Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the prospects for Islamic reform, and makes some recommendations:
A poster at this website recently summed up the sentiments of many Americans and Europeans when he wrote: "I believe an enlightened form of Islam is developing, not least among Muslim immigrants in the west. If we don't allow that to happen, we'll be stuck with an interpretation of Islam tarnished by the anger and envy of people in the Middle East whose lives suck. That's not to say that we should close our eyes to the radicals that are infiltrating our immigrant communities. But why not give the good guys a break?"One may "believe" an "enlightened form of Islam" is developing -- but on what basis has that belief been formed? Anecdotal evidence from a few Muslim acquaintances? Constant monitoring of the Muslim press and television? Scholarly works by Muslims re-interpreting Islam? Tutto fumo, niente arrosto. A lot of talk, a lot of waving about of the word "reform" but in the end, no conceivable or believable attempt to change the actual text of the Qur'an -- how could it, the immutable word of God, be changed?
There has been, as yet, no plausible explanation from any Muslim “reformers” as to how, at this point, they might be able to convince the Islamic world at large that more than a thousand years of the fixed interpretation of the Qur’anic text should somehow now be changed. There has been no attempt to have their novel views of the Qur’an and Islam accepted by a billion mostly very simple Believers. How could anyone today who knows anything about Islam and the umma believe those Muslims living in the West who are good at being given grants by the Carnegie Foundation and others for various "reforming Islam" projects, when they explain that that they are indeed working on "reform" but without ever explaining how they think the Muslim masses could ever accept a reworking of the Hadith, so that many of those classified as "authentic" by al-Bukhari and Muslim would now be demoted and classified as "inauthentic"? It can't be done.And how would Muhammad receive his moral makeover, so that Asma bint Marwan, the Khaybar Oasis, the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza prisoners, the kililng of Abu Afak, little Aisha, and so much else, would somehow disappear from his biography? Can't be done. One would like it to happen, and no doubt one's plausible, amiable Muslim friends will do their best to make one believe that it already has happened among the great majority of Muslims. But it hasn’t. And how, in any event, knowing what we now know about Islam, can we conceivably trust anyone who, also aware of what Islam teaches, nonetheless persists in attempting to inveigle us into believing that it is okay, that it can be changed, that we needn't worry about any except those "extremists"? It's nonsense.
What is at stake is too important to allow us the luxury of self-deception. To begin with, there are individual liberties as opposed to the collectivism of Islam, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, free and skeptical inquiry, artistic expression, the equal treatment of women and non-Muslims. All of these have always been threatened by, or completely trampled by, Islam. One has a right to make decisions about Islam based on this evidence, as opposed to basing them on the soothing words and assurances of some nice Muslim friends or colleagues.
It is entirely possible to have those "nice Muslim friends" and still insist that one cannot make policy on that handful, who have an obvious personal stake in Infidels not becoming alarmed about Islam. But no can do. If they are sincere, it is they who have to:
1) Stop lying about the content of Islam
2) Admit that the overwhelming number of Muslims do believe what Islam teaches
3) Acknowledge that it would be foolish for non-Muslims to rely on some kind of promised, but never quite delivered (and impossible of delivery) "reform" of Islam
4) Acknowledge also that there is not time to wait for this "reform" or change of heart in any case -- the Da'wa and demographic conquest of Western Europe could, within a few decades, create a situation of intolerable unpleasantness, expense, and physical danger for Infidels, and for their freedoms, their art, their science (as has already occurred but to an even greater degree.)
5) Admit that it is misleading to make judgments about Islam based on "moderate" Muslims -- a telling phrase, that -- that is, the unobservant, the indifferent, those who are either ignorant of, or deliberately wish to ignore, a large part of Islam.They think that if they dismiss it, then Infidels should be willing to dismiss it as well.
No.
I agree with Hugh - no reform of islam is possible, as the koran is the immutable word of allah.
So how does islam reform, for if it does not, then the possibility of a global civil war, the very worst kind of war, is a distinct possibility, with untold casualties.
Muslims believe that the koran is a revelation from allah, thus the only way it can be reformed is if there is another revelation. Now Ahmednijadeh believes that he is getting revelations, halo and all. So let us hope that he or someone in the muslim world starts to reveal a new revelation from allah that is consonant with modernity.
You cannot enlighten your people by locking women under black veils, keeping women barefoot and pregnant, controlling access to other ideas and thoughts.
