Israeli MK: Execute Knesset Terrorist Collaborators

finally someone with sense and pc attitude! traitors are traitors and should be given a military court and when found guilty recieve a death sentence. these muslim mp in Israel deserve to be tried in court for aiding Israeli enemies!
l guess only muslim arabs are allowed to go to Lebanon when their stamped passports shows Israel.

"The fact that this would cause an uproar indicates a massive failure of will."

Not exactly. The Israeli government/Knesset is set up to reward self-interest and deter accountability. I don't think it's a failure of will on the part of the Israeli people. The Israeli people are in a tight spot, but...we came out of Egypt and we'll come out of this, B"H.

Following a series of MKs who condemned his words, calling them racist, Lieberman took the podium again and assured those present that race had nothing to do with what he was calling for. "My call applies equally to Jews who collaborate with our enemies," he said, citing the Neturei Karta sect, which recently visited Iran and praised the Hamas terror group.

He must have been reading JihadWatch, if he can say that race has nothing to do with his demands, implying that Islam is not a race. All Infidel countries need ballsy people like Avigdor (I can't call him Lieberman, since one would be thinking Algore's VP candidate).

On a lighter note, can we in the US trade Avigdor for Joe? I like Joe Lieberman, but he has no real home in the Democratic Party. Send him to Israel, and he'd probably bring some sense into Labor, or maybe Kadima would be a better choice for him. In the meantime, get Avigdor here into the GOP.

OT

But I thought Robert and Hugh would like to hear about this. Anyone remember thomas haidon from teh freemoslem coalition? He attacked Robert and cowardly attacked Hugh Fitgerald.I just heard him however speak in a debate with Australian Muslims on IslamicRadio (via Cairo) (my wife and I quite often monitor this) and he defended the work of both Robert and Hugh before a moslem audiene. He said that Hugh "quite often says what needs to be said, and if we are not ready to face hard truths we will continue to wallow in the gutter. These men say what moslems need to be saying". Haidon held his own amongts the Islamists...

But a bit hypocritical considering he slandered hugh

I applaud Lieberman. This is exactly how we should be treating the damnable traitors in our own midst. We have gotten soft. Too soft. And it is a sign that we are in danger of losing this war.

I'm starting to believe that liberal brain-rot is what causes lemmings to walk off cliffs.

Wow, just how contagious IS that "liberal brain-rot" I mentioned?

Moral Superiority? LOL.

I'm very sure the fascists would love for you to maintain that attitude. Right up til the point that they point your morals towards a new gas chamber, perhaps.

Darwinism in action, folks. Fight, flee or die.

Me? I'm a fighter.

Traitors should be SHOT. Period.

I'm not sure who translated that piece, but the Vichy France official referred to should read "Pierre Laval" and not "Pierre La Valle".

"My call applies equally to Jews who collaborate with our enemies," he said, citing the Neturei Karta sect

Learning about Neturei Karta was one of those mind-bending experiences. They literally want to destroy the state of Israel, since they believe that only Y*W*H can re-establish Israel, not man. It's not a matter of protesting government policy, they actively work to destroy the state. How can a government allow an organization whose stated goal is the destruction of the nation?

Same for the Knesset members who also openly call for the destruction of Israel. At a certain point, it's just common sense.

If that doesn't fit the description of "traitor", what does? If executing traitors offends sensibilities, then at least put them in prison, or at least remove them from the government.

If there could be proven that there is evidence of collaberating; Def.(to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force)- then there clearly would exist an act or acts of high treason against the country.

Chairman MK Avigdor Lieberman should at the very least be commended for his tough no nonsence comments that may have gone passively ignored by too many members of the Knesset.

loler

What you wish Israel to do is what has been Israel's problem. Why should Israel be morally superior to the Arabs? They have never been, and will never be appreciated for taking the high road; instead, they will stand out as an easier target. As Charles Krauthammer once told Rush Limbaugh (in a Limbaugh Letter interview), "The Jews live in the worst neighborhood of all, and go around with the idea that they have to be more moral than everyone else."

Israel, US and everyone else must do what Muslims would have done in their place: try traitors for treason. In the PA, people who were merely suspected of being collaborators were given vigil-ante "executions" i.e. murder. From the above story, that's not apparently what Lieberman was advocating: he was advocating that they be tried for treason, and then executed.

