Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald reacts to the killing of Zarqawi:
The death of Zarqawi is cheering, and worrying.Cheering, for all the obvious reasons. And there would be still more cheering, for all the obvious reasons, if Bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri were killed. Puts a bounce in one's step, makes the morning better.
Worrying, for all the obvious reasons and some unobvious ones. Gives Infidels a false sense that there is an end to this matter; allows some to conclude that "we're getting the bad guys" and we are "winning." (Listen to radio shows).
Worrying, because Al-Zarqawi, like Bin Laden, like all of them, is part of a store that is endlessly replenishable, as long as Islamic jihad remains Islamic jihad, and Believers take it seriously.Worrying, because the idea that this is a "war on terror" and we "are killing the terrorists" will be reinforced, as it naturally would be when this or that terrorist, or eight of them, are killed.
Worrying, because it will be given enormous, exaggerated attention, and the other war, the main war, the war that involves the most effective instruments of Jihad -- money, Da'wa, demographic conquest -- will still not be addressed. The "war on terror" will be seen as being won, and that will take away from what was dawning on some, to wit: The phrase "we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" is a false remark, and seen to be even more false as those 17 natives of Canada are rounded up, with their Qur'ans, and their burka-ed relatives smack in the middle of Toronto, and their storefront mosques, and their three tons of nitrogen fertilizer, and their plans for dealing with the Canadian Parliament and the Canadian Prime Minister.
Worrying, because even if the killing of Zarqawi and others diminishes the outside Sunnis, this will delay the day of American recognition that the main part of the revolt is not from the "terrorists" outside Iraq (though it is pleasant to think so) but from Sunnis who do not wish to see power transferred from themselves to the Shi'a. Yet that transfer became inevitable when Saddam Hussein was overthrown, along with his entire ruling class and the Sunni-officered military disbanded. Far from being cause for American alarm, American aims, the aims of all Infidels, are best achieved by letting those sectarian and ethnic (Kurd and Arab) hostilities simmer, not be somehow papered over. Ideally -- if we stop watching that pot -- they may boil over, distracting the principals entirely from the Jihad against the Infidel. As co-religionists of both sides join in, and effects are felt from Yemen and Al-Hasa province of Saudi Arabia all the way to Lebanon, and perhaps even to Muslims in the Western world, their previous anti-Infidel unity will now be suddenly sundered.
Wonderful news. Hurray! Misleading news. Watch out! Be careful not to be carried away.
Of course, some have long since been carried away, away from all reason. I heard Michael Berg on NPR. He said something about people like "Zarqawi, Bush" and repeated that phrase "Zarqawi, Bush" at least once or twice more. Clearly a special hatred was reserved for Bush. Berg, a "peace activist" who told his interviewer that he, Berg, had asked the FBI (when they came to find out more about what his son might have been wearing) "not to kill Zarqawi," explained that what he had really wished to do was to sit down with Zarqawi, and talk to him, man to man, and reason with him, and see his point of view, and have him see his, Michael Berg's, point of view. That is how conflicts are resolved, you see, in Michael Berg's world, which is not that far, I'm afraid, from Jimmy Carter's world, or the world of clownish Roger Fisher of "Getting to Yes" fame. No, they are all types. And these types, whether they are holier-than-thou in the Carter and Berg manner, or in it because they are simply dizzy promoter and self-promoters of "process" -- Getting to Yes, you see, is never about the possibility of one side wishing to destroy the other, always about compromisable matters, where everyone wins and no one loses (in other words, Fantasyland) -- they are, as Michael Berg is, clear dangers to the rest of us.
Imagine a world in which someone like Michael Berg ran things. Imagine what peril he would put us in. Berg is crazy. Not crazed with grief as he ought to be -- in fact, when he began his interview he discussed the physical pain he had been in. Not moral pain, nothing to do with anguish over his son, not at all -- just some pain he had been having.
Let's tell the unpleasant truth that before we were all too diplomatic to tell: Michael Berg's attitude toward the world is crazy. He is terminally and permanently naive. And even though his son did not agree with him about policy toward Iraq, the sheer craziness of that son, Nicholas Berg, flying off by himself as a civilian to Iraq, to find ways to help the Iraqis, with no connection to the government, was the result of hopeless naivete about the world -- and that hopeless naivete came directly from his nearly insane father. That responsibility is something Michael Berg will never understand. But we who do understand must prevent these insane people (and there are others, perhaps not quite so obvious, all over the place) from taking chances with our lives, and our children, by not seeing the world and evil as it is.
They should not be given that chance. And those who are hailing the death of Zarqawi today should not be given the chance to, in their overconfidence, weaken us still further against the Jihad threat.
Complete agreement.
Note: As it turns out, I just made a very similar (though less verbose) blog posting of my own just minutes before reading JW this morning. I guess many of us are having the same thoughts today.
Foehammer,
Our friend Hugh is not verbose. Every word he writes is a mot juste!
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Since we are talking about naivete. Here is a statement from a Nobel Prize class naive.