The Muslim "reformers" seem to be anxious to get the recognition first, before they even get any results. They want the degree before any exams are written.
Engaging in reforms should be more than about getting some quick recognition for PR purposes in the absence of any meaningful changes.
Let the Muslims first prove their enlightenment before seeking the exalted title of "englightened".
Islam's self-conditioned collectivism makes me think of it as a sort of Marxism before Marx was born. And it's theologically based.
Muslims seem to think they can achieve desired quality of relations with the rest of the world based solely on the actions of activists and agitators. Meanwhile, the rest can continue on in the 7th century.
Sorry, but enlightenment has to be practiced at the grassroots level, and not merely by a few articulate PR-activist spokesmen. You can't just parade a few spokesmen out in front and hope that will create strong cross-community ties, while the rest of your community stays in darkness. Superficial candy-coating won't hide the rot underneath.
Islam – the texts – cannot be reformed. No-one can come and say those things mean something else that what innumerable scholars have been confirming for centuries and be credible in front of the Umma. At best, we would thus create one more sect, the only one who would be able to see anything tolerant and peaceful in the scriptures. So what?
But Islam – the people – can reform their religion and thinking. Let’s figure out how.
I propose that Muslims ought to set up a grand gathering, the best would be in the neighborhood of Mecca, in a complex built especially for the purpose, a great divan they would call it, where they (I’d say a few dozen thousand participants would be necessary and sufficient) would remake the job of the original madhahib under the world’s eyes (webcams, and some special forum software for the [anonymous] debates).
Because, then, either they acknowledge the texts one more time as sacred and the world will really know what it is all about, at last, for sure. Or they discard them consciously because they don’t accept such awful laws. Either way, humanity wins. I think we should, quite firmly, encourage such a project. And none less ambituous other.
"Tutto fumo, niente arrosto" -- all smoke, no fire. good writing is rewriting and is in the vernacular.
ok, finished reading.
the implication is that the Catholic Church is quite wrong to want the Muslim immigrants to be "welcome with open arms." The idea is that getting along will be difficult but is possible.
well, it is possible, but what is the value, when perhaps you could help avoid the disaster of a Muslim Europe? The acceptance is particularly odd because the Pope also has spoken of living with the new challenges. I think he even talked about the possibility of becoming a minority in Europe.
why is the Church so... loving; or (what seems truer) so lame-brained? part of the reasoning may include a desire to protect Catholic minorities in Muslim nations; but that explanation seems insufficient.
is the idea that God will come through, that all is for the best?
Actually, the Catholic Church is better inspired as it may seem:
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=48741&eng=y
and
http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=53826&eng=y
Lets face it, all this move is about is they now realise, after the whole cartoon fiasco, that the world is waking up to them, before they allowed their masses to grow into sufficient numbers and their politics snd lawyers to infiltrate enough positions of power to make the game go their way.
This is just an attempt to put the mask of peace and tolerance back on, in the hope we will go back to sleep again, thinking that barbarism is an ok guy once more.
Muslims, like most who cling to the "permanent victim" mentality, will choose the comforting [unspoken] "he may be an s.o.b., but he's our s.o.b." rationale when it comes to their "perfect man" Mohammad, the pedophile rapist murdering warlord.
Giving him up as the "ideal" would be a theological-cultural earthquake.
But, until they do, they are doomed to the opposition of everyone else on Earth who prefers to live free.
It their s.o.b. worth it?
Until it hurts too much, yes.
Then the Koran will be "reformed" overnight.
Or Islam will vanish.
I'll take either.
But the escalating hurt in the meantime will eventually make WW II look like a child's make-believe tea party.
Excellent article Hugh,
I've allowed myself to translate this into German for European readers.
Fitzgerald: Empfehlungen für Muslimische Reformierer
Der Vize Präsident von Jihad Watch Hugh Fitzgerald behandelt die Aussichten für Reformierungen des Islams und erteilt einige Ratschläge:
Neulich fasste ein Kommentar auf dieser Webseite die Stimmung vieler Amerikaner und Europäer folgendermassen zusammen " Ich glaube es bildet sich eine aufgeklärte Form des Islams, nicht zuletzt bei den muslimischen Einwanderern im Westen. Falls wir das nicht zulassen werden, bleiben wir mit der von der Wut und Neid befallenen Auffassung des Islams stecken, der Menschen des mittleren Ostens die Leben jämmerlich ist. Dies bedeutet nicht wir sollten unsere Augen vor den Radikalen die unsere Gemeinden infiltrieren, verschliessen. Aber warum sollten die braven nicht eine Chance erhalten?"
