Islamic Tolerance Alert from "moderate" Malaysia. "Malaysia group urges Muslims to stop joint celebrations," from AP, with thanks to Mathew:
An influential group of Islamic clerics has urged Malaysian Muslims not to join religious festivities of other faiths, infuriating moderate Muslims who called it a perversion of the country's multiculturalism.The Ulama Conference during its annual gathering of top ulamas, or clerics, on Tuesday issued 22 resolutions including one saying that the practice of joint celebration of religious holidays must stop because it resulted in Muslims celebrating other faiths....
The clerics' view is a reflection of the growing Islamization of Malaysia, which prides itself on its image as a moderate and progressive Islamic nation where the majority Malay Muslims live in harmony with minority Chinese and Indians.
The Ulama Conference was pointing to a typically Malaysian celebration called Kongsi Raya, which refers to joint celebration of the Chinese New Year and the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr.
"Kongsi Raya" is a play on the greetings used by the two communities during the two holidays: "Gong Xi Fatt Cai" and "Hari Raya Aidil Fitri." Kongsi in Malay also means "share."
Since 1996, the two holidays have occurred within days of each other, providing Malays and Chinese an occasion to hold joint celebrations.
Harussani Zakaria, the working committee chairman of the Ulama Conference 2006, told The Associated Press that religious celebrations were not the place to foster unity.
The National Day -- when Malaysians commemorate independence from British rule-- was a more suitable time to promote integration and harmony, he said.
"You can invite Muslims to your house for dinner during Christmas or Chinese New Year without them having to celebrate the festival itself," Harussani added. "But nationalizing it, having Muslims celebrate it, that is wrong."
The Ulama Conference advises the Muslim kings of nine Malaysian states, who are titular heads, on religious matters. The conference has the authority to recommend to the kings edicts or "fatwa," which believers are bound by.
Harussani refused to say if the conference will pass a fatwa on joint celebrations, saying Islam already forbids it.
Why would vastly superior muslims, who follow the teachings of the one true prophet and who worship the #1 god, ever deign to attend anything celebrating a lesser god?
The clowns are at their best again.
Earlier on, they wanted any other religious celebrations [date] postponed when the muslim celebrations are taking place.
Meaning to say, Deepavalli & gong xi fat-chai should be postponed or not celebrated when the date collides with any muslim celebration.
The PM said this was not going to work & took off the topic.
Now this.
Whats wrong in celebrating? We have been celebrating for the past 100 years before these clerics were in power & we are better off without them. People before lived in peace & loved their neighbours.
People before are predominantly not muslims & they welcome religious festivals very well. My grand dad told stories on how the malays helped the indians built temples & how the indians helped the malays built small mosques & they both celebrated at ech festivals.
Those where the days where malay women where not clad in burqas & head scarves. Those were the days when they never discussed religious matters with others & everyone kept it with themselves.
Now they look like Arab wannaabes profiling the wahabism concept. They act like an Arab & dress like one. Having a goatee & wearing arab clothes in the hot climate is holy for them.
I think they have just been slaves to the arab. The malay culture is lost.
Truely. Deeply ashamed of Malaysia.
Why would a member of a totally violent ideology who follow the teachings of a murdering thieving pedophile who worship a moon God be directed not to attend other religious celebrations? There's going to be ANOTHER attack.
"Now they look like Arab wannaabes profiling the wahabism concept. They act like an Arab & dress like one. Having a goatee & wearing arab clothes in the hot climate is holy for them.
I think they have just been slaves to the arab. The malay culture is lost."
-- from a posting above, likely from someone in, or from, Malaysia
The justified resentment and fury expressed above at the way Islam is a vehicle for Arab supremacism, in which non-Muslim Arabs, no matter where they live, are encouraged to take Arab names, to learn Arabic, to mimic in every way the behavior of Muhammad and his Companions in seventh-century Arabia, even to boast (those "Sayeeds" all over Pakistan) of a mythical descent from Muhammad -- in short, for non-Arab Muslims to play the sedulous ape to the Arabs -- is a theme that needs to be emphasized, in appealing to non-Arab Muslims to recognize Islam for what it is.
If the Pentagon and State Department had people in positions of power who recognized the importance of these matters, they would certainly by now have been reprinting, at government expense, and handy pocket editions in many languages (including Malay and Urdu and Farsi) such books as Anwar Shaikh's "Islam--The Arab Religion" and Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not a Muslim" and Ali Sina's forthcoming work, all so that they might be easily obtained, carried around, and read -- just as anti-Soviet works, from Bibles in Russian, to "Invitation to a Beheading," were published in editions for tourists to take back into the Soviet Union.
This is one of those particular issues where I'm going to pipe up and say big deal.
I don't see a difference between most religions. Judaism forbids by law the celebration of other religion's holidays.
I cannot speak for Christians but I would not understand how many adherant Christians (excluding the many that now view Israel as their "brothers", etc. - mostly Evangelicals) would find a justification to celebrate a Jewish or Muslim holiday, even if Islam was viewed as a "religion of peace" by such people.
