Just don't call him a Muslim. "Father of US man accused, as ringleader in terrorism plot can’t explain arrest," from AP, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
BUNKIE, Louisiana - The father of a man accused in a terrorism plot to blow up Chicago’s Sears Tower said on Saturday he was at a loss to explain how his son was suspected of leading such a group.“He’s not in his right mind, I’ll tell you that,” Narcisse Batiste, 72, said in an interview at his home here in central Louisiana.
His 32-year-old son, Narseal, and six other men were arrested Thursday in a Miami warehouse. Federal authorities said they had no explosives and lacked adequate funding, with their only link to al-Qaida being an FBI informant fronting as a member of the terrorist group....
Narseal Batiste was accused of being the group’s ringleader, telling the informant that he and his soldiers wanted to attend al-Qaida training and planned a “full ground war” against the United States to “kill all the devils we can,” according to an indictment....
Batiste, a Christian preacher at a nondenominational church, said his son also developed an interest in Islam after studying the Bible for years. The pastor said his son was determined to study the Quran despite his urging to remain with Christianity.
“I didn’t agree with it but he was a man by then and I didn’t think I could argue with him about it,” Batiste said....
Why didn't the press inquire what the revert learned from the Moslem part and the Christian part of his studies? Is there anything here of hate being thicker than love. What part of murdering innocent people did he learn from Jesus and what part did he learn from Mohammed?
I saw the following item on GatewayPundit:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/06/jews-are-infiltrating-al-qaeda.html#comments
That's right, one prominent Islamic terror apologist is blaming the Jews.
According to The Times, Batiste and his group are members of a sect called "Seas of David" which is an off-shoot of "The Moorish Science Temple of America", a cult formed in the early 20th century. The cult's theology appears to be a mish-mash of Christianity, Scientology, Islam and black supremacism - with a fair dose of Freemasonry thrown in. Some interesting facts; the cult spawned "The Nation of Islam" and many followers reverted to orthodox Islam, one of whom (Clement Hampton) became a known Al Quaeda terrorist, Dr Rashid.
Read about it here:
www.rotten.com/library/religion/moorish_science_temple_of_america/
Kate
I'll try that link again!
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/moorish_science_temple_of_america/
Kate
So if someone reads Mein Kampf and subsequently goes out and commits a terrorist atrocity he's not a Neo-Nazi. He's not, because he's not a card-carrying member of the National Socialist Party (which is no longer issuing cards) and perhaps doesn't appreciate the finer points of Party ideology. He's merely someone who's read the book - and probably also read Goldilocks and the Three Bears, too.
I'm glad that's been cleared up.
Actually, would "neo-Muslim" do as a label for these people?
The funny thing is I've never heard of anyone's plotting terrorist atrocities on account of what he'd read in the Critique of Practical Reason. Maybe all books are not the same.
Once again hypocrisy pravails over truth; these people were not muslim, as can be seen by the media refraining from using the terms Islam or muslims, however what they have done is played on the ingnorance of people into leading them to falsely believe that these were muslim:
"Seas of David" face it ,they were christians, however i urge all people to refrain from allowing the actions of a small minority of extremist to stigmatise a whole religion, which on the whole is a religion of peace, excluding the crusades, slave trade, kkk and other white suprmecist, serbian genocide, inquisition ect so please people dont be ignorant:
HAHAHAHAH, i know it must hurt that now christians are accused of the same things as muslims, dont worry the media will not emphasize that they were christians, and this will be brushed under the carpet,
The cult "Seas of David", with it's roots in "The Moorish Science Tremple of America", is neither true Islam nor true Christianity, simply a snake-oil sect borrowing aspects of both, plus elements of freemasonry, voodoo, taoism etc.
HOWEVER.... a break-away group formed "The Nation of Islam", which I doubt anyone would claim to be a Christian group.
AND....... many adherents "reverted" to orthodox Islam.
AND ...... a member, Dr Rashid, is now a known Al Quaeda terrorist.
No, these guys are NOT members of the choir at St. Mary's.
Kate
Kate,
It's all too clear just what they are. But I suspect the MSM will do a bit of meaningless logic-chopping here. After all, the MSM has been doing little else for the past several years.
No, ia786. They told the informant they were muslims. That's all it takes according to you guys, (allah is the only god and mo is his prophet) blah, blah, blah.