Man könnte "glauben" eine "aufgeklärte" Form des Islam entwickelt sich - aber worauf basiert sich dieser Glauben? Auf Hörensagen von einigen wenigen muslimischen Bekannten? Andauernde Überwachung der muslimischen Presse und des Fernsehens? Wissenschaftliche Studien von Muslimen zur neu-Interpretation des Islams? Tutto fumo, niente arrosto. Viel Geplänkel, herumfuchteln des Wortes "Reform" doch schlussendlich, kein denkbar glaubhafter Versuch die effektiven Texte des Korans zu ändern - und wie denn auch, soll das unveränderliche Wort Gottes ausgetauscht werden können?
Muslimische "Reformierer" konnten bis anhin keinen einleuchtenden Erweis bringen, wie sie nun die muslimische Welt insgesamt davon überzeugen wollen, die über tausend Jahre feststehende Auslegung der koranischen Texte müsste jetzt irgendwie verändert werden. Es besteht kein Anlauf ihre neuartigen Ansichten bezüglich des Korans und des Islams bei einer Milliarde recht simplen Gläubigern durchzusetzen. Wie kann jemand Heute, der über irgend welche Kenntnisse über den Islam und die Umma verfügt meinen, dass diese Muslime die im Westen leben und darin erfolgreich sind Stipendien bei der Konrad Adenauer Stiftung oder anderen zu erhalten, für diverse Projekte zur "Reform des Islams", wie soll so jemand darlegen, dass er tatsächlich an der "Reform" arbeitet, jedoch ohne zu erklären wie er die muslimischen Massen jemals dazu bringen wird eine Überarbeitung der Hadith zu akzeptieren, so dass, viele der Hadith welche von al-Bukhari und von Muslim als "authentisch "klassifiziert wurden nun degradiert und als "nicht-authentisch" eingestuft würden? Eine Unmöglichkeit.
Und wie würde Mohammed seine moralische Kur erhalten, so dass, Asma bint Marwan, die Khaybar Oase, die Köpfung der Banu Quraysa Gefangenen, die Ermordung von Abu Akaf, die kleine Aischa, und so viel andere, wie würden sie plötzlich aus seiner Biographie verschwinden? Das geht gar nicht. Man würde sich so etwas wünschen, und ohne Zweifel, nette glaubwürdige muslimische Freunde werden ihr Bestes dafür hergeben glaubhaft zu machen, dass dies bereits durch die Mehrheit der Muslimen so angenommen ist. Aber dem ist nicht so. Und sowieso, mit all dem was uns über den Islam bekannt ist, können wir wirklich jemanden glauben, der obwohl im die Lehren des Islams bekannt sind, nichtsdestoweniger darauf beharrt uns die Vorstellung anzuschwatzen, es ist in Ordnung, es kann sich ändern, wir brauchen uns ausser über die "Extremisten" keine Sorgen zu machen? Das ist Unsinn.
Es steht zu viel auf dem Spiel. Wir können uns den Luxus der Selbstbetrugs nicht leisten. Da sind erstens, die persönlichen Rechte und Freiheiten im Gegensatz zum Kollektivismus des Islam, die freie Meinungsäusserung, die Gewissensfreiheit, freie und skeptische Nachforschung, künstlerische Freiheit, die Gleichbehandlung von Frauen und nicht - Muslimen. All diese wurden immer vom Islam bedroht und sogar zerstampft. Wir dürfen unsere Entscheide über den Islam aufgrund solcher Tatbestände machen, entgegen den besänftigenden Worten von netten muslimischen Bekannten.
Man kann durchaus solche "nette muslimische Freunde" haben und dennoch darauf bestehen, seine Verfahrensweise nicht auf diese Hand voll zu abzustellen welche offensichtlich persönliches Interesse daran haben, dass die Ungläubigen über den Islam nicht aufgeschreckt werden. Das geht nicht. Falls sie aufrichtig sind, dann müssen sie zu aller erst:
1) Aufhören über den Inhalt des Islams zu lügen
2) Zugeben, dass die überwältigende Mehrheit der Muslime tatsächlich an die Lehren des Islams glauben
3) Einräumen, dass es für nicht-Muslime töricht wäre sich auf versprochene aber nie wirklich eingelöste (und gar nicht durchführbare) "Reformen" des Islams, zu verlassen.
