Scary dark people, scary light ones, and "Jewish" translations

Oh, this is funny. I needed a good laugh this morning. How dumb does this guy think we are? Douglas Feith?! ha ha ha

Robert,

When you get letters like the above one, that means you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

Good grief, Robert, you do get some odd mail.

Apparently, this person mocks you for thinking that "those scary dark people" (sc. jihadists of whatever complexion, light or dark) are out to kill infidels, despite the stream of news indicating precisely the reverse.

As evidence of the inherent pacifism of these people he states that: "You're asking for a war and you're goddam right you're going to get it."

Talk about undermining one's own assertions. Your correspondent is bonkers, stark staring bonkers.

this is the deal. many folks have their story of the world and lash out at a story that contradicts it, no matter how well documented. is mr. feith saying that islam does fulfill the enlightenment vision? no, that can't be it. is he saying that the "problem" is inside our minds? but ... aren't there vast areas of intellectual sterility in the muslim world, with little production of almost anything except resources and violence?

respond with respect to mr. feith. he is beginning a long journey; and would not have written if he didn't seek to change.

Will I debate cab drivers in Cairo?

I debated a Muslim cab driver on the way to the airport in DC. He seemed like a pretty nice guy. I asked him whether he wanted Iran to get nukes. He said, If America has them, why not Iran and the other Muslim nations? Fair is fair! I asked him about jihad. He said jihad is only in 'self-defense'. I didn't press him on 'self-defense'.

Just mentioning this to give you an idea of how a debate with a basically friendly Muslim cab driver might go.

By the way, in D.C. the cab drivers from Dulles are all Muslim. I wonder how this makes Robert feel.

"... would not have written if he didn't seek to change."

my own hopefulness; and silly. we don't write to become muslims, we write to convince and because we perceive truth here.

Benjamin,

It makes me feel just fine.

I recently had an interesting discussion with a Wahhabi cab driver who was certain I was a Muslim. He agreed with me that it was reprehensible that innocent people had been killed in cartoon rage riots. He told me that only the cartoonists should be killed.

Yes, this was in the U.S.

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010402.php

Cordially
Robert Spencer

why so much hate? it seems islam feeds on hate and anger.sorry if that sounds harsh,but i have read the koran and robert's books among others.we can never make peace with anger and hate.again evil is alive in the world and laughing at us.

The Mohammedans have proven themselves for centuries. They continue to show what they're made of. This isn't make believe.

Gee,,smart guy, this Douglas!

How easy is it to be able to pick he is really a muslim?

I dunno,,I just get that feeling!
Sounds like he was pretty desperate also.

Well done Robert!! You have them on the hop!

I'm willing to debate any Muslim cabbie, provided the ejection button is enabled in the back seat.

"until you are able to engage the people who you've made an enemy of in their own language"

And what exactly is the language a brick wall speaks?

Hubris and arrogance seem to be a big part of the problem Muslims have communicating any message. And then they wonder why we don't just shut up and take it like good little dhimmis.

Truly bizzare...

Thank you Robert. The work you and your associates do at this site and in other media is very much appreciated by the ever growing numbers of people who tune in on this side of the debate.

"interesting discussion with a Wahhabi cab driver who was certain I was a Muslim. He agreed with me that it was reprehensible that innocent people had been killed in cartoon rage riots. He told me that only the cartoonists should be killed."
-- from a posting by Robert above

#1. Get into cab. Write down at once the name of the driver, hack license number, and so on.

#2. Look for visible signs of Islam from what is in the cab. Obviously do not take at face value an ostentatiously-displayed crucifix or equally ostentatous American flag (Muslim businesses had them all over the place after 9/11/2001 -- they expected American Infidels to behave as a Muslim population so obviously would; of course it never happened).

