Can you feel the gloom? I can. The President insists that "we are winning the war on terror," but as Americans are becoming more informed about Islam, and about the nature of the global jihad, and with that knowledge comes the realization that in the face of various aspects of this immense, life-and-death challenge, our leaders are responding either improperly or not at all.
Hence the formidable Derbyshire writes this about the Moussaoui sentence at National Review's The Corner:
Does anyone, DOES ANYONE, think we're going to defeat Islamofascism by squirting clouds of this multicultural mush at it? The terrorists sure as hell don't. Does anyone think the enemy gives a fig for our determination not to "focus on hatred, bigotry, and irrationality" (Judge Brinkema). I wonder if you can win a war without deploying hatred. Homer didn't think so.The New York Post described Judge Brinkema's closing remarks as "a tongue lashing." I would say that's about right. They have suicide bombers — and, any day now, nukes which they will use. We have wet tongues.
"When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, naturally they will favor the strong horse."—-Osama bin Laden. Yes, they will. We are doomed, doomed.
Likewise, at the Restoration Weekend in Phoenix not too long ago I was on a panel with Daniel Pipes, Phyllis Chesler and Steven Emerson. The topic we were given was, "Are we winning the war on terror?" All of us said no.
How can this be, when the enemy has nothing approaching our military might? Because far more important in the long run than the jihad of bombs and beheadings is the soft jihad of subversion of the West, which is succeeding magnificently while most citizens of Western countries are completely unaware that it is happening. Those who are unaware of just how bad things have gotten would do well to read David Selbourne's The Losing Battle with Islam. Selbourne, a historian and former Oxford professor, writes with an unusual and refreshing clarity and honesty about the ways in which the West, through short-sightedness, ignorance, and a deeply rooted unwillingness to make hard decisions or face hard facts, has enabled the jihad threat to grow to its present dimensions. And he explains why things are likely only to get worse.
Selbourne details how, "in contrast with Western confusion, indecision, anxieties to avoid offense, and an unstable media feverishness over individual events, a steadier truth is to be found in Islamist declarations that a 'confrontation' is in progress between 'Islam and world infidelity', and that a 'clear crystallization' is taking place between the 'two camps' of Islam and non-Islam." The mujahedin keep pushing that confrontation, while instead of standing up and defending our civilization, heritage, and values, our leaders are doing everything they can to ignore that confrontation and pretend to themselves that as soon as they hit upon the right mix of concessions and fuzzy-focused "anti-terror" and "democratization" initiatives, peace will return.
Selbourne explains why this will never work, and how "the tolerances, moral inertias and hidden sympathies of the corrupted liberal could themselves become liberticidal..." He exposes not only the murderous ideology of the mujahedin, but also the devices they use to further its advance. Enormously helpful are Selbourne's catalogues, such as his list and explanation of twelve common devices of deception -- to wit:
FIRST DEVICE: To appear, in your own interest, to be sympathetically disposed to the non-Islamic world, while continuing covertly to act against it, as by condeming hostilities against it in which you have had, and continue to have, a hand. This device has been best exemplified by the conduct of the Saudi royal household....
He also catalogues "Nine Arguments which have been commonly used to keep at bay 'unwelcome and inconvenient truths' about the Islamic revival and its advance." As one who has been on the receiving end of all nine of these, I highly recommend this catalogue as a useful tool to help anti-jihadists spot such rhetorical tricks and defeat those who use them.
I also highly recommend Selbourne's assessments of why democracy, modernization, and hearts-and-minds initiatives are useless in this struggle, and doomed to failure.
This book makes many points with which I disagree. Selbourne decries the "disproportionately small attention" given to Muslims who "disapprove strongly of Islamism's words and actions," while in my experience there has been disproportionately large amounts of attention given to such people, despite their lack of any significant following in the Islamic world. The emblematic example of this was Kamal Nawash's Free Muslims March Against Terror, which drew international press coverage (including enthusiastic and extensive domestic coverage), an audience for Kamal with Karen Hughes in the State Department -- and all of 25 Muslim marchers. Against enormous odds, Nawash kept laboring; I admire the work of Kamal Nawash and I thank him for his effort. (Kamal Nawash can be reached at www.nawashlaw.com or www.freemuslims.org.)
Much more importantly, although he writes passionately and well about the excesses and enormities of Israel's enemies, Selbourne seems to have bought into the propaganda of Palestinian mujahedin to an alarming degree. He apparently fails fully to realize that Israel faces the same jihad, motivated by the same ideology, as that which the rest of the world faces. He decries Israeli settlements in the West Bank as "illegal" and "a rank injustice," with no attempt whatsoever to understand those settlements in light of the history of Israel's relationships with its hostile neighbors, or in light of larger questions about territorial gains won in wartime and kept for security purposes -- despite the fact that what Israel has done has been done by innumerable states throughout history, including Poland, the Soviet Union and others after World War II, and no one ever uttered a peep of protest.
Despite these undeniable flaws, The Losing Battle with Islam is eminently worth reading -- and eminently worth passing on to the many, many pollyannas among us. It may be that as voices like Selbourne's grow in numbers and intensity, sufficient numbers will awaken to the jihad threat in time to prove him wrong -- in which event no one would be happier than he.
Jeez - more dogs on the fire. Maybe people are waking up.
But not Bush. And yes I'm a Republican.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011323.php#c211644
l dont agree with the assertion of losing the battle
with islam. its very easy to be down and more work at being positive, like Rush says, why are all those books out there about success in various fields.
it going to be an uphill battle against ingnorance of islam, and mostly likely to get worse before it gets better. all humans have a need to be free, and so we will chose the path towards freedom and that will take us away from islam. when one has a choice, they will chose Christianity over Islam and that will take time.
This is a war with two fronts, one military the other civilian. It is on the civilian front that we are losing the war against terror. Islam to many is an issue best swept under the rug using a liberal broom; out of sight, out of mind, and not a problem. Some people need to be reminded that it is unwise to shake hands with the devil.
Being an athiest coming from a sunny muslim family makes me realize how hard the war on Islam is. luckily, i was not born or raised in a Muslim country. nevertheless, believe it or not, i still can't even tell any muslim i know, that i'm a repent, that i'm a person with no faith, i still live life the way i want it though. from my experience,sitting home and hoping things would change won't help, i was hoping, maybe if the west could forge an alliance with those who live a life of secret disbelief in Islam, in order to fight for the right of choice, perhaps things would change. But now that i know how the game is really played, i know it's funny even getting a thought as such, for the following reasons :
1. Sadly, the west is not actually in for human rights, or to fight Islam. Our governments are just there for the Oil, and no western governments(not including nations) would even care whether the daylight human-rights violations in the Muslim world stop or not, as long as Oil flows.