Christians? What’s next, copies of the Bible found in the rubble of some building that has been destroyed? It must be bad out there if muslims are disguising themselves as Christians. This incident underlines the tactics now being adopted to distract from the real danger. First it was the evil Jews now its those nasty Christians.
Carolyn,
Oh so that is ia786? Long time no see.
Ronin,
l like your checklist....lol
Wikipedia has a good-sized entry on the Moorish Science Temple of America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America
It includes this link, to a group that claims to be the legitimate modern incarnation of the group:
http://www.motheriscalling.com/newmsta.html
Enjoy.
The affiliation problem
Let’s take a look at two apparently disconnected issues. First, we have the infamous arrests in Toronto on terrorism-related charges. Two statements, which were reproduced here at JW and debated extensively were:
Fast-forward a few weeks; the headline reads:
Police wary as 500 Hells Angels meet in Windsor (ctv.ca). It says:
If the “Hells Angels” were to achieve the status of a religion, would involvement in drugs, weapons and violence-related offences be sanctioned as a cultural traits, worth of being preserved? Would, at that point, become impossible to discern whether or not there is a “common denominator” tying the four arrested in the brawl?
Just wondering…
Roxane, it sure sounds like him. Of course the trolls that post here may have to share the one brain they have.
saladin, Muslim troll: Here are just a few of the differences between the civilized world and your Muslim ummah:
You are completely wrong to pretend these aren't Muslims, or that they aren't inspired by your religion of hatred and intolerance: Islam. But let's play 'pretend' for a moment and say you're correct. This is some crackpot Christian group:
The Christians in America would speak up unambiguosly about their condemnation of their terroristic premise. There wouldn't be any confusion, like that always display by Muslims such as yourself, there wouldn't be that disgusting Muslim "but" clause which litters every Muslim so-called condemnation of terrorism. We wouldn't hear things like: "We condemn all acts of terrorism by any group, but we understand the sentiments of the terrorists. Sears must change her policies, otherwise more of this kind of terrorism is sure to follow. Now give us some money."
Such disengenuous statements are universal from Muslim scum the world over, including you. (** notice your own witch-like cackling at the suffering of non-Muslims, your delight at imagining our demise, and YOUR endless qualifications such as those I describe above ... )
Further ...
Any Christians who behaved like you do in the West -- those who exhibited endless cacklings and hateful commentaries such as your own, or who showed their fangs like you do with your endless glee at human suffering, the same glee exhibited by nearly ALL your fellow Muslims the world over for the sufferings of other people, and for the heinous deaths of other people -- those disgusting persons would be ostracized from the larger Christian and secular community in the West. Islam embraces such filth - in fact, Islam appears to be mainly composed of filth like you.
Finally, if such a group were proven to have some bizarre affiliation with Christianity -- then Muslims would have exactly TWO flimsy examples to point to linking terrorism and their religion: Tim McVeigh, and this group of zany black lunatics. How does that compare with the daily atrocities committed by Muslims wherever they rear their ugly heads in the world? The list is long. Here are a few examples of the nations where Muslims are conducting daily acts of barbarism and terrorism and hatred and intolerance and atrocities against non-Muslims (and Muslims too):
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and HerzegovinaBotswana (166)
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burundi
Cameroon
Canada
Central African Republic
Chad
China
Croatia
Cyprus
Denmark
Djibouti
East Timor (Timor Timur)
Egypt
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Finland
France
Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Italy
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon
Libya
Macedonia
Malawi
Malaysia
Malta
Micronesia
Montenegro
Morocco
Mozambique
Myanmar
Namibia
Netherlands
Niger
Nigeria
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Philippines
Qatar
Russia
Rwanda
Saudi Arabia
Serbia
Sierra Leone
Somalia
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Tajikistan
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara
Yemen
Zimbabwe
Did I leave any out?
I spoke with an Indian friend of mine that recently converted to islam to wed his girl friend on april.
I was shocked that he didnt know anything about the koran before he converted. He said, he attended a weekly islamic conversion course & was tought to pray & recite some arabic sentences. After 2 weeks, his teacher said he was ready to convert.
Here in malaysia, its a law to convert before marrying a muslim. I wonder will he make this mistake if he read the koran cover to cover?
My point is studying the koran has its advantages.
