Why didn't Mohammed Robert Heft notify authorities about Faheem Ahmad? "Man who knew some plot suspects says Islamic 'anger' prevalent," from CBC News, with thanks to Looney Tunes:
A Toronto-area man who knew some of the 17 people charged in connection with an alleged bomb plot in Ontario says one had some fairly extreme views.Mohammed Robert Heft claims Faheem Ahmad thought the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington were a good thing for Islam....
Heft converted to Islam in his twenties. He says he fell briefly into a radical religious mindset but then regained his perspective. That's when he started helping troubled Muslims at a Scarborough, Ont., shelter.
He says he knows five of the suspects facing terrorism-related charges, some of whom came to the shelter. He never heard any of them advocate violence against Canadians, but he says he had a long and disturbing debate with Ahmad, 21, two months ago outside of a Scarborough mosque.
"He believed the 19 people involved in the World Trade Center bombings were martyrs and he was handing out DVDs openly of wills and testimonies of those 19 people suggesting what they did was right," said Heft.
But Heft has a different impression of another of the suspects, 25-year-old Stephen Chand, whom he describes as quiet and not at all political.
"I felt no threat from Steven Chand. This alleged [threat of] beheading of the prime minister sounds like a Hollywood movie to me."
Heft says a lot of young Muslims are angry and extremism is prevalent in the Toronto area. They get upset when they hear of alleged atrocities overseas in places like Iraq.
"People get emotional. Imagine if somebody came into your house and raped your family, or by mistake just blew up your family, you'd get a little angry.
"I mean we get angry ... when the water isn't hot in Canada or we lose our electricity for a day. So imagine what these people overseas are going through."
Heft knows personally about the road to religious extremism. He says when he was in the thick of it, he would have killed his own parents had they come between him and his newly chosen religion.
He blames the spread of extremism on the internet and what he calls "do-it-yourself Islam," where uneducated scholars are bending the peaceful word of the Koran to suit their violent ideology.
"For the last two years I've been involved in this mentality. I was dealing with it on a grassroots level. All it takes is a little education and sorting out who to take religion from."
Then why not educate? Why are there so many "extremists" in the Toronto area? What kind of education programs have the Toronto mosques estabished in order to fight this?
Heft says he hopes to start one:
Heft is hoping to open a new Islamic centre and residence for Muslim men and women. The idea is to help troubled young people and get those who have become radical back on track.He says the problem of extremism is something the Muslim community has to face up to and solve itself.
"Heft says a lot of young Muslims are angry and extremism is prevalent in the Toronto area. They get upset when they hear of alleged atrocities overseas in places like Iraq."
Just think if we, The Human, got emotional and angry over the number of Humans brutally killed by these savages. What is stopping Mankind from getting 'emotional' ?
"I mean we get angry ... when the water isn't hot in Canada or we lose our electricity for a day....."
I had a cold cup of coffee today, maybe I should have declared jihad on the coffee shop?, quite a reasonable response?
I think this guy Mo Heft will be bumped of by his buddies for not being a true Muslim. He is practically an apostate to them. What? No Jihad ?
He is impeding progress to the caliphate.
And as an aside, why are all these "angry young muslims" choosing to live in a country they despise ? For instance , I despise the ME and would never think to migrate there.
Wouldnt they be happier in a muslim paradise ?
"People get emotional. Imagine if somebody came into your house and raped your family, or by mistake just blew up your family, you'd get a little angry.
from the article above. I am just wondering. If muslims get so emotional about these issues then how should infidels react to 1400 years of rape, slaughter, genocide, humiliation and slavery from islam.
What about muslims conducting genocide(against armenians,hindus, sudanese chirstians), muslims flying passenger jets into buildings in 911, people killed in bomb attacks by muslims(Mumbai, London, Madrid, Tel Aviv), Muslims machine gunning infidels (Munich, Kashmir),muslim persecution of infidels (Copts, Bangladeshi Hindus,Pakistani and Malaysian infidels), muslim rapes of infidels (in sweden and other european countries,on bangladeshi hindus,in pakistan on all infidels)
If all these infidels were grateful enough to show the "so called islamic tolerance" in response to the atrocities committed by islam upon them , then I guess there wouldn't be anything called islam on the surface of this planet.
For a free world
the hindu
ps
For those whose sufferings, I haven't mentioned, I wish to convey that I meant no disrespect and my prayers go out to all infidels who have suffered and are suffering under islam.
He says the problem of extremism is something the Muslim community has to face up to and solve itself.
Is this the same community that was protesting in the streets the day after the arrest denying that there was a problem at all?
Was this the same community who did nothing as threats against Canada were waged from the pulpits of community mosques?
