Israel, like Europe and America, still labors under the delusion that peace can be won through concessions and negotiated settlements. This is a fundamental and ultimately lethal misapprehension. The jihad ideology stipulates that Muslims must strive to establish the hegemony of the Islamic social order over the world, offering non-Muslims conversion to Islam, subjugation as inferiors -- dhimmis, or protected (or guilty) people -- under Islamic law, or war. This imperative does not stem from outrages committed by the infidels, although such outrages, whether imagined or real, are used as pretexts to stir up support for the jihad at hand.
If Israel gives up part of Jerusalem, peace will not come. The Palestinian mujahedin and their allies will have fresh demands. And Jerusalem itself will become more dangerous and uncomfortable for free people who believe in the equality of rights of all people.
From AP, with thanks to Teri:
JERUSALEM - Israel's new government is drawing up a blueprint for dividing the holy city of Jerusalem — a once inconceivable notion — giving the Palestinians nearly all the Arab neighborhoods while holding onto Jewish areas and disputed holy shrines. Otniel Schneller, an architect of the plan, described it in interviews this week with The Associated Press, giving the clearest picture yet of how Israel plans to separate from the Palestinians, abandoning most of the West Bank."We will not divide Jerusalem, we will share it," he said.
Most of Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods would go to the Palestinians, he said. "Those same neighborhoods will, in my assessment, be central to the makeup of the Palestinian capital ... al-Quds," Schneller said, calling Jerusalem by its Arabic name.
Israel would keep Jerusalem's Old City with its shrines sacred to Jews, Muslims and Christians alike — an unacceptable plan to Palestinians, particularly if carried out unilaterally.
See? The next round of demands is already taking shape.
I wish that someone with Photoshop skills could show us what the Temple Mount would look like if it was cleansed of those hideous Medieval Muhammadan structures.
while Israel divides Jerusalem, Hammas will keep on killing Jews. yes this sure sounds logical way to acquire peace. Peace will only be achieved with victory, either side totally destroying the other. l dont
Here is the way I would divide Jerusalem:
100% goes to Israel and the remainder to the Palestinians. Seems more than fair to me.
No sharing, no dividing. These people don't deserve anything. They want want want, they kill kill kill. They won't work to take care of themselves. They deserve nothing and that's what they should get.
I am continually surprised that there has been no coup d’etat in Israel over the past few years. Foreign enemies are circling. The economy is re-structuring (for the better, but it is at a vulnerable point). The Italian-style government (representation by ideologies) doesn’t work all that well, and its partners that bicker constantly until bought off with the taxpayers’ shekels. In Latin America, Africa, Turkey or France, a coup and a declaration of a new order would be expected. However, in Israel, there is just a shrug. For now.
chsw
"Most of Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods would go to the Palestinians, he said. "Those same neighborhoods will, in my assessment, be central to the makeup of the Palestinian capital ... al-Quds," Schneller said, calling Jerusalem by its Arabic name."
Schneller is simply announcing what the dhimmis of Kadima have been planning all along.
These Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem were once overwhelmingly Christian but Olmert's corrupt development policies as Jeruslaem Mayor targeted them for removal while stupidly allowng Muslims to increase. Now he want's to legitimize these same Muslim interlopers as if they were the rightful owners of these areas.
Jerusalem is the eternal patrimony of Jews and Christians and giving one inch "back" to the Muslims should put Olmert in the same category as those ancient kings that earned the epitaph that they "did evil in the sight of the Lord."
Now that Kadima's dhimmitude is crystal-clear to everyone, let's all pray that this opportunistic coalition that keeps Olmert in power will soon collapse.
Many in Israel do not want to investigate Islam, do not want to find out why the relentless Jihad against them -- a Lesser Jihad, itself divided into the proponents of a Fast Jihad (nonstop warfare and terrorism) and those who favor(because they are more patient and realistic) the Slow Jihad (diplomatic pressure, accompanied by noises about seeming acceptance, accompanied by every conceivable kind of pressure from Arab Muslim states on Israel's few supporters, and constant pressure for one concession after another, each in turn whetting rather than sating the Muslim appetite.
The division of the world between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb does not have some kind of special exemption that reads: "And if the Infidels give up much of what they possess they will be allowed to keep the rest." No, there is no such clause. Whatever Israel gives up, it will still be required to give up more and more and more. Ultimately the entire world, by all that is right and all that is just, must be ruled by Islam and Muslims. And in the To-Do list of Islam, those Infidel polities that were created on land once possessed by Islam, whether a century ago or five centuries or a thousand years ago -- Israel, the Balkan Greece, much of the Caucasus and southern Russia, Sicily, Sardinia, of course Spain and much of India -- head the list. But France, England, Italy, Germany, Spain, and all the rest of Europe, and of course black Africa, and North America and South America and China and Korea and Japan and Australia -- ultimately, all of Dar al-Harb must be incorporated into Dar al-Islam.
What part of this don't the Israelis understand? The same part that all the other Infidels who cannot be bothered to investigate the tenets and history of Islam, or who are fearful of what they might find out and could no longer deny. But Israel is immediately threatened, and the asymmetry of money and power here (think of htose trillions flowing from that accident of geology, year by year, think of those billion Muslims, think of the vast campaigns of propaganda, think of the fellow-travellers and arabisant sympathizers, think of the irreducible percentage of any Western popuation suffering, at any one time, from the pathological condition known as antisemitism (which, in the counter-Jihad, makes antisemites a security risk to the West, as they were during the period 1935-1945).