2. Most of the western nations are still deluded, they still buy into the religion of peace nonsense. From my point of view, i don't really think that what Mr Robert said regarding the overwhelmingly growing awarness among western nations about the real Islam is accurate. i don't want to sound like a passimist, but i see it everyday. whenever you tell anyone what islam is really about, they give you the " there are extremist in every religion, it's just about how far you take your faith" crap.
3. Regadless of all what's mentioned before, say the western governments are really in for human rights. we've already accomplished that peaceful ways are out of the question. say you took your armed forces and went for a "war on terror". how could you win a war against fundimentalists who believe death is an honor? you can't just take your army and wipe out whole nations to its last living individual. Even if you actually went along with that madness, you're restrained by the UN and all the human-rights posers who are never heard from until it's a muslim nagging about his "Rights".
I really do believe that there should be new stratigies on how this war should be fought. But i definitly believe it should first start from the inside of the Muslim world, and then supported by the west.Because i think it has been proven: a war that is declared from the outisde without an insider ground, is a war that's not meant to be won, it's a war that's meant to go on, without any benifits but the rich getting richer.
I wonder if Western obliviousness might not be an advantage in some respects. Ultimately, the only influence either Islam or Western liberalism can have is an influence on the ways people think, and it doesn't seem as though Islam is very potent when it comes to changing the way people think.
It claims a few conversions, but other than rare conversions, and (not-so-rare) intimidations, what means does Islam possess to change the world? The West, on the other hand, has a million ways of influencing Muslim thinking--even bin Laden is now relying, apparently, on Western leftists for his self-interpretations.
Perhaps we should find our own imperviousness to Islamic thought more encouraging than otherwise. Maybe we should start to worry if it ever starts making sense to us that the properly-lived life is one lived in complete submission to arbitrary laws that claim to be divine, or that women are part of the private, never of the public world. Maybe there should be something comforting in the blithe self-assurance shown by the Moussaoui jury in attributing his hostility to a rough childhood. Can't the West's refusal to take Islam seriously in its own terms be seen as a sign of the real weakness of Islam?
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim, they may not swing a sword but they send money and condone the same terrorist manifesto, the Arab Koran.
The biggest danger is demographics. Nothing else matters. Weapons will count for nothing in the polling booth.
'IT IS ALWAYS DARKEST BEFORE DAWN.'
Hey you bunch of whingers, get off your knees and start thinking & acting POSITIVELY. Shame on you Robert for encouraging this mood of Pessimism...
I support Israel 100 % because they deal with the reality of a tiny state surrounded by huge populations of hostile Muslims. THEY HAVE SURVIVED not by whining but being a tough,disciplined force despite having their own cranks who also advocate 'liberal peace and interfaith dialogue.'
The West undoubtedly has made huge mistakes in bringing large populations of Muslims into our countries. Some integrate & embrace our lifestyle-the majority remain locked into the Ummah. So what can we do about it?
1]All Muslims required to sign a document declaring their loyalty to particular host country. Any sign of supporting extremism would
lead to instant deportation for them and THEIR FAMILIES.
2]Instead of billions being given to countries such as Egypt & Pakistan- this money should be used for Christian Dawah-remember most of these
people were originally Christians. Bring in brave
South Koreans if you like to spread the Christian
gospel. Also Buddhists, Zorostrians etc should be encouraged even plain old Agnostics, Atheists as long as they don't belong to stone Age Islam.
Rise up from your lethargy Brothers and Sisters.
If Ferdinard & Queen Isabella were able to reconquer the whole of Spain (they did have Inquisition on their side] we can push the Islamic hordes back and convert them.
Get out there
and be firm in your resolve at Christian Dawah.
Fight Fire with Fire-in the end only those with the most Faith & Energy will win.
Morgane,
Pessimism doesn't equal giving up.
I think we are losing.
I won't ever stop fighting.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
We are a feminized society fighting the most macho woman-hating society that ever was. We have got to start fighting and fighting dirty if we are going to win this one, no worrying about feelings and "respect for islam."
This is going to be a very long war, longer than The Cold War (1947-89). We might not win. Not because they are stronger, but because they have the will. I am afraid we do not.
To illustrate this, I know people who do not even know who Moussaoui is, much less that he's in the news.
The great bulk do not get it. Keep sounding the alarm, and prepare. We've got a bit of wet work ahead of us once we come to our senses as a civilization.
Robert from reading some of the hate mail you recieve along with the death threats, l can understand your Pessimism. l am sure you are aware of the Scottish fighter also a Robert, who was hiding out and watched a spider struggle up and down a web and finally made it back, and gave him the will and courage to fight and win his battle over the English. So many people are now struggling over
the information of Islam and cannot understand its alien nature to our WEstern freedoms. l know from my own experience and many others you have made a huge contribution to our education and progress, and it will make a difference. Islam cannot survive as it goes against the grain of human independance and struggles for freedoms.
Time to pick up one's shield and sword and face down these Islamic scum.
God bless the West and its fighting men and women.
Robert
You have done everything possible to alert the world to the dangers of ROP long before most of us noticed the problem. But don't agree we are losing. Yes, war in Iraq is lost but one battle doesn't necessarily decide the eventual outcome of a war. If this was true the allies would have lost in WW2. Or Lepanto,Gates of Vienna or Tours...
Respectfully
Morgane
Robert Spencer is a realist; and until the day that his books, and Jihad Watch, become part of the mainstream rather than marginalized as they continue to be now, he is entitled to take a bleak view of our prospects, and justified in doing so.
"I really do believe that there should be new stratigies on how this war should be fought. But i definitly believe it should first start from the inside of the Muslim world, and then supported by the west."
- from a posting by an ex-Muslim above
Yes. We should have as little to do with the Muslim countries as possible. Only oil and gas need be bought. No immigration to Western countries for Muslims. No "diagogues" that are simply occasions for the presentation of taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, and further inveiglement of naive or unwary non-Muslims. No land invasion, no invasin followed by, or even accompanied by, a "building" or "rebuilding" or Marshall Plan. No Jizyah of foreign aid. No foolish nonsene about merely a "war on terror." No nonsense about "moderate" Muslims managing to "reform Islam" when no one has yet shown convincingly how this can be done without abandoning practically everything that makes Islam Islam, save for the Five Pillars (and the emphasis on the group in the canonical prayers said at the same time every day with other Muslims, and the mass Nuremberg rally of subdued -- or not so subdued -- hysteria, that is the hajj, are two of the Five Pillars that are also dangerous in their effect).
No. The non-Muslim world should attack -- only from the skies -- to prevent any acquisition of major weaponry by any Muslim state or people or group or groupuscule, but otherwise never again waste men, money, materiel, and morale on invading a Muslim state.
Work to divide them, or rather work so that they will divide themselves. The ethnic, sectarian, and economic divisions (the rich Arabs and the poor ones, the rich Muslims, and the poor ones) that divide Sunni and Shi'a, Arab and non-Arab Muslims, oil-rich and oil-poor Muslims, are the three main divisions that if only we butt out, will naturally work their magic.
