Hirsi Ali persecution blows up on Verdonk

GRANT AYAAN HIRSI ALI HONORARY US CITIZENSHIP - NOW!

LGF:

"... if Netherlands Integration Minister Rita Verdonk succeeds in revoking Hirsi Ali’s Dutch citizenship, she may have serious difficulties in getting a visa for the United States."

ME: If she can't get a US visa, then Bush and Congress should confer citizen status on her AT ONCE. She would be in fitting company: Winston Churchil, Raoul Wallenberg, Mother Teresa, Lafayette, and The Penns - (NOT Sean and Robin, but the Founders of Pennsylvania!).

http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2006/05/grant-ayaan-hirsi-ali-honorary-us.html

Femke Halsema, leader of GroenLinks (Green Left), reveals the email address of AHA: magan@tweedekamer.nl. This means that just about everyone in The Hague must have known AHA lied about her name for years - and there's absolutely no reason why Verdonk would start an investigation into her now - apart from opportunism borne of the desire to become the leader of the VVD party.

Dutch PBS reports that the VVD and CDA, the two main parties that form the government, will ask of Verdonk to reconsider her decision - or else.

http://www.zachtei.nl/2006/05/16/001168.html

After the business of her trouncing the non handshaking iman I used to rather admire Rita Verdonk. And her name always reminded me of two rather lovable creatures in Colchester Zoo, the zeedonks, hybrids (which will never be bred again, opinions of such ventures having changed) of zebra and donkey.
To call her behaviour here a disappointment is an understatement. Is there dirt to be had on her which the Dutch Moslem community have used as a lever? In a country like Holland what could be that damaging? Not drugs, not sex, so what? No zeedonk, but maybe an ass.

Magnus Linklater in the Times was not impressed.

a rare bit of good news in these days

Hold on, she did lie to be accepted, as for her position I think they will fast track her re-application for citizenship based on her current situation.

If anyone is worthy of political assylum that it has to be Hirsi Ali. At this point Verdonk is applying the letter of the law and is correct to do so. And a re-application for citizenship is the correct course of action in my view.

I would like to ask the question how can we tighten up immigration in Europe if we have such a high profile exception, our enemies will use her to drive a bloody great horse and cart through it.

More here.

Verdonk is a very silly name. It sounds a bit like the old children's game "Kerplunk". Rita Kerplunk has lost all her marbles.

It is unfair to mock people because of their names, but in her case I'll make an exception.

I think what upset me was the undercurrent of venom in the way Miss Ali was hounded out of her flat by the neighbours then suddenly, and in a blaze of publicity, presented with that letter stripping her of Dutch citizenship.
"You were never Dutch"
Regularising her position could have, should have, been done when she first admitted to the irregularities of her application. I agree that the right thing must be done, and seen to be done, but this was just not the right way to go about it. It leaves a nasty taste.

Old Europe's loss, America's gain. I've never seen such venom aimed at this hero in such a small time period. Yes, hounding her out of her apartment, using some cowardly, eurosocialistic premise to do so. Shame on Old Europe! Europa, Europa . . . from the killing fields of Hitler to the vilification of Hirsi Ali.

Will her banishment end the fear in Old Europe? Will it end the state of siege? The murders, the rapes, the intimidation, the dhimmification of the land? Will the sacrifice of Hirsi Ali be enough to sooth the hordes? Will the Muslim "youth" from North Africa be satisfied with your pound of flesh? How about a break from all contacts with the US and Israel . . . throw in India and Denmark for good measure! Would this be enough? Perhaps getting rid of the smut houses and drug dens in Amsterdam, and burning those pesky books and art works.

Since what Arabs love most is comparitive history with Nazis, I'd like to end my rant with a question: Remember Adolph Hitler blustering for more land, ever more land, in 1938-1939? Remember N. Chamberlin, extolling 'Peace in our Time?' Remember that peace of paper he waved from his tired hand? In today's little drama from Old Europe, it appears that the aging, mostly white leadership of The Netherlands is playing the part of the good socialistic, venerable, appeasing, wannabe Duth Uncle: berating a heroine for not being Dutch, for lying to be admitted, but, of course, there is always subtext in a drama. It's the action 'between the words.' It is here we find the futile, pathetic, window to the history of 1939! Peace in our time! Indeed.

Re Verdonk goes to the stink-tank:

The treatment of Ayaan Hirsi Ali is injustice. However, what strikes me is the gleeful enthusiasm with which the Ayaan Hirsi Ali-phobics seize upon and focus on her "lies" which were told in order to escape oppression. They have to focus on those "lies" in order not to face the truth. The whole thing is like accusing Ann Frank and family of lieing to get into Holland and not looking at the reason why they lied.