Infidels outside Israel can learn a lot from the Infidels in Israel -- a lot about what not to do, how not to act, how not to negotiate with Muslims -- or, in the absence of negotation, to give them what they want anyway ("we'll show them"). Not everyone in Israel is as foolish as the deplorable Olmert (an Israeli Carter, but without the holier-than-thou attitude, and probably more corrupt -- Olmert's financial status as indicated by the several million dollars he received from the sale of his house, considering the salary he has received over the past several decades, suggests something is very wrong). But in Israel's press, television, and government, a great many people are. They are harming their own country -- and they are harming Infidels everywhere.
Januaryman
I like your plan.
A fallback alternative, using Hadith math, would be
Everyone should be happy. Actually, the Arabs won't be as long as Israel has one square millimeter, but that takes us again to...
Jerusalem is a Holy city for many peoples and religions. Jerusalem should be in the care of people who respect the rights of others to different forms of worship and spirituality. By and large Judaism and Israelis do respect the rights of others. By and large islam and moslems do not. Obviously Israel should have and keep the administration, ownership and care of Jerusalem. The same reasoning applies to all of the Holy Land. End of story.
Dominic.
Many Arabic-speaking Middle Eastern Christians may wish to remain in the Middle East, but not under Muslim rule. Assyrians in Iraq, some Maronites and other Christians in Syria, Copts fed up with the Egyptian Muslims and the government's not only failure to protect them, but using hostility against them as one more tactic to divert attention away from the Mubarak regime's corruption, might be willing to move. At the same time, Israel (perhaps not openly supported, but at least not opposed, by other Western governments) should keep up the pressure that will encourage local Arabs ("Palestinians") to leave, for if it is made clear that never again will that outside Infidel Jizyah be arriving (whether or not the Hamas government either cosmetically changes views, or whether the master cosmetician Abbas returns to power should be irrelevant), and that without any resources, and without a population that is wiling to work but instead has relied, during its decades of pseudo-existence, on the absurd support of first the U.N. (where the rolls of the "refugees" continually swell, as all kind of local Arabs have signed on, and where no one ever seems to die and removed from those UNRWA rolls), one might as well leave. Keep up the pressure for another few years, move in those who have suffered most immediately from Islam, and who will not be inclined to forget it, and that could do wonders -- for Israel, and for other Infidels, whether Christian or post-Christian, who need to understand why denying Muslim control of the Holy Land is so important to the survival of the West as an idea, as a reality. Some may not understand that -- well, too bad. Most will.
Hugh,
To both your posts above: Amen!!
"And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it" (Zech 12:3).
islam will try to hold on to what is not theirs. They will be destroyed. The new Temple will rise in Jerusalem.
In what country were the Jews living when Charlton Heston led them from the clutches of Yul Brynner? What country could the Jews place a mechanic's lien on every thing built before the Exodus? The Jews could have the Nile Valley and the Arabs could have the rest. It's all the fault of Ramses II; he let them get away.
That, folks is a small sample of Arab/Muslim logic; stupid, huh?
"La shanah haba bi'yerushalaim" is what we say at the Seders - "Next year in Jerusalem". The funny thing is, it doesn't mention "Next year in the parts of Jerusalem that we haven't given away yet".
Is this the same (or similar) deal which was put forward a few years ago by Israel as part of a very generous deal for a separate Palestinian state at Oslo brokered by Clinton and Barak?
And was insanely rejected by Arafat who answered by beginning the 2nd Intefada ?
Al Quds are you kidding? It is Jerusalem and Jerusalem alone. It seems that Muslims and Muslims alone have this magic ability to simply re-name and claim whatever they see fit. This name Al Quds is an insult born from a lie about some "Night journey". Enough of Islamic mis-appropriation of what belongs to others! In their collective imaginations everything is theirs.
It is sicking,madding and tragic that non-Muslims play this game. For what gain? Why? This is madness, perversity, stupidity of the highets order.
Israel will gain nothing;there is noting to be gained by any Kuffir anytime anywhere, except for a few dollars in the pocket and a temporary truce at best. This doesn't end, Jerusalem satisfies nothing for these people. But we do see that apparently terror pays of handsomely.They want to rule the world and nothing short of that.They plainly tell us so, and we won't listen and take them seriously. What is wrong with the United States, Europe and Israel. The truth is as plain as day.
It all has to end the Jizyah,the whole Palestinian fable,land for peace etc. No,no,no!!
No wonder the Muslims all cheered when Sharon had his stroke. Now even the Israelis have no real idea!!!
Giving up Gaza was quite smart stategically.
Keeping ANY west bank towns will take a major effort but is possible.
But dividing Jerusalem is symbolic surrender.
I wonder if it is the west's gutless refusal to recognise islam for what it is that is starting to eat away at the Israeli spirit? Israel has shown so much heart over the last 58 years that one always assume that their strength is infinite.
Addenda...I too would l;ike to see SAINT SOPHIA back in the hands of its bulders as well that islamic abomination on the temple mount destroyed totally.
How can the Israeli Gov. think like this? Have they not a clue about the conquer-for-Allah nature of Islam? Hasn't someone told them yet that these Arabs are Muslims?
I'm reminded of an ancient Greek adage:
"Against a man's stupidity even the gods are helpless."
Otniel Schneller
May his name be erased.
Hugh:
Ehud Olmert is far far worse than Jimmy Carter. Just read some of the news accounts of his career anbd shenanigans. He's more like Spiro Agnew.
Zathras:
Giving up Gaza was incredibly dumb strategically. Just the current rocket bases is example enough. Giving up any Israeli land is dumb. Hopefully this is the prelude to the Moshiach as it was written.
Shneller was known to be a slimey lackey years ago. But he's dangerous of course. He's a threat to peace and life.
Nobody beats Jimmi Khadr when it comes to stupidity...