Identify, and articulate, what it is about Islam that encourages despotism -- the locating of legitimacy not in the will of the people, but in the will of Allah, as expressed in the Qur'an and further supplemented or explained by the Sunnah. The failure to create modern economies, based partly on Muslim inshallah-fatalism, and the traditional disdain for manual and indeed any form of labor by the well-off in Muslim lands, where for centuries it was the Jizyah that helped pay for the state, just as the long tradition of slaves of all kinds, including even or perhaps especially slave-soldiers, preerved the power of the state. Identify, and openly discuss, that inshallah-fatalism. Indentity and opoenly discuss, the treatment of women and especially of non-Muslims under Islam. Identify and discuss the intellectual poverty -- scientific and artistic -- that Islam has encouraged, has even mandated, for at least the last thousand years, by discouraging or punishing free and skeptical inquiry, without which science is impossible, and by preventing as well, as even forbiddding, a great many of the modes of artistic expression. There is some folk music, despite Islam, in Muslim lands, but no great musical tradition. There are some mosques, often based on Byzantine advances (e.g. the squinch), and often having been the product of local, Byzantine or Hindu, craftsmen, and there is Qur'anic calligraphy, nothing much compared to what was produced in East Asia, in China and countries influenced by China. But other than that -- no sculpture (haram), no paintings of living creatures, indeed almost no painting at all. Let the Muslims be made aware of the poverty inflicted on them by Islam itself -- let them be aware, above all, that the world's non-Muslims are keenly aware of the connection between the political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral failures of the Total Regultion of Life that is Islam, and over time -- a long time -- perhaps enough Muslims will either jettison this limiting and grim belief-system, or will find some way to constrain it and keep it constrained, as Ataturk tried to do.
"I really do believe that there should be new stratigies on how this war should be fought. But i definitly believe it should first start from the inside of the Muslim world, and then supported by the west."
- from a posting by an ex-Muslim above
Yes. We should have as little to do with the Muslim countries as possible. Only oil and gas need be bought. No immigration to Western countries for Muslims. No "diagogues" that are simply occasions for the presentation of taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, and further inveiglement of naive or unwary non-Muslims. No land invasion, no invasin followed by, or even accompanied by, a "building" or "rebuilding" or Marshall Plan. No Jizyah of foreign aid. No foolish nonsene about merely a "war on terror." No nonsense about "moderate" Muslims managing to "reform Islam" when no one has yet shown convincingly how this can be done without abandoning practically everything that makes Islam Islam, save for the Five Pillars (and the emphasis on the group in the canonical prayers said at the same time every day with other Muslims, and the mass Nuremberg rally of subdued -- or not so subdued -- hysteria, that is the hajj, are two of the Five Pillars that are also dangerous in their effect).
No. The non-Muslim world should attack -- only from the skies -- to prevent any acquisition of major weaponry by any Muslim state or people or group or groupuscule, but otherwise never again waste men, money, materiel, and morale on invading a Muslim state.
Work to divide them, or rather work so that they will divide themselves. The ethnic, sectarian, and economic divisions (the rich Arabs and the poor ones, the rich Muslims, and the poor ones) that divide Sunni and Shi'a, Arab and non-Arab Muslims, oil-rich and oil-poor Muslims, are the three main divisions that if only we butt out, will naturally work their magic.
Identify, and articulate, what it is about Islam that encourages despotism -- the locating of legitimacy not in the will of the people, but in the will of Allah, as expressed in the Qur'an and further supplemented or explained by the Sunnah. The failure to create modern economies, based partly on Muslim inshallah-fatalism, and the traditional disdain for manual and indeed any form of labor by the well-off in Muslim lands, where for centuries it was the Jizyah that helped pay for the state, just as the long tradition of slaves of all kinds, including even or perhaps especially slave-soldiers, preerved the power of the state. Identify, and openly discuss, that inshallah-fatalism. Indentity and opoenly discuss, the treatment of women and especially of non-Muslims under Islam. Identify and discuss the intellectual poverty -- scientific and artistic -- that Islam has encouraged, has even mandated, for at least the last thousand years, by discouraging or punishing free and skeptical inquiry, without which science is impossible, and by preventing as well, as even forbiddding, a great many of the modes of artistic expression. There is some folk music, despite Islam, in Muslim lands, but no great musical tradition. There are some mosques, often based on Byzantine advances (e.g. the squinch), and often having been the product of local, Byzantine or Hindu, craftsmen, and there is Qur'anic calligraphy, nothing much compared to what was produced in East Asia, in China and countries influenced by China. But other than that -- no sculpture (haram), no paintings of living creatures, indeed almost no painting at all. Let the Muslims be made aware of the poverty inflicted on them by Islam itself -- let them be aware, above all, that the world's non-Muslims are keenly aware of the connection between the political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral failures of the Total Regultion of Life that is Islam, and over time -- a long time -- perhaps enough Muslims will either jettison this limiting and grim belief-system, or will find some way to constrain it and keep it constrained, as Ataturk tried to do.
I have confidence civilization can hold out and win but not in my life time. In a war that started in 622 A.D. can you really by optimistic or pessimistic. Islam has to defeat the world to accomplish that and their flaws will always prevent them from that victory. What worries me is the West and the U.S. might lose many lives and ground before it wakes up and fights back. We can prevent that with action now. The first step is a Patrick Henry or Sam Adams to come along and start screaming and shaking cages. That part has already begun. Brave men and women around the world have started that process already. An example is this site and Mr. Spencer. So I feel confident the West will be saved but in a world of powerful weapons and the lazy nature that has overtaken the West it could mean the loss of thousands if not perhaps dare I say millions before the West saves itself. Anger and self preservation are human instincts that will in the end overcome the pc nonsense and with western technology save the West.
What?? You say the 2nd Step??
The second step is a quick change in leadership!
Perhaps a 12 step program is needed to rid us of this nightmare??
Night_side_eclipse
Two years ago, I declared the 14th June to be International Apostacy Day.
We have a whole month to prepare for this day. Let's have some suggestions as to how we should celebrate this day.
Away ye prophets of doom! Enough ye nay-sayers! Must we keep on predicting our own demise? Say YES to life and NO to death of body or spirit that comes with THEIR triumph. Do you not see? By allowing ourselves to think that THEY can win, we do what THEY want us to do? Face it, it is US and THEM, not only "some of them." They, our enemies, have defined themselves, by their ideology, their scriptures, their actions.
They are deceptive. By allowing us to believe that only "some of them" want to defeat us, we hesitate to do what must be done. An example, the "Iraqi people," so grateful to us for having delivered them from a tyrant, cheer with joy when our soldiers die at the hands of "some of them--the 'insurgents.'" They are all of the same cloth. They are the enemy.