#3. Casually start a conversation. Begin with the smallest of small talk. Somehow get around to Islam. Perhaps begin with "that awful Bush" or "that stupid war in Iraq" (that it is a stupid war in Iraq, but not for the reasons usually given, should not matter). Perhaps you are going to an anti-war rally, or coming from one (make it up). Perhaps you have a "good friend who is a Muslim" and "you know, we all have so much in common." Do whatever feels best. Show that you "understand" Islam or perhaps have Muslim brother-in-law (have name ready) or someone in your family is "thinking of converting." Or "I went to my local mosque for an Outreach Night and it was great, I so admire the way everyone prays together" and "you know, there really must be something to a religion that so many people believe in" and "I understand that Islam is for social justice" (fill in whatever nonsense you want, but get that cab driver talking).

#4. Record what he says, as best you can (a small hidden tape-recorder will do, but so will paper and pen).

#5. If statements are made that are at all disturbing, send to FBI. They need not be limited to the subject of Jihad. A friend of mine, picked up at the airport, had a Somali cabdriver who laughingly told him about a another Somali's twenty children by three different wives, all of them in the United States and all of them living on the welfare system (the cabdriver was amused at the joke -- as for him, he only had "eight children" doing the same thing by one of two wives) -- well, the recipient of this information was too astonsihed to note down his name or the cab number. But that kind of information can always be useful. It was financial fraud -- tax evasion -- that finally got Al Capone.

Effect:

Possibly nothing more than to make Muslim cab-drivers more wary, more taciturn, more inhibited about expressing their real views. Possibly, however, much more.

Of course, volunteers can only do so much. One assumes that the FBI has a number of Arabic and Urdu speakers adept at winning confidences and teasing out real views. (In France, Berbers who have their own scores to settle with the Arabs for their imperialism have been employed to good effect.) One assumes.

Sorry - all this makes me do is continue to FAWN.

At least this one was halfway literate for a change! And, more to say = more to laugh at.

Hugh,

I like that idea but there are a couple of different things one could with the information obtained. For maximum impact, it might be better to by-pass the FBI and go public with the information. (If a small number of these guys were caught, they might start to clam up pretty soon when the word gets out that they've got to watch what they say).

How about getting a group of people, split them off individually to collect recordings (and they must be recordings; mere notes won't be enough. Hidden camera with audio would be best). Collect about 1000 or more accounts. Classify them according to different kinds of assertions (e.g., demographic jihad, welfare jihad, opinions on terrorists, etc.). Fully prepare the data for mass public presentation.

With a large sample of responses (over 1000), it would make little difference if they clammed up after the story went public. The cat would be out of the bag. They could not be dismissed as a tiny minority of extremists if a large percentage of 1000 of them were saying the same sorts of things. Then go to the FBI with the information after the public has been informed.

OT

Ronin:

WHAT ABOUT THE CRUSADER STATUE? Sorry to shout (it was really just for emphasis) but I am DYING for one!

Moussoui is not the only one in need of psychotropic medications.
David offers nothing of substance and only indulges himself in attack. HE did not offer to debate Robert, but thinks he should debate muslim cab drivers...if David were not so ill, he would be funny...but it's not polite to laugh at the mentally afflicted...

islam has not been hijacked america has.i wish we could have a march on washington d.c.to show the world not everyone in america is asleep.but alas only evil can generate enough people for a march.i never see a march with great numbers for america or israel.iran wants to wipe a whole country off the map fpr being jewish,they hate our freedom.do we march in the street to show evil we can fight back,no we watch t.v.and go bowling.no wonder they think they will win.god help us

"When was the last time you came to Indonesia to learn a thing or two about non-Arab Islam in the world's largest Muslim country?"

This fellow seems to be suggesting that Indonesian Islam would somehow be reassuring to Western sensibilities. Is he serious? The people of East Timor certainly wanted nothing to do with Indonesian Islam, having suffered for more than twenty years under Islamic domination, murder, theivery and rape. And the Bali bombers put the lie to the image the Indonesian tourist bureau are trying to project to the world. Wasn't it in Indonesia that an explosive device similar to the earlier bombings was recently discovered, suggesting another attack in the offing?

Does Mr. Feith have a better example than Indonesia, so far as a modern, inclusive Moslem state is concerned, that he would like to offer for discussion's sake?

This rant sounds familiar. Is Naseem taking steriods?