"My whole soul rebels against the idea that Hinduism and Islam represent two antagonistic cultures and doctrines. To assent to such a doctrine is for me a denial of God. "
Gandhi
This nutjob never read history. He made his own brand of Hinduism, non-violence, synonym for cowardice. He never tried to understand his people (Hindus). Never acknowledged the 1000 year old struggle of Hindus against muslim invaders. He always had illiterate peasants and corrupt politicians on the gravy train with him. The outcome of this oaf's statement above was the Partition of India and the creation of islamic republic of pakistan. One million Hindus were butchered by muslim mobs as soon as the news was declared that this oaf has accepted the partition in West Punjab, which is now pakistan. This moron believed that the world was a safe place to live. And he was in a position to broker the partition. THAT genocide is going to happen again and again if insane people are in a position of influence.
Robert: Viva le difference! :)
arjun.sevak: Michael Savage said it clearly last night after a particularly annoying caller: "Nice people will be the death of us all."
We don't need more nice guys on our side. We need more bastards like me.
Foehammer,
And count me in.
I worry, because as I said yesterday how can you hope to beat an un-named enemy?..A foe that the American people should rally for his defeat...cheer for his death.....Just dont name him!
arjun.sevak: Counted! (Heck, I think 99% of the responders to JW aren't that dissimilar to myself really -- we're just average, everday folk who want to be left alone to live peaceful lives, but when we see a dire problem that threatens that possibility, we confront it, instead of running away from it. That's the special difference between those that are becoming "aware" in a timely manner and between those that still "just don't get it".)
What a wonderful post! My only quibble is that perhaps the word "denial" should be included while discussing nice people. On the other hand, it is a treacherous to attempt to understand what is going through the other people's mind's--especially crazy people.
arjun:
Yes, the sainted Ghandi, although he fought for some nobel ends without resorting to violence, was, indeed a nutjob. Get your hands on a copy of Christopher Hitchens's recent book, "Why Orwell Matters", for comments on "intellectual pacifism" in general, and Ghandi's egregious "advice" to the European Jewish community when Hitler & co. started the rounding-up for the "Final Solution", which was basically to "protest" by allowing themselves to be annihilated without any resistance whatsoever.
Is the President his staff and his ardent supporters as delusional as they sound? They are all acting as if this news was the taking of Normandy or somthing - slapping one another on the backsides when anyone with a clue knows there are thousands waiting, no begging to be the next Zarqawi. Look at Israel, they can't kill them fast enough for 60+ years now... Every time there's an "event" like this or elections or consitution we get promises of victory (anyone ever figure out what victory means BTW when they say it?) while in the real world of Iraq, violence, suicide attacks, IED's are relentless and seemingly unchanging - just like Israel.
So how about it anyone want to take a stap at defining "victory in Iraq"?
Foehammer my sentiments are the same, in that we are just regular people wanting to live and work in peace. but that does not mean we are stupid and cannot see evil lurking. my grandmother l am told, during the 30's raising her family of nine children being a widow had very tough choices to make living in poverty, but enough to feed and keep a roof over her family. They farmed,worked in forests, and hunted/fished. She and other farmers in the area (N.Ont) were approached by German agents wanting to buy scrap metal to send back to Germany.
most farms had lots of old metal lying around, she refused, saying that metal would one day be made into bullets that would kill Canadian soldiers .
so as poor as she was she refused money, and this plain farming women had enough knowledge of people and world affairs to predict another World War!
waterdragon,
I'll see if a copy is available in my city. Yes, defeatism was the solution of gandhi. Turn the other cheek always, he said. Eventually somebody will appreciate it that you take a lot of socking. The frightning thing is, even wikipedia lists false information about him. And very few books actually carry the fact that he was ridiculed, and he is today one of the most hated personalities by Hindus. Just think, one more such nutjob, in a position of influence, shall lead to WMD's being used against civilians. We need the hawks. And after the hawks have done their jobs, the vultures and crows to clean up. Then the doves are welcome.
Lulu writes: this plain farming women had enough knowledge of people and world affairs to predict another World War!
Never underestimate the understanding of a "plain farm woman." Did you never notice that all of those Peace in Our Time types are "intellectuals" - lots of book learning, but most of them know danged-all of practical earthly use.
Our State Department is riddled with them - has been throughout my life time. Over and over, through one crisis after the next, the blame for idiocy can be laid directly at the feet of the Department of State.
and this plain farming women had enough knowledge of people and world affairs to predict another World War! ......Lulu what a great story...we need more like her!
"Nice people will be the death of us all."
___
Yes very true - but Savage etal is being nice with his support of nation building. Essentially a LBJ anti poverty program. And worse a re-arming program. Even the most hard core supposed Hawks don't understand divide andconquer like the old days of warfare. Need to read up on Ghangis Khan not Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter.
storagemanager (and everyone else), remember the movie "The Village"? The little village was located on the edge of a wood which was inhabited by "those of whom we do not speak". Of course, in the film, scarcely any other topic was spoken of.
I like the phrase "intellectual pacifism", waterdragon. It's a perfect descriptor of the mindset of our elected representatives.