Yes, there were "moderate" Nazis, at least moderate Germans and Austrians, in Nazi Germany and Austria. Did we hesitate to defeat this evil that threatened our liberty because of them? No! We defeated all. We must not hesitate now because there might be "moderates" amongst our enemy.
We have allowed ourselves to follow their program--fatalism. when we accede to the inevitability of their victory, we are doing what they want: "It is written" or "Allah wills it." We need not follow their program. Never mind that we have a President who counts a Bandar Bush amongst his extended family. (Yes, I voted for him too, because the other idiot was more reprehensible.) Ignore that in the US we have a State Department sympathetic, for reasons financial or otherwise, with our enemies.
It is not written--at least not in OUR scriptures--that our fate has been preordained. Take heart, raise the voice, write the words, and when the time comes take harsher measures to assure that we will win, and they will be crushed again and driven to smolder in resentment for millenia in their wastelands.
We have come a long way from that grim day in 2001 when a strike worse than Pearl Harbor sent most of us wondering "why have they done this?" " What have we done to them to merit this?" The answer is "nothing" of course. It is they who were carrying out their plan--set forth in their ideology--one of brigands bent on plunder and rape.
We have made huge advances in this fight against our enemy. No longer is "the religion of peace" commonly accepted because it was mouthed by a President assuring our enemies that they were not the enemy in a mosque. Because of people such as Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald and you others all know who you are, as well as the unafraid authors of books, raising the alarm that this is the same enemy that we of Western civilization fought before, there is an awareness among us of the West--yes even in Europe--that Islam is not what its adherents want us to believe it is.
It is the enemy--not "a miniscule percentage of Moslems" -- determined to subjugate us whether with weapons, words, our laws, and our own gullibility. The enemy has a name, it is an ideology made flesh by its adherents. "Oh no!" too many still exclaim. "It is a religion, how can that be evil?" or the tired old saw about the "fundamentalists--we have those too" and the nauseating "only a few bad apples."
But take heart, never despair, we are making progress, and we will win.
"Night_side_eclipse
Two years ago, I declared the 14th June to be International Apostacy Day.
We have a whole month to prepare for this day. Let's have some suggestions as to how we should celebrate this day." by Voltaire
As American I think we should celebrate the day by dumping boxes of Korans into Boston Harbor (sorry to offend any Brits but you made us who we are!). It shows our distaste for the teachings of Islam and in protest of all the hindus, christians, jews, non-islamic faiths, free loving people, women, painters, singers, poets, dreamers, puppies and in fact the whole non-islamic human race that has been and being attacked, killed, raped, murdered, slaved, and general harmed by muslim jihadist ideals.
Yep that should do it...did I leave anyone out...its such a long list.
"....the meek shall inherit the earth".
At this rate there will be nothing left to inherit!
It's more like "Nice guys finish last!"
This is all too awful to contemplate.
If we don't get more aggressive and united I can't see how we are going to win against these awful people.
If the bloodbath must come, then let's get on with it!
Ronald W. Reagan
"We can not play innocents abroad in a world that is not innocent." Ronald W. Reagan
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall hang separately."-Benjamin Franklin
And while the jihad closes in, GeorgeW is still hiding in his tree house while aides beg him to come down and face reality.
GW:"Don't make me do stuff!"
Anyone see that episode of Family Guy?
A few weeks ago when the Cartoon Controversy was hot, I sent a note to my local Utah news paper, the Ogden Standard Examiner asking why they didn't print any of the cartoons. Back came a form letter saying that publication would be declined. So, I followed up with an explanation of the term Dhimmi and asked them if they were being good Dhimmis or would they consider following the example of the Founding Fathers who gave us, among other things, the First Amendment. Another form letter followed claiming that I had exceeded 250 words. (A lie.) So, I called them up and asked about it. The lady (?) on the other end tried to hang the Bigot label on me at every turn of the conversation. Very PC. Bottom line: This issue will not see the light of day in our main stream media as long as the PC Dhimmis control the gates.
Carolyn2 wrote: "We are a feminized society fighting the most macho woman-hating society that ever was. We have got to start fighting and fighting dirty if we are going to win this one, no worrying about feelings and "respect for islam."
I agree with you completely. Look at Russia which has suffered more terror attacks than any other country, yet still tries to respect the "human rights" of these Chechen murderers. All the Chechens simply see the Russian moderation as weakness.
There was no Chechen Islamic terrorism 65 years ago, because Stalin rounded up virtually the entire Muslim population of the Caucasus and deported them to Siberian and Central Asian concentration camps, killing about a third of their population in the process. Stalin was a genocidal communist tyrant and his Chechen policy may seem heartless, but this was the only time Russia has ever been free from their terrorism.
Stalin's policy against Islamic terror was successful because he was able to respond with terror tactics that surpassed theirs. We need to learn from this.
"He [David Selbourne] decries Israeli settlements in the West Bank as "illegal" and "a rank injustice," with no attempt whatsoever to understand those settlements in light of the history of Israel's relationships with its hostile neighbors, or in light of larger questions about territorial gains won in wartime and kept for security purposes -- despite the fact that what Israel has done has been done by innumerable states throughout history, including Poland, the Soviet Union and others after World War II, and no one ever uttered a peep of protest."
-- from Robert's comments above
Not only the right of any state to retain territory won in a war of defense (see the awarding of the Sudtirol, then 97% German-speaking, to Italy after World War I, as well as all the other examples, after every war in Europe and elsewhere, in which there have been border changes), but also one more thing. That one more thing is the Mandate for Palestine itself. It is very clear. In the vast areas taken from the Ottomans, territories full of minority peoples, some generally located in one place (e.g. the Kurds), others spread out (the Jews, the Armenians), there were to be four states: an Arab state, a Jewish state, an Armenian state, and a Kurdish state. Why these did not all come into being, why there was no Kurdish state, why the Armenian state would not be created except within the totatalitarian grip of the Soviet Union (and only in the last decades has an independent Armenia really come into existence), why the Jews were at every point betrayed by an antisemitic British administration in Mandatory Palestine, why the "Arab state" became another, and another, and another, so that by the end of it all one has 22 different states in the Arab League,is a related matter.
But the Mandate for Palestine is clear. The British were entrusted, by the Mandates Commission of the League of Nations, with carrying out its will - the will of Clemenceau, of Jan Smuts, of other Western leaders. The Mandate for Palestine required of Great Britain as Mandatory Authority, entrusted with the mandate, to encourage Jewish emigration to the mandatory territory, and to "encourage close Jewish settlement on the land." It was understood that the Jews would continue to be free to buy land -- not to be given it, as they were not given anything by either the Arabs, or by the Mandatory Authority. There would be no infringement of the "civil" or "religious" rights of the local non-Jewish communities, and there never was (notice that the word "Arab" was not used in the Mandate's preamble or provisions, for the "communities" were far more various ethnically, and indeed religiously, than would be implied by the word "Arab").
