CAIR defends Hamas terrorists

What do you expect? They ARE Muslims also and bull effluent is thicker than water.

It is in reality just another example of the worldwide conspiracy from the Elders of Muttalib where hypocrisy is endemic and falsehood knows no bounds and infidel beware!!

A good clean up

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3268844,00.html

"A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today said Israel's targeting of the Palestinian civilian infrastructure is a "war crime" that should be condemned by the Bush administration."

We want to conduct our jihad with the comfort of air - conditioners. Do not blow up the power stations.

"In any actions the government of Israel may undertake, the United States urges that it ensures that innocent civilians are not harmed, and also that it avoid the unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure."

White House Spokesman.

We are fed up with palestinian scum. Destroy all that is necessary. Spare what you see fit.

It is amazing just how the israeli sense of "decapitation" compares with that of the Muslims(NOT palestinians...no such creature). It makes you wonder if there is such a thing as a metaphor in Arabic, or does their atavistic barbarism extend to their language also?

When CAIR first came on the scene, they were welcome at White House functions and the like. Have they been removed from those lists, are they still welcome in some Senate- and House-related functions, or what?

Their lack of concern for non-Muslim civilians--the fact of what the Islamic Brotherhood is and what these people are--should be understood.

Let's put aside our rage for a second and all the venom that could be expressed against CAIR, and consider the right action.

The law of Islam is not compatible with the Constitution or with prosperity; and as Hugh and others often point out, the new Muslim immigrants--especially those prominent in sharia political groups--had to have lied on their applications for citizenship.

Given the statements and omissions of the CAIRites, isn't the truth provable? Few people more than CAIR leaders so richly deserve to be stripped of their citizenship.

Imagine a legal challenge to their status as Americans, and their deportation. "We will be back," they'll say; but they won't. They will have been neutered. The action will have helped to awaken the public to the predations that await an infidel society, will have help to de-legitimize pro-Sharia activity, and will have strenghtened the wise ones who want to stop Islamic immigration.

I suppose a private citizen could not bring a legal action like that, as it would be hard to prove that any harm had come to that citizen. An individual would not have "standing" with the court. The action would have to come from the government.

Is there no bureaucrat who would start the process, no elected representative who would ask for it? Is Tancredo the best recipient of the request? Who else?

Stillbreathing...Go for it!!!.... but you would have to have UNLIMITED funds to combat the Saudi money that such a showpiece trial would attract.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said in a statement released today: "Mild rebukes for the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure in Gaza will not stop Israeli missiles. The Bush administration should condemn these war crimes and demand that Israel stop using American taxpayer- funded weapons to carry out attacks that will only serve to intensify the humanitarian crisis in Gaza."

Why is it that CAIR says nothing about the deliberate Palistinian missle attacks, the Palistinian kidnappings and usual execution of captives, the frequent Palistinian raids which usually result in death of Israeli civilians, the constant bombings, sniper attacks, plots to create massive explosions to effect maximum death and destruction of innocent victims, the destruction of the very fine vegatable farms that were formally Israeli owned in the Gaza strip vacated by the Israeli (who voluntarily left this area as a peace offering), the constant terrorist attacks by Islamic thugs who were armed and supplied by the Palistinian government, the constant threats to annihilate Israel and its people and its religion. The list continues. If you point your finger at Israel you should also look at all sides. Israel has made many attempts at peace since time began, and never has peace been considered by the Arabs, Muslims, or anyone who held the land that encircles Israel. The thorn in the Peaceful Religion of Islam's side could be that Israel never bowed down to or submitted to the will of Allah or mini MO. The Jews believe in their own God (who must be a mighty God as Israel has survived eons of constant attack by miniMO and the others). Just today I heard that several Islamic militant groups are willing to cease fire in Iraq, if only the US agrees to leave. Seems like we have them on the run and they realize now that if they continue to pursue the terror way of life that their days could be numbered. They are running out of supplies, money and non Muslim support. The tide is turning against Islam and they know it.