The War on Terror is just a delightful euphemism, as was "those of whom we do not speak". Anyway, I'm just weighing in with my two cents' worth of agreement that we will never defeat a foe, if our government and our allies are too cowardly to name said foe.
Not naming them/it will not make Islam go away. It's only going to bring the war to our streets.
Hugh~
As always your words are the most wise of all. You are an oracle in a world of the unaware and unwise.
Fan-of-Hugh
Israel is a very small country - one single nuke and it's essentialy all over dispite thier formitable arcenal - Unless this Iran appeasment and Iraq spinning out wheels stops they are done for. The anti-semitic Europeans will be pleased but they next. Europe, and france with 200 ICBMs, will be an islamic state in 20-30 years due to demographics. Then we're next.
It's now or never I feel.
I want to shake these "intellectual pacifists" and yell:
Listen! And understand! That Islam is out there. It can't be bargained with! It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!
- Borrowed form Terminator
My father died of Cancer, he was a John Wayne type who didnt want to burden his family so he kept it secret....Only a month before his death did we find out....We felt robbed, cheated of the time to prepare to make plans.To make peace with the fact he was leaving...When the American people find out the name of the enemy they will feel cheated too.Robbed of the time to prepare to get ready.After all they were told Islam is peace,Noble and it was hijacked.Maybe I am wrong...But I feel this is a crime!
Hugh, I couldn't agree more.
My relief from the news was quickly tempered by simular questions to those you expose.
Without the diminishing the great skill of the American fighting forces, by far superior to any Islamic foe, I can't help but wonder where the information of his location came from. The news report indicates an informant within Zarqawi's ranks turned him in for money. Some how I can't believe that these ideological and Islamic fanatics would be swayed by money.
I can't help but wonder if Zarqawi's death will bring some kind of hudna ???? between Shia's and Sunni's. Only time will tell.
I can't help but wonder if his death will bring allow Iran to exert more control over events in Iraq.
A careful observer can't help but see the complex power struggles within the various flavors of Jihad, Sunni (al-Qaeda) and Shia (Iran) on the one hand pushing for direct attack on the West and the forces of Da'wa (Saudi) pushing for slow demographic invasion, one ready to slowly impose dihimmitude, the other to do it at the point of the sword.
What will the death of this barbarian do to the above power struggle, will al-Qaeda now focus more energy on taking out the Saudi oil refineries, with tacit approval from the soon to be nuclear armed Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
We have precious little time to dwell and savior our battlefield fortunes when the enemies of global civilization are remaking themselves for a new assault as we speak!
It would serve us well to understand the links and weaknesses of those who would destroy our way of life.
Ps. Foehammer, your blog is great!
I see at today's military briefing that our beloved national press is hot on the trail of a new controversy and scandal.
Apparently Zarqawi was just barely alive when U.S. and Iraqi troops arrived on the scene. Here's basically how the question and answer session went:
Reporter #1: WAS HE IN ANY DISCOMFORT?? (the poor thing)
Military Spokesman: Yes, he was on the verge of death.
Reporter #2: DID HE TRY TO SAY ANTHING??
Military Spokesman: Yes, he mumbled before dying.
Reporter #2 follow-up: WHAT DID HE SAY?? WHO HEARD HIM?? EXACTLY HOW MANY WORDS WERE SAID?? IS THERE VIDEO?? WAS A RECORDING MADE?? IF NOT, WHY NOT??
Military Spokesman: It wasn't understandable and it didn't last long.
Reporter #3: DID THE AMERICAN TROOPS ON THE SCENE JUST LET HIM DIE??? (the poor thing)
Military Spokesman: He was barely alive and died shortly thereafter.
Reporter #4: EXACTLY HOW LONG WAS HE ALIVE?? HOW MANY MINUTES AND SECONDS??
Military Spokesman: I don't know exactly; It wasn't long.
Reporter #5: WAS LOVING MEDICAL CARE IMMEDIATELY ADMINISTERED?? IF NOT, WHY NOT??
Military Spokesman: Not to my knowledge.
Reporter #5 follow-up: WHY WASN'T HE GIVEN MOUTH-TO-MOUTH RESUSCITATION?!
Military Spokesman: Good Bye.
Lulu:
It seems that many of us here are reflections of our wise grandparents -- I am told that I've inherited many of the best traits (along with some not so good) of my grandfather and grandmother on my father's side , and I still on some days half-jokingly bring up one of the favorite sayings from my grandpa: "If it doesn't work right, hit it harder."
As you can tell, I love simple, workable, applicable and beautifully blue-collar philosophy the best. :D
--
El Cid:
Thanks! Glad to know someone is actually reading it. LOL.
I can't help but wonder where the information of his location came from.
Did you happen to notice yesterday that the US educated (Yale) King of Trans-Jordan, who has always appeared in photos in either Western business or traditional Arab attire, is suddenly sporting an Army General's uniform?
"We need the hawks. And after the hawks have done their jobs, the vultures and crows to clean up. Then the doves are welcome."
Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 9, 2006 08:53 AM
A classic.
Foehammer, I do read it, my time online is limited but your site is among my top ten.