Selbourne should know this history, or learn it, if he is tempted to merely repeat the by-now standard dreamy misinformation that many in England, and many in Europe, seem to think is perfectly acceptable when it comes to the legal, moral, and historic claims of the Jews to Israel. It isn't -- and it never was. See Churchill in Parliament in 1939, denouncing Macdonald's White Paper. Or for that matter, see R. H. S. Crossman, see a thousand other articulate Englishmen, who knew the history, and the behavior of so many in Mandatory Palestine or in Whitehall, those Englishemn who insisted that England as Mandatory Authority should fulfill its solemn commitments, and not do the bidding of (and even at times whipping-up) the Arabs -- such men as Col. Meinertzhagen, Wyndham Deedes, Josiah Wedgewood.
One cannot decry the Greater Jihad and yet overlook the rights of the victim of the Lesser Jihad, the one that until the OPEC trillions came along, and the E.U.'s millions of Muslim immigrants were allowed to settle behind enemy lines, was the main Jihad in town.
No throwing of Israel to the wolves, in the hope that this might sate, rather than whet, the Muslim appetite, is either morally permissible, or geopolitcally sensible.
Perhaps Selbourne simply couldn't bring himself, given the atrocious misreporting on Israel and the Arabs (most of the press and certainly the BBC), to tell at the same time home truths about the Jihad against Israel. Perhaps it was a strategy. If so, it doesn't work. Consistency here about the nature, and scope, and menace, of Jihad is necessary. Israel is an Infidel state. That is impermissible. It hardly matters what its claims may be, or what its armistice lines (up to June 1967) or borders (for that is what is now supposedly being discussed) may be -- in the end, in the Arab and Muslim view, the existence of Israel is intolerable.
That being the case, and the fact of Muslim triumphalism, the sanest thing for Israel to to for itself and for the Western world (which cannot take any more Muslim triumphs anywhere) is to refuse to yield any more. Every yielding in the past has been a disaster for the Israelis. If they are too stupid to see this, we on the outside are not.
I don't think that Robert's books should be the benchmark for whether or not the public is aware of Islam. Given by now at least two opinion polls in the US that shows the negative attitudes towards Islam above 70%, I believe that it's pessimistic to believe that we are actually losing.
First of all, pessimism fuels defeatism, and is almost akin to that infamous inshallah-fatalism that most of us like to mock (although it must be recognized that that is one thing that has worked to our advantage: if the Muslims were everything they are, and didn't have inshallah prescrived in their ideology, they would have had prosperous societies, but also countries that could potentially have become military superpowers on their own efforts, thereby making it a more difficult challenge for infidels). Having a "we will prevail" attitude is essential if we are to prevail. If we went through any war saying "we are losing" instead of "we need to fight harder to win", we would have lost.
So what is the challenge we face? The big one is that although most people have a negative view of Islam and Arabs, they think that the Muslims that are in this country are good people. That is where we have our work cut out for us. To anyone who has the above views, we need to connect the dots so that people, who have the correct ideas about Islam to start with, get to see what Islam advocates, and how it percolates to its practitioners. Once this is done, being anti-Islamic will not be looked at as a marginal opinion.
The next big step is to get this through to our elected representatives. When they are canvassing for our votes, we need to - as many of us as possible - when spelling out our #1 issue - state that Islam is the threat we face. Not just because of terror, but because of the way it's practically eroding our rights - not legislatively or in the courts, but on the ground. Whether it's Islam being taught in schools (violating church/state separation rules), anti-Islamic opinions being censored in papers (like cartoons), random Muslim residents being discovered to be Jihadists, regardless of whether or not they have al Qaeda links, et al. We need to make it clear that if such concerns are unaddressed, we'd either sit it out or vote for fringe parties, but in either case, the party that we normally support stands to lose. This message needs to be spread out over as many House & Senate seats, so that all Congressmen hear this message. Whether they choose to listen to it is their call.
So this is winnable. So don't let anyone tell you we're losing. Not even if we actually are.
To Robert Spencer:
If David Selbourne can't take the five minutes needed to research the (how valid can you get) Jewish claim to Judah and the Shomron (the so-called "west bank") then I don't think much of him as a historian or researcher. In fact, I think very little of him to ignore the alleged "source" of many "Palestinian" claims. Any college freshman with half a brain would research this. In fact, high school kids do. I write this as someone who majored in history in college and was in the honors program. Not that this means anything; however, intellectuals' analyses of "moral failure" etc fail to take into account the millions of people who don't fit into that analytic category and also who don't live their lives by intellectual analysis, but by observation and gut response. Millions of those people in the US (and who knows where else) do not have any moral failure where Islam is concerned and I am sure understand that it represents many bad people with bad ideas.
To Robert Spencer:
If David Selbourne can't take the five minutes needed to research the (how valid can you get) Jewish claim to Judah and the Shomron (the so-called "west bank") then I don't think much of him as a historian or researcher. In fact, I think very little of him to ignore the alleged "source" of many "Palestinian" claims. Any college freshman with half a brain would research this. In fact, high school kids do. I write this as someone who majored in history in college and was in the honors program. Not that this means anything; however, intellectuals' analyses of "moral failure" etc fail to take into account the millions of people who don't fit into that analytic category and also who don't live their lives by intellectual analysis, but by observation and gut response. Millions of those people in the US (and who knows where else) do not have any moral failure where Islam is concerned and I am sure understand that it represents many bad people with bad ideas.
night_side_eclipse said
Undoubtably there are those like yourself who have left Islam, and those who want to "reform" it to something less violent. But the jihadists are the ones with the guns, and they outnumber you 1000's to 1. They are the ones who can point to Qur'anic verses to support their position. They go to the mosque every week and collect funds and listen to firebrand orators; you hide in your house, hoping no-one finds out you've left Islam. Something needs to change in the Islamic nations before any "alliances" will be productive.
Lulu said
That's certainly the belief that I grew up with, too. But there are places on the globe where they have a very different history than ours, different values, and a different religious foundation for their society. I no longer assume that "they" all want the same things "we" do. I have accepted the plurality of cultures in the world. I no longer want or expect to see democracies in every country with a free market and freedom of speech and equal rights for all people. Those are my values, but why assume that it has to be true everywhere? We have so many examples where people are fighting against those values.
The danger is that if we believe that statement, it could make us lazy, since freedom will win out no matter what. I think freedom is very precarious, and needs to be constantly protected. It could disappear anywhere, anytime.
special guest
night_side_eclipse is an atheist, so he isn't a moderate who's trying to re-wire Islam into something that suits him; he's simply rejected it altogether. While the number of moderate is known to be few, what's not known is the number of secret apostates, given the death sentence for apostasy. As a result, nothing can be said about the magnitude of support to be expected from them, at least not until Islam is obliterated in their countries.