Should we not assume that that talk of treason and overthrowing governments and incitement to murder comes with the gospel of Islam and needs no reaction?
Is it not true that some muslim clerics in Canada was outraged by the suggestion that it is a Muslim problem?
I will not hold my breath waiting for so called moderates like Heft to solve the problem.
Christianity is a spin-off on Judaism. your point?
americaningermany,
I, too, am having a problem with the word 'infidel'. For me, "fidelity" is about financial soundness. What do you think of kaafir instead ?
P.S. : I tried to see the video on immigration on one of your posts. But it stopped time and again. The techie I called said I have a lot of trash on my PC. So deleting and defragmenting for the past few days.
" They get upset when they hear of alleged atrocities overseas in places like Iraq."
All the more reason to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, take away this feeble excuse for their violence in our lands.
What has our involvement in the ME brought us?, nothing but more costs, deaths and injuries to our military, and Sharia in those lands through the force of our militaries.
Get out and leave these primitives to sort themselves out. Why should we pay to keep the Sunni and Shi'ite for murdering each other?, why should we put out sons and daughters in harm's way?, what good can come of this stupidity?
Let the Saudi's scream for military support to protect their oil fields from Shi'ite encroachment, and offer conditional assistance based on:
a: No more Saudi funding of the Islamisation of the west, and
b: LOWER OIL PRICES
What is worst?, the madness of the Mohammedans, or the lack of vision of those who lead us?
americaningermany,
"kaafir" or ka'fir, is the word originally used in the koran to describe non muslims. There is only one problem with it. If you use the word offline, and some muslim is nearby, he might get 'a little riled' at a Westerner having this knowledge.
Much as I would like to see it, I have not yet finished the maintenance on my PC. Techie just told me that I had around 75000 files of data, games, songs, and other miscellaneous translating tools and such. So am going through all, and deleting. If you want a good adware removal tool, you can go to google and download the google pack. It is free, has both antivirus and adware removal software. I am up to my neck with detection and removal and fine tuning software nowadays. :(
Does some of his anger include the anger at muslims blowing up muslims in Iraq?
Moose
Moose,
{
muslim blowing up muslim
if (same sect)
no problem ;
if (different sect)
call(kaboom) ;
kaafir blowing up muslim
call(kaboom) ;
}
kaboom
kaboom ;
Very simple logic. Nothing to it. :)
Alarmed Pig Farmer,
"This is why Islam will win out. The deeper Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews and Confucians go into their belief systems the happier more passive they become.
Quite the opposite for Moslems. This was Mohammed’s recipe for success. The whole Islam deal is a organized crime gang packaged as a religion"
In the short term, it does look like Islam could, and I mean, could win out. But in the long term, this could be in the end, its undoing. Remember, the Muslim thinking is still of the 7th century, which means the thinking of the 7th century in 21st Muslims minds. Also with so much high tech around, including the internet to get the info about the truth on Islam out and so much infighting at the same time among the different Muslims divisions, this Muslim anger will end up in the long term imploding Islam from within. The more peace-minded faiths will end winning because they know in this dangerous and difficult time, the need for conflict resolution and reconcilation. In other words, taking the more mature course to resolve conflicts.
americaningermany,
I consider the name by the Muslims of non-Muslims, kaffir to be a badge of honor. Remember that there is jihad not only going on against non-Muslims, but there is a civil war in the Muslim world among the different Muslim communities.
"Heft says he hopes to start one:
Heft is hoping to open a new Islamic centre and residence for Muslim men and women. The idea is to help troubled young people and get those who have become radical back on track.
He says the problem of extremism is something the Muslim community has to face up to and solve itself. "
I wish Godspeed to Mr. Mohammed Robert Heft in his efforts. While he is also added, he better increase his own security protection because of any possible death threats.
Alarmed Pig Farmer,
Thank-you for your very interesting response.
Yes I have seen some really unbelievable news postings over here and at DW.
As far as the issue of "adaptability" among the Muslims, even there is in time a limit to that. Thanks to JW/DW, LGF, Daniel Pipes, ete., more non-Muslims are keeping an eye for news stuff like the most recent outragous stuff posted as of late. Even these news stories need to be posted because of how far this silly PC-nonsense is getting which could be the West's undoing. So simply put, this site and others are the "eyes and ears" of the fight against jihad.
americaningermany:
While Islamists might call the rest of the world "infidel" and say we are all godless, pagan, etc., the real reason we are infidels (in their distorted vision) is because we do not worship Mohammed.
Allah, in all of his made-up glory, is just a front for Mohammed. It is Mohammed they worship. They will dispute it, naturally, but when they do, they protest too much methinks.
I have no problem announcing my belief that there is "no god but God", but damn me to hell if I'll call God "Allah" and damn me three times if I ever say in earnest that Mohammed is God's prophet!