I listen to Savage, because he is great live. I download Michelle Malkin's Hotair videocast. Very well done, she has so much wit and spunk. I read hexagonews for news in France. There are many many great blogs out there each with their own perspective, and each making an important contribution as the threat of Jihad reaches all of the worlds cultures.
Blog on my brother!
The internat is a great weapon!
------
arjun.sevak, my Hindu friends have long debunked the Gandhi myth.
My co-worker went on a trip to Indian and he was very successful spreading the word to to his friends and relatives about the Islamic threat. Bravo India!
Now if can only take down the statue of Ghandi in Union Square, after 911 I saw sign posted around it say " violence is not the answer we must forgive and understand"/
I all for the time of the lamb but first we must get ride of the wolves.
alexon
Was that for real? I'm not asking for a link or anything, but I can't believe the Left Wing has gone that far. I pray you misread that.
If it's true, maybe it's time to start bombing the NYTimes or WaPo. I put up with this kind of shiite in Viet Nam, and I really feel for the troops that have to listen to this PC bullshiite.
The average man and woman in the streets knows who the enemy is. What they are not aware of is the level of danger that faces the West, and the need to take immediate action. The demographic threat inherent in open immigration is probably more serious than a terrorist strike. Only the leadership, global business interests and the intellectuals are afraid to give the enemy it's name.
El Cid,
Agree with you. All for the time of the lamb but first we take care of the wolves.
Foehammer said
Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.”
Qur'an 7:97 "Did the people of the towns feel secure against the coming of Our wrath by night while they were asleep? Or else did they feel secure against its coming in broad daylight while they played about (carefree)? Did they then feel secure against the Plan of Allah? But no one can feel secure from the Plan of Allah, except those (doomed) to ruin!"
As we are all too aware, leaving us alone to live in peace is not an option they are willing to offer. Their Allah would never allow it. As long as there is Islam, there can be no peace.
As long as there is Islam, there can be no peace......Well said.
"not to kill Zarqawi," explained that what he had really wished to do was to sit down with Zarqawi, and talk to him, man to man, and reason with him, and see his point of view, and have him see his, Michael Berg's, point of view. That is how conflicts are resolved, you see, in Michael Berg's world
I wonder if that idea to "talk things out" occurred to the people whose heads were slowly sawed off by Zarqawi.
Perhaps, as they were drowning in their own blood as he slit their throats the first time through, Zarqawi didn't understand because he of the girggling sound they made.
Poor Zarqawi, he was the victim you see; and is so misunderstood.
It was the fault of those people (remember their names?) because as they were dying slowly and painfully at his hands, they did not try to reach him on an emotional level.
Gad!
I think it's great news that he suffered and knew he was dying. I'll tell you what his last words were:
"Forgive me."
Death humbles us all.
I rather doubt those were his last words. More likely it was... "oh sh..t!"
"I'll tell you what his [Zarqawi's] last words were:
'Forgive me.
Death humbles us all."
-- from a posting above
One hopes that was meant as a joke.
Hugh
On your original comments, I disagree somewhat with the worrying part. With Zarqawi (and hopefully some time Osama and Zawahiri) out of the picture, but the violence not stopping, it will force people to take another look. Particularly since the destruction of al-Qaeda isn't stopping terror. For instance, the destruction of the Branch Davidian compound and David Koresh ended that cult. However, when the same results don't play out here, it will force analysis.
Note that future terrorists - al Qaeda or not - will always associate their acts with Islamic scriptures. When it keeps mushrooming everywhere, al Qaeda as an explaination will simply be untenable. And so will the sleeper-cells theory. There aren't people who decide to join al Qaeda at random. There are people (usually Muslims, but who may also be converts to Islam like Lindh, Radillo, Chand, Hicks, Reid) who decide to act out the call to Jihad made to them by the Quran, Hadith, Sira, Tafseer and verbalized by their Imams. Once all this activity can no longer be attributed to al Qaeda, people will be forced to look for that "root cause".
The only part of the worrying where I agree is that it may take another major attack to galvanize us again - the emotional and political capital of 9/11 has been totally burnt by this lost opportunity of finding out about Islam.
Why Hugh? I don't think this guy was that tough. It's easy to kill, dying is not so easy. He just found that out. I think he died scared, like everybody else.
storagemanager,
So sorry for your loss.My dad lived with cancer for over a year.
I think this mass murderer's last words were more along the lines of "Dang! I knew I should have learned how to use those American assault weapons! Bleagh!"
Would you say the same about everyone? That in the face of Death, all are equally chastened, frightened, sinners about to be in the hands of an angry god? How would one know? Everyone dies, and deathbed behaviors vary, and who knows the thoughts of others while those others are dying?