We shouldn't think much of moderates. But Apostates is another deal altogether - that includes the Ali Sinas, Wafa Sultans, et al.
Infidel Pride,
I just saw your postings in another thread, but on the same subject of secret apostates. I hope you're right that there is a vast majority of Muslims who will easily give up their beliefs. But we've had many false hopes in the past. For example, the overthrow of Saddam hasn't materialized with the vast majority of "moderates" who are just like us taking over the country from the few "radicals". We'll see what happens in the bigger picture. To repeat myself, I hope you're right.
special guest
Just so that it's clear, I'm not suggesting that any plans be made on any assumptions as to the apostates. Like in any good military planning, make the worst case assumptions about the enemy, and work from there.
I'm with you, Infidel Pride.
The battle ahead will be hard, but no need for pessimism, not yet anyway. La Reconquista was not achieved overnight. Plus, I believe our leaders know the danger we face, they just practice the infidel version of taqqiya. E.g.,
1. Remember the story a few months back when it was discovered that US authorities have secretly scanned mosques and other mo properties for nuclear material,
2. The Australian PM has supported Cardinal Pell and the Danish PM has not backed down. The cartoon jihah has only stiffened his resolve and Islam is mud in Denmark, and
3. Numerous countries have introduced tough new immigration/citizenship laws, France and Germany the latest.
Cheers from Sydney !
Remember
Tours
Lepanto
Vienna
Cronulla
Robert, these are desperate times aren't they? I could see apocalyptic responses happen as we've seen in the past where stories arise of families who wipe themselves out for fear of what their children are going to have to face.
That is over the top for sure but if the threats continue (and they will), then only God knows how matters will culminate.
The Scriptures state that "men's hearts will fail them [for fear]".
I believe that this is that time.
I do not advocate destroying property or causing general mayhem and am a peaceful and law abiding citizen and God forgive me for saying this but, there is a huge mosque in Dublin (sure, aren't they all?) and if was burned to the ground tomorrow, I would invite all my close friends over for a celebration of victory.
We all know of course how many Irish (naive at best) would shame the perpetrators and it would only serve to re-build it and gain more support, all in the name of relativism and "respect".
I can only see this tiny island which was once responsible for rebuilding civilization on the continent after the famine, become like London or Birmingham.
For God's sake, is there any place to live on this earth which hasn't been invaded by these people?
PJ
PJ, Iceland and Finland I believe and there are few mohammedans in South America.
Here is what they did to some Copts right here.
The victims of what is almost certainly Islamic activism, were a Christian Egyptian American man, Hossam Armanious, 37, his wife, Amal Garas, also 37, and their two daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8. Their rotting corpses, soaked in pools of their own blood, were found in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after relatives told police nobody had heard from them in days. A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment. “When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia,” said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore's great-uncle. “The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia's throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.”
According to the New York Post, the police suspect only one motive: “religious hate.” Little wonder. Look into Monica’s eyes and consider the demonic indoctrination and sadistic depravity required to murder and then mutilate this beautiful and precious girl. And while that is difficult, until every American can do this, and come to grips with the motivation for so many murders like this—Islam’s Satanic nature—holding the religion itself accountable for the acts of its most fundamental and jealous adherents, everyone who has died at the hand of a Muslim aboard planes, busses and ships, in hotels, nightclubs, office buildings and schools, will have died in vain. This may be another wake-up call, America. Are you listening, or are you going to push the snooze button on your alarm once again?
Relatives say Hossam Armanious was threatened by Muslims online in a Paltalk chatroom for expressing his beliefs and for airing his concerns over the persecution of Copt Christians by Muslims in Egypt—something the U.S. State Department had confirmed is accurate. While I was not a party to this discussion, and have not seen the death threat Muslims sent to Hossam, I have done five hours of telephone interviews in other Paltalk chatrooms on this subject and I’ve received more than my share of death threats from Muslims—some of which I have posted here for your review.
Investigators said each victim was bound, gagged, stabbed, and slashed in the neck and chest. Sylvia’s wrist was mutilated where she displayed a small Copt cross. This is indicative of an act of Islam. It is an act of terror. Members of Jersey City’s Coptic community—many of whom left Egypt like the Armanious family to escape religious threats—understand the connection between fundamental Islam and the murders of their friends and family. That sentiment was expressed loudly by one parishioner inside who began yelling at Muslims, including a sheik, who attended the service. “Islam is the killer,” he said over and over before he was dragged from the church by five police officers who hustled him into an unmarked police car and quickly drove away. Welcome to America where accountability and truth are now crime.
Please go to prophetofdoom.net to read the full account. They are killing everywhere.
It surprises me that the mo's have the same beards everywhere, in the whole world, you will find all mo's with the same. And the same loose clothes, and, if you get closer,same smell.
Pardon me, not smell, stink
I want to elaborate on what Hugh wrote about the legality of Israeli sovereignty in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. The Mandate for Palestine was enacted in international law concomitantly with the Jewish National Home, which was the aim of the Mandate. This occurred in 1920 at the San Remo Conference, which was followed by League of Nations endorsement in 1922. The UN confirmed the Jewish National Home and the Mandate in 1945 in the UN Charter, article 80. See links below for more detailed treatments.
http://www.acpr.org.il/English-Nativ/02-issue/grief-2.htm
http://www.netanyahu.org/inlawreglano.html
http://www.geocities.com/israelwhitepaper/
The link below contains the San Remo resolution of April 1920, plus other documents.
http://www.therightroadtopeace.com/infocenter/Heb/HowardGriefAttachE.html
Unless the American people in general , and the government in particalar, gives up its policy of stupidity where the Islamic threat is concerned, then we are doomed to lose. Stupidity has been defined as "dumb on purpose". Ignorance can be cured with education but stupidity is fatal.
The government is inordinately proud of its failure to grasp reality. There is just too much info out here, such as Jihad Watch and Middle East Forum among others, to ignore the truth.
If the western mind finds it difficult to comprehend what is behind this Islamic onslaught, so what? Recognize it for what it is: the attempt to destroy our nation and way of life, and to substitute something abhorrent to any civilized people. Don't look to the intellectuals for help. Universities quit teaching logic and ethics so professors can ignore the truth. Not surprisingly, the news media just loves the way they think.
The dimwits of this administration blew their chance after 9/11. Not declaring war on the Jihadists, falling prey to the PC and TC bug in their rhetoric, not securing the borders and allowing OTMs to infiltrate the country, not securing nukes, getting involved in a quagmire in Iraq, taking their eyes off the ball, etc...
I used to think it was too easy and simplistic to think that all they cared about was oil, business and money, but the more I have investigated, sadly, the more it seems a valid description. They are going to give one mealymouthed speech after another and continue to oscillate in their actions until we are hit again, probably worse.