Civil rights for me but not for thee....

"A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group, that is silent on the absence of civil rights or dhimmi status for religious minorities (Hindu, Christian, etc.) in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, today said Israel's targeting of the Palestinian civilian infrastructure is a "war crime" that should be condemned by the Bush administration."

More and more people know the truth.

CAIR is a fraud. There should be a congressional investigation of this "civil rights for me but not for thee" group. Write to your reps in congress.

Just sounds to me like they're cut from the same bolt. The bolt being islam.

CAIR condemns Israel when it defends itself and yet condones when Israel is attacked.

They should just come out and say it's ok for muslims to kill Jews or any non muslims. I know that's what they would love to say. They should confess they love blood, gore, torture and cold blooded murder as long as it's muslims doing it.

This is a free country...let them say it.

When you stop and think about it...isn't Cair just like the KKK?

I agree with Frank on the idea of a congressional hearing about CAIR. However, I have my doubts that such a public unmasking could ever take place. I believe that CAIR, along with their wealthy ME patrons, have been buying influence with media outlets, Washington DC think tanks, government agencies (like the FBI) and politicians. Their infusion of cash is paying great dividends. They have just received a huge infusion of money from the UAE to replenish their coffers. In other parts of the country, their local chapters have well-paid lawyers to do their bidding for various law suits, as well as local media who sympathize with CAIR clients as victims (remember class: All Muslims in the US are victims) I find it interesting that two professors have recently published a loudly heralded article on the Israeli lobby in the US, and yet, as far as I know, there is no such mainstream effort to seriously investigate CAIR and Company, or for that matter, the enormous amount of lobbying done on Capitol Hill by vaious ME countries and companies.

CAIR just underscores everything that I have ever said when it comes to my top priority in this fight as of today, and that is to see Islam outlawed in the United States and an amendment to the Constitution made in regards to religions/cults -- an amendment that would protect the Constitution itself from the machinations of those ideologies that attempt to hide behind freedom of religion with the ultimate goal of bringing down the people's government, our democracy and our way of life.

We should start by rounding up CAIR and deporting every last one of them. They are enemies of the state and it is as obvious as the sun is bright.

The truth is, there are no civilians in islam, just muslims and infidels.

I suppose a private citizen could not bring a legal action like that, as it would be hard to prove that any harm had come to that citizen. An individual would not have "standing" with the court. The action would have to come from the government.

Perhaps a class action on behalf of several individuals is the answer; then go through the back door to steer the case to the "activist judges" that are favorable to your cause.

It works every time.

Gee, no electricity? Call someone who cairs.

The pedophile "prophet" Mohammad didn't have electricity (unless you count the internal kind produced during epileptic seizures) so why should any of his brainwashed followers have such an infidel invention?

Back to the purity of original Islam!

No voltage, no sanitation (other than 3 stones), no machinery, no printing presses, no nothing!

Camel dung and megalomania forever!

Osama bin Hooper

See if I CAIR

Muslims usually defend islamic terrorists aka jihadists and their CAIR's defense of HAMAS is a prime example.

So, it's HIGH TIME UNCLE SAM quit defending terrorists too (in this case our "friends" at CAIR) and sent them on a one-way trip to them to the Gitmo terrorist holding facility.

We all know CAIR was founded and financed by terrorists by mosques and fanatical governments inthe Middle East. So it is criminal negligence for our government not to take hard action on this organization that exists for,of, and by Islamic terror.

it's HIGH TIME UNCLE SAM quit defending terrorists too ...

The High Court has made its latest ruling on Gitmo -- seems they're high on PC weed and ICC hemp resin or something!

witness-

The Supreme Court seems not to understand that no prisoners in previous wars were tried, but were simply held in jail until the war ends.