I was gone for three days, and couldn't believe the articles posted here when I got back. Kicking her out of The Netherlands- unbelievable.

However, this could be the best thing to happen in a long time, not just for the U.S. but for the world. By coming to work in Washington, she may have a huge influence in helping to shape U.S. foreign policy. Even if she were to do the same in Holland, they are not a world power, whereas the U.S. is. I think she'll have far more of an impact globally by getting out of there, so our gain and all that. I say bring her over at once and let her get at it.

Isn't this the same Rita Verdonk that is on record saying she 'would not read the koran because it would be too depressing and she doesn't want to lose all hope...?'

Rita is a bitch. People like her don't like competition. Especially not from a good looking, articulate and charismatic female from the 3rd world. She just had to do it, like the scorpion and the frog...

Now we've got AHA's email, let's all send her supportive messages. I'm sure that she'll appreciate it. She needs all the support that she can get.

A Saturday night live style skit should have Ayaan Hirsi Ali playing Ann Frank, being hounded by the neighbors to move, with Officer Verdonk telling Ann that she lied to get into Holland and that she's not a Dutch citizen and should be returned to Germany. (In the background we hear the Nazi police cars in the distance, sirens blaring, on their way to Ann's attic.)

what a truly dispicable story. They are running her out of town to appease the muslim masses. Shame on everyone involved.

Granny, Without a doubt it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth too and I am damned upset to lose her from Europe, however she is safer in the USA and I think she can do more good there.

There is a battle going on in various European countries over immigration control, including France, disgusting as this is against such a brave and committed democrat, it sets a very high precedent indeed about citizenship and lying to gain it. I wonder if there is more to this then meets the eye, I really do. This battle to tighten up on immigration is key, once we have won that we then have to get at the illegals and those who lied or were carrying out criminal acts and deport them, but we need to win that first battle.

Awakening to the threat of Islam will be a slow and painful process, where we will see steps both forward and backward. There will be constant progress though, simply because the truth is on our side and it is coming out, through the efforts of the creators of this site, Hirsi Ali, and all of us. I myself have elightened a lot of people, mostly liberal types. Even multiculturalists cannot deny what the Quran and Hadith say, when they are presented with it in print. The very canonical texts of Islam are our best asset.

It is my observation, on very little evidence I admit, that the firestorm that Verdonk raised by her idiotic move against Hiris Ali is partly political; she wants to lead her party, and thought she was elbowing a rival out of the way, but her colleagues do not enjoy such bold fratricide. There is however a subtext, that many Dutch lawmakers like having Hirsi Ali around, because she is doing something very difficult that someone has to do. When she goes, someone else will take up the mantle.

I have spoken to a number of Dutch expats in NY, and I can assure you that they are not cowering dhimmis. They have a very clear understanding that their country is in crisis. Like most people, they are largely ignorant that Islam condones or encourages all the problems they see in the immigrant community, but their awareness is growing all the time.

All hope is not lost for the Netherlands or Europe. The emergence of an Islam-aware infidel majority will take time and preseverence from people like us. The demographic situation, while worrisome, should not be overstated. No nation in Europe will have a Muslim majority anytime soon; apocalyptic population projections we hear bandied about are mostly fanciful. This drama unfolding will only open up more eyes in the Netherlands.

Quijybo
P.S. Some encouragement from a Hobbit:

Frodo Baggins: I can't do this Sam.

Sam Gamgee: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.

Frodo: What are we holding on to Sam?

Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

hi from scotsguy in london.
Many bogus asylum seekers/economic migrants come to the uk seeking a better life,most do give there proper names,knowing that if they dont,if found out,they will be jailed or removed from the country.This lady went to holland,and lied in her initial application for asylum!! why?,and why did it take her 10 years to rectify her mistruths?.I realise she is a fierce critic of islam,but i fear we have all been hood-winked by this devious individual.Are you telling us robert,that its okay for people to break hollands immigration laws,just because she is a good debater on islamic short-comings?.....i think not.You've been conned in the nicest possible way,just like the rest of us robert!!!.You dont break a countrys laws to suit your agenda! 11 million mexican illegals in usa,millions of illegals in uk/europe,heavens forbid robert,do you think there may be a few islamic radicals in there,who gave false names????..... best wishes scotsguy london ps This woman aint stupid,she conned everybody from the word go....