If by the phrase "death humbles us all" you mean to suggest that those who know they are about to die become conscious of the Awfulness (Awefulness) of what they are about to face, as they are ferried over that river, crossing into that au-dela or aldila, and feel the need to request forgiveneess, that suggests a certain kind of sensibility foreign to Al-Zarqawi, unless you wish to suggest that Death Makes the Whole World Kin. Not to me it doesn't, any more than life does. If you mean that the "forgive me" is being addressed to all those whom Al-Zarqawi damaged, that is implausible. If you mean taht he was addressing not the Allah of his own belief-system but an Allah who in his mind has magically metamorphosed into the Christian God, to whom a request for such forgiveness may be addressed, and you think Zarqawi surely used his last breath to ask for that forgiveness, if not to a well-defined God then at least To Whom It May Concern, that may be pleasing and comforting thought.
But is it true? Is it even verisimilar? Did Hitler say that kind of thing before shooting himself? Did Stalin, on his bed, mutter "Prosti, bozhe moj, prosti menya"? I doubt it, even if he had been a bank-robbing seminarian in his youth, before he un-got religion, and knew the drill.
I remain unconvinced.
"There are no atheists in a foxhole."
I'm not quite convinced by the distraction theme. It's certainly good to have the Mohammedans fighting each other, just because it generates more dead Mohammedans. But I'm not sure it will distract them sufficiently from the overall duty of Jihad. Palestinian factions have been fighting each other for many years, and that didn't stop them from bombing Jews.
Or am I making an error of 'scaling' in that comparison?
Arjun
This is something I have periodically been arguing for sometime now - Gandhi (not Ghandi, Waterdragon) was the most vile individual that India has ever been cursed with. He was the ultimate appeaser - supporting the Khilafat movement in 1919 (and only stopped when the Turks themselves overthrew the Ottoman sultan): in fact, India is the only country in the world that has this vestige of that campaign. During partition, he did what he could to prevent Hindus from slaughtering Muslims, while doing absolutely nothing to prevent the reverse. What's worse - following partition, he browbeat the Indian government to pay Pakistan Rs 550 million to compensate Pakistan for the cost of rehabilitating Muslim refugees fleeing to Pakistan - without factoring in what it cost India to do the same for Hindus and Sikhs. Had Godse not acted, Kashmir, Hyderabad and Junagadh would all be a part of Pakistan, and several million more Infidels would have been slaughered. I don't support murder as a political solution, but this is the reality of what would have happened had Gandhi survived.
I cringe when I hear any discussion on Hinduism drift into one on Gandhi. Hinduism existed for something like 3 millenia, and Gandhi only emerged in the 20th century. What on earth were our forebears practicing then? If one looks at pre-Islamic Hinduism (not the one that Hindus were forced to contrive in order to raise their shields against Islam), one would see several nations that were tolerant, political and religious pluralism (Hindus and Buddhists did have competing vying of influence in several courts of varous kingdoms, and even families were divided on religious lines e.g. Harshavardhan was Shaivite, while his brother Rajyavardhan was Buddhist). Practices like Sati were rare in pre-Islamic India - one won't find it anywhere in the Ramayana or the Mahabharata. Hindus were non-violent when possible, but violent when necessary - just what any sane nation needs to be. Gandhi had zippity-doo-dah to do with Hinduism being what it ever was, or even what it is today.
I am gratified to see that most people here have no illusions about what Gandhi was. His clan is just as bad - you had Arun Gandhi demonstrate recently in Israel in support of Fatah/Hamas. I know that the Israelis couldn't have taken him out without all the negetive publicity amongst Gandhiphiles in India, but it's something I regret anyway.
Also don't trust wikipedia. Enough has been said about that platform of intellectual virus on this site. It's at best a reference to get one started, but from there on, one needs to first research which sources are reputable, and then research those sources themselves.
Have you ever seen the original “War of the Worlds” movie starring Gene Barry done in the 50’s? Anyone remember the scene when the minister holding a Bible tries to reason with the Martian and the Martian summarily vaporizes him? That’s who Michael Berg reminds me of. He typifies those who completely fail to comprehend the motives that drive the Jihadists. The Jihadists, like Zarqawi, know exactly what they are doing and why. They can’t be reasoned with to abandon their beliefs by naive group conflict resolution sessions. True evil does exist in this world. Too bad that Berg and his fellow travelers think it is Western Civilization and not Islamic Jihad.
When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
“ Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD
Hugh, we all have a universal fear of death, especially when we are not controlling it, as Hitler was able to with his pistol. Knowing we are about to die in a few moments, and not being able to do anything about it, is terror. That this man knew terror before he died, is what I believe. These islamic hotheads are not the battle-hardened supermen they would have you believe. They are just people consumed by hate and their own false bravado. But hate doesn't make one impervious to fear of death, or the afterlife.
Muslims are like that. They love to shout, chant, and fire guns into the air, but in battle, they are conrolled by their fear and they flee like the pissants they are. They make lousy soldiers. Contrary to islamic propaganda, they do not want to die. All they want to do is kill. These people break quickly under interrogation or even the "torture" of panties on their heads. General Pershing was able to quell islamic jihad simply by threatening to bury their dead with pig entrails. What makes us laugh, makes them scream in horror.