Those, who better fit the status of the Gitmo prisoners, rm were simply shot in the field, considered to be terrorists, spies and saboteurs with no more rights than that of a blindfold.

This "firing squad solution" is what I would have wished had happened immediately after they were captured. Then, no Gitmo P.R. victory for al-Qaeda, for years.

Ths war looks to last for a century, at least.

I'll gladly see these Gitmo maniacs released then.

I'll even buy them a box of halal Depends.

Witness,
Who elected these terrorist enablers? They should be brought before a Military Tribunal and compelled to explain their willingness to turn their backs on those of us who pay their salaries. We Americans are thankfully still the most tolerant and forgiving people on the face of the earth. There is however a limit to our kindness. . Mark my words, the cream “Will” rise to the top and Americans will be protected eventually. The next election will make everything crystal clear. Enemies of Freedom beware. Do not ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for you!

But, but, but. . .I thought that ALL moslems were taxed with fighting against the Kafir. . .Doesn't that make all of them members of the islam(ofazcist) army?

After all, the SCOTUS' decision that they should be treated by the Geneva Convention which ONLY applies to "uniformed forces" means that they are an army. This means that anything they are wearing is their uniform which means that NONE are immune from fire.

This also means that the "Pendleton Eight" should be released at once, no matter what they did it was against a member of the opposing force.

Duty, Honor, Country
(in THAT order)
Rowane

Rowane,
The Pendleton eight are a perfect example of the need for new regulations. Scenario… 100 “youths” come forward and accuse 1 Marine of war crimes.
Judge: I am sorry boys but I am going to need more evidence. A lot more!

Release our heroes now! Or resign in disgrace Commander USMC Camp Pendleton and all others involved in this abomination. This is all enemy propaganda.

Foehammer:

Criminalization of Islam in teh US is not likely to go anywhere. It goes directly against the First Amendment and is likely to make religious types of all persuasions very uneasy. Unfortunately, this is the Devil's bargain that has been set before the US and other Western countries: tolerance of the intolerant.

There may be an out from this bargain, however. Since Islam recognizes no separation of religiuos and political life, all Moslems living with Western citizenship are de facto dual nationals. They are citizens of their country of residence and citizens of the Ummah, the constitution of which is comprised of the the Qur'an and Hadith. Moslem loyalty to the Ummah is well understood to supercede all other loyalties. Moslems caught breaking the law, directly or as accessories, could with justification be stripped of citizenship and repatriated to the Ummah, say through Saudi Arabia. All dependents would go with them. Enforcement of bigamy legislation might also be considered to this end. Terrorism-related crimes should be a slam-dunk for such action.

Why doesn’t cair defend allahs brave warriors running away and the remaining hamas leadership cowering in hide sites. You palestinians wanted to return to the 7th century you got it, you all owe Israel a debt of gratitude you will never repay.

CAIR is an organisation that has intimate links with terrorism, and most especially Hamas. This is well known. CAIR itself should be placed on the list of designated terrorist organisations. That would be one way to resolve the CAIR dilemma. In the meantime, discrediting them at every step, particularly from groups like Anti-CAIR should persist.

Foehammer, you are a broken record. Ban Islam? How? I can see a possible policy rationale behind it, but how do you reconcile it with the COnstitution and the First Amendment? Human rights are not absolute. They are subject to limitation (just look at Korematsu v United States). Just like there is no absolute freedom of speech, there may be no absolute freedom of religion. So if situtaions continue to deteriorate, and linkages start being made, may be Foehammer will get his wish. But these freedoms are arguably derogable. But I don't think Foehammer's statement is an appariton. It could happen. Emergency powers during war time, mean limitation on rights. However, they dont mean an extinguishment of rights. Government measures must be narrowly tailored. Banning a religion, is not narrowly tailored to achive the goal of rooting out extremists. In fact if you ban Islam, you have less chance of finding the people who are committing and/or supporting terror as they would be underground.