The same should be done to Mary McCarthy, who leaked the story about secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe, thereby complicating the detention of enemy combatants. Such vermin deserve a fair trial only as far as determining whether they are guilty or not, but once the guilt itself is established, they deserve the death sentence. And I'm not even for a wussy lethal injection: a firing squad, televized on live TV should be arranged, so that any other MF who wants to be a media star would know the risks before (s)he tried such stunts in future.

Screw the "we must be better than them". If we had this attitude during WWII, we'd all be speaking German and Japanese.

Glad, David Craig, to read up above from down under (there, put those prepositions in your pipe and smoke it, rule-bound schoolmarms everywhere) that Thomas Haidon, debating "real" Muslims in Australia, stands up for truth, justice, and the JW way. For that, he has just been awarded a special JW Free Pass. Bigger than a Get Out of Jail Free Card in Monopoly, it reads: Post Anything Critical of Hugh You Want With No Consequences. Free Pass Lasts One Month).

Specila guest posted : If executing traitors offends sensibilities, then at least put them in prison, or at least remove them from the government.

Or better still remove them from the country.

Oh, for the good old days. Israel needs some Jews like Benjamin Siegel, Arthur Flegenheimer, Meyer Suchowlinsk, Arnold Rothstein, and others.
These guys knew exactly how to deal with treachery and would have known how to "negotiate" with Arabs.

Oh, for the good old days. Israel needs some Jews like Benjamin Siegel, Arthur Flegenheimer, Meyer Suchowlinsk, Arnold Rothstein, and others.
These guys knew exactly how to deal with treachery and would have known how to "negotiate" with Arabs.

Posted by: Pelayo [TypeKey Profile Page] at May 5, 2006 07:18 PM

==============

I've loved baseball ever since Arnold Rothstein fixed the 1919 World Series.

Hyman Roth - EXCELLENT name. I wish I had thought of it.

Hyman Roth always makes money for his partners.

"Arthur Flegenheimer..."
-- from a posting above

Arthur Flegenheimer has been mentioned at Jihad Watch many times before. The management has a fondness for the dying words of Dutch Schultz. For example, here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008467.php (scroll down to find the mention)

and here:

"Dutch Schultz..."
-- from a posting above

Dutch Schultz deserves special note, not for his criminal career, but for his Dying Words, which were included by the long-suffering (much-tuition-paying for his two sons, mentioned by the author as the reason for the book in the first place) Dwight Macdonald, in his excellent anthology "Parodies." Those words of Arthur Flegenheimer, uttered in his dying delirium,in that hypnagogic state between being awake and being permanently asleep, in Macdonald's view, for their sounding like an unintentional parody of Gertrude Stein. Or possibly James Joyce. Or possibly a whole bunch of people.

Dutch Schultz deserves indulgence. The kind that Dwight Macdonald gave him.

Posted by: Hugh at November 28, 2005 11:02 AM

The others -- Roth, Siegel, and so on -- are not known for their literary legacies. Benya Krik of Odessa, on the other, Babelish hand, however....

In fact, somewhere Robert put those Dying Words up, but I haven't been able to find the post.

seems to me the has enough gangsters and people who only care about money.i wish israel had a few david's,samuels,jacob's maybe a few joshua's.islam will supply enough gangsters.

seems to me the has enough gangsters and people who only care about money.i wish israel had a few david's,samuels,jacob's maybe a few joshua's.islam will supply enough gangsters.

Avigdor Lieberman should be congradulated from one end of the earth to the other for his corageous stand against treason.

Now if only we had someone like him in charge of our church instead of Barthalamew the Dhimmi.

regime change iran has this story,Iranian state-run television said the country's oil ministry granted a license for the euro-denominated market, an idea first floated back in 2004, though just who would trade on it remains unclear.

If the market were to succeed -- or if Iran simply demanded payment for its oil in euros -- commodities experts said it could lead central bankers around the world to convert some dollar reserves into euros, possibly causing a decline in the dollar's value.now to add my own two bit's this plus a hit on the saudi oil fields.plus whats going on in latin america and africa does not bode well for america.