Now understand, that if I say he asked for forgiveness for his crimes, that is not to imply that he had a good conscience. I think you interpreted it as that. He obviously had a bad conscience. He knew what he was doing was wrong. If he had no conscience at all, that would mean, like an animal, or a crazy person in a nut house, he had no moral comprehension of what he was doing. But he did know. And he did it anyway. That is the definition of evil. The devil doesn't think he's innocent.
People without a conscience, don't know they are doing anything fundementally wrong. He, conversely, appreciated the evil inherent in his acts, and was proud of them. Those are the worst kind of people. But the downside for guys like that, is that having a bad conscience, having any conscience, makes you vulnerable to fear of devine retribution. And as I beleive that these islamic jihadists are motivated more by hatred of us, than obedience to any god, they are never too sure of where they will end up.
Zarqawi's final words were most likely "Alahu Akbar." He was a true believer.
"The only part of the worrying where I agree is that it may take another major attack to galvanize us again "
We haven't been truly galvanized yet. It looks like it will take several more major attacks, on various major cities around the Western world, before our shit gets galvanized.
"It's certainly good to have the Mohammedans fighting each other, just because it generates more dead Mohammedans. But I'm not sure it will distract them sufficiently from the overall duty of Jihad. Palestinian factions have been fighting each other for many years"
More than that: Muslims have been fighting each other for centuries, since a few years after Mohammed died. Still, it's better -- if only incrementally so -- to encourage that inveterately internecine instability at the heart of Islam than to discourage it. Every little bit counts.
"Anyone remember the scene when the minister holding a Bible tries to reason with the Martian and the Martian summarily vaporizes him?"
Better yet, remember the Martians in Tim Burton's Mars Attacks! (1996) who walked nimbly around with ray guns barking out "We come in peace!" and shooting Earthlings dead.
Better yet, remember the Martians in Tim Burton's Mars Attacks! (1996) who walked nimbly around with ray guns barking out "We come in peace!" and shooting Earthlings dead.
You could have the solution to islam right there, Television. Perhaps all we need to do to destroy islam, and their advance shock troops in our nations, is to broadcast bad country music over loudspeakers until they collapse and die.
That could just be all it takes to makes their heads explode. It almost works on me. Just think what country music would do to THEM?
Zarqawi's final words were actually "Is it hot in here, or is it just me?"
I'm glad that he knew he was dying, knew that the infidels had beaten him, he lost. There is no way that he had a change of heart, or showed any remorse for having spent his life killing for Allah. That is again making the assumption that "they are just like us", they have the same values as us "Thou shalt not kill" etc. Within his belief system, there was nothing to be remorseful about. Finding infidels wherever they are and beheading them is following the example of Mohammad (damn him to hell), the man that Allah said was the example for all men to follow for all time.
somethingaboutislam said
I think the opposite is true. We all have to face death, that's just the way the world was made. Although we don't know how we'll react until the time comes, one can only hope to face it honorably and with dignity.
But to do the things that Zarqawi did, that seems the most difficult thing in the world to me. To go to so much effort to make so many people suffer, to intentionally cause the death of other people, that would be incomprehensibly difficult for me, and I think to others of a Judeo-Christian background. It would go against every fiber in my being.
Of course I'm not talking about situations of self-defense. I would not hesitate for a millisecond if I were in Berg Jr.'s position and somehow wrestled the knife away from Zarqawi. Nor should our military hesitate for a millisecond, and they don't, and they didn't.
It's fitting that he had those last few moments to comprehend that he was defeated. If he felt just a fraction of the horrible pain he inflicted on so many others, all the better, but it's nothing compared to what's in store for him next.
Zarqawi's last mumble makes for interesting speculation but I'm sure it was no death bed contrition. Probably something like "Allahu Akbar" as Caroline suggests, the ever obedient slave to his monstrous god right to the bitter end.
"Better yet, remember the Martians in Tim Burton's Mars Attacks! (1996) who walked nimbly around with ray guns barking out "We come in peace!" and shooting Earthlings dead."
Sounds like the history of Islam in a nutshell.
But to do the things that Zarqawi did, that seems the most difficult thing in the world to me. To go to so much effort to make so many people suffer, to intentionally cause the death of other people, that would be incomprehensibly difficult for me, and I think to others of a Judeo-Christian background. It would go against every fiber in my being.
Yes, but you are not an evil person. For an evil person, killing is easy. But dying is still difficult, especially when it is imposed by painful trauma. Ideology is a higher function of the brain. It usually works well only in the absense of fear which is controlled by the amygdala, the primitive part of the brain which becomes dominant at the time of facing your own death.
For all of their cries of jihad, no one escapes the fear of the devil at that last moment. It is said, that before everyman dies, he sees the devil. Maybe Zarqawi saw exactly that. And the devil came for him. I'm willing to bet that his last words were not a cry for more jihad.
Would you say the same about everyone? That in the face of Death, all are equally chastened, frightened, sinners about to be in the hands of an angry god?
Not everyone is frieghtened.
How would one know?
We all find out soon enough.
I remain unconvinced
So shall you remain; and when it is time there will be no doubt for you -- in that instant, perhaps not sooner, you shall know!