Where in Indonesia? What about speaking to Christians (away from government officials) in the Moluccas? Or speaking to Hindus in Bali? Or is that not what the Defender of the Faith quite had in mind?

Gosh, sounds like the former Under Secretary of Defense has now taken a job as a moslem cab driver. What a comedown!

Actually Indonesia is a bit of a paradox so far in the muslim world. Indonesia is one muslim country where the Hindu gods are also worshipped.Muslim conquerers converted a lot of Hindus to Muslim in Indonesia(Incidently,Indonesia has the largest muslim population in the world). But the conquest of the Muslims was not absolute. It is common in Indonesia for a muslim to have a Hindu or Buddhist sounding name. The same is not applicable to Lahore or Egypt. But the rabid wahabihism has reached Indonesia and one whole part of Indonesia is rabid. It was this part that the Tsunami struck killing 2 hundred thousand rabids. (I did not send any donation).

My geography normally isn't bad, but where are the Moluccas?

I know that until some years ago, it looks like Indonesia in some odd ways celebrated its Jahiliya past, but actually worshipping those Hindu gods? Their national airline is Garuda (which is the mythical eagle that was the vehicle of Lord Vishnu), but did/do they actually worship him? In fact, going by a poster on Dhimmiwatch a few days back, the only reason the Hindus at Bali and Lombok have been untouched so far is that the Javanese have been too busy with the Christians to bother about Hindus. I do hope he was right in that the Balinese would respond like the Dayaks did if the Muslims messed with them too much.

However, after the Bali bombings in October 2002, I'd be surprised if it still has any foreign tourists.

The other wierd thing about them is seeing Hindu names on Jihadists e.g. Imam Samudra.

Yeah..like those scarey Aryian-Persians from Iran. This crap (from guys like this writer) is really getting tired.

However, Iran (named in the 1930's to show sympathy with that other hater of Western Civilization (Hitler) is really scarey and we should use lethal force (with extreme prejudice) to stop them from harming the West.

More than 50% of Americans can't trace their ancestry in the USA back before the year 1890 and I'm one of them (mine came in 1910). Our ancestors left places that were infested by control-freaks like the writer of this letter. We should deport these intolerant Islamists from the USA.

Yes it is disturbing Infidelpride to see Hindu names on zombies. Indonesia, unlike other muslim countries like pakistan, did not break down all its temples and churches. They also have statues of Hindu gods intact. Pakistan destroyed all the Hindu temples and statues and buildings immediately upon its birth in 1947. Indonesians did not do that but the wahabism is spreading fast. In India, a majority of muslims used to make graves and mark them like Christians do. They also visited the graves and lighted candles. But I started noticing that they are not doing this now. wahabism does not allow graves, and it is affecting the India muslims now. Conditions are deteriorating rapidly. Earlier, the majority of muslim youths did not wear that weird beard and skull cap. Now, they do. There were protest rallies against cartoons as well. In my city, a lot of these beardos marched in a rally. Man,it was scary to see so many beardos walking on the roads.

correction wahabism does not allow the marking of the graves and lighting candles on them other than the grave of the big mo.

arjun

when you say your city, are you talking Indonesia or India?

Oh damn, it's the "translation" thing again! Only muslims and their unholy texts are consistently mistranslated. MEMRI is not reliable and like Mr. Spencer, "picks and chooses" only the most incendiary rhetoric emanating from that sublime paradise, the muslim world. Poor, pitiful, misunderstood muslims; they just can't win. As soon as they freed themselves from the horrors of Western colonization, they became instant scapegoats for violence, terror, and insanity. What's a poor muslim to do when backed into a corner, other than lash out at his evil oppressors who are waging war against Islam!

Mr. Feith would not have bothered to write his scathing but asinine epistle if he wasn't worried about the positive effects of this website. If it is irrelevant, why waste the time to tell Mr. Spencer not to waste his time? Surely Doug has better things to do.

Mr. Spencer
This is form a Guy who wrote on the commets the other day?
Merry something or other and was probley a guy who was at this past week-end even he said he was a slient mulsum who believed in the qu-ran?