Good for Avigdor Lieberman for letting them have it. I've dreamed and prayed of one day having the opportunity to address America's Muslims and Leftist fellow-travelers and tell them off. What I would have to say to them would leave them crapping in their pants. I've even got my peroration all written.

campingman1,
Sorry to tell you this, but the Iranian Oil Bourse (accepting payment in "petro-euros") is old news. The blogosphere was debating that one over a year ago, with speculation that we would go to war against Iran to forestall that possibility. But I think it's not that important. We have plenty of other reasons to stick it to Iran and preventing their Oil Bourse from getting off the ground would just be icing on the cake. Let's not fall into the trap of looking for an "excuse" to attack Iran the way we used WMD to attack Iraq. Iran is fundamentalist Muslim, we're pluralist democracy, there can be no compromise, let's go get them. Simple as that.

sorry you thought that was an excuse,iran wants chaos to bring in the 12th imam.this site is to warn people.iran wants a nuke to wipe israel off the face of the earth and to ruin america.iran and hugo chavez have had many meetings,i check many blogs and papers everyday we are in danger sorry you dont see it.

Israel must try to maintain it's moral superiority

Only by losing the moral high ground did the United States end WWII. As Iran and several neighboring states race towards nuclear weapons, with little moral opposition to, or popular will against, using them, it's something to think about. But don't think for too long.

i am at a lose trying to understand the people who say they understand the danger of islam.and then say we should wait till they have nukes or the first mushroom cloud is over our troops in iraq or israel before we act.what part of islam is at war with us,did you miss?

"Pierre La Valle..."
-- from the article above, no doubt transcribing from the Hebrew original

For "Pierre La Valle" read "Pierre Laval"

Once upon a time, Israel just did what had to be done instead of talking about doing it.

Israel has become contaminated by the USA PCness.

Israel, if you wish to have a future quit waiting for the world to take action, for you did that in WWII and millions of Jews died.

Israel, continue to talk and die by the violence of the muslims.

Israel, act or cease to be.

God help yall.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.

Moral high ground...hmmm...this talk troubles me.

I refer you all to "The Prince" by Machiavelli. He will set you straight on how to win this war. Put your morals to bed for a few years. The monsters we are confronting know nothing of compassion for any of us, so don't waste energy worrying about international opinions of the nations that stand up to these threats. The snide and the weak and the cowardly will always toss barbs no matter what any of us choose to do.

The success of Nazi Germany from 1934 up to about 1941 created no end of admirers and not only Europeans (who should have known better), but politicians, journalists and intellectuals around the world including the USA and south & central America.

Even though many of these foreigners could honestly say that they had no idea of the general repression and of the executions occurring everyday in Poland, most were totally enchanted by the success and the efficiency with which German had both rehabilitated itself and overwhelemed Europe.

You can said with quite some truth that in the mind of many “neutrals” success totally outweighed morality, and it did as even at the height of Germany’s achievements (early to late 1941) there was always a shadow in the near background about the cost to innocents. There always is in time of war but this shadow seemed a little more ominous, a little more common and quite stygian in its intensity.

Many of the above supporters would cry ignorance but all you had to do was read "Mein Kampf" and look at the anxious faces of people in German occupied states to guess that the Nazi sewers ran a little more red than they should have.

You constantly hear about the Holocaust and it is often compared to the Armenian genocide. The only real thing that they have in common is an attempt to exterminate a whole ethnic/religious group. The Holocaust is a byword ONLY because Germany lost the war and the evidence, human, architectural and documentary was open for all to see.
Thus the whole extermination attempt could be seen to be a very organised and intended
process from the highest levels. Had Germany Not lost the war the holocaust would have relegated to myth and the search for the missing tribe of Israel would have been for ALL of the missing tribes of Europe. Smiling Nazi officials would have shown visiting VIPs around Auschwitz stating that:”yes it is a harsh place but a fair place. See the sign? Work hard and they all gain release eventually” There would be no trace of the gas chambers or of the killing pits.

In a war of survival against extreme odds there is NO room for morality. If any of you have seen combat you will know exactly what I mean. For instance: if you are overrunning an enemy position you do NOT take prisoners unless some special knowledge is required from the prisoner, You shoot all even those who put up their hands. Why? Because you have an objective; you are being shot at and to look after a prisoner in combat is almost impossible as you cannot watch him constantly because if you do one of his friends will probably shoot you. This is standard to ALL armies and all
warfare, old or new. It is NOT atrocity. It is only atrocity when a lull occurs and the attacking troops have consolidated their position, cleaned up all dropped weapons, feel reasonably secure and then killed prisoners As a rule, if you surrender at this time, you will probably survive, but you never do so in live combat.