Skald,
Such defeatism breeds more defeatism. I honestly believe there is hope once the West breathes some more smelling salts in the form of the inevitable Islamic atrocities to come. Once people take to heart that Islamic terror is not a misunderstanding and not going away, more will join the fight to stop it.
I also think there's residual exhaustion from two World Wars plus the struggle against Communism. The West is exhausted and Islam is ascendant... for now. All the West needs is for a consensus to build that Islam, in its most aggressive, expansionist mode, MUST be stopped. We certainly have the means to do it, all we need is the will. I know it looks bad today, but things change. It's going to be difficult, for sure, but we can do it. All we need is the will.
I have always wanted to know this Hugh,
when Zarqawi goes up to his pimps paradise and they issue him his 72 virgins does he have to blow them up by mouth or do they issue him a foot pump ?
Holger, The Washington Post surprizingly had a Politically Incorrect and funny (IMHO) cartoon by Tom Toles of Zarqawi rising up to the other-world asking "Where are my 72 virgins to behead"
see:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles_main.html
skald said
I'm not sure in which country you live. In the U.S., I think both parties qualify as "jihad enablers and jihad supporters". In case you are referring to yesterdays' article, today I read the statements of John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Al Gore, and many other true leaders of the Democratic Party, and every single one of them said that Zarqawi was an evil man who deserved to die. That's not exactly headline making news, but for the Washington Times and JihadWatch to take the statements of Pete Stark (?!) and Dennis Kucinich (who merely said that we should withdraw from Iraq) and come up with "Democrats Call Zarqawi Killing a Stunt" is yellow journalism, and a misrepresentation of the facts.
Would it be appropriate to take Pat Robertson's statement that the U.S. should kill Hugo Chavez, and come up with a headline "Republicans Vow to Assassinate World Leaders"?
This marks the first time I was disappointed in the writings of JW/DW.
Truly great post, Hugh. You do honor to Nick Berg's memory by letting it be instructive for the rest of us and thereby saving lives. Kidush Hashem.
?Dgaboutislam writes:
"You could have the solution to islam right there, Television. Perhaps all we need to do to destroy islam, and their advance shock troops in our nations, is to broadcast bad country music over loudspeakers until they collapse and die."
That idea is not very far from one advanced by a fellow named Jim Wodhill, who advocates the deployment of "Cultural WMDs" against Islam. You might enjoy reading this discussion of his proposal. My overall impression of the Islamic world is that such attempted poisoning would be ineffective, as it appears there are few depravities which cannot be justified in some way via Islamic teaching. The fact that some of the 9/11 hijackers drank and went to a place for lap-dancing didn't prevent them from carrying out their horrible 'mission', after all.
Alexon: "...the ever obedient slave to his monstrous god right to the bitter end."
No doubt about it. And eloquently put if I might add.
Manifesto of the Fed-Up People:
We will give you (mainstream Western media and governments) one year from today, June 9, 2006, to identify the enemy properly, rationally, and clearly without your accustomed PC paradigm. If after one year, on June 10, 2007, you have not woken up, we will join right-wing fascists and parties like the BNP because they are the only ones who can take care of the enemy, Islam.
You have one year.
it appears there are few depravities which cannot be justified in some way via Islamic teaching.
For sure, they would recoil at pork. As far as country music, I don't think that country music is a depravity. It's hokey to listen to, but not morally repugnant enough to drive them away. The idea was the sound of Patsy Cline singing Crazy could drive them crazy. Country music is so darn uniquely American, they might not be able to stand it.
I can just see thousands of burka-clad muslims rolling on the ground in agony to the soothing strains of Gene Autry.
Television, I like your idea, but you miss the very point. Unless the governments admit the problem to the masses, the masses will have no reason to flock to the right wing parties. That is why they keep the lid on the problem. They know that if the people ever realized the truth, the BNP, for example, would explode. That's the whole reason for denying there is a problem.
This is why the only thing we can do to hope to wake up the population is to hope that the authorities are not able to thwart every major attack. Major attacks cause cracks to form in the PC shield. It is not the fast jihad, terror attacks, that we have to worry about. It is the slow jihad, the demographic jihad, that will get us in the end. The fast jihad actually works against them and plays into our hands. We need more fast jihad and less incidents where the police foil the attack before it happens. That does us absolutely no good.
Hugh
Gold Star for you today!!
Wonder if this is why Bush keeps saying this is going to be a Long war??
Maybe he really does get it One can only hope and look for the little key words?
What is it they say take one step forward and 2 steps back all the while moving forward?
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
The BNP and like-minded groups would cure the jihadist problem like the electric chair could be said to cure cancer.
Many undesirable side effects.
The BNP and like-minded groups would cure the jihadist problem like the electric chair could be said to cure cancer.
Using the BNP to cure islam is like using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Chemo kills healthy cells too, it makes you sick, makes your hair fall out, but you know what? It kills the cancer which is what it is all about. And you use chemo when nothing else will touch the problem. You bring in the big guns. And when the cancer is cured, you can vote out BNP, after you have cynically used them for your purposes. Or maybe, just maybe, you might find that they also do a good job at other things too.