However, Once with a muslim mentality, you tend to think Why Am I this way?
Why, Why Why? & Many people here barely read the koran over 20 pages. As many dont read much books anyway.
Muslims tend to feel hatred the minute they became a muslim because of natural preasure. And they find solutions from their Imam that supports their feeling.
So, the hatred koranic will be accepted with faith as the word of god because their feelings are supported.
Those who are not 'Ape & Swine' minded tend to think & compare. They eventually leave islam.
Now, this is very disturbing as we see the koran empowers people that already have bad intentions & self glorify them with heavenly promises. Coupled & amplified with bad imams, we have an army.
We should tackle this problem from the root of cause. Koran alone does not make problems People do.
Make it mandotary for every new muslim converts to undergo a 3 hour essay & objective exam. This should be set by specialist/phychologist that the outcome could check if the Applicant has hate issues or knows well about the koran.
If he/she passes, then they could convert, else no. It will work if All of you guys focus, nominate & vote for this law/bill.
I'd say this entire incident is symptomatic of a greater problem that I have worried about for some time. I won't even spell it out because it's that obvious.
The United States has got to get a handle on multi-culturalism before it runs us into the ground. We are AMERICANS, folks. That is your first loyalty. Get it through your heads!
Did they swear the shehada [shahada- alt. sp.], the Muslim oath of allegiance to the pedophile "prophet", and Hadith-documented sanctifier of assasinating a women poet who mocked him, Mohammad, or not?
If "yes", they are standard-issue Islamic Imperialists. Puny, but deadly.
If not, they are grubby little al-Qaeda wannabes, the "useful idiots" of Mohammedan expansionism and theocratic despotism, who can be as dangerous as the officially-sanctioned homicidal maniacs of the killer Koran.
In any case, the trial will bring out their exact anarchistic affiliations.
If it walks like a jihadist, quacks like a jihadist, and (tries) to kill like a jihadist, and does it in the name of the Muslim 'holy' war, then quibbling over how many pinheads can dance on an angel is irrelevant. They are jihadists.
I think life imprisonment, in solitary confinement, -as seditionists, saboteurs, spies and terrorists- would be apropos.
With no Korans, no prayer mats, no compasses and no contact with any fellow cell-members of the behind-bars jihad.
Isloate the illness before it spreads any further.
Traitors in time of war should be shot.
I stand by those words.
"if someone reads Mein Kampf and subsequently goes out and commits a terrorist atrocity he's not a Neo-Nazi."
Leftists and Muslims have one particular mantra (among many) in their War of Ideas against anti-Jihadists. You know this one, you've heard it a thousand times I'm sure: "What about that white supremacist Christian Timothy McVeigh?"
These Leftists and Muslims who bring up the silly McVeigh question will take evidence far flimsier than exists with the Miami 7's ties to Islam, to adduce McVeigh's ties to "white supremacists" and to "Christianity".
Now suddenly they would wish to quibble about the Islamic ties of the Miami 7? They can't have it both ways.
(In fact, they can't even have it one way. McVeigh was, by most of the evidence (his own writings before and after imprisonment) an ultra-Leftist agnostic.)
"The United States has got to get a handle on multi-culturalism before it runs us into the ground. We are AMERICANS, folks. That is your first loyalty. Get it through your heads!"
Something happened after the 1950s on the way to 2006 -- it's called The Sixties. It could do things to the minds of millions of Americans, e.g., lead a lieutenant in the US Navy to characterize the American military as "worse than Genghis Khan's army" -- and it could help explain why an American populace suffered the fool who said such a thing and never apologized for it to actually run for President!
"Isolate" ...
('isloate' is only waiting to be a word)
Foehammer-
The execution of such low level guys, at this point, isn't culturally feasible, although it may be ultimately desirable. (To signal the next batch of our understanding of their intentions and the depth of our will.) But, it will take a more serious attack then 9/11 to steel our resolve as a nation to defend ourselves seriously.