Israel has been at virtually constant war since 1948. Jews have been at interrupted war since history began. Israel is surrounded by states with belligerent larger populations who have made it obvious that no concession is sufficient, no defeat is final and that they will eventually wear down the small but determined Israeli state, if not from open wear then by subversion and treachery which is always the way of the Arab Muslim.

If Israel were purely a moral society, than no war can be justified and she would have ceased to exist in 1948 as you have to kill to win. Israel practises pragmatic morality which realises that you have to make some concessions because of external threats.

Many call Israel an immoral society With the large number of still alive and reasonably well treated terrorists that they have in custody, the daily atrocities against them, the genocidal rhetoric from almost ALL Muslim sources and the numerous wars provoked by surrounding states, Israel has shown herself to be exceptionally moral, However if you compare her to any one or all of the surrounding Muslim states then Israel comes across as a paragon of morality and worthy of surviving on these grounds alone no matter what she has to do to survive.

As Israel is a moral state she has a right to survive and to take ANY means suitable to defend herself against aggressors. She has shown so much compassion and kindness to her enemies that, with the usual Muslim ethos, they see it as sign of weakness not compassion, which they do not understand unless it be for a fellow Muslim.

So, with Hamas in control in Palestine, Hezbollah rampant in Lebanon and Iran promising to extend its denied holocaust, Israel has a perfect right o do ANYTHING allowed by her law and if this includes shooting traitors then so be it. After all the muslims have waged total against Israel war for 58 years, maybe it is time that she did so as well.

History has forgotten almost all of the, no doubt, very moral Christian communities in the Middle East and across all of North Africa from Egypt to Morocco. They were moral but they were not prepared to do what was necessary to survive. Their relative pacifism was exploited cold-bloodedly by the Muslim armies and they disappeared into obscurity. At least the Jews have learnt the lesson that only winners can dictate ethics and only moral winners can dictate fair terms to losers. The trouble with Israel is that she has been far to magnanimous to an immoral, unscrupulous dishonest enemy.

Perhaps it IS time that she changed and considered total war.As a victor she will always be remembered. As a loser she will never have existed.

I am a strong supporter of Israel's robust attitude to terrorism, and consider the islamist menace to be a significant threat to human rights everywhere it gains meaningful power. I would, however, like readers to consider this analogy. In the 1980s, the UK was subject to violence from IRA scum who were as monstrous as any of the 9/11 bombers: they were simply somewhat less effective at killing people. They neverthless placed large bombs in shopping malls, killing many people. They bombed crowded pubs. They bombed train stations. Do you think there would be peace in Northern Ireland today if Britain had started shelling Ireland for not "handing over" the perpetrators? Or if Britain had shot politicians who made political overtures to the politicial figures who stood alongside the IRA murderers? I don't. This is not a case for appeasement. It is a relevant case study that is worth contemplating.

Obelisk1...for all of their villainy the IRA, provisional or not, only had local and limited aims: the "return" of Northern Ireland to the Eire womb. Certainly there was a desire to punish the "Brits" for their tardiness in doing so, but no really overwhelming view for world conquest and certainly no intention of treating the remainder of the world as second class citizens. All protestants in Eire have the same freedoms(or lack of them if you are not a catholic) as do catholics.

IMO, humble or not, there is no real comparison with the malignantly ulcerating sore that Islam has been to the rest of the world since Muhammad first realised what a good camel he was on.

You are comparing a group with no ethics regarding kafirs whether of the same nationality or not and who even butcher their own but different sects with abandon to a group who even treat their worst enemies with compassion.

With respect, if you consider detonating a bomb in a Manchester shopping mall on a Saturday morning to be "compassion," then we have to disagree. The IRA knew no compassion - grandmothers and children were among their victims. I accept that the scum of the IRA had but local aims - but my comparison was raised in the context of the Israeli situation, not as a comment on the "global war or terrorism." I want to see every potential suicide bomber dead before they detonate, and all parts of their bodies buried in pig entrails... yet I cannot forget that we have been mostly free of sectarian murders in Northern Ireland for some time. I don't think that would be true if Britain had responded as so many of us feel Israel is right to do.

In most cases didn't the IRA call in a warning prior to a bombing, so the area could be evacuated?In contrast Muslims never issue warnings and time attacks to cause maximum death and carnage.As bad as the IRA was I consider people who fly planes into buildings, slaughter children on the first day of school and behead people on the internet about a thousand times worse.