And then, sadly the retaliation is going to be like never before and all hell will break loose, here and abroad.
I could care less if a Repub, a Dem, and Indy or even a damn Green Party candiate is leading us, as long as they stop ignoring the problem, hoping it will go away, and start taking focused actions agains the Jihadists, wherever they may be.
We have not "won," in the legitimate sense of that term, a war since the end of World War II. Something happened to this nation during the WWII period, and it looks like it was the flowering period of a constellation of anti-American ideas whose seeds had been sown in the decades preceding the war. From Korea all the way through to Iraq, we have won not a single conflict, except Granada, which is a little hard to hold up with pride. We do not go to war to win any longer, and we get what we seek.
We no longer declare war. Whenever you do declare war, you NAME the enemy and define your strategy based on who and WHAT that enemy is. Then you commit EVERYTHING to winning that war with the least loss of life and materiel in the shortest possible time. It is WAR, full war, and not modified police actions.
Without doing that, we are shadowboxing with phantoms, no matter how much we might think we are being realistic.
The anti-American Left have no interest in our identifying the enemy. Sadly enough, neither do the supposedly pro-American Right. We all know why.
We know why because we know the enemy to be Islam. Islam explains everything we have been running into because it unites all Muslim factions into active jihadis or passive supporters. And, we have too many clay-footed "leaders" who fear naming Islam because it is a religion along with being a fully Nazi-Communist ideology.
As a result, we are being sacrificed by these "leaders." These leaders allow the bleeding of personnel and materiel to go on in perpetuity and try to make us think that the killing and maiming and siphoning off of our national treasury means that these "leaders" are doing the right thing. Sometimes it resembless psychotics trying to run huge industrial plants.
Recently, I started a terrific book in which the author makes a useful point. There is a world of difference between "desire" and "ambition." Desire is passive, but ambition is active. Our leaders desire victory, but we need real AMBITION if we are to win.
P.J. :
I just finished Cahill’s book on how the Irish saved civilization; a delightful change of pace from the issues of JW. What is particularly impressive is the long history of great Irish women leaders- Queen Medb, Derdriu, Brigid, Dark Eileen, and others.
Where are they now? Is Mary Robinson the best Ireland can do in this generation? The world needs another Queen Medb. She must be there somewhere.
George_Mason and others with similar posts:
The Ukrainians in 2004-05 gave the world a great demonstration of how a deaf and dumb government can be brought down peacefully.
In the 200+ year history of constitutional republican democracy we have arrived at a point where the Constitution no longer can be bent to adequately respond to the menaces facing the nation.
The nation cannot continue to suffer elitist fools and charlatans in its government and survive. When you look at the roster of candidates it is clear that both the 2006 and 2008 elections will result in more of the same – elitists with millions for campaigns but with empty heads on ideas to protect the nation from its enemies. Their heads are instead stuffed with all sorts of liberal goop that blinds them to world reality. They have no concept of their primary mission to defend the nation against all enemies. They regard the oath of office with the same disdain as the pledge of allegiance.
Long range we need an IQ test for all POLS, and a way to get rid of fools immediately upon their demonstration of embedded moronic DNA.
Short range we need to make the present crop in Washington resign in shame for having so exposed the nation to its enemies. I like the Ukrainian approach to getting this job done. Tens of Millions in the street shouting RESIGN! If it worked in the Ukraine, why not here?
I don't think President Bush's lethargic "slow war" is really doing enough to shock and awe the Islamists. This "battle for hearts and minds" seems to only be a race to see who can do more bootlicking for a bunch of ingrates.
I don't consider President Bush to be among the nation's finer military leaders. When the situation requires teeth-gritting resolve, he's smirking and saying "bring it on," celebrating victory before it's achieved.
We need a Roosevelt or a Churchill here. Someone who will wage war, not wage bureaucracy. The enemy need their teeth kicked in, not their hands caressed.
Regarding the whole Israel settlement thing as well as the homicide bombings, I find it ridiculous that Israel has made itself economically dependent upon Palestinians for labour. It reminds me of a Planet of the Apes movie. The Israeli policy of cultivating Palestinians as a labour source is cockily self-destructive. They're just grooming their own assassination. How pathetic.
cactus: "The government is inordinately proud of its failure to grasp reality. There is just too much info out here, such as Jihad Watch and Middle East Forum among others, to ignore the truth."
According to this article by Paul Sperry, "Breaking the Islam Taboo", the Pentagon IS beginning to grasp the truth:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20539
"Now for the first time, a key Pentagon intelligence agency involved in homeland security is delving into Islam's holy texts to answer whether Islam is being radicalized by the terrorists or is already radical.".....
"So far the conclusions of intelligence analysts assigned to the project, who include both private contractors and career military officials, contradict the commonly held notion that Islam is a peaceful religion hijacked or distorted by terrorists. They've found that the terrorists for the most part are following a war-fighting doctrine articulated through Muhammad in the Quran, elaborated on in the hadiths, codified in Islamic or sharia law, and reinforced by recent interpretations or fatwahs."
"Islam is an ideological engine of war (Jihad)," concludes the sensitive Pentagon briefing paper. And "no one is looking for its off switch."
So there IS hope.
Sorry, the correct title of the article is "The Pentagon Breaks the Islam Taboo".
P.J. In my post above I intended to add the following but forgot:
None of those hard-nosed Irish lady leaders, such as Medb, would have ever permitted a mosque in Ireland. How did that happen? Isish Muslims? Good Lord.
Run 'em out! They are a far worse peril than the Orangemen.
Not Isish Muslims, Irish Muslims. Man it chokes me to write it.
Like the cold war, this war could go on for at least one to two generations more. The big determination factor is the global south, which is embracing the Christian faith bigtime. In Africa alone, there are so many people becoming Christian that in some churches, it is standing room only for Bible study. Read today online that up to six million African Muslims are leaving Islam and embracing the Christian faith. Africa alone will determine the future direction of the Christian faith.
In WWII our fathers called the Germans - Krauts and the Japanese - Japs. We call the Muslims - Muslims and Bush even calls them "The Religion of Peace". This could be a fatal difference for us.
Hey Jimmy, about Mary Robinson. Well let's just say that she tends to put her foot in her mouth too much and especially after her comments a few months back about 'stay home mothers' being a waste, or something to that effect, most construe her to be a bit of a butt-head anyway.
The unfortunate thing about the Irish, especially a level-headed Irishman is that he druels out of both sides of his mouth.
Many Irish today are more interested in driving the latest model car because the license plates have the date of registration and if you drive one with an 06 well lawdi-daw (that's not Arabic by the way) to everyone else. The nouveau rich I believe it's called.
In the midst of all this "prosperity" for a select few, they have no time for God, only their villa in Spain. Thus, they don't have the time to worry about the Islamites creeping in.