Said there was 3 different kinds of mulsum

1 the silent who see and belive and don't always go through the retuals but know the truth is the qu-ran

2 the ones who go through the retuals who don't know what is in the book

3 the good ones like ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] and others that we see all the time killing others because even killing other mulsums is a good thing because they are living the book??

It is the #1 who are the ones the Germans said are the most danger to us because they hide among us and eat pork and drink beer and lie about what they are about!!

Like the trojan horse the enemy with in??

But to our atvantage even a trojan horse can be defeated if one knows before the army comes out in the night!!!

For remember that horse was built of timber and timber burns!!!

Parnoia is a good thing had the greeks been more paronide they would have looked inside and burned that horse!

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzNjMWFiM2FlYjhiZGIwNjlkMTZmZjhjYzUzZWExMjE=
April 28, 2006, 6:24 a.m.
Not For The Faint of Heart
Robert Spencer asks the hard questions about Islam...and answers them.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), by Robert Spencer (Regnery, 233 pp., $19.95)

It is often said that in order to keep polite company polite, we must refrain from speaking of religion and politics. Yet, the two are not equals in the hierarchy of politesse. Political debate may be unwelcome in many settings, but no one clears the room by observing that the great totalitarian evils of the 20th century, Communism and fascism, were directly responsible for incalculable carnage.

Not so when it comes to religion—or, at least, one particular religion. The past three decades have borne witness to a rising, global tide of terrorist atrocities, wrought by Muslims who proclaim without apology—indeed, with animating pride—that their actions are compelled by Islam. Nonetheless, the quickest ticket to oblivion on PC's pariah express is to suggest that the root cause of Islamic terrorism might be, well, Islam.

That the possibility is utterable at all today owes exclusively to the sheer audacity of Muslim legions, who have rioted globally, on cue, based on what even their exhausted defenders must now concede are trifles (newspaper cartoons and a tall tale of Koran abuse at Guantanamo Bay leap to mind). But the largest obstacle to any examination of creed—larger even than a growing alphabet soup of Muslim interest groups—has been the same Western elites who are the prime targets of jihadist ire. In the most notable instance, President Bush absolved Islam of any culpability even as fires raged at the remains of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. And, although attacks before and after that date have been numerous and widespread, it has become nearly as much an oratorical staple as "My fellow Americans" for U.S. politicians to begin any discussion of our signal national security challenge with the observation that Islam is a "religion of peace"—a religion that has surely been perverted, "hijacked," and otherwise misconstrued by terrorists.

No more, insists Robert Spencer, the intrepid author and analyst behind the Jihad Watch website. Spencer's theory is as logical as it is controversial: when the single common thread that runs through virtually all of the international terrorism of the modern era is that its perpetrators are Muslims, and when the jihadists themselves tell us that their religion is the force that drives them, we should seriously consider the probability that Islam is a causative agent, even the principal causative agent, of their terrorist actions. This he undertakes to do in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)..

One might once have assumed it inarguable that an ideological battle cannot be fought with complete inattention to ideology. But that has been the case with the war on terror, and Spencer's mission is to rectify that with a simple, user-friendly volume that walks the reader through elementary facts about Islam—its tenets, its scriptures, and its history, including most prominently the Koran and the life and deeds of the Prophet Mohammed. It is a tutorial shorn of wishful thinking.

While Spencer does not declare that anyone adhering to Islam is a terrorist waiting to happen, he clearly believes it is a perilous belief system. Make no mistake: This is a disturbing account. And most disturbing is that the truly arresting passages are not the author's contentions and deductions. They are the actual words of Islamic scripture and the accounts of several revered events in Islamic tradition.

The story by which Islam achieves hegemony over much the world and the loyalty of millions of worshippers, very nearly extending its dominion throughout Europe, is a story of military conquest. Mohammed, deemed the final Messenger of Allah—superseding the prophets of the Judeo-Christian tradition, a group in which Muslims include Jesus—was a warrior, in addition to wearing the hats of poet, philosopher, and economist, among others.