Here's a sampling of what is going on in Florida's above-the-table Islam:
http://www.icnef.org/
Listen i understand that this issue is hitting a sore nerve, so finally the worshippers of the bible have been accused of what muslims are being accussed of, well firstly i implore people not to start burning their copies of the bible and i beg gw bUSh not to invade the vatican. we must not let these people who represent the christian faith, allow us to stigmatise christianity, after all with the exception of the crusades, inquisition, 21st century crusade, Hitler, massacre of Bosnians ect christianity is on the whole a religion of peace.
i noticed that something was wrong, when the term islam, islamic, muslim ect was not being used in every sentence(to brainwash people), however what the media have done is manipulated peoples ignorance to decieve them into believing that the jedeo-christian militant extremist were muslims. dont worry the media will not go out of their way to change this, and i think that the identity, beliefs and drive of these people will be pushed under the carpet, leaving people to use their limited imaginations to paint a picture of radical muslims.
hahahahahahahahahahah. u lot can deny, all u want but they were christians and thats the bottom line coz reality said so11111111
jsla--I think the Christian reaction to terrorists in their midst is called excommunication. It's a decision by a body of elders who say that the person so treated shows an unrepentent cherishing of some sinful behaviour which casts doubt on his truly being part of the body of Christ.
My heart goes out to Batiste Sr. on this one. Could it be that his son may have wanted to embarrass his father, in addition to striking out at "the devils"?
Sorry to dissent from the prevailing opinion here, but these fellows seem to belong to a garden-variety, syncretic "cult"--or whatever you want to call it--inspired by Islam and al-Qaeda. Their background--the Caribbean--is loaded with syncretic beliefs. Islam may have provided the violent, political edge that historic Caribbean faiths do not have.
What this episode shows is the power of jihad ideology to recruit and rally the disaffected, the estranged, the malcontent and the lumpen in the West, and to provide them with a vehicle for action against the "oppressors," which neither Christianity nor voodoo prescribe.
Putting these guys in the same pot with Islamic jihadis can only obscure the nature of Islam.
My two-cent-worth of wisdom is that these guys' main beef is race. Not religion.
van der ley: "If the “Hells Angels” were to achieve the status of a religion, would involvement in drugs, weapons and violence-related offences be sanctioned as a cultural traits, worth of being preserved?"
I think the answer to that question is probably yes. Which raises the issue, what exactly constitutes a "religion" anyway? I've seen a number of posters here seemingly facetiously suggest in the past that they were going to start a new religion (fight fire with fire as it were) but the truth is, that I think they've got a really good point. Muslims are able to cloak their political agenda behind the facade of a "religion", and they are able to demand all manner of respect while doing so, claim tax-exempt status as they preach sedition in their mosques, etc etc. . Given that they’re able to pull off this massive scam (started by their prophet), it really is quite a legitimate question to raise, i.e., what actually constitutes a religion? Does one merely require a certain number of people to endorse one as a prophet who has received a direct revelation from God? And how large a number of people would that have to be? Inquiring minds want to knw.
Koran-worshipping troll:
"...Narseal Batiste was accused of being the group’s ringleader, telling the informant that he and his soldiers wanted to attend al-Qaida training and planned a “full ground war” against the United States to “kill all the devils we can,” according to an indictment....
Batiste, a Christian preacher at a nondenominational church, said his son also developed an interest in Islam after studying the Bible for years. The pastor said his son was determined to study the Quran despite his urging to remain with Christianity..."
Why don't you welcome these 'new' muslims in the proper mohammedan fashion? Is it because your murderous cult requires that you lie and deceive infidels? These guys clearly rely on you dirty book, the Koran, for inspiration.
They are Islamic martyr's, heroes! Allahbubusnackbar!
Just ignore Salahudin. He's just one more brain-damaged Muslim who himself could just as easily take part in a future "terrorist" attack as any other of the millions of others like him. His relish at stating falsehoods in order to try to justify his own sad cult's long history of violence smells of the same kind of mentality one might find at a football game after too many beers.
Muslims are able to cloak their political agenda behind the facade of a "religion"
Problem is, unlike the artificial impromptu "religions" semi-facetiously proposed for rhetorical purposes by some here, Islam has three features no artificial impromptu religion can have:
1) time
2) size
3) complexity.
#1: Islam is approximately 1,370 years old. This endows it with a penumbra of authenticity.
#2: Islam has millions and millions of followers. No "cult" in world history has ever had that kind of membership.
#3: Islam has a complexity & diversity (informed in great part by #1 and #2) that similarly endows it with a penumbra of an entity that, supposedly, cannot be (even by Spencer & Hugh!) reduced to a simplex res damnanda.