"If anyone is worthy of political assylum that it has to be Hirsi Ali. At this point Verdonk is applying the letter of the law and is correct to do so. And a re-application for citizenship is the correct course of action in my view." - Daffersd

What was it Churchill said about the law. From memory something like. "Law, administered to the letter of the law, is tyranny. Law administered to spirit of the law is justice." Somewhere along the way, we have lost our understanding of just what 'justice' is all about. Think on this, why did our forefathers develope the legal system, whereby judges were appointed to "interpret the law", a somewhat flawed approach, as current trends reveal. For it would seem that they had an understanding that we have lost, namely that complexity cannot be reduced to a cleanly defined simple "X", and therefore, reason and logic, married to caution, should be placed against the "facts" to try, and I stress the word try, to determine "the right" or "true justice of a decision". While they were aware of the delicate balancing act they were trying to accomplish, not having a crystal ball however, they did not foresee, how this could be twisted to serve corrupt ends: or maybe they did, but just trusted to the belief in the innate goodnees of society in general, for how could they have imagined the Gramscian subversive philosopgy in action.

By the way Daffersd. I found that copy of Livy. Re. Hannibal, in a way we were both right, for Marcellus' victory outside the city of Nola, was no more than a skirmish. Hannibal did indeed withdraw, but only to go sack another Roman city. I was right, in that he didn't see the point in wasting precious resourses on difficult sieges. Sorry to go off topic Robert.

Hey, if she claims to be Mexican she would be in like Flynn.

Just Another Richard, bit more than a skirmish, and he stopped Hannibal from carrying out his objective, so Hanibal found himself frustrated made another choice.

I agree with your point, but does this not set a precedent, at this point with a death sentence by Islamics against her, she would win a re-application in short order and the law will have been seen to be applied. Then they can get at the illegals etc. armed with quite a high profile precedent. A fast tracked re-application is a smart move.

I know times are grim but perhaps we could do with a laugh, too:

http://www.engrish.com/recent_detail.php?imagename=sony-terror.jpg&category=Signs/Posters&date=2006-05-15

Before I make my remark I want to say that I am very happy for Ayaan that the USA welcomes her. A great country for a great person.

Although I totally disagree with the way Verdonk has handled this, I really don't see why she needs to be so totally trashed by some. She is after all one of the few who does stand up against appeassing the Muslims in our country.
Also I notice some remarks about the morality of Holland, that makes me wonder.
Will you all still like Ayaan as much as I do, when she will fight for same sex marriage in the USA?

I think it's a wonderful idea to mail her.
Go to www.parlement.com/9291000/biof/02411
and you will see "contact" on right side.
I am not sure if the Magan mail account is still operative. This one is for sure.

Will you all still like Ayaan as much as I do, when she will fight for same sex marriage in the USA?

I'm a Briton. May I still answer? She has come from a society where there is no distance between concepts of what is moral and what is legal. She is also very young and has not spent enough time observing the world in a free society and reflecting on it.

(Note, "morality" here is a problematic term, because "morality" in Islam means effectively what is best for the collective - the umma - without consideration of what is best for the flourishing of the individual.)

It seems to me that, in effect, she has "flipped over". She now has a different conception of what "morality" consists in, but still fails to understand that the moral and the legal need not coincide. Moreover, her conception of what is "moral" is still ideologically determined - thus relatively rigid - only the ideology has changed.

Mature and stable societies have sound notions of what is right and what is wrong (and, to some extent, reflect those understanding in institutional form). However, they don't seek to impose such conceptions in the public space and leave space for those who cannot or do not wish to live up to the ideals of the society.

She may come to appreciate this in time.

This is not the point. The point is that she has first-hand experience of the particular burdens laid on women in Islamic societies and is prepared to speak out about it. At the moment, when Islam threatens the West, and, moreover, Islamic apologists who are available to talk down the threat abound, speaking out on what she, from personal experience, knows about is a very valuable service that she can render to the free world.

"I agree with your point, but does this not set a precedent, at this point with a death sentence by Islamics against her, she would win a re-application in short order and the law will have been seen to be applied. Then they can get at the illegals etc. armed with quite a high profile precedent. A fast tracked re-application is a smart move." - Daffersd

Agree, that you have a point, for on face value it does have some merit, though maybe, it's just the way that this is coming out, smacks too much of partisan bickering, to bode well for the future. So the best course could be to be patient and see what transpires over the next few days; then again, events and counterevents seem to be happening by the hour, so who knows where this will end. I think the flaw in your premise lies in the unwitting acceptance of the Islamics proposed action against Hirsi Ali, as being of a valid position for the group to hold. It is totally outside the law and must be resisted by all civil society, if we are even to stand a chance of maintaining our civilisation. No, I don't mean to imply that you have some tacit acceptance of radical Islam, just that your course of action, inadvertantly lends an ear to the immorallity that is seeking to overthrow the established order. This is the essential danger which faces us, for in seeking dialogue with murderers, we surrender ourselves to their terms

Well if their planning on stripping Hirsi Ali’s citizenship for lying on her asylum application, the Belgian’s along with every other EU state could probably kick-out at least half of their immigrant population’s if they went back through and verified the applicant’s data. .