There are a great deal of measures that the government could take to help ensure loyalty from its Muslim population, through monitoring mechanisms. Due to political correctness however this does not occur.

But banning Islam? It is not likely in the near future. Unless things get much worse, then all bets are off the table. Read Korematsu.

Arjun, I like the saying "Kill them all, let God sort them out".

CAIR. Nice folks. Condem Israel, what a surprise! But isn't there so much injustice in the world to condem? Why, for example, how about the inculcation of hate and programming suicide bombing rockets in Gaza and 'The west bank.' How about condemming sainted Hamas by having their brave sons being educated in Europe while 'recruiting' retarded kids to strap on bombs? This sounds like something that CAIR might condem as well.

Haidon wrote: "Ban Islam? How? I can see a possible policy rationale behind it, but how do you reconcile it with the COnstitution and the First Amendment?"

How does one reconcile Islam itself with the First Amendment and the rest of the Constitution? Islam tolerates or respects nothing and nobody outside of Islam. The pious Muslim recognizes no secular law, including every bit of the Constitution, as holding any superior claim on his loyalty and obedience.

By its own definition, Islam is in a permanent state of war, until Judgment Day, against the U.S. Constitution, which is based on individual freedom, respect for human dignity, rule of law, and separation of church and state.

Islam, whose open goal is to snuff out individual freedom everywhere by subjugating all humanity (Muslim or not) under Islamic sharia law as paramount authority, should not be tolerated within the territories of the United States. Muslims should not be permitted to immigrate to, or even visit, these shores, for any reason.

Ummah.com is trying to cause anti-jihadists trouble. They want to post personal information on the web, why ummah.com? You know what jihadists would do with that information.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21290_Ummah.com_Campaign_to_Whine_About_Islamophobic_Sites&only

the filth of cair goes beyond reason.

Get this post from ummah.com
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1153394&postcount=39
Sounds like they think our Presidents are in the pocket of islam.

A memo to Haidon:

Islam can very easily be OUTLAWED--- and I dare say that it WOULD DEFINITELY BE both constitutional AND legal to do so!

FIRST, you will recall that Islam incorporates first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder into its core doctrines (one classic example found in the Kuran goes thus: "...and when the forbidden months have passed, slay the unbelievers everywhere they are found; besiege them, capture them, torture them, prepare every stratagem of warfare against them..." THAT is both first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, would you not agree?). BOTH ARE CAPITAL CRIMES IN THE USA and most civilized nations (well,duh...).

As such Islam is in violation of most non-Islamic countries' legal codes. Right there is sufficient legal justification for outlawing Islam: as it CLEARLY VIOLATES our laws. And since it does it is therefore DISCRIMINATORY TO PERMIT it to be practiced here and in other countries where there are laws protecting the citizenry from murder and conspiracies to commit murder because NO ONE ELSE IS LEGALLY PERMITTED TO COMMIT THESE CRIMES!!

Legalizing the practice of Islam in a non-Islamic land is tantamount to setting up a two-tiered justice system, one tier by which the native citizens are bound by laws prohibiting murder and conspiracy to commit murder, and another by which Muslim immigrants are allowed to practice their creed in which non-members of their 'faith' may be killed and in which Muslims may also conspire to commit first-degree murder against non-Muslims. One side gets to commit murder and conspiracy to commit murder and the other one does not. That's what happens when Islam is allowed into a non-Muslim land.

SECOND-- Islam is unconstitutional in the United States for the reason that it incorporates not only first-degree murder but EXTREMELY painful religious executions---for instance stonings, beheadings, dismemberment and more. THESE ARE THE "CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS" SINGLED OUT BY OUR CONSTITUTION. And so too would the dismemberment of thieves be for theft (although in Muslim countries many powerful Muslim citizens get a free pass to embezzle, steal, cheat and other forms of theft with impunity--look at Mullah Omar who lived in a plastic palace!). The Constitution says "NO" to these practices. And so should we!!!