Obelish1...thank you for the reply and my apologies for my opacity as when I said: "with compassion", I meant the British and my sentence therefore made no sense whatsoever, and especially so as it had the middle chopped out of it when it was posted. I should have read it before I left JW but I was too sleepy(very hard work morning).

I agree that the IRA have been very harsh with their own people at times and yes, they have killed not a few innocents although the backlash from their own people forced the warning telephone call(can you still imagine a muslim doing this? A few kafirs less and their 72 virgins could become more and more ugly)

However I do not find any real comparison between a jihadic beheading and an IRA "kneecapping" and the limited aims of the IRA have them totally out of depth by the world claims of the jihadic school of pondscum.

Obelisk1...I meant to add that I was not saying that Israel had to become more direct and reactive to Islamic violence by upping its own return service level, but that it had the RIGHT to do so if it was seen as necessary.

Special-guest “How can a government allow an organization whose stated goal is the destruction of a nation?”

Virtually every country in Western Civilization tolerates the presence of the Islamic menace in its midst and with the same PC-created indifference. As all here know, Islam’s supreme goal is the destruction of not just one but all nations.

This inane tolerance of evil has frozen the thought processes of the elite in all nations. They neither see, hear, or smell the evil of Islam. They cannot relate to the photos of Mr. Zarqawi sawing off Mr. Berg’s head. They cannot picture themselves being chopped up by their friendly Islamic neighbors in the same manner. (Maybe they reason that their friendly Islamic neighbors will be suicide bombers instead and will quickly blow them apart instead – as long as it is quick it will not be so bad; we can “live” with that. )

Certainly Israel is in the greatest near-term danger, but all of Europe and the USA are right behind. As several readers above have noted, the Israelis used to know what to do about the evil in their midst. They should get out their history books and pretty damn quick. And I do not mean biblical history, I mean 1948-1967!

Zathras - great piece. The Israeli newspapers should all put it on page 1.

I am certainly willing to concede that the 'morality' of Al Quaida is somewhat worse than the 'morality' of the IRA... though both have been so montrous, so callous that we are splitting hairs. [IRA pre-bomb evacuations? That was a later PR stunt to appease some of their foolish fundraisers. Try arguing that to the 200 people - including heavily pregnant woman - struck by the Manchester bomb.]

I did not, however, intend a debate about whether one kind of cancer is worse than another: my point was about the response to it. I find myself instinctively inclined to support the Israeli reaction to terrorism - such as shelling "training camps" from where the terrorists attacking. But again, my challenge is this:

Would it have been acceptable for the British Army to shell Irish villages where IRA scum were known to be hiding? I don't think so - so what is the difference? I don't buy that the difference is between the morality of the IRA and the morality of Islamic Jihad. I don't think that is relevant.

Remember Rabbi Cahana? In retrospect he was correct. Now we outlaw Jewish groups that speak the truth and promote patriotism, but allow Arab groups to lie and promulgate traitorous messages, to maintain political correctness. Rather stupid, no?

To all here:

Avigdor Lieberman is my kind of guy! So is Joe Lieberman, and I don't care who knows it!

Fox

Perhaps it IS time that she changed and considered total war.As a victor she will always be remembered. As a loser she will never have existed.
Posted by: Zathras at May 6, 2006 01:10 AM
+++++++++===

Rightly stated.

Israel, PCness will utterly destroy Israel. Fight or die. Do not depend on the US for help until the invaders are over running you because of the USA's own PCness.

God's blessings on Israel and the free nations of the world and God's compassion to those that are subjugated.

The Texican.

I like Joe Lieberman, but he has no real home in the Democratic Party. Send him to Israel, and he'd probably bring some sense into Labor, or maybe Kadima would be a better choice for him. In the meantime, get Avigdor here into the GOP. Posted by: Infidel Pride

Are you talking about the Joe Lieberman who sided with the Bosnian Muslims against the Christian Serbs? The same Bosnian Muslims whose leader was that fanatic Jihadist Alija Itzbegovic, and whose country became and still is a conduit for Jihadi's into Europe.

Can I suggest reading Evan Kohlmann's website [url=http://www.globalterroralert.com/book.html]Global Terror Alert[/url] And his book "Al Qaida's Jihad in Europe.

I have no use at all for Lieberman, he sold out the west, Christendom and Israel to the Muslims once already.