Instead of futzing about with the hopeless question of whether or not Islam is a religion, I suggest to the Jihad Watchers who want to strip it of that label a far simpler solution:
Islam is an evil religion.
There, that was easy, wasn't it?
I mean, think of it: if millions of Western Leftists can find it so easy to condemn at least two religions -- Christianity and Judaism -- surely it is not the label of "religion" that is getting in the way of their condemning Islam.
TV - I suppose you might have added a 4th feature which might explain #'s 1 and 2 (time and size) - and which would surely doom any current facetious proposals to start a new "religion" to utter and complete abject failure in comparison to Islam - namely - a ruthless willingness to take up the sword in order to force people to accept the darned cult as a legitimate, bona fide religion.
(BTW - I appreciate your response on the buried thread and I did reply.)
"Putting these guys in the same pot with Islamic jihadis can only obscure the nature of Islam."
Not necessarily; it could also illuminate the nature of Islam as that vast repository of tenets bound by a supremacist expansionist ideology that is showing incipient, disturbing signs becoming the quintessential inspirational vehicle for most Misoccidentalists (West-haters).
Ronin:
My friend that converted said he felt like to top of the world when he said the shahada.
Upon some questioning of his islamic knowledge, he was taken off that I knew better than him about the koran. He admitted that he was not tought the proper basics.
And when I said these very people were ploting to destroy the hindu temples, he just coudnt take it. His face showed the guilt of making a quick decision because of a girl.
Many people are not aware of the contents of the koran. They are even lost when mohammad said humiliating things about non arabs, about black skinned people & slaves.
So, bottom line, they were cheated to convert to islam.
How can they do such things, why, because those poor guys dont read jihadwatch.org
TV:
Islam is a Arabs guide for world conquest. It was never a religion. Well, Evil religion makes sense too.
They weren't trying to hook up with Oral Roberts and get training, were they? They didn't contact their local Baptist church and ask for vehicles, weapons and supplies. This is just another example of blck racism with a Mohammedean twist. Maybe if they had studied the Quran and Hadith they would realize that Mohammed not only owned black slaves, but that blacks are still called "abeed" today in Arabic, meaning both "black" and "slave". Mohammed even said that Satan looked like one of his black slaves. Maybe that would have colored their perception of old Mo's teachings.
Caroline, I have yet another response on that buried thread that just won't die.
TV - I'm one step ahead of you (and thanks to Eisenhund I now know how to link directly):
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011937.php#c234856
Panem et circenses: now that some unpleasantries are out of the way (namely, the not so impressive 1 x 0 victory of Portugal over the Dutch - ah, the bygone days of the Clockwork Orange...), I want to pick up were I left...
Caroline:
You actually brought my comment one (or more!) notches higher by bringing up the question "what actually constitutes a religion?" (and kudos to TV on the thinking-on-your-feet analysis). I just thought I should add my 2 cents, since, inadvertently, I brought it up.
As I stated in some thread of yore here at JW, I am a Sam Harris fan AND I do identify with Fallaci's "Christian Atheist" description. I think it is important to state that, so that no question remains on where I personally stand on the issue of "faith". This is important to state, because if there ever is a bias on whatever I state (as much as I try to control it...), at least it is known from where it is coming from.
It is possible that one of the most significant problems that philosophy of religion deals with (at least in the Monotheist tradition) is on the nature of what is revered – or how to describe the “Supreme Being” – and, subsequently, providing supporting evidence that such a being exists, and is worthy of being revered. I see “religion” under that perspective: if I religiously need to watch the soccer matches on TV, it is clear that the object of my reverence, in this instance, is football (the game, not the round leathery ball), and that the 22 sweaty guys running 90 minutes are some kind of high priests, and the dopamine-mediated experience I have from watching the match is a religious experience. As an extension, the selfless sacrifice of the Christ on the cross, perpetuated on the Mass as a sign of hope for the afterlife, and the self-immolating suicide-bomber at a bus station who’s hoping to be rewarded with 72 virgins, are both religious expressions which, on the purely philosophical sense, might even be equivalent (someone help me here; I maybe really off track, so spare the messenger…). What is not equivalent is the moral content of both actions: the message of Christ is a message of hope and wholesome goodness, as witnessed by his actions. Mo, on the other hand…
(afterthought: the 72 virgins thing always got me wondering… I therefore present you with the Muslim Martyr Paradox: If you give your life for Allah, you go to heaven and get your virgins; but if you have your way with them, they are virgins no more,you’re your reward is gone… you may fill in the blanks)
They are Muslims when they don't embarrass the leadership, when they do cause embarrassment they are dropped like hot bricks.