Islam can thus be legally and constitutionally excised from America. If only the American people and the American government had the cojones to accept their responsibility to do so.

What I find so disturbing is the seemingly neverending flow of US citizens in the government, state dept., media, etc. willing to sell their country and fellow countrymen out for the almighty dollar.....THOSE are the people who should be exposed. But since the MSM is bought and paid for, that's not likely to happen. That would dry up the jihad inside our borders but quick without the enablers. I'd like to see how much their blood money helps them and their loved ones if the scurge of islam ever takes over, they will have to convert or die just like the rest of us. I for one will never renounce my God.

The key to outlawing Islam in the western democracies would be to de-list it as a religion and identify it instead as a political ideology in the same vein as Communism (with which it has much in common and by the way Communism is basically illegal in the United States).

When it is established that Islam utilizes first degree murder to advance its ideological goals it should be possible to criminalize it since its ostensibly practice relies upon criminal violations of our laws. The First Amendment would no longer apply to it because it wouldn't be listed as a religion (which it isn't anyway).

David Koresh had a self-made religion, too--the Branch Davidians. And look where it got them in America (six feet under).

Haidon - I am in agreement with a lot of posters here in noting that you seem like an intelligent and decent person. If most Muslims were like you, we wouldn't be in this mess. I know you don't live in the US, but nevertheless, I hope you don't get yourself into further trouble by posting statements like that about CAIR, and under your own name to boot. I saw where you said that you went into Islam with your eyes wide open but I can't help but wonder whether you're having second thoughts. Did you truly understand the "forever" part?

Carolyn2 - I was looking to see if anyone here had linked to that post from LGF. I'm glad you did. It got me thinking about what it would look like if someone merely rewrote the Koran, but in every place where it refers to infidels or unbelievers - the word "Muslims" were substituted, which would render sura 9:5 as:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)..."

Would that be the kind of hate speech and call to genocide that the Muslims at that site object to? Imagine doing that systematically to the entire Koran - substituting Muslim wherever the Koran refers to the infidels and unbelievers. Would they get it then?

Do we need to produce a counter-Koran in order to MAKE them get the point? And if we did so, would they acknowledge the hate speech and calls for genocide then? And if they did call it hate speech and calls for genocide, what would be their reaction if we endlessly dissimulated and claimed that they were taking all that hate speech "out of context"? I find it an amusing thing to think about.

Caroline,
What a phenominally GREAT idea!!!! It's one of those, "Why didn't I think of that?" It'd be great if there was a publisher that would actually do such a thing, at least in the blogsphere, anything is possible. CAIR et all couldn't call that hate speech, it's their own "holy book".

In fact (further amusing myself here with this tables turning in response to the thread at ummah.com), imagine if every time a poster wrote something along the lines of what "Online activist" objects to (hate speech, calls for genocide against Muslims etc), said poster attached a little note at the end of every post saying "Love your Muslim neighbor and peace be upon the Muslims" - something like that (it needs work to get the exact wording down) - so that said poster could point to his post and say - See that? I am wishing peace and love towards Muslims. You're taking this out of context...

No_Mooselimbs - glad you like it. Not sure it would work but the truly amazing thing is to consider that Muslims are apparently incapable of seeing their own "holy book" for what it is - a hate manual and a call to genocide - and that we actually have to consider making them "walk a mile in our shoes" in order to GET them to see it!

And another thought (please don't get me going here) - is that that little note at the end of every post (the sort of internet posts which "onlineactivist" objects to, should explicitly include the notion that "innocent" Muslims are obviously excluded from the statement above (the post which on the surface apparently implies hate and/or genocide towards Muslims). Of course it follows without saying that the definition of "innocent" should remain very very vague. Context, after all, is everything...

Caroline,
I like the way you think! I don't know about you, but I gag every time I use the word religion, prophet (correct me if I'm wrong, should'nt you prophesize something before you get to use that title?) and holy any time in relation to islam.