I'm pretty sure Bruce Bawer, in his book ‘While Europe Slept,’ discussed not only some of the means they use in applying for asylum but does goes into some detail on welfare abuse and fraud. (BTW, the book gives a very interesting look into this 'Dystopia' the Euro's are busy creating. What Bruce lacks in detailed data is certainly made-up by keen observation.)

At any rate, Hirsi Ali ‘stands out.’ She’s simply not conforming to EU Multicultural Law #1: ‘Don’t point-out or give any indication that the whole of the EU system is a fraud and a failure, especially in the area’s of immigration and integration.’

Now she’s a political scapegoat who needs to get her behind to the US before she gets herself killed.

This is playing out pretty much as intended by the plotters.

This is not about asylum fraud.
This is about chasing AHA and Verdonk out of town. Both are intensely hated by the left, one for her anti-dhimmi attitude, the other for her ruthless deportation policies.
So, you let Verdonk take out AHA on a technicality, and then finish off Verdonk because of the inhumane implementation of her policies on a celebrity politician.

And if the government bites the dust in the process, even better.

Now, THAT's what you do when you're ahead in the polls, and have read Macchiavelli.

Sometimes, life is so simple.

I can't help but wonder if Ali has been placed on this planet for a special purpose. The Netherlands now has to make a special case to recognise her as a citizen. That is, the Netherlands is having to choose her over Islam. The West as it currently stands is unable to choose its immigrants, other than on the basis of skills. Now a Western country is being forced to recognise the importance of her anti-Islam message and welcome her back to continue her work. The West needs to call a spade a spade and say no to further muslim immigration. Not make up obscure technical immigration rules that merely limit the Muslim influx. Reaccepting Ali back into the Netherlands as a citizen would be a small step in the right direction.

Just Another Richard, I'd rather go back to the lying charge on the back drop of a real attempt to tighten up on immigration in Europe. The machinations of the Islamics is immaterial to this, they may think that they have won a victory, but it will be phyric.

My view is that Islam is so totally against the Western concept of freedom, individual rights and democracy that it can not exist in the same space, dealing with Islam as it should be dealt with means that we have to remove such freedoms from Muslims, which is very difficult to do in our society, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This is the uncomfortable position that the West is in, after the Muslims who else if the wrong type of people get in power. Fear and indecision at the very time when we need clear and direct leadership, like acknowledging that we are even at war with Islam.

My point of view is that if Germany can ban Scientology, why not Islam, as it is evidently a cult around Mo. My focus is on Islam as a religion, as a poiltical system and a way of life, not against the Muslims, many of wholm are its biggest victims. True I hate the extremists, but not the simple manipulated people. Islam is a control system for the masses above all other I have seen.

I know what I would do if I was in charge, but the only way one could do this is as a dictator, as it involves closing moques and Islamic schools and deporting any that do not accept our values. At this point I wait for something really bad to happan that proves it is a war and only then will we do something about it, in which case I find my self in the rather odd position of cheering on Bin Laden and hoping that he is not too successful in the number of dead and injured. I am sorry if that offends.

The other day I posted something on Harrys Place about the murder of two immigrants and serious injury caused to another, I explained that it was due to uncontrolled immigration which is true. Some people did not like it. Two days later three Algerian/Morrocan down and outs were found in different places in Paris with their throat cut. I happan to think that this was Muslims trying to stir up the mobs. But I get the impression that the start of the civil war between infidels and Muslims in Europe is getting nearer and nearer.

Don't place me as an appeaser, just a very frustarted secular guy that wishes we could all life in peace, but realises that this is not possible with Islam.

This tightening up of immigration hopefully targetted against Muslims is so key, it really is.

Daffersd. No I don't place you in the camp of the appeasers. I see us as on the same side, just from a slightly different perspective, and given that we are free individuals, is that not one of the great strengths of western pluralism. Islam's great strength is at the same time it's great weakness, in that it is monolithic to it's core.