Should someone actually succeed in creating an insurgency situation in the US groups like CAIR would then treat those people like absolute heroes.
You would soon see CAIR drop it's thin veneer of respectability.
I stretched the term respectability to it's limit, did anyone notice that?
From tjork above:
"..Islam is a Arabs guide for world conquest..."
Indeed it is.
" It was never a religion. Well, Evil religion makes sense too..."
If you believe that religion has to be something 'good, ' or a way into the spiritual world, or for lifting your soul or many other things like that, then Islam may not be acceptable as a religion when compared with Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity.
But you answered your own question: "Evil religion makes sense too".
Thats right: The Aztecs where ripping out hearts from their victims in the hundreds if not thousands, they believed in some kind of religion, and there were many tribes that practiced cannibalism as a religion...
So yes: To qualify being a religion Islam doesn't necessarily have to be 'good', but its still puzzling that our society has forgotten that we have been fighting our Mohammedan enemies for 1400 years and to allow them now to settle among us in large numbers, which is dangerous, irresponsible and very costly ...
Right on the dot brother sheik.
Also, sometimes I Feel the muslims are explaining half the facts of Islam which is wrong.
Every muslim claims that Islam is a religion of peace..
.. I Agree, but they missed out - .. for the muslims only.
Hence, the right way to say is:
"Islam is a religion of peace for the muslims"
Hence, the right way to say is:
"Islam is a religion of peace for the muslims"
Since Muslims are, in Islam, the only humans who count, then that qualification of theirs is perfectly logical.
Television, since Shia, Sunni and Sufi are still killing each other I find it hard to qualify Islam as a "peaceful" religion even among other Muslims.
I wanted to say something that has not been said. After watching recritment videos and the like. It is very likely these gys were performing Da'Wa. That is speaking to the christian aspects of Islam to entice Christians to the faith, and then telling Christians they have the trth of christ, blah blah blah. So it is very likely they stdy the bible, etc. As a means to an end. As a means to an end.
Television:
'"Putting these guys in the same pot with Islamic jihadis can only obscure the nature of Islam."
Not necessarily; it could also illuminate the nature of Islam as that vast repository of tenets bound by a supremacist expansionist ideology that is showing incipient, disturbing signs becoming the quintessential inspirational vehicle for most Misoccidentalists (West-haters).'
I love the way you pile up adjectives/qualifiers.
They've made my rain-soaked evening.
Still, since I'm watching a new Miss Marple on TV, I insist on dicerning finer distinctions. I/we owe her that, and much more.
With great respect,
ovidius
"Islam is a religion of peace for the muslims"
Since Muslims are, in Islam, the only humans who count, then that qualification of theirs is perfectly logical.
Posted by: Television
Right.
But you might add that 'peace' , the Mohammedan concept of it, only comes after they made 'great slaughter in the land' and only when all infidels & Jews & polytheists are dead, enslaved or forcibly perverted to Islam. But even then the killing will continue, because there are always some who are not in line 100%, like the Shiites or the Ahamadyija or the Sufi's...
Mohammeds invention, the great Allahballahwallah, is a bloody monster and demands a daily feed of atrocities and genocide...
Yes folks: We are at war, the biggest, longest, worst and most awful war humanity has to fight. And the most infuriating thing is that our leadership is trying to pull the wool over our eyes and ears....
This is simply a case of " the enemy of my enemy is my friend" for what ever reason the jewdeo christian extremist found that they wanted to go to war with the abusers of their ancestors and current social oppressors. the link with al qaeda is simply trying to forge links to gain infamy, my personal opinion is they were in it for the money, they watched sleeper cell saw Farik driving a nice saab converatble and thought thats how it really is,
Bohemond, the mutual slaughters of Shiites and Sunnis still follows the impeccable logic of Islam: each one considers the other to be not Muslim -- therefore a mortal enemy threatening (the "true") Islam.
salad-bowl-
So it's all a Saab story, eh?