Here's another great quote from Freewoman she posted in the comments for the JW story about the Colorado Safeway shooter:

"Muslims are the only people in the world who are taught to make the world a worse place by the time they leave it as opposed to a better place."
Posted by: freewoman at June 27, 2006 07:43 AM

There's an old saying:

"If you believe you can't do something, you're right."

the mos loyalty to the cult of islam is greater than any loyatly to any country.

jihad targets in America: Washington DC, NYC, Chicago, Seattle, LA and Las Vegas the sin capital of the world.

if you live in any of the metropolitian areas of these six cities have an escape plan for every member of your family.

if you live in America be prepared, be armed and be ready for the war with islam is inevitable for islam will not surrender its goal to conquer the world.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.

Texican, funny you should mention having an escape plan.....I have given my family and friends the escape route and where we are to meet up down the road. (they still say yeah, yeah) But if something should happen , they'll thank me for it. They'll be sick of tuna, but they'll thank me for it.

The banning Islam debate is beyond outrageous, as are the consequences of it. As far as Foehammer and the extremists above who support him, you have indicated to me that as a Muslim who is not a threat, but someone who has done a great deal to fight terrorism, have every reason to fear you as much as the Islamists. I practice my faith as do millions of there Muslims world wide, benignly.

We should focus on ways of stopping and eradicating extremism from Islam. The practice of political Islam should be relegated and marginalised. This can be accomplished through laws limiting immigration, foriegn funding, and creating offences for the glorification of terror.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact. As I stated before, human rights can be limited. But government measures must be narrowly tailored to meet those objectives. Even respected Justices Roberts, Thomas, Scalia and Alito would agree. This means that Islam probably cannot be criminalised.

A poster by the name of Bohemond_1069 endorses the notion of "kill em all and let god sort it out". I take this is a direct threat. There is a genocidal overtone to some of this debate. Please stop.

Can we get a show of hands to see how many people think all Muslims should all be killed? Muslims are human beings who have universal human rights just like evryone else. As long as our beliefs do not interfere with others. Those rights must be respected. Herein lies the problem. Many Muslims do not.

Caroline, thank you for your comment. I have not had second thoughts about being Muslim. While I am disgusted by the state of Islam, and Muslims, I will remain Islam and try to be a force for good.

Islam should not be illegal. This would be unconstitional, but stopping absolutely all Muslim immigration can and should be proposed with a zero tolerance law and rules in place--leading to instant deportation of any Muslim or Imman who preaches hate. Yes, he can be allowe back into the US, but only after a lengthy appeal process and vetting process which takes decades and would be costly. So, zero immigration. It was done in the 20's I think and it was done earlier for other ethnic groups. Then in five hundred or a thousand years in the future, we can reevaluate how Islam is doing and perhaps loosen the restrictions.

Biorabbi... I agree. For non-US Nationals there should be no accountability mechanisms by which an appeal can take place. There is no human right to immigration per se. Although this should be an unofficial policy, not an official one.

I read the news today oh boy...
about a lucky man that made the grade...
and though the news was rather sad.

I just had to laugh...

Having read the book.

I had to sayyyyyyyyyyy.

Look up, above my head, was a bomb above my head, made my way down stairs and had a cup...

looking up I noticed i was late, drank a cup had some toast made the bus in seconds flat...

and some pali blew it up... but it is all the wests fault.

All thngs must come to an end... This Mosi BS is about to cause massive blowback, they just don't no it yet.

Timmmmmme is on my side, yes it is, time is on my side yes it is...

Mohammed died crying, screaming, and sniveling his curses. All followers of al-insan al-kamil must do the same, it appears... unless a bomb cuts short the cowardice.