I take some comfort in the fact that CanadianIslam is suffereing from similar ailments as BritishIslam, as this obviously proves that we in the UK are not alone in our cruel oppression of great world religions. Many of our countryfolk on both shores will be amazed and confused that such similar problems could emerge independently in two disparate communities, but this just proves that it is the rampant inequalities and bigotry of our societies that fosters such aggrievements. Perhaps our two countries should fund interfaith delegations bewteen CanadianMoslem and BritishMoslem communities, to better enable their struggle for integration into our bleak, exacting societies. CanadianIslam and BritishIslam are valuable assets of our common multicultural Western heritage, and both of these great religions deserve at least as much grace and tolerance as other, lesser religions, if not more.
I hear Davey Jones has a suitable place for such a meeting, in the Mid-Atlantic.
"He says when he was in the thick of it, he would have killed his own parents had they come between him and his newly chosen religion."
That is something to examine. This is an unstable individual, despite his disavowals. Why didn't the reporter pursue this line, rather than accepting the story this guy wanted to spin, and allowing him to tell it without any challenges or penetrating inquiry? This is simply a puff peice orchestrated by this dissembler.
Here are some questions this stupid journalist failed to ask:
Why does Heft go to such lengths to equate Muslim extremism with anger at hot water not running? Isn't this a baldly preposterous comparison? Why no challenge?
We see Heft proclaiming he knows how to get "extremists" out of the "thick" of Islamic extremism, to"help troubled young people and get those who have become radical back on track."
Exactly how? What's the plan?
How do we know he simply isn't teaching them how to conceal their intent -- to blend in better -- or come up with more preposterous comparisons to explain Muslim rage away to unsuspecting infidels rather than addressing their rage directly?
After admitting his own extremism -- I see no questions byt the journalist to coax proof out of Heft that he truly no longer embraces "extremism"? Not a single challenging question. Why? Afraid he'll become so furious at being questioned that he might kill?
And why the complete lack of curiosity after he proclaims he'd "have killed his own parents"? This is a stunning admission by anyone -- was it a figure of speech -- somehow we all know it wasn't! Why no followup!?
That admission really raised my red flags ...
The reporter seems to accept this guy's version of the story -- he follows Heft's lead -- permits him to craft a possibly very dishonest story -- to paraphrase: 'Hey! I was once one of these so-called extremists -- they're not that bad -- just angry the same way you are when the electricity goes off -- now that I've seen the light, I'm on the side of non-Muslim Canadians. I can help us out of this situation ... Now give me some money. "
Proof? His inaction of not turning these "extremists" in completely contradicts his plotline.
In addition:
Why does such a marginal person convert to Islam in the first place?
Does Islam enhance his anger and violence?
Was it anger and violence that attracted him to Islam?
Does Islam provide the needed pretexts for those predisposed to violence?
What guarantees are there he won't get into "the thick of it" again?
How EXACTLY is Heft different now from the man who "would have killed his own parents"?
These are all far more interesting question than the crackpot storyline this nut job is peddling. His tale is designed to sanitize his co-religionist's fury, and cloak himself in a disguise of reasonableness. I can see it now: The Center for The Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice in Islam. Run by a man who admitted he once "would have killed his own parents" for the sake of Islam. Paid for by taxpayers. Triple bad.
-americaningermany,
I think he's kidding. See his posting here on the previous thread.
I saw that one. I'm sure Animus can explain himself if he chooses to, but he's been posting here a while. These entries are ironic.
That doesn't sound just a little smartalecky to you?Eisenhund.
Actually, it sounds pretty funny to me.
americaningermany-
Don't worry about what intolerant theocratic lunatics call you.
I'm proud to be an Infidel Dog.
(And so are my dogs... I've even thought of having matching T-shirts made for the bunch of us, all saying "Proud Infidel Dogs", when I walk them in the Fall.)
BTW "kafir" [kaffir] is as much an insult as "infidel".
I'm honored to be despised by the demented.
(And Animus is yanking your satirical chain, methinks.)
-Anthony,
In my world, smartalecky and funny are pretty much synonyms.
profitsbeard says BTW "kafir" [kaffir] is as much an insult as "infidel"
Kafir IS Arabic for "infidel". The word "infidel" is just the closest English translation. See wiki:
Apologies, can't do satire and "Smartalecky" is my middle name. LOL
Alanis Morissette ( rumored to be a talented artiste ) screwed everything up with her new definition of "ironic". Ever since, it's been very confusing.