The Koran, Spencer argues, does not teach tolerance and peace. At best, he explains, there are isolated sections which urge Muslims to leave unbelievers alone in their errant ways, and which counsel that forced conversion is forbidden. But these must be considered in context with other verses, such as those directing that Mohammed "make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them," and that the faithful "slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them," and so on.

What are we to make of the seeming contradiction? Obviously, self-professed moderate Muslims point often to the benign passages, while terrorists echo the belligerent ones. Who is right? Spencer vigorously contends that the militants have the better of the argument. The Koran, which is not arranged chronologically but according to the length of its chapters (or "suras"), is theologically divided between Mohammed's Meccan and Medinan periods. The former, from the early part of the Prophet's ministry when he was calling inhabitants of Mecca to Islam, are the soothing, poetic verses. The latter, written in Medina after Mohammed was ousted from Mecca, are the more bellicose. The Medinan scriptures come later in time and, sensibly, overrule their predecessors.

This is bracing in at least two ways. First, even if there were a logical counterargument to this (and let us pray that someone comes up with a compelling one soon), it underscores the seeming impossibility of proving wrong those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam. When they claim justification in their religion for merciless attacks and other brutalities (such as beheadings), they are not imagining it out of thin air—it's right there in black-and-white. The reformers may try gamely to minimize or reinterpret, but they cannot make the words go away.

READ THE WHOLE THING

And for the Time traveler May your Grandparents finnaly GET IT!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO GET MEDEVIL ON THESE MULSUM TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
REMEMBER

Luke 22:35
And he said to them when I sent you without moneybag, knapsack and sandals did you lake anything: so they said Nothing then he said to them But now who has a moneybag let him take it and likewise a knapsack and he who has no sword let him sell his garments and buy one

It is truly amazing that Arabic is the one and only language in the world and in history that is incapable of being translated accurately into a target language.

The reason for this is one of the great unanswered conundrums of our times.

Worthy of a PhD dissertation at the very least.

Silvester
Convenient for those who rarely mean what they say anyway.

"whining to no end about how hard it is to be dhimmi."

For you Dougy, it's effortless.

Why do these ranters always presuppose all of the people here have some political or theological agenda? I am non-partisan and unaffiliated, but the IDEOLOGY of the Koran and their founders EXAMPLE concerns me. Just like the Neo Nazi IDEOLOGY does.

And if any translation from Arabic is invalid or somehow missing nuances then a large chunk of self-professed Muslims are in trouble, as they are reading a translation in one form or another.

Oh well, just another example of the mind set we are up against.

Okay I am no expert so I would like a second opinion here, but my understanding of Arabic as a student of Hebrew is that Arabic is a cognate language of Hebrew, sharing many similar root words and grammatical constructs. Some of the great Jewish scholars of the early Middle Ages (called rishonim) lived in Arab-conquered countries like smaller kingdoms in what is now Spain, and based their analyses of primary Jewish religious texts on the work of both Hebrew and Arab grammarians.

So I don't think the "Arabic is such a special language that only Arabs can understand it" will wash. I think more to the point is that Arabs do a lot (a lot lot lot) of lying, so of course one's understanding of what they are saying is on shaky ground. One has to tunnel through innumerable layers of bs to arrive at a tiny bit of truth. And that only perhaps.

MEMRI has my vote. Many Jews have been living alongside of Arabs, unfortunately, for hundreds if not thousands of years, so they get the drift.

to "Douglas Feith," you are the corrupted one, you are the one telling lies about a so called religion of peace. in the West we can read the koran, and know why the islamic terrorist kill both muslims and non muslims. they get their intructions from the koran. you might hoodwink some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time! and to Robert Spencer, my prayers for your continued safety and your hard work is paying off, the muslim and their appologists cannot attack your words.

Oh good grief. If we did watch Arabic TV, would we hear anything else other than “death to Israel, death to America” in Arabic?

I notice he fails to mention debating a Muslim in Pakistan in his plea for non-Arab Islam. Could it be because Pakistan has a law that forbids criticism of mohammed or the koran? It’s somewhat hard to have a debate when the Pakistani police come arrest one debater in the middle of a counterpoint.