4) Eingestehen, dass es gar keine Zeit gibt um auf diese "Reformen" oder Sinneswechsel zu warten - denn auf jeden Fall birgt die die Da'wa und die demographische Eroberung West-Europas in den nächsten Jahrzehnten, Umstände unerträglicher Belästigung, Aufwands, und physischen Gefahren für Ungläubige, und für ihre Freiheiten, für ihre Kunst und für ihre Wissenschaft (wie bereits eingetreten aber in noch grösserem Ausmass).
5) Zugeben, dass es irreführend ist über den Islam anhand von "gemässigten" Muslimen zu urteilen, - ein enttarnender Begriff - eigentlich die unachtsamen, gleichgültigen, die entweder unkundigen oder bewusst einen grossen Teil des Islams ignorierenden.
Sie meinen, weil sie es abtun, sollten die Ungläubigen es auch so halten.
Nein.
I agree with Mr. Fitzgerald. How can I not agree? I could continue to insist on wishful thinking, but I will not do that. For some time now I have decided to face facts and act accordingly, without regard for which side of the political spectrum this places me on.
I suspect until there is a UNITED FRONT by non-Muslims convinced that Islam cannot be reformed, Muslims will never give reform more than lip-service. And once they do give it serious consideration, they will arrive at the same conclusion. That is, one either rejects freedom for Islam, or rejects Islam for freedom. There is no in-between.
For the sake of our own future, and that of our posterity, rejection of Islam is the only sane choice.
"I believe an enlightened form of Islam is developing, not least among Muslim immigrants in the west. If we don't allow that to happen, we'll be stuck..."
Gagagagaga! This is the kind of thing you always hear from blue-eyed westerners, but you never hear it from the Mohammedans.
This is wishful thinking and hoping against hope. And why is the call on us "to allow that to happen...?"
This is wishful thinking and hoping against hope.
WE are not stuck: Islam is stuck, Muslims are stuck.
"...But why not give the good guys a break?"
Who are "the 'good guys..?"
Infidels would cease to be fooled by Muslim "Reformers" if the more knowledgable infidels laid out the theological and historical reasons as to why any meaningful reform in Islam is impossible. Putting the onus on the Muslim "Reformers" and demanding that they prove their sincerity and explain how their arguments would be received by the Muslim masses only invites more taqiyya and ignorant statements. There can be no reform or enlightenment in Islam but Muslims can reform and enlighten themselves if they abandon their religion and make a clean break with their culture and adopt something else (anything else). This can only come about through isolation and shame. Ali Sina has been writing about this for a long time and that is what makes him a more important ally than that shameless self-promoter, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Hugo Schmidt-Fischer--
Thank you for the translation. Post it anywhere you wish. I noticed that you didn't feel it necessary to translate "tutto fumo, niente arrosto." Apparently you agree with me, and not with a critic above, that most readers will be able to figure that phrase out.
The writing is on the wall, and the "web".
Sooner or later, and the clock is ticking, Islam will cross the line, the march to a major event is underway. If reform is not taken on now as a emergency action , once the line is crossed it will be too late.
The leader (Mo), nor the "god" of Islam will be able to help them then.
Tick, Tick, Tick...
... but in the end, no conceivable or believable attempt to change the actual text of the Qur'an -- how could it, the immutable word of God, be changed?
The only one way to change the uncreated and, therefore, immutable word of the Koranic god was abrogation. And that solution became unavailable upon 632 AD, the year of Mohammed’s death, a happy year indeed.
MO ABROGATIONS MO MAGHRIBIAN NAVIGATIONS MO SUBJUGATIONS MO MO MO
And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know.
--- God talking about himself in the third person in Koran 16:101 (Shakir)
MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO MO
We? Who was We? And who was You?
Could it be, just possibly, that the “holy prophet” Mohammed was making these revelations up on the fly to advance his needs, and invented abrogation as a way to explain why the he, er God, kept changing his mind.
What we do know, though, is that the list of abrogations of Allah's immutable statements is a line of good verses replaced by evil verses.
"that shameless self-promoter, Ayaan Hirsi Ali."
Huh?? Oh, you mean that selfless, outspoken victim of islamist persecution, who puts her life on the line to save YOU and ME from islam.