Oops used the wrong code in that link

Global Terror Alert

Pardon me for gloating, but in several posts here at Jihad/Dhimmi Watch, I have strongly supported Avigdor Liberman (BTW: this is the way he spells nis name).

Liberman is a man of principle, especially compared to corrupt dhimmis like current Prime Minister Olmert. I admit, that until a few months ago, I was completely unfamiliar with Liberman until a Palestinian Christian from Jerusalem told me about how bad Olmert was for Jerusalem's Christians while mayor. When I asked her to compare Olmert to Netanyahu, she shook her head and said she didn't trust anyone in Likud, Labor or Kadima.

Then she mentioned Liberman and said that he was one of the few Israeli politicians who understood the difference between Palestinian Christians and the Muslims and could build a alliance between Jews and the Palestinian Christians against the Muslims.

I only hope that Liberman can extend his support past Russian Israelis before Olmert has time to destroy everything. Perhaps Olmert might also fall into this category of traitor.

beagle said:"Only by losing the moral high ground did the United States end WWII."

Sorry but I disagree totally with this statement.
The dropping of the AB on Japan was militarily one of the smartest and most MORAL decisions ever made by a US government.

There were tens of thousand of allied people in japanese hands who would NEVER been allowed to survive if the bombs had not been dropped.

As for the Japanese casualties from the bombs they are NOTHING compared to what would have resulted from invasion..like about 10% to 16%.
If you add the infrastructure devastation (to what was laready present from the air raids), many more japs whould have died of starvation even after the war and the allies would have been far less magnanimous when they found out what had happened to their POWs etc as well as the number of military causalties that they would ahve suffered(estimated as at least 1 million).

If you also understand that military morale in both the USN and those infantry units in the pacific (marine and US Army) was quite low, plus the japanese knew exactly where the allies were going to land you may see the picture.

In Bougainville we had Australian troops slowly pacifying the island after the US had moved to the Philipines. It was a brush war of patrols but when the Abombs were dropped a major attack by the Australinas was about to be started on the main Japanese positions. After the surrender it was found that the japanese in number were 5-10x as numerous as expected and of high quality(Marines etc) the attack would have been a disaster and the japanese knew it as even after the surrender they were so cocksure as they knew how lucky we had been.

The other good thing about the bombs was that we now knew what they could do and that is why we have seen none used on population centres so far.

However this sort of rational thinking does not apply to Muslims.

Zathras:

Israel unfortunately at present has many corrupt people in high official places and was wounded by the actions of Ariel Sharon. I think it is truly a very difficult time for the Israeli people. The current government has to be removed as quickly as possible, ditto the current military leaders.

I cannot speak to Israeli military strategy, but I know that Moshe Arens, a former Defense Minister, recently made a public call to retake Gaza. What Israel needs is more government officials of his caliber.

HaMalach..that is very depressing to hear. For decades Israel has been a bastion of commonsense in dealing with Muslims of any nature and it is a real pity to find that the western dhimmi disease is slowly spreading into the armed forces leadership.

We never expect too much from politicians anymore although Israel has always seemed to find a good one when she needs one but lack of willpower in the armed forces will destroy Israel.

All that we can hope for is that the west will wake up to itself before israel becomes the sacrificial lamb to western abulia.

The survival of Israel has been promised by many European nations. It is a symbol of western unity even without looking at israel's own efforts. If Israel is overwhelmed whether from within or without it will be the harbinger of doom for the whole of the west.

Pravo,
Olmert has been known by many well informed Israelis to be a slimy crook from way back. But somehow none of this matters to Washington. Maybe they like him as a relatively pliable instrument. Maybe George and Condi thinks that he's a swell fellow.

Getting away from relations with the PLO, the Arab states, and the rest of the world, here's an illustration of his crooked, callousness. Several of the parties making up Olmert's coalition campaigned on a platform of social demagoguery, in other words, Let's help the poor, the aged, the women, the children --all that sentimental, sticky stuff-- while overlooking the literal life-and-death questions. Now, the new government took its oath of loyalty last Thursday. On Friday, we found out that the new govt's first act was to reduce the subsidy for bread which would harm precisely those whom the "social agenda" was supposed to help. The Labor, Pensioners' and Shas parties all campaigned on a "social agenda," all complaining that Netanyahu, as Treasury minister under Sharon as PM, had harmed the poor, the elderly, etc. Precisely poor, elderly pensioners are harmed by a rise in the price of bread, and here I'm not getting into "supply side, free market" theory vs the welfare state. Of course, the new govt needs more money since it has to finance more ministries than are really needed. Ministries were divided and new ones created in order to buy off the crooks in the parties that joined Olmert's coalition. Nearly everybody wants to be a minister. Olmert has earned contempt from much of the public, and his govt has just begun.