Like you, I feel that this war will only get underway, when Bin Laden and friends gain another success, and like you, I dread the blood price of the innocent, demanded by the beknighted saints of western secular tolerance, upon the alter of their self-righteous pieties, before spurring us all to action.

This inaction in the face of a blatant attempt at a power grab on the part of Islam, only emboldens them, but this is a double edged sword, for while it surrenders our sovereignty, security and rights to interlopers,in the short term, it also brings out their true agenda into the light of day. Our greatest danger however, is not the Islamics, for truth be told, had we the will, we could swat them like flies. No the real danger is from the enemy within, and it's hidden agendas, though it too, is being slowly exposed. Though how to break their stranglehold on the organs of the dissemination of information, I find to be still the hardest part of this puzzle.

It certainly is the hardest part, yes it is being exposed, but slowly and it often costs a great deal to do this.

I really struggle trying to get behind the motives of these people, it can only be money, power, position and to fit into a yes culture that develops a life of its own, rather like the EU. They obviously do not see what is going on, perhaps it is political dogma, a refusal to change direction, or that they have surrounded themselves with so many comfortable illusions that they hate the people who shatter them.

I think the Internet has broken their control of information, though like this attack on the Belgian blogger they will still try the old methods. That particular attack is so typical of Belgium. In fact the EU is just a larger version of Belgium, uuugggh, what a truely horrible thought!

Just out of curosity, where are all the Women's Movements, like N.O.W., on this? On any of the Islamic treatment of women?

Hey scotsguy,

1)Ayan has suffered Female Genital Mutilation [look it up - imagine getting your "johnson" filleted with a razor]

2) She refused to live under a system of control and thus rejected Islam [this means she would be murdered for apostacy - she's notorious enough that death is a sure thing for her in unfriendly company]

3) She refused a forced marriage and ran like hell [uh - who here wants to blame Ali for this one?]

My take on this whole debacle is simple. Here is a human being who could not bear to loose the freedom of her choice to live as she chooses. Considering the weight of what she faced, she did what I would imagine any of us might do in order to survive and escape to safe haven - we would lie.

Of course bearing false witness can be considered moral falibility yet consider that not one of Ayan Hirsi Alis false statements were nefarious or of destructive intent. Far cry from comparing this to Taquiyya so let's not go there.

She was trying to save her own life.

Would I blame Ayan Hirsi Ali? No, I'd give her a big American hug the moment she steps onto American soil!

What is tragic about this is that Verdonk could have made the point she wanted to make without causing a scene. She could have revoked Ayaan's citizenship for lying, and then immediately restored it given her inability to return safely to Somalia or Kenya and because she is a member of the Dutch parliament. (The Dutch parliament may not exactly be part of the rules, but it voids the democratic will of the people to throw out an elected representative without a cause stronger than this one.) Verdonk could have made her point about the law without the backlash! And of course Verdonk could have done and said nothing without jeapordizing much in terms of immigration enforcement.

& Verdonk potentially could been the next prime minister of the Netherlands. In the big picture, it is best that she made her error at this point. If she were to have become prime minister and had done something as equally stupid, the dhimmi leftists would have exploited her mistake into a large majority with all the disaster that that would imply.

"Voltaire and Erasmus Are Spinning in their Graves"

There is an interesting article about Hirsi Ali and Verdonk at:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416587,00.html

This is odd:
"A majority of the political parties in parliament backed two motions on the issue. One calls on Verdonk to reconsider within six weeks whether Hirsi Ali is a Dutch citizen. The second instructs the Minister to grant Hirsi Ali accelerated naturalisation if she finds she is not a citizen of the Netherlands."

If she found to be a citizen, everything is hunky-dory; I presume. If she is found not to be a citizen, then grant her citizenship. If I have understood this correctly, they don't care about the outcome as long as Hirsi Ali is made a citizen. It is appears to be a backhand slap in Verdonk's face and a kick in her fundament.

Should I slam Verdonk?

If there aren't 300,000 offenders of far more serious immigration deceptions now living in The Netherlands (granted "asylum" while "fleeing" from oppressive Muslim countries) than Hirsi Ali's minsicule, self-defensive white lies, then Verdonk is a ass-backwards idiot.

Attacking an vital ally of Holland in order to avoid opposing the great numbers of Muslim worse offenders who will not be challenged, or have their citizenships revoked, or deported.

Verdonk reminds me of the little Dutch kid who saved the city by putting his finger in the leaking dike, except that she put her finger in her eye, instead.

And now her country will continue to be flooded by the real, hostile anti-democratic demographic tsunami from Islamic lands.

Verdonk.

Klootzak.