__________________________________________________
As we see in the al-Qur'an, Chapter 53 "The Star" (An-Najm), sura 43:
"It is He who makes men laugh and shed tears."
Ain't it the truth... since I've always said:
"The Koran... read it and weep."
"The pastor said his son was determined to study the Quran despite his urging to remain with Christianity."
Well, it's obvious he wasn't seeking to convert to Jainism, that's for sure.
salahudin?
Can you not use your own words to describe your plight? Friday night I used that quote the enemy of my enemy is my friend. How do you expect us to take you seriously if you can’t even think for yourself? Come up with an original idea or go back to nursery school.
McVeigh, McVeigh, McVeigh,
Fastest man in the history of modern law to be executed. Why? Why the rush. And what about that dark skinned foreigner in the area. I have always wondered, did McVeigh spend any time with mos? Or for that matter, how much time did Hitler spend with young Turkish lads on the western front. I wonder?
Nariz,
McVeigh's own writings, including the significant "testament" and poem he wished to be his last word before dying, have from what I have read, none of the usual ultra-right and neo-nazi language. My inclusion of his agnosticism only partially buttresses my claim, since certainly there are neo-nazi types who are not evangelical types -- though most of them usually like to pepper their diatribes with pagan religious mythology: again, nothing of that in McVeigh's own writings. The only evidence people (usually Leftists and Muslims) adduce to "prove" that McVeigh was an ultra-right and neo-nazi type is guilt by association.
On the other hand, the sentiments McVeigh expressed in his own writings repeatedly mentioned his tender sympathies for the poor Iraqi people and the evil American government (Republican at the time -- Bush Senior) that was "oppressing" them. This kind of sentiment sounds decidedly Leftist to me. Taken to the extreme of mass-murder, it then becomes ultra-Leftist.
Ultimately, when you trace the entelechy of an ultra-right-wing nut and an ultra-left-wing nut, they meet at a certain polar extreme that basically unites around the common ground of a Gnostic antipathy against cosmic structures personified in Government, Nation-States, Corporate Globalism, and on to less savory bogeymen like the some cabal at the heart of the Catholic Church -- the "Illuminati" -- and some cabal of "Masons" and "Jews", etc. All these "evil" forces seem to share the provenance of the West. Since Islam shares this Gnostic antipathy on most levels, the confluences that could forge a potential "Axis of Red-Brown-Green" as Alexandre Del Valle has termed it, are logical.
(Meanwhile, I hope Jayna Davis finds a smoking gun to connect McVeigh to specific Muslim co-conspirators.)
Specific?
And would you give me a reason why we must be specific when dealing with our childrens welfare. How about you expect the ultimate proof for your own life and spare the rest of us the agony. I will trade you for my child in an instant. Wake up fool.
Posted by: salahudin [TypeKey Profile Page] at June 25, 2006 02:19 PM
salahudin,
Did it ever occur to you to ask why these men did not plot terrorist acts until they had been exposed to the Koran and Islamic ideology?
Koran, 16:26. "Those before them indeed plotted, but Allah struck at the foundation of their building, and then the roof fell down upon them, from above them, and the torment overtook them from directions they did not perceive."
Perhaps you could explain how swearing an oath to al-Qaeda is a part of Christian teachings.
And why would they talk about punishing American "devils", when the vast majority of Americans (about 80-85%) are Christians?
In the New Testament Gospels, Christ explictly forbids his followers to use violence in the name of religion. On the other hand, Islam in the Koran and Hadith explicitly requires jihad, including the willingness to kill and be killed in Allah's cause, as a test of Muslims' faith (and to fight mischief---disbelief/opposition to Islam). See 4:66-77, 47:4, 47:31, 3:140-145, 9:111, 5:32-33, 2:251, etc.
Your ignorance of both Islam and Christianity is exposed with your citation of the "Sea of David" title as somehow specific to Judeo-Christianity. Read your Koran. Look for David or "Dawud". You will find that David is mentioned in the context of Allah using the believers to check the mischief of the disbelievers. That is, Allah authorizes Muslims to use force, including lethal force, in world, to check the mischief of the disbelievers.
2:251. “So they routed them by Allah's Leave and Dawud (David) killed Jalut (Goliath), and Allah gave him [Dawud (David)] the kingdom [after the death of Talut (Saul) and Samuel] and Al-Hikmah (Prophethood) and taught him of that which He willed. And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allah is full of Bounty to the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).”