It's not her fault that she's brilliant and gorgeous and gets lots of European media attention - we should be grateful for that. And I'm hoping we'll see a lot more of her and her message once the US media really pay attention to her.
BTW Igor, it's not a competition. Thanks for pointing out another outspoken critic of islam. The more the better...
What Hugh says may be true at this time... However, religions experience change- radical change, and it does not happen overnight. The Protestants did not become a powerful challenge to the established Church for some time.
Hugh-
Unless, of course, an "earlier than any previously-known Koran text" is found in the deserts of Arabia, perhaps like the Nag Hammadi gnostic texts, secreted in a large jar and stumbled upon by some passing goat herder.
And then sold to a passing archeologist who has a penetrating knowledge of classical Arabic.
A startling text that contradicts all of the later terroristic suras.
Abrogating the entire "accepted" Koran in one exigegetical/apocalytpic moment.
It could happen.
It should happen.
Inshallah.
Hugo Schmidt-Fischer:
You have done a freat job translating Hughs article above. I read German and I can tell that you are a professional.
If the message gets out it will be thanks to people like yourself who help our cause. Thank you and please continue this very important work!
Hugh:
"Tutto fumo, niente arrosto"- "
"viel Rauch, aber kein Fleisch auf dem Grill..." is the best I can come up with...
sheik yermami--
You had already left Viareggio for Lucca, when my email to you, slightly misaddressed (and I stuck on the stamp upside down) bounced back. I merely asked you to give Ilaria a kiss when the security guard wasn't looking.
profitsbeard--
The finding of a mysterious Ur-Qur'an has been suggested before at JW, though with different details (found among the piled-up unattended loot in a museum (Middle East, Samarkand, St. Petersburg will all do). Look around in the Archives.
"Which Ilaria?" you ask. Sheik, you know which Ilaria. Remember Chatsky's line at the end of "Woe From Wit": "Carretto mne, Carretto."
Hugh-
Although a museum basement can hold any number of misplaced surprises (two buddies of mine were nightwatchmen many moons back at a well-known university museum and they gave me an unauthorized midnight tour which was an amazing revelation ... to realize that 90% of the collection was haphazardly stored on tin shelves beneath the public floors of the building, treasure upon treasure collecting dust in jumbled trays, or stacked, Jivaro head next to samurai armor leaning over heaps of untranslated, undocumented Assyrian spool signature seals) the verisimilitude needed to validate a "new" ur-Koranic find would require the romance of the desert wastes, a wandering tribesman, a dusty pot, an Indiana Jonesy scientist and the creak of papyrus being unrolled for the first time in 1300 years to make it seem believable.
And this "new" Koran's sura 9:29-30 might read more like:
"Allah's children are all one, and let there be no conflict between any of His creatures, whether Jew or Christian or Greek or Sabean or Vedic gymnosophist, for all seek the truth in their own manner, and deserve respect as offspring of the Source of All Life, forever. Religion is the ending of hatred and vengeance and envy and war, and all of the faithful must learn that the highest wisdom is Compassion and the truest knowledge is Love."
Maybe with this "original" Koran, Islam might have an escape clause from its current holy headlock.
I'm hoping a shovel finds it soon.
Hugh,
You can't be serious! This could have been the beginning of a great friendship!
The only Ilaria I know is the real pretty one in the PRADA shop in Forte di Marmi, don't tell me that's where you are going? I always kiss her, no need to ask! Wouldn't miss it for the world....
But really, I would have taken you to Tito al Molo for seafood or to La Nina in the mountains, where you can get the best Bistecca Fiorentina or the greatest Filletto con Capello in all of Italy.
How could you...?
Sheik-
The beautiful Ilaria I was referring to never leaves Lucca, and though there is something expensively marmoreal about her, she wouldn't be caught dead selling Prada in Forte di Marmi. Some find her cold. They expect too much. Google "Ilaria" and "Carretto" and, for the echoed Russian, "karetu mne, karetu."
"hoping a shovel finds it soon..."
-- from a posting above
Or a master-forger, versed in 7th century Syriac and the earliest known Arabic.
henry
I am with you. The truth is Islam's greatest enemy. That is what the cartoon jihad is all about.
Hugh,
"a master-forger"? Such are the seeds of the failure of reform, as I am guessing you are aware.
