I have been to Malaysia where I lived within a community of Malay women and irrespective of their religion, they also viewed FGM as a cultural practice. So I then encourage you to travel to those regions and speak with those women to maybe expand your view on the topic.
Moreover, I wouldnt call my view on Islam "a cotton candy dream" but just a realistic impression from having travelled extensively across the region and around the world. With this I managed to look at issues such as religion from a more broader perspective.
FYI, I've lived in Malaysia and Indonesia before, and every muslim woman I got to know and got to ask about FGM told me proudly that they had FGM done to them because of Islam -- THEY ARGUED THAT IN ISLAM MALES ARE CIRCUMCISED AND SO ARE FEMALES IN ISLAM. I never heard a single muslim woman claim they were circumcised for "cultural" reasons. By the way, what the heck is a "cultural" reason for FGM anyways? LOL When Islam first came to Indonesia, how do you tell the new women converts to Islam that they need to get their genitals mutilated because of "cultural" reasons? LOL Get real please.
Also, Islam does not take kindly to "cultural" arguments, so you're on thin ice with that to begin with. The Koran and Hadith are meant to govern all aspects of Islamic life, thus Islam in it's purest form and it's highest calling is to bring everything and everyone in society under submission. There is no such thing as distinguishing "cultural" from "religious" in Islam in its' purest form, all things must be done in submission to Allah and Islam. Therefore, if FGM be done in Islamic societies, it must first find approval in islamic scriptures -- which FGM is approved of in muslim scriptures. Therefore, FGM is in no way "cultural" but rather "religious" for muslim societies, and if one woman or ten thousands of women claim to have had FGM done to them for "cultural" reasons -- such does not negate the fact that FGM finds religious approval in islamic scriptures!!!! You simply refuse to acknowledge this fact.
It's almost like your brain is on "block" mode, for I told you several times that so long as the text is there approving FGM in muslim scriptures, there will always be muslims who act upon the text no matter what kind of "weak hadith" argument you concoct. Your brain processes remind me of those "name-it, claim-it" faith healers on tv, for they always have a cop-out in defense of their theology if it fails --- they simply claim you didn't get your healing because "you didn't have enough faith". Likewise, you always have a defense for the evil that is written right in the text of islamic scriptures -- you simply claim "it's a weak hadith" or "you don't understand arabic", blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get more brain stimulation from a bowel movement than I do trying to nail your Islamic jello to a wall.