Ibn Abbas 2:251
"(So they routed them by Allah's leave) by Allah's help (and David) the Prophet (slew Goliath) the unbeliever; (and Allah gave him the kingdom) Allah gave David sovereignty over the Children of Israel (and wisdom) understanding and prophethood, (and taught him of that which He willeths) i.e. how to make armour. (And if Allah had not repelled some men by others) as He repelled through David the evil of Goliath from the Children of Israel (the earth would have been corrupted) He says: Allah repelled from the believers, by means of the prophets, the evil of their enemies, and He repelled from those who refrained from participating in the fight for Allah's sake, by means of those who fought in His sake, the evil of their enemies. If it were not thus, the earth would have been corrupted. (But Allah is a Lord of Kindness to all the worlds) by this repelling."
Al-Jalalayn, 2:251
"And they routed, they broke, them, by the leave of God, by His will, and David, who was among the ranks of Saul's army, slew Goliath; and God gave him, David, the kingship, over the Children of Israel, and Wisdom, prophethood after the death of Samuel and Saul, and the combination [of kingship and prophethood] had never come to anyone before him; and He taught him such as He willed, of the manufacture of mail-coats and the speech of birds. Had God not repelled people some (ba'dahum, 'some', substitutes for [saying] ba'dan min al-nās, 'some people') by means of others the earth would have surely been corrupted, with idolaters defeating and slaying Muslims, and mosques being destroyed; but God is bounteous to all worlds, by repelling some by means of others."
22:41. “Those (Muslim rulers) who, if We give them power in the land, (they) order for Iqamat-as-Salat. [i.e. to perform the five compulsory congregational Salat (prayers) (the males in mosques)], to pay the Zakat and they enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism and all that Islam has forbidden) [i.e. they make the Qur'an as the law of their country in all the spheres of life]. And with Allah rests the end of (all) matters (of creatures). 22:42. And if they belie you (O Muhammad SAW), so were belied the Prophets before them, (by) the people of Nuh (Noah), 'Ad and Thamud, 22:43. And the people of Ibrahim (Abraham) and the people of Lout (Lot), 22:44. And the dwellers of Madyan (Midian); and belied was Musa (Moses), but I granted respite to the disbelievers for a while, then I seized them, and how (terrible) was My Punishment (against their wrong-doing). 22:45. And many a township have We destroyed while it was given to wrong-doing, so that it lies in ruins (up to this day), and (many) a deserted well and lofty castles!”
Ibn Abbas, 22:45. “(How many a township) how many population of townships (have We destroyed) with chastisement (while it was sinful) while their populations were idolaters and disbelievers, (so that it lieth (to this day) in) so they remain demolished until today, (and (how many) a deserted well) and how many wells have been destroyed by their owners such that no one uses them anymore (and lofty tower!) and how many massive towers which exist but which are uninhabited!”
Al-Jalalayn, 22:45. “How many a town I have destroyed (ahlaktuhā, a variant reading has ahlaknāhā, 'We have destroyed', while it was doing wrong, that is, while its inhabitants were [doing wrong] by being disbelievers, but now it lies fallen down, collapsed, on its roofs and, how many, a neglected well, abandoned because of the death of its owners, and a lofty palace, stands empty because of the death of its residents.”
Alarmed Pig Farmer,
LOL. That was good. :)
After listening to the parents, relatives and friends of the "suspected terrorists" one could conclude these guys are not the smartest kids on the block.
But just as a side note "kill the devils" is a term often used by the Black Panther Party of the 60's and referred to "kill whitey".
Could it be these guys idolized the Muslim way of violence in such a way as to promote a race war??/
Just a thought.
I wonder how the islamosphere would react to a live, televised airing of a copy of the "Glorious Kuran" being shoved up the arse of one or more of these terrorists?
Wouldn't CAIR love THAT!!!!
To those in the UK, theres a programme on BBC 2 about the Vietnam war, napalm burning childrens skins, Americans being brainwashed into believing their the greatest nation and invincible, Americans blindly following their governments. u would think the Americanist Extremist would have learnt from that carnage.
OHHH Yeah they did, they now moderate what the media can show and use them as a propaganda tool, concentrating solely on the deaths caused by the terrorist and freedom fighters.