As I recall, the "Palestinians" were nobodies living in "no man's land" until fellow Muslims told them to "get out" because "we shall now push Iraeeeel into the sea!" Well, they didn't; and this was in 1967. So, 400,000 "Palestinians" leave Israeeeeel, and 800,000 "Jews" come into same. The Israelis kick Mohammed's butt big time and allah's spent forces use the next xxx decades trying to hide that fact. Does time change facts?

When Hitler was "voted" into power, in a seemingly democratic election, were the voters informed of the true and full intentions of the NAZI Party? When Hamas was "voted" into power, were the voters informed that such a decision might prove "unpopular" with most peace-loving peoples of the world? Did they know that voting in Hamas was, in effect, a declaration of war with Israel? DO they even really care?

What am I really asking? As the father of 9 (youngest 19 yo and 4 by second, wonderful marriage) I WANT TO VOMIT OUT OF DESPAIR WHEN I READ OF PALESTINIAN "parents" sending their 10 year old sons to "suicide training schools", run by Hamas and financed by the PA. As one true hero said, in a great Aussie-American movie: "Go Spit!" Hint: Mel Gibson and Danny Glover...

Good question?

Haidon: Banning Islam in non-Islamic countries is neither outrageous nor extreme! If that offends you I apologize. I am concerned about preventing innocent people from being murdered. I can think of nothing more 'extreme' than ideologies that actively foster such crimes (and Islam is #1 on that list).

Banning Islam in non-Islamic countries is in my view ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the simple reason that Islam is set up to KILL innocent people (including non-combatants as may be witnessed presently in the besieged Sudanese territory of Darfur)and has been doing so for 14 centuries. Protecting civilian lives to my eyes takes higher priority than concern regarding Muslims' pride. The issue I speak of here is not about tolerance or even intolerance--it is first degree murder. I can't commit it under US law and neither should anyone else coming to my homeland! I think most non-Muslims will agree if they think about it long enough.

If you find that personally difficult to admit and/or accept (as I can understand why you would) I would remind you that for those of us who live in societies where life is held to be intrinsically sacred, Islam and its homicidal aspects are (at least) as repulsive to us as the outlawing of Islam is to you. You are failing to see the non-Islamic perspective in this matter, and in the process you are doing yourself a disservice. I mean how would YOU like to have a terrorist bent on destroying your city move into the apartment below yours (especially for those who have children)? Those of us living in the western democracies are now being forced to face such threats on a daily basis thanks to Islam's penetration into our societies. Do you think that such things should be permissible under the law anywhere? I don't. Do you really find it offensive that people are greatly concerned that their fellow citizens may be massacred by outsiders who follow Islam, or that their country may be wiped off by the map in the name of al-lah??? If so, tell me again, who's extreme here?

Although you evidently do not cater to Islam's homicidal mandates (which I respect) I would like to ask you how do you intend to stop the millions and millions of Muslims who could and would kill non-Muslims in the name of al-lah? Is it possible that you could NOT do anything about it all? How many Muslims would it take to wipe out New York City, Tokyo, London, or Bangkok? How long will it be before a handful of Muslims who get their hands on WMDs finally pull something like that off?

Why should any of us wait for something like that to happen? Outlawing Islam (and to be fair all other cults that preach mass killing) will minimize the likelihood of such a tragedy.

You may condemn this argument as 'extreme'. Maybe by some yardsticks it is. But at least the western democracies will still be alive and free if I can swing it.

Why not ban islam? Besides the fact it is a war manual, science has proved it to be wrong. (flat earth, mountains holding the earth in orbit, semen comes from the back, sun sets in a mud puddle, etc) Why have people worship an insane murdering pedophile?

There is no redeeming quality in the koran. Why would people worship something that is proven false and dangerous for non muslims?

Haidon: "I take this is a direct threat. There is a genocidal overtone to some of this debate. Please stop. Can we get a show of hands to see how many people think all Muslims should all be killed?