Ultimately the reform debate is between (a) those who believe all religion is just a product of man, and so can be arbitrarily changed by some magical means (ex. an amazing discovery in a long lost jar) to suit some new idea of modernity, and (b) those who recognize that adherents to Islam believe in its divine authority, and so canNOT be arbitrarily changed to suit new ideas of modernity.
It is my opinion that this debate over reformability oftentimes devolves into academic gobbledygook vs simple, practical clarity.
Also, the comparison to the Protestant reformation is inappropriate. That reformation was NOT a negation of any of the New Testament. Furthermore, the Church has undergone its own reform to purge itself of practice not supported by New Testament text (ex. the Inquisition, forced conversion, enslavement under the pretense of conversion, etc).
We will find ourselves subjected to persons that will staunchly defend the right of Islam to "reform itself" for many years to come. It is quite the dancing swords act, isn't it? I mean, in due course they will realize their [Islam's] goal of spreading and multiplying on every corner of this globe and then they will no longer feel the need to hide their true motivations: they'll be represented in Congress and Parliment already.
Then a few key assasinations, some more terror, a few bombings and presto: regime change right here in the good old USA. And the entire time CAIR will come out and calculatingly damn the violent actions "done in the name of Islam" and offer its apologies, while few might even question if they had a hand in the violence themselves. Oh, yes, it reads like a Greek Tragedy, the way we are imploding.
I deal with the pollyannas of the world with a gentle hammering. I hope sometimes that it might change the course of thought, but I never go into such arguments believing that I will succeed. The taint of liberalism or the want of Utopia runs too deeply in some folks. (Or plain cowardice.)
Don't waste much time trying to convert people to the truth -- instead, devote more time trying to band together those people that are already questioning the lies on the television and are like the rest of us in the fact that they know 9/11 certainly could not have manifested by some quirk of Fate and a handful of "radical" Muslims:
http://forum.dansimmons.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=6935&page=0&vc=1#Post6935
I hold out about as much hope of seeing Islam reform as I do of seeing gold coins pour out of a gumball machine.
I didn't hear the source of this quote, but....
"That's not to say that we should close our eyes to the radicals that are infiltrating our immigrant communities. But why not give the good guys a break?"
aren't you "giving the good guys a break" by asking the questions that Robert and the rest ask here at Jihadwatch? Aren't you actually helping them out by pointing out radicals with murderous desires? in particular since OBL recently urged the killing of Muslim liberals and freethinkers?
Under such conditions, intelligent questions based on solid facts can only offer assistance in such efforts. admittedly, Mr. Fitzgerald seems to stuggle with basing his questions on actual facts from time to time, but Robert takes great pains to do so, which never fails to impress.
"admittedly, Mr. Fitzgerald seems to stuggle with basing his questions on actual facts from time to time.."
-- from a posting above
Examples welcome of this "struggling" to "base" my "questions" on "actual facts"? Which "questions"? Which "actual facts"?
REALITY CHECK....
Europe is becoming Islamic.The Islamics are active in South America,Canada,all of Scandinavia,
and the Pacific rim. They have an elected government in "Palestine", Israel is capitulating
with "Land for Peace", and the mad mullahs of Persia will have an atomic bomb soon. The West can do little but wait for another Charles Martel.
The liberties of press,speech,and religion have
been largely sacrificed on the alter of academic elitism and vague social and political theory
of multi cultureism, political correctness,
et al. Yea,lets reform Islam..good luck.
REALITY CHECK....
Europe is becoming Islamic.The Islamics are active in South America,Canada,all of Scandinavia,
and the Pacific rim. They have an elected government in "Palestine", Israel is capitulating
with "Land for Peace", and the mad mullahs of Persia will have an atomic bomb soon. The West can do little but wait for another Charles Martel.
The liberties of press,speech,and religion have
been largely sacrificed on the alter of academic elitism and vague social and political theory
of multi cultureism, political correctness,
et al. Yea,lets reform Islam..good luck.
REALITY CHECK....
Europe is becoming Islamic.The Islamics are active in South America,Canada,all of Scandinavia,
and the Pacific rim. They have an elected government in "Palestine", Israel is capitulating
with "Land for Peace", and the mad mullahs of Persia will have an atomic bomb soon. The West can do little but wait for another Charles Martel.
The liberties of press,speech,and religion have
been largely sacrificed on the alter of academic elitism and vague social and political theory
of multi cultureism, political correctness,
et al. Yea,lets reform Islam..good luck.