Posted by: americaningermany at June 20, 2006 06:52 AM
americaningermany,
1. Thanks for the link on slavery in Islam. Looks good so far.
http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/manussa/tr05manu.htm
2. Re: "Infidel". Much has been made of Islam's so-called respect for Christianity and Judaism, but it is PR-hype. Christians and Jews who do not convert to Islam are considered kafirun, disbelievers, and are described as having all the characteristics of polytheists because they allegedly assigned partners and/or rivals to Allah (all of this is clear in 9:29-35). Christians and Jews do not fare much better than Zoroastrians and idolators/pagans--who were also given the dhimmitude option in many cases. It is not entirely true that Christians and Jews have special status in Islam, because there are many cases where they have been simply put to the sword, and there are some cases where idolators where given the dhimmitude option.
The closest the Koran comes to approving of Christians and Jews is in 2:62, but
-that verse does not address the issue of accepting Mohammad and "Allah," and is therefore indecisive/ambiguous
-it accepts as valid Mohammad's ideosyncratic definition of what a true Christian or Jew is (i.e., they have to accept Mohammad's warped ideas about Judaism and Christianity). This must be kept in mind in reading the occasional seemingly positive verses about Christians in the Koran
-after Mohammad's revelations (Koran), Jews and Christians must accept Islam.
-even if 2:62 was accepted according to the apologist PR interpretation that Islam accepts Christians, this would be of no avail because 3:85 abrogates that interpretation, and the final policy of the Koran is that Allah himself desires to fight/destroy the Christians and Jews, and Muslims must deliver Allah's punishment on earth against the Christians and Jews (9:29-35).
-Muslims who convert to Christianity or Judaism must be executed, according to all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence (though in some cases there are some exceptional conditions where death penalty is substituted by other penalties), as has been the case in mainstream Islam for the past approx. 1380 years. This shows unequivocably that Christianity and Judaism are not acceptable in Islam.
____________________________
Posted by: jsla at June 20, 2006 10:45 AM
jsla,
Good observations re Heft and the lack of proper follow-up questions. I'm not sure what to make of him, but certainly he is defending Islam's public image and trying to dissociate Islam from the jihadists. But I can't criticize him for saying that the Muslim community needs to face up to this problem. This is exactly the same thing most politically correct editorialists can't say, but the media 's hand is more or less forced to report his sttaements given their importance and relevance. (It also fits with the whole identity politics scheme: He's 'allowed' to criticize the Muslim community because he's a Muslim).
Re extremist remarks...I'm not entirely sure that he didn't report the extremist remarks previously. He may have. However, one of the suspects told Heft that he (the suspect) knew he was being monitored by spies anyway.
That's the funny thing about it. Apparently most, if not all, of these suspects knew they were being monitored, and in some cases the police had actually warned the parents of the suspects(!) But reportedly the would-be jihadists kept right on moving forward with their plans anyway.
americaningermany,
Oops. Typo in my post... ideosyncratic should be idiosyncratic.
where are all these islamic web sites at. I have tried to find them. Anyone have their addresses?
I'm small-time. The accolade for really twisted cynicism belongs to Naseem.
Yep Archimedes. There are more generous ways to interpret his comments than I have -- but clearly without more probing questions it's impossible to tell what's correct. He doesn't pass the smell test by my standards. The fact that he, by his own words, has contemplated killing his parents at one point if they came between him and Islam is simply post facto revelatus of ipso facto proof for my a priori suspicions that he can't be trusted!
While I want to be fair, as someone here has said before, we owe Muslims nothing. It is they who are guests in the West, and they're failing their good citizenship tests miserably everywhere. In the end, I want to survive far far more than I want to be fair to those who wish me ill. Since they continuously show themselves to be sinister or unstable or malevolent, it's best to be circumspect at least. And more probitive.
keepstrong-
Try "ummah.com", "muslimswakeup" and these sites will provide other links.
Or do a search on combos like "dawa imam crusader sura haditha" or "inshallah wahabbi shaheed al-jazeera fedayeen" and weed out the irrelevant filler.
One I like is:
http://www.wae.org/islam/free-islam.htm
And click on "Muslim Hate Mail".
(It is an 'adult'-oriented site, on purpose for 'political', anti-jihadist reasons, thus, if you prefer gals in burqas, don't click on any of the image links.)
I completely disagree. Hugh has in the past enumerated the reasons for wearing that label with pride. To recap:
- It is shorter than "non-Muslim"
- It provides the Muslim view of what we are, but clearly devoid of the Muslim sting
- It gets us, the Infidels, used to thinking of how many Muslims think of us -- and inuring us to that thought.
- It confuses and disturbs Muslims when non-Muslims, in writing, call themselves "Infidels"
- Use of the word "Infidel" makes clear the vast abyss, in Muslim terms, between Believer and .... Infidel.
For the 4th item above, you'll see a demo of it in this gem from Khalid bin Waleedtest