Hmmm….Should all Muslims be killed? Well, I think it probably does sort of depend on the context. But we infidels need to first debate the subtleties of these verses from the reverse-Koran (keeping in mind, of course, that “innocent” Muslims have nothing to fear):

4:89 The Muslims long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from the Muslims till they forsake their homes in the way of our God, if the Muslims turn back (to enmity) then take the Muslims and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them..

2:191, And slay the Muslims wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight the Muslims until there is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216, Fighting the Muslims is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

5:33, The punishment of Muslims who wage war against our God and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is the disgrace of Muslims in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the Muslims: smite the Muslims above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

8:60, Against the Muslims make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the Muslims.

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:14, Fight the Muslims, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:29, Fight the Muslims who believe not in our God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by our God nor acknowledge our religion the religion of Truth, (even if they are) Muslims, until they pay the us protection money , and feel themselves subdued.

9:39, Unless ye go forth to slay the Muslims, God will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

9:73, Strive hard against the Muslim Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:123, O ye who believe! fight the Muslims who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.

22:19-22; These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny Our God – the Muslims - for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), “Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!”

25:52, So obey not the Muslims, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.

47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Muslims, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.

Haidon: "Muslims are human beings who have universal human rights just like everyone else."

Where in the reverse-Koran does it state that Muslims have "universal human rights" just like everyone else (like infidels that is)? Rather, I believe it states that we will provide a certain amount of protection for Muslims provided they fork up huge sums of money to remain free of endless harassment and the imminent threat of the “tiny minority of extremists” among us infidels acting on our holy texts as stated above.

Oh. And I forgot to mention the best part. It’s for the infidel ladies who take part in the “whack a Muslim” festivities. These female “martyrs” are guaranteed 72 studs in paradise equipped with permanent erections.

Haidon - as I said - I think you're a good person and I don't mean to give you personally a hard time. But its really rather ludicrous for you to refer to a certain “genocidal overtone” to this debate. What is it about the Koran that you don't understand? Because frankly, if you, as intelligent as you obviously are, don't get it, then what hope is there for the rest of your far more ignorant brothers and sisters?

Earlier today, I was listening to the toxic left-wing radio program Democracy Now. The repellent Amy Goodman was interviewing an English journalist based in Gaza, who was clearly anti-Israel. He reported that the Israelis bombed the power grid supplying electricity to Gaza, adding, to my astonishment, that ISRAEL PROVIDES MOST, IF NOT ALL, THE ELECTRICAL POWER TO GAZA! In other words, the Arabs there, who are hellbent on lobbing missiles at Jews across the border and kidnapping and murdering Jews in cold blood are dependent upon Israel for their electricity, which Israel (up until now)has continued to provide to those who would destroy it. Why has Israel, I wonder, been so accommodating? The irony of the situation, the biting-the-hand-that-feeds-you syndrome, as it were, was evidently lost on this journalist, and, it seems, on the sad, sad, self-hating Jew, Amy Goodman.

I forgot in my post immediately preceding this one that the egregious Amy Goodman, admirer of the likes of Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein, who are frequent guests on her radio show, also has relatives who live in Israel. It appears that their lives and security mean little or nothing to her.

biorabbi:

Islam most cetainly SHOULD BE ILLEGAL and it really wouldn't be unconstitutional to make it so in the United States. I see no reason to put any more stock in the argument that Islam is a 'religion.' It is as political as it is 'religious' and it could easily be officially classified as a political ideology which would make it subject it to the political action it warrants in order to protect our citizens' lives (which Islam definitely puts in harm's way).

Islam practices first-degree murder and cruel and unusual punishment (its dismemberment of thieves provides a classic illustration of this famous Constitutional clause). Neither activity is constitutional for any official organization (religious or political)to be practicing. Outlawing Islam should be a piece of cake actually, if enough people had the valor to stand up to it politically.

If anything is unconstitutional here, it would be Islam itself in America--not the outlawing of it.