"...Indonesia, unlike other muslim countries like pakistan, did not break down all its temples and churches. They also have statues of Hindu gods intact. Pakistan destroyed all the Hindu temples and statues and buildings immediately upon its birth in 1947. Indonesians did not do that but the wahabism is spreading fast..."

yes true, Indonesian people share different cultures and cultures among them, hindu, muslim and christianity. Basically Indonesian people grow in the community where all religions and cultures are respected and tolerated. And much of evidence of Indonesian's ancient history prove such respect and tolerance.

In ancient time many hindu kings and authorities let the muslim missionaries to spread Islam to their people and it happens also the otherwise. The spread of christianity teachings was permissive by many Islamic kingdoms. Religion and ethnic was not the problem in Indonesian culture. They shared peace and harmony among different ethnics, cultures and religions.

Most muslims in Indonesia use hindu-javanese names, which is the basic of Indonesian culture, including muslims. And muslim doesn't worship hindu gods, but the fundamental way of living and values that are followed by almost all indonesian muslim people is not arab cultures, as it hapens in any other muslim countries (even the muslim non-arab countries). Indonesian people use their own. And basically they are 5 main principal in Indonesian value:
1) The faith to God 2) Humanity 3) Unity of all people 4) Democracy 5) Justice for all. And if you think the european invented democracy, I think you can start a new historical research. And this time, try from Indonesia.

But these days, after the collapse of Indonesia's economy, there rises the Islamic fundamentalist movement, anviled by some uneducated religious fanatics and most of them are known as "the habib".

The habibs are some religious leader, comming from Hadramaut, a province in Yemen Arab country. They are trying to influence Indonesia with Islamic fanaticism of Arab value and trying to replace Indonesian's tolerance and democracy system (inherited from their ancestor since hundreds of years), with intolerant Arab Islamic sharia.

These habibs claimed themselves as the descendant of the prophet muhammad and think themselves as holly and the defender of Islam. And they will use whatever way they can to implement sharia and arab values, including brain-washing, bombing, false teaching, spread hatred and fear to other religions, create war between ethnics (inluding provocative teachings to hate the chinese ethnic that resides in Indonesia for hundreds of years and had been part of Indonesian society), killing innocent people, anarchy, and anti-america and anti-western sentiment.

But Indonesian people do not share their thought (these habibs) and are fighting against these evils. Until now, Indonesian people are striving to defend their true value, their true norm, their true etics, inherited from their ancestor: 1) The faith to God 2) Humanity 3) Unity of all people 4) Democracy 5) and Justice for all. And they will defend it even if they have to face the death.

And hopefully, we all now here support Indonesian people in their fighting against these habibs and their folowers. We don't want the largest muslim country in the world turns out against us, they believe to what we believe: democracy and humanity.

And every single day, these religious people pray to God, asking His favor to protect them from the Evil of Habibs, and trying so hard to defend their last wall of democracy and tolerance, so they can live in peace and harmony with christians, muslims, hindus, budhis, even the non-believer, as their ancestor did.

Gangteng

The biggest problem is that Indonesia isn't just any other Islamic country, but it happens to be the country with the largest number of Muslims in the world - a major claim to fame. Somehow, that has to change for Indonesia to stop being such a lucrative targets for Jihadists. Note that Jihadists have targetted the worlds largest Islamic populations wherever it can - Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, and in central Asia, Uzbegistan. Just as in sales, one follows the 80-20 rule (20% of the customers do 80% of the business), similarly, targeting the largest Islamic countries populationwise, authentic Islam just has to take firm control in the top 10 countries in order to consolidate its influence.

It's too late for a fake Islam to stage a comeback in Indonesia. If Indonesia is to be saved and restored its original culture, it needs to revert to Hinduism, accompanied by the freedom of people to also select Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism. I try not to be a Hindutva advocate, but in this case, I don't see the alternative, if an authentic Indonesian culture is to be preserved. It can happen with the 5 religions I have mentioned above; it can't happen with Islam. At least not anymore.