Got cancer, get chemo. Got a cavity, see a dentist. Right now we got a terminal illness, a cancer called islam. Not only should we perform chemo, we should be thankful that such therapy exists at all.
I don't want to further derail the thread-- I know the BNP is an emotional issue for many, so I'll say this and then agree to disagree.
Germans probably thought they could vote the Nazis out of power once they had their fill-- they voted them in, after all. Many in the Mideast seem to have backed Islamists for similar reasons: One hears about the Taliban in Afghanistan and similar militias in Somalia bringing "stability," for example.
Long-term and far-reaching consequences for short-term gratification. That's my take on it.
Again, we see the same old PC mentality that the measures to defeat the enemy are to be feared more than the enemy itself. In Canada, no such party represents my views. We have center left, left, and far left. So I don't vote. We have no such party to defeat the enemy. Even the police are dhimmified.
I would start my own party, except it would not be recognized as legit. I couldn't get on the ballot. Just as in Sweden, no right wing parties are allowed. But we have the green party and other far lefties.
What would I do?
1. Deport all muslims.
2. Prohibit all muslim immigration
Problem solved.
Oh, and I would make the trains run on time. Clean up the litter, and put murderers away for life without parole. And I would mandate ethanol for all cars. You know, the diabolical fascist in me.
Pure horsemanure or is that bullShi'ite?
I'm an atheist and have, many times been in worse spots than a foxhole, I've been through a lot, and nothing I've been in inspired me to accept Pascal's Wager.
Apparently believers have more in common than different, such utterances as yours could be, and in fact, are made by Muslims, who are also smugly self assured (or are they really) in the truthfulness of their beliefs.
"Germans probably thought they could vote the Nazis out of power once they had their fill-- they voted them in, after all. Many in the Mideast seem to have backed Islamists for similar reasons: One hears about the Taliban in Afghanistan and similar militias in Somalia bringing "stability," for example."
The only problem with this logic: we are not 1930s Germans seeking a "cure" to the problem of Jews, and we are not Muslims seeking a "cure" to a world without Sharia; so your analogy fails. We have a rational, humane, righteous cause, and our media, academics and politicians -- along with a giant chunk of our fellow people -- are failing our worthy cause.
Television writes: "We have a rational, humane, righteous cause, and our media, academics and politicians -- along with a giant chunk of our fellow people -- are failing our worthy cause."
Very true. Except that I would add that the media, academia, and politicians (plus the corporatists who pull their strings) are actually doing something far, far worse than merely failing our worthy cause: They are openly siding with the enemy! Once upon a time, such behavior was referred to as ...... treason.
Follwing Bethold Brecht's advice to party rulers in the wake of the 1953 uprising in East Germany:
"The solution
After the uprising of 17 June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the People
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?"
That's the beauty of it all, like a mafia don who whacks his brother in law, goes to confession does penance and receives communion... a Muslim who dies a Shaheed is immediately forgiven their sins..that's their belief.
They get a double benefit, by engaging in that which is haram prior to their suicide act, they get a foretaste of what awaits them in Jennah.
Which makes me wonder, considering all of the god bother I see and hear, is there really any such thing as intelligent life on earth?
Posted by: Zebo at June 9, 2006 08:32 AM
The death of this moster is bigger than you think and the Back slapping as you put is not going on?
But what is going on is stratigiey to keep things flowing this is Big for Iraq because this monster was cutting off Iraqis heads and the Jordansis helped this is good because if you look at the land and the oil flow to Europe how will it flow??
And we know that Iran was helping this monster?
Lets try to think out of the box?
and move forward this has 3 country's working together and all 3 will profet from this monsters death?
And things which Europe need at this time will still flow so the monsters supporters[iran] will not profet their monster is dead??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
you are thinking in tactis not startigy this is why you have sargents and genrals
We just took out one of their top Genrals it would have been like taking out Cornwall very early in the Game get it??
Bush is putting a lot of hype into this hit to up the Republican Party in the polls. In other words playing partisan politics with the lives of the American public. This hit is also just what the Iranians and shiites in general wanted.
As for Jimmy Carter, his efforts to get Egypt to recognise the state of Israel divided the Arab world. Egypt for years was scorned by other muslim nations for "selling out" at Camp David. Carter actually understood the roll of religion in politics better than most Presidents before or after him.
It is the present Bush Boy who is setting us up for defeat with his Iranian agenda. First he knocks out an alternative roll model for jihad in the Taliban of Afghanistan, then he knocks out the thorn in Irans side Saddam Huessian, now he takes out Zarqawi the bane of shiites who was waging a jihad against them. And look how he is going soft of Iran's nuke program. Just as he folded to the North Koreans.
As for the terminally niaeve, that is a tennet of Christianity. To turn the other cheek, commanded by Jesus [ God in the flesh ]. One cannot claim to defend christianity and " christian civilization " all the while scorning and ridiculing a core tennet of that religion.
----Nossy
Re: Nossy's post above
Critics say: "Nossy's Flimsy!" "Nossy's sudsy!" and "Nossy's mossy". In short, your thougts are dudsy, Nossy.