Hi Hugh, Yes, Im from malaysia staying in malaysia.
Like many others we strive to make this country a moderate, multicultural country as per the independence & multicultural agreement.
Immediatelly after the independence, the rule of any non-muslim to marry a muslim MUST convert & have a arab name.
But unfortunately. while the chinese & indians fulfil the agreement, the malay ruling party are not doing their part, they are seggregating between muslims & non muslims. We see this everyday from shopping centers, markets, schools, & in the goverment sector.
Even our National ID as Race & Religion profilation. Expect to be treated differently if your race or religion is not malay or islam.
Back in the 70s, they claimed that they decended from the North Indian heritrage & everyone was encourage to follow them.
In the 80s. they started to follow the arabs. And there we go, downhill from then.
The first malay woman that I saw wearing a black burqa was in 1994 and she was the talk of the community of being an arab.
Now, I could easily see at least 5 everyday in the city center. *these are not arabs*
Whats not told was the number of Malay girls/ladies that that were raped by Arab tourist is very high. The local girls are fooled with the promise to marry them. Its highly unlikely they are every caught & if they are, they would arrange a contract marriage for 1 or 2 years or divorce them minutes after the 'nikah'.
The question is, they muslim clerics have to choose between the 2 options, American/Western lifestyle or the Arab lifestyle. I know that they would choose the Western but unfortunately, its not islamic.
shy guy:
How do you expect to live in a muticultural country without celebrating each others celebration? & Why?
I Do it all the time, All the celebrations. Why Because I have friends from all religions & races. I treat them like my family & they do the same. Thats what we want to become, a big family.
However, these clerics have another agenda, If muslims & non muslims are close like a family, their idea of Islamic conquest in Malaysia will be difficult. So they have to seggregate the non muslims & make the muslims hate the non muslims.
Every educated muslim know this fact.
Even wonder why a Muslim cant greet a non muslim Peace to you?
Its because, non muslims should be in peace.
Hence, Islam is a Religion of Peace to Muslims & War to Indfedels.
funny that these goons would miss out on such a key opportunity to engage in Dawa.
I now live in Israel but I have been born and raised in the US.
There, I have always had a multitude of friends, neighbors, acquaintences, coworkers and professional, that were not of my faith, with whom I had a happy and excellent rapport with.
What makes you think that the definition of "multicultural" is to force your religious beliefs on others who disagree? How about multiculturalism meaning the abidement by the laws of one's country and the tolerance and support for all others who are similarly tolerant?
I have never had any of my numerous non-Jewish acquaintances celebrate a Jewish holiday with me. What for? It's irrelevant to them and for many it contradicts their religion's teachings.
I believe that family is family and friends are friends and they are not one and that same.
But I applaud your doings, as you seem to feel that they do not contradict any religious restrictions you might/should/could have, if any.
Don't worry. On the nature of the beast that is Islam, you and I are in full agreement.
My point here was that this particular issue of not celebrating other religion's holidays is far from unique to Islam. That's all.
Who would want to celebrate in muslim holidays? In ramadan you can't eat or drink during the day (what fun is that?) but you can after dark. Sorry, I'm usually in bed at dark and don't eat before going to bed anyway.
Of course there's the blood letting one (I don't remember what that one is called). Seriously, how crazy is THAT?
At least with our holidays , there is food and drink happiness and maybe presents.
Our celebrations are more fun.
Dear ShyGuy:
"What makes you think that the definition of "multicultural" is to force your religious beliefs on others who disagree? How about multiculturalism meaning the abidement by the laws of one's country and the tolerance and support for all others who are similarly tolerant?"
I agree, However, celebrating togather is not about forcing. Eg, I celebrate Christmas with a decorated tree, playing christmas songs & carols & I am hindu. At night, we are all out visiting friends & when I was young, Il always get a present in christmas oversized present socks.
Theres nothing wrong with celebrating. We know our limits, what to do & what not to do. And by all means, If someone does not want to celebrate, no one forces them.
As I said, we try to be nice to other people, making them feel accepted & hoping they do the same.
Naturally, the goverment tries to force islamic belief in this system, thus erasing non muslim cultural heritage from this country systmatically.
Im not sure about jewish rule on against celebrating other religions, perhaps with the wars with islam. however, I have some jewish friends that celebrated christmas & deepavalli.
I understand your point as well, while not unique to Islam. but Why did these clerics change a custom that was practiced a long time ago? Why now? Islam was not the same before?
Im trying to stress that these clowns are trying to saperate us & create an athmosphere for a civil war.
Something to think about:
The reason for muslims to fast is to hate others that dont fast. Mohammad wanted his men to take back mecca but there was no fighting spirit. Mohammad then imposed the fasting & no alcohol rule. Muslims are to suffer & breed hatred on non muslims because it was against god's teachings to kill.
Just follow the chronological events & you will know the reasons behind the commands of mohammad.