Then, there are those who want to be tolerant and "christian" about everything and after all, ("it's the same God, right?") so why rock the boat and be uncharitable? That to me is so much sentimental BS. Imagine if it were followers of Jim Jones (for those who are old enough to remember that villain) who marched in. Sooner or later, one must call evil for what it truly is.
Lastly, yes, there are Irish people who have become muslims because of the "brutal nature of the Catholic Church in Ireland and what fiends they all were". The majority are not Irish. They are anything but and have only come to leech off the system while they build their religion into Irish society.
Sorry to be so long winded. It's in the blood.
PJ
PJ Your post is so disheartening. My Great-great left Ireland in 1848 when things were really tough – the potato famine. So the famine is over with and the Black and Tans are gone and Ireland fought its way to freedom and economic success and now its turning it over to the Muzzies?
How can Ireland turn its back on its history? I thought I read a few years ago the kids were being required to learn Gaelic again as well as English, and I thought what a great idea, not to let that language go the way of Latin. I suppose that is gone and now its Arabic.
Queen Medb would have had a word to say about villas in Spain and license plates….
Going back to Robert's post, the present day Ireland you describe does make me pessimistic. As Savage says, we have to defend our borders, language, and culture, or we have no nation. That is a universal human law.
Caroline, thanks for the FrontPage link, that is the best news I've read in a long time.
On the downside, this story was written in December 2005. It mentions:
That's October 2005 when this supposed "major rhetorical shift" took place. We're still getting all in a tizzy every time Bush makes some tiny baby step towards finally naming the enemy. And it has been 5 months since the story was written, and still no major change in strategy. Was their report sh*t-canned?
But on the good side, the report mentions all sorts of good points, including how Zakat funds are used for financial support of the jihad, how the jihad is obligatory for all Muslims, how demographics are used by Muslims to uprise in stages, and how all "unbelievers" are treated as valid military targets by the Qur'an. It's there in the report, now if "someone" would just read the report...
Sanman, as a matter of fact, few Arab workers from the palestinian authority zones are coming to work in the parts of Israel under Israeli govt control. In the first fake uprising by Arabs --which took place with a great deal of complicity by the Western media [and could not have existed otherwise]-- fewer Arabs from Judea, Samaria, and Gaza were hired. They were replaced in some fields by Jews and, especially in construction, by foreign workers --Rumanians especially, who do a good job-- and in agriculture especially by Thais. Employers today don't want to hire somebody who has to be watched on suspicion of terrorist activity. Jewish workers don't want to work with them because they have to watch their backs. There have been several cases of Jewish construction workers who were stabbed to death by Arab co-workers. So the Israeli economy today does not depend on Arab labor, although, to be sure, Arab citizens of Israel are working throughout the country [Arabs own businesses too, including some manufacturing plants]. Relatively few Arab workers from Judea, Samaria, Gaza are allowed into the Israeli-controlled parts of Israel to work.
Mary Robinson is proof that an ambitious woman in politics can be as dangerous as any man.
Hugh points out that a Kurdish state was supposed to be established after WW One. I believe this was according to the Treaty of Sevres, which was never --I believe-- signed by the Ottoman empire or the Turkish Republic. After the treaty of Sevres was not signed, it was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne [I write from memory] which assigned Kurdistan to Iraq, with a provision for autonomy which was not honored. This clause said that if the Iraqi kingdom did not give the Kurds autonomy, then, after 25 years, Kurdistan would be taken from Iraq and allowed to be independent. Of course, all that is forgotten today. The British too forgot it just as they forgot that the Mandate called on the mandatory power, Britain, to foster the Jewish National Home, which was not done. By the way, the 1939 British White Paper for Palestine restricted Jewish immigration to Israel ["Palestine"] to 15,000 per year for the next five years, and after that only with Arab agreement. The White Paper was found to be illegal by the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League of Nations. All this at a time when Jews most needed a refuge. In fact, the 15,000 per year quota was never filled during the Holocaust.
There was supposed to be an Armenian state too in northeastern Anatolia, perhaps with the US as mandatory power, but it was shot down by Western politicians and by the Bolsheviks. The King-Crane Commission sent by Pres. Wilson to investigate conditions for an Armenian protectorate and for the Jewish National Home came up negative on both.
Commission member Charles Crane, the multi-millionaire [in those days] was, by the way, a fanatic Judeophobe and Hitler admirer, later giving money to Haj Amin el-Husseini, mufti of Jerusalem, to use to fight the Jews in Israel. Crane also was the employer of George Antonius author of the "narrative" The Arab Awakening. The book is dedicated to Crane. Antonius is reputed to have been an Arab nationalist, and I suppose he was. But he was also a recipient of the British honorific Commander of the Order of the British Empire [CBE]. However, he resented British officials who had denied his hope to receive the more prestigious decoration, Knight of the Order of St Michael and St George [I believe that is the name].
Dear Infidel pride, and special quest
i hope i made myself very clear. i did not, in any way, suggest that a war should be declared on terms of the one fought in Iraq. Moderate or repent, that's not our case. the case in Iraq is TOTALly different . A buch of Iraqi's who decided it was time to take revange by using us as horses to leave exile.. i can't believe no one saw that coming ! i said it very clear in my comment , A WAR, should start from the inside, and then we can support. a war from a full awarness of the atrocities done in the name of Islam, in their Muslim lands. WE Should NOT take part unless somethign as such starts, i suggested that anything else would be a failure. i think what i was suggesting is try to create such conditions, u know, of a war against Islam inside the muslim lands, led by those who got sick of ' hiding home' . as for me, i don't hide at home, i was born in a free country, and simply just abandoned anything to do with religion since the age of 16. but i do believe it's really hard for those who have to hide it in Muslim lands.
How can Ireland turn its back on its history?
(Well actually after a few weeks ago when we had the 90th anniversary of the Easter uprising, it re-surfaced a lot of patriotic sentiment, so don't worry, the Irish will never turn their backs on their history...not yet anyway! If the truth be known, deep down inside, most of the Irish don't really like the idea of foreigners coming into the country and it would be a long time before they were ever accepted into mainstream society).
I thought I read a few years ago the kids were being required to learn Gaelic again as well as English, and I thought what a great idea, not to let that language go the way of Latin. I suppose that is gone and now its Arabic.
(No, no Arabic right now and again, most of the kids hate learning Irish unless they live in the Irish speaking areas or unless they practice it in the home or unless they want to pursue a government job, otherwise, most would prefer to learn French, Italian or German)
Going back to Robert's post, the present day Ireland you describe does make me pessimistic.
(Well the main reason why Britain has gone the way they have is because nobody there believes in God anymore and football, drink and sex have replaced religion. Ireland has slowly progressed that way way too but their Catholic heritage will always be part of their cultural heritage too, even if they don't go to church anymore)
That's all I better say as I don't want to upset Robert by going off on a different roadblog.
Cheers,
PJ