Pravo, I am not aware of Olmert's policy towards the Christians in Jerusalem while he was mayor. Can you enlighten me on some details?

I called the Knesset today and asked to be connected with Lieberman's office only to be told that there was nobody there. So I called the Yisrael Beitenu office and told the young man who answered that I supported what Mr. Lieberman said. At the very least, those MK's should lose their seats and put on trial!!

Eliyahu,
My only information is from personal conversations with Palestinian Christians from Jerusalem (all of the Israeli citizens) who said that Olmert's land development programs appeared to target Christian owned property for confiscation. They said that because Christians were more economically viable than the the Muslims, the Christians had the more valuable properties.

They don't think Olmert targeted them for religious reasons but simply out of greed. After all, Olmert was always happy to play the host to tour groups of American Evangelicals (and to take their large donations). Meanwhile Olmert's development policies would take these local Christian owned lands while turning a blind eyed to the thousands of Muslim squatters in Jerusalem

By the way, I'd be interested in your read on Liberman and his prospects?

Pravo, re Olmert. Among other things, he is suspected of taking money from developers --when mayor of Yerushalayim-- to allow what in America are called zoning variances. For instance, there was a municpal ordinance against building too high buildings in the center of town [around the meshulash]. Olmert apparently was bribed to allow deviations from the buildings rules for certain builders.

About Liberman, he's not so great either. His performance during the election campaign was deceitful and disastrous, constantly downing Netanyahu and building up himself. He succeeded in enlarging his own party at the Likud's expense while --in effect-- helping Olmert take over the govt. Further, he's accused of groveling before Olmert to get into the govt. However, Olmert treated him with such contempt and offered him so little that he decided to stay out of the govt.

By the way, before the election, it was reported that the state controller was investigating Olmert for law violations, corruption, etc. Indeed, he was involved in the same scandal as Sharon and his son, Omri, who is supposed to go to jail. The state controller's report was supposed to come out after the election. However, since the election I haven't heard anything about the report or the investigation --although maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the press here.

Eliyahu,
Thanks for the clarification, even though it is heartbreaking. It appears that Israel, like other Western nations, has plenty of self-serving politicians but no statesmen at all.

Perhaps you should run for Knesset.

Thanks forthe compliment, Pravo. Raful [former Commander in chief of the IDF, former minister of agriculture, etc] once asked me to get active in his party. Maybe if I had I could have gotten elected to Knesset in 1992, instead of one of the seven mostly yo-yos who ended up being elected with him in that year. He was elected because of his personal reputation for integrity, as well as his positions on issues. People were fed up with the politicians in 1992 too. Well, if I get another chance, I'll remember you.

Raful = General Rafael Eitan, not to be confused with Rafi Eitan, now a minister in Olmert's cabinet as leader of the fake Pensioners' party.

Back to Olmert, among the better informed people here, he is considered more corrupt than others. So how did his party, Qadimah, get almost one-quarter of the votes? People saw Sharon as a father figure and as the man on a white horse, as he had contributed much to protecting and saving the nation in the past, such as in the Yom Kippur War. Olmert was his successor and many of these people transferred their allegiance to him ["This is what Sharon would have wented"]. Of course, the press and electronic media were doing their best to confuse people and keep them ignorant of reality, just as elsewhere. Helping Olmert was part of this. Don't forget, though, that Olmert's party got less than one-fourth of the vote, hardly a mandate to do anything or make any radical change in any direction. Olmert always tries to give the impression of being strong and decisive. Many people admire this, even if the decisions are wrong. His party was made up of splinters from other parties, not only from Likud but from Labor, and Shinu'y. In this election, his party was the biggest splinter.

As to the press, just yesterday two pretty young women came to our door offering us the weekday edition of Yedi`ot Ahronot free for four months. All I had to do was to pay for the Shabbat [weekend] edition. I told them No. But it's free, one of the girls said. Yes, but I don't like Yedi`ot and I don't want paper piling up in my house. But it's free, she said again. But all the news and features, etc. Anyhow, I eventually took my leave from them, but my wife couldn't understand why I had wasted so much time with them.