The same concept was played over & over in Malaysia.
tjwork,
Agree with you. I had muslims and Christians as friends in school and college. I also had 2 Zoroastrian friends. (They called themselves Persians). And being a band of brothers, we naturally visited each other's homes on festival days. We celebrated Christmas Eve (still do), and all my friends, of all religions, came around to my home for Deepavali and we would all fire crackers together. At Holi, all of us dunked each others in pools filled with coloured water. And at Navroz, our Persian friends invited us all for lunch. I remember, the hall in my Persian friend's home, the long table, and his mother serving us traditional Persian cuisine. Over the years, the muslims who studied with us either dropped out of school, and the ones who finished college chose to drop all infidel friends. They started by not coming around at our festivals. We did used to go to their homes at eid, but we too, stopped going. They did it first.
Some of my friends have left my city, but some of us are still here. And festivals, like Deepavali and Christmas and Navroz, are the occasion of get together of our band. When we meet each other after a gap of 4 - 5 months. A festival comes around in this period. And then the good old gang, for a few days, is united again.
tjwork and arjun sevak,
When there is respect for each other, and tolerance of whatever faith we were all brought up in, celebrating together is incredible! Our friends' background, upbringing, higher/lower, status, or ulterior motives, never enters our heads.
Sad to say, only the muslim species differ.
I actually agree with Shy Guy here. There are two aspects to these religious festivals - one being religious, and the other being festival. Usually, the latter part is what gets celebrated by the non-adherent friends of the people involved. For instance, in Arjun's example above, celebrating Navroz doesn't imply embracing Ahura Mazda, or having a Christmas Tree doesn't imply embracing Jesus Christ the lord. Hence, for those who treat these religious festivals more as religious e.g. someone who sees Chrismas as commemorating the birth of Christ, or Diwali as commemorating Shri Rama's return to Ayodhya, rather than just Christmas trees and fireworks, it's neither inappropriate nor offensive to respectfully refrain from celebrating.
The part that is obnoxious, and therefore to be expected of Mohammedans, is obstructing others from celebrating their faiths just because they happen to occur at the same time, and therefore compete for attention.
Can't we start a festival where Muslims are forbidden to join in?
The Day of of the Ineffable Pork Rinds?
The Feast of the Wet Dogs and Topless Women?
Something.
Anything.
freetoBEfree: thanks :)
Infidel Pride & Arjun:
Thats what its all about, It does not take a christian to celebrate christmas, celebrating does not mean to prefess the religion. Its an act to acknoledge your friend's culture & be happy with him.
And this is what the clerics are against.
In a state (Kelantan). they banned the 'Wayang Kulit' where its a old theatere of stories narrated & acted by flat hand controlled puppets. They did it because it represents the Hindu traditions. Its totally un islamic.
And this is what general malaysians are against. The elder muslim community that lived in the cities later are also against this but their views are not taken account.
The people that built this country based it on a multi cultural & multi religion concept & its now being hijacked by the radical muslim clerics.
profitsbeard:
Know that these clowns are trying to divide us o start a war. I would not suggest that.
To all Muslims;
How does it feel to be an Arab slave?
Hey all,
The Chinese New Year is NOT a religious festival! And it's the only non-Muslim celebration in Malaysia that's celebrated together with the Muslim Eid (or Aidilfitri). The only justification for Malaysian Muslim hatred of Chinese New Year is a general distaste of anything related to the pig-eating Chinese.
Hi Vincent, I take it that you are a fellow Malaysian as well :)
I have to agree on that while many chinese (the Quan Yin worshippers) and not beef & pork eating people & so as many hindus.
I really have no idea how do they justify pork eating people are less noble or less clean while incest is common among muslims.
However, the trend shows that they hate everything not muslim or islamic. I could only say theres seriuosly something wrong with Islam.
The same thing happened during Eid & Depavalli (same week).
And remember the times they wanted to stop Thaipusam festivals as well? They coudnt but they stopped muslims from not participating (onlookers). They even took away the holiday.
Now as a backlash against the giant statue in Batu caves temple, they are all out to demolish temples in selangor.
tjwork,
More temple demolitions. These zombies cannot tolerate anything of the 'other' faiths.
Agree with you. Celebration does not mean to profess a faith. But we can have respects for others' faith, and rejoice with them. I think I was lucky to have such friends who stuck with each other through thick and thin, and always shared.
I actually agree with profitsbeard. As for your suggestion, too late for that - a war has been waged by Muslims from time immemorial. The idea of such a festival would be for us infidels to celebrate together, and not include our enemy in it. To an extent, some of us may already do this in our own festivals. Having one explicitly for the purpose stated above is a great idea.
P.S. As Hindus, paying obeisance to say, Christ, Ahura Mazda, Guru Nanak, et al wouldn't get us "excommunicated", since no such mechanism exists in Hinduism. However, I don't know whether Christians or Jews have the same liberty from their respective faiths. Either way, I believe whatever their faiths decree ought to be respected.